Jutlander
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Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:28 pm

PMI is the busiest airport in Europe without TATL flights. A lot of smaller airports have TATL flights.

Why is there no TATL from PMI? Do Americans not want to come to this beautiful island?
 
jubaexpress
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:49 pm

Because its nothing worth flying thousands of miles for? It's a nice place for Europeans to get a tan but not worth a TATL for...
 
bohica
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:54 pm

As an American I can tell you most Americans have never heard of PMI. There is no marketing of PMI targeted towards Americans. For those reasons there is not enough traffic to support nonstop TATL service to PMI. PMI is also a leisure destination which usually means low yields. Therefore the best option between the USA and PMI is a connection in Europe.

BTW I have been to PMI. It was awesome. :)
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:04 pm

It would serve no one just burn money, and yes it really is a nice location. ;)
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
eicvd
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:05 am

Skyservice did fly to PMI from YYZ, cruise related I think
COYBIB
 
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stl07
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:06 am

Because F9 flies to Florida for $30
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:42 am

You get the odd flight to PMI from the US for cruises - even seen NW send the B742 in the past, but you will not see a scheduled service because the demand is not there. And what meagre demand there is can be served via multiple European hubs.

I expect it won't be long before TK announces a flight, however. It's apparently on their radar.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
aviationaware
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:06 am

Why would anyone want to go to PMI when the Bahamas are just a lot closer and cheaper to get to?
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:30 am

Would be kind of nice if someone could clarify what PMI stands for...
 
N292UX
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:32 am

I said something about this a few days back in the PHL thread. It's certainly do-able. DL runs JFK-AGP on a seasonal basis at the moment.

My prediction is that AA will eventually start a seasonal PHL-PMI with the A321neo in a few years. They're the best candidate considering they have the A321neo and would have strong OneWorld ties with both BA and IB.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:56 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
Would be kind of nice if someone could clarify what PMI stands for...


PMI is the airport code for Palma, Mallorca, which is an island off the Mediterranean coast of Spain it is a sister island of the slightly more famous in Dance Music circles Ibiza (IBZ). It is an insanely popular destination for vacations in Europe, literally millions fly in every year from The UK, Germany, Scandinavia amongst others. PMI is an exceedingly busy airport and I can see why the OP would ask such a question, but the reality is as others have stated, it’s not well known in the US and we have other closer and cheaper places to go.
I’ve been to the Island a couple of times when I was a kid, and although I didn’t appreciate it as much at the time, it really is beautiful. Fantastic beaches, nightlife and those wanting a quieter stay in the North there is a spectacular hills region, lemon groves and one of the scariest switchback road you will likely ever see. It really is a great place to go, but you would never prise enough people away from the US to make it work, when you have the.Caribbean, Mexico and beyond to go to
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:09 am

N292UX wrote:
I said something about this a few days back in the PHL thread. It's certainly do-able. DL runs JFK-AGP on a seasonal basis at the moment.

My prediction is that AA will eventually start a seasonal PHL-PMI with the A321neo in a few years. They're the best candidate considering they have the A321neo and would have strong OneWorld ties with both BA and IB.


Norwegian had expressed interest a few years ago to serve PMI-JFK. But that was the "old" Norwegian.

AGP and PMI are two very different markets.

- Mallorca is a 1 million people island. If you make a 10 km. circle around AGP, you already have more residents. AGP is the busiest airport in the most populated region in Spain (Andalusia which has 8-9 million people). The local market is way bigger.

- AGP is the gateway to Andalusia (Granada + Seville + Cordoba) which can be easily done as a 1-week cultural trip being very popular for Asian or American tourists. The old town of Palma is OK but you see that in half a day (cruise stop).

- Overall as a premium beach destination, Marbella / Costa del Sol (AGP's backyard) is way bigger than PMI's. In PMI you have some very expensive villas here and there and your Louis Vuitton shop but that is all. Marbella is a continuum of million-euro homes and Puerto Banús in Marbella is Spain's 2nd concentration of luxury brands after Madrid. You could say Marbella is Spain's Palm Beach. Mallorca... not so sure. Some Hilton Head? Oranges and apples. That is why in AGP you have carriers like Turkish (which is I think is twice daily), Sun d'Or (El Al), Qatar, Saudia, Kuwait Airways and now Gulf Air from Bahrain (Marbella is quite popular for people from the Middle East). In PMI there is not even Turkish that flies to any other airport in Europe!

Traffic figures in PMI are impressive but the Spanish, German (specially those two) and British markets are overrepresented.

- Mallorca has had the highest population growth in Spain for the last few years. Which means a lot of people in Mallorca are from other parts of Spain. PMI is 1 hour away to MAD and BCN and literally connected to any airport in Spain. Residents get 75% off from the government on their ticket to any other destination in Spain. Think of Ryanair and Vueling. That means that everyone living in Mallorca (which includes many "mainlanders") can fly pretty much to anywhere in Spain at any time for less than 25 EUR (100 EUR with 75% off) and very often for 10 EUR.

- For a reason Mallorca is considered the 17th Federal State of Germany. There are German tourists and residents everywhere at anytime. That means (on top of your August German tourists) that there are Germans flying back and forth all year round between PMI and Germany (2nd homes, businesses). PMI-Germany had 10 million PAX last year. PMI is usually the busiest international route from German airports (other than the two big connecting hubs of FRA and MUC and Berlin: DUS, CGN, STR, HAM...)
 
SCQ83
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:21 am

PlymSpotter wrote:
You get the odd flight to PMI from the US for cruises - even seen NW send the B742 in the past, but you will not see a scheduled service because the demand is not there. And what meagre demand there is can be served via multiple European hubs.

I expect it won't be long before TK announces a flight, however. It's apparently on their radar.


IMO seasonal ISL-IBZ would work better. Or FlyDubai or Qatar (narrow body) flying DXB/DOH-IBZ.

Aegean is starting this summer ATH-IBZ, so let's see how it works. A3 served ATH-PMI for a season a few years ago and didn't come back.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:38 am

As others have said:
-Americans haven't heard of PMI. The only ones that have are broke ass college kids because they see it as a new place to club at. And ultimately they don't go because they can do that in the closest city with a club.
-Mexico is closer and cheaper.
-Florida and Hawaii dont require passports.
-Americans are more focused on Greece or BCN for a European beach trip.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:47 am

Funny, my father was s good friend of Temple Fielding (his US accountant) and I always heard of Majorca, as Temple lived there. Spain then was a rather pariah state. Since then I’ve been to both the Balerics and the Cansries, actually like Tenerife somewhat better. All are better vacations than Hawaii or the Bahamas.

GF
 
N292UX
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:05 am

SCQ83 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
I said something about this a few days back in the PHL thread. It's certainly do-able. DL runs JFK-AGP on a seasonal basis at the moment.

My prediction is that AA will eventually start a seasonal PHL-PMI with the A321neo in a few years. They're the best candidate considering they have the A321neo and would have strong OneWorld ties with both BA and IB.


Norwegian had expressed interest a few years ago to serve PMI-JFK. But that was the "old" Norwegian.

AGP and PMI are two very different markets.

- Mallorca is a 1 million people island. If you make a 10 km. circle around AGP, you already have more residents. AGP is the busiest airport in the most populated region in Spain (Andalusia which has 8-9 million people). The local market is way bigger.

- AGP is the gateway to Andalusia (Granada + Seville + Cordoba) which can be easily done as a 1-week cultural trip being very popular for Asian or American tourists. The old town of Palma is OK but you see that in half a day (cruise stop).

- Overall as a premium beach destination, Marbella / Costa del Sol (AGP's backyard) is way bigger than PMI's. In PMI you have some very expensive villas here and there and your Louis Vuitton shop but that is all. Marbella is a continuum of million-euro homes and Puerto Banús in Marbella is Spain's 2nd concentration of luxury brands after Madrid. You could say Marbella is Spain's Palm Beach. Mallorca... not so sure. Some Hilton Head? Oranges and apples. That is why in AGP you have carriers like Turkish (which is I think is twice daily), Sun d'Or (El Al), Qatar, Saudia, Kuwait Airways and now Gulf Air from Bahrain (Marbella is quite popular for people from the Middle East). In PMI there is not even Turkish that flies to any other airport in Europe!

Traffic figures in PMI are impressive but the Spanish, German (specially those two) and British markets are overrepresented.

- Mallorca has had the highest population growth in Spain for the last few years. Which means a lot of people in Mallorca are from other parts of Spain. PMI is 1 hour away to MAD and BCN and literally connected to any airport in Spain. Residents get 75% off from the government on their ticket to any other destination in Spain. Think of Ryanair and Vueling. That means that everyone living in Mallorca (which includes many "mainlanders") can fly pretty much to anywhere in Spain at any time for less than 25 EUR (100 EUR with 75% off) and very often for 10 EUR.

- For a reason Mallorca is considered the 17th Federal State of Germany. There are German tourists and residents everywhere at anytime. That means (on top of your August German tourists) that there are Germans flying back and forth all year round between PMI and Germany (2nd homes, businesses). PMI-Germany had 10 million PAX last year. PMI is usually the busiest international route from German airports (other than the two big connecting hubs of FRA and MUC and Berlin: DUS, CGN, STR, HAM...)
My goodness 10 million is a lot of passengers to 1 country from an airport the size of PMI. It appears PMI is much more LCC-based, while AGP seems to have a larger legacy presence. If AA were to start any route from PHL to Spain, it'd probably be AGP, and that seems pretty doubtful. If anyone were to start a US-PMI flight, I guess it'd either be IB to JFK or maybe F9 pulling the dartboard out and launching some flights to PMI that last 1 summer using the A321neo or something. Both of those seem pretty unlikely to happen anytime in the next 5 years. While I really don't think it'll ever happen, if F9 were to suddenly launch a few random dartboard routes from the east coast to PMI on the A321neo, let's just say I wouldn't fall over in shock.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:42 am

N292UX wrote:
I said something about this a few days back in the PHL thread. It's certainly do-able. DL runs JFK-AGP on a seasonal basis at the moment.

My prediction is that AA will eventually start a seasonal PHL-PMI with the A321neo in a few years. They're the best candidate considering they have the A321neo and would have strong OneWorld ties with both BA and IB.


I would handily bet against a nonstop flight to PMI. Mexico/Caribbean is just as nice as a place to visit, with newer, far better resorts serving better food catering to American tourists... all for less money and without the long flight. Heck, as it is, the West Coast is underrepresented to the Caribbean, preferring to stay within the Pacific Mexico, Hawaii and Cancun.
Nobody cares what your next flight is...
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:58 am

Anyone who wants to go there from the US can easily connect from major European hubs, especially MAD or BCN.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:05 am

TWA772LR wrote:
As others have said:
-Americans haven't heard of PMI. The only ones that have are broke ass college kids because they see it as a new place to club at. And ultimately they don't go because they can do that in the closest city with a club.
-Mexico is closer and cheaper.
-Florida and Hawaii dont require passports.
-Americans are more focused on Greece or BCN for a European beach trip.


PMI is not famous for their clubs. That is Ibiza which is a different island with its own 8-million PAX airport. Ibiza is definitely way more non-European. You can see many Americans, Latin Americans or Asian tourists there.

N292UX wrote:
My goodness 10 million is a lot of passengers to 1 country from an airport the size of PMI. It appears PMI is much more LCC-based, while AGP seems to have a larger legacy presence.


Those were the top 10 markets in PAX from PMI in 2018. Germany + Spain represent almost 2/3 of the total PAX. Including the UK that is roughly 80%.

1. Germany 9.862.062
2. Spain 7.018.381
3. United Kingdom 5.431.153
4. Switzerland 1.003.889
5. France 856.979
6. Sweden 733.062
7. Denmark 607.221
8. Austria 578.831
9. Netherlands 550.115
10. Italy 466.224


In Malaga:

1. United Kingdom 5.727.011
2. Spain 2.750.990
3. Germany 1.578.145
4. France 1.144.415
5. Netherlands 1.110.522
6. Belgium 801.975
7. Denmark 799.771
8. Ireland 785.677
9. Sweden 685.965
10. Italy 620.075


The Spanish market in AGP is way smaller since it is on the mainland and has good high-speed connection to Madrid and elsewhere. Germany to AGP is way way smaller than to PMI. Other smaller EU countries are overall better represented in AGP.

And the Top 10 airports from PMI. 1 British, 2 Spanish and... 7 German.

1. Barcelona 2.033.266
2. Madrid 1.959.656
3. Dusseldorf 1.524.047
4. Frankfurt 1.010.334
5. Cologne 964.308
6. Hamburg 835.390
7. Berlin Tegel 822.443
8. Munich 781.303
9. London Gatwick 780.662
10. Stuttgart 753.277
 
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albertocsc
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:39 am

I was expecting this question to arrive soon.

Mallorca is a really busy airport, but passengers are predominantly European, so no need for TATL flights. The previous answers describe the situation perfectly.

By the way, many airlines are headquartered in Mallorca, including Air Europa, one of Spain biggest. This airline flies many TATL routes, but all of them are flown from their Madrid base, having also tried flying from Tenerife before (Miami and Caracas, as far as I remember), and I never remember them flying TATL from their home base PMI.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:43 am

TWA772LR wrote:
As others have said:


That is IBZ not PMI. PMI is only could for clubbing if you are into popular German or British music - real clubbing with famous DJs happens on Ibiza.
 
runway23
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:42 am

SCQ83 wrote:

IMO seasonal ISL-IBZ would work better. Or FlyDubai or Qatar (narrow body) flying DXB/DOH-IBZ.

Aegean is starting this summer ATH-IBZ, so let's see how it works. A3 served ATH-PMI for a season a few years ago and didn't come back.


The problem with IBZ is it is highly seasonal, very busy in July/August, calmer in June/July and dead the rest of the year. PMI is less seasonal in that regard.

A3 might actually be trying to make IBZ work based on connections from/to JMK/JTR. I don’t see how Turkish, FlyDubai or Qatar would accomplish something similar - there is very little demand to IBZ from those airports and the demand there is can easily be funneled through BCN/MAD or a host of other airports.

Coming back to US-PMI, another reason I can see is that PMI will most likely never be the only airport an American will visit on a trip - it might be part of a cruise (in which case BCN is where they would most likely start the cruise), or a second part of a trip (after another city). Also as previously said there’s not much of a selling point compared to other airports. PMI whilst having some affluent areas isn’t in the same league as AGP or NCE.

Even NAP which has infinitely more demand (Italian links, Amalfi, Pompeii, way bigger population area, etc) than PMI is only getting its first non stop flight this year.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:50 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
You get the odd flight to PMI from the US for cruises - even seen NW send the B742 in the past, but you will not see a scheduled service because the demand is not there. And what meagre demand there is can be served via multiple European hubs.

I expect it won't be long before TK announces a flight, however. It's apparently on their radar.


IMO seasonal ISL-IBZ would work better. Or FlyDubai or Qatar (narrow body) flying DXB/DOH-IBZ.

Aegean is starting this summer ATH-IBZ, so let's see how it works. A3 served ATH-PMI for a season a few years ago and didn't come back.


Agean's flights are focused on the inbound market, much less the outbound transit market. Mallorca has a resident population of approaching 900,000 people, with a higher than average propensity to travel. IBZ is a much smaller market and is much more seasonal.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
SCQ83
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:00 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
Agean's flights are focused on the inbound market, much less the outbound transit market. Mallorca has a resident population of approaching 900,000 people, with a higher than average propensity to travel. IBZ is a much smaller market and is much more seasonal.


Aegean can connect places like SKG, JMK, IST, AMM, BEY, TLV, JED, RUH, CAI, TBS, EVN, DME, KBP, BEG, etc. with IBZ. Ibiza is a world renowned destination while PMI is overall more European oriented. Not very different than Qatar Airways flying to Mykonos (population 10,000; 1/15 of Ibiza's).
 
Galwayman
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:11 pm

jubaexpress wrote:
Because its nothing worth flying thousands of miles for? It's a nice place for Europeans to get a tan but not worth a TATL for...


It’s a million times nicer than Hawaii but let’s keep the ignorami ignorant .... works out better in the end for everyone
 
a350lover
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:13 pm

Jutlander wrote:
PMI is the busiest airport in Europe without TATL flights. A lot of smaller airports have TATL flights.

Why is there no TATL from PMI? Do Americans not want to come to this beautiful island?


The reason for this is PMI is an O&D destination. Most of the traffic originates in Germany and could actually be considered "domestic";). Which TATL routes could work for PMI?

USA to Palma? There is a huge market which links USA to Europe and then easy-transfers to PMI. Only NYC-MAD is up to 6 daily, soon 5x/day to Barcelona.

I don't see any reason to serve PMI from America, not for sure from Asia. A seasonal flight from the Middle East could attract some traffic, but again, I doubt this could be sustainable, and there are options which are yet to fully establish like the Doha-Malaga flight, or connections to Ibiza, Valencia, etc.

I think there is a bit of a "fever" for connecting points in the planet via non-stop routes, and this is hurting a lot the yields for airlines.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:17 pm

Residents of PMI are very wealthy , any such flight would be for them not for the unwashed hoards of the USA ... and they’re probably not really interested in the urine and excrement stenched cities of the USA
 
SCQ83
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:19 pm

runway23 wrote:
The problem with IBZ is it is highly seasonal, very busy in July/August, calmer in June/July and dead the rest of the year. PMI is less seasonal in that regard.

A3 might actually be trying to make IBZ work based on connections from/to JMK/JTR. I don’t see how Turkish, FlyDubai or Qatar would accomplish something similar - there is very little demand to IBZ from those airports and the demand there is can easily be funneled through BCN/MAD or a host of other airports.


Ibiza is seasonal but not as seasonal as, let's say, Dubrovnik (with American Airlines, Turkish and flyDubai) or Mykonos (with Qatar Airways).
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:13 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
Agean's flights are focused on the inbound market, much less the outbound transit market. Mallorca has a resident population of approaching 900,000 people, with a higher than average propensity to travel. IBZ is a much smaller market and is much more seasonal.


Aegean can connect places like SKG, JMK, IST, AMM, BEY, TLV, JED, RUH, CAI, TBS, EVN, DME, KBP, BEG, etc. with IBZ. Ibiza is a world renowned destination while PMI is overall more European oriented. Not very different than Qatar Airways flying to Mykonos (population 10,000; 1/15 of Ibiza's).


Which is great, but if it turns out that TK do launch PMI, they can offer global connections to some ten times those destinations, and that's excluding those which
require significant backtracking.

However my point is not about the inbound market, be it to PMI, IBZ or JMK, it's about the outbound market. Turkish require this, whilst for Agean it's icing on the cake.

Also in QR's case, it's worth noting that they announced JMK after launching (the more popular) SKG and seeing stronger than expected forward bookings. So by your precedent, if QR were to launch flights to the Balearic Islands, they would be far more likely to launch PMI first, and then potentially IBZ depending on demand.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Thibault973
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:04 pm

In 10 years Mallorca went from virtually unknown in France with just 1 carrier on Paris-PMI (UX) to receiving close to 900 000 French passengers last year. Paris-Palma is served by 3 carriers year round and 6 in the summer + the usual charters and about every international airport has a direct flight to PMI in the summer with VY/U2/FR/VY. Even Nîmes has flights in the summer with Air nostrum ! I read an article last year saying that for 1 day, PMI was the second busiest airport in Europe after LHR ! While Americans are late to the party I’m sure they’ll catch up soon.
 
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drerx7
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:23 pm

Galwayman wrote:
jubaexpress wrote:
Because its nothing worth flying thousands of miles for? It's a nice place for Europeans to get a tan but not worth a TATL for...


It’s a million times nicer than Hawaii but let’s keep the ignorami ignorant .... works out better in the end for everyone

AGREED!

I love Hawaii for vacation - but I PMI is fantastic
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
klm617
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:46 pm

Didn't Iberia back in the 1970s fly PMI-JFK Nonstop.
Last edited by klm617 on Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:48 pm

drerx7 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
jubaexpress wrote:
Because its nothing worth flying thousands of miles for? It's a nice place for Europeans to get a tan but not worth a TATL for...


It’s a million times nicer than Hawaii but let’s keep the ignorami ignorant .... works out better in the end for everyone

AGREED!

I love Hawaii for vacation - but I PMI is fantastic


I agree I have been there twice now and it beats any place in the Caribbean or Mexico. It can be pretty cheap to get there. If you buy a ticket from the USA to Europe and then buy a PMI package from a European city it's cheaper than going to Hawaii and as you say much better.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
EBiafore99
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:06 pm

I've seen some commenters talk about "just connect through Europe"...that is not as easy as it sounds, especially from a mid-size city. That could easily involve two connections. A frequent traveler may accept it because it's someplace "new" so to speak.

However, when you get in the realm of leisure travel, especially to a beach destination, you're dealing with a different customer. They want to get there fast. Look at all of the LCCs in the US offering seasonal non-stop flights from mid-size cities to beach destinations...that's what people want. A leisure traveler may take one connection, but I think that's it. The name of the game is to maximize the time at your destination, not getting to your destination.

Bottom line - I think there needs to be a TATL flight from somewhere (i.e. JFK) with packages from the USA for Americans to visit. You could probably get leisure travelers to make a connection at JFK knowing they will be on the beach by let's say 10:00 am the next day?
 
mspeaumsn
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:24 pm

stl07 wrote:
Because F9 flies to Florida for $30

This and $50 fairs on NK/G4 to CA for those west of Mississippi.
 
User001
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:05 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Residents of PMI are very wealthy , any such flight would be for them not for the unwashed hoards of the USA ... and they’re probably not really interested in the urine and excrement stenched cities of the USA


Further up the page you call others ignorant, but then you yourself comes out with a statement like the one above.

Hypocrisy is too subtle a word to describe that.

Having travelled quite extensively through the USA, I can honestly say it has some truly beautiful areas. The rockies, Yosemite, parts of California, Lake Tahoe, Charleston Coast, the gulf coast etc to name a few hell, even Long Island had some nice beaches. Denver was quite a nice city, San Diego, downtown Chicago and others were great too. Yes, the US has a few areas best avoided, like some parts of LA, but direct me to a single country that doesn’t have an avoidable area in some form (to stay on topic, even Majorca has avoidable areas, like Magaluf for example. again the irony of calling the US urine stenched, you clearly haven’t been to Maga during any summer evening...)
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 894
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:21 pm

I was at PMI last summer. Had a good time on the east coast there. During the world cup semifinals, too, which was cool.

But I only went to Mallorca because I had friends living in Europe at the time and none in the group had ever been to Spain. It wasn't enough to make me want to fly TATL to get there. Plenty of equally as good places in the Caribbean.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:29 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
I've seen some commenters talk about "just connect through Europe"...that is not as easy as it sounds, especially from a mid-size city. That could easily involve two connections. A frequent traveler may accept it because it's someplace "new" so to speak.


It is easy as it sounds. In peak summer PMI has literally dozens of daily flights to MAD, BCN, LON, FRA, DUB or DUS and quite a few flights to other cities like PAR. Those are all major hubs for TATL flights. What else do you need? Probably someone from Tulsa or El Paso needs double connecting, but those markets will be negligible anyway.
 
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OA940
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:51 pm

runway23 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:

IMO seasonal ISL-IBZ would work better. Or FlyDubai or Qatar (narrow body) flying DXB/DOH-IBZ.

Aegean is starting this summer ATH-IBZ, so let's see how it works. A3 served ATH-PMI for a season a few years ago and didn't come back.


The problem with IBZ is it is highly seasonal, very busy in July/August, calmer in June/July and dead the rest of the year. PMI is less seasonal in that regard.

A3 might actually be trying to make IBZ work based on connections from/to JMK/JTR. I don’t see how Turkish, FlyDubai or Qatar would accomplish something similar - there is very little demand to IBZ from those airports and the demand there is can easily be funneled through BCN/MAD or a host of other airports.

Coming back to US-PMI, another reason I can see is that PMI will most likely never be the only airport an American will visit on a trip - it might be part of a cruise (in which case BCN is where they would most likely start the cruise), or a second part of a trip (after another city). Also as previously said there’s not much of a selling point compared to other airports. PMI whilst having some affluent areas isn’t in the same league as AGP or NCE.

Even NAP which has infinitely more demand (Italian links, Amalfi, Pompeii, way bigger population area, etc) than PMI is only getting its first non stop flight this year.


Look. I don't know exactly how every 20-something thinks, but to me it doesn't really make sense to go from one nightlife island to another.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1570
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:09 pm

User001 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Residents of PMI are very wealthy , any such flight would be for them not for the unwashed hoards of the USA ... and they’re probably not really interested in the urine and excrement stenched cities of the USA


Further up the page you call others ignorant, but then you yourself comes out with a statement like the one above.

Hypocrisy is too subtle a word to describe that.

Having travelled quite extensively through the USA, I can honestly say it has some truly beautiful areas. The rockies, Yosemite, parts of California, Lake Tahoe, Charleston Coast, the gulf coast etc to name a few hell, even Long Island had some nice beaches. Denver was quite a nice city, San Diego, downtown Chicago and others were great too. Yes, the US has a few areas best avoided, like some parts of LA, but direct me to a single country that doesn’t have an avoidable area in some form (to stay on topic, even Majorca has avoidable areas, like Magaluf for example. again the irony of calling the US urine stenched, you clearly haven’t been to Maga during any summer evening...)


To add more rebuttal... take any beach on the Med, go to the nearest clump of trees... and you have a midden of human digestive track output. Not true in the States, and certainly not in Hawaii.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 4865
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:52 pm

OA940 wrote:
Look. I don't know exactly how every 20-something thinks, but to me it doesn't really make sense to go from one nightlife island to another.


Ibiza and (specially) Mykonos are very expensive for most 20-somethings. They target older and more affluent crowds.
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 744
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:10 am

As recent as last year local authorities were looking to incentive (aka subsidize) non-stop flights from PMI and IBZ to NorthAm, according to local media YYZ-PMI and JFK-IBZ were pursued. TS and DY were targeted as potential carriers.

https://www.diariodemallorca.es/mallorc ... 48360.html

https://www.ultimahora.es/noticias/loca ... calas.html

Links only in spanish
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E175,E190,ATR42,DSH8,CS1,CS3
 
a350lover
Posts: 614
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:40 pm

I believe the next TATL link to a Spanish city without long haul connections should be Bilbao.

Norwegian talked about it although this surely has changed due to the current situation for DY.

Delta could give it a go as a seasonal port?
 
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OzarkD9S
Posts: 5243
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:19 am

stl07 wrote:

Because F9 flies to Florida for $30


I almost spit out my drink with this one! :rotfl:
Next up: STL-ATL-NAS-ATL-STL. :cloudnine:
 
OccupiedLav
Posts: 3
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:54 am

Galwayman wrote:
Residents of PMI are very wealthy , any such flight would be for them not for the unwashed hoards of the USA ... and they’re probably not really interested in the urine and excrement stenched cities of the USA


I was in Palma this past Summer and enjoyed it, but I distinctly remember it smelling like urine every bit as much as any of the cities in the U.S. (maybe even more so). Also, the residents of Mallorca would not be who the flight is catered to. There aren't enough of them. It would simply be a leisure route mostly used by Americans. (but why would they fly all the way to PMI when they could go to the Caribbean or Hawaii?)
 
Begues
Posts: 68
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:19 am

OccupiedLav wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Residents of PMI are very wealthy , any such flight would be for them not for the unwashed hoards of the USA ... and they’re probably not really interested in the urine and excrement stenched cities of the USA


I was in Palma this past Summer and enjoyed it, but I distinctly remember it smelling like urine every bit as much as any of the cities in the U.S. (maybe even more so). Also, the residents of Mallorca would not be who the flight is catered to. There aren't enough of them. It would simply be a leisure route mostly used by Americans. (but why would they fly all the way to PMI when they could go to the Caribbean or Hawaii?)


Back in the 1990s when the old generation from before the 1960s tourist boom was still alive, you could visit any tourist destination in Spain and be meet by the lovely smell of chlorine every morning when the locals had cleaned the streets. A nice tradition that unfortunately disappeared or rather died away many many years ago now.


Btw, in the urine and excrement department, Magaluf during summer is definitely on par with San Francisco.
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 744
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:24 am

a350lover wrote:
I believe the next TATL link to a Spanish city without long haul connections should be Bilbao.

Norwegian talked about it although this surely has changed due to the current situation for DY.

Delta could give it a go as a seasonal port?


Bilbao isn't a beach destination and Americans/Canadians are currently bussed from Barcelona and Madrid to see Gugenheim, most of them don't even spend a single night in Bilbao.

IMO if a new TATL link is opened in the near future it'd be VLC, beach destination, some cruise traffic and proximity to both Madrid and Barcelona. Remember DL flew JFK-VLC around 2010-2011, at that time global economy was going much worse than today.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763, 732,733,735,737,738,739,752,722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,M83,M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,333,343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,CR9,CR10,
E175,E190,ATR42,DSH8,CS1,CS3
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1557
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Re: Why no TATL from PMI?

Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:28 am

While we're talking about Mediterranean beach destinations, I'm actually somewhat surprised that there isn't more TATL from NCE. DL has done fairly well there with a seasonal 757, and I would imagine UA could do the same from EWR and/or AA from PHL. More Nice service seems like a better business case than trying to do TATL from Mallorca or Ibiza.
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