SpaceshipDC10
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Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:06 pm

Earlier this week, two Qubec City's representatives in YQB's board have resigned. Why? Because the airport's direction has sent formal notices eight municipal and tourism office's employees.

Quebec City finds there aren't enough flights out of YQB, thus a committy has been set-up by the City to investigate. Obviously the commity has come to some conclusions about the why and how. The airport's direction is not happy about it and is apparently doing everything to prevent the report to be released. It justifies its action by saying the commity to investigate has exceeded its mandate by taking position regarding the airport's governance.

Apparently, following the airport's new terminal inauguration, the Tourism office is considering to provide subsidies to attract new flights out of YQB as it's been done for YUL-PVG. No destinations have been named but France, Mexico and China are considered.

Frankly, I don't see why there would be flights to China from YQB since both AC and CA are flying there from YUL. France, and perhaps other European countries on a seasonal basis would make more sense than the Far East.



https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/11 ... age-quebec

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/11 ... municipaux

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/11 ... ean-lesage
Last edited by qf789 on Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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YYZLGA
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:13 pm

France and maybe parts of the US would seem the obvious place for additional flights. Quebec is beautiful and an attractive tourist destination, so seasonal flights to some big American cities might be viable--maybe Boston and Washington?
 
TerminalD
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:27 pm

I'm not sure you can just say "the airport is underserved, fire the management" as the unreleased report apparently says. It's a lot more complicated than that. These are air carrier decisions. Sure you can try to convince them, but at the end of the day, the decision ultimately lies with airlines as to how much service YQB has.

Challenges:
1) Market is very seasonal for inbound tourism
2) Market is very seasonal for outbound tourism to different markets
3) Absent WS and AC, there is no carrier that can take advantage of both seasons
4) The currency situation with the USA has made service to secondary locations in Canada from the USA largely fail.
5) AC benefits from the geography of YQB as a spoke into their hubs rather than a nonstop O&D and they have limited incentive to increase longer haul flying in favor of rather driving yield up..
6) The new terminal is great, but new terminals typically reduce service initially as they drive up airline costs which pushes airlines away. The sweet spot on costs of a new terminal usually take about 7 years to kick in.
 
stlgph
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:51 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
France and maybe parts of the US would seem the obvious place for additional flights. Quebec is beautiful and an attractive tourist destination, so seasonal flights to some big American cities might be viable--maybe Boston and Washington?


The problem with Quebec City is it's just too damned expensive to fly there from a number of places. From NYC, if I wanted to go nonstop, it was often $700+ for a one hour flight, sometimes even approaching the thousand dollar range. That's for a nonstop flight. In the winter off season - outside of Carnival and the annual hockey tournament, etc.

Going through Montreal was usually a better priced option....prices $200-$300 sometimes, but in the summers, could get up to $500+. Quebec can be pricey enough already as it is and by the time you add up a bag or two and transfers to/from the airport and/or a rental car and then parking for said car - it was just worth it to drive and would always see a number of plates from the New England states, where people just probably decided it was close enough (albeit not a "straight shot") to drive rather than fly in.

It'd be interesting to see the tourism breakdown of visitors to Quebec from parts of the U.S. As I recall in speaking with someone a few years ago in the office for the winter Carnival, it was some sort of insane percentage (like 85%) from the U.S. visitors coming from the New England region.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Dominion301
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:19 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
France and maybe parts of the US would seem the obvious place for additional flights. Quebec is beautiful and an attractive tourist destination, so seasonal flights to some big American cities might be viable--maybe Boston and Washington?


I can definitely see YQB-BOS on DL happening once DL have the room at BOS to make BOS their SEA-east. YQB's a spoke for BOS that involves virtually no backtracking. YQB used to have BOS service, but hasn't for probably a decade.

TerminalD wrote:
I'm not sure you can just say "the airport is underserved, fire the management" as the unreleased report apparently says. It's a lot more complicated than that. These are air carrier decisions. Sure you can try to convince them, but at the end of the day, the decision ultimately lies with airlines as to how much service YQB has.

Challenges:
6) The new terminal is great, but new terminals typically reduce service initially as they drive up airline costs which pushes airlines away. The sweet spot on costs of a new terminal usually take about 7 years to kick in.


The thing is though, YQB's traffic growth the past few years has been very good overall: https://www.aeroportdequebec.com/en/about/statistics. They'll probably not do as well in 2019 with WS' service reductions at YQB.

I don't know what they're complaining about since the YQB Airport Authority have managed to double traffic at the airport since 2007. They don't nearly underperform in the way that they used to.
 
Noise
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:25 pm

Problems with YQB:
1. Lack of cultural and economic links to the rest of the continent. To be honest, most of Quebec City's economic and business links are with the other communities inside the province of Quebec. Not many business links with, say, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Calgary, Winnipeg or Vancouver.
2. Proximity to YUL. Yes, some people just make the drive down Highway 20 to catch a flight out of YUL.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:15 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
maybe parts of the US would seem the obvious place for additional flights.


Yes, it's part of the plan too.
 
stlgph
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:28 pm

Noise wrote:
Problems with YQB:
1. Lack of cultural and economic links to the rest of the continent. To be honest, most of Quebec City's economic and business links are with the other communities inside the province of Quebec. Not many business links with, say, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Calgary, Winnipeg or Vancouver.
2. Proximity to YUL. Yes, some people just make the drive down Highway 20 to catch a flight out of YUL.


Regarding #2 - that is a very easy drive. And one can just fly into YUL for less than YQB and hop on the hourly (or more) Orleans Express bus and just take it right on up to the heart of Quebec. I've done that, too.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ac33e
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:31 pm

What is this joke? YQB-China flights?

What are the PPDEW's for YQB-TYO? 5... that is after 200% stimulation from the new YUL-NRT flight. YQB should be happy about AC expansion in YUL for connecting passengers and now A319's flying to YYZ instead of turboprops.
 
yeginleduc
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:26 pm

Air Canada Rouge still isn't mainline AC. I mean its nice to have the 319 but its still AC Rouge.
 
Boeing744
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:00 pm

Obviously China is ridiculous.

That said, I think YQB could probably support a year-round Paris flight on a narrowbody like a 7M8 with AC or A321LR with TS. I also think a summer-fall flight to LHR/LGW, FRA or KEF (for connections) on a narrowbody could do OK with tourism in both directions.

I know WestJet does a seasonal YYC flight, but I am surprised there is not a year round YYC or YVR flight on either WestJet or Rouge.

I thought about LGA but it seems YQB does not have preclearance.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:25 am

Boeing744 wrote:
That said, I think YQB could probably support a year-round Paris flight on a narrowbody like a 7M8 with AC or A321LR with TS. I also think a summer-fall flight to LHR/LGW, FRA or KEF (for connections) on a narrowbody could do OK with tourism in both directions.


I absolutely think they could, and I'm somewhat surprised AC hasn't tried it already. The demand between YUL and CDG is absolutely gigantic, and at least some of that must be coming from other parts of the province. There is also a fast-growing and relatively affluent expat community from France in Quebec these days, and though most of them are in Montreal, some are in other parts of the province. That's another good market for flights.

For tourism, YQB just needs a combination of more marketing and more affordable flights. It's one of the most interesting cities on the continent to visit, and certainly in the tourist areas, Americans will have no trouble getting by in English. Many Americans drive up from New England because the flights are simply unaffordable. It's hard to sell New Yorkers on taking a trip to Quebec City when they can fly to Paris for not much more. Flight costs are a huge problem for Canadian tourism generally, outside the biggest cities. Atlantic Canada would have a much stronger tourism industry if flights from places like NYC didn't routinely cost over $1000.
 
heathrow
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:52 am

The thought of Bill 101 having any influence in this matter is laughable.

While obviously international expansion benefits the entire community, I agree with a statement made in another thread that the public transit link needs to be established.

L'ancienne Lorette is quite a distance from the city centre, and a taxi can cost a fare share if you're not prepared for it.
 
samuelx88
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:01 pm

The real problem is that even though the economy of Québec City keeps increasing, and that we have record number of tourists every years, the number of direct destination is decreasing. Here's a list of some of the flights YQB lost:

-Edmonton ws 2008
-Halifax porter 2009
-JFK Delta 2017
-Boston NWA 2007
-Washington and Detroit UAL 2013
-Paris Orly, Nantes, Bordeaux 2011
-Marseilles AT 2012
-London 2005

That's all I can remember
 
Dominion301
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:06 pm

Well on the governance side, Transport Canada have just given their seal of approval to YQB: https://www.lelezard.com/communique-18616794.html

On the air service side, despite the reduced WS services, YQB did just gain a seasonal to ORD on AA.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:46 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
The real problem is that even though the economy of Québec City keeps increasing, and that we have record number of tourists every years, the number of direct destination is decreasing. Here's a list of some of the flights YQB lost:
That's all I can remember


The thing is, a lot of these lasted only 1 season

-Edmonton ws 2008 <-- wasn't this a YYZ same-plane 1-stop? WS don't really do those anymore.
-Halifax porter 2009 <-- lasted 1 summer

-JFK Delta 2017
-Boston NWA 2007
-Washington and Detroit UAL 2013

For all the transborder losses, that happened everywhere in Canada, except at YUL, YYZ, YYC and YVR. Capacity is slowly being added back as evidenced by AA's announcement of seasonal YQB-ORD.

-Paris Orly, Nantes, Bordeaux 2011
-Marseilles AT 2012

TS' retaliation for Corsair adding a weekly YQB stop on their YUL-ORY flight for a couple of summers. With a couple of YYZ-YUL-XXX exceptions, TS don't do these 1-stops anymore. They now do the 737/320 feeder flights.

-London 2005

Canadian Affair. They expanded quite a bit that year. Also added YOW-MAN for 2005. Ended with Transat's acquisition of the tour operator and the dropping of the Thomas Cook 175 seat 757s that were used. Within a few years after the acquisition, TS ended all YOW, YHZ and YEG transatlantic flights.

YQB's also gained several destinations since that time, but apart from YYC, they're small routes to places like Kuujjuaq or they're sun routes.
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:52 pm

Well this is a little awkward going into Routes
 
samuelx88
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:39 pm

But even YYT has a direct flight with London. I'm pretty sure that there are more British tourists in Quebec city than in St. John's and the opposite too. St. John's could get many daily connection to YUL or YHZ instead of a direct flight and that would do the same. I can't really believe that there's not enough demand for a weekly flight between YQB and London. And same for Frankfurt to Whitehorse. I'm pretty sure that there is more people travelling from Frankfurt to Quebec city than to Whitehorse. They do have a weekly direct flight and YQB doesn't.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:33 pm

heathrow wrote:
The thought of Bill 101 having any influence in this matter is laughable.

While obviously international expansion benefits the entire community, I agree with a statement made in another thread that the public transit link needs to be established.

L'ancienne Lorette is quite a distance from the city centre, and a taxi can cost a fare share if you're not prepared for it.

If you think separatism hasn’t impacted PQ’s global economic position, check the relative populations of Quebec and Ontario in 1976 and today.

Everyone is trying to come up with a different reason why a city with a metro population of 800,000 has so little airservice. It is staring you right in the face. Tourism alone will not sustain air service. You need business traffic of which there is next to none to the rest of North America. There is not a single city approaching the population of YQB which is so socially and economically isolated from the rest of North America.
Last edited by Bobloblaw on Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
stlgph
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:37 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
But even YYT has a direct flight with London. I'm pretty sure that there are more British tourists in Quebec city than in St. John's and the opposite too. St. John's could get many daily connection to YUL or YHZ instead of a direct flight and that would do the same. I can't really believe that there's not enough demand for a weekly flight between YQB and London. And same for Frankfurt to Whitehorse. I'm pretty sure that there is more people travelling from Frankfurt to Quebec city than to Whitehorse. They do have a weekly direct flight and YQB doesn't.


While some of the points you make are true - a few other things which come to mind

Quebec City bills itself as the "closest you can get to Europe" in North America. While Quebec City is lovely and one of my favorite places ever, no sense in being from Europe and taking a vacation to somewhere where you can be close to Europe :)

The cruise market probably helps a little bit with travel in and out of Atlantic Canada to/from the states and Europe. In the grand scheme of things, for cruises headed down the St Lawrence, Quebec is a mid-point stop and many probably keep on going down to Montreal and end their trips there, and perhaps begin their trips there.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:01 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
Everyone is trying to come up with a different reason why a city with a metro population of 800,000 has so little airservice. It is staring you right in the face. Tourism alone will not sustain air service. You need business traffic of which there is next to none to the rest of North America. There is not a single city approaching the population of YQB which is so socially and economically isolated from the rest of North America.


Quebec obviously faced difficulties from various political issues, particularly the two referenda. But that has really dramatically changed in recent years as the threat has pretty much disappeared. As has been mentioned, Quebec City has close to the lowest unemployment rate in Canada. And if you think the Province of Quebec is somehow more economically isolated from the rest of North America than the rest of Canada, that's dead wrong. Many of Canada's most successful international companies are from Quebec. Alimentation Couche Tard is one of the biggest convenience retailers in the United States--no mean feat in such a competitive market.

I think you might also be massively overestimating the number of flights that most cities of 800,000 people get in the United States--especially ones a couple hours from a major international airport. How much air service does Bakersfield get? New Haven? Allentown? Baton Rouge? Dayton? Those are Quebec City's peers in terms of population, and every single one of them has less air traffic than YQB--in some cases by a lot. The Piedmont Triad in SC has more than twice as many people as the Quebec City area, and it moves fewer people through its airport.

As for the idea that tourism alone won't sustain air service, I think the airport operators at places like JAC, EGE would be surprised--let alone places like PUJ.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:50 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
heathrow wrote:
The thought of Bill 101 having any influence in this matter is laughable.

While obviously international expansion benefits the entire community, I agree with a statement made in another thread that the public transit link needs to be established.

L'ancienne Lorette is quite a distance from the city centre, and a taxi can cost a fare share if you're not prepared for it.

If you think separatism hasn’t impacted PQ’s global economic position, check the relative populations of Quebec and Ontario in 1976 and today.

Everyone is trying to come up with a different reason why a city with a metro population of 800,000 has so little airservice. It is staring you right in the face. Tourism alone will not sustain air service. You need business traffic of which there is next to none to the rest of North America. There is not a single city approaching the population of YQB which is so socially and economically isolated from the rest of North America.


So Québec should have as a goal to become one more random city like the continent already has dozens of ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
runway23
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:03 pm

YYZLGA wrote:

Quebec obviously faced difficulties from various political issues, particularly the two referenda. But that has really dramatically changed in recent years as the threat has pretty much disappeared. As has been mentioned, Quebec City has close to the lowest unemployment rate in Canada. And if you think the Province of Quebec is somehow more economically isolated from the rest of North America than the rest of Canada, that's dead wrong. Many of Canada's most successful international companies are from Quebec. Alimentation Couche Tard is one of the biggest convenience retailers in the United States--no mean feat in such a competitive market.


Taking your example of Alimentation Couche Tard they are based in Laval, so actually in the Montreal area. And that’s pretty much the same story for any major company HQ’d in QC they are all in or around Montreal.

Whilst Quebec City is a wonderful town to visit it lives off the fact that the government is seated there. Even YQB-YOW can only sustain a single daily Q100 flight.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:20 pm

Perhaps Jetlines, if they actually generate an asm, and Flair should set up a hub in Quebec City and develop all kinds of intra Canada routes?

WS used to operate YQB - FLL in the winter and the loads were in the 90% range according to Form 41 data. WS cancelled the flights, and airlines don’t cancel profitable flights.

Low yield junk, and that says a lot given WJ’s stage length adjusted casm over that 1,500 mile sector, when their average stage length is barely 900 miles. When the low cost operator walks away from a route, you can be pretty sure it’s a financial dog.

I suspect there’s a huge FFP burn component out of YQB as all the points earned on full fare, tax payer funded, bureaucrat filled flights from YQB to YUL, YOW and YYZ are burned to sun destinations in Florida and parts of the Caribbean and Europe in the summer.

WS experimented with YYC - YQB a few summers ago with a few flights a week. I’m not sure it’s back in 2019. The harsh reality for those who don’t know the Canadian market is that compared to the RoC, there’s very little community of interest / business connections / friends and family travel between Quebec City / northern Quebec and virtually the rest of the geographically distant Canada.

You don’t see that phenomena in the US, (and keep in mind Quebec has roughly 30% of the Canadian population). Everyone travels everywhere in the US.

That’s why it’s truly laughable when Jetballs suggests to potential investors, as they are currently doing, that Canada will have the same ULCC penetration as the US. Not when 30% of the population has very little reason to travel outside Quebec, but within Canada, together with traditional tight seasonality issues to winter sun destinations.
 
AWNP
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:12 pm

A ULCC in YQB is a non starter unless they did something about their asinine $45 AIF.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:00 am

AWNP wrote:
A ULCC in YQB is a non starter unless they did something about their asinine $45 AIF.


Now that would go a long way to explaining the supposed paucity of flights (although, again, I think if you compare the city to many similar places across North America, it's not doing all that badly). I love lavish airport facilities as much as the next person, but there are a lot of people who would much rather fly out of a warehouse if they could save $40 on their flight.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:41 pm

runway23 wrote:
YYZLGA wrote:

Quebec obviously faced difficulties from various political issues, particularly the two referenda. But that has really dramatically changed in recent years as the threat has pretty much disappeared. As has been mentioned, Quebec City has close to the lowest unemployment rate in Canada. And if you think the Province of Quebec is somehow more economically isolated from the rest of North America than the rest of Canada, that's dead wrong. Many of Canada's most successful international companies are from Quebec. Alimentation Couche Tard is one of the biggest convenience retailers in the United States--no mean feat in such a competitive market.


Taking your example of Alimentation Couche Tard they are based in Laval, so actually in the Montreal area. And that’s pretty much the same story for any major company HQ’d in QC they are all in or around Montreal.

Whilst Quebec City is a wonderful town to visit it lives off the fact that the government is seated there. Even YQB-YOW can only sustain a single daily Q100 flight.


Actually it’s 2 daily on weekdays but I get your point. AC charges sky high fares on the route as the only “competitive” alternative to AC is a +2 hour backtrack to YYZ on WS. I’m sure if there were a true competitor with a nonstop flight, fares would be more in line with YOW-YYZ, which is only a slightly shorter distance, instead of the routinely 50-100% higher fares.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:28 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
But even YYT has a direct flight with London. I'm pretty sure that there are more British tourists in Quebec city than in St. John's and the opposite too. St. John's could get many daily connection to YUL or YHZ instead of a direct flight and that would do the same. I can't really believe that there's not enough demand for a weekly flight between YQB and London. And same for Frankfurt to Whitehorse. I'm pretty sure that there is more people travelling from Frankfurt to Quebec city than to Whitehorse. They do have a weekly direct flight and YQB doesn't.


Whitehorse has the lure of The North and gold rush history. What can travelers from FRA find in Quebec City that they can't find within 5 hours drive time of FRA?

When someone posts a lament 'Why doesn't XXX have more flights in North America?' they're arguing that the market isn't working right. How else would you allocate flights within an open market? The U.S. has forty years of experience with deregulation. Open Skies with Canada has a substantial history. Open Skies with Mexico is new. Deregulation has worked just fine for sizable metro areas, certainly anything with a population greater than half a million. There are ~20 'major' carriers in the U.S. and Canada that can operate from YQB today. Go for it -- explain what so many of them fail to grasp about the YQB market. It's not AIFs - AIF impacts short-hauls where it's viable to drive, and has a small price effect on total demand. You're not driving YQB-CDG.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:46 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
It's not AIFs - AIF impacts short-hauls where it's viable to drive, and has a small price effect on total demand. You're not driving YQB-CDG.


No, but you are driving to YUL and flying from there to CDG.
 
westaust
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:59 pm

Or in the case of YQB-CDG, if you fly AF you get free bus shuttle from/to Quebec City to YUL included in your ticket price (same from YOW)
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:06 pm

westaust wrote:
Or in the case of YQB-CDG, if you fly AF you get free bus shuttle from/to Quebec City to YUL included in your ticket price (same from YOW)

Interesting... AF doesn't even do that at their home turf (Paris): if you transfer between ORY & CDG (even on a single ticker), you have to pick up your bags, pay for the shuttle, then recheck your bags at the other airport...
 
nikeherc
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Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:33 pm

The Quebec metropolitan area is similar in size to both the Columbia and Charleston metro areas in South Carolina. Charleston is a major tourist destination and has much better air service than Columbia. Until recently, neither had international service. Charleston recently had LHR service on BA announced and you would have thought that the aviation industry had gone mad (at least according to A.Net.) Columbia is about the same distance from CHS and CLT as YQB is from YUL. They've probably got the air service they can expect.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
slider
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Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:45 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
Everyone is trying to come up with a different reason why a city with a metro population of 800,000 has so little airservice. It is staring you right in the face. Tourism alone will not sustain air service. You need business traffic of which there is next to none to the rest of North America. There is not a single city approaching the population of YQB which is so socially and economically isolated from the rest of North America.


Quebec obviously faced difficulties from various political issues, particularly the two referenda. But that has really dramatically changed in recent years as the threat has pretty much disappeared. As has been mentioned, Quebec City has close to the lowest unemployment rate in Canada. And if you think the Province of Quebec is somehow more economically isolated from the rest of North America than the rest of Canada, that's dead wrong. Many of Canada's most successful international companies are from Quebec. Alimentation Couche Tard is one of the biggest convenience retailers in the United States--no mean feat in such a competitive market.

I think you might also be massively overestimating the number of flights that most cities of 800,000 people get in the United States--especially ones a couple hours from a major international airport. How much air service does Bakersfield get? New Haven? Allentown? Baton Rouge? Dayton? Those are Quebec City's peers in terms of population, and every single one of them has less air traffic than YQB--in some cases by a lot. The Piedmont Triad in SC has more than twice as many people as the Quebec City area, and it moves fewer people through its airport.

As for the idea that tourism alone won't sustain air service, I think the airport operators at places like JAC, EGE would be surprised--let alone places like PUJ.


I think your comparisons are not terribly valid. BTR is an hour from MSY. DAY is an hour to CVG and a little over that to IND. New Haven? Come on, that's down the road from Hartford about 40 minutes, and so on. Bakersfield may be the only geographically pertinent example you cite. Truth is, Quebec City is isolated, to Bob's point, physically and culturally.

And tourism driven ski destinations like JAC, EGE, ASE, etc, are always going to have an advantage over YQB.
 
nikeherc
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:40 pm

Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:20 pm

slider wrote:
YYZLGA wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
Everyone is trying to come up with a different reason why a city with a metro population of 800,000 has so little airservice. It is staring you right in the face. Tourism alone will not sustain air service. You need business traffic of which there is next to none to the rest of North America. There is not a single city approaching the population of YQB which is so socially and economically isolated from the rest of North America.


Quebec obviously faced difficulties from various political issues, particularly the two referenda. But that has really dramatically changed in recent years as the threat has pretty much disappeared. As has been mentioned, Quebec City has close to the lowest unemployment rate in Canada. And if you think the Province of Quebec is somehow more economically isolated from the rest of North America than the rest of Canada, that's dead wrong. Many of Canada's most successful international companies are from Quebec. Alimentation Couche Tard is one of the biggest convenience retailers in the United States--no mean feat in such a competitive market.

I think you might also be massively overestimating the number of flights that most cities of 800,000 people get in the United States--especially ones a couple hours from a major international airport. How much air service does Bakersfield get? New Haven? Allentown? Baton Rouge? Dayton? Those are Quebec City's peers in terms of population, and every single one of them has less air traffic than YQB--in some cases by a lot. The Piedmont Triad in SC has more than twice as many people as the Quebec City area, and it moves fewer people through its airport.

As for the idea that tourism alone won't sustain air service, I think the airport operators at places like JAC, EGE would be surprised--let alone places like PUJ.


I think your comparisons are not terribly valid. BTR is an hour from MSY. DAY is an hour to CVG and a little over that to IND. New Haven? Come on, that's down the road from Hartford about 40 minutes, and so on. Bakersfield may be the only geographically pertinent example you cite. Truth is, Quebec City is isolated, to Bob's point, physically and culturally.

And tourism driven ski destinations like JAC, EGE, ASE, etc, are always going to have an advantage over YQB.


Just for reference, the Piedmont Triad is in North Carolina.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Q

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:16 pm

slider wrote:
I think your comparisons are not terribly valid. BTR is an hour from MSY. DAY is an hour to CVG and a little over that to IND. New Haven? Come on, that's down the road from Hartford about 40 minutes, and so on. Bakersfield may be the only geographically pertinent example you cite. Truth is, Quebec City is isolated, to Bob's point, physically and culturally.

And tourism driven ski destinations like JAC, EGE, ASE, etc, are always going to have an advantage over YQB.


My point is that Quebec City's air service--basically the same or more than that enjoyed by most comparably sized North American cities, despite being a reasonable drive from another major international airport--is not remotely a basis for a claim that Quebec City is the most socially and economically isolated city in North America.

On the latter point, I was responding to the claim that "tourism alone will not sustain air service." Clearly those examples, and many others, belie that statement.

nikeherc wrote:
Just for reference, the Piedmont Triad is in North Carolina.


Of course you're right. I wrote too quickly!

nikeherc wrote:
The Quebec metropolitan area is similar in size to both the Columbia and Charleston metro areas in South Carolina. Charleston is a major tourist destination and has much better air service than Columbia. Until recently, neither had international service. Charleston recently had LHR service on BA announced and you would have thought that the aviation industry had gone mad (at least according to A.Net.) Columbia is about the same distance from CHS and CLT as YQB is from YUL. They've probably got the air service they can expect.


This is another perfect example. Columbia is similar in size to Quebec City and it has less air traffic. It's a similar distance to CHS as YQB to YUL, and CHS has a fraction of the options available at YUL (~4 million vs ~20 million pax per year).
 
smallmj
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm

Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:01 pm

I went to Quebec City last May. I really wanted to fly there, but there are no direct flights from YHZ or YQM (I live almost halfway in between). Once I factored in the connection time in YUL and getting to the airport early I decided that I might as well drive it. If there were a reasonably priced direct flight I probably would have taken it. How many others like me are there?
 
samuelx88
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:16 pm

Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:36 pm

The former vice president of YYC, stephan poirier, was elected today as the new CEO of YQB. I hope that he will be able to develop the airport and bring new flights to YQB to Paris, London and Vancouver. Since he is from WS's biggest hub, YYC, I guess that he will be able to convince westjet to attempt again an expension in Québec.

https://www.skiesmag.com/press-releases ... s-results/
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:37 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
The former vice president of YYC, stephan poirier, was elected today as the new CEO of YQB. I hope that he will be able to develop the airport and bring new flights to YQB to Paris, London and Vancouver. Since he is from WS's biggest hub, YYC, I guess that he will be able to convince westjet to attempt again an expension in Québec.

https://www.skiesmag.com/press-releases ... s-results/


Very likely, especially given WestJet's huge success in Quebec. I can name a few markets where WS has been so succesful, they decided to exit because they were so profitable (YUL-BOS, YUL-MCO, YUL-YVR in winter).
They might as well use their 789s to operate YQB-CDG/LGW, wouldn't that make AC smile.
 
klm617
Posts: 4131
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:48 pm

DTW-YQB was served before so there is no reason why Delta with the new WS agreement can't restart this flight.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 4131
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Special commity report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:51 pm

samuelx88 wrote:
The real problem is that even though the economy of Québec City keeps increasing, and that we have record number of tourists every years, the number of direct destination is decreasing. Here's a list of some of the flights YQB lost:

-Edmonton ws 2008
-Halifax porter 2009
-JFK Delta 2017
-Boston NWA 2007
-Washington and Detroit UAL 2013
-Paris Orly, Nantes, Bordeaux 2011
-Marseilles AT 2012
-London 2005

That's all I can remember


delete
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Special committee report on lack of flights leads to resignations from YQB board

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:57 am

klm617 wrote:
DTW-YQB was served before so there is no reason why Delta with the new WS agreement can't restart this flight.


The proposed DL/WS joint venture has not yet been approved by Canadian or American regulatory authorities.

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