Ishrion
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American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:14 am

Four days after the inaugural started, the route already seems to be abysmal. The inaugural flight on the 31st was essentially full in all classes, however, creating seat alerts/bookings show otherwise for the flights following it.

These load factors may not be 100% accurate but it should be fairly close:

April 1st: ~ 32%

Flight was upgraded to an a330-300 today.
April 2nd: ~ 35%

Tomorrow and Thursday:
April 3rd: ~ 21%

April 4th: ~54%

The only direct competition on this route is Lufthansa, which has recently upgraded from an a330 to an a350.

Haven't calculated the return flight, but April 1st had around 100 seats left while April 2nd had around 160. April 3rd(upcoming flight in a couple of hours) has ~ 200 open.

Are they profiting off of cargo? Is anyone able to truly confirm these loads?

Another thing to note is that this flight is year round.

I know it may seem a bit early to assume and the Summer season hasn't truly started but... ouch.
Last edited by Ishrion on Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:23 am

Why would AA even try to go against LH? LH has been on CLT-MUC for years and no doubt has all of the corporate contracts.
 
Judge1310
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:23 am

It's WAY too early to determine route viability. Also, the Spring Break period is pretty much over in the USA and, as such, there's the typical pax volume drop off until mid- to late-May.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:34 am

I know someone on the first flight it was totally full as was the second flight, don’t know where you are getting your numbers, I actually talked to people working the flights.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:35 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why would AA even try to go against LH? LH has been on CLT-MUC for years and no doubt has all of the corporate contracts.

Cause when we were still US we chased LH out of CLT when they flew FRA-CLT-IAH in a 747 Combi. And we chased BA out also.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:37 am

It can take years to "prove" a route. AA has target market segments (BMW and its German suppliers with facilities along the I-85 corridor, financial services around Charlotte and perhaps the Triad, etc.) for which it must first serve the city-pair so the pitch to corporate travel managers is credible.
 
LovePrunesAnet
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:40 am

Ishrion wrote:
Four days after the inaugural started, the route already seems to be abysmal. The inaugural flight on the 31st was essentially full in all classes, however, creating seat alerts/bookings show otherwise for the flights following it.

These load factors may not be 100% accurate but it should be fairly close:

April 1st: ~ 32%

Flight was upgraded to an a330-300 today.
April 2nd: ~ 35%

Tomorrow and Thursday:
April 3rd: ~ 21%

April 4th: ~54%

The only direct competition on this route is Lufthansa, which has recently upgraded from an a330 to an a350.

Haven't calculated the return flight, but April 1st had around 100 seats left while April 2nd had around 160. April 3rd(upcoming flight in a couple of hours) has ~ 200 open.

Are they profiting off of cargo? Is anyone able to truly confirm these loads?

Another thing to note is that this flight is year round.

I know it may seem a bit early to assume and the Summer season hasn't truly started but... ouch.



you going off seat maps? Cuz that is DEFINITELY not going to be accurate.
seems with you're very specific percentages you're using some very detailed data, but unless you work inside AA not sure how you'd see actual passenger numbers
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:52 am

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Four days after the inaugural started, the route already seems to be abysmal. The inaugural flight on the 31st was essentially full in all classes, however, creating seat alerts/bookings show otherwise for the flights following it.

These load factors may not be 100% accurate but it should be fairly close:

April 1st: ~ 32%

Flight was upgraded to an a330-300 today.
April 2nd: ~ 35%

Tomorrow and Thursday:
April 3rd: ~ 21%

April 4th: ~54%

The only direct competition on this route is Lufthansa, which has recently upgraded from an a330 to an a350.

Haven't calculated the return flight, but April 1st had around 100 seats left while April 2nd had around 160. April 3rd(upcoming flight in a couple of hours) has ~ 200 open.

Are they profiting off of cargo? Is anyone able to truly confirm these loads?

Another thing to note is that this flight is year round.

I know it may seem a bit early to assume and the Summer season hasn't truly started but... ouch.



you going off seat maps? Cuz that is DEFINITELY not going to be accurate.
seems with you're very specific percentages you're using some very detailed data, but unless you work inside AA not sure how you'd see actual passenger numbers


It's *usually* fairly accurate. I've took a couple of maps and compared them to the final flight, and they've been precise. I'm not sure where Seat Alerts get their data, but it's most likely directly from availability bookings.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:53 am

AA would have to practically give the seats away for me to even consider them. A nice LH A350 vs a clapped out LUS A333. Not a difficult choice.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:02 am

Way too early to call the route a success or failure. The flight hasn't even operated for a full week yet... it needs time to mature. You also have to factor in that it's not even peak season yet. I would expect loads to shoot up by this summer.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the new transatlantic flights had similar loads this week. FWIW, BA's inaugural LHR-PIT flight this evening had a 55% LF.
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oc2dc
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:09 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
AA would have to practically give the seats away for me to even consider them. A nice LH A350 vs a clapped out LUS A333. Not a difficult choice.


It's typically an A332. It looks like that was a one off swap for the A333. So, slightly better, but not great.

Also, the return flight from MUC appears to have better numbers than the outbound at this time. Must be growing pains. They will do fine.
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:15 am

oc2dc wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
AA would have to practically give the seats away for me to even consider them. A nice LH A350 vs a clapped out LUS A333. Not a difficult choice.


It's typically an A332. It looks like that was a one off swap for the A333. So, slightly better, but not great.

Also, the return flight from MUC appears to have better numbers than the outbound at this time. Must be growing pains. They will do fine.


Looks like April 3rd's flight is scheduled to be an A333 again.
 
flyguy89
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:15 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why would AA even try to go against LH? LH has been on CLT-MUC for years and no doubt has all of the corporate contracts.

Why would AA NOT challenge a major international competitor at their fortress hub? You expect them to sit back and let a competitor take bookings from them in a market they otherwise dominate? I'm only surprised they didn't start the route sooner.

And yeah, seat maps? Not accurate.
 
strfyr51
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:57 am

Judge1310 wrote:
It's WAY too early to determine route viability. Also, the Spring Break period is pretty much over in the USA and, as such, there's the typical pax volume drop off until mid- to late-May.



I'm almost sure American is routing passengers via CLT to fill that light. Those guys didn't just fall off the Turnip Truck!
 
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airportugal310
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:17 am

Anybody who thinks a route is a home run right from the bat is delusional...routes take time to mature. That's a fact you can take to the bank
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TTailedTiger
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:49 am

airportugal310 wrote:
Anybody who thinks a route is a home run right from the bat is delusional...routes take time to mature. That's a fact you can take to the bank


But for how long? Look at how quickly Delta axed SEA-KIX.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:55 am

Ishrion wrote:
Four days after the inaugural started, the route already seems to be abysmal.


Four days? Oh man, that clinches it - AA better pull the plug, stat!! :lol:

This isn't like network television where bad ratings in the first few episodes equals cancelling the series. Routes can and do take quite some time to mature, especially between business markets where you have to develop the corporate contracts on both ends.

And as was mentioned earlier, if you're looking at online seat maps to determine flight loads, your numbers are going to be WILDLY inaccurate.
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flyboy7974
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:23 am

You’re all missing the greatest drive..... our corporate clients dictated the swap and desire for the route to be switched to CLT.

The corporate contracts & their desire to have connections through the CLT hub eventually drove the change. Why connect through PHL to one Eagle Flight that most likely cancels on an IFR day when CLT might offer numerous flights and connections for those clients. While I am PHL based and disappointed by losing MUC, I understand the economics.

On the flip, with that & playing devils advocate, I am also told early bookings through CLT are abysmal & AA would like to return it to PHL. There are many other routes that AA has waiting for PHL but unfortunately, once again, limited and zero gate space eliminates those for now.
 
LGAviation
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:12 am

No matter how CLT is doing, AA will retain some sort of link to MUC but CLT will be difficult when I assume the BMW contract for MUC/Spartanburg would have to be with Lufthansa and AA brand recognition in Germany is fairly poor from all those years that it took them to pull the old 767s out of the country. O&D between CLT and MUC other than BMW (which is why the LH flight is one of the few to be offered only out of MUC and not FRA) should be low and it's merely a matter of finding the most convenient entry point in the US and I am surprised that the answer for MUC was CLT and not PHL when LH only competes on FRA-PHL.
I have also definitely noted when booking AA flights out of FRA recently, that AA really tries to route you through CLT which I found a little annoying given that I need to go to rural NE but they definitely did not want to see you going through LHR or DUB and PHL which would've been so much quicker. The only reason I'll fly AA is that they were half the price of the LH/UA via IAD or DL via DTW options. It's so sad to see the downsizing of FRA from 2015 where I was still on a FRA-MIA flight (which sadly though was still one of the older 767s and suffered from a diversion and an overnight delay of my onward flight) and PHL, CLT and DFW were still running but I guess I couldve expected the downsizing of FRA following the consolidation of the LUS routes which used to connect and not compete that much with LH.
I really hope AA will come back to Germany (outside Berlin) with something that doesnt require backtracking to the Northeast as badly as CLT and DFW do.
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American332
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:15 am

Well unless any of us have actual passenger numbers, we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't see both Lufthansa and American surviving on CLT-MUC. There is definitely a local market for CLT-MUC, as shown by LH staying on the route even after US left Star. However, double daily Munich probably won't survive, it wasn't even 2x daily when US was in Star. One airline will probably pull the plug and I think it will be Lufthansa, seeing as AA can justify the route with connections. If LH pulls out of CLT, then CLT-MUC will work better for American. Although, I'm sure many German business travelers, e.g. BMW people, would prefer LH and those contracts may help LH stick.

It was surprising that AA pulled PHL-MUC and transferred it to CLT, there has to be more than corporate contracts (even if they play a part). I'm also playing devils advocate: AA did not seem able to pull Germany off from Philly, Frankfurt was also cut yet CLT has both FRA and MUC year-round now. I'd be surprised if AA would want to move it back to PHL as of now, if early bookings had been abysmal then they might have moved it to a seasonal flight etc similar to what they did with LIS, BRU and MAN in 2014.

It will be interesting to watch what happens.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:30 am

Ishrion wrote:
LovePrunesAnet wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Four days after the inaugural started, the route already seems to be abysmal. The inaugural flight on the 31st was essentially full in all classes, however, creating seat alerts/bookings show otherwise for the flights following it.

These load factors may not be 100% accurate but it should be fairly close:

April 1st: ~ 32%

Flight was upgraded to an a330-300 today.
April 2nd: ~ 35%

Tomorrow and Thursday:
April 3rd: ~ 21%

April 4th: ~54%

The only direct competition on this route is Lufthansa, which has recently upgraded from an a330 to an a350.

Haven't calculated the return flight, but April 1st had around 100 seats left while April 2nd had around 160. April 3rd(upcoming flight in a couple of hours) has ~ 200 open.

Are they profiting off of cargo? Is anyone able to truly confirm these loads?

Another thing to note is that this flight is year round.

I know it may seem a bit early to assume and the Summer season hasn't truly started but... ouch.



you going off seat maps? Cuz that is DEFINITELY not going to be accurate.
seems with you're very specific percentages you're using some very detailed data, but unless you work inside AA not sure how you'd see actual passenger numbers


It's *usually* fairly accurate. I've took a couple of maps and compared them to the final flight, and they've been precise. I'm not sure where Seat Alerts get their data, but it's most likely directly from availability bookings.


Not really. With the advent of basic economy (no advance seat request), the seat maps have become fairly useless for guessing loads...
...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:48 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Not really. With the advent of basic economy (no advance seat request), the seat maps have become fairly useless for guessing loads...
...


Any 'full service' carrier selling 30+ percent of its seats on a long-haul in Basic Economy has a big yield problem and the route may be toast, anyway.
 
BA777FO
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:58 am

Runway28L wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the new transatlantic flights had similar loads this week. FWIW, BA's inaugural LHR-PIT flight this evening had a 55% LF.


To be fair, the LHR-PIT flight was full in J and W, although the next few days look average at best.

That said, LHR-CHS is just about full - onky 2x week though. Looks like it'll be success.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:16 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Not really. With the advent of basic economy (no advance seat request), the seat maps have become fairly useless for guessing loads...
...


Any 'full service' carrier selling 30+ percent of its seats on a long-haul in Basic Economy has a big yield problem and the route may be toast, anyway.


Not really, there are different levels of basic economy. Almost every regular fare has a corresponding basic economy fare and the basic economy fares are essentially what the regular fares were last year...
 
bevan7
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:22 am

The seat maps are only on reserved seats not numbers booked. If people don't check in/reserve a seat then they are not shown
 
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DLHAM
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:37 am

Maybe American could "try" ORD-HAM next year. In 2018 around 15.300 passengers (+9% compared to 2017, one way) travelled from HAM to ORD, thats slighty more than from DUS and much more than from Berlin.
This pretty high local traffic (25% of passengers travelling for Business reasons) and the numerous connecting opportunities in ORD should make a summer seasonal 787-8 work fine. And the best: no other competing direct flights to the US, so no fighting against LH on a route like MUC-CLT, where only one can survive most probably.

I know PHL would be more realistic as AA builds PHL as their primary TATL hub, but there is much less local traffic between HAM and PHL (but still 40% more than BER-PHL!).
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many321
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:18 pm

If you truly want to see if this flight has good LF I'd be checking the outbound and inbound flights for several months. That will reveal of the route is ok or not. Nothing wrong with checking seat maps or doing a expert flyer seat check. I've being doing the same with CI ONT-TPE and then check their CAA statistics for every month which concur with what I've noticed on Expert Flyer. Plus, if you want the quickest numbers for the inbound flights I'd check CBP airport wait times page since it gives you the exact number of passengers they've checked out at x hour. So for this flight, just search it's arrival time at CLT, and from there it should be easy unless there's another international arriving at the same time.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:20 pm

Checking seat maps isn’t true data, so this thread is meaningless.
 
sagechan
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:25 pm

Just looked at loads and while CLT-MUC is a bit low for the next week or so (though not as low as OP suggests) the return MUC-CLT is booked very well in same period. Just way to early to evaluate, plus of course no yield data.
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LJ
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:36 pm

American332 wrote:
I don't see both Lufthansa and American surviving on CLT-MUC. There is definitely a local market for CLT-MUC, as shown by LH staying on the route even after US left Star. However, double daily Munich probably won't survive, it wasn't even 2x daily when US was in Star. One airline will probably pull the plug and I think it will be Lufthansa, seeing as AA can justify the route with connections.


However, LH has connections ex MUC, which AA doesn't have. Thus it works both ways.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:38 pm

Today for instance, the flight has 189 available seats, 97 confirmed passengers. For the next ten days it averages about 100 available seats except for Friday’s which is around 30-40.

This is fairly typical for this time of year. Spring break is basically over so the east bound flights have lighter loads and the west bounds usually have heavy loads through the first week in April then will drop off.
 
csweet
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:52 pm

*4 days into route* a.net deems an utter failure lmao, i love this site.
 
miaami
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:25 pm

PHX-LHR seems to be starting off slow too, but they changed it from seasonal to year round so future bookings must look good.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:39 pm

BA777FO wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the new transatlantic flights had similar loads this week. FWIW, BA's inaugural LHR-PIT flight this evening had a 55% LF.


To be fair, the LHR-PIT flight was full in J and W, although the next few days look average at best.

That said, LHR-CHS is just about full - onky 2x week though. Looks like it'll be success.


I think the point of sale for LHR-CHS is mostly on the UK side (for CHS's history/beaches/golf/etc) whereas LHR-PIT point of sale is mostly on the PIT end (to visit London and Europe). So that could explain why the first few weeks of LHR-PIT are light westbound.

Hopefully both new routes will be a big success.
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Varsity1
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:42 pm

Looked through the loads. Y is weak during the week M-TH, while stronger Fridays and very strong Saturdays. J bookings are strong across the board.

I would expect this to go to an A333 when possible to accommodate more J seats, which are carrying the flight.
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Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:52 pm

Just clarifying, I made this because the loads look me by surprise and wasn’t expecting a route like this to be performing like this.

Yes, it’ll probably perform better in the coming months as well other AA routes(ORD-LHR is around half full give or take?)
 
Varsity1
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:55 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Just clarifying, I made this because the loads look me by surprise and wasn’t expecting a route like this to be performing like this.

Yes, it’ll probably perform better in the coming months as well other AA routes(ORD-LHR is around half full give or take?)


You should clarify the Y loads. J is booked out with paid pax. Only 2-4 J seats available.
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Pi7472000
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:02 pm

AA service is so awful it is not surprising! They have bare bones service in and unfriendly staff! I would pick Lufthansa any day to Europe over AA. Fares have been really cheap when I looked on this route for AA, but I would pay more to fly Lufthansa to be treated with some respect.
 
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tlecam
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:08 pm

Seat assignments as a gauge for LF in economy is not particularly helpful, especially with the introduction of basic economy fares. For a variety of reasons, there are a lot of seat assignments that happen within a few hours of the flights departing.
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Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:08 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Just clarifying, I made this because the loads look me by surprise and wasn’t expecting a route like this to be performing like this.

Yes, it’ll probably perform better in the coming months as well other AA routes(ORD-LHR is around half full give or take?)


You should clarify the Y loads. J is booked out with paid pax. Only 2-4 J seats available.


As far as I know, today’s flight has 9/28 booked in business. Usually it should be /20 since today got upgauged to an a333 again.

In Economy, around 84 is booked, or 31%.

Checking Saturday, it’s full in J.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:20 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
You’re all missing the greatest drive..... our corporate clients dictated the swap and desire for the route to be switched to CLT.

The corporate contracts & their desire to have connections through the CLT hub eventually drove the change. Why connect through PHL to one Eagle Flight that most likely cancels on an IFR day when CLT might offer numerous flights and connections for those clients. While I am PHL based and disappointed by losing MUC, I understand the economics.

On the flip, with that & playing devils advocate, I am also told early bookings through CLT are abysmal & AA would like to return it to PHL. There are many other routes that AA has waiting for PHL but unfortunately, once again, limited and zero gate space eliminates those for now.


I think before AA PHL-MUC route left the LF was around 70% according that posted the numbers in the PHL thread. I think the AA CLT-MUC will stay because AA wants to experiment with new TATL routes from PHL. I'm curious if a second international terminal should be built.

Also its crazy to think that route that is not even run a week yet can be considered a failure. CLT will continue to host the stable TATL flights. CLT-MUC will do fine on the long run.
 
JetBlueCLT
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:55 pm

Just end the route now, shut down CLT-Transatlantic, and just de hub CLT as well! LOL

This site is more dramatic about things than the real housewives of Atlanta. Calm down folks, it’s been 4 days.
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airbazar
Posts: 9436
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:11 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Why would AA NOT challenge a major international competitor at their fortress hub? You expect them to sit back and let a competitor take bookings from them in a market they otherwise dominate? I'm only surprised they didn't start the route sooner.

I think you have it backwards. The point of sale is predominantly in Germany, hence why LH has been flying this route for so many years. So AA is challenging LH at their hub (MUC). Factor in AA's notoriously poor presence in Germany and it's not hard to imagine this route not lasting very long for AA. We shall see.
 
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OzarkD9S
Posts: 5319
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:37 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:

This is fairly typical for this time of year. Spring break is basically over so the east bound flights have lighter loads and the west bounds usually have heavy loads through the first week in April then will drop off.


This is the second time Spring Break was mentioned in this thread. I have to wonder, who the heck goes to Europe on Spring Break? Don't like 90% of Spring Breakers go to a beach somewhere? Lovely as Munich is...not a place I would consider for a beach vacation. Or Spring Break.
C'mon BA, bring your tail to STL. :airplane:
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2522
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Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Why would AA NOT challenge a major international competitor at their fortress hub? You expect them to sit back and let a competitor take bookings from them in a market they otherwise dominate? I'm only surprised they didn't start the route sooner.

I think you have it backwards. The point of sale is predominantly in Germany, hence why LH has been flying this route for so many years. So AA is challenging LH at their hub (MUC). Factor in AA's notoriously poor presence in Germany and it's not hard to imagine this route not lasting very long for AA. We shall see.

AA dominates traffic both into and out of Charlotte. American is 3x the size of Lufthansa so I suspect they'll be able to tolerate loss-making on the route much longer than LH will care to.
 
LGAviation
Posts: 851
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:11 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Why would AA NOT challenge a major international competitor at their fortress hub? You expect them to sit back and let a competitor take bookings from them in a market they otherwise dominate? I'm only surprised they didn't start the route sooner.

I think you have it backwards. The point of sale is predominantly in Germany, hence why LH has been flying this route for so many years. So AA is challenging LH at their hub (MUC). Factor in AA's notoriously poor presence in Germany and it's not hard to imagine this route not lasting very long for AA. We shall see.

AA dominates traffic both into and out of Charlotte. American is 3x the size of Lufthansa so I suspect they'll be able to tolerate loss-making on the route much longer than LH will care to.


By what metric is AA 3x the size. Revenuewise, AA isnt even and and a half times the size of LH and in terms of emplyoees they have less than LH. Plus, LH will not give up on MUC.

OzarkD9S wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:

This is fairly typical for this time of year. Spring break is basically over so the east bound flights have lighter loads and the west bounds usually have heavy loads through the first week in April then will drop off.


This is the second time Spring Break was mentioned in this thread. I have to wonder, who the heck goes to Europe on Spring Break? Don't like 90% of Spring Breakers go to a beach somewhere? Lovely as Munich is...not a place I would consider for a beach vacation. Or Spring Break.


Quite a few students are going to Europe, way cheaper in Spring! Just had some over this week.
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OzarkD9S
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:14 pm

LGAviation wrote:

Quite a few students are going to Europe, way cheaper in Spring! Just had some over this week.


Interesting, I must be getting old! :old:
C'mon BA, bring your tail to STL. :airplane:
 
Antarius
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:23 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
AA would have to practically give the seats away for me to even consider them. A nice LH A350 vs a clapped out LUS A333. Not a difficult choice.


You prefer 2-2-2 to 1-2-1?

Go for it. The a332/333 are perfectly nice planes. Now, if it was an AA 763, different story.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
LGAviation
Posts: 851
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:26 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
LGAviation wrote:

Quite a few students are going to Europe, way cheaper in Spring! Just had some over this week.


Interesting, I must be getting old! :old:


Or I must be living in a bubble :D No, in all honesty, you're average American college kid doesnt go to Europe for Spring Break but some do! But even though our friend actually went on AA, I suspect the majority of spring break travelers to Europe would go on DY or the likes and are not the target group for the CLT flight. Additionally, I have a strong feeling a lot of them would go to school in the Northeast and wouldnt like the backtracking to CLT either.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
runway23
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: American Airlines Charlotte-Munich: Already Failing?

Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:34 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:

This is fairly typical for this time of year. Spring break is basically over so the east bound flights have lighter loads and the west bounds usually have heavy loads through the first week in April then will drop off.


This is the second time Spring Break was mentioned in this thread. I have to wonder, who the heck goes to Europe on Spring Break? Don't like 90% of Spring Breakers go to a beach somewhere? Lovely as Munich is...not a place I would consider for a beach vacation. Or Spring Break.


Yet nobody has mentioned that Easter is just around the corner and actually contributes to selling more seats on transatlantic markets than spring break does. In a little over a week the flights will be going out full from Europe.

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