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Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
As the title states, why haven’t we seen the addition of after-market winglets on the 777-200 series as we’ve seen on the 767 & 757? With the average stage length of these aircraft, it would seem to make sense to add them. I’m sure there is a reason, but it just seems odd to me we haven’t seen it yet.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
The 777’s wing design is such that it would not benefit from winglets. Raked tips are far better for it; hence the -300ER and -200LR.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
Boeing offered it twice, and there were no takers... part of that being that the weight of blended winglets essentially cancelled out the benefit, and APB doesn't have access to Boeing's patents for rakes.
Combine that with the fact that there's no cargo-conversion market for 777s due to their floor structure, and there's just no demand for aftermarket winglets.
Combine that with the fact that there's no cargo-conversion market for 777s due to their floor structure, and there's just no demand for aftermarket winglets.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
N766UA wrote:The 777’s wing design is such that it would not benefit from winglets. Raked tips are far better for it; hence the -300ER and -200LR.
Slightly OT but raked wingtips have to be designed in to the wing, the aerodynamic forces are totally different on raked wingtips than blended singlets, forces so differ ent and immense that the design of raked wingtips relate to the design of the spars and wing box. And as LAX772LR said, the weight alone was cost prohibitive, for example, the winglets on the 763 are 400 lbs, a 777s would be even heavier.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
N766UA wrote:The 777’s wing design is such that it would not benefit from winglets. Raked tips are far better for it; hence the -300ER and -200LR.
I believe he’s asking about the 777-200, 777-200ER and 777-300 (no-ER) that do not have raked wing tips. It’s an interesting question.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
BoeingGuy wrote:N766UA wrote:The 777’s wing design is such that it would not benefit from winglets. Raked tips are far better for it; hence the -300ER and -200LR.
I believe he’s asking about the 777-200, 777-200ER and 777-300 (no-ER) that do not have raked wing tips. It’s an interesting question.
Yes, what he's saying is the 777's wing would benefit better with raked wingtips rather than winglets, like what you see on the -300ER and -200LR.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
What's the difference in loading on the wing between the raked tips of the 767-400 versus winglets on the 767-300?
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lightsaber
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Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
AirKevin wrote:BoeingGuy wrote:N766UA wrote:The 777’s wing design is such that it would not benefit from winglets. Raked tips are far better for it; hence the -300ER and -200LR.
I believe he’s asking about the 777-200, 777-200ER and 777-300 (no-ER) that do not have raked wing tips. It’s an interesting question.
Yes, what he's saying is the 777's wing would benefit better with raked wingtips rather than winglets, like what you see on the -300ER and -200LR.
It is anticipated weight, cost, versus time in service. Airlines kept 777-200ER on long missions longer than plan. Cest la vie. Winglets would have helped, but now it is too late.
Lightsaber
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
LAX772LR wrote:Boeing offered it twice, and there were no takers... part of that being that the weight of blended winglets essentially cancelled out the benefit, and APB doesn't have access to Boeing's patents for rakes.
Combine that with the fact that there's no cargo-conversion market for 777s due to their floor structure, and there's just no demand for aftermarket winglets.
Interesting. I never knew Boeing offered them before. I guess as someone else said, it’s just too late now to be of any benefit.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
lightsaber wrote:AirKevin wrote:BoeingGuy wrote:I believe he’s asking about the 777-200, 777-200ER and 777-300 (no-ER) that do not have raked wing tips. It’s an interesting question.
Yes, what he's saying is the 777's wing would benefit better with raked wingtips rather than winglets, like what you see on the -300ER and -200LR.
It is anticipated weight, cost, versus time in service. Airlines kept 777-200ER on long missions longer than plan. Cest la vie. Winglets would have helped, but now it is too late.
Lightsaber
I just find it interesting they weren’t incorporated into the design initially back in 1995. The 747-400 was designed before the 777 and it had them. I’m no aeronautical engineer, but it surprises me the wing tips on the original -200s and -300s were just plain.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
ual763 wrote:LAX772LR wrote:Boeing offered it twice, and there were no takers.
Interesting. I never knew Boeing offered them before.
The first and more serious attempt was in 2004.
APB and CO were supposed to jointly test/trial winglets on a 77E, but IIRC, the trial never took place.
There was a quieter approach in 2012, where Boeing again shopped the idea around, but that one quickly fizzled out as well.
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Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
ual763 wrote:I just find it interesting they weren’t incorporated into the design initially back in 1995. The 747-400 was designed before the 777 and it had them. I’m no aeronautical engineer, but it surprises me the wing tips on the original -200s and -300s were just plain.
I may be wrong, but it may be to do with keeping the wingspan down to fit into the same gates as the aircraft the first 777's were replacing.
Re: Why no aftermarket winglets on 777-200?
ual763 wrote:lightsaber wrote:AirKevin wrote:Yes, what he's saying is the 777's wing would benefit better with raked wingtips rather than winglets, like what you see on the -300ER and -200LR.
It is anticipated weight, cost, versus time in service. Airlines kept 777-200ER on long missions longer than plan. Cest la vie. Winglets would have helped, but now it is too late.
Lightsaber
I just find it interesting they weren’t incorporated into the design initially back in 1995. The 747-400 was designed before the 777 and it had them. I’m no aeronautical engineer, but it surprises me the wing tips on the original -200s and -300s were just plain.
IIRC the claim at the time was the wing (all done on spiffy new computers) was so efficient, that winglets were not even needed. That didn't last too long. Superjet team made the same claim and now they're getting winglets too so we see how well statements like that hold up.
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