TAP Portugal Plans Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, Montreal in 2020

Ishrion · Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:57 pm

https://onemileatatime.com/tap-air-port ... ions-2020/

Pretty large expansion.

upperdeckfan · Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:09 pm

IMO they should first establish yields/profitability on ORD, IAD and SFO before more NorthAm expansion.

OTOH, it seems to me they are overlooking LatAm, I see EZE, LIM and SCL with some potential from LIS, specially LIM and SCL where there are no current non-stop Star to Europe.

MIflyer12 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:29 pm

I don't see how they can make $ out of ATL. Sure, BA and LH can make ATL work but they have O&D and extensive networks to where Atlantans want to go. Lots of lots of TAP destinations onward from LIS are:

1. covered non-stop by ATL

or

2. included with DL's JV partners AF/KL/AZ, who will pick up the nationals of the respective countries.

ATL O&D to tertiary Spain, Portugal and North Africa just isn't going to fill planes at good fares.

pabloeing · Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:32 pm

Awesome expanson in USA

burnsie28 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:33 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I don't see how they can make $ out of ATL. Sure, BA and LH can make ATL work but they have O&D and extensive networks to where Atlantans want to go. Lots of lots of TAP destinations onward from LIS are:

1. covered non-stop by ATL

or

2. included with DL's JV partners AF/KL/AZ, who will pick up the nationals of the respective countries.

ATL O&D to tertiary Spain, Portugal and North Africa just isn't going to fill planes at good fares.

That could be said about any carrier in the UK that its covered by AF/KL/AZ.

Turkish and Qatar make ATL work (though how they do is up for debate).

TAP has an extensive EURO network and given that their fares are usually less than most other carriers I have seen I wouldn't be surprised to see them make ATL work.

dcajet · Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:35 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
IMO they should first establish yields/profitability on ORD, IAD and SFO before more NorthAm expansion.

OTOH, it seems to me they are overlooking LatAm, I see EZE, LIM and SCL with some potential from LIS, specially LIM and SCL where there are no current non-stop Star to Europe.

EZE was announced in 2018. I reckon the current economic slump in Argentina has given TAP second thoughts. Not if but when. TAP used to fly to EZE in the 70s with 707 equipment.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/04/19/tap ... res-route/

upperdeckfan · Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:47 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
TAP has an extensive EURO network and given that their fares are usually less than most other carriers I have seen I wouldn't be surprised to see them make ATL work.

Keep in mind that DL don't fly ATL-LIS evan though ATL has a much much much large US/Caribbean/SouthAm network when compared with TAP Euro network.

If DL can't make profit of ATL-LIS I doubt TP will.

FSDan · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:16 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
TAP has an extensive EURO network and given that their fares are usually less than most other carriers I have seen I wouldn't be surprised to see them make ATL work.

Keep in mind that DL don't fly ATL-LIS evan though ATL has a much much much large US/Caribbean/SouthAm network when compared with TAP Euro network.

If DL can't make profit of ATL-LIS I doubt TP will.

DL flew ATL-LIS last summer on the 763, but cut it this year in favor of starting BOS-LIS on the 752. I agree that doesn't bode well for TP to serve ATL-LIS successfully. Is ATL-LIS within the range of the 321LR? If that's doable, perhaps they wouldn't have to scrape too hard to fill the plane. I definitely don't see it working with an A330.

Even IAH-LIS and LAX-LIS seem like uncertain routes. LAX-Europe is arguably already overserved, and I'm not aware of anything that would connect IAH and LIS other than the Star Alliance factor... But maybe IAH-LIS would work given the absence of any airline flying from IAH to the Iberian Peninsula, and the potential for connections to some oil destinations in Africa (e.g. LAD).

Overall, I think IAH is the most likely to succeed, followed by either LAX or ATL (depending on whether ATL is 321LR or 330).

SCQ83 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:21 pm

TAP is becoming more a TK/ME3 rather than a typical European legacy.

Their business model is about connecting dots in a map by undercutting fares compared to other European carriers rather than focusing on markets with a strong O&D (which are quite limited from a secondary economy like LIS / Portugal). So exactly what Qatar or Emirates do.

Portugal is a massive bubble that is starting to crack. For instance Hainan recently chopped the only China-Portugal route (PEK-LIS; Hainan cancelling a route?; and even they codeshared with TAP) and Ryanair is in the process of cutting routes in OPO.

1836Sam · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:25 pm

FSDan wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
TAP has an extensive EURO network and given that their fares are usually less than most other carriers I have seen I wouldn't be surprised to see them make ATL work.

Keep in mind that DL don't fly ATL-LIS evan though ATL has a much much much large US/Caribbean/SouthAm network when compared with TAP Euro network.

If DL can't make profit of ATL-LIS I doubt TP will.

DL flew ATL-LIS last summer on the 763, but cut it this year in favor of starting BOS-LIS on the 752. I agree that doesn't bode well for TP to serve ATL-LIS successfully. Is ATL-LIS within the range of the 321LR? If that's doable, perhaps they wouldn't have to scrape too hard to fill the plane. I definitely don't see it working with an A330.

Even IAH-LIS and LAX-LIS seem like uncertain routes. LAX-Europe is arguably already overserved, and I'm not aware of anything that would connect IAH and LIS other than the Star Alliance factor... But maybe IAH-LIS would work given the absence of any airline flying from IAH to the Iberian Peninsula, and the potential for connections to some oil destinations in Africa (e.g. LAD).

Overall, I think IAH is the most likely to succeed, followed by either LAX or ATL (depending on whether ATL is 321LR or 330).

Until I read it recently I didn’t realize TP had such a large network in Africa now, with more destinations than SN, but of course the network is skewed towards shorter haul.

Strange the possibility that IAH would have a nonstop to LIS ahead of MAD, but TATL airfares at these JV hubs (like ATL and IAH) without much competition are quite high. Perhaps there’s a role to fill seasonally when demand is high.

tkoenig95 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:27 pm

Really hoping IAH is a concrete add. It seems to be a market that airlines announce they want to serve long term, but fruition of the route doesn't happen to bud. Right now it looks like ET and TP are wanting to launch IAH along with the ever-looming rumor of MU to PVG.

Duartelmatos · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:30 pm

FSDan wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
TAP has an extensive EURO network and given that their fares are usually less than most other carriers I have seen I wouldn't be surprised to see them make ATL work.

Keep in mind that DL don't fly ATL-LIS evan though ATL has a much much much large US/Caribbean/SouthAm network when compared with TAP Euro network.

If DL can't make profit of ATL-LIS I doubt TP will.

DL flew ATL-LIS last summer on the 763, but cut it this year in favor of starting BOS-LIS on the 752. I agree that doesn't bode well for TP to serve ATL-LIS successfully. Is ATL-LIS within the range of the 321LR? If that's doable, perhaps they wouldn't have to scrape too hard to fill the plane. I definitely don't see it working with an A330.

Even IAH-LIS and LAX-LIS seem like uncertain routes. LAX-Europe is arguably already overserved, and I'm not aware of anything that would connect IAH and LIS other than the Star Alliance factor... But maybe IAH-LIS would work given the absence of any airline flying from IAH to the Iberian Peninsula, and the potential for connections to some oil destinations in Africa (e.g. LAD).

Overall, I think IAH is the most likely to succeed, followed by either LAX or ATL (depending on whether ATL is 321LR or 330).

I think IAH-LIS will work beacause of LAD-LIS. There are a lot of people flying from Luanda to Houston.

ac33e · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:36 pm

YUL is great, but AC & JV will be competing for that same feed with TP. This may mean loss of connectivity on AC in Canada, which may not make it so desirable. The O&D is in large part served by TS on this route, with AC probably having to rely on connecting traffic to fill up the route. TP may just as well be the one who doesn't manage to keep afloat on this route.

avek00 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:37 pm

I like TP, but I'm not so sure the aggressive North American expansion will work out well. For starters, TP lacks a JV with a North American partner, limiting competitive feed opportunities beyond (most of) its USA/CAN destinations. Also, connecting times at LIS have to get much more competitive -- using the new IAD-LIS flight as an example, over half of the more popular destinations for US-origin travelers require a LIS layover in excess of three hours most days of the week (and don't get me started on the likes of WAW, CPH, HEL, BUD, etc. where TP mostly runs red-eyes, so 10-15 hour waits at LIS would be necessary).

1836Sam · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:38 pm

Duartelmatos wrote:
FSDan wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:

Keep in mind that DL don't fly ATL-LIS evan though ATL has a much much much large US/Caribbean/SouthAm network when compared with TAP Euro network.

If DL can't make profit of ATL-LIS I doubt TP will.

DL flew ATL-LIS last summer on the 763, but cut it this year in favor of starting BOS-LIS on the 752. I agree that doesn't bode well for TP to serve ATL-LIS successfully. Is ATL-LIS within the range of the 321LR? If that's doable, perhaps they wouldn't have to scrape too hard to fill the plane. I definitely don't see it working with an A330.

Even IAH-LIS and LAX-LIS seem like uncertain routes. LAX-Europe is arguably already overserved, and I'm not aware of anything that would connect IAH and LIS other than the Star Alliance factor... But maybe IAH-LIS would work given the absence of any airline flying from IAH to the Iberian Peninsula, and the potential for connections to some oil destinations in Africa (e.g. LAD).

Overall, I think IAH is the most likely to succeed, followed by either LAX or ATL (depending on whether ATL is 321LR or 330).

I think IAH-LIS will work beacause of LAD-LIS. There are a lot of people flying from Luanda to Houston.

Did TP ever fly to SSG?

Duartelmatos · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:44 pm

1836Sam wrote:
Duartelmatos wrote:
FSDan wrote:

DL flew ATL-LIS last summer on the 763, but cut it this year in favor of starting BOS-LIS on the 752. I agree that doesn't bode well for TP to serve ATL-LIS successfully. Is ATL-LIS within the range of the 321LR? If that's doable, perhaps they wouldn't have to scrape too hard to fill the plane. I definitely don't see it working with an A330.

Even IAH-LIS and LAX-LIS seem like uncertain routes. LAX-Europe is arguably already overserved, and I'm not aware of anything that would connect IAH and LIS other than the Star Alliance factor... But maybe IAH-LIS would work given the absence of any airline flying from IAH to the Iberian Peninsula, and the potential for connections to some oil destinations in Africa (e.g. LAD).

Overall, I think IAH is the most likely to succeed, followed by either LAX or ATL (depending on whether ATL is 321LR or 330).

I think IAH-LIS will work beacause of LAD-LIS. There are a lot of people flying from Luanda to Houston.

Did TP ever fly to SSG?

The capital of Angola is Luanda (LAD) and not Malabo...

AlexBrewster03 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:44 pm

IDC what people said, I’m glad TAP is going for ATL. It’s about time ATL got a new international carrier and I really hope TAP can make it work. It can be seasonal and/or a few times a week, I just hope it works.

1836Sam · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:47 pm

Duartelmatos wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
Duartelmatos wrote:

I think IAH-LIS will work beacause of LAD-LIS. There are a lot of people flying from Luanda to Houston.

Did TP ever fly to SSG?

The capital of Angola is Luanda (LAD) and not Malabo...

What in that made you think I thought it was?

I seem to recall TP serving SSG at one point. There is solid high-value traffic between IAH and SSG in the same vein as LAD, although of course not as large.

airbazar · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:49 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
TAP has an extensive EURO network and given that their fares are usually less than most other carriers I have seen I wouldn't be surprised to see them make ATL work.

Keep in mind that DL don't fly ATL-LIS evan though ATL has a much much much large US/Caribbean/SouthAm network when compared with TAP Euro network.

If DL can't make profit of ATL-LIS I doubt TP will.

Here we go, if DL can't make it no one else can. People here act like ATL is untouchable. DL is having a hard time filling a 752 from BOS in peak Summer time and at lower fares than TP, while TP fills an A330 to the rim. And BOS is a Delta hub.
I don't think they will have much of a problem filling an A321 3 or 4x a week from ATL. I also don't think DL will feel as threatened by TP as they would by a larger carrier and feel the need to "protect its turf". I feel that ATL-Europe is underserved, If people a willing to fly ATL-Europe via IST that should tell you that there is more demand than supply for ATL-Europe.
I'm skeptical about IAH and to some extent LAX too. Those are A330 routes and that's more seats to fill but I'm sure they've done their math and seen what kind of connecting traffic they are getting today via UA and B6 feed.

Cointrin330 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:49 pm

ATL is a head scratcher. They will have zero feed in ATL and competition from DL. The A330 seems like too much plane for this market.

upperdeckfan · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:49 pm

FSDan wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
TAP has an extensive EURO network and given that their fares are usually less than most other carriers I have seen I wouldn't be surprised to see them make ATL work.

Keep in mind that DL don't fly ATL-LIS evan though ATL has a much much much large US/Caribbean/SouthAm network when compared with TAP Euro network.

If DL can't make profit of ATL-LIS I doubt TP will.

Even IAH-LIS and LAX-LIS seem like uncertain routes. LAX-Europe is arguably already overserved, and I'm not aware of anything that would connect IAH and LIS other than the Star Alliance factor... But maybe IAH-LIS would work given the absence of any airline flying from IAH to the Iberian Peninsula, and the potential for connections to some oil destinations in Africa (e.g. LAD).

Overall, I think IAH is the most likely to succeed, followed by either LAX or ATL (depending on whether ATL is 321LR or 330).

That's a great point, as neither IB or UA fly MAD-IAH there might be room for success.

Just playing armchair CEO here, with all new equipment coming they could add LIS-LOS and LIS-LBV to serve oil&gas traffic out of IAH. I think both are within A321LR range.

Duartelmatos · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:50 pm

I’m sorry. I did actually. They don’t operate to SSG. Maybe in the future...

lavalampluva · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:52 pm

They should be showing love to DTW, since there are more Portuguese in Detroit than Portugal.

:stirthepot:

AlexBrewster03 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:56 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
ATL is a head scratcher. They will have zero feed in ATL and competition from DL. The A330 seems like too much plane for this market.

If the A321LR can reach ATL, then it would be the perfect summer seasonal add. Or an A330 2-4x a week. Plus, TAP would have ATL-LIS all to themselves. DL can be beat, which is shown with QR and TK.

IAHWorldflyer · Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:00 pm

I can see their interest in IAH because the Atlas Air charters that flew 3-4x a week from IAH to LAD were cancelled this year. With the downturn in oil prices, there were not enough employees to fill a 744 to LAD, but there are still business travelers going to LAD from IAH every week .Plus, as was said upthread, this would give the IAH market a decent connection into the Iberian peninsula, and with Star connections, they can probably make it work in Summer, less so in Winter.
YUL should work with an A321, plus Star connections. Plus a decent amount of North African diaspora in Montreal that they can tap into. ATL might be tough. DL is a formidable competitor, and doesn't like other's coming onto their turf.

Pyrex · Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Flights to LAD already go out full to the brim, and there are limited traffic rights for additional ones, so doubt those connections are enough to make a IAH flight work, unless TP is willing to repurpose a portion of their fleet in a high-J configuration and print even more money on the LAD flights.

That said, between UA feed plus connections to Spain and North Africa, as well as a loyal Star Alliance client base, I can see the IAH route doing well. Also, isn't TP launching Malabo soon?

1836Sam · Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:37 pm

Pyrex wrote:
That said, between UA feed plus connections to Spain and North Africa, as well as a loyal Star Alliance client base, I can see the IAH route doing well. Also, isn't TP launching Malabo soon?

Glad I'm not the only one who has that idea in my head . . .

Maybe they said they were and never started.

pipeafcr · Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:42 pm

If they couldn’t make BOG and PTY work I doubt they’ll have it any easier to make ATL perform any better

airbazar · Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:42 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Flights to LAD already go out full to the brim, and there are limited traffic rights for additional ones, so doubt those connections are enough to make a IAH flight work, unless TP is willing to repurpose a portion of their fleet in a high-J configuration and print even more money on the LAD flights.

That said, between UA feed plus connections to Spain and North Africa, as well as a loyal Star Alliance client base, I can see the IAH route doing well. Also, isn't TP launching Malabo soon?

I don't believe TP has maxed its number of frequencies to LAD. I think they only operate 1 daily flight but they have at least 12 weekly frequencies, IIRC.
They are thinking about increasing the number of frequencies for the Summer:
https://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/t ... ara-angola
There is also talk of adding a new destination in Angola (Benguela):
https://www.sapo.pt/noticias/internacio ... 059262886a
But I don't think TP is after the U.S.-Africa traffic. It doesn't lineup with their operations. Connections would be terrible because these flights to Angola are red-eyes departing very late at night while U.S. arrivals arrive early in the morning. TP's expansion in the U.S. is all about capturing U.S.-Europe traffic at a price point that is slightly lower than what is practiced by the legacy carriers.

Thomaas · Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:48 pm

ac33e wrote:
YUL is great, but AC & JV will be competing for that same feed with TP. This may mean loss of connectivity on AC in Canada, which may not make it so desirable. The O&D is in large part served by TS on this route, with AC probably having to rely on connecting traffic to fill up the route. TP may just as well be the one who doesn't manage to keep afloat on this route.

AC has caved on YYZ-LIS, serving it 5x weekly instead of daily like they've done for the last few summers before TAP started the route. I wonder what will happen once TAP is on YUL-LIS. I'd see AC cancelling the 3x weekly route and bringing YYZ-LIS back to daily as I doubt there's enough demand for 3 airlines. YUL-WAW or YUL-BUD would be a great way to redeploy the capacity.

LAXdude1023 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:49 pm

airbazar wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Flights to LAD already go out full to the brim, and there are limited traffic rights for additional ones, so doubt those connections are enough to make a IAH flight work, unless TP is willing to repurpose a portion of their fleet in a high-J configuration and print even more money on the LAD flights.

That said, between UA feed plus connections to Spain and North Africa, as well as a loyal Star Alliance client base, I can see the IAH route doing well. Also, isn't TP launching Malabo soon?

I don't believe TP has maxed its number of frequencies to LAD. I think they only operate 1 daily flight but they have at least 12 weekly frequencies, IIRC.
They are thinking about increasing the number of frequencies for the Summer:
https://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/t ... ara-angola
There is also talk of adding a new destination in Angola (Benguela):
https://www.sapo.pt/noticias/internacio ... 059262886a
But I don't think TP is after the U.S.-Africa traffic. It doesn't lineup with their operations. Connections would be terrible because these flights to Angola are red-eyes departing very late at night while U.S. arrivals arrive early in the morning. TP's expansion in the U.S. is all about capturing U.S.-Europe traffic at a price point that is slightly lower than what is practiced by the legacy carriers.

TP's LIS-LAD is a daytime flight. It would fit a US connection perfectly.

After all, IAH-LAD was flown nonstop for decades. I have no doubt that capturing this market is part of the motivation for launching IAH. Not the whole thing but part of it.

MAH4546 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:53 pm

Too much, too fast. Montreal is the only solid add here, assuming any of it happens.

They'll have enough trouble with the SFO/ORD/IAD adds this year.

FSDan · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:04 pm

airbazar wrote:
I feel that ATL-Europe is underserved, If people a willing to fly ATL-Europe via IST that should tell you that there is more demand than supply for ATL-Europe.

I don't think TK is such a brightly shining star at ATL... Since the route started, they've cut the frequency and reduced the gauge to the smallest aircraft they have that can fly the route (332), and I think I remember someone posting data that showed ATL is one of their weaker U.S. routes from the LF perspective. That said, the case of TK at ATL is proof that DL will not necessarily compete against a new entrant if they feel the market isn't worth protecting.

ac33e · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:08 pm

Thomaas wrote:
ac33e wrote:
YUL is great, but AC & JV will be competing for that same feed with TP. This may mean loss of connectivity on AC in Canada, which may not make it so desirable. The O&D is in large part served by TS on this route, with AC probably having to rely on connecting traffic to fill up the route. TP may just as well be the one who doesn't manage to keep afloat on this route.

AC has caved on YYZ-LIS, serving it 5x weekly instead of daily like they've done for the last few summers before TAP started the route. I wonder what will happen once TAP is on YUL-LIS. I'd see AC cancelling the 3x weekly route and bringing YYZ-LIS back to daily as I doubt there's enough demand for 3 airlines. YUL-WAW or YUL-BUD would be a great way to redeploy the capacity.

The Portuguese community in Montreal is huge. It is more deeply rooted than the Polish and Hungarian ones, which is why TS has been flying to both OPO and LIS for years and AC more recently to LIS.

Duartelmatos · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:15 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Too much, too fast. Montreal is the only solid add here, assuming any of it happens.

They'll have enough trouble with the SFO/ORD/IAD adds this year.

The sales are actually going very well...

vadodara · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:18 pm

DFW maybe a better choice than ATL; having said that, AA-IB probably takes care off the connecting traffic thru MAD.

MAH4546 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Duartelmatos wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Too much, too fast. Montreal is the only solid add here, assuming any of it happens.

They'll have enough trouble with the SFO/ORD/IAD adds this year.

The sales are actually going very well...

I'm sure they are. The fares have been dirt cheap.

Nicknuzzii · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:23 pm

How do they do with their EWR service? Anyone know the LFs?

babastud · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:25 pm

ATL-LIS on TAP, don't see this one sticking around a long time. Straight O+D on ATL side which it cannot support.

airbazar · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:31 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
TP's LIS-LAD is a daytime flight. It would fit a US connection perfectly.

After all, IAH-LAD was flown nonstop for decades. I have no doubt that capturing this market is part of the motivation for launching IAH. Not the whole thing but part of it.

Nope, red-eye.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP ... /LPPT/FNLU

MAH4546 wrote:
Duartelmatos wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Too much, too fast. Montreal is the only solid add here, assuming any of it happens.
They'll have enough trouble with the SFO/ORD/IAD adds this year.

The sales are actually going very well...

I'm sure they are. The fares have been dirt cheap.

They're introductory fares. Same as everyone else. I bought a ticket on DL BOS-LIS for this Summer for $440 all included. I don't expect to pay that little next year.
SFO may be tricky to maintain year round. ORD and IAD should continue to do well. an A321 to IAd is a no-brainer and ORD could go to A321 as well.
Any route where they have to operate with an A330 because of range and have no connection feed will be tricky in the off-season.

EvanWSFO · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:31 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
They should be showing love to DTW, since there are more Portuguese in Detroit than Portugal.

I assume this is sarcasm, because it's not factual.

flymco753 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:33 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
They should be showing love to DTW, since there are more Portuguese in Detroit than Portugal.

I assume this is sarcasm, because it's not factual.

They most definitely seem sarcastic, because the real amount is minuscule.

Duartelmatos · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:44 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Duartelmatos wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Too much, too fast. Montreal is the only solid add here, assuming any of it happens.

They'll have enough trouble with the SFO/ORD/IAD adds this year.

The sales are actually going very well...

I'm sure they are. The fares have been dirt cheap.

I don’t find 800€ cheap for LIS-ORD-LIS.
Moreover, we need to consider that they have low operational costs with new aircrafts not having ancient planes flying this routes. Besides minor things like only puting 9 cabin crew in a330 or even the distance...

Duartelmatos · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:49 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
How do they do with their EWR service? Anyone know the LFs?

TAP has been operating EWR for many years. They are even adding frequencies from Oporto (6xweek/A321LR) and continuing the daily flight from Lisbon with A330-200.
The flight is always full as well as Boston, Miami and JFK. They are even trying to get more frequencies to MIA but Lisbon Airport has no slots. We will see what will happen.

1836Sam · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:51 pm

airbazar wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
TP's LIS-LAD is a daytime flight. It would fit a US connection perfectly.

After all, IAH-LAD was flown nonstop for decades. I have no doubt that capturing this market is part of the motivation for launching IAH. Not the whole thing but part of it.

Nope, red-eye.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP ... /LPPT/FNLU

For 2019:

46 departures leaving 1220

60 at 1345

113 at 2310

174 at 2335

So not exclusively redeye, about 25% daytime

Duartelmatos · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:53 pm

1836Sam wrote:
airbazar wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
TP's LIS-LAD is a daytime flight. It would fit a US connection perfectly.

After all, IAH-LAD was flown nonstop for decades. I have no doubt that capturing this market is part of the motivation for launching IAH. Not the whole thing but part of it.

Nope, red-eye.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP ... /LPPT/FNLU

For 2019:

46 departures leaving 1220

60 at 1345

113 at 2310

174 at 2335

So not exclusively redeye, about 25% daytime

They must operate two daily flights when IAH starts, I guess.

MAH4546 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:53 pm

Duartelmatos wrote:
he flight is always full as well as Boston, Miami and JFK. They are even trying to get more frequencies to MIA but Lisbon Airport has no slots. We will see what will happen.

I think an A321LR can squeeze in MIA-OPO. Could be an interesting add, although I personally don't really think TAP needs to add even more frequency into the crowded Miami-Europe market.

boeingbus · Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:06 pm

MAH4546 wrote:

I'm sure they are. The fares have been dirt cheap.

Why does everybody have to be a debbie downer? jeesh! Maybe they have lower costs and more efficient jets than anyone else, that they can price their seats lowers.

DLvsWN · Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:07 pm

ATL-LIS is a completely different market for TAP than for DL. DL is counting on US to Portugal; TAP is counting on ATL to Europe/North Africa. It's hard to find data supporting this, but I'd be surprised if the former market is larger than the latter, either in terms of sheer numbers and in fares. Especially since the big Portuguese markets of Boston and NYC wouldn't use ATL.

This is basically like Icelandair serving Atlanta, and upon such announcements we don't see a flood of "but xyz hub carrier could never make KEF work in a million years!" posts.

SCQ83 · Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:10 pm

I doubt LAD is so profitable today. Iberia and British cancelled LAD recently and if I recall correctly Emirates reduced frequencies. The days of carriers begging for new flights to LAD are long gone.

Of course in the case of Portugal there is a large community of Portuguese economic migrants in Angola and many Angolans in Portugal and in Europe. But that is VFR traffic, not oil exec.

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