User avatar
mr02
Topic Author
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 2:59 am

They are going to use their A340-300. The article doesn't state when the service is going to start.
https://www.fin24.com/Companies/Industr ... b-20190505
 
behramjee
Posts: 4898
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 6:09 am

South African Airways announces new 3 weekly nonstop flights between Guangzhou and Johannesburg using an A343 effective 18Sep. In 2018, the P2P demand between the two cities was only 24,000 passengers round trip and the average yields are half than that to HKG as the latter has much more premium demand than CAN does from JNB.

It would have been wiser if SAA used this spare A343 to instead launch a more higher yielding route which also has double the amount of P2P demand + 30% higher yield + is a Star Alliance hub ie Brussels which is also a 2 hour shorter flight than JNB-CAN each way hence cost savings too can be incurred.
 
User avatar
mr02
Topic Author
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 7:03 am

behramjee wrote:
South African Airways announces new 3 weekly nonstop flights between Guangzhou and Johannesburg using an A343 effective 18Sep. In 2018, the P2P demand between the two cities was only 24,000 passengers round trip and the average yields are half than that to HKG as the latter has much more premium demand than CAN does from JNB.

It would have been wiser if SAA used this spare A343 to instead launch a more higher yielding route which also has double the amount of P2P demand + 30% higher yield + is a Star Alliance hub ie Brussels which is also a 2 hour shorter flight than JNB-CAN each way hence cost savings too can be incurred.

Wouldn't it be better if they did a stop over in hong Kong on the days they flying to CAN
? That would increase load factors.
 
VRHNM
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 8:36 am

Note that with the new 3 weekly CAN service, the daily SA286/287 to HKG will be reduced to 4 weekly.
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6949
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 9:10 am

How long will SAA have the A340s around?
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
jubaexpress
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 10:51 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 9:15 am

behramjee wrote:
South African Airways announces new 3 weekly nonstop flights between Guangzhou and Johannesburg using an A343 effective 18Sep. In 2018, the P2P demand between the two cities was only 24,000 passengers round trip and the average yields are half than that to HKG as the latter has much more premium demand than CAN does from JNB.

It would have been wiser if SAA used this spare A343 to instead launch a more higher yielding route which also has double the amount of P2P demand + 30% higher yield + is a Star Alliance hub ie Brussels which is also a 2 hour shorter flight than JNB-CAN each way hence cost savings too can be incurred.


I guess because they can push that traffic via Frankfurt and Munich (I suppose London, too). While BRU is a Star Alliance hub, it's next to two other large Star Alliance hubs with service to South Africa, and I can't imagine there are too many European or US destinations which are served from Zaventem but not from Frankfurt or Munich. It's the problem of being the little brother next to two massive hubs. Whereas with Guangzhou, those travellers have to take a train at their own expense and at their own risk of misconnection from HKG. This may not be as attractive.
 
AF022
Posts: 1796
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 10:05 am

I can't imagine this is going to work if JNB-PEK failed. I mean yields to CAN are going to be much worse, no?
 
Blerg
Posts: 1762
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 10:27 am

Maybe they expect a lot of cargo?
 
Morgenstern1234
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:19 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 11:24 am

On a different note Air China rerouted their Beijing JNB Service via Shenzhen not long ago, so their most be more Demand between Guangdong area and South Africa right now? SAA should definitely be coordinating this move with air China
 
jfk777
Posts: 6895
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 11:57 am

Does this mean SAA is ditching Hong Kong ? Shame if they are after flying there for decades.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 12:27 pm

Morgenstern1234 wrote:
On a different note Air China rerouted their Beijing JNB Service via Shenzhen not long ago, so their most be more Demand between Guangdong area and South Africa right now? SAA should definitely be coordinating this move with air China


Why would they? Air China did not coordinate with SAA when they moved the flight with a stopover in Shenzhen.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 12:29 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Does this mean SAA is ditching Hong Kong ? Shame if they are after flying there for decades.


No, it just means that they can not compete with CX on JNB HKG route with its ancient aircraft interior and inferior business class product. They diverted some capacity to a place nicknamed African capital of China to test the water. Plus, they may get subsidy from CAN by doing so as SAA will be the first one to serve the route.
 
B1168
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 12:49 pm

Air China, when they find PEK-JNB nonstop insufficiently profitable, probably wishes to fly via CAN first; however, CAAC “in theory will not authorize stopover flights between PEK, PVG and CAN”, resulting in them either reapplying CAN-JNB and shuttle equipment from PEK all the time, or change a spot to stop. I am also pretty sure that CZ applied pressure to keep CA away; think HU’s dead and gone CAN-TLV. Plus, SZX and the government behind loves giving subsidies, else those cluster of strange European destinations will bleed off HU’s cash insanely.
But well, a new option; always appreciated.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 1:05 pm

Ahh...so SAA finally joins every other African carrier at CAN (Let see, in addition to SA, we have MD (Air Madagascar), MS (EgyptAir), KQ, ET, soon WB (Rwandair) via BOM; beside that there are ME3 + SV (Saudia) and WY (Oman Air), with the latter two doesn't even have commercial service into HKG).

Now we just need AT (Royal Air Maroc) and DT (TAAG Angola Airlines) and perhaps TC (Air Tanzania) to round things out. Surprisingly, MK (Air Mauritius) doesn't fly to CAN, though (They do fly to HKG).

chonetsao wrote:
No, it just means that they can not compete with CX on JNB HKG route with its ancient aircraft interior and inferior business class product. They diverted some capacity to a place nicknamed African capital of China to test the water. Plus, they may get subsidy from CAN by doing so as SAA will be the first one to serve the route.


Agree with this - CX still fly daily to JNB, and has that seasonal service to CPT, so the (high yielding) demand in/out of HKG is definitely there. Not sure about subsidy, though - this is CAN not SZX afterall. :white:

BTW, Guangzhou is not just "African Capital of China", but more like "Third World Capital of China". Not sure whether the African population is still that big with the crackdowns, though.
 
c933103
Posts: 3615
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 1:09 pm

AF022 wrote:
I can't imagine this is going to work if JNB-PEK failed. I mean yields to CAN are going to be much worse, no?

It would make much more geographical sense for passengers going to rest of China to connect via CAN instead of PEK, if they can make that work
This is a placeholder.
 
T54A
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:47 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 1:13 pm

777Jet wrote:
How long will SAA have the A340s around?


I little while still. SAA is however very close to signing for A350’s and A330NEO’s.
T6, Allouette 3, Oryx, King Air, B1900, B727, B744, A319, A342/3/6 A332/3
 
c933103
Posts: 3615
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 1:14 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
BTW, Guangzhou is not just "African Capital of China", but more like "Third World Capital of China". Not sure whether the African population is still that big with the crackdowns, though.

I believe those traders are still there, the "Crackdown" was just to clean out some overstayed illegal immigrants and also to please citizens with Han nationalism
This is a placeholder.
 
User avatar
mr02
Topic Author
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 1:37 pm

777Jet wrote:
How long will SAA have the A340s around?

Prolly until the turnaround strategy is implemented .i.e. after 2021. But if it doesn't work I get the feeling that the government might buy them aircraft.
 
User avatar
mr02
Topic Author
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 1:56 pm

T54A wrote:
777Jet wrote:
How long will SAA have the A340s around?


I little while still. SAA is however very close to signing for A350’s and A330NEO’s.

Link??????
 
T54A
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:47 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 3:13 pm

mr02 wrote:
T54A wrote:
777Jet wrote:
How long will SAA have the A340s around?


I little while still. SAA is however very close to signing for A350’s and A330NEO’s.

Link??????


No link unfortunately. But several people within Flight Ops are actively involved in meetings wrt an A350 fleet introduction. I’m sure a public announcement is imminent.
T6, Allouette 3, Oryx, King Air, B1900, B727, B744, A319, A342/3/6 A332/3
 
Ishrion
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 3:36 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Does this mean SAA is ditching Hong Kong ? Shame if they are after flying there for decades.


Reducing to 4x weekly: https://mobile.twitter.com/Airlineroute ... 3337661440
 
behramjee
Posts: 4898
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Mon May 06, 2019 5:18 pm

Seriously CAN doesn’t warrant nonstop service to JNB with only 24,000 annual p2p demand (round trip) paying $365 one way incl YQ versus HKG which saw 82,000 pax last year paying $672 one way average. The main difference here is the higher J class demand for HKG.

Yes as someone correctly mentioned SAA suffers on board product issues on their aging A343s versus CXs relatively new B77Ws on this route but that is something SAA has had years to update.

Also FYI JNB-PEK demand last year was 51,000 pax paying $760 one way ie more than double the fare and pax demand versus CAN !
 
User avatar
MoKa777
Posts: 875
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:47 am

Re: South African Airways starts direct flights to Guangzhou.

Tue May 07, 2019 1:00 pm

Also, reducing frequency on JNB-HKG will further undermine SA's ability to compete against and retain J pax relative to CX.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos