HK based Cathay Pacific is cracking down and going to be strictly enforcing its rules on what crew members can take with them off planes as to items for passenger use like pens, leftover unused food like nuts packs and so on. Management apparently says they are losing many millions in HK Dollars from such 'petty theft'.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/p ... id=U507DHP
I know all airlines have such rules in part to prevent abuses as well as preventing, as with food, violations of local laws. I recall the story from decades ago of a TWA flight attendant who was disciplined for taking with her unused milk on flights into Paris off the plane with her. I wonder how common this problem is with airlines today and how much it is enforced.

Cathay Pacific flight attendants have been caught stealing food and champagne by security during random checks at Hong Kong International Airport on Saturday. Other items frequently stolen reportedly include pens, cutlery, wine glasses and wet wipes.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6949303/Cathay-Pacific-catches-flight-attendants-stealing-glasses-champagne-bread-crackdown.html

OMG call the feds!

If the removed items were to be reused on subsequent flights, then yes it is considered stealing company property and actions should be taken to prevent it.
However, if the removed items were to end up in the trash can, don't they think it's better used by someone? We waste so much food worldwide while some people are starving, it's disgusting; not to mention the pollution generated with producing, transforming and transporting that food that will be discarded.

It's a fine line to walk, and extremely difficult to enforce cleanly; but to blindly discipline crew for removing items from the plane is not the answer.

I have seen several BA captains with bags of soft drinks and booze on Heathrow T5 arrivals train. I can understand cabin crew do that, but a captain t the salary of 100,000 pounds a year is truly puzzling to me.

gunnerman wrote:

Cathay Pacific flight attendants have been caught stealing food and champagne by security during random checks at Hong Kong International Airport on Saturday. Other items frequently stolen reportedly include pens, cutlery, wine glasses and wet wipes.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6949303/Cathay-Pacific-catches-flight-attendants-stealing-glasses-champagne-bread-crackdown.html

OMG, airline cutlery! Do they use it to feed their dolls maybe?

AND...wet wipes!!!! Jeeesh!!!!

Slow news day....

Nm

chonetsao wrote:

I have seen several BA captains with bags of soft drinks and booze on Heathrow T5 arrivals train. I can understand cabin crew do that, but a captain t the salary of 100,000 pounds a year is truly puzzling to me.

BA crew are allowed to purchase miniature sodas, spirits, wine and bears at a heavily discounted price

Every FA I know (4) has thier bar stocked to the hilt with Airline mini's!

starguy wrote:

BA crew are allowed to purchase miniature sodas, spirits, wine and bears at a heavily discounted price

Well, can't blame them for wanting to save some money buying a bear, heard they are quite expensive. Just where to keep it?
SCNR

gunnerman wrote:

Cathay Pacific flight attendants have been caught stealing food and champagne by security during random checks at Hong Kong International Airport on Saturday. Other items frequently stolen reportedly include pens, cutlery, wine glasses and wet wipes.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6949303/Cathay-Pacific-catches-flight-attendants-stealing-glasses-champagne-bread-crackdown.html

If you read the article, it wasn’t random checks, management sent a letter to the crews telling them they were going to be checked as pilferage was happening

travaz wrote:

Every FA I know (4) has thier bar stocked to the hilt with Airline mini's!

It doesn't make it right, though.

The airline I work for has it as a specific policy about under what circumstances items can be removed from the aircraft. Everything that is unopened, and those that are opened but would be used in a normal service for passengers (basically excluding everything except for meals and water supplied specifically for the crew), remain the property of the company and must remain on board. Take at your own risk, basically.

It is rife across the airline industry, Yes, there should be a disciplinary response. Yes there is a needless waste, and yes there are biosecurity laws that might need adjustment, but this is not that stuff. This is the dry stores, the bar cart stock and the unused business class amenities (which does get reused). This pilfering sometimes happens before the plane has ever left the gate, the number of times I have had to order extra amenity stock for the crew from catering because they have been signed off as present and correct, but next minute is mysteriously disappeared from the business setup (before the passengers are even onboard).) . Yes, there are the absent-minded crew that move it without thinking to the wrong storage, and the engineers and ground staff are also to blame for some of the things like chocolates, amenities and leftover food after arrival.

I certainly think there should be more aircraft cabin surveillance on board for internal airline audit, for the safety of the cabin crew and passengers, for the aide of prosecutions of abusive passengers (including assault and protection against onboard thefts. If there is access to the footage by wifi/cloud here is relevance for safety too. Airports have thousands of HD cameras, for this reason, Aircraft should be no different. I'm sure just by doing this. there would be a reduction in these crew just taking it because they can do so without easily being caught.

aerorobnz wrote:

Yes there is a needless waste, and yes there are biosecurity laws that might need adjustment, but this is not that stuff. This is the dry stores, the bar cart stock and the unused business class amenities (which does get reused)

Not entirely.
The article says "even personal-sized Häagen-Dazs ice cream containers"; which falls in the category you excluded.

Based on local news they are caught because of stealing croissant and bottle water

chonetsao wrote:

I have seen several BA captains with bags of soft drinks and booze on Heathrow T5 arrivals train. I can understand cabin crew do that, but a captain t the salary of 100,000 pounds a year is truly puzzling to me.

Speaking as a former FA in the US I can confirm that pilots are some of the cheapest individuals I have ever encountered.

Zero tolerance is always good for many reasons. Customer benefits out of it and receives every bit of service/goody he or she deserves.

There are mysteriously high amounts of Ramlösa in people's fridges in the area where I live, despite it not being sold locally in convenience stores. Hmm...

It is very petty but I suppose its company policy BUT then again, you see it everywhere, even with the England's NHS you'll see nurses and doctors taking paracetamol when they have a headache to help them get through the shift.

ScorpioMC3 wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

I have seen several BA captains with bags of soft drinks and booze on Heathrow T5 arrivals train. I can understand cabin crew do that, but a captain t the salary of 100,000 pounds a year is truly puzzling to me.

Speaking as a former FA in the US I can confirm that pilots are some of the cheapest individuals I have ever encountered.

Hilarious because it's true.

I do remember a TWA F/A being fired for stealing... toilet paper!

Back when I was flying, there was the legend of a major airline captain who when building his new house, used the complimentary feminine napkins from flights, to insulate his walls. It was always a good laugh and heard it several times. I don't know if it is true or just an embellished story. Not sure they even have those items anymore in airliners.

Boss Rupert Hogg said the problem may lay in the supply chain. So how does this work? the flight is catered and then delivered to the aircraft and the crew sign to say the items have been loaded. Guess expensive stuff spirts wines and so on are in sealed carts, is that how it goes?

audian wrote:

Zero tolerance is always good for many reasons. Customer benefits out of it and receives every bit of service/goody he or she deserves.

How does the customer benefit? It sounds like the crews are taking leftover items that the customers clearly weren’t interested in or they wouldn’t have been left on board.

Some items can be repacked and reused such as Pens, wet wipes, gloves, bar stock and the like.
To me there’s a difference in taking items from the crew stores such as food, soft drinks, water should be fine and at my previous companies this has always been an “honest culture” so you take a couple of waters off the aircraft as you can justify that, the same as a sandwich, chocolate bar, soda.
The lines crossed when some crew decide they need to take 7 bottles of water, 3 sandwiches and a few sticks of coffee off for a 24hr layover.

I have seen some crew taking gloves (oven and normal), toilet roll, soap and it’s really not worth losing your job over that.

I know of some US airlines doing this as well...conducting spot checks on contracted cleaning vendors to ensure they aren't taking items off the aircraft (bottled water, blankets, etc...)

Seems petty but that does add up over time

As a former CSA ive taken tons of snacks and drinks from airplanes. Never booze though, thats a big no no.

What if the crew ate the leftover food on board? Is that stealing? Also, how does one steal ice cream? Wouldn't it melt? Are they supposed to leave it on the plane? Is the freezer always running on the plane?

I understand alcohol, flatware and dishes, and duty-free items. I also understand excessive amounts of food. But bottled water? A bag of peanuts to snack on while heading to the hotel? What if they are in a country without safe drinking water or have a long van ride to their layover?

Yes, unfortunately items are stolen by staff. PIA had an issue a few years back when staff stole the cabin trolleys! Airline knew about it, but staff claimed they were so poorly paid that it was their right.

What is unfortunate is that a lot of food simply has to be thrown away. e.g. An SK flight coming into ORD from Europe has to throw away all fresh fruit etc. before their return flight. Why not just keep it onboard. A/C is on the ground 3 hours? What damage can be caused?

OSL777FLYER wrote:

Yes, unfortunately items are stolen by staff. PIA had an issue a few years back when staff stole the cabin trolleys! Airline knew about it, but staff claimed they were so poorly paid that it was their right.

What is unfortunate is that a lot of food simply has to be thrown away. e.g. An SK flight coming into ORD from Europe has to throw away all fresh fruit etc. before their return flight. Why not just keep it onboard. A/C is on the ground 3 hours? What damage can be caused?

IIRC it’s because of government regulations to prevent the introduction of foreign or invasive species. Taking leftover food off of an international flight is can be a federal crime if the foodstuffs are considered international garbage, but it’s a very common occurrence.

I have an FA friend who used to treat us when we visited him with an insane amount of candy he took from the plane. Back in the days when my a/l issued a so called "happy meal" box with some goodies. Oh how I miss those days (I'm taling 3/4 years ago!).

Regarding bottled water, Crew are loaded a specific allocation of water bottles and catering for their own consumption INFLIGHT, same as the passengers. As far as crew staying in places with unsafe water - Since when do crew stay at hotels that don't have complimentary water bottles per day?

OB1504 wrote:

OSL777FLYER wrote:

Yes, unfortunately items are stolen by staff. PIA had an issue a few years back when staff stole the cabin trolleys! Airline knew about it, but staff claimed they were so poorly paid that it was their right.

What is unfortunate is that a lot of food simply has to be thrown away. e.g. An SK flight coming into ORD from Europe has to throw away all fresh fruit etc. before their return flight. Why not just keep it onboard. A/C is on the ground 3 hours? What damage can be caused?

IIRC it’s because of government regulations to prevent the introduction of foreign or invasive species. Taking leftover food off of an international flight is can be a federal crime if the foodstuffs are considered international garbage, but it’s a very common occurrence.

What OSL777FLYER meant was, if a plane flies, say, CDG-ORD with fruits on-board, the fruits originated from Europe. If they are disembarked in ORD, they are considered international garbage and must be treated as such.
However, if the same fruits are uneaten, why not keep them on the return ORD-CDG flight? They would never leave the plane, thus preventing potential contamination in ORD.

We waste so much food already; regulations like these just add to the waste for little-to-no reason.

I know that a few QF FA's run a program where unwanted packaged/sealed foods that passengers did not consume, like wrapped biscuits, cookies, chocolates, cereal etc... are sorted than given to those in need.

I think FA's should be able to take food that is going to be thrown out anyways, packaged food that pax did not consume and gave back - these should never be re-used and given to other pax. But for items that are intended to be re-used such as pens, that's a big no no.

chunhimlai wrote:

Based on local news they are caught because of stealing croissant and bottle water

And milk and yogurt and peanut and lemon.
Also the report say that one of the FA was trying to explain that the bottled water found in their personal baggage was privately purchased, however the FA was not able to present receipt of the purchase to prove their innocence, thus Cathay deemed the FA guilty.

chunhimlai wrote:

Based on local news they are caught because of stealing croissant and bottle water

And milk and yogurt and peanut and lemon.
Also the report say that one of the FA was trying to explain that the bottled water found in their personal baggage was privately purchased, however the FA was not able to present receipt of the purchase to prove their innocence, thus Cathay deemed the FA guilty.

chonetsao wrote:

I have seen several BA captains with bags of soft drinks and booze on Heathrow T5 arrivals train. I can understand cabin crew do that, but a captain t the salary of 100,000 pounds a year is truly puzzling to me.

That'll be crew purchase (or in the case of larger items duty free purchases), a scheme where we can pay for items onboard. That would never be taken without payment. Let's not accuse people of theft without knowing the facts!

I happen to know that some FAs take leftover, untouched food to their layover, as a way to save money, since they are not getting paid so well. So, I totally understand those FAs.

OB1504 wrote:

audian wrote:

Zero tolerance is always good for many reasons. Customer benefits out of it and receives every bit of service/goody he or she deserves.

How does the customer benefit? It sounds like the crews are taking leftover items that the customers clearly weren’t interested in or they wouldn’t have been left on board.

because eventually, lack of enforcement on pilfering of goods will and (absolutely) has resulted in : "I'm sorry, we're out of that", when crew has simply "reserved" (or plan to consume) the items for themselves.
Not a Cathay problem - happens at every carrier around the world, unless they have no meaningful service offerings .

Frequent CX passenger here!

Seriously I really can't understand how this can be an issue, except petty economics. Is it such a huge loss, considering the waste on the other side of the formula? Or is someone trying to be cheap?

These FAs are some of the most formidable service-oriented people I've ever encountered in my whole LIFE and thus some of the most respectable professional people I can think of. They are the main ingredient of the top quality embodied in the Cathay Pacific brand. They most certainly deserve more than a few ice creams and champagnes!!

Let's start a trend to take those ice creams and cutlery ourselves as passengers and give them personally to the FAs. I'm going to do so.

BA777FO wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

I have seen several BA captains with bags of soft drinks and booze on Heathrow T5 arrivals train. I can understand cabin crew do that, but a captain t the salary of 100,000 pounds a year is truly puzzling to me.

That'll be crew purchase (or in the case of larger items duty free purchases), a scheme where we can pay for items onboard. That would never be taken without payment. Let's not accuse people of theft without knowing the facts!

I don't know. But I certainly did not say it loud that how did the BA captain got this.

Once arriving in T5C, on the train, I saw a BA captain with a clear plastic bag (the one used by cleaning crew), and that contains 2 cans of Sprit, one can of Coke in those BA miniature bottles (I think 125ml?). Even if BA crew are entitled to purchase the leftovers, but the BA captain is going home, not at outstation. And 3 small cans of soft drinks? I am just puzzled from my own point of view.

chonetsao wrote:

I have seen several BA captains with bags of soft drinks and booze on Heathrow T5 arrivals train. I can understand cabin crew do that, but a captain t the salary of 100,000 pounds a year is truly puzzling to me.

I, as a Club Passenger, have been given re-corked wine from First Class on BA, where barely one glass had been taken from it. I asked crew if they are allowed to take it, and the reply was a firm no - it has to be poured down the sink. Or, evidently, given to passengers.

I have lost count the number of times I have been given miniature bottles of Castelnau "to enjoy at the hotel" when flying Club Europe.

As a BA First passenger I have also been given bottles of unopened Laurent Perrier Grand Siècle, and once a rather excellent claret.

The only other time I have had this was once on a A321T on AA in Business, when I was relocating to California. The crew member gave me a bottle of champagne to celebrate moving to the United States.

chonetsao wrote:

BA777FO wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

I have seen several BA captains with bags of soft drinks and booze on Heathrow T5 arrivals train. I can understand cabin crew do that, but a captain t the salary of 100,000 pounds a year is truly puzzling to me.

That'll be crew purchase (or in the case of larger items duty free purchases), a scheme where we can pay for items onboard. That would never be taken without payment. Let's not accuse people of theft without knowing the facts!

I don't know. But I certainly did not say it loud that how did the BA captain got this.

Once arriving in T5C, on the train, I saw a BA captain with a clear plastic bag (the one used by cleaning crew), and that contains 2 cans of Sprit, one can of Coke in those BA miniature bottles (I think 125ml?). Even if BA crew are entitled to purchase the leftovers, but the BA captain is going home, not at outstation. And 3 small cans of soft drinks? I am just puzzled from my own point of view.

It's quite common for people to buy the small wines to cook with. No point buying a whole bottle when the recipe only needs 200ml. If it's one can of spirit it may be that there was no requirement for a whole bottle, so why waste it? But crew purchase can be bought on any sector that is not intra-EU.

Other airlines may have other rules but giving an option to purchase surplus seems to be an infinitely sensible option.

WayexTDI wrote:

aerorobnz wrote:

Yes there is a needless waste, and yes there are biosecurity laws that might need adjustment, but this is not that stuff. This is the dry stores, the bar cart stock and the unused business class amenities (which does get reused)

Not entirely.
The article says "even personal-sized Häagen-Dazs ice cream containers"; which falls in the category you excluded.

So long as the items have not expired, they can be reused on subsequent flights. CX is in the right.

WayexTDI wrote:

If the removed items were to be reused on subsequent flights, then yes it is considered stealing company property and actions should be taken to prevent it.
However, if the removed items were to end up in the trash can, don't they think it's better used by someone? We waste so much food worldwide while some people are starving, it's disgusting; not to mention the pollution generated with producing, transforming and transporting that food that will be discarded.

It's a fine line to walk, and extremely difficult to enforce cleanly; but to blindly discipline crew for removing items from the plane is not the answer.

You summed it up very well. Anything that cannot be kept for future use and would otherwise be thrown in the trash is fair game and quite frankly should be encouraged to be consumed to reduce needless waste. Otherwise it is stealing. It’s not hard for a company to clearly define such a policy.

aerorobnz wrote:

Regarding bottled water, Crew are loaded a specific allocation of water bottles and catering for their own consumption INFLIGHT, same as the passengers. As far as crew staying in places with unsafe water - Since when do crew stay at hotels that don't have complimentary water bottles per day?

This very much depends on the airline. There is no specific allocation of bottled water for crew at my airline. I'm sure crew consumption is considered in the average amount of water consumed on a flight and therefore the amount requested from catering, but there isn't a cutoff of any sort. If you're thirsty you have some water. Also, in areas where tap water is not safe, we take bottled water from the aircraft. Complementary bottled water is not part of our contracts at hotels, though some offer it anyway.

TWA772LR wrote:

As a former CSA ive taken tons of snacks and drinks from airplanes. Never booze though, thats a big no no.

That's pretty much what we were also told when I was a gate agent as well. Help yourself to one soda or a snack but don't take 8 boxes of peanut M&Ms and a snack pack along with bottles of water and 6 Cokes. Alcohol was always a no-no like you said.

It also wasn't every flight either. Sometimes it was after 3-4 fights and multiple delays when you didn't have a chance to eat. The airline assumed it would happen and accounted for it. This as a ULCC carrier too, so even the cheapest of the cheap don't seem to mind it as long as it is not abused.

BA777FO wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

BA777FO wrote:

That'll be crew purchase (or in the case of larger items duty free purchases), a scheme where we can pay for items onboard. That would never be taken without payment. Let's not accuse people of theft without knowing the facts!

I don't know. But I certainly did not say it loud that how did the BA captain got this.

Once arriving in T5C, on the train, I saw a BA captain with a clear plastic bag (the one used by cleaning crew), and that contains 2 cans of Sprit, one can of Coke in those BA miniature bottles (I think 125ml?). Even if BA crew are entitled to purchase the leftovers, but the BA captain is going home, not at outstation. And 3 small cans of soft drinks? I am just puzzled from my own point of view.

It's quite common for people to buy the small wines to cook with. No point buying a whole bottle when the recipe only needs 200ml. If it's one can of spirit it may be that there was no requirement for a whole bottle, so why waste it? But crew purchase can be bought on any sector that is not intra-EU.

Other airlines may have other rules but giving an option to purchase surplus seems to be an infinitely sensible option.

Read the post again, I clearly said [contains 2 cans of Sprit(e), one can of Coke in those BA miniature bottles (I think 125ml?)]. There is no mention of wine. 3 bottle of SOFT DRINKS (2 Sprite and 1 Coke). I believe the normal can size is 330ML and BA size is something 125ml really small cans. In Costco, you can buy 30 cans of coke for £9 or less, basically £0.30 per 330ML can. I doubt BA would sell to crew at that price? (that would be £0.11 per BA miniature can in equivalent price).

[I may need to double check the Costco price on coke and I think you can get it cheaper in fact!]

chonetsao wrote:

BA777FO wrote:

chonetsao wrote:

I don't know. But I certainly did not say it loud that how did the BA captain got this.

Once arriving in T5C, on the train, I saw a BA captain with a clear plastic bag (the one used by cleaning crew), and that contains 2 cans of Sprit, one can of Coke in those BA miniature bottles (I think 125ml?). Even if BA crew are entitled to purchase the leftovers, but the BA captain is going home, not at outstation. And 3 small cans of soft drinks? I am just puzzled from my own point of view.

It's quite common for people to buy the small wines to cook with. No point buying a whole bottle when the recipe only needs 200ml. If it's one can of spirit it may be that there was no requirement for a whole bottle, so why waste it? But crew purchase can be bought on any sector that is not intra-EU.

Other airlines may have other rules but giving an option to purchase surplus seems to be an infinitely sensible option.

Read the post again, I clearly said [contains 2 cans of Sprit(e), one can of Coke in those BA miniature bottles (I think 125ml?)]. There is no mention of wine. 3 bottle of SOFT DRINKS (2 Sprite and 1 Coke). I believe the normal can size is 330ML and BA size is something 125ml really small cans. In Costco, you can buy 30 cans of coke for £9 or less, basically £0.30 per 330ML can. I doubt BA would sell to crew at that price? (that would be £0.11 per BA miniature can in equivalent price).

[I may need to double check the Costco price on coke and I think you can get it cheaper in fact!]

At least three or four years ago, crew purchase was six miniature cans for about 90p. Bottles of wine, tins of beer/cider and miniature spirits were also at heavily rebated rates. The obvious benefit to BA was that as long as crew have purchased it and had a receipt, there was no problem. If they had taken it off and no receipt, you catch people that are lifting things off of the aircraft. Today’s miniatures are tomorrow’s full bottles.