ikramerica wrote:

Aesma wrote:

sasd209 wrote:

Not if it is in your contract, based on local laws. We can be required to work OT, at managements discretion, at the pay rate of time and a half.

How does that work if you have plans after your usual work shift, appointments, etc., is the OT relatively flexible ?

Dont confuse working overtime with staying late.

Overtime is usually scheduled in advance. Its just paid time over 40 hours at a higher rate, for example. Its done this way for many reasons. Labor rules, laws, etc.
In my first job we were expected to work 5 9 hour days so the final 5 hours were scheduled overtime at 150%. If we worked on a holiday it was 150% for 4 hours and 200% for the 5 hours. Occasionally we were on for 6 days, but that was as a substitution and you could say no. But at 150% pay I usually said yes. Either way, making plans for off time was not hard.

In a salaried job, thats where they get you. No overtime pay, but often required to work late or weekends with no notice and no sympathy. Law associates, investment banking analysts, architecture associates. 70, 80, 90 hours a week.

If it's like that in your contract can the employer do the opposite and only give you the 40 hours to work ?

airliner371 wrote:

6 years without a contract for Maintenance workers?... Herb would be disappointed. .-Southwest Fan

Actually, Herb would be proud, and congratulating the Management. I say this having worked there for 7 years in the Herb era, and dragging their feet was the number one negotiating tactic since the beginning of Time at WN. Contracts there in every department routinely run expired for many years, even for the pilots a while back. This is in an effort to "wear down" the employees who supposedly get sick of the delays and may take a substandard offer from Management. Herb was ALL about saving money! Yes, he loved his employees, but really liked to drag out any contract negotiations as long as possible.

AMFA Update

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/unio ... 20Airlines

IAM/TWU Update

http://www.usaamerger.com/

Boof02671 wrote:

Ask the Executives, I was on the IAM/US Airways Mechanic and Related Negotiating Committee as that’s where I worked and also was on the IAM/CO Flight Attendant Negotiating Committee also, people have no idea what it entails.

Why does that not surprise me?

I am not biased since I’m pro-worker and pro-union, and your snide comments are not needed and immature.

I posted the links to relevant information.

Since when is profit sharing considered part of your hourly wage? That’s one of the most insecure and variable metric to use for compensation. If you want to argue that it should be included, you’d have to also admit that everyone at UA took pay cuts this year, since profit sharing levels are at all time lows.

Profit sharing is NOT part of your wages, can’t get a mortgage based on profit sharing.

bob75013 wrote:

WN employees got 10.8% profit sharing , so up the WN number to $42.75.

That is not even close to how profit sharing is calculated

10% went into the employees 401k, only .8% was cash, it doesn’t go into hourly wages and no financial institution will let you use it to count as wages.

And what if there are no profits?

I believe they got 10.8% of their total yearly income.

So if you made a $1000 you got $100 in your 401k and eight dollars in your check.

Boof02671 wrote:

Company stresses duty of mechanics, inspectors to get to work. Carrier warns employees could be fired for unexcused absences

There seems to have been a string of issues that have surfaced in the last few years which have sparked FAA action. Add a unsettled contract with mechanics. As always this always has to point to the desk where the buck stops. If the company fires mechanics guess what - they will have even fewer mechanics. At some point I expect the Southwest Board of Directors will have to decided whether to reevaluate the current CEO.

Isn't it not the issue of the mechanics? Like airline management knew this was going to happen when the cycled off the planes.
Then its like OMG how did this happen? Quick! Fix our mistake mechanics! And if you can't then your fired *company policy, wink.*

So dumb, even if all these planes coming off wasn't in their control (which isn't the case) then don't give ultimatums to the people below you.

They should have tried the other method and is encourage compliance through a bonus. For example perfect attendance for the next 6 weeks you will earn an extra vacation day to be used in the last 6 months of the year, or a $200 bonus, or extra “Southwest bucks” (can’t remember what they call their “merit points”), etc.

It sucks for the company to have to pay extra to gain compliance if they have a feeling people are abusing policy. But, it is better than the alternative (what they are doing now) and forcing compliance through brute force and morale crushing policy. The wounds they cause now are emotional and will last years or even decades, whereas costs for giving out bonuses for perfect attendance costs the company once and can avoid long term impacts to morale.

KarlB737 wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

Company stresses duty of mechanics, inspectors to get to work. Carrier warns employees could be fired for unexcused absences

There seems to have been a string of issues that have surfaced in the last few years which have sparked FAA action. Add a unsettled contract with mechanics. As always this always has to point to the desk where the buck stops. If the company fires mechanics guess what - they will have even fewer mechanics. At some point I expect the Southwest Board of Directors will have to decided whether to reevaluate the current CEO.

As long as WN keeps growing passenger counts faster than the competition while at the same time being more profitable than the same competition, that ain't likely to happen.

Its funny how when its come to labour and hiring, some people suddenly forget its a free market. Employees are not slaves, they can work or not work on their free will. Employers are free to sack them of course, and they often did, espeically during a downturn. Wages and salary ate driven by demand and supply. When supply falls short but prices do not increase, shit like this happens.

bob75013 wrote:

KarlB737 wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

Company stresses duty of mechanics, inspectors to get to work. Carrier warns employees could be fired for unexcused absences

There seems to have been a string of issues that have surfaced in the last few years which have sparked FAA action. Add a unsettled contract with mechanics. As always this always has to point to the desk where the buck stops. If the company fires mechanics guess what - they will have even fewer mechanics. At some point I expect the Southwest Board of Directors will have to decided whether to reevaluate the current CEO.

As long as WN keeps growing passenger counts faster than the competition while at the same time being more profitable than the same competition, that ain't likely to happen.

WN isn't growing passenger counts faster than the competition any longer...sort of middle of the pack.

yoy FY2018
UA 6.9%
B6 5.3%
AS 4.1%
WN 3.6%
DL 3.3%
HA 2.8%
AA 2.1%

Clearly WN is a profitable, safe and stable airline but they are not particularly innovative any longer. While WNs CEO isn't bad he's also not particularly remarkable either...in other words bleh.

United1 wrote:

bob75013 wrote:

KarlB737 wrote:

There seems to have been a string of issues that have surfaced in the last few years which have sparked FAA action. Add a unsettled contract with mechanics. As always this always has to point to the desk where the buck stops. If the company fires mechanics guess what - they will have even fewer mechanics. At some point I expect the Southwest Board of Directors will have to decided whether to reevaluate the current CEO.

As long as WN keeps growing passenger counts faster than the competition while at the same time being more profitable than the same competition, that ain't likely to happen.

WN isn't growing passenger counts faster than the competition any longer...sort of middle of the pack.

yoy FY2018
UA 6.9%
B6 5.3%
AS 4.1%
WN 3.6%
DL 3.3%
HA 2.8%
AA 2.1%

Clearly WN is a profitable, safe and stable airline but they are not particularly innovative any longer. While WNs CEO isn't bad he's also not particularly remarkable either...in other words bleh.

Interesting that you posted percentages rather than passenger counts. Will you provide the change in the number of passenger year to year?

The mechanics felt emboldened to write up planes after a CBS new report sez a CBS news report I just watched. This is straight up what we saw with Allegiant and the same national network with a leftist bent to push it. Off shore as much as you can Southwest. I'm all for American jobs but I hate union tactics.

TheOldDude wrote:

United1 wrote:

bob75013 wrote:

As long as WN keeps growing passenger counts faster than the competition while at the same time being more profitable than the same competition, that ain't likely to happen.

WN isn't growing passenger counts faster than the competition any longer...sort of middle of the pack.

yoy FY2018
UA 6.9%
B6 5.3%
AS 4.1%
WN 3.6%
DL 3.3%
HA 2.8%
AA 2.1%

Clearly WN is a profitable, safe and stable airline but they are not particularly innovative any longer. While WNs CEO isn't bad he's also not particularly remarkable either...in other words bleh.

Interesting that you posted percentages rather than passenger counts. Will you provide the change in the number of passenger year to year?

Percentages are usually the best way to compare companies of various sizes to each other. Raw numbers compared to each other really just create apples to oranges comparisons. But here you go...

UA +10.3 million
DL +6.1 million
WN +4.6 million
AA +4.1 million
B6 +2.1 million
AS +1.8 million
HA +0.3 million

Not true at all

I tend to take the business side in labor disputes, but six years without a contract and playing this kind of hardball by management is a disgrace. Management needs to take care of their employees, not abuse them. Clearly SWA management does not understand what the term 'management' means. I hope the union finds a way to get a fair deal here.

StuckinCMHland wrote:

I tend to take the business side in labor disputes, but six years without a contract and playing this kind of hardball by management is a disgrace. Management needs to take care of their employees, not abuse them. Clearly SWA management does not understand what the term 'management' means. I hope the union finds a way to get a fair deal here.

Well put. Southwest usually has pretty good management though. They would not take on the mechanics unless they thought they could get away with it.

I guess they have- for 6 years and counting.

What is preventing Southwest mechanics from striking?

kiowa wrote:

What is preventing Southwest mechanics from striking?

It’s against the law for railroad or airline employees to strike.

Honest question, how does stock figure into this? I am wondering if the employees are investing in their own company and getting shares, does this play into the consideration of what their "overall" income from the airline is?
I am not a big investor, but looking at stock prices the last six years SW stock has risen from 11.7 to 57.67. If an employee invested, they did great.

It’s not against the law, but it’s a long process to be able to strike, it’s against the law to wildcat strike.

Here is a simplified explanation of Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act.

http://www.pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/referen ... ified.html

Boof02671 wrote:

It’s not against the law, but it’s a long process to be able to strike, it’s against the law to wildcat strike.

Here is a simplified explanation of Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act.

http://www.pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/referen ... ified.html

6 years should be adequate time for a "long process"

kiowa wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

It’s not against the law, but it’s a long process to be able to strike, it’s against the law to wildcat strike.

Here is a simplified explanation of Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act.

http://www.pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/referen ... ified.html

6 years should be adequate time for a "long process"

That’s up to the National Mediation Board, AMFA did not ask for an impasse, nor a 30 day cooling off period, nor did they take a strike vote during the vote for the failed agreement

WaywardMemphian wrote:

The mechanics felt emboldened to write up planes after a CBS new report sez a CBS news report I just watched.

Courtesy: CBS News - Video mentioned above included at link.

Southwest Airlines Faces An "Operational Emergency"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/southwest-airlines-faces-an-operational-emergency/

Boof02671 wrote:

kiowa wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

It’s not against the law, but it’s a long process to be able to strike, it’s against the law to wildcat strike.

Here is a simplified explanation of Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act.

http://www.pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/referen ... ified.html

6 years should be adequate time for a "long process"

That’s up to the National Mediation Board, AMFA did not ask for an impasse, nor a 30 day cooling off period, nor did they take a strike vote during the vote for the failed agreement

Is not going for mediation a case of incompetent union leadership?
Is it a case that they didn't want to 'rock the boat' in some good times for the company?
Is it that the union is so scared of management they didn't want to push things too far?

It is a depressing situation, sad for the people who work at SWA, and the customers who fly it.

StuckinCMHland wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

kiowa wrote:

6 years should be adequate time for a "long process"

That’s up to the National Mediation Board, AMFA did not ask for an impasse, nor a 30 day cooling off period, nor did they take a strike vote during the vote for the failed agreement

Is not going for mediation a case of incompetent union leadership?
Is it a case that they didn't want to 'rock the boat' in some good times for the company?
Is it that the union is so scared of management they didn't want to push things too far?

It is a depressing situation, sad for the people who work at SWA, and the customers who fly it.

Most if not all airline negotiations end up in mediation.

This is really getting ugly. The union and company fighting in the news with press releases is a bad look for the folksy little airline that LUV’s its employees. This is going to be a blister of contempt for long after this is settled. I suspect the company will take a few hostages by firing some technicians in the next couple of weeks. This shot will be to warn the others. They will get their jobs back in negotiations but it’s going to sour the relationship going forward.

More information from the union

https://medium.com/@AMFANational/the-tr ... 51afd34a4e

Boof02671 wrote:

More information from the union

https://medium.com/@AMFANational/the-tr ... 51afd34a4e

Interesting, the article says that sick levels are not higher than normal.

And yet management was quick to praise the tech ops folks after flight 1380 for getting the fan blade inspections done in record time. Nothing has changed on the labor side of the fence, those folks are showing up to the job they're tasked with.

mcdu wrote:

This is really getting ugly. The union and company fighting in the news with press releases is a bad look for the folksy little airline that LUV’s its employees. This is going to be a blister of contempt for long after this is settled. I suspect the company will take a few hostages by firing some technicians in the next couple of weeks. This shot will be to warn the others. They will get their jobs back in negotiations but it’s going to sour the relationship going forward.

Folksy little airline? Is it really that dramatic?

PlanesNTrains wrote:

mcdu wrote:

This is really getting ugly. The union and company fighting in the news with press releases is a bad look for the folksy little airline that LUV’s its employees. This is going to be a blister of contempt for long after this is settled. I suspect the company will take a few hostages by firing some technicians in the next couple of weeks. This shot will be to warn the others. They will get their jobs back in negotiations but it’s going to sour the relationship going forward.

Folksy little airline? Is it really that dramatic?

Isn’t that the image WN portrays in the media and advertising?

mcdu wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

mcdu wrote:

This is really getting ugly. The union and company fighting in the news with press releases is a bad look for the folksy little airline that LUV’s its employees. This is going to be a blister of contempt for long after this is settled. I suspect the company will take a few hostages by firing some technicians in the next couple of weeks. This shot will be to warn the others. They will get their jobs back in negotiations but it’s going to sour the relationship going forward.

Folksy little airline? Is it really that dramatic?

Isn’t that the image WN portrays in the media and advertising?

Not really. I see many images of their employees doing their jobs, touring their value, etc. But your filter might be different.

Another article

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... -emergency

jetmatt777 wrote:

kiowa wrote:

What is preventing Southwest mechanics from striking?

It’s against the law for railroad or airline employees to strike.

As evidenced by he fact that no airline employee group has ever gone on strike.

Completely false. Please stop commenting on thing you don't understand.

By Lewis Lazare – Reporter, Chicago Business Journal
8 hours agoRelations between mechanics and Southwest Airlines look to be growing more strained by the hour.

According to sources close to developments, the more than 2,400 mechanics who work full-time for the low-fare carrier and who are responsible for ensuring planes are properly maintained and safe to fly are increasingly getting shut out of overtime maintenance work that had been part of their regular work routine.

This comes despite reports that Southwest is experiencing a larger-than-usual number of planes out of service due to maintenance issues.

Per sources inside the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) to which Southwest mechanics belong, fewer than a handful of mechanics were assigned overtime maintenance work on Thursday, despite large numbers of mechanics making themselves available for overtime during what the airline has declared is a state of operational emergency.

A clause in the memo declaring an operational emergency that was sent to mechanics in Houston, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Orlando last Friday and to Dallas-based mechanics on Tuesday said that any failure to comply with mandated overtime could be considered insubordination and could result in termination. The Chicago Business Journal obtained a copy of Southwest’s declaration of operational emergency.

Per sources, 51 of the 335 mechanics based in Phoenix signed up for overtime on Thursday, but only two were assigned overtime as of Thursday afternoon.
Of the 869 mechanics based in Dallas, 148 signed up for overtime and zero were called.
In Orlando, where 167 Southwest mechanics are based, 33 signed up for overtime on Thursday and zero were called.
In Chicago, where 229 mechanics are based, 52 signed up for overtime and two were called.

The speculation among AMFA mechanics sources at Southwest is that the carrier is directing planes in need of maintenance work to airports where third-party mechanics can work on those planes rather than staff mechanics.
A Southwest spokesperson did not immediately respond to an inquiry about why so few mechanics are doing overtime work despite the mandate in the operational emergency memo.

Meanwhile Southwest mechanics continue to insist they have been denied access to an airline intranet site where they can see what planes are out of service due to mechanical problems and the planes’ status.

A Southwest spokeswoman asserted earlier this week that the airline continues to provide mechanics the tools they need to do their jobs, but she didn't specifically answer whether mechanics can access the intranet site in question.

Southwest mechanics have been trying to get a new contract with the airline for well over six years. Contract negotiations were complicated in recent weeks by management’s putting a third-party international maintenance vendor proposal on the bargaining table — a move to which Southwest staff mechanics are opposed.

The next contract bargaining session isn’t scheduled until next month.

It’s gettin’ ugly.

They had an agreement previously that ended up not passing. Do we know what the hangup on that one was? Was it the outsourcing?

They didn’t ask for outsourcing in the failed TA. It was money and scope.

WN already outsources more maintenance than any other US based airline.

Boof02671 wrote:

They didn’t ask for outsourcing in the failed TA. It was money and scope.

WN already outsources more maintenance than any other US based airline.

SCOPE is outsourcing.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

mcdu wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Folksy little airline? Is it really that dramatic?

Isn’t that the image WN portrays in the media and advertising?

Not really. I see many images of their employees doing their jobs, touring their value, etc. But your filter might be different.

Apparently I am not the only one that has the opinion that WN paints itself as the folksy airline with nothing but LUV for its employees.

Dan Reed from Forbes wrote and article today about this very issue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2019/02/21/all-grown-up-as-it-approaches-50-southwest-is-dealing-with-mature-airlines-kinds-of-problems/#4d46bcb17a7e

mcdu wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

They didn’t ask for outsourcing in the failed TA. It was money and scope.

WN already outsources more maintenance than any other US based airline.

SCOPE is outsourcing.

The union wanted to bring work in, that’s the scope.

I know what I’m talking about I was a rep for the machinist union and have been on several negotiating committees in the airlines.

Boof02671 wrote:

mcdu wrote:

Boof02671 wrote:

They didn’t ask for outsourcing in the failed TA. It was money and scope.

WN already outsources more maintenance than any other US based airline.

SCOPE is outsourcing.

The union wanted to bring work in, that’s the scope.

I know what I’m talking about I was a rep for the machinist union and have been on several negotiating committees in the airlines.

Bringing work in versus outsourcing is SCOPE. Why is this so hard?

mcdu wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

mcdu wrote:

Isn’t that the image WN portrays in the media and advertising?

Not really. I see many images of their employees doing their jobs, touring their value, etc. But your filter might be different.

Apparently I am not the only one that has the opinion that WN paints itself as the folksy airline with nothing but LUV for its employees.

Dan Reed from Forbes wrote and article today about this very issue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2019/02/21/all-grown-up-as-it-approaches-50-southwest-is-dealing-with-mature-airlines-kinds-of-problems/#4d46bcb17a7e

That’s wonderful but we’re sorta talking about something else in this thread. Why you feel the need to get into their advertising is beyond me (or is it?).

PlanesNTrains wrote:

mcdu wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Not really. I see many images of their employees doing their jobs, touring their value, etc. But your filter might be different.

Apparently I am not the only one that has the opinion that WN paints itself as the folksy airline with nothing but LUV for its employees.

Dan Reed from Forbes wrote and article today about this very issue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2019/02/21/all-grown-up-as-it-approaches-50-southwest-is-dealing-with-mature-airlines-kinds-of-problems/#4d46bcb17a7e

That’s wonderful but we’re sorta talking about something else in this thread. Why you feel the need to get into their advertising is beyond me (or is it?).

Actually it is very relevant. LUV has been exposed as a being very different at their core versus the personna they attempt to portray in the media.

The mechanics are definitely not feeling the LUV now are they?

mcdu wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

mcdu wrote:

Apparently I am not the only one that has the opinion that WN paints itself as the folksy airline with nothing but LUV for its employees.

Dan Reed from Forbes wrote and article today about this very issue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielreed/2019/02/21/all-grown-up-as-it-approaches-50-southwest-is-dealing-with-mature-airlines-kinds-of-problems/#4d46bcb17a7e

That’s wonderful but we’re sorta talking about something else in this thread. Why you feel the need to get into their advertising is beyond me (or is it?).

Actually it is very relevant. LUV has been exposed as a being very different at their core versus the personna they attempt to portray in the media.

What a weird spin on this thread. Knowing people who work there and have worked there, they love(d) their job, but people are going to focus on what they want to I guess.

Anyhow, is this thread about being folksy or the contract negotiations?