planecane wrote:zoom321 wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-21/boeing-max-could-stay-grounded-beyond-this-year-indonesia-says?srnd=premium-asia
Despite what many fan boys may say, the world will put safety first.
It is snarky comments and attitudes like this that have ruined this thread. What "fan boys" have been saying not to put safety first? Discussing and criticizing crew actions IN ADDITION TO Boeing's design error doesn't mean not putting safety first.
Indonesians are offended because Boeing essentially blamed the crew following the Lion Air crash. Therefore, Indonesian authorities are speaking out more strongly against Boeing. Boeing should not have reacted that way when they realized that MCAS-induced runaway stabilizer led to the crash. Even though I am of the opinion that the same crew, with the same other alerts/issues going on would not have responded properly to a runaway stabilizer caused by something else as described in the FCOM/QRH, the fact that the failure mode was slightly different and undocumented means that Boeing should not have publicly blamed the crew.
With the post-Lion Air EAD and documentation of MCAS, I am also of the opinion that any crew should have been able to recognize and recover from an MCAS-induced runaway stabilizer. The fact that the ET crew didn't indicates either a training or an understanding of training and documentation issue that needs to be addressed because it might not only apply to MCAS-induced runaway stabilizer.
With all that said, I think that the grounding was the correct course of action and Boeing must demonstrate that with the fixes MCAS-induced runaway stabilizer events will happen at a rate as low or lower than other causes of runaway stabilizer. Crews should be able to handle emergencies but that doesn't mean I would want emergencies happening at a high rate to be dealt with.
They must also demonstrate that, if it does happen, crews will have the training to properly recognize it and recover from it without difficulty. Finally, they also must disclose ALL changes made from the NG to the MAX so that worldwide authorities can analyze the changes and ensure nothing else was missed during certification.
If they do all of this and a country refuses to lift the grounding, then they are doing it for reasons other than putting safety first.
I'd like to request that the anti-Boeing and/or anti-American posters please stop using the MCAS related MAX crashes to "get" Boeing or "put the U.S.A. in its place." I'd suggest the moderators lock this thread and start a news/facts only thread on the grounding. The only reason that I keep responding to things that I view as wrong is that I'm sure there is non-aviation media that reads this site for background information on MAX stories and I don't want them taking opinions or incorrect statements as facts and presenting them to the "average Joe" audience.
I was not going to respond to this post since you make some reasoned points and have done so before. However, I think the un-necessary attack on PixelFlight has persuaded me otherwise, so I come back to it.
This thread was hijacked from the start by those wishing to push the 'Foreign Pilots did it' Boeing line and only that line. Some felt it necessary to respond and continue to do so as the same line is trotted out again and again.
You yourself, are a prime exponent of the incorrect use of the word 'fact', paragraphs 4 and 5 being cases in point. These are not facts. I can recall no other poster who actually does so as consistently (yes, I have read the vast majority of posts on all 5 threads).
You have been provided with considered analyses that provide possible alternative interpretations of the data and consistently ignore these if they do not support your bias (no, I'm not going to repeat them, you can go back and look as well as me, and you'll probably ignore them again anyway).
I am not aware of "Anti" posters, but accept there may be one or two. If there are, they are overwhelmed by the 'Foreign Pilots did it' posters. The only place I can recall seeing the words you put in quotes (except "average Joe") is in your post, so assume you are quoting yourself. As for the media, a law unto themselves, they will make their own minds up, except for those bought and paid for already. You can always scream 'fake news' if the outcome does not suit you.
If I were Indonesian, I would have been irked with the Boeing line being trotted out even before the Preliminary Report was released. I would be absolutely livid this week that the line is still being trotted out by Boeing, but also now by the FAA in front of a congressional hearing. The lack of Integrity and humility is astonishing. I think the Indonesian response is remarkably measured. Whilst Boeing can hide a little behind 'its what you might expect from a corporation in their position', there is no hiding place for the FAA.
On a personal note and perhaps as a paid up member of ROTW, my view of the integrity of the FAA was severely shaken by the events and revelations following the second crash. The line I would have expected the FAA to take this week would be something like - Design and certification of MAX and actions following the two crash event will be thoroughly investigated and ourselves and Boeing will be held accountable for any deficiencies identified and their correction. - What did we get 'Foreign Pilots did it'. All vestiges of integrity gone.
This is a desparate position for the whole world.
Ray
