jbs2886
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:17 am

gsg013 wrote:
AsiaTravel wrote:
In an interview in today's Le Journal du Dimanche, Anne Rigail revealed that Air France will place an order at Le Bourget. No additional details given.

Also in the interview:

- 125 M € to refurb COI 77W.

7858264768512[/url]


$125 mm to refurm a 777-300ER? Is this possible? It seems very expensive...


It’s not a single 777 being refurbished lol
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:46 am

jbs2886 wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
AsiaTravel wrote:
In an interview in today's Le Journal du Dimanche, Anne Rigail revealed that Air France will place an order at Le Bourget. No additional details given.

Also in the interview:

- 125 M € to refurb COI 77W.

7858264768512[/url]


$125 mm to refurm a 777-300ER? Is this possible? It seems very expensive...


It’s not a single 777 being refurbished lol


According to planespotters, there are 12 COI 77W at AF. So $11-12 million per frame. I believe the A332 recently cost $10 million per frame.
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:56 am

Hop! and its predecessors used to have a fleet of pretty much every small jet and prop, CR1,CR2,CR7,CRJ,F-100,E90,E95,ATR, then AF has all the Airbus narrowbodies, is it likely that all of these can be replaced by just A2 and A321 ?
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:30 am

Okcflyer wrote:
Outside of the parent company, there is no part of the A220 that’s native to Europe or France.


You might want to check your 'facts' on that one! :yes:
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:44 am

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Stupid question, but any chance of a new A380 order if the price is lowered drastically?



Yeah and some new Airbus A340's ... :bigthumbsup: I wish ... :yes:
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:03 am

Okcflyer wrote:
Outside of the parent company, there is no part of the A220 that’s native to Europe or France.


Google "C-Series Wings" .... lets us know what you find
 
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keesje
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am

AsiaTravel wrote:
AF doesn't need an additional WB order for now. 21 A359 + 11 789 is enough to cover 25 772 and 2(+4 Joon) A343.

My bet is on narrow-body, something like:

15 A220-100
30 A220-300

50 A320NEO
25 A321NEO
15 A321LR (will free up A332 from some African routes, increasing overhaul long-haul capacity).

Of course it might be less since some A320 are quite recent. but that would be close to what they need.


Yes something like that sees likely. AF (&AF) are few of the bigger airlines that haven't committed to a single NEO, MAX or A220 over the last 8 years. If you add up all the NB's under the different brands it's a significant aging fleet.
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:17 am

As far as I know, this will be the group's narrowbody order for their mainline carriers Air France, KLM and Transavia.

Ofcourse, there are quite some rumours about this order, but most often I hear:

* Air France --> A320neo family order (no mention of A220)
* Transavia --> B737MAX-order
* KLM --> and here it gets interesting as I'm hearing more often the A320neo-family than B737MAX...

Fleet renewal for the regional carriers (Air France HOP and KLM Cityhopper) is not an issue now with both carriers taking delivery of new E-jets.

Cheers! :wave:
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:28 am

LifelinerOne wrote:
As far as I know, this will be the group's narrowbody order for their mainline carriers Air France, KLM and Transavia.

Ofcourse, there are quite some rumours about this order, but most often I hear:

* Air France --> A320neo family order (no mention of A220)
* Transavia --> B737MAX-order
* KLM --> and here it gets interesting as I'm hearing more often the A320neo-family than B737MAX...

Fleet renewal for the regional carriers (Air France HOP and KLM Cityhopper) is not an issue now with both carriers taking delivery of new E-jets.

Cheers! :wave:

Other rumors say KL is looking at the MAX-9 and MAX-10... ;)

Agree that this will most likely be just a narrawbody order. But perhaps we'll see some 787 and or A350 options being converted. If KL indeed isn't getting the A350 they will need additional 787s. And if KL is getting A350s, I hope these will be converted to A350-1000s.... But I'm not too optimistic :sigh:
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:36 am

jfk777 wrote:
More 787-9 and hopefully some 777-9, 20 would be nice start to expand and replace the current 777 fleet.

So only aircraft that start with the letter B? :scratchchin:

Naaaa, as others pointed out, this one will be for narrowbodies and I expect a split order for Boeing and Airbus.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:03 am

Most likely A320neo for Air France and 737s for KLM.
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:08 am

frigatebird wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
As far as I know, this will be the group's narrowbody order for their mainline carriers Air France, KLM and Transavia.

Ofcourse, there are quite some rumours about this order, but most often I hear:

* Air France --> A320neo family order (no mention of A220)
* Transavia --> B737MAX-order
* KLM --> and here it gets interesting as I'm hearing more often the A320neo-family than B737MAX...

Fleet renewal for the regional carriers (Air France HOP and KLM Cityhopper) is not an issue now with both carriers taking delivery of new E-jets.

Cheers! :wave:

Other rumors say KL is looking at the MAX-9 and MAX-10... ;)

Agree that this will most likely be just a narrawbody order. But perhaps we'll see some 787 and or A350 options being converted. If KL indeed isn't getting the A350 they will need additional 787s. And if KL is getting A350s, I hope these will be converted to A350-1000s.... But I'm not too optimistic :sigh:


The B737MAX was indeed the preferred choice by KLM. But, since the arrival of Smith it seems the CEO's of KLM and Air France have less influence and that Smith really wants to push a further integration within the Group, including simplified brands and fleets. That's why the Airbus-rumours are getting stronger as it is a number's game.

As for the KLM A350, they still plan on them.

Ah well, let's just wait and see.
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:05 am

LifelinerOne wrote:
The B737MAX was indeed the preferred choice by KLM. But, since the arrival of Smith it seems the CEO's of KLM and Air France have less influence and that Smith really wants to push a further integration within the Group, including simplified brands and fleets. That's why the Airbus-rumours are getting stronger as it is a number's game.

Oh that's bad. I mean, not that the A32xNeo is bad for KL (it wouldn't be), but BS deciding what's good for KLM and what not. Sounds a bit like the IAG or even Lufthansa scenario, little wonder the future of Pieter Elbers as KLM CEO is so uncertain.
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:19 am

Does AF really need to have so many types of aircraft with numerous seat capacities? With today's fleet they have aircraft with 50-72-100-129-144(?)-174-212 seats (HOP+mainline)...

I work for a large LCC and we are constantly delayed across Europe because of airspace restrictions and airport restrictions - especially in summer. I'm expecting that fewer flights on larger aircraft is the only way to go to avoid total chaos and massive delays - so the B737 MAX 10 and A321 should have a bright future in Europe.

I would love the see the A220-100/300 in AF colours but do the aircraft offer capacity that matches AF's needs?
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:45 am

CRJ900 wrote:
I would love the see the A220-100/300 in AF colours but do the aircraft offer capacity that matches AF's needs?


Of course they do.
Do you really think that the good idea for AF will be to replace CRJ/ERJ by a MAX10 or an A321NEO ?

Lots of domestics routes can't handle large aircrafts such as CFR-LYS, BVE-ORY, … and there are many others. Those routes are typically operated by 50/70 seats aircrafts.
There is no way those routes can be upgraded to MAX10/321NEO.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:29 pm

foxxray wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
I would love the see the A220-100/300 in AF colours but do the aircraft offer capacity that matches AF's needs?


Of course they do.
Do you really think that the good idea for AF will be to replace CRJ/ERJ by a MAX10 or an A321NEO ?

Lots of domestics routes can't handle large aircrafts such as CFR-LYS, BVE-ORY, … and there are many others. Those routes are typically operated by 50/70 seats aircrafts.
There is no way those routes can be upgraded to MAX10/321NEO.

But nor can a 50/70 seat RJ be replaced by a 100+ (116 in "typical seating" per Airbus website) seat A221 either. Just because Airbus has a nice new hammer, not everything is a nail.
Certainly the aging AF A319s are an obvious target, but the HOP! fleet? nah.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:42 pm

Boair wrote:
A220 order will make sense, Air France have a large A318 and A319 fleet that is ageing:
Youngest A318 is 12, oldest 15
Youngest A319 is 13, oldest 22

Concur. The A319 replacement order should be first.

This will be interesting.

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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:40 pm

Bricktop wrote:
foxxray wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
I would love the see the A220-100/300 in AF colours but do the aircraft offer capacity that matches AF's needs?


Of course they do.
Do you really think that the good idea for AF will be to replace CRJ/ERJ by a MAX10 or an A321NEO ?

Lots of domestics routes can't handle large aircrafts such as CFR-LYS, BVE-ORY, … and there are many others. Those routes are typically operated by 50/70 seats aircrafts.
There is no way those routes can be upgraded to MAX10/321NEO.

But nor can a 50/70 seat RJ be replaced by a 100+ (116 in "typical seating" per Airbus website) seat A221 either. Just because Airbus has a nice new hammer, not everything is a nail.
Certainly the aging AF A319s are an obvious target, but the HOP! fleet? nah.


HOP has been gradually getting smaller every year that passes by. I personally wouldn’t be surprised to see HOP go entirely A220-100, it’s an efficient plane and the cost savings and simplifying things operationally by having just one fleet type for the regional carrier makes sense.

All other major European carriers have long given up on 50 seat aircraft.

Besides AF has made it quite clear that they aren’t really interested in the regions anymore so it’s not like an A220 will appear at Lannion... Thin routes can easily be outsourced to a regional carrier outside the AF group or just operated as codeshares.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:43 pm

Bricktop wrote:
But nor can a 50/70 seat RJ be replaced by a 100+ (116 in "typical seating" per Airbus website) seat A221 either. Just because Airbus has a nice new hammer, not everything is a nail.
Certainly the aging AF A319s are an obvious target, but the HOP! fleet? nah.


You're right but putting a one daily A221 instead of two daily CRJ7 on CFR/LYS route makes more sense than a MAX10/321NEO.

I am pretty sure the A220 has a place inside AF fleet. On the other hand, I don't see how they will replace 50/70 seats RJ. Maybe subcontracting to an other airline (Chalair ?!).
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:53 pm

Okcflyer wrote:
Outside of the parent company, there is no part of the A220 that’s native to Europe or France. Not the PW (USA) engines. Not the assembly. There is no secondary economic value or jobs. Given this, it doesn’t have a home field advantage that many are assuming. Embraer sits nearly equal with the only major difference being the E2-195 is smaller than the A223.

On the otherhand, a neo order powered by CFM gets a lot of home-country advantage, especially related to jobs and secondary economic return which is the rage for politicians these days.

The narrow body market is remarkably equal on overall performance and less subject to pure fundamental frame size matching. (WB market is more influenced on performance factors).

As such, I’ll be surprised if this is anything but a typical sized neo order.

The last time I checked, France was PART of Europe. Also, unless Northern Ireland has floated west towards North America, the wings are made in the Europe.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:55 pm

frigatebird wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
As far as I know, this will be the group's narrowbody order for their mainline carriers Air France, KLM and Transavia.

Ofcourse, there are quite some rumours about this order, but most often I hear:

* Air France --> A320neo family order (no mention of A220)
* Transavia --> B737MAX-order
* KLM --> and here it gets interesting as I'm hearing more often the A320neo-family than B737MAX...

Fleet renewal for the regional carriers (Air France HOP and KLM Cityhopper) is not an issue now with both carriers taking delivery of new E-jets.

Cheers! :wave:

Other rumors say KL is looking at the MAX-9 and MAX-10... ;)

Agree that this will most likely be just a narrawbody order. But perhaps we'll see some 787 and or A350 options being converted. If KL indeed isn't getting the A350 they will need additional 787s. And if KL is getting A350s, I hope these will be converted to A350-1000s.... But I'm not too optimistic :sigh:

There's always the option that the KLM A350's could get switched with AF's remaining 787 orders too.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:03 pm

Bricktop wrote:
foxxray wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
I would love the see the A220-100/300 in AF colours but do the aircraft offer capacity that matches AF's needs?


Of course they do.
Do you really think that the good idea for AF will be to replace CRJ/ERJ by a MAX10 or an A321NEO ?

Lots of domestics routes can't handle large aircrafts such as CFR-LYS, BVE-ORY, … and there are many others. Those routes are typically operated by 50/70 seats aircrafts.
There is no way those routes can be upgraded to MAX10/321NEO.

But nor can a 50/70 seat RJ be replaced by a 100+ (116 in "typical seating" per Airbus website) seat A221 either. Just because Airbus has a nice new hammer, not everything is a nail.
Certainly the aging AF A319s are an obvious target, but the HOP! fleet? nah.

I was wondering if some kind of consolidation of Hop with KLM Cityhopper would by feasible? CR7's could be replaced by E(2)-175, CRK's by E2-195. And rename it to Air France Cityhopper perhaps :highfive:
AF/KLM group could consist of:
Air France (mainline)
KLM (mainline)
Transavia (LCC, French and Netherlands bases) 737 aircraft only
Cityhopper (regional, French and Netherlands bases) E-jets only.

Not ruling out the A223, it could have a place at AF mainline as A319 replacement. A221 wouldn't really be necessary IMO.
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:10 pm

Breathe wrote:
The last time I checked, France was PART of Europe. Also, unless Northern Ireland has floated west towards North America, the wings are made in the Europe.

I believe Ireland is moving away from North America, albeit a few millimeter yearly. :biggrin:

Breathe wrote:
There's always the option that the KLM A350's could get switched with AF's remaining 787 orders too.

This is a rumor I've been hearing a lot, lately.
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:14 pm

foxxray wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
But nor can a 50/70 seat RJ be replaced by a 100+ (116 in "typical seating" per Airbus website) seat A221 either. Just because Airbus has a nice new hammer, not everything is a nail.
Certainly the aging AF A319s are an obvious target, but the HOP! fleet? nah.


You're right but putting a one daily A221 instead of two daily CRJ7 on CFR/LYS route makes more sense than a MAX10/321NEO.

I am pretty sure the A220 has a place inside AF fleet. On the other hand, I don't see how they will replace 50/70 seats RJ. Maybe subcontracting to an other airline (Chalair ?!).

Agreed Won't be as pretty as Air Baltic or Swiss, but will still be pretty sweet in AF.

And as much as I would love to see an A350 in KL's livery, their B77W fleet is young. Perhaps the B772s but they are not THAT old. They still have a lot of B744s to replace and pretty soon. I am not aware of what they are planning to do there.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:29 pm

Okcflyer wrote:
Outside of the parent company, there is no part of the A220 that’s native to Europe or France.


Not so, at least until Brexit. The wings are manufactured by Bombardier (ex-Shorts) in Belfast.

Beech
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:33 pm

Bricktop wrote:
And as much as I would love to see an A350 in KL's livery, their B77W fleet is young. Perhaps the B772s but they are not THAT old. They still have a lot of B744s to replace and pretty soon. I am not aware of what they are planning to do there.

No, KL's 777's (200 and 300ER) aren't going anywhere until at least the second half of next decade.
As for the 744's, the 6 remaining combi's will be replaced by 787-10s, but about the 5 full pax frames I'm not sure either... Replacing these with 787s or A359s doesn't make sense to me, with AMS capped. Maybe KL will lease some extra 77W's?
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:39 pm

Like many I think that there won't be much change in terms of which manufacturer AF and KLM go with respectively... There is the matter of consolidation but other than that, it wouldn't make that much sense with pilots, training, tech, and mixed fleets...

The Cseries (sorry will always be that name to me) has the advantage of Airbus being able to bundle it and include it in its financing. Not to mention it's the best narrowbody flying experience for customers and not all to inefficient...
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:49 pm

they'll buy some A320Neo, imho
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:21 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
gsg013 wrote:

$125 mm to refurm a 777-300ER? Is this possible? It seems very expensive...


It’s not a single 777 being refurbished lol


According to planespotters, there are 12 COI 77W at AF. So $11-12 million per frame. I believe the A332 recently cost $10 million per frame.


Thanks for clarifying makes much much more sense at ~$11-12 mm per frame.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:24 pm

I don't see why everybody thinks this order will go to the A220 / CSeries.

(a) Air France is not a state-run company and is in no way obligated to buy Airbus' or European products
(b) AF-KL is a good Boeing customer, and also an excellent Embraer customer
(c) KLM Cityhopper and HOP! operate large E-Jet fleets that would make integration of the E2 much easier
(d) Most of HOP!'s and KLM Cityhoppers routes are short, as are most A318 & A319 routes. The lighter Embraer should have an advantage here
(e) Embraer needs a blue-chip customer for the E2 and already has a price advantage over the A220
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:29 pm

mxaxai wrote:
I don't see why everybody thinks this order will go to the A220 / CSeries.

(a) Air France is not a state-run company and is in no way obligated to buy Airbus' or European products
(b) AF-KL is a good Boeing customer, and also an excellent Embraer customer
(c) KLM Cityhopper and HOP! operate large E-Jet fleets that would make integration of the E2 much easier
(d) Most of HOP!'s and KLM Cityhoppers routes are short, as are most A318 & A319 routes. The lighter Embraer should have an advantage here
(e) Embraer needs a blue-chip customer for the E2 and already has a price advantage over the A220

(a) So, per your reasoning, only state-run companies purchase Airbus??? Wasn't aware that AA, DL or UA were state-run...
(b) and a good Airbus customer
(d) If a route justifies using the A319, then using the E-jet would reduce capacity. The A220-300 is more in line that the E-Jet.
(e) Airbus needs another few blue-chip customer for the A220 as well.
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:37 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
I don't see why everybody thinks this order will go to the A220 / CSeries.

(a) Air France is not a state-run company and is in no way obligated to buy Airbus' or European products
(b) AF-KL is a good Boeing customer, and also an excellent Embraer customer
(c) KLM Cityhopper and HOP! operate large E-Jet fleets that would make integration of the E2 much easier
(d) Most of HOP!'s and KLM Cityhoppers routes are short, as are most A318 & A319 routes. The lighter Embraer should have an advantage here
(e) Embraer needs a blue-chip customer for the E2 and already has a price advantage over the A220

(a) So, per your reasoning, only state-run companies purchase Airbus??? Wasn't aware that AA, DL or UA were state-run...
(b) and a good Airbus customer
(d) If a route justifies using the A319, then using the E-jet would reduce capacity. The A220-300 is more in line that the E-Jet.
(e) Airbus needs another few blue-chip customer for the A220 as well.

I think he was merely suggesting that this is in no way a home run for the A220, and the E2 also has a competitive shot for the reasons he gave. A319 routes could potentially be adjusted to (195)E2 or A320(neo) as needed. You are reading too much (re: getting too defensive) into his statements
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:48 pm

AsiaTravel wrote:
In an interview in today's Le Journal du Dimanche, Anne Rigail revealed that Air France will place an order at Le Bourget. No additional details given.



Ahem, nowhere it is said that Air France will place a new order.

The journalist just says in his conclusion : "if Air France placed a new order, then it would bring evidence that the new plan is going well"
 
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:48 pm

rouelan wrote:
AsiaTravel wrote:
In an interview in today's Le Journal du Dimanche, Anne Rigail revealed that Air France will place an order at Le Bourget. No additional details given.



Ahem, nowhere it is said that Air France will place a new order.

The journalist just says in his conclusion : "if Air France placed a new order, then it would bring evidence that the new plan is going well"


A journalist wouldn't make such statement in an interview without a hint from the interviewee. This sentence in particular implies an off the record talk on the matter.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:25 pm

AsiaTravel wrote:
rouelan wrote:
AsiaTravel wrote:
In an interview in today's Le Journal du Dimanche, Anne Rigail revealed that Air France will place an order at Le Bourget. No additional details given.



Ahem, nowhere it is said that Air France will place a new order.

The journalist just says in his conclusion : "if Air France placed a new order, then it would bring evidence that the new plan is going well"


A journalist wouldn't make such statement in an interview without a hint from the interviewee. This sentence in particular implies an off the record talk on the matter.

Disagree. The article is extremely clear she knows the challenges ahead but hopes to find a solution. The last paragraph is clear:
Le plan d'investissement de la compagnie française est aujourd'hui focalisé sur l'A350 et le Boeing 787. Elle possède déjà sept appareils de l'américain et en attend trois supplémentaires. Elle s'est aussi engagée pour une première série d'une dizaine d'Airbus A350. Au printemps, lors du Salon du Bourget, l'annonce de commandes apporterait la preuve que le plan de relance du nouveau tandem est en bonne voie.

Translation (mine):
The investment plan for the French company is today centered on the A350 and the Boeing 787. It already has 7 of the American aircraft and awaits a further 3. It also committed to a first batch of around 10 Airbus A350. An order, during the Paris Air Show this spring, would prove the plan put in action by the new duo is heading the right direction

The new duo being Anne Rigail and Ben Smith.

While, yes, it does sound like there is a great chance Air France will place an order at the Paris Air Show (a much needed order, as proved by numerous people on here), she never confirmed there will be an order; saying so is, so far, pure speculation.
 
AsiaTravel
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Disagree. The article is extremely clear she knows the challenges ahead but hopes to find a solution. The last paragraph is clear:
Le plan d'investissement de la compagnie française est aujourd'hui focalisé sur l'A350 et le Boeing 787. Elle possède déjà sept appareils de l'américain et en attend trois supplémentaires. Elle s'est aussi engagée pour une première série d'une dizaine d'Airbus A350. Au printemps, lors du Salon du Bourget, l'annonce de commandes apporterait la preuve que le plan de relance du nouveau tandem est en bonne voie.

Translation (mine):
The investment plan for the French company is today centered on the A350 and the Boeing 787. It already has 7 of the American aircraft and awaits a further 3. It also committed to a first batch of around 10 Airbus A350. An order, during the Paris Air Show this spring, would prove the plan put in action by the new duo is heading the right direction

The new duo being Anne Rigail and Ben Smith.

While, yes, it does sound like there is a great chance Air France will place an order at the Paris Air Show (a much needed order, as proved by numerous people on here), she never confirmed there will be an order; saying so is, so far, pure speculation.


It would be really out of place from a journalist to claim that Air France might make an order during the Paris Air Show, especially in an interview. The last sentence is clearly meant to highlight an off the record talk which implies that the order isn't final yet but the goal is to finalise it by June.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:52 pm

AsiaTravel wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Disagree. The article is extremely clear she knows the challenges ahead but hopes to find a solution. The last paragraph is clear:
Le plan d'investissement de la compagnie française est aujourd'hui focalisé sur l'A350 et le Boeing 787. Elle possède déjà sept appareils de l'américain et en attend trois supplémentaires. Elle s'est aussi engagée pour une première série d'une dizaine d'Airbus A350. Au printemps, lors du Salon du Bourget, l'annonce de commandes apporterait la preuve que le plan de relance du nouveau tandem est en bonne voie.

Translation (mine):
The investment plan for the French company is today centered on the A350 and the Boeing 787. It already has 7 of the American aircraft and awaits a further 3. It also committed to a first batch of around 10 Airbus A350. An order, during the Paris Air Show this spring, would prove the plan put in action by the new duo is heading the right direction

The new duo being Anne Rigail and Ben Smith.

While, yes, it does sound like there is a great chance Air France will place an order at the Paris Air Show (a much needed order, as proved by numerous people on here), she never confirmed there will be an order; saying so is, so far, pure speculation.


It would be really out of place from a journalist to claim that Air France might make an order during the Paris Air Show, especially in an interview. The last sentence is clearly meant to highlight an off the record talk which implies that the order isn't final yet but the goal is to finalise it by June.

I guess we don't read the same way; maybe it's the loss in translation.

To me, the article in French takes priority and is clear: it's nothing more than supputation right now.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:56 pm

gsg013 wrote:
Thanks for clarifying makes much much more sense at ~$11-12 mm per frame.


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rouelan
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:18 pm

I dont know the journalist and, with all respect to her, I dont think she knows that it would be a very bad sign if an order is not placed in the forthcoming months to replace ageing a/c (as Lightsaber pointed out, some 319 are really getting tired ).

As we dont agree on the real meaning of the paper, I will try to give my views on what is going on in France.
We thought that our airline had hit the bottom with the infamous torn shirt incident. No, that was not enough, their staff ousted a very sensible CEO through a Brexit like vote.
And now, we are going from surprises to surprises. First, a non French hired, second he is a real pro, and last but not least, he promotes a lady (also a pro) to one of the most coveted position in France ("un job sympa" as said a former CEO who spent a lot of time in political spheres to get the job)

This explains why Anne attracts a lot of attention from media, including from JDD which is not an expert in aviation but obviously wanting to share this flabbergasting story with its readers.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:25 pm

The A220-100 could be for HOP! and current A318 mainline routes. (what’s the seat limit under HOP!?). The A220-300 could be for A319 routes plus the Caribbean island hopper fleet (bringing those A320s back to France with 3 A220-300s at PTP).
 
Breathe
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 pm

beechnut wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
Outside of the parent company, there is no part of the A220 that’s native to Europe or France.


Not so, at least until Brexit. The wings are manufactured by Bombardier (ex-Shorts) in Belfast.

Beech

After Brexit, Belfast will still remain part of the continent of Europe.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:17 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The A220-100 could be for HOP! and current A318 mainline routes. (what’s the seat limit under HOP!?). The A220-300 could be for A319 routes plus the Caribbean island hopper fleet (bringing those A320s back to France with 3 A220-300s at PTP).

No such thing as a seat limit for hop. There are no rules like us rj operators with a max seating.

Hop could operate a A340 like Lufthansa Cityline if they'd choose too.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:19 pm

Breathe wrote:
beechnut wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
Outside of the parent company, there is no part of the A220 that’s native to Europe or France.


Not so, at least until Brexit. The wings are manufactured by Bombardier (ex-Shorts) in Belfast.

Beech

After Brexit, Belfast will still remain part of the continent of Europe.

You call the british islands part of the European continent? Blasphemy!!
Don't let them hear you say this, they will throw you in the tower of London.
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Boair
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:48 pm

FlyRow wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The A220-100 could be for HOP! and current A318 mainline routes. (what’s the seat limit under HOP!?). The A220-300 could be for A319 routes plus the Caribbean island hopper fleet (bringing those A320s back to France with 3 A220-300s at PTP).

No such thing as a seat limit for hop. There are no rules like us rj operators with a max seating.

Hop could operate a A340 like Lufthansa Cityline if they'd choose too.


Hop! can't operate aircrafts with more than 110 seats so A220 will have to be with Air France.

Link (in french):
https://www.air-journal.fr/2019-01-21-l ... 09835.html
A313 A318 A319 A320 A321 A330 A343 A380 B734 B73H B738 B744 B752 B763 B77E B77W B788 B789 AT72 DH8D MD88 E145 E190 IL96 PC6
 
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LA704
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:04 am

Boair wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The A220-100 could be for HOP! and current A318 mainline routes. (what’s the seat limit under HOP!?). The A220-300 could be for A319 routes plus the Caribbean island hopper fleet (bringing those A320s back to France with 3 A220-300s at PTP).

No such thing as a seat limit for hop. There are no rules like us rj operators with a max seating.

Hop could operate a A340 like Lufthansa Cityline if they'd choose too.


Hop! can't operate aircrafts with more than 110 seats so A220 will have to be with Air France.

Link (in french):
https://www.air-journal.fr/2019-01-21-l ... 09835.html


For me this rules out the A221. If it can't be operated by HOP, the longer version will be more attractive.
My prediction is A223 to replace A318/319, together with 320neo/321neo, possibly some LR. Not sure about the LR, CDG/ORY isn't that much closer to the US than FRA, and LH said it lacks range, especially as AF usually has denser configurations. Possibly some 789 top-up to keep Boeing calm.
318 319 320 321 332 343 722 731 732 735 73G 742 744 752 762 763 77W M11
 
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keesje
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:41 am

KLM could very well use A321LR for Middle East, Africa and maybe even some TATL's (if Delta doesn't get them). However KLM infrastructure is totally 737 orientated, they are making money on 737 components & engines.

About Elbers, he's blue blood, he's home grown. Most employees feel in the end he ensures the company's well being comes first. You take care of the company, the company takes care of you culture. If you strike, the rest of the company doesn't accept.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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terrificturk
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:52 am

Aesma wrote:
Hop! and its predecessors used to have a fleet of pretty much every small jet and prop, CR1,CR2,CR7,CRJ,F-100,E90,E95,ATR, then AF has all the Airbus narrowbodies, is it likely that all of these can be replaced by just A2 and A321 ?


IIRC, the predecessors also had Do328-100s, early ATR models and F28s before the CRJs came...

and No, I personally do not think so.
 
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terrificturk
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:54 am

keesje wrote:
KLM could very well use A321LR for Middle East, Africa and maybe even some TATL's (if Delta doesn't get them). However KLM infrastructure is totally 737 orientated, they are making money on 737 components & engines.

About Elbers, he's blue blood, he's home grown. Most employees feel in the end he ensures the company's well being comes first. You take care of the company, the company takes care of you culture. If you strike, the rest of the company doesn't accept.


Yes, and Elbers has good arguments on his side. For years, KLM has performed better than AF - not only on paper (i.e. money), but also in passenger satisfaction (on the ground and in the air)... a new CEO who has not much experience in aviation, would be well-advised to see why that is so.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:58 pm

Okcflyer wrote:
Outside of the parent company, there is no part of the A220 that’s native to Europe or France. Not the PW (USA) engines. Not the assembly. There is no secondary economic value or jobs. Given this, it doesn’t have a home field advantage that many are assuming. Embraer sits nearly equal with the only major difference being the E2-195 is smaller than the A223.

Firstly Air France orders aren't political (hence the world's second largest 777 fleet). Secondly, even the E195-E2 is a noticeable capacity reduction from the A319s which are supposedly the ones being replaced, which probably makes them a harder proposition.

LifelinerOne wrote:
The B737MAX was indeed the preferred choice by KLM. But, since the arrival of Smith it seems the CEO's of KLM and Air France have less influence and that Smith really wants to push a further integration within the Group, including simplified brands and fleets. That's why the Airbus-rumours are getting stronger as it is a number's game.


IMO in an age where IAG has focused on a single narrowbody mainline fleet type and where Lufthansa Group has (with the exception of Swiss' CSeries) consolidated to a single narrowbody fleet type (nearly all of which have CFM56 engines), AFKL will surely be forced to do the same. Then again, maybe in a few years time they will end up owning Norwegian or Volotea - thus making any consolidation to a single fleet type at this time pointless.
First to fly the 787-9
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air France will place an order at Le Bourget - Anne Rigail, CEO

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:20 pm

zkojq wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
Outside of the parent company, there is no part of the A220 that’s native to Europe or France. Not the PW (USA) engines. Not the assembly. There is no secondary economic value or jobs. Given this, it doesn’t have a home field advantage that many are assuming. Embraer sits nearly equal with the only major difference being the E2-195 is smaller than the A223.

Firstly Air France orders aren't political (hence the world's second largest 777 fleet). Secondly, even the E195-E2 is a noticeable capacity reduction from the A319s which are supposedly the ones being replaced, which probably makes them a harder proposition.

Well, people on here love to keep rehashing things from the past. Air France orders used to be political; hasn't been the case in years, but it doesn't matter for A.net.

zkojq wrote:
LifelinerOne wrote:
The B737MAX was indeed the preferred choice by KLM. But, since the arrival of Smith it seems the CEO's of KLM and Air France have less influence and that Smith really wants to push a further integration within the Group, including simplified brands and fleets. That's why the Airbus-rumours are getting stronger as it is a number's game.


IMO in an age where IAG has focused on a single narrowbody mainline fleet type and where Lufthansa Group has (with the exception of Swiss' CSeries) consolidated to a single narrowbody fleet type (nearly all of which have CFM56 engines), AFKL will surely be forced to do the same. Then again, maybe in a few years time they will end up owning Norwegian or Volotea - thus making any consolidation to a single fleet type at this time pointless.

Remember also that AFKL has an MRO side (that LH has too); owning a variety of fleets allows you access to all the relevant manuals, which can then be used on the MRO side. A good example of that is DL, with TechOps; they have a very varied fleets, and it does not appear they have any will to simplify it. However, their MRO generates tons of money, which most likely compensates for the added cost of different fleets.

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