NZ321
Posts: 1026
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 11:27 am

A small number of 789s (say 4) to replace the 77Es coming off lease might be a likely scenario for the upcoming order and some tweaking of cabin config to boot. Then when NZ orders the replacement for the balance of 77Es and 77W we could see an order for a mix of further 787s (if Boeing launches an upgraded 787-9 plus some 78J) or for A350 NEO which could be just for the A359 or a mix of A359 and A35K. As I said before that allows NZ to consider the ultra-fan / A350 NEO which is expected to be available about 2024. at that point they could also reduce the 789 fleet somewhat if needed by disposing of older aircraft / aircraft on leases. This sort of approach positions NZ to be in a good position to take advantage of the next step-change in engine technology and efficiency.
Plane mad!
 
PA515
Posts: 1461
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 3:31 pm

ZK-OKC as today's NZ31 EZE-AKL appeared on FR24 about 380km south east of DUD. Presently about 70km east of CHC heading 006 degrees and doing 547kts. This is the deepest most westerly approach I've seen.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ31/20875c14
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/zk-okc


PA515
 
tu2130
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 17, 2019 6:26 am

I know. It must've done that, last time It went past Hamilton. at 14000 ft
Air New Zealand. Proud to fly.
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 17, 2019 11:31 pm

This is fantastic news! Something I've ranted about a few times over the last year or two.

Hopefully, light rail now becomes just a Dominion Road / Mangere Town Centre line and some type of dedicated light rail/sky train service can be built to connect Puhinui and the airport. Then once a rail line heads North over the Waitemata the airport will be connected to the 2 million people via electrified rail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112771 ... nterchange
 
a7ala
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 12:53 am

NZ6 wrote:
This is fantastic news! Something I've ranted about a few times over the last year or two.

Hopefully, light rail now becomes just a Dominion Road / Mangere Town Centre line and some type of dedicated light rail/sky train service can be built to connect Puhinui and the airport. Then once a rail line heads North over the Waitemata the airport will be connected to the 2 million people via electrified rail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112771 ... nterchange


Whoopee! Is this forum New Zealand aviation or Auckland aviation? No news or discussion at all on the announcement of $6b being spent on it becoming easier to get to/from Wellington airport. Sheesh.
 
User avatar
SelandiaBaru
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:39 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 1:01 am

a7ala wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
This is fantastic news! Something I've ranted about a few times over the last year or two.

Hopefully, light rail now becomes just a Dominion Road / Mangere Town Centre line and some type of dedicated light rail/sky train service can be built to connect Puhinui and the airport. Then once a rail line heads North over the Waitemata the airport will be connected to the 2 million people via electrified rail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112771 ... nterchange


Whoopee! Is this forum New Zealand aviation or Auckland aviation? No news or discussion at all on the announcement of $6b being spent on it becoming easier to get to/from Wellington airport. Sheesh.


Do enlighten us, from what I've read there wasn't a huge amount of detail in the Wellington funding announcement.
 
a7ala
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 1:06 am

SelandiaBaru wrote:
a7ala wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
This is fantastic news! Something I've ranted about a few times over the last year or two.

Hopefully, light rail now becomes just a Dominion Road / Mangere Town Centre line and some type of dedicated light rail/sky train service can be built to connect Puhinui and the airport. Then once a rail line heads North over the Waitemata the airport will be connected to the 2 million people via electrified rail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112771 ... nterchange


Whoopee! Is this forum New Zealand aviation or Auckland aviation? No news or discussion at all on the announcement of $6b being spent on it becoming easier to get to/from Wellington airport. Sheesh.


Do enlighten us, from what I've read there wasn't a huge amount of detail in the Wellington funding announcement.


Positives and negatives.

Positives: Duplication of Mount Victoria tunnels and 4 laning to the airport. Rapid transit to the airport

Negatives: not fixing the road network between the motorway and Mount Victoria. The ridiculously long time frame things are going to take. 40% share for local ratepayers when the roading projects are state highway and should be 100% taxpayers
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 1:23 am

a7ala wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
This is fantastic news! Something I've ranted about a few times over the last year or two.

Hopefully, light rail now becomes just a Dominion Road / Mangere Town Centre line and some type of dedicated light rail/sky train service can be built to connect Puhinui and the airport. Then once a rail line heads North over the Waitemata the airport will be connected to the 2 million people via electrified rail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112771 ... nterchange


Whoopee! Is this forum New Zealand aviation or Auckland aviation? No news or discussion at all on the announcement of $6b being spent on it becoming easier to get to/from Wellington airport. Sheesh.


I've read that but was too busy to post the other day. I'm not as interested in WLG as I am AKL given I live here so didn't come back to it. I'm not stopping anyone from sharing WLG news, I'm merely coming back to a topic I ranted about a few times with some positive updates.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 1:26 am

NZ6 wrote:
This is fantastic news! Something I've ranted about a few times over the last year or two.

Hopefully, light rail now becomes just a Dominion Road / Mangere Town Centre line and some type of dedicated light rail/sky train service can be built to connect Puhinui and the airport. Then once a rail line heads North over the Waitemata the airport will be connected to the 2 million people via electrified rail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112771 ... nterchange

The plan has always been to have access to the south and east via an Airport-Puhinui-Manukau-Botany busway as well as access from the north via light rail via Dominion Road. It was always going to be the Manukau link that got the nod first, replacing the existing Route 380. If anything, this probably ensures that the Dominion Road light rail link to the airport DOES get built to provide a single-seat ride to the city, as by investing in the busway to Puhinui, AT and the government are effectively saying that they are NOT proceeding with Mike Lee's current favourite pet project, a heavy rail link to Puhinui and on to the city. I note that the announcement suggests that in future the Airport-Puhinui-Manukau-Botany link may also covert to light rail, but conversion to heavy rail would be a whole different ballgame, involving some serious gymnastics to get the line over SH20, and apart from Mike Lee and a few other heavy-rail nuts there is no one (certainly no one with any kind of political or financial clout whatsoever) proposing we should proceed with this seriously-expensive alternative. Quite apart from unnecessarily bringing inefficiencies to the operation of the Southern Line.

Notwithstanding, the trip from the airport to the city via Puhinui is estimated at 46 minutes, assuming of course that there is no significant wait between bus and train, and does make this a viable (albeit cumbersome) way of getting to the Airport from the city. The very slick station planned for Puhinui (such a contrast from the current shelter) is specifically to facilitate the bus/rail interchange for the benefit of airport passengers.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 1:28 am

a7ala wrote:
Whoopee! Is this forum New Zealand aviation or Auckland aviation? No news or discussion at all on the announcement of $6b being spent on it becoming easier to get to/from Wellington airport. Sheesh.

Umm, there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from posting on the Wellington-Airport rapid transit connection - perhaps that it hasn't happened is a reflection of a lack of interest?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 1:29 am

a7ala wrote:
SelandiaBaru wrote:
a7ala wrote:

Whoopee! Is this forum New Zealand aviation or Auckland aviation? No news or discussion at all on the announcement of $6b being spent on it becoming easier to get to/from Wellington airport. Sheesh.


Do enlighten us, from what I've read there wasn't a huge amount of detail in the Wellington funding announcement.


Positives and negatives.

Positives: Duplication of Mount Victoria tunnels and 4 laning to the airport. Rapid transit to the airport

Negatives: not fixing the road network between the motorway and Mount Victoria. The ridiculously long time frame things are going to take. 40% share for local ratepayers when the roading projects are state highway and should be 100% taxpayers


It's been called "rapid" yet from what I heard there were no specific details decided on regarding the type of airport connection other than it'll a dedicated corridor... yet they've light rail used in the imagery.

Rapid should only be used in terms of true metro systems aka, SIN, HKG and the new SYD system.

However, it's a good step forward. Hopefully the route ends at the railway station and not up the road near Te Papa etc.
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 1:45 am

Last year I raised my concerns over VA's approach to taking on the Tasman market post Air NZ. I outlined their lack of presence and marketing.... in the last week or so we've seen the scale back some operations... most concerning being CHC-SYD to seasonal...!!

How long do we give them in the market and why do you think this is happening?

Personally, I think they've been trying to be seen as 'full service' with meals and IFE.... but without true built-in IFE (vs using your own personal device) without a functioning loyalty base, lounges, marketing, corporate contracts in NZ, they're always going to struggle. The research I've seen still suggests the public perceive them as a low-cost carrier or a carrier who offers a very basic level of full service (which is likely very true).

Ultimately, the question is why would people fly VA? Is it different or unique? I.e something you 'must try' (Boutique) or something you 'want to try' (high level of service SQ/EK etc), is it cheaper than others in the market (FR/U2)? does it go anywhere different or direct (CHC-ADL, CHC-HBA), do you get rewarded in a way which is beneficial to you? -( what good are VA points to Kiwis)?

Is the market simply not big enough for 4 premium carriers? QF/VA/NZ/EK or 5 carriers QF/JQ/NZ/VA/EK??
 
zkncj
Posts: 3122
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 2:14 am

NZ6 wrote:
Last year I raised my concerns over VA's approach to taking on the Tasman market post Air NZ. I outlined their lack of presence and marketing.... in the last week or so we've seen the scale back some operations... most concerning being CHC-SYD to seasonal...!!


Ironically (not that I want to ideally fly VA) just was looking at booking flights on VA on my iPhone this morning, and there Moblie website doesn’t support departures from New Zealand!

I’ve booked AKL-Europe flights on my iPhone with other airlines, yet VA can’t do this properly for AKl-BNE
 
a7ala
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 4:07 am

NZ6 wrote:
Last year I raised my concerns over VA's approach to taking on the Tasman market post Air NZ. I outlined their lack of presence and marketing.... in the last week or so we've seen the scale back some operations... most concerning being CHC-SYD to seasonal...!!

How long do we give them in the market and why do you think this is happening?

Personally, I think they've been trying to be seen as 'full service' with meals and IFE.... but without true built-in IFE (vs using your own personal device) without a functioning loyalty base, lounges, marketing, corporate contracts in NZ, they're always going to struggle. The research I've seen still suggests the public perceive them as a low-cost carrier or a carrier who offers a very basic level of full service (which is likely very true).

Ultimately, the question is why would people fly VA? Is it different or unique? I.e something you 'must try' (Boutique) or something you 'want to try' (high level of service SQ/EK etc), is it cheaper than others in the market (FR/U2)? does it go anywhere different or direct (CHC-ADL, CHC-HBA), do you get rewarded in a way which is beneficial to you? -( what good are VA points to Kiwis)?

Is the market simply not big enough for 4 premium carriers? QF/VA/NZ/EK or 5 carriers QF/JQ/NZ/VA/EK??


One of the main issues VA faces is connectivity. QF and NZ carry significant connecting traffic via their hubs allowing them to operate more capacity. VA doesnt have particularly strong hubs and because they have started new services they find it hard to secure good slots in Australian airports. You just need to look at their wlg-syd schedule which is all over the place at the moment.
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 4:49 am

a7ala wrote:
One of the main issues VA faces is connectivity. QF and NZ carry significant connecting traffic via their hubs allowing them to operate more capacity. VA doesnt have particularly strong hubs and because they have started new services they find it hard to secure good slots in Australian airports. You just need to look at their wlg-syd schedule which is all over the place at the moment.


Would actually dispute that slightly, VA has connectivity issues here in NZ but NZ has them in AU.... well they did until it was addressed with a partnership with firstly VA, then QF....

VA left the NZ market. VA then had an alliance with NZ, so is it bad luck, poor planning or something else which has them left with no connectivity in NZ?
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 4:53 am

NZ6 wrote:
Ultimately, the question is why would people fly VA? Is it different or unique? I.e something you 'must try' (Boutique) or something you 'want to try' (high level of service SQ/EK etc), is it cheaper than others in the market (FR/U2)? does it go anywhere different or direct (CHC-ADL, CHC-HBA), do you get rewarded in a way which is beneficial to you? -( what good are VA points to Kiwis)?

Is the market simply not big enough for 4 premium carriers? QF/VA/NZ/EK or 5 carriers QF/JQ/NZ/VA/EK??

They made a first tentative step toward a point of difference with AKL-NTL. Does anyone know if it was a success, and will we see it again next summer?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat May 18, 2019 10:38 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Ultimately, the question is why would people fly VA? Is it different or unique? I.e something you 'must try' (Boutique) or something you 'want to try' (high level of service SQ/EK etc), is it cheaper than others in the market (FR/U2)? does it go anywhere different or direct (CHC-ADL, CHC-HBA), do you get rewarded in a way which is beneficial to you? -( what good are VA points to Kiwis)?

Is the market simply not big enough for 4 premium carriers? QF/VA/NZ/EK or 5 carriers QF/JQ/NZ/VA/EK??

They made a first tentative step toward a point of difference with AKL-NTL. Does anyone know if it was a success, and will we see it again next summer?


No idea how it's going. I did hear a rumour from someone who knew someone at the airport when it departing they apparently said the 'gate lounge looked very empty'. You can't read too much into that though.

As for my comment. just to clarify, it's not to suggest VA needs to or should fly somewhere different, it was simply highlighting that their markets aren't single operator markets so don't have that as a point of difference when trying to gain market share. They're competing with QF, JQ, NZ, EK etc...
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 12:01 am

It’s been a little quiet here, just some out loud thinking on NZ’s fleet and possible expansion freeing up aircraft.

After the last current 789 on order later his year NZ will not have any long haul aircraft on order until the 772 replacements begin arriving, assuming these don’t arrive until the first 772 exits in 2022? This may not be the case however but got me thinking.

NZ could retime NZ5/6 AKL-LAX to
AKL 1600 LAX 0700
LAX 1100 AKL 1930

They could then do NZ1/2, 5/6 with 4 frames as NZ5 could connect to the last WLG/CHC flights of the day and NZ6 could pick up SYD/MEL/BNE, NZ5 aircraft could turn around as NZ2 at 2250.

I was also thinking will they take on 77W ZK-OKT on a long term lease? And repaint and refurbish? HKG is always mentioned as 1 route where additional capacity could be used they could use it there? This would free up a 772.

Anyway just looking at ways they could grow in the short term without adding more 787s, could be no such plans and they have cut growth somewhat.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 12:33 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Anyway just looking at ways they could grow in the short term without adding more 787s, could be no such plans and they have cut growth somewhat.

I'm picking that if they need more capacity there's still the rumoured 77W from Eva Air that is rumoured not to be going back. Then it's really just a matter of timing: 14th 789 due late this year, deliveries of 77E replacement start 2021(?). The Eva Air 77W could in effect be a 2020 capacity increase if they keep it and all 789s are by then back in service (as a shareholder, I sure hope so!). Any which way, I don't expect the 77Es to be retired immediately on delivery of a replacement aircraft - there's room for a bit of overlap, and this could boost capacity as well.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 1:22 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
It’s been a little quiet here, just some out loud thinking on NZ’s fleet and possible expansion freeing up aircraft.

After the last current 789 on order later his year NZ will not have any long haul aircraft on order until the 772 replacements begin arriving, assuming these don’t arrive until the first 772 exits in 2022? This may not be the case however but got me thinking.

NZ could retime NZ5/6 AKL-LAX to
AKL 1600 LAX 0700
LAX 1100 AKL 1930

They could then do NZ1/2, 5/6 with 4 frames as NZ5 could connect to the last WLG/CHC flights of the day and NZ6 could pick up SYD/MEL/BNE, NZ5 aircraft could turn around as NZ2 at 2250.

I was also thinking will they take on 77W ZK-OKT on a long term lease? And repaint and refurbish? HKG is always mentioned as 1 route where additional capacity could be used they could use it there? This would free up a 772.

Anyway just looking at ways they could grow in the short term without adding more 787s, could be no such plans and they have cut growth somewhat.


I've always loved the 1600 Departure to the States as it gives you a full day up there when you arrive to either connect onwards or to get to your hotel etc. Some have said it's a long daylight flight with only a very short period of darkness which is firstly 'boring' then leaves you tired once you arrive. Their preference is around the 2000-2200 mark as you're more tired and once you've had dinner and a few glasses of wine you sleep much longer and arrive more refreshed. Each to their own I guess.

The main issue with a 1600 Departure time is you leave before a lot (not all) of the inbound international arrivals, BNE, MEL, SYD, ADL, CNS, PER (2nd service), MCY, OOL, NAN, RAR, APW, TBU...

With your idea on NZ5, you're leaving before a lot of inbound flights arrive in LAX, you also miss every Australian connection and most Pacific flights except those night services. Inbound won't be of such concern as IAH, ORD and one day NYC grow as they're targeting that East coast base. BUT the onward flights beyond NZ are essential to LAX-AKL flights. Given a large pool of this is also price sensitive passengers ex Australia I doubt NZ would want them on NZ1.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 2:10 am

NZ6 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
It’s been a little quiet here, just some out loud thinking on NZ’s fleet and possible expansion freeing up aircraft.

After the last current 789 on order later his year NZ will not have any long haul aircraft on order until the 772 replacements begin arriving, assuming these don’t arrive until the first 772 exits in 2022? This may not be the case however but got me thinking.

NZ could retime NZ5/6 AKL-LAX to
AKL 1600 LAX 0700
LAX 1100 AKL 1930

They could then do NZ1/2, 5/6 with 4 frames as NZ5 could connect to the last WLG/CHC flights of the day and NZ6 could pick up SYD/MEL/BNE, NZ5 aircraft could turn around as NZ2 at 2250.

I was also thinking will they take on 77W ZK-OKT on a long term lease? And repaint and refurbish? HKG is always mentioned as 1 route where additional capacity could be used they could use it there? This would free up a 772.

Anyway just looking at ways they could grow in the short term without adding more 787s, could be no such plans and they have cut growth somewhat.


I've always loved the 1600 Departure to the States as it gives you a full day up there when you arrive to either connect onwards or to get to your hotel etc. Some have said it's a long daylight flight with only a very short period of darkness which is firstly 'boring' then leaves you tired once you arrive. Their preference is around the 2000-2200 mark as you're more tired and once you've had dinner and a few glasses of wine you sleep much longer and arrive more refreshed. Each to their own I guess.

The main issue with a 1600 Departure time is you leave before a lot (not all) of the inbound international arrivals, BNE, MEL, SYD, ADL, CNS, PER (2nd service), MCY, OOL, NAN, RAR, APW, TBU...

With your idea on NZ5, you're leaving before a lot of inbound flights arrive in LAX, you also miss every Australian connection and most Pacific flights except those night services. Inbound won't be of such concern as IAH, ORD and one day NYC grow as they're targeting that East coast base. BUT the onward flights beyond NZ are essential to LAX-AKL flights. Given a large pool of this is also price sensitive passengers ex Australia I doubt NZ would want them on NZ1.


I hear you for sure re the connections. Maybe use a smaller 789? Or 3 daily though that seems unlikely for now given the fragmenting market.

Just me thinking or trying to think outside the square which i probably aren’t anyway, chuck in HKG with its new schedule from NW and you could do LHR-LAX-AKL-HKG-AKL-LAX-AKL-LAX-LHR with 5 frames where you currently need 7 soon 6 once HKG is retimed. Though on a different rotation.

I think the US services on the whole though due to higher yields are the ones least likely to be retimed.

Add in an 8th 77W and the remaining 3 can do daily SFO and 3 weekly IAH in NW.

In Longterm future maybe 3 daily 789s to LAX and they could offer something like what I said? Or UA do the third flight?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 2:11 am

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Ultimately, the question is why would people fly VA? Is it different or unique? I.e something you 'must try' (Boutique) or something you 'want to try' (high level of service SQ/EK etc), is it cheaper than others in the market (FR/U2)? does it go anywhere different or direct (CHC-ADL, CHC-HBA), do you get rewarded in a way which is beneficial to you? -( what good are VA points to Kiwis)?

Is the market simply not big enough for 4 premium carriers? QF/VA/NZ/EK or 5 carriers QF/JQ/NZ/VA/EK??

They made a first tentative step toward a point of difference with AKL-NTL. Does anyone know if it was a success, and will we see it again next summer?


I did look at a few dates in JAN and it only came up with 1 stop options.
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 3:44 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
It’s been a little quiet here, just some out loud thinking on NZ’s fleet and possible expansion freeing up aircraft.

After the last current 789 on order later his year NZ will not have any long haul aircraft on order until the 772 replacements begin arriving, assuming these don’t arrive until the first 772 exits in 2022? This may not be the case however but got me thinking.

Anyway just looking at ways they could grow in the short term without adding more 787s, could be no such plans and they have cut growth somewhat.


How much extra capacity will NZ want over the coming 3 years? , when we look at it we've got the 2020 summer (this coming summer), 2021 summer, 2022 summer and during 2023 we may see fleet arrivals if not by summer 2024 we definitely will have.

Outside of peak summer months, there is room in the schedule for extra flights, it's really just summer months that present an issue of very little room for growth.

This year we'll see growth with the 14th 789 coming online so it's essentially only 2 or 3 more seasons, weigh in the softening market and the recent growth via ICN, TPE, ORD as well as building EZE and the wider South American market will we see more of a period of consolidation before launching forward again in 2022-2023 with extra flights and new routes...

Further to this, if ORD, TPE, ICN or even EZE don't work or become unviable, you've got spare frames to deploy elsewhere. NZ doesn't want the risk associated with too many 'developing' markets.

Hypothetical, NZ gets another 789 and opens DEL as well. Then TPE and ICN fall over, DPS becomes unpopular again and finally DEL doesn't work... all of a sudden NZ has 3-4 789 frames sitting in the hanger...
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 4:11 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
In Longterm future maybe 3 daily 789s to LAX and they could offer something like what I said? Or UA do the third flight?

The current strategy seems to be to put all extra capacity on new destinations rather than existing ones. LAX will probably become solely point-to-point traffic (plus transit to the UK) while the airline tries to reinforce it's point of difference by opening routes to EWR, DEN, LAS etc. Besides, there are better connection points than LAX for the majority of potential destinations, so it really is better to focus growth elsewhere.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4245
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 4:26 am

Interested to hear whether people think Sounds Air could expand further north than TUO?

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 4:48 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Interested to hear whether people think Sounds Air could expand further north than TUO?

Cheers,

C.


How many passengers do they take that don't work for DOC? The essentially picked up WLG-TUO post the Air NZ B1900 withdrawal purely due to the 'light' demand DOC provided.
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 6:07 am

a7ala wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
This is fantastic news! Something I've ranted about a few times over the last year or two.

Hopefully, light rail now becomes just a Dominion Road / Mangere Town Centre line and some type of dedicated light rail/sky train service can be built to connect Puhinui and the airport. Then once a rail line heads North over the Waitemata the airport will be connected to the 2 million people via electrified rail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112771 ... nterchange


Whoopee! Is this forum New Zealand aviation or Auckland aviation? No news or discussion at all on the announcement of $6b being spent on it becoming easier to get to/from Wellington airport. Sheesh.


Not before time when it finally happens. It took 50 minutes to get from the airport to our hotel in the city this afternoon.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Just me thinking or trying to think outside the square which i probably aren’t anyway, chuck in HKG with its new schedule from NW and you could do LHR-LAX-AKL-HKG-AKL-LAX-AKL-LAX-LHR with 5 frames where you currently need 7 soon 6 once HKG is retimed. Though on a different rotation.


I was under the impression that HKG has always been a bit of a struggle for NZ. Has the CX JV changed this?
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 6:24 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Interested to hear whether people think Sounds Air could expand further north than TUO?

Cheers,

C.


I'd also be interested to see how these 'mino' operators could better work together in some type of operating alliance. I mean there's

Air2There
Sounds Air
Origin Air
Air Chathams
Barrier Air
FlyMySky
Sun Air

So upper north there's Air Chathams, Barrier Air and FlyMySky, central North Island you have Sun Air and then lower North Island / Upper South there's Origin Air, Sounds Air, Air2There.

Lower south, such as CHC/DUD/ZQN/IVC is a gap. There is Stewart Air or similar but would not be attached to the network currently as it's only IVC-Stewart Island. I also, think there's a Golden Bay Air which I haven't listed and I'm sure there will be a few others out there.

Individually they don't offer much, but how what could they offer each other if they worked in cooperation and not under NZ management. Could there be any use for the Air Chat's ATR to link the likes of AKL and PPQ which connects onto NSN/PCN/BHE/WLG/NPE, for example?

Sunday dream day.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 7:04 am

NZ6 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
It’s been a little quiet here, just some out loud thinking on NZ’s fleet and possible expansion freeing up aircraft.

After the last current 789 on order later his year NZ will not have any long haul aircraft on order until the 772 replacements begin arriving, assuming these don’t arrive until the first 772 exits in 2022? This may not be the case however but got me thinking.

Anyway just looking at ways they could grow in the short term without adding more 787s, could be no such plans and they have cut growth somewhat.


How much extra capacity will NZ want over the coming 3 years? , when we look at it we've got the 2020 summer (this coming summer), 2021 summer, 2022 summer and during 2023 we may see fleet arrivals if not by summer 2024 we definitely will have.

Outside of peak summer months, there is room in the schedule for extra flights, it's really just summer months that present an issue of very little room for growth.

This year we'll see growth with the 14th 789 coming online so it's essentially only 2 or 3 more seasons, weigh in the softening market and the recent growth via ICN, TPE, ORD as well as building EZE and the wider South American market will we see more of a period of consolidation before launching forward again in 2022-2023 with extra flights and new routes...

Further to this, if ORD, TPE, ICN or even EZE don't work or become unviable, you've got spare frames to deploy elsewhere. NZ doesn't want the risk associated with too many 'developing' markets.

Hypothetical, NZ gets another 789 and opens DEL as well. Then TPE and ICN fall over, DPS becomes unpopular again and finally DEL doesn't work... all of a sudden NZ has 3-4 789 frames sitting in the hanger...


No idea they have slowed growth to 3-4% from 6-7% a year. Still growth however and with the recent announcement of deferring some new aircraft orders they may need capacity somewhere? Holding onto 772s slightly longer is an option.

I’d NZ/CX go 3 daily to HKG year round we could see NZ ops 2 daily in NS while CX do in NW already for 3 months anyway.

However I do agree that we are talking about 2-3 months of the year where the fleet is stretched.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 7:11 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
In Longterm future maybe 3 daily 789s to LAX and they could offer something like what I said? Or UA do the third flight?

The current strategy seems to be to put all extra capacity on new destinations rather than existing ones. LAX will probably become solely point-to-point traffic (plus transit to the UK) while the airline tries to reinforce it's point of difference by opening routes to EWR, DEN, LAS etc. Besides, there are better connection points than LAX for the majority of potential destinations, so it really is better to focus growth elsewhere.


Yes you are right there and I can see that continuing with smaller 789s on some 772 routes in future ie IAH but transferring Capacity to ORD etc and NYC in future.

LHR is another one, I’d imagine it stays around at least for several more years as it’s a high yielding route in LAX-LHR itself by they could free a frame there if they really wanted to.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 7:15 am

Unclekoru wrote:
a7ala wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
This is fantastic news! Something I've ranted about a few times over the last year or two.

Hopefully, light rail now becomes just a Dominion Road / Mangere Town Centre line and some type of dedicated light rail/sky train service can be built to connect Puhinui and the airport. Then once a rail line heads North over the Waitemata the airport will be connected to the 2 million people via electrified rail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112771 ... nterchange


Whoopee! Is this forum New Zealand aviation or Auckland aviation? No news or discussion at all on the announcement of $6b being spent on it becoming easier to get to/from Wellington airport. Sheesh.


Not before time when it finally happens. It took 50 minutes to get from the airport to our hotel in the city this afternoon.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Just me thinking or trying to think outside the square which i probably aren’t anyway, chuck in HKG with its new schedule from NW and you could do LHR-LAX-AKL-HKG-AKL-LAX-AKL-LAX-LHR with 5 frames where you currently need 7 soon 6 once HKG is retimed. Though on a different rotation.


I was under the impression that HKG has always been a bit of a struggle for NZ. Has the CX JV changed this?


NZ have been daily to HKG since late 2006 when HKG-LHR started, initially with the 744 then the 772, HKG-LHR dropped to 5 weekly but AKL-HKG stayed daily for some time aswell with a 772 at HKG for 36hrs. 1 or 2 years they did go up to 9 weekly AKL-HKG aswell.

It was daily 763s in NW for several years before 2006 aswell.

The JV has improved CX to AKL I know and NZ to I’d say.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5135
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 9:21 am

NZ6 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Interested to hear whether people think Sounds Air could expand further north than TUO?

Cheers,

C.


I'd also be interested to see how these 'mino' operators could better work together in some type of operating alliance. I mean there's

Air2There
Sounds Air
Origin Air
Air Chathams
Barrier Air
FlyMySky
Sun Air

So upper north there's Air Chathams, Barrier Air and FlyMySky, central North Island you have Sun Air and then lower North Island / Upper South there's Origin Air, Sounds Air, Air2There.

Lower south, such as CHC/DUD/ZQN/IVC is a gap. There is Stewart Air or similar but would not be attached to the network currently as it's only IVC-Stewart Island. I also, think there's a Golden Bay Air which I haven't listed and I'm sure there will be a few others out there.

Individually they don't offer much, but how what could they offer each other if they worked in cooperation and not under NZ management. Could there be any use for the Air Chat's ATR to link the likes of AKL and PPQ which connects onto NSN/PCN/BHE/WLG/NPE, for example?

Sunday dream day.

Interesting idea but not going to happen. Among other things:

  • Air2There is in liquidation.
  • Origin Air’s Jetstreams were operated by Air2There, and so they have also been pretty inactive, save from a few flights operated by Air Whanganui’s King Air (and I think one rotation operated by Air Chathams’ Metro)
  • Barrier Air and FlyMySky would never work together - if they would they would already be doing it. I would say the more likely avenue to consolidation in this particular market is one of the operators folding. Barrier Air has been working hard in recent times to distinguish themselves as a boutique airline, with a ground staff supporting the operation, whereas FlyMySky, with their laminated boarding cards, group boarding calls (they call “all FlyMySky passengers travelling to such and such a destination” at Auckland, rather than referring to flight numbers like most others), pilots doing everything and B-N Islanders (quite nicely presented I am told) come across as more of a GA operation which is growing into an airline.
  • SunAir even more than FlyMySky is really a GA operator more than an airline. And given the history of the past couple of years I imagine they would be even less likely than FlyMySky to work with Barrier Air.
  • In terms of daily seats flown I would hazard a guess that Air Chathams accounts for at least 50% of the total for the operators you have listed. In terms of ASKs, Air Chathams would be probably more like 80%. They are really in a league of their own now - I imagine if they were looking at alliances, it would be with larger operators rather than smaller ones. They recently moved from the TakeFlite reservations system (something used by Barrier Air, FlyMySky, Sounds Air, Origin Air) to Travel Technology Interactive. They also shifted their ground handling in Auckland away from Barrier Air to their own operation.
  • Many of these operators are fairly small, and trying to work together with other such operators would bring in more in complication than it would efficiencies of scale.

At a smaller scale, there could be some things which might work well. Barrier and Sounds could work together to be a centre of excellence for single engine turbine operations. But their operations are completely disconnected so not sure what benefit a commercial partnership would bring their customers. Air Chathams and Sounds Air are probably the best fit out of the list in terms of airline operators, but again their operations are more or less disconnected - one is Wellington focused, the other Auckland focused, so not sure how much synergy there would be. Air Chathams could connect with another Auckland focused operator, but would they? As I said above, they have shifted their ground handling away from Barrier Air, and moved away from the reservations system both Barrier and FlyMySky use. Being able to swap between Metro and Caravan (and PC-12) to respond to weekly demand peaks on routes like Kaitaia and Whakatane could make sense but I’m not sure I could see it happening, whether it is Barrier or FlyMySky or Sounds.

If I was Air Chathams, I would be looking at opportunities to tie up with larger operators - I would hazard a guess that reasonable parts of their market are people travelling internationally, and people travelling on business, both of which would benefit from such a connection. As an interesting aside, if the long-standing rumours about the future of the Chatham Island service after a runway extension hold true, in a few years’ time their fleet may be Metros, Saab 340s, ATR-72s, and 737 classics. Who does that remind us of 20 years ago...

You may already be familiar with it, but there is a good blog following the regional operators in New Zealand: http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
tu2130
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 9:40 am

What will be the 14ths 787s reg be I predict it ZK-NZT
Air New Zealand. Proud to fly.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5135
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 9:54 am

tu2130 wrote:
What will be the 14ths 787s reg be I predict it ZK-NZT

-NZO has been skipped as it is allocated to a meat bomber in Queenstown.

-NZP has been skipped for fairly obvious historical reasons.

I would imagine we would get -NZR and -NZS before -NZT.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 10:07 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Interested to hear whether people think Sounds Air could expand further north than TUO?

Cheers,

C.


I'd also be interested to see how these 'mino' operators could better work together in some type of operating alliance. I mean there's

Air2There
Sounds Air
Origin Air
Air Chathams
Barrier Air
FlyMySky
Sun Air

So upper north there's Air Chathams, Barrier Air and FlyMySky, central North Island you have Sun Air and then lower North Island / Upper South there's Origin Air, Sounds Air, Air2There.

Lower south, such as CHC/DUD/ZQN/IVC is a gap. There is Stewart Air or similar but would not be attached to the network currently as it's only IVC-Stewart Island. I also, think there's a Golden Bay Air which I haven't listed and I'm sure there will be a few others out there.

Individually they don't offer much, but how what could they offer each other if they worked in cooperation and not under NZ management. Could there be any use for the Air Chat's ATR to link the likes of AKL and PPQ which connects onto NSN/PCN/BHE/WLG/NPE, for example?

Sunday dream day.

Interesting idea but not going to happen. Among other things:

  • Air2There is in liquidation.
  • Origin Air’s Jetstreams were operated by Air2There, and so they have also been pretty inactive, save from a few flights operated by Air Whanganui’s King Air (and I think one rotation operated by Air Chathams’ Metro)
  • Barrier Air and FlyMySky would never work together - if they would they would already be doing it. I would say the more likely avenue to consolidation in this particular market is one of the operators folding. Barrier Air has been working hard in recent times to distinguish themselves as a boutique airline, with a ground staff supporting the operation, whereas FlyMySky, with their laminated boarding cards, group boarding calls (they call “all FlyMySky passengers travelling to such and such a destination” at Auckland, rather than referring to flight numbers like most others), pilots doing everything and B-N Islanders (quite nicely presented I am told) come across as more of a GA operation which is growing into an airline.
  • SunAir even more than FlyMySky is really a GA operator more than an airline. And given the history of the past couple of years I imagine they would be even less likely than FlyMySky to work with Barrier Air.
  • In terms of daily seats flown I would hazard a guess that Air Chathams accounts for at least 50% of the total for the operators you have listed. In terms of ASKs, Air Chathams would be probably more like 80%. They are really in a league of their own now - I imagine if they were looking at alliances, it would be with larger operators rather than smaller ones. They recently moved from the TakeFlite reservations system (something used by Barrier Air, FlyMySky, Sounds Air, Origin Air) to Travel Technology Interactive. They also shifted their ground handling in Auckland away from Barrier Air to their own operation.
  • Many of these operators are fairly small, and trying to work together with other such operators would bring in more in complication than it would efficiencies of scale.

At a smaller scale, there could be some things which might work well. Barrier and Sounds could work together to be a centre of excellence for single engine turbine operations. But their operations are completely disconnected so not sure what benefit a commercial partnership would bring their customers. Air Chathams and Sounds Air are probably the best fit out of the list in terms of airline operators, but again their operations are more or less disconnected - one is Wellington focused, the other Auckland focused, so not sure how much synergy there would be. Air Chathams could connect with another Auckland focused operator, but would they? As I said above, they have shifted their ground handling away from Barrier Air, and moved away from the reservations system both Barrier and FlyMySky use. Being able to swap between Metro and Caravan (and PC-12) to respond to weekly demand peaks on routes like Kaitaia and Whakatane could make sense but I’m not sure I could see it happening, whether it is Barrier or FlyMySky or Sounds.

If I was Air Chathams, I would be looking at opportunities to tie up with larger operators - I would hazard a guess that reasonable parts of their market are people travelling internationally, and people travelling on business, both of which would benefit from such a connection. As an interesting aside, if the long-standing rumours about the future of the Chatham Island service after a runway extension hold true, in a few years’ time their fleet may be Metros, Saab 340s, ATR-72s, and 737 classics. Who does that remind us of 20 years ago...

You may already be familiar with it, but there is a good blog following the regional operators in New Zealand: http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com

V/F


As a quick reply, I get most if not all of these reasons. These regional carriers seem to pop up and go away frequently. It’s more a high level theory than a realistic reality.
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 8:41 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
In Longterm future maybe 3 daily 789s to LAX and they could offer something like what I said? Or UA do the third flight?

The current strategy seems to be to put all extra capacity on new destinations rather than existing ones. LAX will probably become solely point-to-point traffic (plus transit to the UK) while the airline tries to reinforce it's point of difference by opening routes to EWR, DEN, LAS etc. Besides, there are better connection points than LAX for the majority of potential destinations, so it really is better to focus growth elsewhere.


Yes you are right there and I can see that continuing with smaller 789s on some 772 routes in future ie IAH but transferring Capacity to ORD etc and NYC in future.

LHR is another one, I’d imagine it stays around at least for several more years as it’s a high yielding route in LAX-LHR itself by they could free a frame there if they really wanted to.


Just look at QF replacing some A380/744 sectors with the 787...
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 8:45 pm

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business-vid ... _id=206822

For anyone who was expecting the 77X to replace the 772. This video will disappoint you.

So will it be a 787 package or an A350 package... either one, loaded with 'Options' for more aircraft and a 77W option.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1309
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 9:28 pm

e
NZ6 wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business-video/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503079&gal_cid=1503079&gallery_id=206822

For anyone who was expecting the 77X to replace the 772. This video will disappoint you.

So will it be a 787 package or an A350 package... either one, loaded with 'Options' for more aircraft and a 77W option.

Not surprised by this little snippet of info. Re 77W, did you mean options for aircraft (either Boeing or Airbus) to eventually replace the 77W? That seems logical to me.

Also interesting in the clip was that it is the domestic business which has seen the biggest growth slowdown - the international business to a smaller extent.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4245
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 10:15 pm

NZ6 wrote:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business-video/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503079&gal_cid=1503079&gallery_id=206822

For anyone who was expecting the 77X to replace the 772. This video will disappoint you.

So will it be a 787 package or an A350 package... either one, loaded with 'Options' for more aircraft and a 77W option.

I wouldn’t read too much into that as the 77E was always going to be replaced by 787 if they went with Boeing (as the 77W would be where the 77X would be an option). The 787 is a great aircraft, it just is a compromise for ULH compared to the A350 unless Boeing has some sort of improvement package in the works (even then the A350 does have the more comfortable cabin).
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 19, 2019 10:57 pm

NZ6 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
The current strategy seems to be to put all extra capacity on new destinations rather than existing ones. LAX will probably become solely point-to-point traffic (plus transit to the UK) while the airline tries to reinforce it's point of difference by opening routes to EWR, DEN, LAS etc. Besides, there are better connection points than LAX for the majority of potential destinations, so it really is better to focus growth elsewhere.


Yes you are right there and I can see that continuing with smaller 789s on some 772 routes in future ie IAH but transferring Capacity to ORD etc and NYC in future.

LHR is another one, I’d imagine it stays around at least for several more years as it’s a high yielding route in LAX-LHR itself by they could free a frame there if they really wanted to.


Just look at QF replacing some A380/744 sectors with the 787...


Totally, while at times adding capacity ex MEL/BNE to balance the loss of seats ex SYD,

Interesting, and this is where the A350 is the perfect capacity replacement for the 777 fleet, but the 772 outside of peak season is to big on some routes. I see building frequency as more important.
 
a7ala
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 12:13 am

Strong growth in Wellington Airport's traffic over FY19. +4.6% in domestic passengers to 5.5M and +3.8% in international to 929k. I understand the domestic growth is the largest the airport has seen in 10 years.

http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=118770
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2276
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 1:13 am

I think LAX 3x daily 789 with daily SFO/IAH/maybe ORD is overkill. Still not convinced a premium heavy aircraft for NYC will work for NZ, although does work for QF.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3531
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 2:26 am

So Reuters is reporting a leak and that the 77E replacement order has gone to Boeing...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air-newzealand-aircraft/air-new-zealand-picks-boeing-for-wide-body-jet-order-sources-idUSKCN1SQ03U

Air New Zealand picks Boeing for wide-body jet order: sources

PARIS (Reuters) - Boeing Co has won a hard-fought contest to sell wide-body aircraft to Air New Zealand Ltd, beating a challenge from Europe’s Airbus, industry sources said on Monday.

The carrier, which currently operates only Boeing wide-body jets on long-haul routes and Airbus single-aisle jets on shorter ones, has been weighing a purchase of new wide-body jets to replace eight Boeing 777-200ER aircraft.

Air New Zealand, Boeing and Airbus did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The airline has said it is examining the Airbus A350 and the Boeing 777X or 787 models, with the aim of launching longer routes like Auckland-New York and Auckland-Brazil.

Air New Zealand Finance Director Jeff McDowall said in an analyst briefing in March that a decision on the aircraft purchase should be made in the next few months, but that the airline would need fewer replacement jets than originally anticipated in 2023 due to network changes.

The airline launched a two-year cost reduction program in March and deferred aircraft capital expenditures of about NZ$750 million ($490.1 million) as part of a business review.

In February, it slashed domestic fares by as much as 50 percent in a shake-up of its pricing structure in response to the slackening travel market.
come visit the south pacific
 
tu2130
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 2:46 am

I just remembered ZK-NZF will be 1 year next Monday or Tuesday Can't believe how time has passed fast? Right guys?
Air New Zealand. Proud to fly.
 
jimmyah
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:53 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 3:37 am

Motorhussy wrote:
So Reuters is reporting a leak and that the 77E replacement order has gone to Boeing...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air-newzealand-aircraft/air-new-zealand-picks-boeing-for-wide-body-jet-order-sources-idUSKCN1SQ03U

Air New Zealand picks Boeing for wide-body jet order: sources

PARIS (Reuters) - Boeing Co has won a hard-fought contest to sell wide-body aircraft to Air New Zealand Ltd, beating a challenge from Europe’s Airbus, industry sources said on Monday.

The carrier, which currently operates only Boeing wide-body jets on long-haul routes and Airbus single-aisle jets on shorter ones, has been weighing a purchase of new wide-body jets to replace eight Boeing 777-200ER aircraft.

Air New Zealand, Boeing and Airbus did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The airline has said it is examining the Airbus A350 and the Boeing 777X or 787 models, with the aim of launching longer routes like Auckland-New York and Auckland-Brazil.

Air New Zealand Finance Director Jeff McDowall said in an analyst briefing in March that a decision on the aircraft purchase should be made in the next few months, but that the airline would need fewer replacement jets than originally anticipated in 2023 due to network changes.

The airline launched a two-year cost reduction program in March and deferred aircraft capital expenditures of about NZ$750 million ($490.1 million) as part of a business review.

In February, it slashed domestic fares by as much as 50 percent in a shake-up of its pricing structure in response to the slackening travel market.


Let's be honest here, Boeing was the obvious choice. They already have 787's, and the potential 77E replacement (accounting for a bit of growth) is the 777X.
 
AsiaTravel
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:28 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 3:55 am

jimmyah wrote:
Let's be honest here, Boeing was the obvious choice. They already have 787's, and the potential 77E replacement (accounting for a bit of growth) is the 777X.


We don't really know if it is for the 777X or 787s. CFO recently said the competition was between A350s and 787s.
 
NZ6
Posts: 918
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 4:46 am

Motorhussy wrote:
So Reuters is reporting a leak and that the 77E replacement order has gone to Boeing...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air-newzealand-aircraft/air-new-zealand-picks-boeing-for-wide-body-jet-order-sources-idUSKCN1SQ03U

Air New Zealand picks Boeing for wide-body jet order: sources


hypothetically speaking... (I've done a bit of that lately haven't I ;)) it does make a lot of sense, the question is how will this order be made up, all -9s or -10s? a mix of -9 and 10? will we see a code 3...

Are we going to see a long-haul fleet of just 787's in 10 years?

jimmyah wrote:
Let's be honest here, Boeing was the obvious choice. They already have 787's, and the potential 77E replacement (accounting for a bit of growth) is the 777X.


oh come on..... : :stirthepot: I knew someone would come out and say that, even though I don't recall much input and opinion from this username on what way it would go over the last year or so.... tongue and check don't take it as an attack.

I wonder if this will push for an official announcement sooner.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 7:17 am

eta unknown wrote:
I think LAX 3x daily 789 with daily SFO/IAH/maybe ORD is overkill. Still not convinced a premium heavy aircraft for NYC will work for NZ, although does work for QF.


LAX was 3 744s most days for a while before SFO started in 2004, nearly 1200 seats daily.

3 daily LAX then SFO/IAH/ORD/EWR with a 250 seat 789 would be 1750 seats daily, some would get 275 seaters on some flights SFO:LAX anyway so say just over 1800 seats plus YVR services, that doesn’t seem to bad to me?

If they added a premium 789 it would fly some other routes, it’s incredibly efficient the 789, I’m not convinced they would only do NYC/GRU with a premium heavy frame, which imo gives them more scope if they use it on other routes, some LAX/ORD etc.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6640
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 7:19 am

AsiaTravel wrote:
jimmyah wrote:
Let's be honest here, Boeing was the obvious choice. They already have 787's, and the potential 77E replacement (accounting for a bit of growth) is the 777X.


We don't really know if it is for the 777X or 787s. CFO recently said the competition was between A350s and 787s.


We don’t really no? but the CFO said it would be the 787 or A359 I guess that rules out the 777X then? No?
 
AsiaTravel
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:28 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 7:53 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
AsiaTravel wrote:
We don't really know if it is for the 777X or 787s. CFO recently said the competition was between A350s and 787s.


We don’t really no? but the CFO said it would be the 787 or A359 I guess that rules out the 777X then? No?


Well there is nothing official for now so we don't really know.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos