Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes enroute to Nairobi Q1 2019

Qatara340 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:24 am

Breaking: Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX crashes on route to Nairobi! Second fatal crash of a 737MAX.

Source: PM of Ethiopia account in twitter

zackary747 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:27 am

Wow this is sad and unfortunate. Washington Post story below.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/af ... a9fd1bd1d5

JannEejit · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:33 am

Just got a news flash from BBC News app. Oh oh ! BBC News - Ethiopian airliner crashes on way to Kenya
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-47513508

JQ321 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:35 am

Hopefully not related at all to the JT610 Crash . However, all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined as seen in these two crashes there may be a design flaw. My condolences to all affected.

AS737MAX · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:36 am

Appears to be ET302 from ADD-NBO: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ETH ... HAAB/HKJK; ET-AVJ per FR24: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/et302

Frame was delivered November 15, 2018.

Terrible for all involved.

Atlwarrior · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:39 am

Wow! What was the weather conditions?

345tas · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:39 am

A very brief playback on FR24 seems to show fluctuations in vertical speed just after take-off.

Jouhou · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:40 am

JQ321 wrote:
Hopefully not related at all to the JT610 Crash . However, all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined as seen in these two crashes there may be a design flaw. My condolences to all affected.

...is it a design flaw if it's intentional? They put the engines too far forward and have to rely on an apparently flawed electronic system to compensate. That said, we have zero details so far...

It's been some rough days lately for aviation, hope to hear some better news.

bcbhokie · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:46 am

149 passengers and 8 crew onboard. Seems to have crashed shortly after takeoff (6 minutes or so into the flight), according to the statement from ET:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1SNEeMWkAA ... ame=medium

Condolences to all involved.

VSMUT · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:47 am

345tas wrote:
A very brief playback on FR24 seems to show fluctuations in vertical speed just after take-off.

Could that be MCAS problems again?

a320fan · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:48 am

How unfortunate. Very few details at this stage, so wishing well for the occupants.
What a terrible start for the MAX.

Unfortunately Ethiopian seem to have made a PR blunder by posting promotional pictures of a smiling flight attendant on their twitter feed, whilst yet to make any statement regarding the crash now making international news.

LAX772LR · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:50 am

JQ321 wrote:
all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined

....jump the gun much?

conflats · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:50 am

Aircraft is ET-AVJ delivered in middle of November 2018

Finn350 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:54 am

VSMUT wrote:
345tas wrote:
A very brief playback on FR24 seems to show fluctuations in vertical speed just after take-off.

Could that be MCAS problems again?

Very sad news. It could be an MCAS problem, but frankly there is not enough information to reach conclusions at this early stage.

There were reports Boeing was developing a software fix for the MCAS after JT610, but apparently the fix is not ready yet, or at least not deployed.

bmibaby737 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:56 am

Ethiopian Airlines regrets to confirm that its flight ET 302/10 March in schedule service from Addis Ababa to Nairobi was involved in an accident today around Bishoftu (Debre Zeit).

The aircraft B-737-800MAX with registration number ET- AVJ took off at 08:38 am local time from Addis Ababa, Bole International Airport and lost contact at 08:44am. At this time search and rescue operations are in progress and we have no confirmed information about survivors or any possible causalities. Ethiopian Airlines staff will be sent to the accident scene and will do everything possible to assist the emergency services.

It is believed that there were 149 passengers and 8 crew onboard the flight but we are currently confirming the details of the passenger manifest for the flight.

https://www.ethiopianairlines.com/corpo ... test-press

seat64k · Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:57 am

BBC News' (initially mostly empty) story is developing, although nothing relevant that isn't in this thread already:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47513508

Someone already has a WIkipedia page up too!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_302

Veigar · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:04 am

Genuinely don't know what to say here, we'll just need to wait for more info.

log0008 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:05 am

If I was a 737Max operator i'd be having some serious discussions right now.

Armodeen · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:06 am

LAX772LR wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined

....jump the gun much?

Tbh in this case knowing what we know about this incident right now I don’t think he is jumping the gun.

RIP to those involved.

5427247845 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:06 am

Damn.... RIP

EmoticonsAllDay · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:07 am

So much for the impeccable saftey record of the 737 family. I'm not flying any MAX planes until the problem is definitely resolved. Better to be safe than sorry.

Flyingdevil737 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:07 am

Another one bites the dust...

A damn shame it had to be another MAX.

My money is on that this is related to JT610.

Condolences to all those involved and their families....

Zoedyn · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:07 am

I was stunned to learn of the news right after my getting out of the swimming pool

Condolences to all involved

Too much of a blow to ET, the booming African flagship carrier

Dying to know the causes

frigatebird · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:07 am

Usually when I book a flight I try to book one with an aircraft I’ve never been on, or a new type. With the 737MAX, I had some doubts after JT610. Now, with another MAX crash, I will avoid this type until everything is known about the causes, and a fix should be in place on all aircraft if this was another MACS or any software related issue. I know some people will criticise me, but since 2 decades or so new aircraft have been proven much safer than their predecessors. With the MAX I feel the opposite is the case. The MAX must have one of the worst safety records of any modern plane, 2 fatal crashes within a year or so after EIS?

LY777 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:10 am

frigatebird wrote:
Usually when I book a flight I try to book one with an aircraft I’ve never been on, or a new type. With the 737MAX, I had some doubts after JT610. Now, with another MAX crash, I will avoid this type until everything is known about the causes, and a fix should be in place on all aircraft if this was another MACS or some any software related issue. I know some people will criticise me, but since 2 decades or so new aircraft have been proven much safer than their predecessors. With the MAX I feel the opposite is the case. The MAX must have one of the worst safety records of any modern plane, 2 fatal crashes within a year or so after EIS?

As much as I love the 737, I agree with you.
I also avoid the A320neo until the engine issues are over for good.

alggag · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:11 am

Armodeen wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined

....jump the gun much?

Tbh in this case knowing what we know about this incident right now I don’t think he is jumping the gun.

RIP to those involved.

Frankly I'm thinking along the same lines (that he is not jumping the gun). I suspect there will be serious discussions in the coming days about parking the MAX until it becomes clear on what is going on.

B747forever · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:11 am

Zoedyn wrote:

Too much of a blow to ET, the booming African flagship carrier

I feel really sorry for ET. Hope this crash won’t tarnish their brand as they have worked really hard to build it up the past few years.

Flying Belgian · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:14 am

Jouhou wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
Hopefully not related at all to the JT610 Crash . However, all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined as seen in these two crashes there may be a design flaw. My condolences to all affected.

...is it a design flaw if it's intentional? They put the engines too far forward and have to rely on an apparently flawed electronic system to compensate. That said, we have zero details so far...

It's been some rough days lately for aviation, hope to hear some better news.

Interesting statement. Was this theory developed by anyone else ?

Maybe Boeing has pushed the 737 concept a "bit" too far...

EmoticonsAllDay · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:14 am

B747forever wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:

Too much of a blow to ET, the booming African flagship carrier

I feel really sorry for ET. Hope this crash won’t tarnish their brand as they have worked really hard to build it up the past few years.

I'm positive that ET is not at fault here. They always have Boeing to throw under the bus just in case. After all 2 crashes of the same plane in a very short period of time. Reminds me of the DC10 times.

Miquel787 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:14 am

A lot of conclusions already here..Let,s wait and see what the investigation will bring up. R.I.P to the victims and hopefully the investigation will bring light on this tragic event. I don.t write the MAX off..We don.t know what happened.

log0008 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:16 am

Note: Addis Ababa airport has an elevation of 7656ft, the flight only reached 1000ft AGL based on FR24 data of 8600ft.

NearMiss · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:17 am

This looks eerily similar to Lion Air 610... Condolences to all those involved.

5427247845 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:18 am

Flying Belgian wrote:
Maybe Boeing has pushed the 737 concept a "bit" too far...

I don’t think too far, but perhaps too quick. But we don’t know the cause that did crash this plane yet

RB211trent · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:19 am

Armodeen wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined

....jump the gun much?

Tbh in this case knowing what we know about this incident right now I don’t think he is jumping the gun.

RIP to those involved.

After reading numerous posts on this site stating all RR 787s and PW GTFs should be grounded etc after a few inflight issues, then to read after two seemingly similar fatal accidents on the 737MAX people believe grounding is jumping the gun. Unbelievable.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:20 am

If nothing else it does prompt questions given the relatively recent Indonesia crash. I imagine a lot of airlines and regulators will be watching the investigation extremely closely.

I hope the Ethiopian team and families get the support they need. :'(

runway23 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:20 am

jules48 wrote:
Another Max.Thats what happens when an airline rapidly expands and is in a country that is poverty stricken.Poor maintenance,pilot error or training.

If ET were crashing aircraft at the rate of Lionair I would agree - but ET hasn’t had a fatal crash in quite a while and introduced many new aircraft types without any issues.

Yet they introduce the 737Max and have a crash - either it’s just bad luck (entirely possible) or the 737Max has a flaw (most likely IMHO).

YYZatcboy · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:20 am

Condolences to all involved, including the CSA, ramp staff, controllers, dispatchers, and everyone in the back end who touched this flight.

LAX772LR · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:20 am

Armodeen wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined

....jump the gun much?

Tbh in this case knowing what we know about this incident right now I don’t think he is jumping the gun.

Wait, what?

...what exactly do you "know right now" about this incident other than the operator and the aircraft type? And you want to ground a fleet worldwide based off of that?

That's essentially the definition of jumping the gun.

TheDBCooper · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:20 am

jules48 wrote:
Another Max.Thats what happens when an airline rapidly expands and is in a country that is poverty stricken.Poor maintenance,pilot error or training.

Wow, just wow, please don't let your prejudices hold you back there.

Thoughts with those who have lost their lives on this flight.

Investigators and engineers are going to have to work quickly to find the cause.

A330freak · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:21 am

I'm saddened to hear about this. As unlikely as it may be, I hope there are survivors.

Below is a screenshot of the flight radar data for those who haven't looked at the FR24 link upthread.

(Taken from this tweet)
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 3613764609

A few observations/notes
-When the aircraft is on the ground, FR24 shows the altitude as 0 ft. Wikipedia lists the airport height as 7625 ft, taking that into account, if the FR24 data is accurate, the aircraft didn't climb much in the first few minutes

-The FR24 data isn't complete, the last signal has a timestamp of 5:41 UTC whereas news outlets report that it crashed around 5:44 UTC. In the tweet I linked to, FR24 also acknowledges that coverage is limited in the area.

-Playing back previous flights of ET302 shows the flight generally does a right turn quite quickly after departure. As can be seen above, this does not happen on this flight.

LAXBUR · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:22 am

Zoedyn wrote:
I was stunned to learn of the news right after my getting out of the swimming pool

Condolences to all involved

Too much of a blow to ET, the booming African flagship carrier

Dying to know the causes

I am sure those involved appreciate your poolside condolences.

B747forever · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:22 am

EmoticonsAllDay wrote:
B747forever wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:

Too much of a blow to ET, the booming African flagship carrier

I feel really sorry for ET. Hope this crash won’t tarnish their brand as they have worked really hard to build it up the past few years.

I'm positive that ET is not at fault here. They always have Boeing to throw under the bus just in case. After all 2 crashes of the same plane in a very short period of time. Reminds me of the DC10 times.

Unfortunately, your average joe will only know that an ET airplane crashed, and thus the airline must be unsafe regardless of any conclusions from the investigation.

JoeCanuck · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:23 am

6 minutes into the flight...would the flaps have been retracted yet? If flaps were extended, MCAS would have been disabled. Playback shows flight ended at an altitude of 8600 ft...quite different from the previous MAX accident.

LoganTheBogan · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:24 am

A truly horrific accident. Condolences to the families and friends involved indeed.

https://samchui.com/2019/03/10/ethiopia ... ITXeygzaUk

Armodeen · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:24 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
....jump the gun much?

Tbh in this case knowing what we know about this incident right now I don’t think he is jumping the gun.

Wait, what?

...what exactly do you "know right now" about this incident other than the operator and the aircraft type? And you want to ground a fleet worldwide based off of that?

That's essentially the definition of jumping the gun.

We know that 2 brand new airliners crashed shortly after take off with the loss of all on board. The 787 was grounded for less. If there is a fatal flaw in the frame then waiting a year for the final report on the Lion accident could cost more lives.

Right now we don’t know enough to say the frame is safe. You can see already from the multitude of people saying they won’t set foot on the max until the cause is known in this thread that that is the case.

IMHO they should ground them until the FDR/CVR is read and they can rule out a similar cause to the JT crash.

sierrakilo44 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:24 am

Although the recent JT610 crash is making everyone immediately think another MCAS, don’t forget the region. They have a poor Aviation safety record and there’s dozens of reasons this crash could’ve occurred, I’d be putting my dollar initially on something else (or a combination of factors as most aviation accidents are.)

Is it safe to fly on a 737 Max?

Yes, but I’d be making sure I was flying on an airline with a good safety culture and low levels of corruption (and that goes for any aircraft type).

I still maintain that properly trained pilots and a good safety culture would’ve easily prevented JT610.

StTim · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:24 am

May be just bad luck but I like many would be nervous getting on a MAX at present.

Finn350 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:25 am

There are 350 Boeing 737 MAX delivered as of January 31, 2019. Even if this crash is MCAS related, grounding the fleet will be a difficult decision for the FAA. There is a procedure how to recover the aircraft from the MCAS fault, not to mention the huge inconvenience the grounding would cause to the travelling public.

waly777 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:26 am

Armodeen wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined

....jump the gun much?

Tbh in this case knowing what we know about this incident right now I don’t think he is jumping the gun.

RIP to those involved.

And what exactly do we know about this incident other than the plane crashed shortly after takeoff?

kabq737 · Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:26 am

LAX772LR wrote:
JQ321 wrote:
all 737MAX Aircraft should be grounded till the cause is determined

....jump the gun much?

I work at a small airline and often do safety duties. While I am generally realistic and measured I don’t think he’s jumping the gun based off of initial reports. If things ease up and it’s not actually as similar to Lion Air as it looks right now we can re-assess but with the current parallels and the fleet being it’s present size I don’t wouldn’t critique his idea. Even if it’s not the correct answer it’s worth taking the idea seriously at this point.

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