tphuang
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:42 pm

CLTDAL wrote:
Ok. Lets get serious here for a minute. JetBlue needs to fix its "identity" problem FIRST before they start flying to Europe. Also, what about the remainder of the US????? What about customers who live in those markets???? If B6 wants to be a FULL SERVICE airline, they must connect the dots in the US and then begin flying to Europe. What airline flies to just a boutique selection of cities in the US and then starts jumping over the pond??? I think its bizarre. They need to realize that their costs are going to RISE-significantly. Everything will NEED to change. They will need to dump the motto " we are in the sweet spot" and become a Full Service Legacy airline. That means: Clubs/ Lounges, Retrofitting their current fleet to have a First Class product. ( Who is going to want to fly them from London to Boston and then hop on a old E190 with no Upgrade to First Class????) They are really jumping the gun here. As I've always said: They have a major problem with who they are and what they want to be. They complain their costs are rising.....well thats because they offer a higher quality product and continue to do so. Now they will need an even "better" product that will cost even more. If you want to be Low Cost- be low cost. B6 needs to finally CROSS OVER and become the Legacy it truly wants to be. Stop living a lie....a fantasy.....being half-way.....in the middle. That is not working and will definately NOT work if you plan to fly to Europe.


They need to fly to places where people from NYC and BOS wants to go. There is far more connection between London with these 2 cities than STL or MCI. Unless you work in NYC, I don't think you really have appreciation of how much business connection there is between London and New York. Imo, LHR is a more important business destination than even LA and SF out of NYC. It's such a huge hole in their network.

As for hoping on E90 with no upgrade to first class, that will be replaced by A220 soon enough. Compared to "first class" in europe, the EMS seat on E90 is much better. Try finding another economy product in Europe that's even comparable to B6 E90. I've done enough flight to LHR and then connecting to a BA A320 to somewhere in Europe. That experience is not pleasant.

As for clubs/lounges, there are 3 lounges you can easily access with priority pass from Terminal C at BOS right now. And with the new terminal planned at JFK, they will definitely have pp lounge there also. Why do they need to invest in lounge access when most people travelling like myself already have priority pass access? And for the infrequent flyers, they are either picking B6 because that's what their company travel policy would force them to do or because they are picking the best value for premium experience. The lack of lounge certainly hasn't stopped mint from dominating the transcon market. From my experience on FT, there are plenty of ff who pick B6 over legacy options even when factoring in lack of lounge access.

If there is anything that will make it tough for them, it will be lack of well timed slots and lack of partners on the other side. We will have to get further details to see what they can do about that.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:01 pm

tphuang wrote:
CLTDAL wrote:
Ok. Lets get serious here for a minute. JetBlue needs to fix its "identity" problem FIRST before they start flying to Europe. Also, what about the remainder of the US????? What about customers who live in those markets???? If B6 wants to be a FULL SERVICE airline, they must connect the dots in the US and then begin flying to Europe. What airline flies to just a boutique selection of cities in the US and then starts jumping over the pond??? I think its bizarre. They need to realize that their costs are going to RISE-significantly. Everything will NEED to change. They will need to dump the motto " we are in the sweet spot" and become a Full Service Legacy airline. That means: Clubs/ Lounges, Retrofitting their current fleet to have a First Class product. ( Who is going to want to fly them from London to Boston and then hop on a old E190 with no Upgrade to First Class????) They are really jumping the gun here. As I've always said: They have a major problem with who they are and what they want to be. They complain their costs are rising.....well thats because they offer a higher quality product and continue to do so. Now they will need an even "better" product that will cost even more. If you want to be Low Cost- be low cost. B6 needs to finally CROSS OVER and become the Legacy it truly wants to be. Stop living a lie....a fantasy.....being half-way.....in the middle. That is not working and will definately NOT work if you plan to fly to Europe.


They need to fly to places where people from NYC and BOS wants to go. There is far more connection between London with these 2 cities than STL or MCI. Unless you work in NYC, I don't think you really have appreciation of how much business connection there is between London and New York. Imo, LHR is a more important business destination than even LA and SF out of NYC. It's such a huge hole in their network.

As for hoping on E90 with no upgrade to first class, that will be replaced by A220 soon enough. Compared to "first class" in europe, the EMS seat on E90 is much better. Try finding another economy product in Europe that's even comparable to B6 E90. I've done enough flight to LHR and then connecting to a BA A320 to somewhere in Europe. That experience is not pleasant.

As for clubs/lounges, there are 3 lounges you can easily access with priority pass from Terminal C at BOS right now. And with the new terminal planned at JFK, they will definitely have pp lounge there also. Why do they need to invest in lounge access when most people travelling like myself already have priority pass access? And for the infrequent flyers, they are either picking B6 because that's what their company travel policy would force them to do or because they are picking the best value for premium experience. The lack of lounge certainly hasn't stopped mint from dominating the transcon market. From my experience on FT, there are plenty of ff who pick B6 over legacy options even when factoring in lack of lounge access.

If there is anything that will make it tough for them, it will be lack of well timed slots and lack of partners on the other side. We will have to get further details to see what they can do about that.


You beat me to it tphuang. I was typing out pretty much the exact same answer. The Even More Space product on the E190 blows the BA 320 business product out of the water. Tons of leg room and IFE. But even then those E190s will soon be a220s. Right now all the people connecting thru LHR with BA from BOS and JFK seem fine with what they get on the 320. If anything its going to be the business travelers originating on the other side of the pond that are going to be impressed with B6's domestic offering. Especially free WIFI!
 
jumbojet
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:12 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:


You beat me to it tphuang. I was typing out pretty much the exact same answer. The Even More Space product on the E190 blows the BA 320 business product out of the water. Tons of leg room and IFE. But even then those E190s will soon be a220s. Right now all the people connecting thru LHR with BA from BOS and JFK seem fine with what they get on the 320. If anything its going to be the business travelers originating on the other side of the pond that are going to be impressed with B6's domestic offering. Especially free WIFI!


EMS is a decent product but other than a few extra inches of legroom and being closer to getting on/off the plane, thats it. you get nothing extra such as free booze, upgraded snacks, meals etc. In fact, where Blue continues to lag, and correct me if am wrong, no free upgrades to WMC for its top elite flyers. As for the free WIFI, I am pretty sure a business class flyer is not making a decision on which airline to fly because of free WIFI. $20-30 is the least of a business travelers concern.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:30 pm

jumbojet wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:


You beat me to it tphuang. I was typing out pretty much the exact same answer. The Even More Space product on the E190 blows the BA 320 business product out of the water. Tons of leg room and IFE. But even then those E190s will soon be a220s. Right now all the people connecting thru LHR with BA from BOS and JFK seem fine with what they get on the 320. If anything its going to be the business travelers originating on the other side of the pond that are going to be impressed with B6's domestic offering. Especially free WIFI!


EMS is a decent product but other than a few extra inches of legroom and being closer to getting on/off the plane, thats it. you get nothing extra such as free booze, upgraded snacks, meals etc. In fact, where Blue continues to lag, and correct me if am wrong, no free upgrades to WMC for its top elite flyers. As for the free WIFI, I am pretty sure a business class flyer is not making a decision on which airline to fly because of free WIFI. $20-30 is the least of a business travelers concern.


If $20-30 is no concern for wifi, then $20-30 is also no concern for buying booze and meal. The big difference is how consistently fast the B6 wifi is.

business class product in Europe is 30inch seat with middle seat blocked. I don't see that beating even regular y seat on E90. The free and really high speed internet on B6 would actually be helpful to a passenger needing to do some work.

I've done both EMS on B6 and a lot of FC on AA on short regional type of flights. The only reason I got drunk on the AA flights was because there is no adequately fast internet to use or TV to watch.

having said that, I think there are things B6 could do for passengers coming off mint cabin onto connection flight. But their business model is mostly geared toward O&D traffic.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:38 pm

tphuang wrote:
[

I
I've done both EMS on B6 and a lot of FC on AA on short regional type of flights. The only reason I got drunk on the AA flights was because there is no adequately fast internet to use or TV to watch.

having said that, I think there are things B6 could do for passengers coming off mint cabin onto connection flight. But their business model is mostly geared toward O&D traffic.


If I had to fly AA, I would be asking for doubles! :lol:

You want an amazing experience with a regular coach seat, then try the new DL A220. everything that you could possibly want is on that plane. Now, back on topic, has Blue gone on record saying that free WIFI will be an offering on TATL flights?
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:39 pm

jumbojet wrote:
EMS is a decent product but other than a few extra inches of legroom and being closer to getting on/off the plane, thats it. you get nothing extra such as free booze, upgraded snacks, meals etc. In fact, where Blue continues to lag, and correct me if am wrong, no free upgrades to WMC for its top elite flyers. As for the free WIFI, I am pretty sure a business class flyer is not making a decision on which airline to fly because of free WIFI. $20-30 is the least of a business travelers concern.


I agree with the free booze and upgraded snacks. But that's something that would be pretty easy for them to change, and they probably will as soon as they add TATL. As for the WIFI....at this point BA intra Europe doesn't even have WIFI at all. All though that will be resolved soon. They are shooting to have most of the short haul fleet with WiFi by the end of 2019.

But for the most part we are pretty spoiled in the US with the general domestic offering. One of my colleagues visiting from France a few years ago was marveling at DL economy on a 737. Made me take a step back and realize we have it pretty good. :lol:
 
flyby519
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:31 pm

jumbojet wrote:
tphuang wrote:
[

I
I've done both EMS on B6 and a lot of FC on AA on short regional type of flights. The only reason I got drunk on the AA flights was because there is no adequately fast internet to use or TV to watch.

having said that, I think there are things B6 could do for passengers coming off mint cabin onto connection flight. But their business model is mostly geared toward O&D traffic.


If I had to fly AA, I would be asking for doubles! :lol:

You want an amazing experience with a regular coach seat, then try the new DL A220. everything that you could possibly want is on that plane. Now, back on topic, has Blue gone on record saying that free WIFI will be an offering on TATL flights?


Well they haven't even committed publicly to TATL flights, so lets start there ;)

ViaSat-3 will launch in 2021 and give B6 global coverage. I don't know if it will continue to be free, but I imagine there will at least be some sort of free throttled back access. And for a fee you can get that blazing online gaming type of speed. We'll see
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:41 pm

airbazar wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
So anything beyond UK, Ireland, Portugal, Norway and parts of Spain and France seems not doable with the LR from NY, in real life.

I can't believe this myth keeps going around still.
UA has been flying 752's from EWR to TXL for years. The LR has longer range than the 752 but somehow it can't make it beyond "coastal Europe" according to some. We also know that Primera was flying CDG-EWR with a first gen A321neo so logic would suggest that the LR has even more range than that, but I guess that didn't happen either :banghead:
Either way we'll know pretty soon. TP is scheduled to start using their LR on LIS-IAD this Summer. By Winter they should have pretty good figures on what it can and can't do and hopefully by then this speculation will end.


LIS-IAD is a good bit shorter than HAM-NYC, also more southern route.
I never said the LR would not make HAM-NY or BER-NY at all, JetBlue said its about flying all year (winter!).

JetBlue is not the only Airline to doubt the LRs range on TATL routes further than like 3.200nm, also Lufthansa said several times that the A321LR has not enough range for Germany - US, also Air Transat said the range is not enough for flights longer than UK/Ireland, Portugal, Spain and France.

Also CDG-EWR is shorter than Germany-NYC. Also we dont know how many seats they had to block (especially in Winter) in Order to make this flight nonstop.
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mattyfitzg
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:51 pm

DLHAM wrote:
Also CDG-EWR is shorter than Germany-NYC. Also we dont know how many seats they had to block (especially in Winter) in Order to make this flight nonstop.


PF didn't block any seats on CDG-EWR, and was near enough full everytime. But this was Summer not Winter.
 
mutu
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:21 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
There are 3 slots available for London Heathrow to New York JFK in W19. I would feel confident that JetBlue are after them

https://www.mazars.co.uk/Home/Services/ ... nes-Iberia

The issue here is that so long as competitive frequencies haven't dropped since last submission deadline (where the committee deemed there was plenty of competition and frequency in the LHR/new York routes and so didn't release any remedy slots) then there is a chance with Norwegian having added frequencies at LGW that more competition already exists and no slots will be released again....and that decision will only be known 29 May 2019. So nothing to announce 10 April IF they are indeed after those slots
 
mutu
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:28 pm

VS11 wrote:
Regarding destinations in Europe - Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam and Frankfurt are benefiting from financial (but not only) companies relocating from London per Brexit so higher demand for them from the US should be expected.


This Brexit doom and gloom is a little over done. Yes some job s have moved from the city of London as a contingency.

If there is a deal then no real change to anything

If there is a hard Brexit then there will certainly be a period of disruption and readjustment but it appears in the case the UK will unilaterally eliminate all tariffs on 90% of imports to the UK.

And drop foreign ownership limited on UK airlines

We are a instinctively free trade nation (of shopkeepers)

Ultimately the UK may well become a different vibrant economy. But as a not so.long ago 4th largest economy in the world it isn't going down the pan.

(I am a remainer for the record).
 
flybry
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:46 pm

I think if Jetblue enters the NYC-LHR market, United will cut back EWR-LHR frequencies.
 
VS11
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:59 pm

mutu wrote:
VS11 wrote:
Regarding destinations in Europe - Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam and Frankfurt are benefiting from financial (but not only) companies relocating from London per Brexit so higher demand for them from the US should be expected.


This Brexit doom and gloom is a little over done. Yes some job s have moved from the city of London as a contingency.

If there is a deal then no real change to anything

If there is a hard Brexit then there will certainly be a period of disruption and readjustment but it appears in the case the UK will unilaterally eliminate all tariffs on 90% of imports to the UK.

And drop foreign ownership limited on UK airlines

We are a instinctively free trade nation (of shopkeepers)

Ultimately the UK may well become a different vibrant economy. But as a not so.long ago 4th largest economy in the world it isn't going down the pan.

(I am a remainer for the record).


I never said there was doom and gloom - just that some companies are relocating (particularly US banks) which will create demand for these other cities from the US. I have not even mentioned demand to London or impact of Brexit.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:18 pm

flybry wrote:
I think if Jetblue enters the NYC-LHR market, United will cut back EWR-LHR frequencies.


United are reducing the number of seats on their Newark to London Heathrow flights from 214 to 167, however they are focussing on increasing premium customers. The new 767-300ERs, dubbed the "76L", will have 46 Polaris business class seats, 22 premium economy seats, 47 extra-legroom economy seats and 52 economy seats for a total of 167 passengers.

This is a different market to JetBlue, but also London to New York is very premium and also needs high frequency. It could be argued that 5 daily is not enough when BA/AA have 12 and DL/VS have 8
 
ABEguy
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:53 am

Does anybody know where to find London Heathrow’s charges and landing fees? From my understanding it is some astronomical numbers, but I can’t seem to find any info.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:01 am

SeanM1997 wrote:
flybry wrote:
I think if Jetblue enters the NYC-LHR market, United will cut back EWR-LHR frequencies.


United are reducing the number of seats on their Newark to London Heathrow flights from 214 to 167, however they are focussing on increasing premium customers. The new 767-300ERs, dubbed the "76L", will have 46 Polaris business class seats, 22 premium economy seats, 47 extra-legroom economy seats and 52 economy seats for a total of 167 passengers.

This is a different market to JetBlue, but also London to New York is very premium and also needs high frequency. It could be argued that 5 daily is not enough when BA/AA have 12 and DL/VS have 8


There are many markets out of JFK like CLT/ATL/ORD/HOU/DEN that supposedly require high frequency to do well, but B6 makes money in all of them (in some cases very high margin) with 1 or 2 flights a day.
 
VS11
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:11 am

ABEguy wrote:
Does anybody know where to find London Heathrow’s charges and landing fees? From my understanding it is some astronomical numbers, but I can’t seem to find any info.


https://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Co ... il2014.pdf
 
ABEguy
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:49 am

Thanks. So just using some quick math, and not including parking fees, emissions fees, night operations fees (if that’s a slot theyre stuck with), or fuel, a JetBlue A321 would be charged around 10,300 pounds to turn an aircraft at LHR. Even with the current favorable exchange rate, that’s a lot. With a pretty small premium cabin, and no meaningful freight to haul, I don’t see LHR economics making sense for a A321 trans Atlantic. I bet they launch LGW.
 
jomur
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:54 am

pitbosflyer wrote:
But for the most part we are pretty spoiled in the US with the general domestic offering. One of my colleagues visiting from France a few years ago was marveling at DL economy on a 737. Made me take a step back and realize we have it pretty good. :lol:


If and when the US has proper fast high speed trans-con trains then we will see if US domestic air travel stays the same... Probably not...
 
jumbojet
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:42 pm

Hayes has recently said that they prefer Heathrow but if the economics aren't there, they will take other London airports, I think LGW and STN or LCY? Question is, do those airports have limited slot availability or can they pretty much set up camp and if things work out, set up an operation like AA/BA have at LHR, just about hourly flights from the morning to late in the evening?
 
lowfareair
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:54 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Hayes has recently said that they prefer Heathrow but if the economics aren't there, they will take other London airports, I think LGW and STN or LCY? Question is, do those airports have limited slot availability or can they pretty much set up camp and if things work out, set up an operation like AA/BA have at LHR, just about hourly flights from the morning to late in the evening?


LCY is constrained by the number of gates that can handle A220s, I don't even know if they can handle A223s on the ground (A221s are doable) and I think the runway would only allow for an A221 in a premium config to make it to NYC/BOS. Any B6 aircraft type, including A223, is out of the question.

You might be thinking of LTN and not LCY. AFAIK, LGW is a bit of a pain to get into but nowhere near as constrained as LHR, and STN/LTN are cakewalks.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:11 am

This is sort kind of on topic, Blue felt it needed to get involved in the Haneda slot issue and wrote a letter to DOT in which it tried (but obviously failed) to draw similarities between DL - HND and B6 - AMS/LHR. Here is Delta Air Lines reply to the DOT on Blues letter:

JetBlue’s Answer is Logically Flawed and Irrelevant to this Proceeding.
JetBlue, and to a lesser extent United, attempt to draw a parallel between Delta’s
arguments in this proceeding and JetBlue’s arguments in opposition to the Joint Motion of Delta,
Virgin Atlantic, and Air France-KLM for antitrust immunity for an amended transatlantic joint
venture.63 JetBlue suggests that if the Department agrees with Delta that it should take into
account the competitive conditions created by the immunized Japanese joint ventures in this
proceeding when deciding how to allocate the newly available Haneda slots, “then fundamental
fairness and due process dictate that the Department also recognize JetBlue’s need for similar
access at LHR and AMS.”64 This argument ignores the obvious fact that this is a slot allocation
proceeding (the “2019 U.S.-Haneda Combination Services Allocation Proceeding”). The purpose
of a slot allocation proceeding is indeed to allocate slots. By contrast, the purpose of an antitrust
immunity proceeding is to determine whether the proposed alliance agreement will harm
competition and whether it will generate public benefits. Delta has already explained at length
why there is no basis in law or fact for JetBlue’s false contentions about the proposed transatlantic
joint venture in that docket and will not repeat those arguments here.
JetBlue also ignores the fact that the legal regimes for acquiring slots at both London
Heathrow and Amsterdam Schiphol are fundamentally different from Tokyo Haneda. At Heathrow
and Schiphol, carriers can apply to the local slot coordinators for takeoff and landing rights;

carriers can buy, sell, and trade slots; and there is a working secondary market to obtain slots
from other carriers. Haneda, in contrast, has none of these mechanisms for new entrants to
acquire slots. In fact, Haneda access is explicitly limited by the terms of the U.S.-Japan
Agreement. No other open skies jurisdiction features such illiberal controls on airport access
 
Blueknows
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:44 am

ents ago

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/c ... -heathrow/

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/c ... -heathrow/
Go to FAQ look at flight schedules. LHR IS NOT LISTED AS CITY THEY FLY.
Look at there posted schedule no
Listing of these flights leaving from LHR..i wonder who got those slots ????
 
flyby519
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 am

Blueknows wrote:
ents ago

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/c ... -heathrow/

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/c ... -heathrow/
Go to FAQ look at flight schedules. LHR IS NOT LISTED AS CITY THEY FLY.
Look at there posted schedule no
Listing of these flights leaving from LHR..i wonder who got those slots ????


My understanding is that MT never flew from LHR but the vacation packages sold as LHR-PUJ for example included a first leg on LH LHR-FRA and then on DE from FRA-PUJ.
 
Blueknows
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:05 pm

Damn thats crazy
 
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kearnet
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:25 pm

lowfareair wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Hayes has recently said that they prefer Heathrow but if the economics aren't there, they will take other London airports, I think LGW and STN or LCY? Question is, do those airports have limited slot availability or can they pretty much set up camp and if things work out, set up an operation like AA/BA have at LHR, just about hourly flights from the morning to late in the evening?


LCY is constrained by the number of gates that can handle A220s, I don't even know if they can handle A223s on the ground (A221s are doable) and I think the runway would only allow for an A221 in a premium config to make it to NYC/BOS. Any B6 aircraft type, including A223, is out of the question.

You might be thinking of LTN and not LCY. AFAIK, LGW is a bit of a pain to get into but nowhere near as constrained as LHR, and STN/LTN are cakewalks.


I’ve read a few different aviation sites that say LCY is trying to get the A220-300 certified. With their currently in progress expansion, there should be enough room (wing span is same for both models).

The bigger issue is runway length. At MTOW (certainly full tanks needed for LCY-JFK/BOS) the -300 needs 6,200 ft, where as LCY runway is only 4,948 ft.

However, I’m willing to bet it could do LCY-SNN just fine.

So yes, they'd be playing against BA but with a much better hand: an A220-300 with approx 140 seats (some Mint) vs A318 in 32 premium seat config.

They avoid the expensive bloodbath LHR, but way better then LGW, LTN, STN. I'm also willing to bet they can market preclearing with easy domestic connections.
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flyby519
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:49 pm

kearnet wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Hayes has recently said that they prefer Heathrow but if the economics aren't there, they will take other London airports, I think LGW and STN or LCY? Question is, do those airports have limited slot availability or can they pretty much set up camp and if things work out, set up an operation like AA/BA have at LHR, just about hourly flights from the morning to late in the evening?


LCY is constrained by the number of gates that can handle A220s, I don't even know if they can handle A223s on the ground (A221s are doable) and I think the runway would only allow for an A221 in a premium config to make it to NYC/BOS. Any B6 aircraft type, including A223, is out of the question.

You might be thinking of LTN and not LCY. AFAIK, LGW is a bit of a pain to get into but nowhere near as constrained as LHR, and STN/LTN are cakewalks.


I’ve read a few different aviation sites that say LCY is trying to get the A220-300 certified. With their currently in progress expansion, there should be enough room (wing span is same for both models).

The bigger issue is runway length. At MTOW (certainly full tanks needed for LCY-JFK/BOS) the -300 needs 6,200 ft, where as LCY runway is only 4,948 ft.

However, I’m willing to bet it could do LCY-SNN just fine.

So yes, they'd be playing against BA but with a much better hand: an A220-300 with approx 140 seats (some Mint) vs A318 in 32 premium seat config.

They avoid the expensive bloodbath LHR, but way better then LGW, LTN, STN. I'm also willing to bet they can market preclearing with easy domestic connections.


How about an A220-300 with 30-40 Mint seats? Wonder if that would be enough weight reduction to take a full load of gas and make it nonstop westbound.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:21 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
flybry wrote:
I think if Jetblue enters the NYC-LHR market, United will cut back EWR-LHR frequencies.


United are reducing the number of seats on their Newark to London Heathrow flights from 214 to 167, however they are focussing on increasing premium customers. The new 767-300ERs, dubbed the "76L", will have 46 Polaris business class seats, 22 premium economy seats, 47 extra-legroom economy seats and 52 economy seats for a total of 167 passengers.

This is a different market to JetBlue, but also London to New York is very premium and also needs high frequency. It could be argued that 5 daily is not enough when BA/AA have 12 and DL/VS have 8


Your numbers are a little misleading.

Here are the numbers more specifically per airline.
AA- 4
BA- 8
DL- 2
VS- 6
 
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kearnet
Posts: 332
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:31 am

flyby519 wrote:

How about an A220-300 with 30-40 Mint seats? Wonder if that would be enough weight reduction to take a full load of gas and make it nonstop westbound.


While that might be technically possible, an all premium biz config subfleet is not B6s way, that’s something for BA to do where they can get away with charging the fairs needed to make it work with the service level to match.
C402 9K | B1900D US | ATR72 AA | DHC8 US | CRJ2 US | E175 UA | E190 B6 | D93 US | M88 US/AA | 732 US | 733 US/WN | 734 US | 73G WN | B738 FJ/QF | B752 US/AA | B762 DL | B772 UA | B77W EK | F28 US | F100 US | A319 US | A320 B6 | A332 FJ | A380 EK
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 207
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Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:38 am

United introducing evolved livery in April, JetBlue company wide announcement in April. Can’t you see what’s happening here. /s
 
TheLunchbox
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:31 am

No, please do tell.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2727
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:51 am

TheLunchbox wrote:
No, please do tell.


UA acquires Blue. On routes that would give them a large share of the market, they get divided amongst the remainder of the US carriers.
 
NYCSKYGUY
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:54 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
United introducing evolved livery in April, JetBlue company wide announcement in April. Can’t you see what’s happening here. /s


Yes, United is updating a livery and b6 is announcing European flying. Both in April.
 
TheLunchbox
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:05 pm

jumbojet wrote:
TheLunchbox wrote:
No, please do tell.


UA acquires Blue. On routes that would give them a large share of the market, they get divided amongst the remainder of the US carriers.



I was being sarcastic. There's no United takeover.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:30 am

 
flyby519
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:23 pm

Blueknows wrote:
https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2017/03/30/sas-sells-heathrow-slots-75-million/
Thats were the profit sharing went


AA bought those

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... expansion/
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5328
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:36 pm

Understand, PS is a fixed forumla.

B6 changed the formula 2 years ago in return for a one time 8 percent raise.

The new lower numbers reflect that formula.

Over $700 million was put into the formula this year.

Varying for actual total annual pay:

Pilots around $300
FAs around $120
Gate Agents/Rampers around $75


That is what B6 thinks of its employees in terms of adding to profitability.

Frankly, it was a major screwup, and they now have the IAM sniffing around the bases.

I predict by this time next year, B6 will
be a 3 union airline...The third union is the resultant of this profit sharing
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 983
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Understand, PS is a fixed forumla.

B6 changed the formula 2 years ago in return for a one time 8 percent raise.

The new lower numbers reflect that formula.

Over $700 million was put into the formula this year.

Varying for actual total annual pay:

Pilots around $300
FAs around $120
Gate Agents/Rampers around $75


That is what B6 thinks of its employees in terms of adding to profitability.

Frankly, it was a major screwup, and they now have the IAM sniffing around the bases.

I predict by this time next year, B6 will
be a 3 union airline...The third union is the resultant of this profit sharing


hard to argue with your projection if numbers are right.
out of curiosity, what where the numbers in the last year of the old formula?
 
Blueknows
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:14 pm

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/america ... 1-million/
They also bought Cyrus slots too. Now with this whole alliance wonder if they have to sell?
Also who bought cobalt airs LHR slots? Vs had to give up and unknown airline bought them ...hmmm
 
Blueknows
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:21 pm

 
ual763
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:37 pm

This will coincide nicely with the unveiling of a new United livery this January! ;)
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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spinotter
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:17 pm

jomur wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
But for the most part we are pretty spoiled in the US with the general domestic offering. One of my colleagues visiting from France a few years ago was marveling at DL economy on a 737. Made me take a step back and realize we have it pretty good. :lol:


If and when the US has proper fast high speed trans-con trains then we will see if US domestic air travel stays the same... Probably not...


I am a rail fanatic, but I wonder if you are serious about high-speed transcontinental rail in the USA. For example, NYC to San Francisco at about 4700 km with a speed of 350 km/h (TGV, Chinese HSR) would require 13+ hours without stops. Hyperloop at 1200 km/h? Maybe. Faster than air travel. But I find it difficult to imagine that the USA has the foresight or the will to build a totally new transcontinental transportation network when we are a nation of automobile lovers. Look at the disaster of HSR in California - too expensive, they say.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14051
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:28 pm

To me it would make more sense for JetBlue to go south, expanding into Central and South America and Caribbean, not east to Europe. Better might be to offer partnerships with certain foreign airlines from their hubs in the eastern USA for connecting services.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2738
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:49 pm

ltbewr wrote:
To me it would make more sense for JetBlue to go south, expanding into Central and South America and Caribbean, not east to Europe. Better might be to offer partnerships with certain foreign airlines from their hubs in the eastern USA for connecting services.

They are already at south america, central america and caribbean. They already offer plenty of partnerships to foreign airlines at Boston. What is wrong with people?

You think they are going to win more loyalty in Boston by flying to Brazil and Argentina? Cause that's all that's left in Latin America for them. Sure, let's keep staying away from a top 5 important destination out of Boston and London, so DL can keep cleaning up with the corporate clients.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5328
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:05 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Understand, PS is a fixed forumla.

B6 changed the formula 2 years ago in return for a one time 8 percent raise.

The new lower numbers reflect that formula.

Over $700 million was put into the formula this year.

Varying for actual total annual pay:

Pilots around $300
FAs around $120
Gate Agents/Rampers around $75


That is what B6 thinks of its employees in terms of adding to profitability.

Frankly, it was a major screwup, and they now have the IAM sniffing around the bases.

I predict by this time next year, B6 will
be a 3 union airline...The third union is the resultant of this profit sharing


hard to argue with your projection if numbers are right.
out of curiosity, what where the numbers in the last year of the old formula?


old formula with $700 million would have been closer to $10000 for pilots
 
cpl22586
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:39 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:24 am

tphuang wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
To me it would make more sense for JetBlue to go south, expanding into Central and South America and Caribbean, not east to Europe. Better might be to offer partnerships with certain foreign airlines from their hubs in the eastern USA for connecting services.

They are already at south america, central america and caribbean. They already offer plenty of partnerships to foreign airlines at Boston. What is wrong with people?

You think they are going to win more loyalty in Boston by flying to Brazil and Argentina? Cause that's all that's left in Latin America for them. Sure, let's keep staying away from a top 5 important destination out of Boston and London, so DL can keep cleaning up with the corporate clients.


Its like where else is there left to go to in the Caribbean. The only place I could think of would be Saint Kitts.
 
windian425
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:48 pm

St. Vincent (SVD) is open for a weekly JFK flight.
 
windian425
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:50 pm

Georgetown, Guyana (GEO) also has great potential for B6 from JFK and also FLL. Pitty AA got the jump out of MIA first.
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:07 pm

I have no doubt it'll be LHR
@DadCelo
 
airbazar
Posts: 9436
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Jetblue “Save the Date” All Hands - April 10

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:32 pm

tphuang wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
To me it would make more sense for JetBlue to go south, expanding into Central and South America and Caribbean, not east to Europe. Better might be to offer partnerships with certain foreign airlines from their hubs in the eastern USA for connecting services.

They are already at south america, central america and caribbean. They already offer plenty of partnerships to foreign airlines at Boston. What is wrong with people?

You think they are going to win more loyalty in Boston by flying to Brazil and Argentina? Cause that's all that's left in Latin America for them. Sure, let's keep staying away from a top 5 important destination out of Boston and London, so DL can keep cleaning up with the corporate clients.


Not to mention that they can't reach most of the relevant S.American cities from BOS with the fleet they have. However I fully expect them to expand S.America from FLL with the NEO at the same time they expand in Europe from BOS.

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