Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
CriticalPoint wrote:Wow
Major props to the airliners.net community for finding out the cause of the ET crash within 12hrs.
And then quickly implementing a worldwide grounding of 300+ aircraft.
You have saved a lot of lives today airplane fans.....bravo!
CriticalPoint wrote:Wow
Major props to the airliners.net community for finding out the cause of the ET crash within 12hrs.
And then quickly implementing a worldwide grounding of 300+ aircraft.
You have saved a lot of lives today airplane fans.....bravo!
TTailedTiger wrote:No, these developing countries have crashed numerous 737NG and A320 aircraft. No one called for grounding those fleets.
Zaf wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:No, these developing countries have crashed numerous 737NG and A320 aircraft. No one called for grounding those fleets.
But those were pilot errors and bad maintenance. The MAX keeps diving and pilots can't do anything about it.
Zaf wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:No, these developing countries have crashed numerous 737NG and A320 aircraft. No one called for grounding those fleets.
But those were pilot errors and bad maintenance. The MAX keeps diving and pilots can't do anything about it.
14ccKemiskt wrote:The accidents are so eerily similar that I for sure won't wait for months and months for a report that MIGHT say that the accidents are unrelated to the design of the MAX. I'm not flying on the MAX until I have seen proof that they ARE unrelated.
sldispatcher wrote:I would think the outstanding pilots at UAL, AAL and WN along with their skilled technical folks would already have picked up on even the slightest concern and requested that it be addressed or brought to someone's attention. I would also believe the folks at the FAA need the opportunity to review any of the hard data as well.
I say let the investigation play out. Let the real experts handle the decisions. Any sudden reaction from a multi-national company travel policy is no less short-sighted than any of the recent knee jerk reactions to social justice causes that were based on emotion and not fact. Thank goodness millennials don't run everything.
Zaf wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:No, these developing countries have crashed numerous 737NG and A320 aircraft. No one called for grounding those fleets.
But those were pilot errors and bad maintenance. The MAX keeps diving and pilots can't do anything about it.
casinterest wrote:We don't know what caused either crash. A grounding is premature.
For those that point to the 787, the batteries overheated, and caught fire. People knew the cause of the issue.
These two planes have crashed due to much more complicated factors that need to be investigated. The only thing to do is wait for the investigations to release their findings and directives. There are now hundreds of flights a day that are successful on the 737 max, so we really need to wait to see if this is a horrible coincidence of two planes crashing, or if there is an airframe/software/pilot training issue that needs to be addressed.
cpd wrote:Let's wait and see what happens, but let's also not try to shut down discussion right away. Talking about the grounding of a type is off-topic to a discussion about a particular crash.
oschkosch wrote:Well IMHO what will happen starting Monday is the following:
Larger Multinational companies will issue travel warnings to all employees, requesting them to avoid flying on the Max with immediate effect.
That will then lead to an indirect grounding, as Max operating airlines will see extreme revenue loses. That in turn will lead to airlines self grounding the Max before Boeing and/or FAA take any action.
I work for a company that has a few 100 thousand employees globally. I can see the email coming asap.
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Arion640 wrote:in the crash thread someone of a FT500 company has confirmed receipt of such an email.... And so the grounding starts.oschkosch wrote:Well IMHO what will happen starting Monday is the following:
Larger Multinational companies will issue travel warnings to all employees, requesting them to avoid flying on the Max with immediate effect.
That will then lead to an indirect grounding, as Max operating airlines will see extreme revenue loses. That in turn will lead to airlines self grounding the Max before Boeing and/or FAA take any action.
I work for a company that has a few 100 thousand employees globally. I can see the email coming asap.
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I work for a large company like yourself with a similar amount of employees, but i can’t see any email coming around tomorrow.
32andBelow wrote:Lion air would crash any aircraft type. And my money is on bomb for this one.
CriticalPoint wrote:Zaf wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:No, these developing countries have crashed numerous 737NG and A320 aircraft. No one called for grounding those fleets.
But those were pilot errors and bad maintenance. The MAX keeps diving and pilots can't do anything about it.
The pilots can complete their immediate action items and cut off the automatic trim......the pilots at United, American and Southwest can complete this procedure without crashing, you know why? Because of world class training, before I ground an entire type I would consider the two airlines at play and their experience and training culture.
If any of you knew even 10% of the Flight manual bulletins and training bulletins pilots in the US get We would need 100 more 1000 post threads. Did lion air pilots and Ethiopian pilots get the same training bulletins and flight manual bulletins?
CriticalPoint wrote:Zaf wrote:TTailedTiger wrote:No, these developing countries have crashed numerous 737NG and A320 aircraft. No one called for grounding those fleets.
But those were pilot errors and bad maintenance. The MAX keeps diving and pilots can't do anything about it.
The pilots can complete their immediate action items and cut off the automatic trim......the pilots at United, American and Southwest can complete this procedure without crashing, you know why? Because of world class training, before I ground an entire type I would consider the two airlines at play and their experience and training culture.
If any of you knew even 10% of the Flight manual bulletins and training bulletins pilots in the US get We would need 100 more 1000 post threads. Did lion air pilots and Ethiopian pilots get the same training bulletins and flight manual bulletins?
CALMSP wrote:we went through a worldwide grounding of the 787, i would say something is coming soon for the MAX.
sldispatcher wrote:I would think the outstanding pilots at UAL, AAL and WN along with their skilled technical folks would already have picked up on even the slightest concern and requested that it be addressed or brought to someone's attention. I would also believe the folks at the FAA need the opportunity to review any of the hard data as well.
oschkosch wrote:Well IMHO what will happen starting Monday is the following:
Larger Multinational companies will issue travel warnings to all employees, requesting them to avoid flying on the Max with immediate effect.
That will then lead to an indirect grounding, as Max operating airlines will see extreme revenue loses. That in turn will lead to airlines self grounding the Max before Boeing and/or FAA take any action.
I work for a company that has a few 100 thousand employees globally. I can see the email coming asap.
Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk
maps4ltd wrote:I have an American MAX 8 flight next week, so I hope it doesn't get grounded.
BaconButty wrote:I doubt we need a grounding, but there are some concerning aspects of MCAS that warrant some official reassurance (if there is any to be had) or some operating decisions. The way I see it, it's very unlikely that MCAS will cause an accident in the same manner as JT610 again now that's it's behaviour is understood - hope I don't get proved wrong as the factos of this last accident emerge.
However - MCAS is there for a reason (stability in pitch at cruise). And it's dependent on the AOA sensor and Pitot tubes with no seeming strategy for redundancy. So imagine a situation where you lose one of them in cruise. MCAS causes a sort-of runaway trim. Not to worry, the pilot will now pull the plug on it - jolly good. However you've now lost an important protection right at the point the pilot may need it most. We're in an AF447 situation, we've got unreliable airspeed or no AOA indication, and pull back on the yoke a little and because the aircraft is not stable in pitch - stall.
As an interested layman, this isn't a good situation - frankly I'm amazed it was certified. And I think it warranted more communication from Boeing, the FAA and the NTSB. I'm not saying that all Max's should be grounded, it may be that a reduction in operating altitude would address the issue. But all we got was that disturbing statement from Boeing attempting to immediately lay the blame on the customer - not the attitude to safety I imagine most of us would like to see.
AEROFAN wrote:oschkosch wrote:Well IMHO what will happen starting Monday is the following:
Larger Multinational companies will issue travel warnings to all employees, requesting them to avoid flying on the Max with immediate effect.
That will then lead to an indirect grounding, as Max operating airlines will see extreme revenue loses. That in turn will lead to airlines self grounding the Max before Boeing and/or FAA take any action.
I work for a company that has a few 100 thousand employees globally. I can see the email coming asap.
Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk
How do you know if your flight is on a Max? Are all 737-800 Max?
maps4ltd wrote:I have an American MAX 8 flight next week, so I hope it doesn't get grounded.
bob75013 wrote:AEROFAN wrote:oschkosch wrote:Well IMHO what will happen starting Monday is the following:
Larger Multinational companies will issue travel warnings to all employees, requesting them to avoid flying on the Max with immediate effect.
That will then lead to an indirect grounding, as Max operating airlines will see extreme revenue loses. That in turn will lead to airlines self grounding the Max before Boeing and/or FAA take any action.
I work for a company that has a few 100 thousand employees globally. I can see the email coming asap.
Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk
How do you know if your flight is on a Max? Are all 737-800 Max?
Ahh a 737-800 is not a 737 Max8
AEROFAN wrote:bob75013 wrote:AEROFAN wrote:
How do you know if your flight is on a Max? Are all 737-800 Max?
Ahh a 737-800 is not a 737 Max8
It may not be, but how does someone purchasing a ticket on an airline supposed to know this? What designation would AA or any airline use to provide this information to the public when purchasing a ticket given that both are variants of the 800 series?
AEROFAN wrote:bob75013 wrote:AEROFAN wrote:
How do you know if your flight is on a Max? Are all 737-800 Max?
Ahh a 737-800 is not a 737 Max8
It may not be, but how does someone purchasing a ticket on an airline supposed to know this? What designation would AA or any airline use to provide this information to the public when purchasing a ticket given that both are variants of the 800 series?