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Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:09 pm

According to this article, Virgin and Delta will launch flights to JFK and BOS from LGW from 2020. Getting in before Jetblue?

The article also states: "The partners will operate up to 18 flights a day between Gatwick and the US east coast hubs. Full flight schedules and fare information will be announced later this year." That seems like a lot - I wonder if that's a typo.

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/virg ... utes-17571
 
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enilria
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:14 pm

Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:19 pm

That's a big middle finger to B6, one week before their "big announcement"

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panamair
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:20 pm

Here's the official press release from Delta/Virgin:

https://news.delta.com/new-paths-across ... k-jfk-2020

The 18 daily flights refer to the ENTIRE UK, not just LGW, from BOS and JFK.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:25 pm

Interesting to see that they're using their newest, premium product to a traditionally "non-premium" airport (LGW).
Using a 767-400ER also adds a lot of capacity on routes that should easily be within 757 range. I guess they want to send a signal to the competition.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:27 pm

If B6 goes to LHR instead of LGW not the biggest blow, but a clear message is sent.

DL extra aggressive lately!
Last edited by gatibosgru on Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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panamair
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:35 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Interesting to see that they're using their newest, premium product to a traditionally "non-premium" airport (LGW).
Using a 767-400ER also adds a lot of capacity on routes that should easily be within 757 range. I guess they want to send a signal to the competition.


Actually, the 767-400ERs will only be used on all LHR-BOS/JFK flights, not the LGW ones. From the press release:

".....Delta also to deploy fully modernized Boeing 767-400s on all flights between London-Heathrow and Boston and New York-JFK this fall..."
 
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DL747400
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:35 pm

enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.


Should not be a shocker to anyone. It's not like DL and VS haven't known about B6 coming to the UK for a long time now.

This will also increase the pressure on AA/BA as well as Norwegian.

And with the VS infrastructure and VS staff already in place at LGW, this was an easy and very smart move all the way around. :checkmark:
Last edited by DL747400 on Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:36 pm

enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.


Delta has their informants everywhere. Of course they know.
I also shows you a difference in style. Delta the no-nonsense airline that just announces a new route without years of hinting at it, while JetBlue talks about "potentially" flying to Europe for years and keeps everything as vague as a futurity.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:39 pm

Interesting that now JFK-LGW will be flown by British, Delta and Norwegian. A few years ago nobody flew it.
 
airbazar
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:40 pm

enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.

How so? B6 is going to LHR, not LGW. On top of that I don't see DL lowering their "flat bed" fares to match B6's.
If it's a blow to anyone it'd be to DY not B6, IMO.
As it is, DL's LHR flights run at 60-70% LF from BOS even during high season. VS's LF isn't much better. I'm not sure this expansion will be good for DL to begin with.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:43 pm

So for BOS-LHR: DL has gone from B763 (W18), to A332 (S19), to B764 (W19). They're definitely ramping up capacity & service. I was on the A332 LHR-BOS on Monday and it appeared to be completely full.
Flown in: A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..55 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:45 pm

I'm interested to see what the interior of the refurbed 764s will be like. Have they started mods yet?
@DadCelo
 
1973mcg
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:45 pm

Do we know if it will be Delta or Virgin aircraft doing the Gatwick routes?
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:49 pm

GCT64 wrote:
So for BOS-LHR: DL has gone from B763 (W18), to A332 (S19), to B764 (W19). They're definitely ramping up capacity & service. I was on the A332 LHR-BOS on Monday and it appeared to be completely full.


BOSLHR for 2018 from Jan to Sep according to T-100 numbers

DL 508 80889 106085 76.25% 208.8
VS 522 111757 147900 75.56% 283.3
BA 2029 441114 541815 81.41% 267

Let's not overestimate DL/VS success here.

enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.

I don't see how this is a block of B6. NYC/BOS-LON is a huge market. Adding an extra flight or two makes very little impact.

If this is all legacies have, B6 isn't going to be troubled.
Last edited by tphuang on Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:51 pm

tphuang wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
So for BOS-LHR: DL has gone from B763 (W18), to A332 (S19), to B764 (W19). They're definitely ramping up capacity & service. I was on the A332 LHR-BOS on Monday and it appeared to be completely full.


BOSLHR for 2018 from Jan to Sep according to T-100 numbers

DL 508 80889 106085 76.25% 208.8
VS 522 111757 147900 75.56% 283.3
BA 2029 441114 541815 81.41% 267

Let's not overestimate DL/VS success here.

enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.

I don't see how this is a block of B6. NYC/BOS-LON is a huge market. Adding an extra flight or two makes very little impact.


"Little impact"? You would think that the trash yields you quoted would become even more trashy.
 
LHUSA
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:59 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.


Delta has their informants everywhere. Of course they know.
I also shows you a difference in style. Delta the no-nonsense airline that just announces a new route without years of hinting at it, while JetBlue talks about "potentially" flying to Europe for years and keeps everything as vague as a futurity.


Suppose you haven't seen the "DL to start US to BOM flight in 2019" thread? ;)
 
Boof02671
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:05 pm

What B6 LHR slots?
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:19 pm

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the stats behind this Delta quote: “Delta & its partners offer the most TATL flights from the NE US”

It surprises me a bit that DL, Virgin, AZ, and AF-KLM would have more TATL flights (vs capacity) than United at EWR + all of LH group TATL and SAS in the NE.
I guess Delta may be bigger than AA-IAG, even including PHL in the NE (the delta map looks like they exclude it).
 
AA100
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:27 pm

Interesting news.... I wonder where the 2 spare A330s will come from (assuming VS will operate the A330) ? Or will this be growth enabled by the A350s?
 
BostonBeau
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:27 pm

I for one am happy to see VS back on the BOS-LGW route. I used to take them 2-3 times a year in Premium Economy to Gatwick, because I could be off the plane and on the train to London in under 30 minutes. Try that at Heathrow on a 7 AM arrival! haha
 
bkflyguy
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:33 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
If B6 goes to LHR instead of LGW not the biggest blow, but a clear message is sent.

DL extra aggressive lately!


Taking a page from the NW playbook - NW aggressively defended its turf and would announce routes or dump capacity to drive out competitors and then pull the flight or reduce capacity once the threat was eliminated.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:35 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the stats behind this Delta quote: “Delta & its partners offer the most TATL flights from the NE US”

It surprises me a bit that DL, Virgin, AZ, and AF-KLM would have more TATL flights (vs capacity) than United at EWR + all of LH group TATL and SAS in the NE.
I guess Delta may be bigger than AA-IAG, even including PHL in the NE (the delta map looks like they exclude it).

Depends where one draws the line of NE US.
Speaking only of BOS during peak summer
AA-IAG - BA 4 daily, IB 1 daily, Level 3-4 weekly, EI 3 daily (2 DUB, 1 SNN) TOTAL: 60 weekly flights
DL, VS, AZ, AF-KLM - DL 7 daily(1 EDI, 1 LIS, 1 LHR, 1 CDG, 2 AMS, 1 DUB), VS (2 LHR + 3 weekly MAN), AZ 1 daily, AF 2 daily, KLM 3 weekly. TOTAL: 90 weekly flights
United + LH + SAS - SAS 1 daily(soon), LH 3 daily (2 FRA, 1 MUC), LX 2 daily. TOTAL: 42 weekly flights

Add in another daily frequency for BDL for EI's flight to AA-IAG.
So for New England it comes out to be
DL-VS-KL-AF-AZ : 90 weekly flights
AA-IAG: 67 weekly flights
UA + LH + SAS: 42 weekly flights
At a minimum it is true for the New England region, don't know how it will change when the NYC area is added in.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
airbazar
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:39 pm

GCT64 wrote:
So for BOS-LHR: DL has gone from B763 (W18), to A332 (S19), to B764 (W19). They're definitely ramping up capacity & service. I was on the A332 LHR-BOS on Monday and it appeared to be completely full.

DL used ot be 2x daily to LHR but it burned money so fast they reduced it to 1x. Since then they've been playing with capacity. Rumor has it that the front cabin does well and that's what sustains this flight. I'm curious to see if there will be demand for the front cabin to/from LGW.

LHUSA wrote:
Suppose you haven't seen the "DL to start US to BOM flight in 2019" thread? ;)

:rotfl:

BostonBeau wrote:
I for one am happy to see VS back on the BOS-LGW route. I used to take them 2-3 times a year in Premium Economy to Gatwick, because I could be off the plane and on the train to London in under 30 minutes. Try that at Heathrow on a 7 AM arrival! haha

I was on that flight very early (June), in their innaugural season. Still have the "tail shaped" amenity kit.
https://www.google.com/search?q=virgin+ ... yVgP59szVM:

bkflyguy wrote:
Taking a page from the NW playbook - NW aggressively defended its turf and would announce routes or dump capacity to drive out competitors and then pull the flight or reduce capacity once the threat was eliminated.

And how did that work out for NW? I haven't seen them around in a while :)
Last edited by airbazar on Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:40 pm

Didn't see this coming in all honesty. Welcome back to Gatwick, Delta Airlines (assuming it's your aircraft that will operate these routes?).

This thread in places refers to Jet Blue's Heathrow slots. Am I missing something or is still still pure speculation as opposed to something that's actually been confirmed by the airline itself?

Cheers

Ben
 
mdavies06
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:41 pm

I don't see the point in entering into LGW from BOS and NYC unless you are B6. VS does not have a short haul feeder network there and VS/DL are on O&D at LGW just like everyone else. LGW long haul market is heavy towards the leisure end for all major long haul markets, and they are better off fighting B6 from LHR, regardless of which airport B6 ends up in. VS at LGW is leisure based and god knows whether they are making money there or not (VS is not making much profit as a whole and that's with a hub at LHR which is meant to be a gold mine).
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:56 pm

Hello JB management,

You there?


This is why you don’t announce things years before you do it

This is why you don’t state your intentions for years and years Without the planes, the certification or the slots to do it

See, you guys talk a good game...other airlines play the game

you talk... they do

That is why your stock price is in the gutter, your employees are unionizing, and your operations are dead last in on time performance

Enjoy your All Hands party.

Delta didn’t give their employees a hangar party...They gave them thousands of dollars in profit sharing instead.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:58 pm

1973mcg wrote:
Do we know if it will be Delta or Virgin aircraft doing the Gatwick routes?


It makes more sense to use VS than DL.
DL would have to "open" the LGW station. Contract a handling agent, having DL signage around, contract/reserve with the airport Check-in space, apply for slots, set up the use of Fast Lane at security, parking space....
For Delta it means managing 1 more provider. For VS means just working a little more with an existing one.

It's way easier for the VS/DL JV to add 2 flights to the many existing, than to create two new ones from scrach.

Look it was BA adding LGW-JFK with a 777 (based type at LGW) instead of AA adding JFK-LGW being LGW a new station for that lonely single flight.

But maybe aircraft/crew availability can outweigh these synergies.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:11 pm

bkflyguy wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
If B6 goes to LHR instead of LGW not the biggest blow, but a clear message is sent.

DL extra aggressive lately!


Taking a page from the NW playbook - NW aggressively defended its turf and would announce routes or dump capacity to drive out competitors and then pull the flight or reduce capacity once the threat was eliminated.


Except that when NW defended its turf, it was doing it from fortress hubs. DL/VS is not dominating at either LHR/LGW or at JFK/BOS. AA/BA dominates these markets. Can you imagine BA's response if DL/VS really tries to increase their market share here? One or 2 additional flights a day do nothing to these markets. More competition is great for customers. It's too bad that legacies will keep the J fares high until when B6 comes in and undercut them significantly.

2 possibilities here
1) B6 finds enough slots for LHR. In which case, it doesn't care what happens at LGW.
2) B6 can't find enough slots at LHR, so gets a good schedule out of LGW while waiting for LHR slots. In this case, it really depends on who they partner up on the other side. If they get U2, then they will have more connectivity on London end. Even if they don't, it's not like VS has much going on at LGW.

Either way, the big issue for B6 is still slots, not an additional flight or two.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:17 pm

airbazar wrote:
enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.

How so? B6 is going to LHR, not LGW.


How do we know that? Has there been an announcement - perhaps of purchase of LHR slots you'd like to point to?
 
TC957
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:20 pm

AA100 wrote:
Interesting news.... I wonder where the 2 spare A330s will come from (assuming VS will operate the A330) ? Or will this be growth enabled by the A350s?

Pretty sure it is just that, plus the two remaining 789's should be fixed well before then.
Although the dates for the future 744 retirements haven't been announced as yet that the incoming A350's were due to replace.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:22 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the stats behind this Delta quote: “Delta & its partners offer the most TATL flights from the NE US”

It surprises me a bit that DL, Virgin, AZ, and AF-KLM would have more TATL flights (vs capacity) than United at EWR + all of LH group TATL and SAS in the NE.
I guess Delta may be bigger than AA-IAG, even including PHL in the NE (the delta map looks like they exclude it).

Depends where one draws the line of NE US.
Speaking only of BOS during peak summer
AA-IAG - BA 4 daily, IB 1 daily, Level 3-4 weekly, EI 3 daily (2 DUB, 1 SNN) TOTAL: 60 weekly flights
DL, VS, AZ, AF-KLM - DL 7 daily(1 EDI, 1 LIS, 1 LHR, 1 CDG, 2 AMS, 1 DUB), VS (2 LHR + 3 weekly MAN), AZ 1 daily, AF 2 daily, KLM 3 weekly. TOTAL: 90 weekly flights
United + LH + SAS - SAS 1 daily(soon), LH 3 daily (2 FRA, 1 MUC), LX 2 daily. TOTAL: 42 weekly flights

Add in another daily frequency for BDL for EI's flight to AA-IAG.
So for New England it comes out to be
DL-VS-KL-AF-AZ : 90 weekly flights
AA-IAG: 67 weekly flights
UA + LH + SAS: 42 weekly flights
At a minimum it is true for the New England region, don't know how it will change when the NYC area is added in.


FYI, SAS is not part of the UA TATL JV; the participant carriers in the A++ JV are UA, LH, LX, SN, OS and AC.

From the NYC area, DL+VS+AFKL+AZ still have more flights to Europe than A++. By my count for this summer, it's about 48 daily flights with the former and about 43 daily flights on A++. It's interesting that on the DL/VS/AFKL/AZ side, they really pile on the flights to the three key JV hubs (LHR, AMS, CDG) - 9x daily to LHR; 5x daily to AMS and 6x daily to CDG whereas A++ only has 4x daily to FRA, 3x daily to MUC and 4x daily to ZRH...


On the A++ front, AC has no flights from NYC, SN only has one, OS has two, LX has four and the largest European partner LH only has 3x daily to FRA from EWR/JFK and 2x daily to MUC from EWR/JFK...
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:24 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
Didn't see this coming in all honesty. Welcome back to Gatwick, Delta Airlines (assuming it's your aircraft that will operate these routes?).

This thread in places refers to Jet Blue's Heathrow slots. Am I missing something or is still pure speculation as opposed to something that's actually been confirmed by the airline itself?

Cheers

Ben
 
Josh32121
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:25 pm

Aisak wrote:
1973mcg wrote:
Do we know if it will be Delta or Virgin aircraft doing the Gatwick routes?


It makes more sense to use VS than DL.
DL would have to "open" the LGW station. Contract a handling agent, having DL signage around, contract/reserve with the airport Check-in space, apply for slots, set up the use of Fast Lane at security, parking space....
For Delta it means managing 1 more provider. For VS means just working a little more with an existing one.

It's way easier for the VS/DL JV to add 2 flights to the many existing, than to create two new ones from scrach.

Look it was BA adding LGW-JFK with a 777 (based type at LGW) instead of AA adding JFK-LGW being LGW a new station for that lonely single flight.

But maybe aircraft/crew availability can outweigh these synergies.


It sounds like it will be op'd by DL metal. They will likely just have VS handle all ground duties like they do with KL in AMS. It's not that big a deal--particularly when they're already so intertwined as it is in the existing Transatlantic JV and DL's 49% ownership stake (plus additional AF-KL stake) in VS.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:27 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the stats behind this Delta quote: “Delta & its partners offer the most TATL flights from the NE US”

It surprises me a bit that DL, Virgin, AZ, and AF-KLM would have more TATL flights (vs capacity) than United at EWR + all of LH group TATL and SAS in the NE.
I guess Delta may be bigger than AA-IAG, even including PHL in the NE (the delta map looks like they exclude it).

Depends where one draws the line of NE US.
Speaking only of BOS during peak summer
AA-IAG - BA 4 daily, IB 1 daily, Level 3-4 weekly, EI 3 daily (2 DUB, 1 SNN) TOTAL: 60 weekly flights
DL, VS, AZ, AF-KLM - DL 7 daily(1 EDI, 1 LIS, 1 LHR, 1 CDG, 2 AMS, 1 DUB), VS (2 LHR + 3 weekly MAN), AZ 1 daily, AF 2 daily, KLM 3 weekly. TOTAL: 90 weekly flights
United + LH + SAS - SAS 1 daily(soon), LH 3 daily (2 FRA, 1 MUC), LX 2 daily. TOTAL: 42 weekly flights

Add in another daily frequency for BDL for EI's flight to AA-IAG.
So for New England it comes out to be
DL-VS-KL-AF-AZ : 90 weekly flights
AA-IAG: 67 weekly flights
UA + LH + SAS: 42 weekly flights
At a minimum it is true for the New England region, don't know how it will change when the NYC area is added in.

Great point on BOS, just not sure the Delta slogan was Boston-specific or even New England-specific or they just would’ve said “most from Boston/New England TATL”.
Just seemed like saying “most in the Northeast” could easily be a stretch when you throw Star Alliance in the mix across the Entire Northeast.
But thanks for the data and great point on Boston! Just curious
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:28 pm

Aisak wrote:
1973mcg wrote:
Do we know if it will be Delta or Virgin aircraft doing the Gatwick routes?


It makes more sense to use VS than DL.
DL would have to "open" the LGW station. Contract a handling agent, having DL signage around, contract/reserve with the airport Check-in space, apply for slots, set up the use of Fast Lane at security, parking space....
For Delta it means managing 1 more provider. For VS means just working a little more with an existing one.

It's way easier for the VS/DL JV to add 2 flights to the many existing, than to create two new ones from scrach.

Look it was BA adding LGW-JFK with a 777 (based type at LGW) instead of AA adding JFK-LGW being LGW a new station for that lonely single flight.

But maybe aircraft/crew availability can outweigh these synergies.


Wouldn’t VS handle everything on the ground - it is a metal neutral JV. I don’t think this matters. I think its about where is the traffic coming from and what brand will resonate the most. If this is indeed meant to combat JetBlue, then my guess is DL metal will fly the route. Plus DL is down one flight JFK-LHR. This would add one back on DL metal.
 
aireuropef100
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:32 pm

I am pretty sure this will be operated by Delta's own metal based on the video https://news.delta.com/new-paths-across-pond-delta-virgin-atlantic-serve-london-gatwick-boston-and-new-york-jfk-2020 you will see that the new BOS-LHR daytime service shows as "via Virgin Atlantic" whilst the LGW service does not mention this. There is already Delta signage around the airport due to the codeshare with Virgin and they would just utlilise the existing Virgin check-in zone/Clubhouse/staff etc, not going to really require too much effort maybe a station manager if VS cannot manage.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:33 pm

panamair wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the stats behind this Delta quote: “Delta & its partners offer the most TATL flights from the NE US”

It surprises me a bit that DL, Virgin, AZ, and AF-KLM would have more TATL flights (vs capacity) than United at EWR + all of LH group TATL and SAS in the NE.
I guess Delta may be bigger than AA-IAG, even including PHL in the NE (the delta map looks like they exclude it).

Depends where one draws the line of NE US.
Speaking only of BOS during peak summer
AA-IAG - BA 4 daily, IB 1 daily, Level 3-4 weekly, EI 3 daily (2 DUB, 1 SNN) TOTAL: 60 weekly flights
DL, VS, AZ, AF-KLM - DL 7 daily(1 EDI, 1 LIS, 1 LHR, 1 CDG, 2 AMS, 1 DUB), VS (2 LHR + 3 weekly MAN), AZ 1 daily, AF 2 daily, KLM 3 weekly. TOTAL: 90 weekly flights
United + LH + SAS - SAS 1 daily(soon), LH 3 daily (2 FRA, 1 MUC), LX 2 daily. TOTAL: 42 weekly flights

Add in another daily frequency for BDL for EI's flight to AA-IAG.
So for New England it comes out to be
DL-VS-KL-AF-AZ : 90 weekly flights
AA-IAG: 67 weekly flights
UA + LH + SAS: 42 weekly flights
At a minimum it is true for the New England region, don't know how it will change when the NYC area is added in.


FYI, SAS is not part of the UA TATL JV; the participant carriers in the A++ JV are UA, LH, LX, SN, OS and AC.

From the NYC area, DL+VS+AFKL+AZ still have more flights to Europe than A++. By my count for this summer, it's about 48 daily flights with the former and about 43 daily flights on A++. It's interesting that on the DL/VS/AFKL/AZ side, they really pile on the flights to the three key JV hubs (LHR, AMS, CDG) - 9x daily to LHR; 5x daily to AMS and 6x daily to CDG whereas A++ only has 4x daily to FRA, 3x daily to MUC and 4x daily to ZRH...


On the A++ front, AC has no flights from NYC, SN only has one, OS has two, LX has four and the largest European partner LH only has 3x daily to FRA from EWR/JFK and 2x daily to MUC from EWR/JFK...

Thanks for the info. Very helpful. I know SAS isn’t in the JV, but the Delta comment was “Partners” not Joint Business. Regardless of the JV, SAS is certainly a partner of United.
Doesn’t appear to matter for the total numbers anyway. I assumed United was bigger TATL than Delta from NYC based on hub size alone (not including partners), guess that’s not correct.
 
33lspotter
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:39 pm

Risk-Averse Robin made to look silly again.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:44 pm

Josh32121 wrote:
They will likely just have VS handle all ground duties like they do with KL in AMS.


I wasn't aware that Virgin Atlantic had ground handling capabilities at LGW. Last time I checked it was contracted.
And even if the do, Delta would have to contract either VS or "VS handling services ltd" for these services.... Another contract to manage.

At AMS DL (from NW) has a sizeable operation. At LGW they will not. But again, it's their choice
 
flybry
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:55 pm

Is Delta now larger than United and American at Heathrow?
 
jrkmsp
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:01 pm

My understanding is it will be operated by Delta. Details to come later this year — after they see what B6 is announcing, no doubt.
 
jrkmsp
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:02 pm

flybry wrote:
Is Delta now larger than United and American at Heathrow?


No, still much smaller. But DL/VS combined are bigger than UA. But still much smaller than BA/AA.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:04 pm

Excited to see LGW expanding its reach. More capacity is welcome. This though seems suspiciously like a preemptive strike against B6. Can't wait for their announcement.

panamair wrote:
FYI, SAS is not part of the UA TATL JV; the participant carriers in the A++ JV are UA, LH, LX, SN, OS and AC.

From the NYC area, DL+VS+AFKL+AZ still have more flights to Europe than A++. By my count for this summer, it's about 48 daily flights with the former and about 43 daily flights on A++. It's interesting that on the DL/VS/AFKL/AZ side, they really pile on the flights to the three key JV hubs (LHR, AMS, CDG) - 9x daily to LHR; 5x daily to AMS and 6x daily to CDG whereas A++ only has 4x daily to FRA, 3x daily to MUC and 4x daily to ZRH...


On the A++ front, AC has no flights from NYC, SN only has one, OS has two, LX has four and the largest European partner LH only has 3x daily to FRA from EWR/JFK and 2x daily to MUC from EWR/JFK...


"Partners" throws a wrench into it whether or not to include non-JV partners. And DL was careful to say "flights", overall capacity may be less (and it's skewed towards JV hubs). Either way they're close in size, and airlines will work the numbers to make a superiority claim.
 
Blueknows
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:09 pm

Who bought cobalt airlines LHR SLOT? Ow yah went back to Virgin Atlantic. By the way does anyone not look at MAN? Also good for DL. B6 can now see your plan and respond in time. Maybe DL gets some of there own medicine. They will undersell and lose money to push other carriers out of ATL/BOS.
Screw DL
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enilria
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:15 pm

airbazar wrote:
enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.

How so? B6 is going to LHR, not LGW.

MIflyer12 wrote:
How do we know that? Has there been an announcement - perhaps of purchase of LHR slots you'd like to point to?

We don't know that. Everybody in the industry who would know (I'm going to assume airbazar doesn't meet that qualification) thinks it's STN or LGW. Sure they would like to get LHR, but I don't see it happening and neither does Delta.

It would be interesting if now B6 does STN and dares DL to switch plans while readying a complaint to DOJ.
 
stlgph
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:18 pm

The other important nugget here - the LGW arrival at BOS will probably once again take up coveted arrival space into Terminal E, really pushing international opportunities by JetBlue into severely limited arrival times, arriving at very inconvenient times, or being entirely boxed out of certain time frames.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:29 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
"Partners" throws a wrench into it whether or not to include non-JV partners. And DL was careful to say "flights", overall capacity may be less (and it's skewed towards JV hubs). Either way they're close in size, and airlines will work the numbers to make a superiority claim.


:checkmark: "Northeast" is also open to discussion... I'd assume DL is excluding the Washington area, and probably PHL (although LH's lone daily flight at PHL wouldn't change the picture much).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
airbazar
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
enilria wrote:
Nail on the head. This is a block of B6. Makes me wonder if they know B6 acquired LGW slots.

How so? B6 is going to LHR, not LGW.


How do we know that? Has there been an announcement - perhaps of purchase of LHR slots you'd like to point to?


Well when B6's CEO says things like "LHR or nothing" it makes it pretty clear doesn't it?
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... eo-453697/
 
S0Y
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Re: Delta and Virgin to launch LGW-JFK and BOS from 2020

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:34 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
I'm interested to see what the interior of the refurbed 764s will be like. Have they started mods yet?


34J, 20PE, 28Y+, 156Y
images in video https://news.delta.com/new-paths-across ... k-jfk-2020

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