I have some questions that keep getting multiple answers when I research them about post-Lorenzo Eastern.

1) Did the A300s ever return to service post Lorenzo removal? I know the 757s, L1011s, DC-9s and 727s did to some extent but I'm looking for info specifically if any of the EA A300s flew services again before the final shutdown.

2) Eastern Express in the North East... what types operated post-Lorenzo? I know there were still flights done by Bar Harbor but what were the NE services flown with, I know Florida services included SF340s, B1900C and B99s... and I know the ATRs were all sent to COExpress services, but what WAS flying BOS/LGA/EWR/JFK/DCA based runs under Bar Harbor (PBA)? OAG shows all BEC in the Winter 90 timetable... was it in fact all B99?

3) Did the court ever actually fine Texas International or Continental for some of the found illegal financial actions in the 88-89 period that resulted in Lorenzo being removed by court order? I know Lorenzo personally has an injunction against him but did either of the corporate entities?

And I HAVE searched google/ old news/ books/ etc... I'm just looking for some other knowledge or even informed opinions. I'm hoping some of the old timers here might have some info I've missed?

I'm trying to compile a database of Eastern Air Lines info... so any info is greatly appreciated!

northstardc4m wrote:

I have some questions that keep getting multiple answers when I research them about post-Lorenzo Eastern.

1) Did the A300s ever return to service post Lorenzo removal? I know the 757s, L1011s, DC-9s and 727s did to some extent but I'm looking for info specifically if any of the EA A300s flew services again before the final shutdown.

I remember seeing the A300B @ LAX in 1989 and 1990.

See planespotters.net for fleet disposition.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/E ... storic&p=3

I can tell you first-hand that A300s were operating at least up to two weeks before the shutdown.

EAL shut down on January 19, 1991. My wife and I flew on EAL round-trip from LAX via ATL to San Juan, Puerto Rico, out on December 28-29, 1990, and back on January 5, 1991. Service was on A300 both ways between LAX and ATL, and L-1011 between ATL and SJU.

These scanned photos aren't great, but they show something of EAL's fleet during that week. The first photo is is our A300 very early in the morning at Nashville, after our red-eye LAX-ATL flight diverted due to fog at ATL. The other photos are through the terminal windows at a still-foggy ATL later the same day.







The shutdown date had not yet been officially announced, but tension among the employees was palpable. Some cabin crew made their best effort to keep a smile and provide good service; others not so much. When we landed back at LAX, the FA's cabin announcement concluded, "We thank you for flying Eastern Airlines, and when you next make your travel plans, we hope you'll ... [pause] ... remember us."

1. Remember that Eastern IAM strike was March 1989 at which time most of the operation was shut down. Operations were ramped up later in the year with many of the aircraft, including A300s. Marty didn't take over until April 1990.

2. When Eastern filed for bankruptcy, the Bar Harbor Beeches and SAABs were repainted into a neutral color scheme and the flights were marketed with both Eastern and Continental codes. In August 1990, some of the Beech C99s and 1900s were transferred to Britt Airways which operated the EA* and CO* flights in the northeast (I think only C99s flew the EA* flights). The remaining C99s, 1900s, and SAABs were repainted in Eastern colors and moved to Florida.

3. Nothing punitive. But a bankruptcy examiner did find that Texas Air underpaid between $285MM and $400MM for Eastern assets that were acquired by Texas Air. Texas Air ended up paying an additional $280MM, which was funded by selling off part of System One.

Love those three pictures... Very sad. Personally speaking, I flew on Eastern A-300 on January 13, 1991 (5 days before shutdown). The route was PDX-SEA-ATL. So, Eastern was operating A-300 flights until Friday, January 18, 1991 at 11:59 p.m. That week, after series of discussions with bankruptcy court and creditors, Martin Shugrue, Jr. pulled the plug at 4:23 p.m. on January 18. Eastern should have not shutdown entirely but reduce schedule and fleet by 75%.

Bankruptcy court judge ruled Lorenzo unfit at Eastern and removed him. That's all I know. Lorenzo is a good guy outside the airline industry. In fact, both Shugrue and Lorenzo are close friends and lived in Houston. Shugrue worked under Lorenzo as Vice President at Continental.

Frank Borman ordered too many A-300s and L-1011s....

September11 wrote:

Love those three pictures... Very sad. Personally speaking, I flew on Eastern A-300 on January 13, 1991 (5 days before shutdown). The route was PDX-SEA-ATL. So, Eastern was operating A-300 flights until Friday, January 18, 1991 at 11:59 p.m. That week, after series of discussions with bankruptcy court and creditors, Martin Shugrue, Jr. pulled the plug at 4:23 p.m. on January 18. Eastern should have not shutdown entirely but reduce schedule and fleet by 75%.

Bankruptcy court judge ruled Lorenzo unfit at Eastern and removed him. That's all I know. Lorenzo is a good guy outside the airline industry. In fact, both Shugrue and Lorenzo are close friends and lived in Houston. Shugrue worked under Lorenzo as Vice President at Continental.

Frank Borman ordered too many A-300s and L-1011s....

Well Borman didn't order the Tristars he did the 757s and A300s... He never really liked the L10 either but needed them... EA maintenance soured on them quickly after the oil gasket fiasco as well.

Anyways thanks for the answers folks... The pics really helped. If the 300s were flying on the 18th then I guess that settles my last issues with the final fleet ops.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Pilawt wrote:

I can tell you first-hand that A300s were operating at least up to two weeks before the shutdown.

EAL shut down on January 19, 1991. My wife and I flew on EAL round-trip from LAX via ATL to San Juan, Puerto Rico, out on December 28-29, 1990, and back on January 5, 1991. Service was on A300 both ways between LAX and ATL, and L-1011 between ATL and SJU.

While the A300 remained in the fleet, it appears to me that the L1011 was on the way out.

I have Official Airline Guides from both January 1991 and February 1991. The January edition shows only two routes flown by the L1011....Atlanta to San Juan and Miami to Los Angeles. The February edition shows one L1011 flight.....Atlanta to San Juan.

Eastern was operating L1011s for troop movements based out of Rome. From your photo, it appears as though you may have been on one of them...
Notice the absence of the American flag on the number two engine.

There are a couple of interesting things I have noticed about the February Official Airline Guide in regard to Eastern. Had the company survived there would have been new service to San Antonio, TX from Atlanta and the only destinations left nonstop from Miami were Atlanta, Laguardia, Los Angeles, Toronto, Washington and San Juan.

Cody wrote:

There are a couple of interesting things I have noticed about the February Official Airline Guide in regard to Eastern. Had the company survived there would have been new service to San Antonio, TX from Atlanta.

And Minneapolis

Didn’t Eastern make a big push in its final year or so to get business travelers? I remember newspaper advertisements touting First Class. Did Eastern revamp its a First Class product towards the end? If so, how?

questions wrote:

Didn’t Eastern make a big push in its final year or so to get business travelers? I remember newspaper advertisements touting First Class. Did Eastern revamp its a First Class product towards the end? If so, how?

Yes and it was a great idea. Had the price of oil not gone up due to Sadam Hussein invading Kuwait they may very well have pulled it off.

They doubled the First Class section on the narrow bodies and sold the seats below the highest coach price offered at other carriers. On-time performance was number one in the industry. It was the business traveler's dream.

Cody wrote:

Eastern was operating L1011s for troop movements based out of Rome. From your photo, it appears as though you may have been on one of them...
Notice the absence of the American flag on the number two engine.

That's just one of the final EA color variations, nothing to do with the trooping flights. They made some changes to the color scheme more than a few times but near the end specifically:

Omit the Black nosecone and glareshield (enthusiasts call this scheme the "Blue Nose" version for that reason)
Flag moved from behind titles or tail intake to next to registration in stripe or next registration above the window line on at least 1 757.
Ship number at nose moved onto metal area (this one actually got on to about 75% of the fleet by the end... could be blue or white).

This was not a single concerted effort however and there are mixtures of different variations, mostly it was "get them painted and out there".

Here is a couple 727s with the whole combo done (probably both done as they were returned from leases):



Eventually the whole fleet was to be returned to the full width over window stripes as well, but as most of the updates were done piecemeal there are some thin stripe blue nose examples.

Nosecones were a big indicator though of the upcoming change, there were many 727s especially with all blue nosecones and otherwise left alone paint... was there some bad luck with nosecones at the time?

The trooping flights were done with ship 334 and another I have been unable to identify (332 possibly) did a very few. Here is 334 in Frankfurt Jan 91 doing those:



You can see it's still got the tail flag and the older full "thin stripe" colors. BUT it has the all blue nosecone.


And just to be complete... some of the variations:

[/quote]

That's just one of the final EA color variations, nothing to do with the trooping flights[/quotle]

Do you happen to know if they planned on refurbishing the economy section? I saw the new Business Class section and remember it looked very nice with new two-tone grey seats, blue carpet, blue striped bulkheads and curtains that were blue on the first class side and brown on the coach side. It was like being on two different planes. I heard they had one 757 with brand new coach seats.

Do you know anything about this?

northstardc4m wrote:

I know the 757s, L1011s, DC-9s and 727s did to some extent but I'm looking for info specifically if any of the EA A300s flew services again before the final shutdown.

You just listed their entire fleet lol.

Cody wrote:

That's just one of the final EA color variations, nothing to do with the trooping flights[/quotle]

Do you happen to know if they planned on refurbishing the economy section? I saw the new Business Class section and remember it looked very nice with new two-tone grey seats, blue carpet, blue striped bulkheads and curtains that were blue on the first class side and brown on the coach side. It was like being on two different planes. I heard they had one 757 with brand new coach seats.

Do you know anything about this?

There were plans for a complete interior makeover, but as far as i know if it was done it was only applied to a small number of planes. However there was also a new design from before the 89 shutdown to confuse things that did get put into a few aircraft.

The first makeover also had the 2 tone leather up front.

The new plan had a bigger "First" seat with Grey/Light Teal shaded Grey leather and blue bunting, economy a blue/red fabric with white/blue headrest covers. I don't have anything on the bulkheads, curtains or sidewalls.

Some of the planes had different interiors but there was much inconsistency, a couple 727s had economy seats from Avianca for example after leases.

northstardc4m wrote:

Some of the planes had different interiors but there was much inconsistency, a couple 727s had economy seats from Avianca for example after leases.

Especially Eastern's DC-9-51s acquired from Muse Air in 1987 (N###MC). All blue leather seats, no rear galley.

Eastern had few DC-9-32s from Texas International (N###TX). Cabin layout on DC-9-31s and DC-9-32s weren't aligned.

Fresh paint, new first class (except on wide bodies - they were going to use 757 to replace all A-300 and L-1011), doubled first class seats, revamped inflight services, additional flight attendant on all flights, new uniforms for all personnel...

I believe Eastern intended to park all L-1011s and A-300s in 1991 and use 757s from ATL to: LAX, SFO, SEA/PDX... MIA-LAX route was discontinued weeks before shutdown.

Good effort of Shugrue and Eastern in the end!

September11 wrote:

northstardc4m wrote:

Some of the planes had different interiors but there was much inconsistency, a couple 727s had economy seats from Avianca for example after leases.

Especially Eastern's DC-9-51s acquired from Muse Air in 1987 (N###MC). All blue leather seats, no rear galley.

Eastern had few DC-9-32s from Texas International (N###TX). Cabin layout on DC-9-31s and DC-9-32s weren't aligned.

Fresh paint, new first class (except on wide bodies - they were going to use 757 to replace all A-300 and L-1011), doubled first class seats, revamped inflight services, additional flight attendant on all flights, new uniforms for all personnel...

I believe Eastern intended to park all L-1011s and A-300s in 1991 and use 757s from ATL to: LAX, SFO, SEA/PDX... MIA-LAX route was discontinued weeks before shutdown.

Good effort of Shugrue and Eastern in the end!

N###MC DC-9-51s were actually acquired from TranStar

On side note, Shugrue's long-term plan was to procure 737s to replace all 727s and DC-9s before 2000.

September11 wrote:

September11 wrote:

northstardc4m wrote:

Some of the planes had different interiors but there was much inconsistency, a couple 727s had economy seats from Avianca for example after leases.

Especially Eastern's DC-9-51s acquired from Muse Air in 1987 (N###MC). All blue leather seats, no rear galley.

Eastern had few DC-9-32s from Texas International (N###TX). Cabin layout on DC-9-31s and DC-9-32s weren't aligned.

Fresh paint, new first class (except on wide bodies - they were going to use 757 to replace all A-300 and L-1011), doubled first class seats, revamped inflight services, additional flight attendant on all flights, new uniforms for all personnel...

I believe Eastern intended to park all L-1011s and A-300s in 1991 and use 757s from ATL to: LAX, SFO, SEA/PDX... MIA-LAX route was discontinued weeks before shutdown.

Good effort of Shugrue and Eastern in the end!

N###MC DC-9-51s were actually acquired from TranStar

On side note, Shugrue's long-term plan was to procure 737s to replace all 727s and DC-9s before 2000.

If you want to get really technical they were "acquired" from Continental who gave (well i think it was $1 a month or something for 12 months each) Southwest leases on 3x 737-200s (ex-Frontier) for them in part and traded earlier order slots on 737-300s, along with cash, when they shut down TranStar which was the post WN takeover name for Muse Air. CO also bought the remaining MC MD80 fleet. WN ended up only keeping those 732s about a year. Part of a deal in which CO got A300s in return from EA (EA fins 209-213, 215, 217) for the DC-9-51s and a few DC-9-30s.

Also Shugrue's 737 plan was one of 3 options the board was given information on, another was to take over part of the PA/BN A320 order (HP got it instead), and yet another was to order/lease F100s to replace the DC-9s/727-100s, and more 757s for the 727-200s. The 737-300 was his chosen favorite but it never was actually decided on or any money spent anywhere on it. Lorenzo was also to route an order for 20 737-300s to EA right around the time of the 89 shutdown, of course that order never happened... CO ended up with them.

Eastern also had 8 ex-Allegheny (401-408) and 4 ex-Hawaiian (418-421) DC-9-51s... all had slightly different equipment fits though the seating layouts did match more or less. There is also the entire mixed bag of EA 727-200 configs...

I'd like to add few notes here. When Eastern resumed service from pilot strike in 1989, some of Eastern D9Ss were still parked due to pilot shortage. Many veteran pilots opted to stay out of Eastern and newly hired Eastern pilots were still in training at that time. So, Continental operated some of Eastern's flights using D9S aircraft in full Continental colors and crew on temporary basis. That practice lasted about 2 or 3 months. Eastern agents at airports had to advise passengers this: "Flight operated by Continental aircraft and crew". I didn't forget I was on one of those flights. Needless to say, DC-9 was Eastern's largest fleet - roughly 70 D9Ss and 20 D95s.

I think Eastern's 72Ss from PSA were all coach seats. Those aircraft were used on DC-NY-Boston shuttle routes. In October of 1989, I flew from ATL to MCO on one of ex-PSA 72S. The flight was all coach seats. Some first class passengers weren't happy to sit in coach, despite having first class boarding passes. Eastern must have a total of about 50 72S.

Once the strike happened, the remaining 727-100s were dumped. There were maybe 110 727s total as of March 4, 1989.
WOW...30th anniversary coming up


By the way, no one has brought up the DC-10s. Were they still operating to the end? Or did those go to AA ?

727LOVER wrote:

Once the strike happened, the remaining 727-100s were dumped. There were maybe 110 727s total as of March 4, 1989.
WOW...30th anniversary coming up


By the way, no one has brought up the DC-10s. Were they still operating to the end? Or did those go to AA ?

Eastern had two DC-10s after the strike. However, Eastern were utilizing three DC-10s on MIA-GIG-EZE and MIA-LAX routes before and during the strike. (Yes, Eastern did operate some flights during the strike, mostly MIA-South America, Canada and LAX flights). They were used on MIA-GIG-EZE route after the strike. I flew MIA-GIG-EZE once. Soon after Eastern's sale of South America routes to AA in late summer of 1990, Eastern's two DC-10s went to Continental.

You kindled a spark and I decided to further examine my January 1991 Official Airline Guide. Here are a few corrections from my previous statement above.

* I had mentioned the only L1011 routes remaining were one roundtrip ATL-SJU and one rountrip MIA-LAX (a red eye by the way.) Well I found one additional roundtrip and it was between MIA and LGA but was scheduled to be discontinued on January 30th. By February, the only L1011 flight scheduled was between ATL and SJU.

* I was a little off on the Miami flights. The January 1991 Miami schedule shows 26 mainline flights per day and the only remaining nonstop destinations were LAX, ATL, DCA, YYZ, LGA, PBI, CUN, and STT.

* I am showing ZERO repeat ZERO Eastern Express flights in the Northeast. The only Eastern Express service feeds ATL with Jetstream 31s and Dash 8. There is a network throughout Florida with SF 340s, Beech 99s, and Beech 1900s and San Juan to a few islands with Twin Otters.

* As far as I can see, Eastern never returned to JFK after the strike which is odd because they had their own terminal and a fairly large maintenance base there.

Eastern's Atlanta hub was awesome. I would imagine Delta would have around 700 flight and Eastern 350 if they were still around today. I used to love watching the A300 from Concourse D in Atlanta takeoff. You could always tell what type of aircraft it was without seeing it, because of the A300 very distinct sound before leaving the ground at full speed.

Atlwarrior wrote:

Eastern's Atlanta hub was awesome. I would imagine Delta would have around 700 flight and Eastern 350 if they were still around today.

How do you figure THAT???

Cody wrote:

As far as I can see, Eastern never returned to JFK after the strike which is odd because they had their own terminal and a fairly large maintenance base there.

I think they only had about 15 flights at the beginning of 1989

Besides JFK, the only cities in the east they never returned to were ROC & SYR. Can't remember if EYW mainline ended before the strike. They added MDT & ROA, IIRC

September11 wrote:

727LOVER wrote:

Once the strike happened, the remaining 727-100s were dumped. There were maybe 110 727s total as of March 4, 1989.
WOW...30th anniversary coming up


By the way, no one has brought up the DC-10s. Were they still operating to the end? Or did those go to AA ?

Eastern had two DC-10s after the strike. However, Eastern were utilizing three DC-10s on MIA-GIG-EZE and MIA-LAX routes before and during the strike. (Yes, Eastern did operate some flights during the strike, mostly MIA-South America, Canada and LAX flights). They were used on MIA-GIG-EZE route after the strike. I flew MIA-GIG-EZE once. Soon after Eastern's sale of South America routes to AA in late summer of 1990, Eastern's two DC-10s went to Continental.

Eastern only had 3 DC-10s for a short period in 1986. N390EA was sold to Continental (for a realistic price in cash no less) when EA abandoned plans for MIA-MAD and MIA-AMS, CO was desperate for DC-10-30s at the time to increase frequencies in the Pacific. Through Summer 87 the two other DC-10s flew the daily MIA-LGW-MIA rotation only. In late 87 LGW was dropped to 6x weekly and the DC-10s began routing weekly MIA-LGW-MIA-LGW-MIA-LGW-MIA-ATL-LAX-LIM-SCL-LIM-LAX-ATL-MIA 3 or 4 days separated. Eventually LGW was dropped slowly to 5x then 3x, and DC-10s were sent on MIA-GIG-GRU-MIA and MIA-LIM-SCL-EZE and various permutations of those routings into 1989. In 90 the timetables got shuffled around alot (DC-10s showed up at JFK and ORD at times) until September when both 391 and 392 were "sold" to Continental who started flying MIA-LGW instead of EA, and the ElInter-Americano network was sold to AA. One DC-10 flew during the entire strike, 392. 391 was stuck on the ground for most of it due to an engine issue and a court injunction granted the IAM to prevent CO from doing the work, though it did get a bit of a makeover as a result including the "blue nose" update.

Cody wrote:

You kindled a spark and I decided to further examine my January 1991 Official Airline Guide. Here are a few corrections from my previous statement above.


* I am showing ZERO repeat ZERO Eastern Express flights in the Northeast. The only Eastern Express service feeds ATL with Jetstream 31s and Dash 8. There is a network throughout Florida with SF 340s, Beech 99s, and Beech 1900s and San Juan to a few islands with Twin Otters.

The Eastern code-share ended in the northeast on August 1, 1990. The northeast routes were transferred to Britt Airways on August 16.

A few interesting finds in the February 1991 Official Airline Guide. EAL was gone, but this was the plan....

* Roanoke was to be discontinued altogether.

* As previously mentioned, The only remaining L1011 route was ATL-SJU and was only to be operated on Saturdays and Sundays.

* As previously noted, MSP is back from ATL three times a day.

* SAT is back from both ATL and HOU. HOU is also served from ATL and DCA. Future focus city perhaps....

* MIA would have shrunk even further. As previously mentioned, the nonstop to LAX is now gone as well as STT.

727LOVER wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Eastern's Atlanta hub was awesome. I would imagine Delta would have around 700 flight and Eastern 350 if they were still around today.

How do you figure THAT???

Cody wrote:

As far as I can see, Eastern never returned to JFK after the strike which is odd because they had their own terminal and a fairly large maintenance base there.

I think they only had about 15 flights at the beginning of 1989

Besides JFK, the only cities in the east they never returned to were ROC & SYR. Can't remember if EYW mainline ended before the strike. They added MDT & ROA, IIRC

It was just a guess on how maybe it would be 30 years later, if Eastern was still around. In the late 80's Delta Atlanta flights were around 450 daily and Eastern Atlanta flights was near 300 a day.

Just an FYI:

Eastern was going to relocate their headquarters office to Atlanta... Shugrue planned to close Miami hub and make Atlanta a stronger hub.

northstardc4m wrote:

391 was stuck on the ground for most of it due to an engine issue and a court injunction granted the IAM to prevent CO from doing the work, though it did get a bit of a makeover as a result including the "blue nose" update.

& 391 was later involved in the Air France Concorde fatal accident...

The 727-100s never returned after the strike. Two A300s were fitted with about fifty First Class seats towards the very end. I believe all remaining DC-9-30s ended up with 22 First Class seats; 727s and 757s had 24. I don’t remember the number for DC-9-50s. There were actually a few (I think it was five) all-coach 727-200s delivered new from Boeing; they were not the same as the Shuttle aircraft and seated 177. Eastern had severely curtailed inflight service in the years leading up to the strike. After Lorenzo was gone, we went all out to rebuild our reputation. Aside from the new interiors and modified paint scheme mentioned above, we got new uniforms and the best meals I’ve ever seen....even the crew meals! We were number one in ontime performance and were supposedly weeks from turning a profit when Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait sent oil prices soaring. We were just too week at that point to survive ~

MIflyer12 wrote:

See planespotters.net for fleet disposition.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/E ... storic&p=3

So I see that TWA took several of the dc9-50s. Does anyone know if they were for expansion or were they replacing other aircraft?

I remember Bar Harbor flying under Eastern colors to PWM with ATR-42 and Beech 1900's. I think to BOS, but it could have been LGA or both, too.

gr8slvrflt wrote:

The 727-100s never returned after the strike. Two A300s were fitted with about fifty First Class seats towards the very end. I believe all remaining DC-9-30s ended up with 22 First Class seats; 727s and 757s had 24. I don’t remember the number for DC-9-50s. There were actually a few (I think it was five) all-coach 727-200s delivered new from Boeing; they were not the same as the Shuttle aircraft and seated 177. Eastern had severely curtailed inflight service in the years leading up to the strike. After Lorenzo was gone, we went all out to rebuild our reputation. Aside from the new interiors and modified paint scheme mentioned above, we got new uniforms and the best meals I’ve ever seen....even the crew meals! We were number one in ontime performance and were supposedly weeks from turning a profit when Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait sent oil prices soaring. We were just too week at that point to survive ~

There were at least 20 727-100s still on the property 01/91, but no as far as i know they were never flown in the post-Lorenzo era.

Yes EA was supposedly 3 quarters from being fully "in the black" when the fuel spike from the Gulf War basically ripped the life left out. I feel so bad for all the employees to stuck it out till the end, the roller coaster of BOHICA to We're gonna make it! and back again must of been so draining.

quickmover wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

See planespotters.net for fleet disposition.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/E ... storic&p=3

So I see that TWA took several of the dc9-50s. Does anyone know if they were for expansion or were they replacing other aircraft?

Expansion... TWA actually stepped into alot of former EA markets, they even had an ATL minihub for a while.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

I remember Bar Harbor flying under Eastern colors to PWM with ATR-42 and Beech 1900's. I think to BOS, but it could have been LGA or both, too.

Bar Harbor fed EA at BOS, JFK, EWR and LGA. They flew ATR42s, Saab 340s, B1900Cs, B99s in EAX colors. PBA, Precision Airlines, Southern Jersey and Britt also flew Eastern Express in the North East at various times. BH eventually merged PBA, Precision dropped EA to go with Northwest, Southern Jersey went under.

If Iraq and the Kuwait saga had not happened, do you think EA would have survived? It sounds like things were really turning around before that mess!

quickmover wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

See planespotters.net for fleet disposition.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/E ... storic&p=3

So I see that TWA took several of the dc9-50s. Does anyone know if they were for expansion or were they replacing other aircraft?

TWA were trying to build Atlanta into a hub... Can you imagine that?

Atlwarrior wrote:

Eastern's Atlanta hub was awesome. I would imagine Delta would have around 700 flight and Eastern 350 if they were still around today. I used to love watching the A300 from Concourse D in Atlanta takeoff. You could always tell what type of aircraft it was without seeing it, because of the A300 very distinct sound before leaving the ground at full speed.

Eastern still had about 280-300 mainline flights at the time of the strike in 1989. A real strong number 2 to Delta. Had been No. 1 in Atlanta till about 1985.

northstardc4m wrote:

Yes EA was supposedly 3 quarters from being fully "in the black" when the fuel spike from the Gulf War basically ripped the life left out.

Did you know Shugrue put Eastern up for sale in final weeks? He was in talks with Northwest to buy Eastern. He did not want to shutdown the airline but he had to.

F9Animal wrote:

If Iraq and the Kuwait saga had not happened, do you think EA would have survived? It sounds like things were really turning around before that mess!

Long term I don't think so at least by itself... it could of turned around long enough to be a solid merger partner though. There was just too much debt, even if the Gulf War hadn't happened something would of.

September11 wrote:

northstardc4m wrote:

Yes EA was supposedly 3 quarters from being fully "in the black" when the fuel spike from the Gulf War basically ripped the life left out.

Did you know Shugrue put Eastern up for sale in final weeks? He was in talks with Northwest to buy Eastern. He did not want to shutdown the airline but he had to.

He really didn't have much choice by that point... Northwest was one suitor, there were others... but no one would commit in the end.

gr8slvrflt wrote:

Two A300s were fitted with about fifty First Class seats towards the very end.

All A300s, 48 seats, I thought

September11 wrote:

quickmover wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

See planespotters.net for fleet disposition.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/E ... storic&p=3

So I see that TWA took several of the dc9-50s. Does anyone know if they were for expansion or were they replacing other aircraft?

TWA were trying to build Atlanta into a hub... Can you imagine that?

Yes TWA had flights from 1992 to maybe about 1995 up and down the east coast with 3 or 4 banks. Started out just with MCO, FLL, TPA, DTW, LGA, DCA, and BOS in addition to JFK and STL hubs but grew it to about 50-60 flights a day eventually adding MIA, MSY, MDW, PHL, CMH and other points IIRC.

September11 wrote:

Just an FYI:

Eastern was going to relocate their headquarters office to Atlanta... Shugrue planned to close Miami hub and make Atlanta a stronger hub.

Correct, after MIA became a large spoke following the sale of the LatAm division to AA.

F9Animal wrote:

If Iraq and the Kuwait saga had not happened, do you think EA would have survived? It sounds like things were really turning around before that mess!

A really good question. I tend to think PA was doomed and TW despite a valiant post-Ichan effort was also doomed. Even though both survived the Gulf War which EA did not, Eastern might well with a strong ATL hub been able to last longer. ATL was so lucrative and with EA's remaining infrastructure an airline focused around battling DL there, plus with the residual name ID EA carried would have had a shot.

EA which went before PA and well before TW may have well rallied and outlasted both IMO - the timing of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was a killer. Just happened at the absolute worst time.

September11 wrote:

northstardc4m wrote:

Yes EA was supposedly 3 quarters from being fully "in the black" when the fuel spike from the Gulf War basically ripped the life left out.

Did you know Shugrue put Eastern up for sale in final weeks? He was in talks with Northwest to buy Eastern. He did not want to shutdown the airline but he had to.

I think had NW gotten ATL and been more patient with EA's DCA ops which they took over after Eastern collapsed, they might have really become a powerhouse. ATL was the key. TW was too weak to really challenge DL. We see how well FL eventually did with it even with the limitations of that airline. I still ATL is one of only two US airports (ORD the other...can argue DFW maybe) that could handle a second network airline having hub. But in this era we are down to three network carriers so it's never going to happen.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Eastern's Atlanta hub was awesome. I would imagine Delta would have around 700 flight and Eastern 350 if they were still around today. I used to love watching the A300 from Concourse D in Atlanta takeoff. You could always tell what type of aircraft it was without seeing it, because of the A300 very distinct sound before leaving the ground at full speed.

Eastern still had about 280-300 mainline flights at the time of the strike in 1989. A real strong number 2 to Delta. Had been No. 1 in Atlanta till about 1985.

Not only Eastern was #1 in Atlanta but Eastern carried the most passengers worldwide in 1985. Now that's a serious downfall. The public was shocked to see Eastern fold that way in few years.

727LOVER wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Eastern's Atlanta hub was awesome. I would imagine Delta would have around 700 flight and Eastern 350 if they were still around today.

How do you figure THAT???

Cody wrote:

As far as I can see, Eastern never returned to JFK after the strike which is odd because they had their own terminal and a fairly large maintenance base there.

I think they only had about 15 flights at the beginning of 1989

Besides JFK, the only cities in the east they never returned to were ROC & SYR. Can't remember if EYW mainline ended before the strike. They added MDT & ROA, IIRC

Returned to DFW also. That has been discounted in 1988 and was brought back in 1990. But yes the rest are correct. JFK never returned after the strike, EYW mainline ended at the strike (March 1989).

They were planning on returning to MSP also which had been shut in 1988. Not sure if they did. I think that might have actually returned in DEC 1990 or JAN 1991 right before the shutdown.

September11 wrote:

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Eastern's Atlanta hub was awesome. I would imagine Delta would have around 700 flight and Eastern 350 if they were still around today. I used to love watching the A300 from Concourse D in Atlanta takeoff. You could always tell what type of aircraft it was without seeing it, because of the A300 very distinct sound before leaving the ground at full speed.

Eastern still had about 280-300 mainline flights at the time of the strike in 1989. A real strong number 2 to Delta. Had been No. 1 in Atlanta till about 1985.

Not only Eastern was #1 in Atlanta but Eastern carried the most passengers worldwide in 1985. Now that's a serious downfall. The public was shocked to see Eastern fold that way so quickly.

Correct. In 1985 EA was the largest airline in the western world. By the time of the strike in 1989 it was seventh in US. That's a SERIOUS downfall as you say. A combination of mergers involving other US carriers and serious EA downsizing. I don't think most people realize how big EA really was. It gets lumped in with Braniff and Pan Am as far as airline failures. Both were legendary carriers also, Pan Am at one time the largest international airline in the world, but PA began downsizing in the early 1970's and limped along for a long time. Braniff was a neat carrier with a flamboyant streak but never very large by comparison to EA. Not only was Eastern huge but it was huge in the business centers that mattered back then, when the US was even more northeast-centric than today. Throw in being the primary north-south carrier between Florida, ATL, CLT and the Northeast and at least east of the Mississippi thew dwarfed everyone for a long long time.