jimbo737 wrote:

Because they are publicly traded, they have no choice but to release all material information in a timely fashion...

Still waiting for those Q4 2018 numbers... Can't imagine it takes 3 months to do the accounting for an organization with no material operation.

Not sure why you're calling them "Jetballs" though.

Launch date December 17 2019

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... iming.html

https://standbynordic.com/latvias-smart ... -turnover/

Looks like SmartLynx made a better deal then AerCap

Stock drop now the time to buy

Blueknows wrote:

Stock drop now the time to buy

At a valuation of $40M?

Blueknows wrote:

Launch date December 17 2019

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... iming.html

Another so called plan that makes absolutely zero sense.

Jetballs seem desperate to prove their complete incompetence at every level.

Launching an airline in Canada a week before Christmas?

What could possibly go wrong?

jimbo737 wrote:

Blueknows wrote:

Launch date December 17 2019

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... iming.html

Another so called plan that makes absolutely zero sense.

Jetballs seem desperate to prove their complete incompetence at every level.

Launching an airline in Canada a week before Christmas?

What could possibly go wrong?

Please elaborate.

Jim do you work for an airline? I can tell you don’t. Right before Christmas is perfect timing. If they start ticket sales mid end of summer. Depending on first route it will do very well. Holiday travel starts end of November-January 2/3rd.

Assuming these two A320s will get an complete cabin config and new seats? and the Panasonic eX2 system removed?

Smartlynx has the planes I don’t see this as an issue. I posted the thread earlier. Check there site as lists tail numbers for all aircraft. With all these European airlines going belly up there is plenty of used inventory

jimbo737 wrote:

Jetballs

You should really quit using this term. It's hurting your credibility.

wrongwayup wrote:

jimbo737 wrote:

Jetballs

You should really quit using this term. It's hurting your credibility.

Jetballs has no credibility. They've been thrashing around in the market since at least 4Q 2013 and have accomplished nothing. Not a single ASM generated.

Launching an airline from a standing start in the northern half of the northern hemisphere a week before Xmas is patently absurd.

Lets just say there are a few more things to consider when launching an airline than selling tickets.

Like I said. What could possibly go wrong?

jimbo737 wrote:

wrongwayup wrote:

jimbo737 wrote:

Jetballs

You should really quit using this term. It's hurting your credibility.

Jetballs has no credibility. They've been thrashing around in the market since at least 4Q 2013 and have accomplished nothing. Not a single ASM generated.

Launching an airline from a standing start in the northern half of the northern hemisphere a week before Xmas is patently absurd.

Lets just say there are a few more things to consider when launching an airline than selling tickets.

Like I said. What could possibly go wrong?

As long as their first few routes are all YVR-south, then weather-related they should be fine....but we all know that's not gonna happen. They'd be better off waiting until the start of winter break season or a couple of weeks before Easter 2020 and keep raising equity in the meantime...especially Canadian equity as they still need that 51% of the equation before launching.

Now Jetballs though, seriously? Was WestJet referred to as WorstJet during their startup? I think not.

Having said all this, I'd hazard a guess that Jimbo's ex-WestJet buddies at Enerjet will get off the ground with ULCC scheduled ops before Jetlines does.

The difference is WS started raising capital in May 1995 and was flying less than 10 months later.

JetBalls has been making grand pronouncements for 6 years + and still have nothing to show for it.

I'd tend to agree with your last paragraph, which is a further nail in Jetball's coffin.

That being said, they face a dramatically different competitive world than the one faced by WS in 1996.

There's no chance any new entrant will be able to come close to the unit cost differential WS had compared to all the incumbents than mattered in 1996, nor will they be able to exploit countless safe harbors WS had back in the day.

And Swoop is no slouch, either.

Almost 50% of WS's launch routes were non-stop exclusive routes with a 120 seat jet. No one is going to be able to achieve that advantage in Canada 2019-2020, esp running 189 seats.

WS was able to skate between the legs of the incumbents. CP was a basket case and AC wasn't anywhere near as strong as it was today in the west. WS could pick it's battles, rarely having to suffer the onslaught of both AC and CP at the same time. That won't be the case for any new entrant, esp if they decide to venture into core markets, of which there are precious few compared to what's top be found in Europe, the US and elsewhere.

Other than Flair, the incumbents are, financially speaking, in a whole different snack bracket than was the case domestically from '95 through CP's defacto failure in late 1999, (no money for the Dec 15th 1999 payroll), and even the subsequent mess that was AC through their at least their first banco experience in 2003.

Flair learned a valuable lesson the hard way in the winter of 2018-2019, a lesson that is unique to the Cdn market. The others are going to have to learn the same lesson or suffer the same result. I suspect that won't stop some of these operations from trying to run before they learn to walk, with typical results.

This ain't the US with 327m people, cheap taxes and much lower input costs, nor is it the EU with a population of 510m, both with a much larger passenger base that is more disposed to pay higher yielding fares that underwrite the "oh my gosh" type fares that ULCC's rely upon to stimulate traffic.

It's Canada with 35m people, with 23% of the population who culturally, and from a VFR perspective, have very little interest or propensity to fly domestically compared to the balance of the population, at ANY price.

Had WS faced the launch scenario today in 1996, I doubt WJ would have been successful.

It'll be interesting to watch it unfold.

jimbo737 wrote:

Jetballs has no credibility.

Never said they did. It's your own credibility and therefore the credibility of your otherwise rational arguments that you're hurting by using a slightly sexualized, perjorative term instead of their actual name.

Still waiting on those Q4 financials, Jetlines.

Blueknows wrote:

https://standbynordic.com/latvias-smartlynx-sees-big-rise-in-turnover/

Looks like SmartLynx made a better deal then AerCap

Jetlines had more than $2M in deposits with AerCap. Wonder if they'll get it all back.

wrongwayup wrote:

Never said they did. It's your own credibility and therefore the credibility of your otherwise rational arguments that you're hurting by using a slightly sexualized, perjorative term instead of their actual name.

I have been thinking the same thing, as he continually uses that name.

It makes me think that either he is an 11 year old boy, (and snickering), or Jetlines really does pose a threat.

Jetballs poses the same threat to incumbents as Skybus did south of the border a few years ago.

They've duly earned the moniker.

I mean, seriously, besides everything else they've screwed up since 4Q 2013, and have yet to sell a single, solitary seat, largely because they don't have a single, solitary seat to sell after 6+ years, what could possibly go wrong operationally with this stock pumping venture by launching in Canada a week before Christmas?

In the immortal words of the Trailer Park Boys, whose collective intelligence rivals the wisdom of everything this cast of clowns has dreamed up thus far, "think Ricky, think!"

Here is jetlines response to AerCap issues

Jetlines will not have to pay any penalties for canceling the agreement with Aercap. AerCap, in its determination will provide financial accommodation up to the amount of the deposit payments with respect to future lease agreements that Jetlines enters into with AerCap prior to April 2019, subject to certain conditions.
With our launch planned for December, we wanted to realign our delivery dates for aircraft with our launch date to be as cost effective as possible. In place of our agreement with AerCap, we leveraged our existing partnership with SmartLynx and intend to lease our initial aircraft with them.

jimbo737 wrote:

The difference is WS started raising capital in May 1995 and was flying less than 10 months later.

JetBalls has been making grand pronouncements for 6 years + and still have nothing to show for it.

I'd tend to agree with your last paragraph, which is a further nail in Jetball's coffin.

That being said, they face a dramatically different competitive world than the one faced by WS in 1996.

There's no chance any new entrant will be able to come close to the unit cost differential WS had compared to all the incumbents than mattered in 1996, nor will they be able to exploit countless safe harbors WS had back in the day.

And Swoop is no slouch, either.

Almost 50% of WS's launch routes were non-stop exclusive routes with a 120 seat jet. No one is going to be able to achieve that advantage in Canada 2019-2020, esp running 189 seats.

WS was able to skate between the legs of the incumbents. CP was a basket case and AC wasn't anywhere near as strong as it was today in the west. WS could pick it's battles, rarely having to suffer the onslaught of both AC and CP at the same time. That won't be the case for any new entrant, esp if they decide to venture into core markets, of which there are precious few compared to what's top be found in Europe, the US and elsewhere.

Other than Flair, the incumbents are, financially speaking, in a whole different snack bracket than was the case domestically from '95 through CP's defacto failure in late 1999, (no money for the Dec 15th 1999 payroll), and even the subsequent mess that was AC through their at least their first banco experience in 2003.

Flair learned a valuable lesson the hard way in the winter of 2018-2019, a lesson that is unique to the Cdn market. The others are going to have to learn the same lesson or suffer the same result. I suspect that won't stop some of these operations from trying to run before they learn to walk, with typical results.

This ain't the US with 327m people, cheap taxes and much lower input costs, nor is it the EU with a population of 510m, both with a much larger passenger base that is more disposed to pay higher yielding fares that underwrite the "oh my gosh" type fares that ULCC's rely upon to stimulate traffic.

It's Canada with 35m people, with 23% of the population who culturally, and from a VFR perspective, have very little interest or propensity to fly domestically compared to the balance of the population, at ANY price.

Had WS faced the launch scenario today in 1996, I doubt WJ would have been successful.

It'll be interesting to watch it unfold.

Many valid points. I do believe that there’s room for one or maybe two jet operator additional airlines in Canada. However, they need to be well thought out and well planned and capitalized. Enerjet is going about things quietly and having (at this point) the backing of ULCC investor juggernauts Indigo. That must mean they’re onto something without showing all their cards like Jetlines must do. I sure hope Flair sticks around, but I continue to scratch my head at their neglecting of two of the six largest metro areas in the country...especially when WestJet is so weak in both of them.

Blueknows wrote:

Here is jetlines response to AerCap issues

Jetlines will not have to pay any penalties for canceling the agreement with Aercap. AerCap, in its determination will provide financial accommodation up to the amount of the deposit payments with respect to future lease agreements that Jetlines enters into with AerCap prior to April 2019, subject to certain conditions.
With our launch planned for December, we wanted to realign our delivery dates for aircraft with our launch date to be as cost effective as possible. In place of our agreement with AerCap, we leveraged our existing partnership with SmartLynx and intend to lease our initial aircraft with them.

Interesting - got a link/source for this? What this means to me is that AerCap will hang on to the deposits, and if they so choose, apply them towards future business. But Jetlines isn't getting the money back. Ouch.

wrongwayup wrote:

Interesting - got a link/source for this? What this means to me is that AerCap will hang on to the deposits, and if they so choose, apply them towards future business. But Jetlines isn't getting the money back. Ouch.

Well AerCap now has two a320CEO's sitting around in CHC waiting for someone else to lease them, so probably only fair the funds have been held back.

They are only 13years old, so likely AerCap wants/needs to get a couple more years out them.

With smartlynx they get pilots and crew until they can hire there own. Also having the option to then get 2 more airbus quick is a good option. Go to jetlines Facebook page. If you comment they will respond. You can also message them. They responded to me pretty quick

I for one would not invest in Jetlines and I have a high tolerance for risk. So many red flags.

.[/quote]

Many valid points. I do believe that there’s room for one or maybe two jet operator additional airlines in Canada. However, they need to be well thought out and well planned and capitalized. Enerjet is going about things quietly and having (at this point) the backing of ULCC investor juggernauts Indigo. That must mean they’re onto something without showing all their cards like Jetlines must do. I sure hope Flair sticks around, but I continue to scratch my head at their neglecting of two of the six largest metro areas in the country...especially when WestJet is so weak in both of them.[/quote]

Perhaps you might want to consider why WS is, in your words, “so weak” in 2 of the six largest markets in Canada after 23 years with close to 180 tails operating, and how a new entrant with a couple of airframes operating 12 block hours a day with an asl of 1,000 miles + is going to be able to accomplish what you perceive WS has failed to do.

I assume you include YUL in the category. Strategically, I can’t think of a better market for any of the new outfits to attempt to muscle in on.

Yes sir. Focus on a market that represents 23% of the countries population that has a fraction of the RoC’s propensity for domestic travel, at ANY price, due to the fundamental, (culturally driven), lack of VFR traffic, with precious little demand for intra Quebec air travel, (with YUL-YQB being well under 200 miles and an easy drive), with the vast majority of intra Canada travel focused on YYZ, just 300 miles away, and the highest cost airport in North America, which happens to be exceedingly well served to YUL by AC, WS and PD and is a fortress hub of the dominant player in Canada. Oh yea. There’s an airport located about an hour away across the border that has massively lower costs and does not attract close to $100 of unavoidable fees, taxes and transborder charges on every r/t fare sold to Florida and the sun.

And do this all from a secondary airport with poor access to the core market.

What could possibly go wrong?

Does anyone recall Jetsgo? Intair?

Anyone believing they are going to waltz into the Canadian market and apply what’s worked elsewhere is in for a rather rude awakening. I doubt there’s a more saturated aviation market anywhere in the western world. I would challenge anyone to come up with 3 new n/s routes in Canada that’d be viable outside peak travel periods, (arguably 100 days a year) with a 160+ seat aircraft in an environment of $60 bbl oil, without a substantial feed / flow network behind it, (and recall, network connectivity isn’t exactly the strong suit of all the various ULCC’s out there. Something to do with inflating costs......).

Launching transborder ops from the get go? See Flair for details. Their winter 2018-2019 program was a disaster. It’s already done and dusted and we haven’t even seen Easter yet. Gosh. I wonder why it failed? Doh!

Could the market be stimulated further, even with all the unavoidable, sky high taxes, fees and charges? Sure, provided the delta between new entrants costs and the incumbents is wide enough to profitably and sustainably offer low fares. Swoop is hovering around 6.4 cents casm net fuel. There’s some technicolor dreaming going on if new entrants think they’ll be meaningfully be able to get much below that.

With the same costs, which will only increase if focus is placed on Canada’s notoriously high cost airports, including YUL, YYC , YVR and of course YYZ, it’s a matter of who has the pockets to fight the war. This ain’t 1996 - 2001 when the incumbents were basket cases. They can easily withstand the fight, and with Swoop’s lower fully allocated costs, the whining to the Competition Bureau won’t get very far. I

I’ve never met an investor who is prepared to, let alone enjoys losing profuse amounts of cash fighting a battle with multiple established competitors who have economy of scale working for them, with the same cost structure in a commodity business in an already overserved market, where, unlike Europe and the US, there are no meaningful gaps / voids in the market to be exploited.

They’ll also have to coerce cheap Canadians to fork over a whole new level of ancillary fees and charges. Spirit gets well over US$50 / c$65 per trip. No one in Canada gets close to half of that amount. Canadians hate being nickel and dimed and will run to the media at the first opportunity to complain about it incessantly. Read any Cdn major news website on a slow news day to see evidence of this on a weekly basis.

Had this been the environment WJ launched into in ‘96, I seriously doubt they’d have succeeded. And I was there, front and center.

We shall see.

Blueknows wrote:

CANADA JETLINES OPERATIONS LTD. ACL 2018-034 a (Canada Jetlines 2663) One Airbus A320-200 MSN 2663 (Scheduled Delivery: On or about April 26, 2019

I don't know if it relates to this specific airframe, but Turkish media is reporting that ONUR AIR took over an A320 from NZ...

http://www.kokpit.aero/onur-air-kiralik-a320

I find it rather strange. Given the desire need for B737Max8 replacement aircraft, why didn't Smartlynx took over this Airbus (at least for the summer season) and just transfer the frame to JETLINES for the 1st Dec launch?!

I've been trying to find out info on aoc. But im not sure how it works with smartlynx

I agree with Jimbo-this venture is mission impossible. The only way this can work is if they are aware of some niche that the rest of us are unaware of.

18. SUBSEQUENT EVENTS
The following events occurred subsequent to the year ended December 31, 2018:
 The Company issued 701,250 shares for gross proceeds of $182,250 pursuant to the exercise of 701,250 stock options.
 The Company issued 7,037,555 shares for gross proceeds of $3,415,311 pursuant to the exercise of 7,037,555 share purchase warrants.
 The Company granted 250,000 RSUs which vest over three years.

Due Date
Amount
April 26, 2018
US$876,000 (paid)
June 15, 2018
US$876,000 (paid)
October 1, 2018
US$438,000 (paid)
Three business days prior to aircraft delivery
US$438,000
30
CANADA JETLINES LTD.
NOTES TO CONSOLIDATED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS DECEMBER 31, 2018
(Expressed in Canadian Dollars)
18. SUBSEQUENT EVENTS (continued)
 The Company cancelled 750,000 unvested RSUs.
 The Company executed a letter of intent with a South Korean special purpose fund (the “SPV”) led and established by InHarv Partners Ltd. for a financing of up to $14,000,000 which will consist of convertible debentures (each, a “Debenture”) and 1,785.71 variable voting share purchase warrants (each, a “Warrant”) for every $1,000 of principal of the Debentures. The initial tranche provides for gross proceeds in the amount of $7,000,000. Each Warrant is exercisable into one additional variable voting share (each, a “Warrant Share”) at an exercise price of $0.56 per Warrant Share for a period of 36 months from the date of closing.
The Debentures will have a maturity date of 36 months from the date of issuance (the “Maturity Date”) and the principal amount of the Debentures, together with any accrued and unpaid interest, will be payable on the Maturity Date, unless earlier converted. The Debentures bear interest at a rate of 10% per annum, payable in cash annually, unless earlier converted. The principal amount of the Debentures is convertible into variable voting common shares of the Company at the option of the holders at a conversion price of $0.56 per variable voting common share. The Debentures are subject to an origination fee of 5% payable in variable voting common shares based on the market price at the time of issuance of such shares. The funds will be available to the Company once certain conditions have been satisfied. The Debentures will be secured by a charge over the assets of the Company.
The closing of the Debentures is conditional on the execution of a definitive subscription agreement and the satisfaction of conditions to closing that will be contained in the subscription agreement.
 The Company executed a letter of intent with SmartLynx with respect to the lease for two Airbus A320 aircraft each for a period of five months to commence on November 1, 2019 (the “SmartLynx LOI”) and paid security deposits in the amount of US$380,000. The SmartLynx LOI is subject to executing a definitive lease agreement and other conditions customary to a transaction of this nature.
 The Company terminated the Airbus Lease Agreements (Note 17). Security deposits paid by the Company in the amount of US$2,190,000 were retained by the lessor and may be applied in the lessor’s determination as financial accommodation to potential future aircraft lease transactions between the Company and the lessor entered into prior to April 3, 2020 subject to certain conditions (Note 6).
 The Company resigned as a member of The Bootheel Project LLC and no longer has any interest in the Bootheel property (Note 8).
 The Company surrendered its interest in the CMB Silver Spruce property (Note 8).
 The Company and SmartLynx amended the escrow release conditions of the Offering completed during the year ended December 31, 2018 (Note 10). The proceeds in the amount of $7,500,000 shall be released to the Company as follows: (a) $5,250,000 upon (i) the Company completing the Funding Milestone from a subsequent financing by June 30, 2019 (such completion date subject to waiver by SmartLynx), and (ii) the receipt by Jetlines Operations from the Canada Transportation Agency an order providing an exemption from Section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act, to allow it to sell tickets for air travel; and (b) $2,250,000 upon the receipt by Jetlines Operations of its air operator certificate from Transport Canada. In addition, the Termination Fee is required to be held in escrow. The Company is obligated to pay the Termination Fee if the Company has not achieved the Funding Milestone by June 30, 2019 or commits certain other material breaches and SmartLynx terminates the underlying agreements.
 The Company granted 710,000 RSUs of which 660,000 RSUs vest over three years and 50,000 RSUs vest over one year.
 The Company granted 300,000 stock options which vest over two years.

Curious, what does that mean ?

So they paid about $2.7M CDN before terminating the original 2 320 leases and can apply that for a future lease. It’s evident the termination was done because they knew full well that they’d be leasing parked aircraft for months that would do nothing but drain their bank account.

Jetlines become launch customer for
New acro seats

https://economyclassandbeyond.boardinga ... -6lc-seat/

Here we go AC on the way with new seat.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetlines ... 00199.html

With Westjet, under Onex ownership, apparently is going to focus more on the premium market, building its business class, expanding its eastern Canada and overseas markets, and become more of a direct competitor to Air Canada, perhaps this is an ideal time for LCC airlines such as Flair and Jetlines to enter the Canadian market.

Wouldn't be the first time:

Jetlines Announces a Definitive Lease Agreement with SmartLynx for Two Airbus A320 Aircraft in Line for December Launch

https://jetlines.ca/2019/05/jetlines-an ... er-launch/

The new announcement shows they have setup with Canadian transport a review for the AOC. Ow and goodbye AIRTRANSIT. AC taking over. JETLINES looking better better

Lets buy some tickets

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... Sales.html

June 26th

https://jetlines.ca/wp-content/uploads/ ... EFINAL.pdf

kjeld0d wrote:

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*not an image

I'm pretty sure Captain Picard's reaction would be: "Make it so"

I hope these guys pull off a miracle and get going successfully. There planes look so slick.

Speedalive wrote:

I hope these guys pull off a miracle and get going successfully. There planes look so slick.

I understand Boeing's in-house marketing department put that livery together back when they were planning launch with 737s. Quite ironic if so.

Didn't know their slogan is "Flying your way". What's that supposed to mean? Aren't they flying their way?

Blueknows wrote:

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/06/12/1867414/0/en/Jetlines-Announces-Granting-of-Slots-at-Vancouver-International-Airport.html

Interesting. I would have thought they would fly out of Abbotsford because if the lower costs.

AC77X wrote:

Didn't know their slogan is "Flying your way". What's that supposed to mean? Aren't they flying their way?

Touché!

smallmj wrote:

Blueknows wrote:

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/06/12/1867414/0/en/Jetlines-Announces-Granting-of-Slots-at-Vancouver-International-Airport.html

Interesting. I would have thought they would fly out of Abbotsford because if the lower costs.

Granting of slots? Since when is YVR slot-controlled?

AC77X wrote:

Didn't know their slogan is "Flying your way". What's that supposed to mean? Aren't they flying their way?

With all the delays, one wonders if they will ever enter service. It has been many years ago since they initially said they would start service. Maybe a better slogan for them would be would be "Flying no way"

Jetlines has been at this since at least 3Q 2013 when they had many people execute long since expired NDA’s on a business plan that fundamentally hasn’t changed much over 6 years and still has yet to produce a thin dime of earned revenue, let alone an asm.

Their plan is ridden with strategic mistakes that make it obvious they have learned virtually nothing from those who have been successful before them.

There isn’t a year ‘round viable route for a 160+ seat aircraft from YVR that doesn’t already have at least 2 heavily domestic capitalized competitors already operating it, one with costs already significantly below the other.

Their start date is insane. One couldn’t pick a worse time of the year to start an airline in Canada.

On a full seasonal basis, without domestic feed and without a “Vacations” product, sun flying is a profitable venture for a couple weeks around Xmas, a week around family day, (esp now that BC family day is now consistent with the ROC), and school breaks. It’ll be a black hole the remainder of the time. See Flair for details.

They must actually believe Southwest and WestJet were actually point to point airlines in their early days.

One couldn’t pick a jurisdiction in Canada more prone to unionization than Vancouver, where “kill the rich” is mantra for most, and is now being progressively institutionalized with the NDP govt. The juniority advantage will disappear within 12 months, if they even last that long.

By being public from the get go, it’s child's play for their competitors to figure out precisely what they are doing and deal with it on a commercial basis. They are telegraphing all their passes.

I stand to be corrected but I seem to recall they have their own proprietary reservations / rms / back end systems. That’ll turn out just as well as every other airline that tried to go it on their own. Unless it was built by the same folks who developed MARS 1 and well beyond, it’ll prove to be a disaster. If it actually works, is robust and scalable, they’ll make far more money selling the system than operating an airline. But don’t hold your breath.

Who knows? Maybe they will pull off a miracle and do something correctly. It would certainly be nice to see a 3rd large airline from Canada.