Turkish Aviation April 2019

TK787 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:32 pm

gokmengs wrote:
The Moment TK787 have been waiting for. 787’s will fly to AYT daily for training purposes. Who wants to book the inaugural? tweet in English link in tweet in Romanian: https://twitter.com/AeronewsRO/status/1 ... 1455654912

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I will do it if I’m in Istanbul. Don’t know yet.

HeyTK · Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:17 pm

I will not make the first flight but I will try to book for the last week week of july. Cant wait for my first 787 flight!

TK operated its first flight to Marrakesch today.

aldrigsomandre · Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:41 pm

https://mundo.sputniknews.com/america-l ... a-bolivia/

According to this article, Bolivian President Evo Morales has stated that Turkish Airlines will fly to Viru Viru International Airport in Bolivia, in the first quarter of 2020.

Let's see how this will pan out.

Elshad · Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:06 pm

HeyTK wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
Another topic, just for change
Don't you think it's time for PC to review their livery?

Yes! I want Pegasus on the fuselage instead of Flypgs.com and a new letter font on the tail and more dynamic coloring on the livery!

Agree. Websites on liveries is very outdated and reminds me of the late 90s / early 2000s.

Interestingly, pegasusairlines.com is registered to someone in İzmit, so maybe they could pay to get that domain? It would be better than flypgs.com

AAEK192 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:08 pm

gokmengs wrote:
The Moment TK787 have been waiting for. 787’s will fly to AYT daily for training purposes. Who wants to book the inaugural? tweet in English link in tweet in Romanian: https://twitter.com/AeronewsRO/status/1 ... 1455654912

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Won't the 787's also fly to DPS?

yycdel · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:40 am

Any news for YVR

ankaraflyjet · Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:43 pm

yycdel wrote:
Any news for YVR

Sorry to say YVR IST is not going to happen soon as the bilateral Air Service Agreement is far from a new amendment. TK blew the opportunity when Canadian CAA offered them 3 slots pw but TK insisted on a dialy rotaiton and the negotiations collapsed. At that time AC served YYZ IST daily and it is axed as you all know. I think before AC returns to Turkey the chances are too little for TK to get IST YVR slots.

ankaraflyjet · Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:48 pm

QR upgraded DOH ESB DOH to all wide body operation since last week. A mix of 330 and 777 is doing the route 6 times weekly. QR is the third all wide body operator to ESB after Saudia (300 and 747) and Mahan Air (A310 and A340).

Great to see big birds at ESB, surely showing the growing international pax potential despite the recent decrease in ovrall pax so far this year at ESB.

Blerg · Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:26 pm

Doesn't AC cooperate with EK in DXB? Why can't they make a similar agreement with TK? They could easily operate YVR flights and I am sure a new ASA could be signed .

ankaraflyjet · Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:42 pm

Blerg wrote:
Doesn't AC cooperate with EK in DXB? Why can't they make a similar agreement with TK? They could easily operate YVR flights and I am sure a new ASA could be signed .

There is no deal between ME3 and AC, AC is a founding member of *A and Canada does not let ME3 to fly to more than one destination in Canada. QR serves Montreal only, Emirates and Etihad serve Toronto only. YVR is a very protected market and other than Far East and North American carriers the only foreign airlines are LH to MUC and FRA, BA to LHR, AF to CDG, KL to AMS. There are seasonal operators like Condor, Virgin and Edelweis to Germany, UK and Zurich, that is it. If TK steps in it will be the first of its kind actually, we will see...

Blerg · Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:36 am

ankaraflyjet wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Doesn't AC cooperate with EK in DXB? Why can't they make a similar agreement with TK? They could easily operate YVR flights and I am sure a new ASA could be signed .

There is no deal between ME3 and AC, AC is a founding member of *A and Canada does not let ME3 to fly to more than one destination in Canada. QR serves Montreal only, Emirates and Etihad serve Toronto only. YVR is a very protected market and other than Far East and North American carriers the only foreign airlines are LH to MUC and FRA, BA to LHR, AF to CDG, KL to AMS. There are seasonal operators like Condor, Virgin and Edelweis to Germany, UK and Zurich, that is it. If TK steps in it will be the first of its kind actually, we will see...

Actually, seems like AC and EY code-share: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... tners.html

So that means AC's DXB flights don't rely on Emirates' onward connections, interesting.

ankaraflyjet · Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:29 am

I think there should be flights between Greek isles and Bodrum during the summer, small narrow body a/c would be ideal. Bodrum Mykonos in particular, wonder why Atlas Global or Aegean does not do that.

TK787 · Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:21 am

TK Miles and Smiles members that purchase a ticket departing/arriving IST by April 30th and fly by the end of May earn 2 x Status miles up to 5000 miles:
https://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-tr/k ... kbW78KKoUg

TK787 · Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:38 pm

I was looking at tickets JFK-IST for next week and on April 25th, all 3 flights are operated by A330-300s. Where are the 77Ws??

mafaky · Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:22 pm

TK787 wrote:
I was looking at tickets JFK-IST for next week and on April 25th, all 3 flights are operated by A330-300s. Where are the 77Ws??

I don't have solid evidence: but the first 12 77Ws that entered the fleet (ones with the Comfort Class cabins) should be undergoing long time-taking (10-12 weeks) D-checks, nowadays.

dozerman · Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:57 pm

mafaky wrote:
TK787 wrote:
I was looking at tickets JFK-IST for next week and on April 25th, all 3 flights are operated by A330-300s. Where are the 77Ws??

I don't have solid evidence: but the first 12 77Ws that entered the fleet (ones with the Comfort Class cabins) should be undergoing long time-taking (10-12 weeks) D-checks, nowadays.

The newer 777s seem to be undergoing some maintenance as well. TC-LJA just flew ISL-IST, after staying on the ground since March 14.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lja

pune · Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:12 am

Can anybody do a quick comparison between the new Istanbul Airport and the Qatar Airport ? While I'm sure the new Airport is larger, I just wanna know how much larger, how many Qatar Airports could fit into the new Airport at this point in time ?

HeyTK · Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:53 am

AtlasGlobal is soon taking delivery of their 2nd A330 and are awaiting 2 more in the coming months. They are also expected to take another 4 of TK after the summer season. The total fleet of A330 is set to be 10 aircraft. They are aiming to use these aircraft for the Chinese market.

Source:
http://www.kokpit.aero/atlasglobal-a330-plani

Yakamoz · Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:01 am

HeyTK wrote:
AtlasGlobal is soon taking delivery of their 2nd A330 and are awaiting 2 more in the coming months. They are also expected to take another 4 of TK after the summer season. The total fleet of A330 is set to be 10 aircraft. They are aiming to use these aircraft for the Chinese market.

Source:
http://www.kokpit.aero/atlasglobal-a330-plani

Another candidate like Onur Air which is dreaming about Chinese market. Why the hell they cut the fleet last year by half stopped nearly scheduled flights and now getting A330s?
There is mentioned they will get 4 A330s of TK, due to lease end. According to TK there is no planned leave of A330s..

TK787 · Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:18 am

pune wrote:
Can anybody do a quick comparison between the new Istanbul Airport and the Qatar Airport ? While I'm sure the new Airport is larger, I just wanna know how much larger, how many Qatar Airports could fit into the new Airport at this point in time ?

Just a quick google search about the overall size and the terminal size; IST is 3 times the size in both area and terminal size compared to DOH.

ist2014 · Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:48 pm

please note that as per TK presentation, # of A332s will be reduced from 18 to 13 in 2020, so I expect lease ned of 5 A332s (perhaps ex TAM birds)
On the other hand, as per TK presentation # of A333 will be increased to 39 from 37 at the end of 2019, so I do not know how, but seems TK will lease 2 more 333s
What makes me worry is potential decline of demand for 2019, Q1 numbers were not so good

mafaky · Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:51 pm

ist2014 wrote:
please note that as per TK presentation, # of A332s will be reduced from 18 to 13 in 2020, so I expect lease ned of 5 A332s (perhaps ex TAM birds)
On the other hand, as per TK presentation # of A333 will be increased to 39 from 37 at the end of 2019, so I do not know how, but seems TK will lease 2 more 333s
What makes me worry is potential decline of demand for 2019, Q1 numbers were not so good

The 5 332 birds to leave TK fleet by the end of (or during) 2020 should be:
(*) the 3 ex-Jetway dry leased frames (TC-JIL/JIM/JIN),
(*) the 2 DAE Capital leased frames (TC-LNA/LNB).

But if Atlas will be getting 4 TK 332 birds, these have to come from the ex-TAM fleet of 8 frames, which are dry leased from AerCap and have undergone some cabin modifications (previously 2 of these went out to Russian Nordwind and later returned after a year's utilisation; same scenarion can be carried out for Atlas...).

Increase for 33 fleet: a mystery for me, unless there's a misprinting there at TK's table. AFAIK, one frame (the one leased from Afriqiyah, the TC-JOM) should be returned by mid 2023...). The ex-Skymark ones (7 frames) should be following later; if I'm not wrong the were leased for a period of 7 years, respectively.

HeyTK · Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:02 pm

Pegasus announced 2 new destinations starting in the summer. To Casablanca in Marocco and Eindhoven, which will be their 3rd route to the Netherlands.

Blerg · Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:21 pm

With 13 A332 left in the fleet, what will be their main role in TK? Could we see them reconfigured for European and other regional destinations where there will be less premium demand and more economy class seats or will they eventually be all phased out?

A321Lufthansa · Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:00 pm

mafaky wrote:
ist2014 wrote:
please note that as per TK presentation, # of A332s will be reduced from 18 to 13 in 2020, so I expect lease ned of 5 A332s (perhaps ex TAM birds)
On the other hand, as per TK presentation # of A333 will be increased to 39 from 37 at the end of 2019, so I do not know how, but seems TK will lease 2 more 333s
What makes me worry is potential decline of demand for 2019, Q1 numbers were not so good

The 5 332 birds to leave TK fleet by the end of (or during) 2020 should be:
(*) the 3 ex-Jetway dry leased frames (TC-JIL/JIM/JIN),
(*) the 2 DAE Capital leased frames (TC-LNA/LNB).

But if Atlas will be getting 4 TK 332 birds, these have to come from the ex-TAM fleet of 8 frames, which are dry leased from AerCap and have undergone some cabin modifications (previously 2 of these went out to Russian Nordwind and later returned after a year's utilisation; same scenarion can be carried out for Atlas...).

Increase for 33 fleet: a mystery for me, unless there's a misprinting there at TK's table. AFAIK, one frame (the one leased from Afriqiyah, the TC-JOM) should be returned by mid 2023...). The ex-Skymark ones (7 frames) should be following later; if I'm not wrong the were leased for a period of 7 years, respectively.

What could happen with ex-Jet Airways A332s after 9W collapse?

TK787 · Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:48 pm

Here is my latest rant concerning TK; where do they come up with stuff like this???
Elite Plus members get two free Y to C upgrade annually. I've been using them for the last 5 years. In the past, you call TK, they look up if there is upgradeable space available, then you buy your ticket, then you upgrade using the voucher. Today, they tell me that I have to purchase a ticket and with the ticket number they will be able to tell me if there is any seats available to upgrade. Without a ticket number no way of telling if there are voucher available seats inside the total number of J seats. So you buy your ticket, and they say no available J upgrades, how do you ever get to use them??? Any ideas??

OA260 · Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:51 pm

TK787 wrote:
Here is my latest rant concerning TK; where do they come up with stuff like this???
Elite Plus members get two free Y to C upgrade annually. I've been using them for the last 5 years. In the past, you call TK, they look up if there is upgradeable space available, then you buy your ticket, then you upgrade using the voucher. Today, they tell me that I have to purchase a ticket and with the ticket number they will be able to tell me if there is any seats available to upgrade. Without a ticket number no way of telling if there are voucher available seats inside the total number of J seats. So you buy your ticket, and they say no available J upgrades, how do you ever get to use them??? Any ideas??

Sounds a bit crazy to me. Never had that before with other airlines. Maybe you just got someone difficult? Call back and try again and see if the same thing is said.

LAXintl · Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:12 pm

TK787 wrote:
Here is my latest rant concerning TK; where do they come up with stuff like this???
Elite Plus members get two free Y to C upgrade annually. I've been using them for the last 5 years. In the past, you call TK, they look up if there is upgradeable space available, then you buy your ticket, then you upgrade using the voucher. Today, they tell me that I have to purchase a ticket and with the ticket number they will be able to tell me if there is any seats available to upgrade. Without a ticket number no way of telling if there are voucher available seats inside the total number of J seats. So you buy your ticket, and they say no available J upgrades, how do you ever get to use them??? Any ideas??

Sounds like how AA and and I believe UA do their systemwide upgrades. Need to purchase ticket first before the upgrade can be processed, with no guarantee of seats ever becoming available.

Though you could always join expertflyer.com and do the research yourself by looking at available inventory directly.
For instance TK upgrade inventory is coded as "J", while biz award seat is coded "I". This will give you an idea of what flights have what. For example a random ISTJFK Monday May 13 shows 4 upgrade seats on TK3, none on TK1 and 1 on TK11.
Atleast this gives you an idea and hopefully, the seats are still there when you book and ticket.

OA260 · Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:21 pm

LAXintl wrote:
For instance TK upgrade inventory is coded as "J", while biz award seat is coded "I".

Exactly so it would take little effort for TK to just tell him that there are I class seats when they look at their screen. Especially for one of their Premium card holders.

TK787 · Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:25 pm

OA260 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
For instance TK upgrade inventory is coded as "J", while biz award seat is coded "I".

Exactly so it would take little effort for TK to just tell him that there are I class seats when they look at their screen. Especially for one of their Premium card holders.

That is exactly what I told the TK staff. They were telling me that all they can see is "J", which means Business seat available. After they put in a ticket number, then they can see if there are seat avail for upgrade. And I suggested why don't you have two codes. "J" for business to be purchased and another code for inventory for upgrades

How I ended up doing is, asked them to take a look at all flights for 3 different dates and tell me where it says J/9 ( 9 or more seats avail) and booked a Y flight and went immediately back and got the voucher upgrade.
Next time, I will just use a travel agent I know in Ankara. I give them all my info and preferred travel times and they deal with it for a small fee.

stylo777 · Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:35 am

With todays' technology, this should be a fairly easy affair to handle by the customer itself - book, purchase and upgrade over thy.com; but nooo, TK wants you to go through their super-sophisticated callcenter experience with a "slight" chance of disappointment; even for the Elite Pluses of this world.

juliuswong · Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:34 am

mafaky wrote:
ist2014 wrote:
please note that as per TK presentation, # of A332s will be reduced from 18 to 13 in 2020, so I expect lease end of 5 A332s (perhaps ex TAM birds)
On the other hand, as per TK presentation # of A333 will be increased to 39 from 37 at the end of 2019, so I do not know how, but seems TK will lease 2 more 333s
What makes me worry is potential decline of demand for 2019, Q1 numbers were not so good

The 5 332 birds to leave TK fleet by the end of (or during) 2020 should be:
(*) the 3 ex-Jetway dry leased frames (TC-JIL/JIM/JIN),
(*) the 2 DAE Capital leased frames (TC-LNA/LNB).

But if Atlas will be getting 4 TK 332 birds, these have to come from the ex-TAM fleet of 8 frames, which are dry leased from AerCap and have undergone some cabin modifications (previously 2 of these went out to Russian Nordwind and later returned after a year's utilisation; same scenarion can be carried out for Atlas...).

Increase for 33 fleet: a mystery for me, unless there's a misprinting there at TK's table. AFAIK, one frame (the one leased from Afriqiyah, the TC-JOM) should be returned by mid 2023...). The ex-Skymark ones (7 frames) should be following later; if I'm not wrong the were leased for a period of 7 years, respectively.

If Skyliner-aviation.de is correct, they should be taking ex-WOW air TF-LUV and TF-WOW.

TF-LUV was sent to FCO 17th April for repainting and I guess for reconfiguration too. Both aircraft were previously with Skymark Airlines.

TF-LUV MSN 1607 Stored at LDE Lessor: CIT Aerospace ex-UX EC-MIN, ex-BC JA330K
TF-WOW MSN 1624 Stored at LDE Lessor: CIT Aerospace ex-UX EC-MIO, ex-BC JA330L

For A332, I find it quite wasteful for TK to reconfigured those ex-TAM machines recently and are now leaving the fleet, if they are indeed leaving.

Those ex-9W aircraft would be grounded after leaving TK for creditors to take over. Most probably sold for debt recovery.

gokmengs · Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 am

TK is leasing 2 333’s from Wow Air

https://twitter.com/AnalystTK/status/11 ... 3979215878

aldrigsomandre · Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:43 am

gokmengs wrote:
TK is leasing 2 333’s from Wow Air

https://twitter.com/AnalystTK/status/11 ... 3979215878

TK remains the largest A330 operator in the world. Quite fascinating.
I'm a big big fan of the 2-4-2 layout.

I wonder if they're going to order the A330neo..

gokmengs · Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:52 am

gokmengs wrote:
TK is leasing 2 333’s from Wow Air

https://twitter.com/AnalystTK/status/11 ... 3979215878

On the 787 front the registration details are clear now. First 787 will be MSN 865 (parts now in Everett to become TC-LLA with June delivery
http://www.goklerdeyiz.net/thynin-boein ... elli-oldu/

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davidjohnson6 · Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:27 am

I've seen reports in the press about TK doing some sort of test flights at Zonguldak with a view to possibly opening a route to IST. There was also vague mention about the ILS possibly being considered for upgrade.

Zonguldak to either Ankara or Sabiha Gokcen takes about 4 hours by land - the last regular routes were summer seasonal with Germania to Düsseldorf and Münster-Osnabrück in Germany

Anyone know anything about this ?

stylo777 · Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:15 am

Why test flights? That would be very unusual and as far as I remember, there used to be IST-Zonguldak flights some years ago with 319 aircraft.

mafaky · Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:56 pm

Those ex-WowAir a330-343 frames will /should be joining TK fleet within soon. (MSN 1606 & 1624) These are, another two of the ex-Skymark frames, which were never taken and physically flown by the Japan airline. They have an all-economy cabin and I don't expect any major cabin re-configurations, inbc. the IFE systems... And, I expect TK will use these exclusively of Hadj & Umrah services, after the those 4 343s were retired (and sold)!...

B777LRF · Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:59 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Why test flights? That would be very unusual and as far as I remember, there used to be IST-Zonguldak flights some years ago with 319 aircraft.

Counts as a flight for management pilots, without having to endure actual line flying

TK787 · Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:10 pm

mafaky wrote:
Those ex-WowAir a330-343 frames have an all-economy cabin .

From what I can find out, the two frames; TF-LUV and TF-WOW have 27C 318Y layouts. Are you sure they are all economy??

mafaky · Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:23 pm

TK787 wrote:
mafaky wrote:
Those ex-WowAir a330-343 frames have an all-economy cabin .

From what I can find out, the two frames; TF-LUV and TF-WOW have 27C 318Y layouts. Are you sure they are all economy??

Partly true, they have a premium economy cabin (if it's a physically separated one???), but not a real "business" cabin) according to planespotters site. Pls. see: https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ce/kMBEhPq

It says "W", not "C". Skymark frames had an all-W (premium economy) cabin and in 2-3-2 layout, unless my memory fools me with a total cabin seat capacity of 271. But those 271 were not the basic "Y" seats... I believe those 27W seats during WowAir utilisation were left from the Skymark era.

I have no idea if these seats will be replaced by the basic economy ones. Surely the remaining 318Y seats are true-life "C" seats and WowAir used these for some time.

ist2014 · Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:39 pm

Maybe reconfiguration to 305 seats like other 7 skymark birds is part of the deal
Then they would be good machine for european routes

Turkish777X · Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:55 pm

ist2014 wrote:
Maybe reconfiguration to 305 seats like other 7 skymark birds is part of the deal
Then they would be good machine for european routes

Latest rumour is that those 2 jets will be used for hajj ops. Makes a lot of sense since the 343s left and tk has no real other machine with all Y config.

I would not be suprised if TK opted for the Taxibot or similar competitor products: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf0RvcV8Xmc
I believe it would help a lot at such a mega airport. Especially trying this out for their widebody fleet would make sense considering issues with fuel burn and hot brakes.

AAEK192 · Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:24 pm

Hi!

I've just noticed TK has a new black logo, since they're into changing (from uniforms, to hub airport, to new business,...) wouldn't it make sense for them to get a new livery (or a revised one) matching their new logo? Perhaps to be debuted on the 789? Just asking...

stylo777 · Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:46 pm

mafaky wrote:
TK787 wrote:
mafaky wrote:
Those ex-WowAir a330-343 frames have an all-economy cabin .

From what I can find out, the two frames; TF-LUV and TF-WOW have 27C 318Y layouts. Are you sure they are all economy??

Partly true, they have a premium economy cabin (if it's a physically separated one???), but not a real "business" cabin) according to planespotters site. Pls. see: https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ce/kMBEhPq

It says "W", not "C". Skymark frames had an all-W (premium economy) cabin and in 2-3-2 layout, unless my memory fools me with a total cabin seat capacity of 271. But those 271 were not the basic "Y" seats... I believe those 27W seats during WowAir utilisation were left from the Skymark era.

I have no idea if these seats will be replaced by the basic economy ones. Surely the remaining 318Y seats are true-life "C" seats and WowAir used these for some time.

Totally confusing and my whole respect to you for trying to explain

AirbusA343 · Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:38 pm

AAEK192 wrote:
Hi!

I've just noticed TK has a new black logo, since they're into changing (from uniforms, to hub airport, to new business,...) wouldn't it make sense for them to get a new livery (or a revised one) matching their new logo? Perhaps to be debuted on the 789? Just asking...

I don't think it's time for a new livery yet. Their current one is fairly new. TC-JMI and TC-JMJ got the new livery not too long ago (probably less than 2 years ago). TC-JDN, a recently retired A340, never got the new livery.

Slash787 · Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:59 pm

2 days ago I flew IST - BOM, I saw there was Aeroflot crew in their uniform as passengers, any idea why would Aeroflot crew travel on Turkish Airlines from IST to BOM. As far as I know Aeroflot does not flies to Bombay.

DIRECTFLT · Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:26 pm

While watching a YouTube video of flights in and out of Heathrow, I noticed that Turkey and Delta were two airlines that painted the name of the airline on the underside of their planes. What's the practical reason for doing this?

aldrigsomandre · Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:20 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
While watching a YouTube video of flights in and out of Heathrow, I noticed that Turkey and Delta were two airlines that painted the name of the airline on the underside of their planes. What's the practical reason for doing this?

Emirates kicked off that trend, I believe.

janders · Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:56 pm

Logo under the belly is purely a PR move. More and more airlines do so these days.

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