When will the Boeing 737NG and A320CEO production cease

Dutchy · Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 pm

I noticed that KLM was still expecting delivery of the Boeing 737NG in 2022, so when is the producing going to end for the Next Generation? And the same for the A320? Couldn't find it online.

jghealey · Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:28 pm

Dutchy wrote:
I noticed that KLM was still expecting delivery of the Boeing 737NG in 2022, so when is the producing going to end for the Next Generation? And the same for the A320? Couldn't find it online.

Production of the A320ceo and 737NG will most likely end when demand for them wanes. As long as they have orders, they'll keep producing them, though I'm sure that Airbus/Boeing would rather customers buy the neo/MAX families and they'll probably push for this.

flee · Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:04 pm

I think that they are still in production because of problems with the LEAP and GTF. Airlines are ordering the old models to overcome the delivery shortfalls. WIth CFM and PW slowly getting back on target this year, it will only be a matter of time before orders dry up and production is wound down.

However, Boeing has military orders too - so 737 production may still continue until the military orders have been fulfilled.

BravoOne · Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:15 pm

I heard that the NG would cease production at the end of March. The source was reliable, but don't bet your last dollar on it.

Dominion301 · Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:07 pm

BravoOne wrote:
I heard that the NG would cease production at the end of March. The source was reliable, but don't bet your last dollar on it.

March of what year?

There was a thread just a week or two ago about outstanding NG orders and there's something like 150 of them still to go.

yonikasz · Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:10 pm

So will it kinda happen like the passenger version of the 767? Over time the 787 Dreamliners took over, and people stopped ordering the passenger 767 so Boeing stopped it.

BoeingGuy · Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:46 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I heard that the NG would cease production at the end of March. The source was reliable, but don't bet your last dollar on it.

March of what year?

There was a thread just a week or two ago about outstanding NG orders and there's something like 150 of them still to go.

March this year sounds about right. I saw it recently on a presentation too. I remember it was the earlier part of this year.

BoeingGuy · Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:47 pm

jghealey wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I noticed that KLM was still expecting delivery of the Boeing 737NG in 2022, so when is the producing going to end for the Next Generation? And the same for the A320? Couldn't find it online.

Production of the A320ceo and 737NG will most likely end when demand for them wanes. As long as they have orders, they'll keep producing them, though I'm sure that Airbus/Boeing would rather customers buy the neo/MAX families and they'll probably push for this.

Not correct. The 737NG is planned to stop production this year.

zuckie13 · Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:20 pm

There were 88 Unfilled 737NG orders at the end of 2018. I imagine they would not expect many (if nay new orders) so when those are done, that's probably it. Based on the rate from last year, it makes sense they could be done around end of March or so if they want to be.

sciing · Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I heard that the NG would cease production at the end of March. The source was reliable, but don't bet your last dollar on it.

March of what year?

There was a thread just a week or two ago about outstanding NG orders and there's something like 150 of them still to go.

150? When was it?
Here the data still from end of 2018.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries
737-700C 2
737-800 32
737-800A 29
737-900ER 22
BBJ 1
BBJ2 2

sciing · Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:29 pm

Dutchy wrote:
I noticed that KLM was still expecting delivery of the Boeing 737NG in 2022, so when is the producing going to end for the Next Generation? And the same for the A320? Couldn't find it online.

A320ceos will be build until 2022, at least the A321ceos for Delta.

scbriml · Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:31 pm

On the Airbus side, as at the end of January they had the following outstanding ceo orders:

A319 - 10
A320 - 66
A321 - 81

Dutchy · Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:40 pm

sciing wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I noticed that KLM was still expecting delivery of the Boeing 737NG in 2022, so when is the producing going to end for the Next Generation? And the same for the A320? Couldn't find it online.

A320ceos will be build until 2022, at least the A321ceos for Delta.

So KLM can't take delivery of any new 737NG's in 2022? So perhaps some second hand from Transavia? They are set to take delivery of B737Max in 2022 (although they haven't been ordered as of yet).

Dominion301 · Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:03 pm

sciing wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I heard that the NG would cease production at the end of March. The source was reliable, but don't bet your last dollar on it.

March of what year?

There was a thread just a week or two ago about outstanding NG orders and there's something like 150 of them still to go.

150? When was it?
Here the data still from end of 2018.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries
737-700C 2
737-800 32
737-800A 29
737-900ER 22
BBJ 1
BBJ2 2

Ah so it was 88. I was going from memory. Thought the 739 total was bigger than 22.

Either way, isn't 88 a lot in the first 3 months of 2019 with all the MAXes mixed in and aren't most of those 739s for DL?

scbriml · Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:06 pm

sciing wrote:
A320ceos will be build until 2022, at least the A321ceos for Delta.

I'm having a hard time believing the entire ceo supply chain will be kept running until 2022. If DL is wanting to stretch delivery out that much, I would imagine Airbus will build them soonest and just store them until delivery.

DBCoop3r · Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:13 pm

Is Boeing building the P-8 frames on order and then storing them? Several countries have dozens of P-8s on order (USAF, RAF, RAAF, India, Norway, etc.) with deliveries several years into the future. More orders are inevitable for the P-8 so I wonder if Boeing is going to build extra 737NG frames in anticipation.

Polot · Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:19 pm

DBCoop3r wrote:
Is Boeing building the P-8 frames on order and then storing them? Several countries have dozens of P-8s on order (USAF, RAF, RAAF, India, Norway, etc.) with deliveries several years into the future. More orders are inevitable for the P-8 so I wonder if Boeing is going to build extra 737NG frames in anticipation.

Boeing will continue to make the P-8 on a separate line. It is the commercial 737NG that will be phased out. The P-8 frame is a strengthened/bespoke version of the commercial plane’s, it is not just a 737NG with military hardware on board.

Momo1435 · Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:
sciing wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I noticed that KLM was still expecting delivery of the Boeing 737NG in 2022, so when is the producing going to end for the Next Generation? And the same for the A320? Couldn't find it online.

A320ceos will be build until 2022, at least the A321ceos for Delta.

So KLM can't take delivery of any new 737NG's in 2022? So perhaps some second hand from Transavia? They are set to take delivery of B737Max in 2022 (although they haven't been ordered as of yet).

KLM will this year take delivery of 4 737-800, nothing has been confirmed beyond these 4 deliveries.

nikeherc · Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:35 pm

When they have delivered all that have been ordered.

Momo1435 · Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:43 pm

Looking a bit closer at the 737 numbers.

from the earlier post only the 737NGs
737-700C 2
737-800 32
737-900ER 22
BBJ 1
BBJ2 2

total: 59

January 2019 737NG deliveries: 13 (unconfirmed)
Currently on flightline: 12

remaining: 34

Tomorrow Boeing will post the January deliveries so we will know the exact numbers at this moment. But if it is just 34 to be built with around 12 to 13 deliveries per month we can calculate that the production will end in April if they won't slow the NG production down gradually. If it turns out to be March they will have to increase the production for NG these next 2 month, I don't see that happening.

But it's should be obvious that 2019 will the last year of the NG production, with the P-8 production going on for as long as necessary.

The last commercial 737NG order was in August 2017, 4 737-900 for Alaska.

VV · Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:50 pm

The intent has always been to have a short transition between NY and MAX. Always.

Stitch · Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:05 pm

DBCoop3r wrote:
Is Boeing building the P-8 frames on order and then storing them? Several countries have dozens of P-8s on order (USAF, RAF, RAAF, India, Norway, etc.) with deliveries several years into the future. More orders are inevitable for the P-8 so I wonder if Boeing is going to build extra 737NG frames in anticipation.

As noted, the P-8 is built on a separate line in the building adjacent to the main 737 FALs. This building also handles building up the 737's wings and wing spars.

Oliver2020 · Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:20 pm

scbriml wrote:
sciing wrote:
A320ceos will be build until 2022, at least the A321ceos for Delta.

I'm having a hard time believing the entire ceo supply chain will be kept running until 2022. If DL is wanting to stretch delivery out that much, I would imagine Airbus will build them soonest and just store them until delivery.

According to Deltas sec filing the deliveries for the a321ceo were 2019-32, 2020-27, 2021-3

Boof02671 · Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:57 pm

They can also put in temporary cabin fuel tanks. HA does this with their 717s as they were flown to MIA for overhaul.

sciing · Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:16 pm

Oliver2020 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
sciing wrote:
A320ceos will be build until 2022, at least the A321ceos for Delta.

I'm having a hard time believing the entire ceo supply chain will be kept running until 2022. If DL is wanting to stretch delivery out that much, I would imagine Airbus will build them soonest and just store them until delivery.

According to Deltas sec filing the deliveries for the a321ceo were 2019-32, 2020-27, 2021-3

You are right I mixed up the years.

juliuswong · Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:13 am

scbriml wrote:
On the Airbus side, as at the end of January they had the following outstanding ceo orders:

A319 - 10
A320 - 66
A321 - 81

To be honest, after removing those dubious deals/bankrupt airlines, we are down to 120 in total. However, until the client or Airbus officially cancels them, currently we still have 157 outstanding.

flyingclrs727 · Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:16 am

The 737NG is the basis of several military variants like P-8 that are unlikely to to be switched to the 737Max. As long as the military programs are still in production, it will still be possible for Boeing to offer civilian 737NG's.

BoeingGuy · Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:25 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
The 737NG is the basis of several military variants like P-8 that are unlikely to to be switched to the 737Max. As long as the military programs are still in production, it will still be possible for Boeing to offer civilian 737NG's.

No it won’t. It’s been stated several times on this thread. The last 737NG will be delivered in a few months.

WayexTDI · Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:03 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The 737NG is the basis of several military variants like P-8 that are unlikely to to be switched to the 737Max. As long as the military programs are still in production, it will still be possible for Boeing to offer civilian 737NG's.

No it won’t. It’s been stated several times on this thread. The last 737NG will be delivered in a few months.

So, how will Boeing deliver the P-8's? Special production runs? Or are they different enough to have their own production line and supply chain?

Boof02671 · Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:12 am

Stitch wrote:
DBCoop3r wrote:
Is Boeing building the P-8 frames on order and then storing them? Several countries have dozens of P-8s on order (USAF, RAF, RAAF, India, Norway, etc.) with deliveries several years into the future. More orders are inevitable for the P-8 so I wonder if Boeing is going to build extra 737NG frames in anticipation.

As noted, the P-8 is built on a separate line in the building adjacent to the main 737 FALs. This building also handles building up the 737's wings and wing spars.

There is your answer.

QuarkFly · Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:42 am

I also thought that this year would be the last for A320neo production, 2020 at the latest. Very little point of low-rate production of an oddball model for years to come. It's possible to produce some end of model-type aircraft and store them for up to a year...like Boeing has done with 747-8 models.

If any CEO's are scheduled for delivery in a few years...they are likely just waiting in the backlog to be upgraded to NEO's or traded in for another model or incentives.

BoeingGuy · Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:41 am

WayexTDI wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The 737NG is the basis of several military variants like P-8 that are unlikely to to be switched to the 737Max. As long as the military programs are still in production, it will still be possible for Boeing to offer civilian 737NG's.

No it won’t. It’s been stated several times on this thread. The last 737NG will be delivered in a few months.

So, how will Boeing deliver the P-8's? Special production runs? Or are they different enough to have their own production line and supply chain?

That was also stated in this thread. The P-8 is on a separate production line.

sciing · Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:53 am

QuarkFly wrote:
I also thought that this year would be the last for A320neo production, 2020 at the latest. Very little point of low-rate production of an oddball model for years to come. It's possible to produce some end of model-type aircraft and store them for up to a year

Unlikely, both NG and CEO are build on the same line as MAX and NEO and the shared production is running since years now. I see no problem to go on for years beside a missing backlog.
Looking for example on the Delta A321 order there is no sign for conversion. The will get 2-3 per month for the next 2 years. No need to store something.
I guess Boeing or better CFM would prever a much shallower MAX ramp but the NG NG backlog is drying out too fast.

speedbird52 · Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:44 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The 737NG is the basis of several military variants like P-8 that are unlikely to to be switched to the 737Max. As long as the military programs are still in production, it will still be possible for Boeing to offer civilian 737NG's.

No it won’t. It’s been stated several times on this thread. The last 737NG will be delivered in a few months.

I really want to go see this. One day there will be a time where we look at NGs the same way people look at MD80s now. I missed the last 747-8i delivery and the last US flight of a 747 classic and both broke my heart. I don't want to miss anything else. How much advance notice do you think we will get of this?

JibberJim · Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:57 am

luv2cattlecall wrote:
Do you have more info about this? I'm really confused as to how a new FR delivery can impact the price of a game console made in Asia

And has a tariff of 0% anyway.

KICT · Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:01 am

Who has the 2 737-700 combi on order? US Navy?

AirbusA6 · Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:13 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
The 737NG is the basis of several military variants like P-8 that are unlikely to to be switched to the 737Max. As long as the military programs are still in production, it will still be possible for Boeing to offer civilian 737NG's.

No it won’t. It’s been stated several times on this thread. The last 737NG will be delivered in a few months.

I really want to go see this. One day there will be a time where we look at NGs the same way people look at MD80s now. I missed the last 747-8i delivery and the last US flight of a 747 classic and both broke my heart. I don't want to miss anything else. How much advance notice do you think we will get of this?

Will we? It's not as if the Maxes will be much different from the NGs externally, and inside they'll be even more similar. I find it hard to get excited by the much different 737 Classics, it's only the Jurassics which to me shout out something different, and historic

konrad · Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:38 pm

A while ago Sky Europe took their 73G non-stop to BTS.

afterburner · Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:22 pm

sciing wrote:
737-800 32
737-800A 29

What is the difference between -800 and -800A?

Polot · Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:37 pm

afterburner wrote:
sciing wrote:
737-800 32
737-800A 29

What is the difference between -800 and -800A?

The -800A is the P-8.

afterburner · Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:27 pm

Polot wrote:
afterburner wrote:
sciing wrote:
737-800 32
737-800A 29

What is the difference between -800 and -800A?

The -800A is the P-8.

Ah! Thank you.

SEPilot · Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:14 pm

luv2cattlecall wrote:
DBCoop3r wrote:
alancostello wrote:

Ryanair usually deliver their 737s nonstop from Seattle to Dublin. A 737 with no passengers, bags, or cargo, but full fuel tanks can do a pretty long ride. As an example PAE-DUB is 4,513 mi, while PAE-AMS is only 4,859 mi.

In this case, if they had to stop, it would likely be in an airport the airline already serves (YYZ for KLM as an example), or an airport of convenience along the route, KEF in Iceland being the most logical on that route, or BGR in Maine if they don't want to have to deal with having to land in Canada.

Or course new plane deliveries are often not "empty" per se. Due to an... interesting... trade loophole both Airbus and Boeing offer a little perk service to customers overseas where the customer (or someone in the Customer's ear) can request certain high value items that would otherwise be cost prohibitive or unavailable due to high tariffs, taxes, and/or regulations in said delivery country. I'm sure Ryanair takes full advantage of this service. I suggest maybe looking up the price drop of say a XBox in Ireland every time a new 737 is delivered to FR.

Thanks Stitch and Polot RE: the P-8 question.

Do you have more info about this? I'm really confused as to how a new FR delivery can impact the price of a game console made in Asia

No VAT tax. When my brother, who was working in London at the time, invited my wife and me to visit him he had me bring him a Canon camera and lenses. It was several hundred dollars cheaper than he could get in England. But if Ryanair personnel try and sell the stuff I would think they could get in trouble.

jghealey · Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:57 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
jghealey wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I noticed that KLM was still expecting delivery of the Boeing 737NG in 2022, so when is the producing going to end for the Next Generation? And the same for the A320? Couldn't find it online.

Production of the A320ceo and 737NG will most likely end when demand for them wanes. As long as they have orders, they'll keep producing them, though I'm sure that Airbus/Boeing would rather customers buy the neo/MAX families and they'll probably push for this.

Not correct. The 737NG is planned to stop production this year.

It may be stopping this year - but that's because there aren't enough orders to justify keeping the production line open.

BoeingGuy · Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:47 pm

jghealey wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
jghealey wrote:
Production of the A320ceo and 737NG will most likely end when demand for them wanes. As long as they have orders, they'll keep producing them, though I'm sure that Airbus/Boeing would rather customers buy the neo/MAX families and they'll probably push for this.

Not correct. The 737NG is planned to stop production this year.

It may be stopping this year - but that's because there aren't enough orders to justify keeping the production line open.

No. It IS stopping this year because Boeing made a decision to only offer the MAX and no longer offer the NG. Also, they are built on the same production line. You guys are guessing but it’s not correct information.

mjoelnir · Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:09 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
jghealey wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Not correct. The 737NG is planned to stop production this year.

It may be stopping this year - but that's because there aren't enough orders to justify keeping the production line open.

No. It IS stopping this year because Boeing made a decision to only offer the MAX and no longer offer the NG. Also, they are built on the same production line. You guys are guessing but it’s not correct information.

So, as you seem to possess the right information, when will the last P8 be produced, no production next year?

Momo1435 · Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:05 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
jghealey wrote:
It may be stopping this year - but that's because there aren't enough orders to justify keeping the production line open.

No. It IS stopping this year because Boeing made a decision to only offer the MAX and no longer offer the NG. Also, they are built on the same production line. You guys are guessing but it’s not correct information.

So, as you seem to possess the right information, when will the last P8 be produced, no production next year?

The P-8 will continue to be produced long after the last civil NG is delivered later this year.

See this press release for the P-8 orders placed 2 months ago, from this order the 1st P-8 for Norway will be delivered in 2021.
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-01-28 ... m-U-S-Navy

Boeing keeps on building the P-8 and is still booking new orders. The last civil 737NG order is already a couple years old.

mjoelnir · Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:08 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

No. It IS stopping this year because Boeing made a decision to only offer the MAX and no longer offer the NG. Also, they are built on the same production line. You guys are guessing but it’s not correct information.

So, as you seem to possess the right information, when will the last P8 be produced, no production next year?

The P-8 will continue to be produced long after the last civil NG is delivered later this year.

See this press release for the P-8 orders placed 2 months ago, from this order the 1st P-8 for Norway will be delivered in 2021.
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-01-28 ... m-U-S-Navy

Boeing keeps on building the P-8 and is still booking new orders. The last civil 737NG order is already a couple years old.

I do know that and that is why saying that 737NG production will cease this year is just plain stupid.

kanban · Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:33 pm

To make it simple, commercial airline 737NG's will end this year, Military 737 derivitives will continue as long as the Government keeps ordering them.

danipawa · Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:43 pm

WoodysAeroimag: there are less than 30 NG's left to assemble. The last one is scheduled for May 3rd R/O out of final assembly.

ikolkyo · Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:47 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

So, as you seem to possess the right information, when will the last P8 be produced, no production next year?

The P-8 will continue to be produced long after the last civil NG is delivered later this year.

See this press release for the P-8 orders placed 2 months ago, from this order the 1st P-8 for Norway will be delivered in 2021.
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-01-28 ... m-U-S-Navy

Boeing keeps on building the P-8 and is still booking new orders. The last civil 737NG order is already a couple years old.

I do know that and that is why saying that 737NG production will cease this year is just plain stupid.

Don’t be dumb man, P-8 is a military derivative that all it shares with the NG is the basic fuselage and main wing portion. Otherwise it’s a completely different aircraft, even the engines have more powerful generators. When people refer to 737NG production they are clearly talking about civil aircraft. Come on now.

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