Indian Aviation Thread - April 2019

qf789 · Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:51 am

Welcome to Indian Aviation Thread April 2019. Please continue to add your comments below.

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1416793

unrave · Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:25 am

SpiceJet launches a slew of new flights today

Mumbai-Bhopal
Mumbai-Gorakhpur
Chennai-Patna
Delhi-Bhopal (2x daily)
Jaipur-Dharamshala
Surat-Bhopal

UDAN:
Kishangarh-Ahmedabad
Lakhimpur-Guwahati
Jaipur-Amritsar
Delhi-Jharsuguda
Hyderabad-Jharsuguda
Kolkata-Jharsuguda
Bhopal-Udaipur

According to the head of comms of SG, the airline now operates 33 daily flights under UDAN - the highest by any carrier

edealinfo · Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:28 am

unrave wrote:
SpiceJet launches a slew of new flights today

Mumbai-Bhopal
Mumbai-Gorakhpur

Where did they get the Bombay slots from? Or did they cancel 2 other flights from Bombay to use them for the above slots?

VTCIE · Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:40 am

unrave wrote:
SpiceJet launches a slew of new flights today

Mumbai-Bhopal
Mumbai-Gorakhpur
Chennai-Patna
Delhi-Bhopal (2x daily)
Jaipur-Dharamshala
Surat-Bhopal

UDAN:
Kishangarh-Ahmedabad
Lakhimpur-Guwahati
Jaipur-Amritsar
Delhi-Jharsuguda
Hyderabad-Jharsuguda
Kolkata-Jharsuguda
Bhopal-Udaipur

According to the head of comms of SG, the airline now operates 33 daily flights under UDAN - the highest by any carrier

I think JRG (Jharsuguda) is only the second airport in Odisha to be served by a big commercial carrier, after BBI. I don't think RRK (Rourkela) is served by any big airline.

binayak · Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:46 am

deleted

unrave · Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:49 am

edealinfo wrote:
Where did they get the Bombay slots from? Or did they cancel 2 other flights from Bombay to use them for the above slots?

They cancelled other flights. One of them was an evening BOM-COK-BOM.

VTCIE wrote:
[
I think JRG (Jharsuguda) is only the second airport in Odisha to be served by a big commercial carrier, after BBI. I don't think RRK (Rourkela) is served by any big airline.

True, JRG became the second airport of Odisha when it was inaugurated last year.

anshabhi · Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:54 am

unrave wrote:
SpiceJet launches a slew of new flights today

Mumbai-Bhopal
Mumbai-Gorakhpur
Chennai-Patna
Delhi-Bhopal (2x daily)
Jaipur-Dharamshala
Surat-Bhopal

UDAN:
Kishangarh-Ahmedabad
Lakhimpur-Guwahati
Jaipur-Amritsar
Delhi-Jharsuguda
Hyderabad-Jharsuguda
Kolkata-Jharsuguda
Bhopal-Udaipur

According to the head of comms of SG, the airline now operates 33 daily flights under UDAN - the highest by any carrier

Is this their 1st April announcement?

avier · Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:12 pm

Also GoAir started their second daily Mumbai-Kannur flight today, which is an afternoon departure. This, along with their existing midnight flight on the route.

edealinfo · Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:26 pm

avier wrote:
Also GoAir started their second daily Mumbai-Kannur flight today, which is an afternoon departure. This, along with their existing midnight flight on the route.

Kannur seems to be faring extraordinarily well for a new airport. They have attracted a lot of flights from Indigo, GoAir and Air India Express within a very short period of time.

anshabhi · Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:59 pm

edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
Also GoAir started their second daily Mumbai-Kannur flight today, which is an afternoon departure. This, along with their existing midnight flight on the route.

Kannur seems to be faring extraordinarily well for a new airport. They have attracted a lot of flights from Indigo, GoAir and Air India Express within a very short period of time.

It has also turned out to be a very sought after airport for parking with multiple a/c of both 9W and G8 parked there.

The only loser is IXE, which handles barely 2 million pax currently and is likely to lose a lot of pax to CNN.

unrave · Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:05 pm

anshabhi wrote:

The only loser is IXE, which handles barely 2 million pax currently and is likely to lose a lot of pax to CNN.

Is the capacity of IXE really 34m? The runway does not even have a parallel taxiway.

anshabhi · Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:22 pm

unrave wrote:
anshabhi wrote:

The only loser is IXE, which handles barely 2 million pax currently and is likely to lose a lot of pax to CNN.

Is the capacity of IXE really 34m? The runway does not even have a parallel taxiway.

*Correction. I couldn't find any source for max capacity of IXE. In any case, I would be surprised if we see a positive growth in its no of pax handled this year

edealinfo · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:23 pm

anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
Also GoAir started their second daily Mumbai-Kannur flight today, which is an afternoon departure. This, along with their existing midnight flight on the route.

Kannur seems to be faring extraordinarily well for a new airport. They have attracted a lot of flights from Indigo, GoAir and Air India Express within a very short period of time.

It has also turned out to be a very sought after airport for parking with multiple a/c of both 9W and G8 parked there.

The only loser is IXE, which handles barely 2 million pax currently and is likely to lose a lot of pax to CNN.

I think one reason for CNN's outstanding success if the low tax rate on fuel (for I believe 8 or 10 years). This allows airlines to have a base there.

sand26391 · Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:04 pm

BLR 2nd RWY status.

https://twitter.com/BeingPractical/stat ... 82280?s=19

edealinfo · Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:57 pm

sand26391 wrote:
BLR 2nd RWY status.

https://twitter.com/BeingPractical/stat ... 82280?s=19

Thanks for sharing...great pic!
Looks like they could make the runway much longer if they wanted!

On another note......does Bangalore have the ability to add a 3rd runway or are they physically capped at 2 runways?

unrave · Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:12 pm

edealinfo wrote:

On another note......does Bangalore have the ability to add a 3rd runway or are they physically capped at 2 runways?

Not possible without acquiring more land

avier · Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:21 pm

All major Indian airports should aim for 4 parallel runways with 200mn annual capacity.

edealinfo · Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:21 pm

unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

On another note......does Bangalore have the ability to add a 3rd runway or are they physically capped at 2 runways?

Not possible without acquiring more land

BUT, is that land currently unoccupied?

unrave · Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:24 pm

edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

On another note......does Bangalore have the ability to add a 3rd runway or are they physically capped at 2 runways?

Not possible without acquiring more land

BUT, is that land currently unoccupied?

Yes but the UPA land acquisition bill has made it prohibitively expensive to acquire private lands so this is unlikely to happen

anshabhi · Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:32 pm

unrave wrote:

BUT, is that land currently unoccupied?

Yes but the UPA land acquisition bill has made it prohibitively expensive to acquire private lands so this is unlikely to happen

I am just hoping that SpaceX StarShip comes to reality soon and whole need of runways is antiquated

Atleast for long haul flights

unrave · Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:55 pm

avier wrote:
All major Indian airports should aim for 4 parallel runways with 200mn annual capacity.

That's a tall ask in a country where currently NO airport has even two parallel runways. BLR will be the first

anshabhi · Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:34 pm

Another review of 6E 12 IST-DEL:

https://mobile.twitter.com/vishal1mehra ... 5301985281

Interestingly, this is flying nonstop for nearly 8 hours. According to above review even A320 was only 70% filled

sand26391 · Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:10 am

9W opens Booking for Surat-Amsterdam & Cochin-Amsterdam.
Plans to make Surat & Cochin a hub for International routes & drop Mumbai as its HQ.

unrave · Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:19 am

sand26391 wrote:
9W opens Booking for Surat-Amsterdam & Cochin-Amsterdam.
Plans to make Surat & Cochin a hub for International routes & drop Mumbai as its HQ.

You're forgetting Trivandrum - Tokyo

binayak · Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:21 am

unrave wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
9W opens Booking for Surat-Amsterdam & Cochin-Amsterdam.
Plans to make Surat & Cochin a hub for International routes & drop Mumbai as its HQ.

You're forgetting Trivandrum - Tokyo

And Aurangabad to Beijing too! Most wanted by twitterites!

sand26391 · Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:37 am

Trivandrum-Tokyo by Air India express via Hong Kong is very possible as there are a hell lot of Japanese & Chinese companies in TRV.

Aurangabad-PEK is also very likely as the twitter mentions are above 100, so definitely there MUST be demand.

Also lets not forget AMRITSAR-Vancouver-Toronto flights are also starting soon by Air Canada as "FlyATQ" campaign has more tham 50 mentions in past 1 day.. so definitely lot of demand on Twitter.

trinidadeG · Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:54 am

IndiGo gets a step closer to UK foray, Spicejet may join in too

Indian low cost carriers (LCCs) IndiGo and Spicejet have gone a step ahead in their plans of starting flights to the United Kingdom. This comes in the backdrop of the collapse of Icelandic LCC WOW Air.

IndiGo has plans of going to London Stansted! Initial reports based on the court filing by Delta against JetBlue had shown IndiGo holding slots at London Gatwick. Back then, this website had not carried any article since slot filing, approval and returning of slots is a very common airline practice and continues from season to season. All airlines worldwide try to get slots at airports which are on their radar for immediate or near term expansion and return the same to the airport based on the deadlines defined by IATA. As of now, the airline continues to hold slots at Gatwick but the slots are not at same time daily which would have made the airline look at Stansted as an option for the flights to India.

https://networkthoughts.com/2019/03/29/ ... eyIgHjzk-E

anshabhi · Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:36 am

trinidadeG wrote:
IndiGo gets a step closer to UK foray, Spicejet may join in too

Indian low cost carriers (LCCs) IndiGo and Spicejet have gone a step ahead in their plans of starting flights to the United Kingdom. This comes in the backdrop of the collapse of Icelandic LCC WOW Air.

IndiGo has plans of going to London Stansted! Initial reports based on the court filing by Delta against JetBlue had shown IndiGo holding slots at London Gatwick. Back then, this website had not carried any article since slot filing, approval and returning of slots is a very common airline practice and continues from season to season. All airlines worldwide try to get slots at airports which are on their radar for immediate or near term expansion and return the same to the airport based on the deadlines defined by IATA. As of now, the airline continues to hold slots at Gatwick but the slots are not at same time daily which would have made the airline look at Stansted as an option for the flights to India.

https://networkthoughts.com/2019/03/29/ ... eyIgHjzk-E

IndiGo just announced that it expects these flights to be huge success as, as per their research, humans don't need food, drinks, internet, entertainment, leg space or any other amenity to barely survive at all. If cattle can why not humans!!??

It's also recommending faint hearted people to reserve a hospital bed in arrival city before departure itself.

April Fools aside, it's only common sense to think that if anyone is going on holiday, they set aside a budget for it and want it to be fun rather than a struggle.
People travelling for business, paid for by their employers are very naturally not even going to think about this.

trinidadeG · Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:46 am

anshabhi wrote:
IndiGo just announced that it expects these flights to be huge success as, as per their research, humans don't need food, drinks, internet, entertainment, leg space or any other amenity to barely survive at all. If cattle can why not humans!!??

It's also recommending faint hearted people to reserve a hospital bed in arrival city before departure itself.

I've already explained in previous posts why I think IndiGo is right in expecting success. Majority of the people commenting on the internet are current flyers, who know what to expect on long haul for X amount of money.

IndiGo, OTOH, is tapping into a new crowd of flyers who will be WILLING to bear the "inconvenience" (and figure workarounds, FTW) of an LCC long haul flight. In a nation of 1 billion like ours, its not that difficult to find such people to fill planes.

People who are "faint hearted" are most welcome to cough up cash and fly FSC.

trinidadeG · Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:59 am

anshabhi wrote:
April Fools aside, it's only common sense to think that if anyone is going on holiday, they set aside a budget for it and want it to be fun rather than a struggle.
People travelling for business, paid for by their employers are very naturally not even going to think about this.

I could be wrong, but I have a strong feeling this is similar what the FSC managements were thinking 10 years ago when 6E arrived on the domestic scene.

ameya · Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:31 am

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/the-days-of-cheap-airfare-are-over-for-now-heres-why-2795841.htm

There is a general agreement among travellers that airfares have shot up. A close look reveals that pricing strategy by airlines is adjusting itself to the global benchmarks of revenue management. In other words, airlines are doing away with last-minute discounting strategies and fares closer to departure are higher than what they were earlier.

For travellers used to low fares and last-minute plans, this is a nuisance. What were moderately higher fares have suddenly become exorbitant. And last-minute travel plans have been ruined. But for airlines, this was the only way to remain sustainable in the market, especially at a time when one of the airlines was in dire straits.

Pricing is also a function of capacity and the demand is intertwined to that capacity. When capacity increased manifold in the market, seats were filled up by lower fares. Airlines were bleeding because they were selling below the cost price of the ticket. The capacity constraint in the market started in early December and continues to date, with the period from end February being the worst.

EmoticonsAllDay · Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:57 am

A good article by Deccan Herald stating the plight of Indian aviation and the things government can do to make the lives of airlines better.

https://www.deccanherald.com/amp/busine ... 26285.html

anshabhi · Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:45 am

trinidadeG wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
April Fools aside, it's only common sense to think that if anyone is going on holiday, they set aside a budget for it and want it to be fun rather than a struggle.
People travelling for business, paid for by their employers are very naturally not even going to think about this.

I could be wrong, but I have a strong feeling this is similar what the FSC managements were thinking 10 years ago when 6E arrived on the domestic scene.

Beyond a point we should start looking at what pax will do after getting off the plane. You don't have money to buy a FSC ticket but want to travel UK, eh? We don't have enough backpackers to fill entire a/c yet.

In it's early days 6E gained a lot of business pax due to on time service when all other domestic airlines were pretty poor in this respect. Even today, 6E is what it is mostly because of its corporate contacts.

It's only in recent times that people who would travel in 3AC are moving to 6E but will the same people go to Europe on vacations? Note: Fares on 6E in 2019 are much cheaper than AI in 2005, while AC Fares in railways have risen multi folds.

No one whose ticket is being paid by their company will travel a long haul LCC, so I am not even considering them as possible pax for this flight.

binayak · Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:50 am

anshabhi wrote:

In it's early days 6E gained a lot of business pax due to on time service when all other domestic airlines were pretty poor in this respect. Even today, 6E is what it is mostly because of its corporate contacts.

Where did you get this from? I assume that by "in early days" you mean 2008 or so . That was the time when 6E didn't have the network to win corporate contracts and so flew mostly budget flyers . Business pax during that time had lots of other options with AI , KF ,9W . In fact IIRC during those days , it was much easier to get award tickets in J than what it is today clearly showing that there was an excess of J capacity a decade back .

Today 6E is capturing business traffic through its vast network all around the country .

dtw2hyd · Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:04 am

trinidadeG wrote:

IndiGo, OTOH, is tapping into a new crowd of flyers who will be WILLING to bear the "inconvenience" (and figure workarounds, FTW) of an LCC long haul flight. In a nation of 1 billion like ours, its not that difficult to find such people to fill planes.

People who are "faint hearted" are most welcome to cough up cash and fly FSC.

All the low lost long-haul carriers are in trouble. So Indian private carrier success formula ie., Currency heat(hot to cold) conversion rate> Operational losses is feasible only within the country.

Operational costs of every frame type and airports fees are well known to the world, so does Indian tax rates. We just do it better so we are profitable theory doesn't hold water.

Norwegian, WoW(gone) and Air Asia X(even FlyDubai) are not booming in LHLCC segment, Indigo dominating LHLCC is just wishful thinking.

Paying airport fees at DOH, IST and code-share pass thru doesn't come cheap, to offer rock bottom prices to passengers.

unrave · Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:37 pm

binayak wrote:
Today 6E is capturing business traffic through its vast network all around the country .

6E started capturing business traffic from around 2012 coinciding with the demise of KFA.

dtw2hyd wrote:
So Indian private carrier success formula ie., Currency heat(hot to cold) conversion rate> Operational losses is feasible only within the country.

Can someone tell me if that statement is written in American English?

trinidadeG · Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:39 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Beyond a point we should start looking at what pax will do after getting off the plane. You don't have money to buy a FSC ticket but want to travel UK, eh? We don't have enough backpackers to fill entire a/c yet.

While you may be right about Corporate or Company-paid trips and even Tourists, you're overlooking the VFR segment. Indian Diaspora in the UK is quite a big segment. These people hail from several states in India. There certainly will be people who will readily take up IndiGo's offering if it means that they can now (for example) visit family twice a year instead of once. Or make that emergency trip with cash to spare.

anubhav787 · Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:31 pm

I was thinking about this question for many days. Do flight routes like Delhi/Mumbai-Gorakhpur or BLR-IXD really need an A320 or B737? I flew from BLR to IXD last week and the load was just 30 to 40%. My friends also said that they had seen the same situation on Gorakhpur flights many times. So, aren't Indigo and Spicejet bleeding money by continuing such routes?

pune · Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:03 am

trinidadeG wrote:
While you may be right about Corporate or Company-paid trips and even Tourists, you're overlooking the VFR segment. Indian Diaspora in the UK is quite a big segment. These people hail from several states in India. There certainly will be people who will readily take up IndiGo's offering if it means that they can now (for example) visit family twice a year instead of once. Or make that emergency trip with cash to spare.

While I do not what VFR stands for, I do understand the fact that there may be lot more tourism if the visa fees for instance were halved or lessened apart from the ticket fees. I do hope that after Brexit (Whenever that happens) there is a discounting on visa fees so more people could explore England.

CPS001 · Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:14 am

anubhav787 wrote:
I was thinking about this question for many days. Do flight routes like Delhi/Mumbai-Gorakhpur or BLR-IXD really need an A320 or B737? I flew from BLR to IXD last week and the load was just 30 to 40%. My friends also said that they had seen the same situation on Gorakhpur flights many times. So, aren't Indigo and Spicejet bleeding money by continuing such routes?

Several of such routes, including BLR-IXD, come under UDAN and get govt subsidies.

VTCIE · Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:34 am

pune wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
While you may be right about Corporate or Company-paid trips and even Tourists, you're overlooking the VFR segment. Indian Diaspora in the UK is quite a big segment. These people hail from several states in India. There certainly will be people who will readily take up IndiGo's offering if it means that they can now (for example) visit family twice a year instead of once. Or make that emergency trip with cash to spare.

While I do not what VFR stands for, I do understand the fact that there may be lot more tourism if the visa fees for instance were halved or lessened apart from the ticket fees. I do hope that after Brexit (Whenever that happens) there is a discounting on visa fees so more people could explore England.

VFR means Visiting Friends and Relatives.

anshabhi · Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Vistara has announced 7 new daily flights out of BOM including 5 on BOM-BLR for upcoming holiday season.

It's just amazing to see how quickly the 9W slots are being reallotted and being put to use by other airlines everywhere

unrave · Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:40 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Vistara has announced 7 new daily flights out of BOM including 5 on BOM-BLR for upcoming holiday season.

It's just amazing to see how quickly the 9W slots are being reallotted and being put to use by other airlines everywhere

Air Asia India has announced a number of flights as well

anshabhi · Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:23 pm

unrave wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Vistara has announced 7 new daily flights out of BOM including 5 on BOM-BLR for upcoming holiday season.

It's just amazing to see how quickly the 9W slots are being reallotted and being put to use by other airlines everywhere

Air Asia India has announced a number of flights as well

Which is making it pretty clear that there's a small chance of 9W being missed

pune · Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:29 pm

seems 737 Max MCAs is back in news https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... an-flight/

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... repeatedly

pune · Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:35 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/af ... story.html?

avier · Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:23 pm

6E likely to start Aizwal ( Lengpui) from next month and introduce ATR ops at CCU.

unrave · Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:40 pm

6E new flights (ATR)

pune · Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:02 pm

unrave wrote:
6E new flights (ATR)

I wish the forum could be upgraded but guess it would be a large order with too many moving parts. It sucks having to use reply just to see image hyperlink

anshabhi · Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:05 pm

pune wrote:

I wish the forum could be upgraded but guess it would be a large order with too many moving parts. It sucks having to use reply just to see image hyperlink

Hey you can right click on image and copy it's URL directly or open in new tab

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