Yesterday, Chuck Schumer and local officials held a press conference at ISP to encourage the FAA to choose ISP for $70 million in terminal upgrades.

Long story short, Mr. Chuck said, "We need to get more flights, to more locations. Particularly to the west coast and to the Southwest to make this airport grow... Some of the airlines, some new airlines are getting new planes that will allow them to use Islip's runways that can travel all the way to the west coast. There's an Airbus plane called the 220 that's just coming onboard that can use the length of Islip's runways to fly anywhere in the United States."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACPNxfdnvww

Sure sounds like good old Chuck is talking to Delta, or more likely, JetBlue. Now I'm not under any spell that makes me think JetBlue would serve the west coast from ISP, but it's good to know Chuck is still talking to JetBlue (and hopefully other airlines) about serving Long Island.

Should the airport receive the necessary federal funding, it would be around 2021/23 when the improvements are complete - just in time for JetBlue's A220...

Maybe. I’m sure Chuck wants that, but B6 isn’t doing Florida now which is less risky and is absolutely possible with their current fleet.

An airport with less than 20 daily flights and $70 million upgrades? I dont think so, there many other airports nationwide where this $70 million could be better spent.

Doubt it. JFK is B6's main base and it is just down the road from ISP. There's no reason for them start flying to ISP when they have JFK right up the road. LGA and EWR are a little different, so there's a reason why they fly to those 2. ISP? A little different. I think B6 has a few other destinations they should focus on launching first, namely IND, STL, MCI, SAT, and CVG. Add TATL flights if they get approved for those with the A321neo. That'd include at least London, and most likely DUB. So if it ever does happen, it won't happen for a while.

It would make perfect sense for B6 to serve ISP. There is a significant reservoir of population on Long Island (including quite a bit of money in the Hamptons...) and McArthur is more convenient than JFK for anybody living east of Levittown. Automobile traffic from eastern LI to JFK has become very difficult year round and B6's ability to grow at JFK is probably not unlimited anyway. ISP could serve as a relay for growth without cannibalizing B6's JFK traffic if the aircraft used are not too large (Embraer, A220...) in a catchment area already familiar with B6. If the airline decides to neglect this market, someone else will take advantage of the void eventually and they will eat Jet Blue's lunch on their eastern flank, perhaps permanently. Think cathedrals and the flying buttresses.

I’d like to say it’ll never happen. But with some of our destinations like ORH, SWF, PVD and HPN.... wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

And lets add HVN (New Haven CT) to the wish list cities for JetBlue A220s!!

They were supposed extend runway 6/24 another 1000 feet for takeoffs 20yrs ago for Southwest before the Political scandal fallout and the economic slowdown stopped everything.

Flyguy

If Schumer really pressures B6 to do it, they will do it.

What's B6's and Long Island's air travel bread and butter....errrr....bagel with a schmear? Florida. Snowbird destinations and vacation hot spots. These are served by WN and F9 already, and I doubt there is much more demand for a 3rd airline on some of these routes, especially one that will have/want a premium for their product. Long Island, despite having money, is one of the costliest places to live in the US with horrific taxes. My generation of Long Islander (graduated Commack High in 1998) has either left Long island (I left to live in TPA in July 2016 and never looked back) or is living a thin disposable income line (i.e. minimal travel) on LI so they can afford to have a house in a good school district, 2 cars, etc. Also, as the the generation of snow birds slowly declines in population over the next few decades, demand during snow bird season will drop too.

B6 has not announced final plans for the A220 yet. Currently, the E190 does not go to the west coast, it was pulled a long time ago. An airline does not just add an entire fleet type outside of it's normal support network to support 1 route, thus an A220 flight ISP-west coast would be very unlikely unless the west coast was seeing additional A220 service as you need to train crews, have ground support equipment and aircraft parts to support that fleet. That is a very expensive investment for a one-flight situation.

ISP is more complex than what people think unless they actually have lived there (in my case, I lived on LI for 36 years of my life). It is extremely price sensitive, and often times people will not pay a premium to fly out of ISP when their family bonds are strong and willing to drop them off at JFK/LGA. While I understand that population is increasing Eastward, it's still pretty low east of exit 64 of the LIE.

But that's just my opinion. Who knows what the future holds. Will we see B6 in ISP eventually? Sure, IMHO. But, they need to offer something appealing to LIers, which I think will come with the increased transfer abilities in places like FLL and MCO as they continue to get built up (FLL moreso than MCO). Only time will tell, but I just don't see a business case right now for their entry into ISP.

N292UX wrote:

Doubt it. JFK is B6's main base and it is just down the road from ISP. There's no reason for them start flying to ISP when they have JFK right up the road. LGA and EWR are a little different, so there's a reason why they fly to those 2. ISP? A little different. I think B6 has a few other destinations they should focus on launching first, namely IND, STL, MCI, SAT, and CVG. Add TATL flights if they get approved for those with the A321neo. That'd include at least London, and most likely DUB. So if it ever does happen, it won't happen for a while.

JFK is not exactly "down the road" from ISP. It is 45-50 miles and is a one hour drive WITHOUT traffic, so it's more like 1.25 or 1.5 hours away if you factor in traffic delays. My point is, Long Islanders will drive to JFK or LGA to pay a lower fare, plain and simple. In fact, I have friends in Oceanside, which is much closer to JFK than it is to ISP, that often drive east to ISP, to take Frontier to FLL or MIA, to grab a lower airfare than they could get out of JFK or LGA. Until the price of an airline ticket out of ISP becomes the same as for the exact same flight out of JFK or LGA, ISP will continue to be an afterthought, or the last choice of departure airport. I want to see ISP grow and succeed also, but it will take a combination of competitive fares, extending runway 6-24 where there is land available at the northeast corner of the airport, and possibly improving connections from the LIE and LIRR to the main terminal.

N292UX wrote:

Doubt it. JFK is B6's main base and it is just down the road from ISP. There's no reason for them start flying to ISP when they have JFK right up the road. LGA and EWR are a little different, so there's a reason why they fly to those 2. ISP? A little different. I think B6 has a few other destinations they should focus on launching first, namely IND, STL, MCI, SAT, and CVG. Add TATL flights if they get approved for those with the A321neo. That'd include at least London, and most likely DUB. So if it ever does happen, it won't happen for a while.

BOS is B6’s second biggest hub and yet they serve Worcester. That one is a bigger head scratcher IMO than ISP

So I’ve asked many times at meetings and isp is not on B6 plan. They want there customer to go to JFK. That’s there bread and butter. AMAZON just pulled out of Long Island city deal. So B6 lease is up soon so sure they will expand HQ. They want customers in JFk and create the whole experience. They are partners in the new TWA hotel. So ISP is not going to happen. So the ORH deal was an agreement with massport. They wanted to create a secondary Mass airport. B6 added ORH-JFK flights as a deal with massport to get more gates in BOS. B6 got insensitive to do ORH flights to help get fed money for runway and landing upgrades. Worked out better then the EAS bs going on right now.

Blueknows wrote:

So I’ve asked many times at meetings and isp is not on B6 plan. They want there customer to go to JFK. That’s there bread and butter. AMAZON just pulled out of Long Island city deal. So B6 lease is up soon so sure they will expand HQ. They want customers in JFk and create the whole experience. They are partners in the new TWA hotel. So ISP is not going to happen. So the ORH deal was an agreement with massport. They wanted to create a secondary Mass airport. B6 added ORH-JFK flights as a deal with massport to get more gates in BOS. B6 got insensitive to do ORH flights to help get fed money for runway and landing upgrades. Worked out better then the EAS bs going on right now.

By your logic LGA, EWR, HPN, and SWF wouldn’t be served by B6 either, yet they are.

No, this has been discussed more years than I have been on this planet and JetBlue doesn't care for many secondary airports anymore and ISP ain't going to come UNLESS Neeleman`s new airline poses a threat to B6 but I think he will have to chomp through SWA and F9 before worrying about a B6 entry, I think this more or less for additional AA service (CLT/DCA), UA entry (IAD most likely) and a DL entry (ATL or DTW)

ISP has Moxie future all over it.
Flyguy

Blueknows wrote:

So I’ve asked many times at meetings and isp is not on B6 plan. They want there customer to go to JFK. That’s there bread and butter. AMAZON just pulled out of Long Island city deal. So B6 lease is up soon so sure they will expand HQ. They want customers in JFk and create the whole experience. They are partners in the new TWA hotel. So ISP is not going to happen. So the ORH deal was an agreement with massport. They wanted to create a secondary Mass airport. B6 added ORH-JFK flights as a deal with massport to get more gates in BOS. B6 got insensitive to do ORH flights to help get fed money for runway and landing upgrades. Worked out better then the EAS bs going on right now.

The fact you don't know the difference between there and their leads me to believe you have never been in a meeting with anyone at B6 who would know anything about ISP.

If Islip wants to expand it is going to need a transit option to New York City. It can't thrive solely on Long Island based passengers.

LetsGoOutside wrote:

It would make perfect sense for B6 to serve ISP. There is a significant reservoir of population on Long Island (including quite a bit of money in the Hamptons...) and McArthur is more convenient than JFK for anybody living east of Levittown.

But if B6 (or anybody) is $5 cheaper from JFK, all that traffic will motor on by ISP. JFK has economics of scale and frequency of service ISP will never be able to match. ISP is, and will remain a niche airport.

reaching JFK from Long Island is relatively easy. Most of the population is on the western end of the island and closer to JFK. While ISP may offer certain conveniences. When given the option of a non stop flight from JFK that is cheaper vs a connection from ISP, many will choose JFK.

ISP is very difficult to reach if you don't live on Long Island, even from NYC.

Compared to an airport like SWF where the catchment area can radiate out into a complete circle around it. That is why it has B6, G4 and DY and ISP does not.

F27500 wrote:

And lets add HVN (New Haven CT) to the wish list cities for JetBlue A220s!!

Got to say Chuck has done a lot for New York's small airports over the years, but where are CT's senators and congressmen regarding HVN?

Republic Airport in Farmingdale has a much stronger catchment area.

ISP location is very interesting. It is near millions of people on Long Island. It's also very hard to reach from anywhere else. I think it's main misison should be to leisure destinations and maybe more to large hubs.

SWF I do think is the reliever of choice for almost everyone who isn't on long Island. North Jersey, Connecticut, nyc, Westchester, Rockland. SWF location is much better overall as a reliever airport for EWR, JFK, and LGA

usxguy wrote:

Does ISP have the traffic restrictions HPN does?

HPN as far as I know is the only airport in the northeast that has a passenger per hour limit. I know they tried to raise that limit in the past but don't know how it finally worked out.

MHFCPA wrote:

N292UX wrote:

Doubt it. JFK is B6's main base and it is just down the road from ISP. There's no reason for them start flying to ISP when they have JFK right up the road. LGA and EWR are a little different, so there's a reason why they fly to those 2. ISP? A little different. I think B6 has a few other destinations they should focus on launching first, namely IND, STL, MCI, SAT, and CVG. Add TATL flights if they get approved for those with the A321neo. That'd include at least London, and most likely DUB. So if it ever does happen, it won't happen for a while.

JFK is not exactly "down the road" from ISP. It is 45-50 miles and is a one hour drive WITHOUT traffic, so it's more like 1.25 or 1.5 hours away if you factor in traffic delays. My point is, Long Islanders will drive to JFK or LGA to pay a lower fare, plain and simple. In fact, I have friends in Oceanside, which is much closer to JFK than it is to ISP, that often drive east to ISP, to take Frontier to FLL or MIA, to grab a lower airfare than they could get out of JFK or LGA. Until the price of an airline ticket out of ISP becomes the same as for the exact same flight out of JFK or LGA, ISP will continue to be an afterthought, or the last choice of departure airport. I want to see ISP grow and succeed also, but it will take a combination of competitive fares, extending runway 6-24 where there is land available at the northeast corner of the airport, and possibly improving connections from the LIE and LIRR to the main terminal.

I lived in Oceanside until last year, now I live in Westbury. Never made the drive to ISP to catch a flight the entire time. I'd use it if Delta started flying there again, but they don't so I stick to LGA and JFK which are now roughly equidistant from my house. With no traffic I can make it to SmartPark LGA in 20-25 mins and it's about the same to long term parking on Lefferts Blvd. Would I use ISP if Delta flew there? Absolutely! Am I holding my breath to see them re-enter the market? Nope.

I think these comments refer to Moxy. Now, in terms of what destinations Moxy would serve out of ISP with the A220 I haven't a clue.

ISP to the midwest isn't really served but I don't think there's any appreciable demand.

Is there demand for West Coast flights from ISP? LAS - probably. LAX - most places can support a LAX flight if the fares are right, but there's a lot of competition just down the road at JFK. SEA/OAK/SFO - maybe, can an A220 do a route like that, especially with reserves for weather at SFO?

ISP does have the advantage of being the closest airport to Manhattan with actual availability (ie open gate space and no slot restrictions - I realize that limited expansion at EWR is possible right now but really if you were looking at doing more than 3 flights a day as a new entrant, EWR is going to be tough).

INFINITI329 wrote:

An airport with less than 20 daily flights and $70 million upgrades? I dont think so, there many other airports nationwide where this $70 million could be better spent.

That's chump change. Over $140 million have been spent on ORH and it only has 5 daily flights.
https://www.masslive.com/expo/erry-2018 ... airpo.html

airlineworker wrote:

F27500 wrote:

And lets add HVN (New Haven CT) to the wish list cities for JetBlue A220s!!

Got to say Chuck has done a lot for New York's small airports over the years, but where are CT's senators and congressmen regarding HVN?

I don't want to hijack this thread with a rant about HVN but I will say that it apparently is an electric third-rail for CT politicians. In my opinion, a 1,000-1,500ft extension to the main runway would give potential for HVN-Florida flights, and all the riches that would give for the city and surrounding area, but that is not going to happen. More likely the airport closes down completely in the next 10 years than JetBlue (or WN, F9, Moxie) coming to town.
The HVN NIMBYs make all the noise, not the airport.

richierich wrote:

airlineworker wrote:

F27500 wrote:

And lets add HVN (New Haven CT) to the wish list cities for JetBlue A220s!!

Got to say Chuck has done a lot for New York's small airports over the years, but where are CT's senators and congressmen regarding HVN?

I don't want to hijack this thread with a rant about HVN but I will say that it apparently is an electric third-rail for CT politicians. In my opinion, a 1,000-1,500ft extension to the main runway would give potential for HVN-Florida flights, and all the riches that would give for the city and surrounding area, but that is not going to happen. More likely the airport closes down completely in the next 10 years than JetBlue (or WN, F9, Moxie) coming to town.
The HVN NIMBYs make all the noise, not the airport.

The appeal court's decision is due soon and after listening to court proceedings, the state presented a very weak case as the judges were pressing the state's attorney, he actually helped HVN's position,HVN should win the case. AA's loads are very good and starting in May the 3 flights to PHL will go from CRJ'200's to two CRJ-700's and one E-175 and the CLT flight also to a CRJ-700. The 200's were taking weight restrictions and had maintenance issues as opposed to the 700's. One of HVN's big victory was when years back the two 1000 foot overruns were installed making it possible to pave 1000 feet on one end 500 feet on the other. Allegiant has advised the airport with the runway upgraded, it would start service to several Florida cities. I would imagine that with the success AA is having, DL and UA are taking notice and service to DTW and IAD could happen this year. It appears the CRJ-700 and E-175 are a good fit for the present runway. Will post the court's decision when it comes down.

pbodyphoto wrote:

If Islip wants to expand it is going to need a transit option to New York City. It can't thrive solely on Long Island based passengers.

This is key. I agree that ISP is a great option for Central & Eastern Long Island, but probably not enough travelers. However, you add nonstop, or limited stop, train service to Penn Station and Brooklyn, and Jamaica, then I think you have something.

Is ISP far enough out to avoid the air traffic delays that JFK / LGA / EWR experience depending on the runways in use?

pbodyphoto wrote:

If Islip wants to expand it is going to need a transit option to New York City. It can't thrive solely on Long Island based passengers.

That's laughable, ISP's LIRR transit link to NYC is about the same distance from its terminal as JFK's subway link is to its terminals.

Used ISP a bunch during the SW hayday it was and still is a pleasure. Smooth in and out, no crazy nonesensicle weather or air traffic related delays. It's just sad the main runway never got extended and that politics got in the way. Realistically ISP makes most sense for those living from roughly SOB/Route 110 and points east.

hz747300 wrote:

However, you add nonstop, or limited stop, train service to Penn Station and Brooklyn, and Jamaica, then I think you have something.

Already exists through Ronkonkoma, not perfect but atleast its LIRR versus JFK's edge of property subway link or the joke of a transit link to Jamaica by monorail.

hz747300 wrote:

Is ISP far enough out to avoid the air traffic delays that JFK / LGA / EWR experience depending on the runways in use?

Yes, only a departure routing based on JFK's eastbound traffic. It can vary depending on the time of the day and the outbound runway at JFK and ISP.

EAARbrat wrote:

pbodyphoto wrote:

If Islip wants to expand it is going to need a transit option to New York City. It can't thrive solely on Long Island based passengers.

That's laughable, ISP's LIRR transit link to NYC is about the same distance from its terminal as JFK's subway link is to its terminals.

Used ISP a bunch during the SW hayday it was and still is a pleasure. Smooth in and out, no crazy nonesensicle weather or air traffic related delays. It's just sad the main runway never got extended and that politics got in the way. Realistically ISP makes most sense for those living from roughly SOB/Route 110 and points east.

Cool story bro. The LIRR may stop the same distance from the terminal but you don't need to take a taxi from Jamaica Station to JFK. There is also only hourly service to ISP versus every few minutes from JFK

pbodyphoto wrote:

Cool story bro. The LIRR may stop the same distance from the terminal but you don't need to take a taxi from Jamaica Station to JFK. There is also only hourly service to ISP versus every few minutes from JFK

So you take slo-mo rail from Jamaica to JFK or maybe the fall of the rail mono-rail?

Yes only hourly to Jamaica to ISP but nobody goes to ISP to get to NYC or vice versa so not sure why the transit commentary since its effectively irrelevant. Only a super high speed rail could make ISP viable for NYC and that's never going to happen. Heck JFK and LGA are embarrassments considering there is no direct link to NYC (Penn Station). Laughably its been in the development plan since 1959 even pre-JFK/Idlewild.

N292UX wrote:

Doubt it. JFK is B6's main base and it is just down the road from ISP. There's no reason for them start flying to ISP when they have JFK right up the road. LGA and EWR are a little different, so there's a reason why they fly to those 2. ISP? A little different. I think B6 has a few other destinations they should focus on launching first, namely IND, STL, MCI, SAT, and CVG. Add TATL flights if they get approved for those with the A321neo. That'd include at least London, and most likely DUB. So if it ever does happen, it won't happen for a while.

, JBLU need not fly Transcon from Islip though they could test the waters by flying ISP-BOS, ISP MIA, ISP-ORD, ISP-IAH, ISP-DFW, ISP-DEN, and other routes as they prove the market. The populous near ISP is as much as any Mid Major City and people might enjoy NOT having to drive in from outer Long Island as they do at present.

I agree with the people who have said the first and likely only option you'd see B6 try from ISP is Florida... low risk, established market, and it would allow them to keep market share from the region on those routes while possibly using a few JFK slots for something more exciting.

I was wondering how F9 is doing load factor wise on those routes. They seem to like to move into these secondary airports and then quickly leave again (I'm thinking ILG) but is this one sticking?

varsity wrote:

I agree with the people who have said the first and likely only option you'd see B6 try from ISP is Florida... low risk, established market, and it would allow them to keep market share from the region on those routes while possibly using a few JFK slots for something more exciting.

I was wondering how F9 is doing load factor wise on those routes. They seem to like to move into these secondary airports and then quickly leave again (I'm thinking ILG) but is this one sticking?

I agree it would work, however I don't know how likely it is for B6 to do so. I see a similar "reliever" strategy to what AS is doing at PAE: add flights from a peripheral airport on routes that can sustain high load factors, and freeing up gates/slots at the main airport to expand service elsewhere.

Makes sense, but I doubt it'll happen.

It is interesting that Jetblue's reason for not choosing to enter the Islip market is the overlap with the JFK/LGA market, however in the near term they are pretty restricted from growth at those two airports. Unless their traffic to from JFK to FLL/MCO (the most likely candidate for service from ISP) is entirely local (which it's most likely only 80%-90% O/D), then there is room for more seats in the form of a nonstop from ISP. And worse case it opens room for more nonstop offerings to other destinations from their JFK hub. In addition, it would only help their look at "NY's Hometown Airline" for them to add service to another Tri-state area airport.