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zululima
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:21 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:47 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the 738 has the range to go HNL-DAL nonstop. The trip is listed at about 3800 miles and the range for that plane is only about 3400 miles.


You were wrong about everything in that post.

1. The trip was filed at 3394nm planned (it's only 3297nm direct)
2. This is basically a ferry flight, and eastbound at that, so still-air range is going to be shorter.
3. Ferry range is listed as over 5000nm by Boeing
4. Why would you even assume WN would fly beyond the aircraft's technical abilities? The plane has even been en-route since you posted.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
zuckie13
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:56 pm

Eindhoven wrote:
Does anybody know if they plan to fly ONT-HNL too? WN does fly to ONT. They fly HNL from OAK instead of SFO, why not ONT instead of LAX?


I wouldn't expect that. They chose OAK because it has more connections than SFO. Same goes for LAX vs other airports in the LA area.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4495
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:00 pm

This is a big deal for WN, the employees, customers and anyone else with an interest in seeing WN serve the islands. We don’t care that others have been doing this for a long time. We are not celebrating that a 737-800 could make it over water. This is a big step towards a reality that has been highly anticipated for years. I mean come on, it’s been talked about on this forum repeatedly for the past 15 years! And I didn’t realize until I got to Hawaii but the locals are very excited. Everyone here has been so nice and so excited to see that WN is finally here.

So if you don’t think this is exciting then just move along. Stop trolling this thread and social media to bring everyone down.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
WeatherPilot
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:44 pm

zululima wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the 738 has the range to go HNL-DAL nonstop. The trip is listed at about 3800 miles and the range for that plane is only about 3400 miles.


You were wrong about everything in that post.

1. The trip was filed at 3394nm planned (it's only 3297nm direct)
2. This is basically a ferry flight, and eastbound at that, so still-air range is going to be shorter.
3. Ferry range is listed as over 5000nm by Boeing
4. Why would you even assume WN would fly beyond the aircraft's technical abilities? The plane has even been en-route since you posted.


I asked for clarification not to be insulted.

FR24 has the the flight at 3796 miles, Ok?

I know the difference between a ferry flight and a regular scheduled full pax flight. I wasn’t sure if this plane was configured with center wing tanks for extended range or something else. I also wasn’t sure if a proving flight needed to be on a route that was being pursued for future scheduled service by WN to get certification. Hence the question. I should have clarified I guess.

Your last couple of sentences were unnecessary.
 
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jaybird
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:23 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:46 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
This is a big deal for WN, the employees, customers and anyone else with an interest in seeing WN serve the islands. We don’t care that others have been doing this for a long time. We are not celebrating that a 737-800 could make it over water. This is a big step towards a reality that has been highly anticipated for years. I mean come on, it’s been talked about on this forum repeatedly for the past 15 years! And I didn’t realize until I got to Hawaii but the locals are very excited. Everyone here has been so nice and so excited to see that WN is finally here.

So if you don’t think this is exciting then just move along. Stop trolling this thread and social media to bring everyone down.


A nice aspect of the TV coverage is reports I've been seeing on KITV/ABC. Many of the local folks - who have been working for Southwest on the mainland - are now coming back to Hawaii to work. It's great to hear about folks moving BACK to Hawaii instead of all the stories we usually hear about people leaving Hawaii for jobs on the mainland.

Thanks for bringing them home, Southwest! :-)
 
barney captain
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:58 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
zululima wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the 738 has the range to go HNL-DAL nonstop. The trip is listed at about 3800 miles and the range for that plane is only about 3400 miles.


You were wrong about everything in that post.

1. The trip was filed at 3394nm planned (it's only 3297nm direct)
2. This is basically a ferry flight, and eastbound at that, so still-air range is going to be shorter.
3. Ferry range is listed as over 5000nm by Boeing
4. Why would you even assume WN would fly beyond the aircraft's technical abilities? The plane has even been en-route since you posted.


I asked for clarification not to be insulted.

FR24 has the the flight at 3796 miles, Ok?

I know the difference between a ferry flight and a regular scheduled full pax flight. I wasn’t sure if this plane was configured with center wing tanks for extended range or something else. I also wasn’t sure if a proving flight needed to be on a route that was being pursued for future scheduled service by WN to get certification. Hence the question. I should have clarified I guess.

Your last couple of sentences were unnecessary.


The aircraft is a standard issue etops -800, so no additional tanks. Eastbound with only 20 pax, the flight is no issue. :)
Southeast Of Disorder
 
barney captain
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:00 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
This is a big deal for WN, the employees, customers and anyone else with an interest in seeing WN serve the islands. We don’t care that others have been doing this for a long time. We are not celebrating that a 737-800 could make it over water. This is a big step towards a reality that has been highly anticipated for years. I mean come on, it’s been talked about on this forum repeatedly for the past 15 years! And I didn’t realize until I got to Hawaii but the locals are very excited. Everyone here has been so nice and so excited to see that WN is finally here.

So if you don’t think this is exciting then just move along. Stop trolling this thread and social media to bring everyone down.


Image
Southeast Of Disorder
 
alggag
Posts: 362
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:34 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:28 am

Eindhoven wrote:
Does anybody know if they plan to fly ONT-HNL too? WN does fly to ONT. They fly HNL from OAK instead of SFO, why not ONT instead of LAX?


OAK is their main station in the Bay Area even though they serve SFO/OAK/SJC. In LA area LAX is their biggest station so LAX makes more sense there.

Also, regarding flying nonstop HNL-DAL in addition to the plane being lightly loaded they have the luxury of having a tailwind along with being able to divert just about anywhere once they cross the California coast if the need arises.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5209
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:14 am

zuckie13 wrote:
Eindhoven wrote:
Does anybody know if they plan to fly ONT-HNL too? WN does fly to ONT. They fly HNL from OAK instead of SFO, why not ONT instead of LAX?


I wouldn't expect that. They chose OAK because it has more connections than SFO. Same goes for LAX vs other airports in the LA area.


It hasn’t been announced, but I suspect WN knows what level of passengers they attract from ONT, they know the PDEW which most is most likely lost to LAX. I would not rule it out at all.

Just maybe WN will not try to battle it out at LAX with everyone else & because of their huge presence in the LA basin, draw those passengers to ONT already lost to LAX back to ONT, or even add SNA or BUR if the MAX 8 makes it to the Islands.

Another thread on this site is indicating ONT just hit 5m pax last year. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1414897
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
barney captain
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:20 am

It was mentioned that LAX is not in the cards to feed HI. Market saturation and the lack of gate space were mentioned as reasons.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 671
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:13 am

Does anybody know if they plan to fly ONT-HNL too? WN does fly to ONT. They fly HNL from OAK instead of SFO, why not ONT instead of LAX?


No news that I'm aware of, and SNA and ONT are my preferred airports. I do know that ONT has been mentioned as a dark horse for service by Hawaiian using A321s; they flew DC-10s to the islands from there back in the nineties. As for Southwest, I suspect the issue would be connecting traffic. They'll get a lot more connecting traffic from SAN and LAX than ONT, for example. I wouldn't be surprised to see some seasonal service from ONT to Hawaii at some point from either airline, as the Inland Empire and eastern Orange County can support such flights (in my unscientific view), but probably nothing in the near term.
 
Fargo
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:34 am

barney captain wrote:
It was mentioned that LAX is not in the cards to feed HI. Market saturation and the lack of gate space were mentioned as reasons.


Never? They'll have to eventually. Too big of a market not to serve.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1560
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:01 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Anything I'm missing?

AS doesn't do interisland. WN will. To locals, that's huge.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:12 am

Fargo wrote:
barney captain wrote:
It was mentioned that LAX is not in the cards to feed HI. Market saturation and the lack of gate space were mentioned as reasons.


Never? They'll have to eventually. Too big of a market not to serve.


Never is a long time ;) but there is nothing planned.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Fargo
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 am

barney captain wrote:
Fargo wrote:
barney captain wrote:
It was mentioned that LAX is not in the cards to feed HI. Market saturation and the lack of gate space were mentioned as reasons.


Never? They'll have to eventually. Too big of a market not to serve.


Never is a long time ;) but there is nothing planned.


Honestly, I'll be shocked if you guys aren't doing LAX-HNL (or another area airport like BUR or ONT) within the next decade. Los Angeles is just too big not to serve Hawaii.
 
Fargo
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:23 am

Question.

What exactly was done on the test flight? Did they run various tests/simulations for 5 hours straight or was there any downtime?
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3305
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:27 am

cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:
airplaneboy wrote:

As this is an issue in Orlando, where DisneyWorld is located (you know, the place where many families with small children travel to...) and WN has had the largest marketshare for years ((sarcasm))


Except MCO is a pure price market and the flights are relative short for WN to and from MCO vs HI. The Hawaii customer is different than the MCO crowd. The trip to Hawaii may be their only trip there in a lifetime.

WN is going to need to evolve on the service end to do well in HI markets.
I'm failing to see how the WN product is all that much different than AS, who seems to Note to the islands.

It's Not going to be any better, It's probably not going to be even Different. It's just NEXT!! I see HNL bound 777's 757's NS 767'S ALL OVER the SAFO terminals when I go out on trip. The flights are full and I just don't see where WN might make that much of a difference in the market. They're only a difference because they haven't been there Before, Heck! I once took a flight to Hawaii with Herb Kelleher sitting 2 seats over from me. The flight attendants brought him and his wife all kinds of stuff telling him "we know you can't get this on Southwest,,But " He ate and Drank like a King! So? Its BOUT TIME! Now I wonder how it's going to be in the near future when the majors go back to full Catering in their attempt to "One up" each other... It's coming!! Make no mistake about that!
 
barney captain
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:48 am

Fargo wrote:
Question.

What exactly was done on the test flight? Did they run various tests/simulations for 5 hours straight or was there any downtime?


The flight from Oakland to Honolulu demonstrated our long range navigation and communication procedures to the FAA.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3305
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:03 am

WeatherPilot wrote:
zululima wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the 738 has the range to go HNL-DAL nonstop. The trip is listed at about 3800 miles and the range for that plane is only about 3400 miles.


You were wrong about everything in that post.

1. The trip was filed at 3394nm planned (it's only 3297nm direct)
2. This is basically a ferry flight, and eastbound at that, so still-air range is going to be shorter.
3. Ferry range is listed as over 5000nm by Boeing
4. Why would you even assume WN would fly beyond the aircraft's technical abilities? The plane has even been en-route since you posted.


I asked for clarification not to be insulted.

FR24 has the the flight at 3796 miles, Ok?

I know the difference between a ferry flight and a regular scheduled full pax flight. I wasn’t sure if this plane was configured with center wing tanks for extended range or something else. I also wasn’t sure if a proving flight needed to be on a route that was being pursued for future scheduled service by WN to get certification. Hence the question. I should have clarified I guess.

Your last couple of sentences were unnecessary.

If you're on a Proving run? Your airplane has to be capable in EVERY aspect, Fuel, Navigation Gear, Overwater equipped, everything. and you can bet the ETOPS airplanes are going to for the most part be segregated as ETOPS is not only the cabin and navigation equipment, But other mission critical parts as well.
 
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BMWdrvr75
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:23 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:21 am

scoping2008 wrote:
nc3rd wrote:
Ridiculous hype doing what other airlines have already been doing for decades. Welcome to Hawaii, you're late, and not really needed.


Exactly. Southwest has done a great job marketing because local news is covering the test flight as well.

But, I see several AS 737s fly over Kihei everyday preparing to land at OGG. This isn't some remarkable achievement.


Ha Ha, I beg to differ the folks at Love Field think it is.....just like when they received the MAX......
Last edited by BMWdrvr75 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
We Make Flying Easy......Come fly the Silver Bird........Something Special in the Air......
 
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BMWdrvr75
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:23 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:24 am

scoping2008 wrote:
nc3rd wrote:
Ridiculous hype doing what other airlines have already been doing for decades. Welcome to Hawaii, you're late, and not really needed.


Exactly. Southwest has done a great job marketing because local news is covering the test flight as well.

But, I see several AS 737s fly over Kihei everyday preparing to land at OGG. This isn't some remarkable achievement.


Ha Ha, I beg to differ the folks at Love Field think it is.....just like when they received the MAX......Big doings for those folks.....Is this the pinnacle of WN?
We Make Flying Easy......Come fly the Silver Bird........Something Special in the Air......
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:31 am

777Mech wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Again, I do not see them doing any validations flights without the cabin fully staffed and maybe 40 to fifty seat fillers for he FA's to work with. Probably at least one in flight medical emergency along a cabin prep for ditching exercise. I assume (?) SW has done some special FA training for this kind of in flight. Might not be much medical, but the cabin prep for ditching can be significant. Don't know but I doubt that SWA has a cabin ditching sim?

An example of FAA oversight. North America to EGLL on a 777 ETOPS validation flight. Diverted into EINN and the engine required a bore scope for a further service sign off. No 777/RR bore scope tool could be found, and the airline had to charter an airplane and ferry one over to EINN from EGLL so as to pass the validation process. These FAA folks have a wicked imagination at times and if it's the FAA guy I'm thinking of, he will give you fits before it's over. Expect the unexpected best describes how this works.


The FAA will not allow pax on any validation flights. The FA training/certification is satisfied in yearly quals.


Except this was fully staffed with flight attendants plus an extra flight attendant and other employees.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2018
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:38 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
And I didn’t realize until I got to Hawaii but the locals are very excited.


My friends that live in Maui are thrilled. I sent a screenshot of the outbound flight to our group text of ~10 and got about a dozen excited replies.

If anyone here says they "[have] a home on the islands" and "haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii," I'd suggest they leave their little insulated Haole neighborhood and go find some locals that go to neighboring islands regularly. Locals love complaining about Hawaiian.
 
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BMWdrvr75
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:23 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:04 am

chrisair wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
And I didn’t realize until I got to Hawaii but the locals are very excited.


My friends that live in Maui are thrilled. I sent a screenshot of the outbound flight to our group text of ~10 and got about a dozen excited replies.

If anyone here says they "[have] a home on the islands" and "haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii," I'd suggest they leave their little insulated Haole neighborhood and go find some locals that go to neighboring islands regularly. Locals love complaining about Hawaiian.


I can actually believe that....Southwest is AMAZING at short haul and their aircraft are perfect for hour flights.....I would also take a Southwest 737 with better economy legroom over Hawaiian's 717 with absolutely NO legroom in economy......Congrats to the Hawaiian locals for having a great new choice inter-island.....
Last edited by BMWdrvr75 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
We Make Flying Easy......Come fly the Silver Bird........Something Special in the Air......
 
MrBretz
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:27 am

What did I miss? Inter island? You all know 737 engines can’t stand the cycles, right?
 
B747Lighthouse
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:44 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:05 am

I did see the video of the arrival of WN at PHNL what gate did they get? Who is doing the work? is it contracted or their own people? Why did they not get a Jet bridge ?
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:12 am

MrBretz wrote:
What did I miss? Inter island? You all know 737 engines can’t stand the cycles, right?


You know WN is well versed in what a 737 can and cannot do, right?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:14 am

B747Lighthouse wrote:
I did see the video of the arrival of WN at PHNL what gate did they get? Who is doing the work? is it contracted or their own people? Why did they not get a Jet bridge ?


WN has gates G7, G8, G9, G10 and it’s fully staffed by WN employees.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:37 pm

CFM56 engines don’t like short flights, the engines need time to cool down. M

That’s why you don’t see CFM56s on interisland flights.
 
SEA
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:21 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:06 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
CFM56 engines don’t like short flights, the engines need time to cool down. M

That’s why you don’t see CFM56s on interisland flights.


WN and AK both have no issue at all running short flights and quick turns all day every day from routes like GEG-SEA... Not to mention international airlines that run these.
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:18 pm

Difference being unlike Hawaiian with the 717's, WN's 737's won't be doing constant back and forth short flights all day, everyday.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1184
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:24 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Except MCO is a pure price market and the flights are relative short for WN to and from MCO vs HI. The Hawaii customer is different than the MCO crowd. The trip to Hawaii may be their only trip there in a lifetime.

WN is going to need to evolve on the service end to do well in HI markets.
I'm failing to see how the WN product is all that much different than AS, who seems to Note to the islands.

It's Not going to be any better, It's probably not going to be even Different. It's just NEXT!! I see HNL bound 777's 757's NS 767'S ALL OVER the SAFO terminals when I go out on trip. The flights are full and I just don't see where WN might make that much of a difference in the market. They're only a difference because they haven't been there Before, Heck! I once took a flight to Hawaii with Herb Kelleher sitting 2 seats over from me. The flight attendants brought him and his wife all kinds of stuff telling him "we know you can't get this on Southwest,,But " He ate and Drank like a King! So? Its BOUT TIME! Now I wonder how it's going to be in the near future when the majors go back to full Catering in their attempt to "One up" each other... It's coming!! Make no mistake about that!
You're right, it's not going to be much different, which is why I don't understand some of the skepticism. I mean, we are talking about the largest airline in California, which is the largest US market to the islands.

As for the catering, consider me skeptical. When was the last time any airline added something to economy, especially domestically? The economy isn't going to stay good forever and I don't see how full catering would pencil out to be cost effective.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:25 pm

And WN hasn’t announced intraisland service.

Short cycles add wear to the engine.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3027
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:45 pm

usflyguy wrote:
777Mech wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Again, I do not see them doing any validations flights without the cabin fully staffed and maybe 40 to fifty seat fillers for he FA's to work with. Probably at least one in flight medical emergency along a cabin prep for ditching exercise. I assume (?) SW has done some special FA training for this kind of in flight. Might not be much medical, but the cabin prep for ditching can be significant. Don't know but I doubt that SWA has a cabin ditching sim?

An example of FAA oversight. North America to EGLL on a 777 ETOPS validation flight. Diverted into EINN and the engine required a bore scope for a further service sign off. No 777/RR bore scope tool could be found, and the airline had to charter an airplane and ferry one over to EINN from EGLL so as to pass the validation process. These FAA folks have a wicked imagination at times and if it's the FAA guy I'm thinking of, he will give you fits before it's over. Expect the unexpected best describes how this works.


The FAA will not allow pax on any validation flights. The FA training/certification is satisfied in yearly quals.


Except this was fully staffed with flight attendants plus an extra flight attendant and other employees.



Thanks for the afirmation of my previous statements:)
 
jplatts
Posts: 2194
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:04 pm

SEA wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
CFM56 engines don’t like short flights, the engines need time to cool down. M

That’s why you don’t see CFM56s on interisland flights.


WN and AK both have no issue at all running short flights and quick turns all day every day from routes like GEG-SEA... Not to mention international airlines that run these.


WN already operates many nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S. that are shorter than LIH-KOA, including ATL-GSP, ATL-BNA, AUS-DAL, AUS-HOU, BWI-ISP, BWI-ORF, BWI-PIT, BWI-RDU, BUR-LAS, MDW-CVG, MDW-DTW, MDW-GRR, MDW-IND, MDW-STL, DAL-HOU, DAL-OKC, DAL-SAT, DAL-TUL, DSM-STL, FLL-MCO, FLL-TPA, HOU-SAT, MCI-STL, LAS-LGB, LAS-LAX, LAS-ONT, LAS-SNA, LAS-PHX, LAS-SAN, OAK-RNO, and RNO-SJC.

In addition, a few of the existing WN nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S. such as ATL-GSP, AUS-HOU, BWI-ORF, and MDW-GRR are shorter than the HNL-KOA nonstop route.

WN is certainly able to operate LIH-KOA and HNL-KOA nonstop service on 737-800 planes since WN already operates 737NG planes on nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S. that are shorter than LIH-KOA and HNL-KOA.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:10 pm

usflyguy wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
What did I miss? Inter island? You all know 737 engines can’t stand the cycles, right?


You know WN is well versed in what a 737 can and cannot do, right?


You are absolutely correct. Maybe I missed the email on interisland service? All I recall is service to Hawaii. I would imagine maybe a couple flights a day from LAX to say KOA. Maybe one of those would return via OGG. Do you envision WN doing hourly flights between say KOA and HNL? Thar’s what HA does. Personally, I think it would be good for the consumer if WN could do this. I used to get tired spending $300 for my doctor visit on Oahu when I lived on the Big Island. But anet has taught me the engines can’t do the cycles. Maybe all these experts are nuts? I dunno....
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1916
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:12 pm

jplatts wrote:
SEA wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
CFM56 engines don’t like short flights, the engines need time to cool down. M

That’s why you don’t see CFM56s on interisland flights.


WN and AK both have no issue at all running short flights and quick turns all day every day from routes like GEG-SEA... Not to mention international airlines that run these.


WN already operates many nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S. that are shorter than LIH-KOA, including ATL-GSP, ATL-BNA, AUS-DAL, AUS-HOU, BWI-ISP, BWI-ORF, BWI-PIT, BWI-RDU, BUR-LAS, MDW-CVG, MDW-DTW, MDW-GRR, MDW-IND, MDW-STL, DAL-HOU, DAL-OKC, DAL-SAT, DAL-TUL, DSM-STL, FLL-MCO, FLL-TPA, HOU-SAT, MCI-STL, LAS-LGB, LAS-LAX, LAS-ONT, LAS-SNA, LAS-PHX, LAS-SAN, OAK-RNO, and RNO-SJC.

In addition, a few of the existing WN nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S. such as ATL-GSP, AUS-HOU, BWI-ORF, and MDW-GRR are shorter than the HNL-KOA nonstop route.

WN is certainly able to operate LIH-KOA and HNL-KOA nonstop service on 737-800 planes since WN already operates 737NG planes on nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S. that are shorter than LIH-KOA and HNL-KOA.

The problem isn't doing it once or twice, especially mixed in with longer flights (as they do on the continent). It's doing it 15 times a day, all day, every day like HA does and AQ used to do. WN knows this so if/when they start interisland flights they will probably have longer turns than HA, less frequency, and will cycle the planes in and out of the interisland operation.

By the way, LIH-KOA is probably the least likely route WN will fly after LIH-ITO. HA only recently started LIH-KOA once daily (i'm not aware of AQ or HA ever flying LIH-ITO non-stop). Expect the majority of WN's interisland flights to be HNL-OGG/LIH/KOA/ITO. HNL-OGG/LIH (also the busiest two) being pretty much exactly 100 miles each. I would be shocked if they did anything interisland that didn't touch HNL. Down the road they may try OGG-LIH/KOA but I wouldn't expect much beyond that.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
bob75013
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:21 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
And WN hasn’t announced intraisland service.

Short cycles add wear to the engine.


Southwest HAS announced intention to do inter island.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2194
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:30 pm

MrBretz wrote:
usflyguy wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
What did I miss? Inter island? You all know 737 engines can’t stand the cycles, right?


You know WN is well versed in what a 737 can and cannot do, right?


You are absolutely correct. Maybe I missed the email on interisland service? All I recall is service to Hawaii. I would imagine maybe a couple flights a day from LAX to say KOA. Maybe one of those would return via OGG. Do you envision WN doing hourly flights between say KOA and HNL? Thar’s what HA does. Personally, I think it would be good for the consumer if WN could do this. I used to get tired spending $300 for my doctor visit on Oahu when I lived on the Big Island. But anet has taught me the engines can’t do the cycles. Maybe all these experts are nuts? I dunno....


Here is what WN currently charges for roundtrip last-minute fares on ATL-GSP, GRR-MDW, AUS-HOU, and ORF-BWI nonstop flights (all of which are shorter than HNL-KOA):
ATL-GSP $438
GRR-MDW $454
AUS-HOU $476
ORF-BWI $538

Here is what WN currently charges for roundtrip fares on ATL-GSP, GRR-MDW, AUS-HOU, and ORF-BWI with 21-day advance purchase:
ATL-GSP $157
GRR-MDW $168
ORF-BWI $182
AUS-HOU $200

Unless WN has to charge lower fares on HNL-KOA interisland nonstops in order to remain competitive against HA, I expect WN to be charging between $150 and $200 on 21-day advance purchase roundtrip fares between HNL and KOA, and I expect WN to be charging between $400 and $550 on last-minute roundtrip fares between HNL and KOA.

How do fares on HA HNL-KOA nonstop service compare to the fares currently charged by WN on ATL-GSP, GRR-MDW, AUS-HOU, and ORF-BWI nonstop service?
 
bob75013
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN and Hawaii.

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:34 pm

mcdu wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
mcdu wrote:


And where do you get the assigned seat on WN? Where is that fare bucket? Can I pay in Euros?
You don't get an assigned seat on WN. Period. If it is that important to you, fly someone else. 120 million people per year seem to be able to work with it though.


Great adaptation to the market. That will serve you well. Lol


For over a decade:

WN has grown faster than the legacies
WN profit levels far exceed the legacies -- even DL (oh the horror)

That says a lot about how the airline has adapted to the market.

LOL back at ya hater!
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1916
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:39 pm

jplatts wrote:
How do fares on HA HNL-KOA nonstop service compare to the fares currently charged by WN on ATL-GSP, GRR-MDW, AUS-HOU, and ORF-BWI nonstop service?



Currently on HNL-KOA $158 roundtrip is HA's lowest fare. Highest I could find for this weekend is $314 roundtrip, but you can still fly for $158 or $163 if you're flexible on times. This is about where its been for the past few years.

I for one do not think HA overcharges, and I think the data supports this.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
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OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4583
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Re: WN and Hawaii.

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:43 pm

mcdu wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
You don't get an assigned seat on WN. Period. If it is that important to you, fly someone else. 120 million people per year seem to be able to work with it though.


Great adaptation to the market. That will serve you well. Lol


Your own airline became a basketcase and went through one of the longest bankruptcies in US aviation history, something WN never had to do. I think WN understands the market quite well.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
MrBretz
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:18 pm

I do stand corrected. I missed the memo. WN does intend to do interisland. Here’s an article about it.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/05/ ... d-service/

Gosh, maybe those CFMs can do the job.
 
n471wn
Posts: 1651
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:33 pm

The 6 hour and 40 minute flight from HNL to DAL has to be their all time longest time and distance flight ever.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1560
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:26 pm

Is WN's HNL/DAL n/s the first HNL/DAL commercial n/s for that city pair?
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 1495
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:34 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
And WN hasn’t announced intraisland service.

Short cycles add wear to the engine.


WN is the king of short cycles.
It's not like they're going to be doing 45 min hops followed by 20 min turns with a -800.
Average turn times on -800/Max are 50mins.
The Ramp loading gates in HNL weren't intended for quick turns rather a opportunity to have it's own gates without sharing with anyone else.

I'm gonna guess most Inter island flights will be tagged onto ETOPS legs which will be a long turn anyway.

Aircraft flow something like
HNL-OGG
05:00-05:45
OGG-OAK
07:00-15:15
OAK-OGG
16:30-19:55
OGG-HNL
21:10-21:55
Or
OAK-HNL
06:00-09:25
HNL-LIH
10:45-11:40
LIH-HNL
12:40-13:35
HNL-OAK
15:00-23:30


Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2018
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:37 pm

n471wn wrote:
The 6 hour and 40 minute flight from HNL to DAL has to be their all time longest time and distance flight ever.


6:40 isn't that long if you think about it. I'm sure there are some westbound flights from the east coast that eclipse that number in the winter, especially routes like EWR-OAK or BWI-SAN.
 
ajlombardi2
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:49 pm

chrisair wrote:
n471wn wrote:
The 6 hour and 40 minute flight from HNL to DAL has to be their all time longest time and distance flight ever.


6:40 isn't that long if you think about it. I'm sure there are some westbound flights from the east coast that eclipse that number in the winter, especially routes like EWR-OAK or BWI-SAN.


yeah a few weeks ago I was on EWR-SAN on WN on MLK day and the flight pushed 7 hrs w/ very strong jet stream (i think it was 6:45 or so?). I was looking at how BOS-SAN was doin that day and b6 was making tech stops on the A320 and AS made it on the 738 at like 7 hrs 30 min.
 
mga707
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:51 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Is WN's HNL/DAL n/s the first HNL/DAL commercial n/s for that city pair?


No. Braniff flew DAL-HNL from August 1969 until operations moved to then-new DFW in January 1974. Initially with 707 equipment until Braniff's sole (at that time) 747 took over the route in January 1971.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: WN 8725 KOAK - PHNL She's on her way!

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:55 pm

chrisair wrote:
n471wn wrote:
The 6 hour and 40 minute flight from HNL to DAL has to be their all time longest time and distance flight ever.


6:40 isn't that long if you think about it. I'm sure there are some westbound flights from the east coast that eclipse that number in the winter, especially routes like EWR-OAK or BWI-SAN.


I've definitely had a few flight times that pushed or exceeded 6:40, but as far as distance, N471 may be on to something.
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