mga707
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:11 pm

B1168 wrote:
I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.


Don't have an answer for you, but it would be DAL (Love), not DFW.
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1933
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:26 pm

1. WN announced interisland service--4 daily roundtrips to HNL--not daily service to every city in California.

2. LIH flights will start before ITO; LIH was announced months ago.

3. Hilo does have hotels. 2 of them are pretty big, but its nothing compared to Kona and we like it that way.

4. AQ and HA have both served Lanai (LNY) and Molokai (MKK) with 732s and DC9s respectively. Usually as a triangle route (HNL-MKK-LNY-HNL; HNL-LNY-MKK-HNL), once a day in each direction (on AM and one PM) or what HA crews affectionately called "The Bounce" (HNL-MKK-LNY-OGG). AQ stopped 732 service after they bought Island Air. HA stopped serving MKK and LNY altogether after they got 717s and didn't return until 'Ohana started a few years ago.

5. Interisland traffic is probably about 50/50 on tourist vs locals. It's very time of day dependent. Morning and evenings will be mostly locals. Mid day will be mostly tourists. Hilo is probably 80%+ locals; definitely the highest in the state.

6. Hilo is awesome. My dad was born there a looooooong time ago. I go back many times each year and it may be my favorite place in the state. It has a lot more to offer than "rain."

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
panam330
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 4:28 pm

B1168 wrote:
That’s not what I mean...... my meaning is that destinations I.e.LIH with no DFW service can be an opportunity for WN.

AA flew DFW-LIH two winters ago with a 763. There’s a reason it hasn’t come back.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 6:26 pm

aloha73g wrote:
3. Hilo does have hotels. 2 of them are pretty big, but its nothing compared to Kona and we like it that way.


Exactly. Hilo has hotels. The way I’d put it is that Hilo doesn’t have resorts, but they do have the two big hotels and a bunch of smaller places. And one of them, the Naniloa, now operates as a Doubletree so it has the visibility and exposure of being in a large international chain.
 
B1168
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 6:47 pm

panam330 wrote:
B1168 wrote:
That’s not what I mean...... my meaning is that destinations I.e.LIH with no DFW service can be an opportunity for WN.

AA flew DFW-LIH two winters ago with a 763. There’s a reason it hasn’t come back.


Yes, that sounds like a lack of pax (for AA) , but 7M7 (should 737 MAX grounding cease) will be a lot smaller than 763 and have just enough range to reach LIH. My hope is that WN can take away some niches and diversify the market.
 
hoya
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 7:54 pm

B1168 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
B1168 wrote:
I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.


Huh? AA serves HNL and OGG multiple times per day year round and adds KOA in high season. Find another mid-continent airport with that much Hawaii service?


That’s not what I mean...... my meaning is that destinations I.e.LIH with no DFW service can be an opportunity for WN.


LIH's runway may be too short to support service that far inland. Per Wikipedia, it's shorter than OGG's runway, and flights out of OGG can be weight-restricted.

DEN is a mid-continent airport with service to all four islands, though UA's service to LIH and KOA is on 757-200s. HNL and OGG are 777s daily, less service than AA from DFW, but UA also serves OGG from ORD and HNL from all their other hubs east of the Rockies (IAH, IAD, EWR, ORD).

Re ITO, UA's service from LAX isn't even daily - I see it at 5x weekly this month. Doesn't seem that there is that much demand to the mainland to warrant service from WN.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
jplatts
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 8:57 pm

hoya wrote:
Re ITO, UA's service from LAX isn't even daily - I see it at 5x weekly this month. Doesn't seem that there is that much demand to the mainland to warrant service from WN.


WN might be able to offer 1-stop connections to ITO from contiguous U.S. destinations that don't have nonstop service to LAX on UA such as ABQ, DAL, MCI, PDX, STL, and TUS if WN adds nonstop service to the mainland from ITO.
 
panam330
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 9:35 pm

B1168 wrote:
panam330 wrote:
B1168 wrote:
That’s not what I mean...... my meaning is that destinations I.e.LIH with no DFW service can be an opportunity for WN.

AA flew DFW-LIH two winters ago with a 763. There’s a reason it hasn’t come back.


Yes, that sounds like a lack of pax (for AA) , but 7M7 (should 737 MAX grounding cease) will be a lot smaller than 763 and have just enough range to reach LIH. My hope is that WN can take away some niches and diversify the market.

Load factor wasn’t the issue.
The thought’s nice, really, but I truly don’t think we’ll see DAL-LIH nonstop scheduled service anytime soon, especially on an aircraft that small.
 
77H
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 9:51 pm

jplatts wrote:
hoya wrote:
Re ITO, UA's service from LAX isn't even daily - I see it at 5x weekly this month. Doesn't seem that there is that much demand to the mainland to warrant service from WN.


WN might be able to offer 1-stop connections to ITO from contiguous U.S. destinations that don't have nonstop service to LAX on UA such as ABQ, DAL, MCI, PDX, STL, and TUS if WN adds nonstop service to the mainland from ITO.


Again, let’s ask ourselves what the demand is from those second tier markets to a sleepy local town in Hawaii? Hilo is largely a blue collar town so limited demand outbound as well. No doubt WN is a great airline but it is not magical, it operates under that same economic principles as every other airline.
Not every market needs a full spread of nonstops.

77H
 
cxi727
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 10:15 pm

aloha73g wrote:
1. WN announced interisland service--4 daily roundtrips to HNL--not daily service to every city in California.


Source? Has WN specifically/publicly stated this regarding ITO service?
 
mga707
Posts: 161
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 10:20 pm

aloha73g wrote:
1. WN announced interisland service--4 daily roundtrips to HNL--not daily service to every city in California.

2. LIH flights will start before ITO; LIH was announced months ago.

3. Hilo does have hotels. 2 of them are pretty big, but its nothing compared to Kona and we like it that way.

4. AQ and HA have both served Lanai (LNY) and Molokai (MKK) with 732s and DC9s respectively. Usually as a triangle route (HNL-MKK-LNY-HNL; HNL-LNY-MKK-HNL), once a day in each direction (on AM and one PM) or what HA crews affectionately called "The Bounce" (HNL-MKK-LNY-OGG). AQ stopped 732 service after they bought Island Air. HA stopped serving MKK and LNY altogether after they got 717s and didn't return until 'Ohana started a few years ago.

5. Interisland traffic is probably about 50/50 on tourist vs locals. It's very time of day dependent. Morning and evenings will be mostly locals. Mid day will be mostly tourists. Hilo is probably 80%+ locals; definitely the highest in the state.

6. Hilo is awesome. My dad was born there a looooooong time ago. I go back many times each year and it may be my favorite place in the state. It has a lot more to offer than "rain."

-Aloha!


Thank you (mahalo) for your informative post. Point #5 answered the question I posed earlier.
 
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aloha73g
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 11:15 pm

cxi727 wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
1. WN announced interisland service--4 daily roundtrips to HNL--not daily service to every city in California.


Source? Has WN specifically/publicly stated this regarding ITO service?


From today's Honolulu Star-Advertiser. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/05/ ... 60c114b961

You need an account to read the whole thing, but the relevant quote is, "Andrew Watterson, Southwest executive vice president and chief revenue officer, said Saturday the carrier just announced its intention to add four-times daily service between Hilo and Honolulu."

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
jplatts
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Sun May 12, 2019 11:24 pm

77H wrote:
Again, let’s ask ourselves what the demand is from those second tier markets to a sleepy local town in Hawaii? Hilo is largely a blue collar town so limited demand outbound as well. No doubt WN is a great airline but it is not magical, it operates under that same economic principles as every other airline.
Not every market needs a full spread of nonstops.


One big difference between ITO and most of the small regional destinations in the contiguous U.S. is that the most of the small regional destinations in the contiguous U.S. already have nonstop service or 1-stop connecting service from all of the major cities in the contiguous U.S. whereas ITO lacks 1-stop connecting service to some major cities in the contiguous U.S.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 am

aloha73g wrote:
cxi727 wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
1. WN announced interisland service--4 daily roundtrips to HNL--not daily service to every city in California.


Source? Has WN specifically/publicly stated this regarding ITO service?


From today's Honolulu Star-Advertiser. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/05/ ... 60c114b961

You need an account to read the whole thing, but the relevant quote is, "Andrew Watterson, Southwest executive vice president and chief revenue officer, said Saturday the carrier just announced its intention to add four-times daily service between Hilo and Honolulu."

-Aloha!


What people fail to realize is that Andrew Watterson was at Hawaiian and left circa 2014(?). Weird dude, didn't get his promotion, and left all butt hurt. Guess this is his way of trying to flex his muscle.

Also...what is a CRO? Seems like some made up job...who else has this position?
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
B1168
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 3:47 am

panam330 wrote:
B1168 wrote:
panam330 wrote:
AA flew DFW-LIH two winters ago with a 763. There’s a reason it hasn’t come back.


Yes, that sounds like a lack of pax (for AA) , but 7M7 (should 737 MAX grounding cease) will be a lot smaller than 763 and have just enough range to reach LIH. My hope is that WN can take away some niches and diversify the market.

Load factor wasn’t the issue.
The thought’s nice, really, but I truly don’t think we’ll see DAL-LIH nonstop scheduled service anytime soon, especially on an aircraft that small.


Yes, particularly given that WN doesn’t fly their planes overnight. Either those plane be put on ground for 10 hours minimum, or they do immediate returns which require a 7 am departure and 11pm arrival——that’s an optimistic guess! That will block pretty much every possibility, to be honest.
 
737max8
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 4:18 am

airportugal310 wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
cxi727 wrote:

Source? Has WN specifically/publicly stated this regarding ITO service?


From today's Honolulu Star-Advertiser. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/05/ ... 60c114b961

You need an account to read the whole thing, but the relevant quote is, "Andrew Watterson, Southwest executive vice president and chief revenue officer, said Saturday the carrier just announced its intention to add four-times daily service between Hilo and Honolulu."

-Aloha!


What people fail to realize is that Andrew Watterson was at Hawaiian and left circa 2014(?). Weird dude, didn't get his promotion, and left all butt hurt. Guess this is his way of trying to flex his muscle.

Also...what is a CRO? Seems like some made up job...who else has this position?


You sound more like the bitter one with your post ;)

The Chief Revenue Officer overseas the departments that you know, earn revenue for the company. Revenue Management, Sales, Rapid Rewards, etc.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A343 A359 A388
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 4:21 am

aloha73g wrote:
1. WN announced interisland service--4 daily roundtrips to HNL--not daily service to every city in California.

2. LIH flights will start before ITO; LIH was announced months ago.

3. Hilo does have hotels. 2 of them are pretty big, but its nothing compared to Kona and we like it that way.

4. AQ and HA have both served Lanai (LNY) and Molokai (MKK) with 732s and DC9s respectively. Usually as a triangle route (HNL-MKK-LNY-HNL; HNL-LNY-MKK-HNL), once a day in each direction (on AM and one PM) or what HA crews affectionately called "The Bounce" (HNL-MKK-LNY-OGG). AQ stopped 732 service after they bought Island Air. HA stopped serving MKK and LNY altogether after they got 717s and didn't return until 'Ohana started a few years ago.

5. Interisland traffic is probably about 50/50 on tourist vs locals. It's very time of day dependent. Morning and evenings will be mostly locals. Mid day will be mostly tourists. Hilo is probably 80%+ locals; definitely the highest in the state.

6. Hilo is awesome. My dad was born there a looooooong time ago. I go back many times each year and it may be my favorite place in the state. It has a lot more to offer than "rain."

-Aloha!


HA served MKK and LNY with DC-9s, but I believe AQ only served MKK but not LNY with 737s.
 
barney captain
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 6:34 am

airportugal310 wrote:
What people fail to realize is that Andrew Watterson was at Hawaiian and left circa 2014(?). Weird dude, didn't get his promotion, and left all butt hurt. Guess this is his way of trying to flex his muscle.

Also...what is a CRO? Seems like some made up job...who else has this position?


Have you met him? I have. Several times in fact, and talked with him at length.

I don't know anyone who has met him who thinks of him in any other way than highly intelligent and with wicked skills.

How have you never heard of a CRO?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_revenue_officer
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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airportugal310
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 6:50 am

I met him several times. Not sure why the SWA fanboys all come to his defense here...but that's nothing new

Just stating facts. If you don't like them, that's fine, too
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
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ADent
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 7:07 am

BNORD1 wrote:
United flew DC-8s and Pan Am flew 707s LAX to ITO early 1970s flew each several times

United flew DC-10s too.
Flew LAX-ITO right after the DC-10 grounding was lifted with 26 passengers on board - great service on that flight.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 8:05 am

B1168 wrote:
I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.


It's probably stretching it for a 3M7 to fly from DAL to Hawaii.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
Bazooka
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 9:40 am

SierraPacific wrote:
I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.

Give me a break! Money is money, whether it comes from the local airlines or an outsider(s). The state is too consumed with the rail project right now that any source of additional revenue into the state coffers would make the state senators happy.
 
superjeff
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 2:38 pm

BNORD1 wrote:
United flew DC-8s and Pan Am flew 707s LAX to ITO early 1970s flew each several times


As a college kid from Hawaii who attended school on the mainland, I can remember flying HNL-ITO-DAL on a Boeing 707-320 of Braniff International in January, 1970. About half of the passengers boarded in HNL, the other half in ITO.
 
Planes4you
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 3:02 pm

B1168 wrote:
I do want to ask a question. Is it possible for WN to use their 737 MAX 7 to fly between DFW and Hawaii? I see limited destination selections on AA, and I hope WN can improve it a bit using smaller aircrafts.


What? AA dominates Hawaii in Texas and they have multiple daily flights to the island as well.Southwest would get destroyed trying to serve Hawaii out of North Texas.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 3:11 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
I met him several times. Not sure why the SWA fanboys all come to his defense here...but that's nothing new

Just stating facts. If you don't like them, that's fine, too


The “facts” are that he is “weird” and “butt hurt”? Thanks for bringing so much reality to this thread on inter island service to ITO.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 3:31 pm

Great to hear that ITO will be added. Many of my family members who are lifelong residents of Hilo were pretty sure that WN setting up service to their "quiet little town" was far down the pipeline, if at all. Lack of competition on these interisland routes benefit no one but HA.

Couple things to reply to from what I've read so far based from insight from locals and as a frequent visitor (former resident) to that part of the islands.

-Hilo and the windward side of the Big Island isn't as tourist oriented or tourist heavy. 100% true. I personally prefer it that way, but it isn't everyone's thing and it certainly isn't conducive towards profit for an airline.

-Service to the mainland won't be happening for a long time if at all, and it will be definitely towards the biggest station on the West Coast OAK. Frankly I'm surprised UA hasn't eliminated LAX-ITO yet. ITO flights even interisland will be one of the first to go if WN ever needs to tighten its belt and cut service throughout its network.

- In state routes will definitely be HNL and OGG, maybe an infrequent LIH flight.

- Those same relatives of mine will NOT fly WN interisland and to/from the mainland. Very loyal to HA (Platinum tier frequent flyer), and HA's route network is more useful for them, who vacation throughout the Pacific Rim and have used HA's partners in JL and B6.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 3:59 pm

ADent wrote:
BNORD1 wrote:
United flew DC-8s and Pan Am flew 707s LAX to ITO early 1970s flew each several times

United flew DC-10s too.
Flew LAX-ITO right after the DC-10 grounding was lifted with 26 passengers on board - great service on that flight.


Western flew LAX-ITO also. I though PA dropped ITO in 1969. Did it last longer than that?
 
BravoOne
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 4:58 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
ADent wrote:
BNORD1 wrote:
United flew DC-8s and Pan Am flew 707s LAX to ITO early 1970s flew each several times

United flew DC-10s too.
Flew LAX-ITO right after the DC-10 grounding was lifted with 26 passengers on board - great service on that flight.


Western flew LAX-ITO also. I though PA dropped ITO in 1969. Did it last longer than that?



Western dropped out around the same time as I recall.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 5:28 pm

BravoOne wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
ADent wrote:
United flew DC-10s too.
Flew LAX-ITO right after the DC-10 grounding was lifted with 26 passengers on board - great service on that flight.


Western flew LAX-ITO also. I though PA dropped ITO in 1969. Did it last longer than that?



Western dropped out around the same time as I recall.


WA lasted until the mid-1970. PA added ITO in 1967 and dropped it in 1969, AFAIK. PA was the first to drop ITO.
 
BravoOne
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Mon May 13, 2019 6:09 pm

I recall two things about ITO, the constant rain and the DME arc approach that was used. Oh yea I forgot the monkey bar at the hotel. HNL was so much more fun back in those days.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Wed May 15, 2019 4:02 am

wnflyguy wrote:
My Guess on the ITO Schedule.
.............................07:00 HNL
HNL 08:00 ______10:00 OAK
HNL 12:00 ______12:50 HNL
HNL 15:25 ______16:25 HNL
OAK 19:00 ______20:00 HNL
HNL 20:25...........................

Flyguy


Some one sent me a counter guess.
Predicts starting December 15 2019
Fun to share. Enjoy
...................................07:00 HNL-SMF
HNL..........08:00 (60) 09:00 HNL-ONT-LAS
SMF-HNL 13:50 (60) 14:50 HNL
HNL..........17:50 (60) 16:50 HNL
ONT-HNL 20:30...............................

Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Wed May 15, 2019 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Wed May 15, 2019 4:03 am

Deleted double post.
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
usflyguy
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Wed May 15, 2019 4:14 am

airportugal310 wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
cxi727 wrote:

Source? Has WN specifically/publicly stated this regarding ITO service?


From today's Honolulu Star-Advertiser. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/05/ ... 60c114b961

You need an account to read the whole thing, but the relevant quote is, "Andrew Watterson, Southwest executive vice president and chief revenue officer, said Saturday the carrier just announced its intention to add four-times daily service between Hilo and Honolulu."

-Aloha!


What people fail to realize is that Andrew Watterson was at Hawaiian and left circa 2014(?). Weird dude, didn't get his promotion, and left all butt hurt. Guess this is his way of trying to flex his muscle.

Also...what is a CRO? Seems like some made up job...who else has this position?


CRO...

Glen Hauenstein was CRO at Delta prior to becoming its President.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
ericm2031
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Wed May 15, 2019 4:21 am

Aceskywalker wrote:
-Service to the mainland won't be happening for a long time if at all, and it will be definitely towards the biggest station on the West Coast OAK. Frankly I'm surprised UA hasn't eliminated LAX-ITO yet. ITO flights even interisland will be one of the first to go if WN ever needs to tighten its belt and cut service throughout its network.


According to this it will be happening this year...

https://www.hawaiimagazine.com/content/ ... ights-hilo
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4547
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Wed May 15, 2019 7:58 am

wnflyguy wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
My Guess on the ITO Schedule.
.............................07:00 HNL
HNL 08:00 ______10:00 OAK
HNL 12:00 ______12:50 HNL
HNL 15:25 ______16:25 HNL
OAK 19:00 ______20:00 HNL
HNL 20:25...........................

Flyguy


Some one sent me a counter guess.
Predicts starting December 15 2019
Fun to share. Enjoy
...................................07:00 HNL-SMF
HNL..........08:00 (60) 09:00 HNL-ONT-LAS
SMF-HNL 13:50 (60) 14:50 HNL
HNL..........17:50 (60) 16:50 HNL
ONT-HNL 20:30...............................

Flyguy


Did I miss something?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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cathay747
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Wed May 15, 2019 1:49 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Western flew LAX-ITO also. I though PA dropped ITO in 1969. Did it last longer than that?



Western dropped out around the same time as I recall.


WA lasted until the mid-1970. PA added ITO in 1967 and dropped it in 1969, AFAIK. PA was the first to drop ITO.


I was looking at departedflights.com yesterday, in the April 1975 No. American Desktop Flight Guide schedules, and was astounded to see that UA was running a daily 747 dedicated turn-around service LAX/ITO/LAX! Even more astonishing was NW was also running a dedicated turn-around 747 service to/from PDX, albeit Saturday-only, but still, even at once a week, that's a fairly long route to fly what had to have been a fairly empty 747! Those flights (both UA & NW) must have been non-rev. dreams!!
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SurfandSnow
Posts: 1430
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Wed May 15, 2019 6:56 pm

I'm honestly shocked that WN is adding service to ITO so soon. This could be a game changer for Hilo, which could very well be the most overbuilt/underutilized airport anywhere in the U.S.!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5411
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Thu May 23, 2019 10:19 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
1. WN announced interisland service--4 daily roundtrips to HNL--not daily service to every city in California.

2. LIH flights will start before ITO; LIH was announced months ago.

3. Hilo does have hotels. 2 of them are pretty big, but its nothing compared to Kona and we like it that way.

4. AQ and HA have both served Lanai (LNY) and Molokai (MKK) with 732s and DC9s respectively. Usually as a triangle route (HNL-MKK-LNY-HNL; HNL-LNY-MKK-HNL), once a day in each direction (on AM and one PM) or what HA crews affectionately called "The Bounce" (HNL-MKK-LNY-OGG). AQ stopped 732 service after they bought Island Air. HA stopped serving MKK and LNY altogether after they got 717s and didn't return until 'Ohana started a few years ago.

5. Interisland traffic is probably about 50/50 on tourist vs locals. It's very time of day dependent. Morning and evenings will be mostly locals. Mid day will be mostly tourists. Hilo is probably 80%+ locals; definitely the highest in the state.

6. Hilo is awesome. My dad was born there a looooooong time ago. I go back many times each year and it may be my favorite place in the state. It has a lot more to offer than "rain."

-Aloha!


HA served MKK and LNY with DC-9s, but I believe AQ only served MKK but not LNY with 737s.


We flew an AQ, or then a TS 73S with the bathtub livery HNL-MKK on Aug 2nd 1979. I can not ever remember a time when AQ served LNY with anything other than it's Island Air brand. HA used to offer the "bounce" as others have indicated, HNL-MKK-LNY-OGG or HNL-MKK-LNY-HNL & v.v. on their DC-9-50's.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
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77H
Posts: 1365
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Fri May 24, 2019 12:12 am

Bazooka wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.

Give me a break! Money is money, whether it comes from the local airlines or an outsider(s). The state is too consumed with the rail project right now that any source of additional revenue into the state coffers would make the state senators happy.


But thousands of their constituents out of jobs will certainly make them notice. As it is, state government is trying to pressure HA into bringing it’s call center back on island.

Let’s not forget that Senator Inouye that pressed UA to remain out of the inter island market decades ago. Why do you think it would be any different today?

77H
 
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RWA380
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Re: WN announces service to ITO

Fri May 24, 2019 3:56 am

77H wrote:
Bazooka wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
I've said this before but anyone who thinks that Southwest will be a major threat to HA does not know Hawaii government. I would be extremely surprised if WN got any bigger than the current presence in Hawaii.

Give me a break! Money is money, whether it comes from the local airlines or an outsider(s). The state is too consumed with the rail project right now that any source of additional revenue into the state coffers would make the state senators happy.


But thousands of their constituents out of jobs will certainly make them notice. As it is, state government is trying to pressure HA into bringing it’s call center back on island.

Let’s not forget that Senator Inouye that pressed UA to remain out of the inter island market decades ago. Why do you think it would be any different today?

77H


Times are different, when the late Senator Inouye helped block UA's entry into the Inter Island market, there was already competition, both well established local companies that represented thousands of jobs locally.

AQ was already struggling against HA & the onslaught of a myriad of Inter Island, A few years of operation carriers, including Discovery, Go & Mahalo Air & their crazy low fares to attract new customers. It was widely speculated that if UA did what they wanted, which was to base a small fleet of 73S's to opertate & compete against HA & the ailing AQ. It would have meant AQ's demise would have come sooner than later, it was meant to be that jaust that kept the carpetbagging UA from entering the market.

Oddly when AQ did cease operations, there was a shortage of available seats & I've heard, UA considered a stop gap operation until the market could fully rebound, but obviously it never came to fruition.

At this point, I suspect the market is ripe for a strong competitor. IMHO, HA will retain their 800 pound gorilla position in the Inter-Island market for business folks & those that travel frequently in state or from Hawaii to the Mainland, Oceana or Asia. I doubt HA will do much more than match fares at certain hours.

The market that WN will capture are the families taking the coolers & luggage with Lord knows what in household goods of commodities. I have booked travel there in the past & my large IBEW/NECA group, always travelled 30-50 at a time & they ALL took coolers with them, filled with fish & special dishes each of the households made, it was a party to travel with them, that is a reasonably sized dempographic that WN will appeal to. I also believe WN will get many tourists for the same reason, even if there is no brand loyalty to WN & especially if there is no brand loyalty to HA.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
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wnflyguy
Posts: 1647
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Fri May 24, 2019 4:12 am

HNL and it's 4 gates will MAX out quickly.
ITO plentifully open gates will bring an alternative connecting hub for WN in Hawaii to the mainland.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Aceskywalker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Fri May 24, 2019 12:28 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
HNL and it's 4 gates will MAX out quickly.
ITO plentifully open gates will bring an alternative connecting hub for WN in Hawaii to the mainland.

Flyguy


ITO is nonviable for a supposed alternative connect hub for Hawaii <-> Mainland.
Any alternative hub will be based out of OGG, which is better positioned geographically to feed traffic in and then hop out towards the mainland.
 
77H
Posts: 1365
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Fri May 24, 2019 1:10 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
HNL and it's 4 gates will MAX out quickly.
ITO plentifully open gates will bring an alternative connecting hub for WN in Hawaii to the mainland.

Flyguy


ITO is nonviable for a supposed alternative connect hub for Hawaii <-> Mainland.
Any alternative hub will be based out of OGG, which is better positioned geographically to feed traffic in and then hop out towards the mainland.


OGG is also nearly maxed out on gates which also limits its viability as a connection center, though I’m not sure why WN would need that in this market.

77H
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 4995
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: WN announces service to ITO

Fri May 24, 2019 1:49 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
HNL and it's 4 gates will MAX out quickly.
ITO plentifully open gates will bring an alternative connecting hub for WN in Hawaii to the mainland.

Flyguy


No, it won't. It's poorly located to be an inter-island hub. There's little demand ITO-mainland. There's relatively little demand ITO-rest of Hawaii other than HNL. All of these are objective facts readily at hand to anybody who understands hub networks. You need to up your game - by leaps and bounds.

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