BravoOne wrote:

Again, I do not see them doing any validations flights without the cabin fully staffed and maybe 40 to fifty seat fillers for he FA's to work with. Probably at least one in flight medical emergency along a cabin prep for ditching exercise. I assume (?) SW has done some special FA training for this kind of in flight. Might not be much medical, but the cabin prep for ditching can be significant. Don't know but I doubt that SWA has a cabin ditching sim?

An example of FAA oversight. North America to EGLL on a 777 ETOPS validation flight. Diverted into EINN and the engine required a bore scope for a further service sign off. No 777/RR bore scope tool could be found, and the airline had to charter an airplane and ferry one over to EINN from EGLL so as to pass the validation process. These FAA folks have a wicked imagination at times and if it's the FAA guy I'm thinking of, he will give you fits before it's over. Expect the unexpected best describes how this works.

The FAA will not allow pax on any validation flights. The FA training/certification is satisfied in yearly quals.

Silver1SWA wrote:

mcdu wrote:

737’s go to the islands everyday. This is not a major event. If anything WN is really late to the party. Having a home in the islands I haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii. Most are FF of UA, HA or AK and don’t see the need for WN. WN may fare similarly to Allegiant.

It’s a major event for WN and people interested which we all know does not include you.

Exactly. My Rapid Rewards are ready to go!

Btw Silver, how's Hawaii?

mcdu wrote:

Having a home in the islands I haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii. Most are FF of UA, HA or AK and don’t see the need for WN. WN may fare similarly to Allegiant.

There are plenty of Californians who want to use their Rapid Rewards points to go to Hawaii.

WN will do better than Allegiant. WN may not have the most stellar on-time record, but they're not using ancient planes that break if you look at them wrong and should have been retired, like the G4 757s. Allegiant developed an early reputation for problems and unreliability in Hawaii.

mcdu wrote:

STLflyer wrote:

Any insight into what's going on in the cabin right now? I'm sure some FAA inspectors are on there, are they just relaxing and enjoying the ride, or what sort of work would they be doing right now? Other than FAA, who might be on it?

What are the inspectors doing? Probably naming their price for a successful completion since WN is involved.

Always the ray of sunshine!

mcdu wrote:

STLflyer wrote:

Any insight into what's going on in the cabin right now? I'm sure some FAA inspectors are on there, are they just relaxing and enjoying the ride, or what sort of work would they be doing right now? Other than FAA, who might be on it?

What are the inspectors doing? Probably naming their price for a successful completion since WN is involved.

Maybe everyone is enjoying a free showing of "Crazy Rich Asians" or "Ocean's 8"

WN732 wrote:

Silver1SWA wrote:

mcdu wrote:

737’s go to the islands everyday. This is not a major event. If anything WN is really late to the party. Having a home in the islands I haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii. Most are FF of UA, HA or AK and don’t see the need for WN. WN may fare similarly to Allegiant.

It’s a major event for WN and people interested which we all know does not include you.

Exactly. My Rapid Rewards are ready to go!

Btw Silver, how's Hawaii?

I’m loving it so far. We have a great group of employees out here and we can’t wait to receive this aircraft this afternoon. I’m off today but I’ll be out there taking lots of photos.

mcdu wrote:

737’s go to the islands everyday. This is not a major event. If anything WN is really late to the party. Having a home in the islands I haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii. Most are FF of UA, HA or AK and don’t see the need for WN. WN may fare similarly to Allegiant.

Reminds me of the AW 747 service to japan. They created flying that didn’t fit the company. WN is not a good fit for long haul vacation traffic. Families want to sit together. They may have children too old for pre boarding and they may only make those once a year trips. Assigned seats are a big item for families on a vacation. No ability to get hot food even with but on board or a premium cabin is going to hurt also. Let’s see how well this experiment works out.

Even if it isn't a huge business success, Southwest is so big they can bank-roll it to infinity. Hawaii is a big add for their network.

mcdu wrote:

If anything WN is really late to the party. Having a home in the islands I haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii. Most are FF of UA, HA or AK and don’t see the need for WN.

Sure. That's why "Southwest to conduct first long-distance test flight, a key step toward long-awaited Hawaii service" is literally the top story on Hawaii News Now at this moment. I get there are a lot of slow news days in Hawaii (Paradise is nice that way) but if no one cared, there'd be no coverage.

mcdu wrote:

WN is not a good fit for long haul vacation traffic. Families want to sit together. They may have children too old for pre boarding and they may only make those once a year trips. Assigned seats are a big item for families on a vacation.

Yep, and this is why WN is a colossal failure at airports like MCO (27% domestic share), TPA (35%) , and FLL (24%). Families just don't choose WN in leisure-focused markets because paying a few hundred dollars in extra fees for checked bags and selecting assigned seats is incredibly budget-friendly. I wonder if a Basic Economy fare on UA will let a family sit together.

Except many Kama'aina have already picked up the Alaska Airlines & Hawaiian Airlines credit cards, so they don't pay for 1st bag anyway.

I should probably stop posting here, I mean, apparently I'm making everything up about waiting hours for cars (happened to me repeatedly, and even over Christmas was told in OGG it would be 2 hours for my car, as a Presidents Circle member @ Hertz. Its happened SO MUCH that I now have 2 car rental reservations everytime I come over (4-8x a year) - one with Hertz, one with National - at least ONE of them won't have my car ready no matter what time of year). I'm also making it up that most airlines are fairly empty to/from Hawai'i. And I guess I'm making it up that my friend just bought a ticket from Juneau to Kona for $209 one way, and another friend for $200 from Denver.

So market plateau and saturation are ONLY in my head and just my head... WN's entry to Hawai'i is about ego, and not to make money.

I find it strange that people think WN will fail in Hawaii. Since there really isn't a leisure company that flies to the islands, I think they will have tremendous success, especially since they are flying to HNL, OGG, KOA, and LIH. Not only will they be a huge success for people traveling to Hawaii, this will give people another large network of destinations all over the US. Hawaii to the mainland will be 100% successful, even if it's slow to start.

Having said that, they also announced they wanted to fly interisland. This will be the ultimate downfall of WN in Hawaii. They will need a much more fuel efficient aircraft than their overabundance of 737s. I'm not sure if they have an exclusivity clause with Boeing, but they might have to venture into the smaller aircraft market to ensure some profitability with interisland travel. Like discussed in a different thread about the downfall of AQ, interisland travel can be detrimental to the success or failure in Hawaii.

Personally, I don't think WN should go through with the interisland travel, that just feels like a disaster waiting to happen. However, I'm sure WN has quite a few people looking into the possible profitability of running interisland service. They would be HA's only main competitor, besides MW (if you can even consider them a competitor). Either way, it's a very exciting time for loyal WN flyers. Here's hoping they add additional service to/from other westcoast destinations as well!

usxguy wrote:

Except many Kama'aina have already picked up the Alaska Airlines & Hawaiian Airlines credit cards, so they don't pay for 1st bag anyway.

I should probably stop posting here, I mean, apparently I'm making everything up about waiting hours for cars (happened to me repeatedly, and even over Christmas was told in OGG it would be 2 hours for my car, as a Presidents Circle member @ Hertz. Its happened SO MUCH that I now have 2 car rental reservations everytime I come over (4-8x a year) - one with Hertz, one with National - at least ONE of them won't have my car ready no matter what time of year). I'm also making it up that most airlines are fairly empty to/from Hawai'i. And I guess I'm making it up that my friend just bought a ticket from Juneau to Kona for $209 one way, and another friend for $200 from Denver.

So market plateau and saturation are ONLY in my head and just my head... WN's entry to Hawai'i is about ego, and not to make money.

And, pay $100 a year for the Hawaiian Airlines credit card so my 1st bag can fly free...ummmm...NO THANKS! I’ll fly Southwest!

WN732 wrote:

Exactly. My Rapid Rewards are ready to go!

Most people patiently waiting for this new service seem to be saying the same thing. Curious, is there any limit to the amount of rewards seats per flight? Seems like seats are gong to be gobbled up quite quickly by everyone cashing in Rapid Rewards.

usxguy wrote:

I'm also making it up that most airlines are fairly empty to/from Hawai'i. And I guess I'm making it up that my friend just bought a ticket from Juneau to Kona for $209 one way, and another friend for $200 from Denver.

Well, obviously the other airlines are in the market to fly empty planes if they're already "fairly empty to/from Hawai'i." They must just be doing it to lose money or for ego. And WN isn't really competing for traffic from JNU or SEA or ANC or DEN. This addition is focused on capturing traffic from California, and WN has the largest market share of all carriers in the state. At the airports at which they have announced service to Hawai'i, WN holds 73% domestic share at OAK, 39% at SAN, 49% at SJC, and 55% at SMF. Many passengers flying other carriers to Hawai'i from those airports will choose WN once they are an option. They'll certainly capture some connecting traffic, but this is all about recapturing their natural market share.

WN didn't return to DEN until 2006. Clearly that airport was already saturated what with both UA and F9 operating hubs there. Yup, that's been a huge failure for WN, just like Hawai'i will be.

hawaiian717 wrote:

mcdu wrote:

Having a home in the islands I haven’t heard anyone pining to have WN serving Hawaii. Most are FF of UA, HA or AK and don’t see the need for WN. WN may fare similarly to Allegiant.

There are plenty of Californians who want to use their Rapid Rewards points to go to Hawaii.

WN will do better than Allegiant. WN may not have the most stellar on-time record, but they're not using ancient planes that break if you look at them wrong and should have been retired, like the G4 757s. Allegiant developed an early reputation for problems and unreliability in Hawaii.

Allegiant, for the first ten months of 2018, was a few points behind WN in on-time performance - and WN was a few points behind Alaska and Delta. Fleet age isn't a predictor of reliable ops: compare AA to DL in on-time and completion rates. Anyway, Allegiant, with its 319s and 320s, has an avg fleet age of 13.0 years, and WN 11.0.

usxguy wrote:

Except many Kama'aina have already picked up the Alaska Airlines & Hawaiian Airlines credit cards, so they don't pay for 1st bag anyway.

I should probably stop posting here, I mean, apparently I'm making everything up about waiting hours for cars (happened to me repeatedly, and even over Christmas was told in OGG it would be 2 hours for my car, as a Presidents Circle member @ Hertz. Its happened SO MUCH that I now have 2 car rental reservations everytime I come over (4-8x a year) - one with Hertz, one with National - at least ONE of them won't have my car ready no matter what time of year). I'm also making it up that most airlines are fairly empty to/from Hawai'i. And I guess I'm making it up that my friend just bought a ticket from Juneau to Kona for $209 one way, and another friend for $200 from Denver.

So market plateau and saturation are ONLY in my head and just my head... WN's entry to Hawai'i is about ego, and not to make money.

I would argue it depends on the time of year you're visiting as well as the time of day and even what seat you're sitting in on your inbound arrival effects on how long it takes to get a rental car. I rent cars frequently for interisland trips, and my experience is vastly different than yours and I have no status with any rental agency. This is mostly because I arrive before the first mainland arrivals. Most of the Hawaii airports see successive mainland arrivals in a short period of time which floods the rental car companies with customers. If you are not one of the first off the plane to rush over, its only natural you'd have to wait as hundreds of people are picking up rentals at the same time. If you came over Christmas did you expect to be in and out in 5 minutes? Christmas is a peak travel time.

Additionally, you providing us anecdotal information about friends who purchased low price tickets without providing key details about the dates of travel or how far in advance they were purchased doesn't tell a complete story and reads more like you manufacturing a narrative to prove points you've made up thread. Tickets purchased many months in advance will often be cheaper as there is more available inventory on that flight and tickets purchased for off-peak periods will be cheaper than high demand periods, like Christmas, Spring Break, Summer.

I'd also ask you to define fairly empty. There are several sources online where one can retrieve load factors by airline to/from the Hawaii market. The last time I looked, most airlines were in the mid 80s for LFs. I Is that considered fairly empty ?

Lastly, I have a heard time believing that a for profit company like WN has lasted as long as it has and has been as successful as it has by operating routes at a loss due to ego. The fact that you seem to think this puts into question many of your previous statements in my opinion.

77H

Junction wrote:

WN732 wrote:

Exactly. My Rapid Rewards are ready to go!

Most people patiently waiting for this new service seem to be saying the same thing. Curious, is there any limit to the amount of rewards seats per flight? Seems like seats are gong to be gobbled up quite quickly by everyone cashing in Rapid Rewards.

On WN, reward availability is the same as "money" availability. So as cheap fare buckets fill up with either reward travelers or paying passengers, the tickets become progressively more expensive in both points and money.

Looks like she's about 90 minutes away. I wonder if the local press will cover the arrival.

rj777 wrote:

Looks like she's about 90 minutes away. I wonder if the local press will cover the arrival.

I would assume that there are cameras at the ready to focus on the landing. Reminds me of the landing of the Concorde in Honolulu in 1986. I am sure the ANA A380 may get as much coverage, also.

[/quote]

The FAA will not allow pax on any validation flights. The FA training/certification is satisfied in yearly quals.[/quote]

There is a full FA Crew staffed onboard. The FAA will also work with them; giving them scenarios to work through in order to validate their knowledge of specific EOW procedures.

Forget the naysayers, folks. This website is horrible. None of these armchair captains know what they’re talking about.

It’s in-range. :33 out.

I, for one, am excited for our new Airline Overlords! loljk

Wish the best for Southwest on this one-they've been trying to get this done for years!

Breaking news...

Just Landed...

Is it going to park at a gate or at a remote stand?

Is it turning around to go back today?

Bazooka wrote:

usxguy wrote:

Except many Kama'aina have already picked up the Alaska Airlines & Hawaiian Airlines credit cards, so they don't pay for 1st bag anyway.

I should probably stop posting here, I mean, apparently I'm making everything up about waiting hours for cars (happened to me repeatedly, and even over Christmas was told in OGG it would be 2 hours for my car, as a Presidents Circle member @ Hertz. Its happened SO MUCH that I now have 2 car rental reservations everytime I come over (4-8x a year) - one with Hertz, one with National - at least ONE of them won't have my car ready no matter what time of year). I'm also making it up that most airlines are fairly empty to/from Hawai'i. And I guess I'm making it up that my friend just bought a ticket from Juneau to Kona for $209 one way, and another friend for $200 from Denver.

So market plateau and saturation are ONLY in my head and just my head... WN's entry to Hawai'i is about ego, and not to make money.

And, pay $100 a year for the Hawaiian Airlines credit card so my 1st bag can fly free...ummmm...NO THANKS! I’ll fly Southwest!

I’ll go with the Alaska card with my free bags and companion ticket please.

rj777 wrote:

Is it going to park at a gate or at a remote stand?

They'll probably park at one of their 4 gates (G7-G10). The renovated terminal was just completed yesterday.

Do we know if this flight going back to California today

flydulles wrote:

Do we know if this flight going back to California today

No, rumor is they are going to go straight to DAL tomorrow.

737max8 wrote:

flydulles wrote:

Do we know if this flight going back to California today

No, rumor is they are going to go straight to DAL tomorrow.

Dont know where you got that.

mwmav8r01 wrote:

737max8 wrote:

flydulles wrote:

Do we know if this flight going back to California today

No, rumor is they are going to go straight to DAL tomorrow.

Dont know where you got that.

It is currently scheduled to go back to DAL tomorrow. So maybe it came from there?

mwmav8r01 wrote:

737max8 wrote:

flydulles wrote:

Do we know if this flight going back to California today

No, rumor is they are going to go straight to DAL tomorrow.

Dont know where you got that.

Not at all a rumor......

8725 HNL-DAL.....leaves at 11:00 tomorrow.

A brief read of the thread will confirm that.

It will be N/S to DAL as the same flight number as today - blocked at 7:30. Not an issue with only 20 pax.

Wow, a 737 to Hawaii. Impressive. Good job!

bdc767 wrote:

Wow, a 737 to Hawaii. Impressive. Good job!

Not exactly a new thing. Aloha did it for years.

I’m not sure how to post a photo directly to the forum on my phone but here’s a photo I posted to Twitter.

https://twitter.com/ryanpastorino/statu ... 60640?s=21

I’m not sure how to post a photo directly to the forum on my phone but here’s a photo I posted to Twitter.

Here ya go. Beautiful shot!

Silver1SWA wrote:

I’m not sure how to post a photo directly to the forum on my phone but here’s a photo I posted to Twitter.

https://twitter.com/ryanpastorino/statu ... 60640?s=21

That's beautiful, thanks for posting!

Silver1SWA wrote:

I’m not sure how to post a photo directly to the forum on my phone but here’s a photo I posted to Twitter.

https://twitter.com/ryanpastorino/statu ... 60640?s=21

Wow. Very nice. Thanks for sharing this with us!

MrBretz wrote:

The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. The flight to Hawaii can approach 6 hours. That’s a long way to fly on vacation not being guaranteed seating next to family or friends. It’s not an obstacle on much shorter mainland flights but on these longer leisure flights, I see resistance. I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. I know who will win that argument.

This would keep me from flying WN to Hawaii unless the cost for business select was not too much more than flying an airline with assigned seats plus baggage fees. I'll fly WN on 2-3 hr trips because if I don't get to sit next to my wife it won't be the end of the world. 6 hrs is past the limit for me.

If WN ever went to assigned seats (even if they charged for assignment and people that don't want to pay board last first come first served) they'd be the perfect airline. I will say that the boarding process is noticably faster on WN than any other airline.

hiloboy1 wrote:

Very curious to see WN pricing; typically for Hawaii residents we get bent over with airfares almost doubling June through September and then again 15 December through the New Year. Up to 15 December RT airfare can be $350 to $500 then it jumps overnight to $700-$800. These are the times we need cheap fares to get our children to/from mainland colleges or we can take time off. We're all hoping for "the WN effect"!0

The airlines offer mele fares for the locals to go visit family on the mainland, we used to fly to Portland at Christmas every year we lived there for under $400 & the flights were packed with locals going to see the snow & ski. But yes, getting kids home from the mainland is expensive. Supply & demand. Airlines like Delta fly seasonally for only 3 weeks over the holidays PDX-HNL. It’s shooting fish in a barrel, there are just that many people wanting to go & airlines don’t want to trash yields by dumping a bunch of inventory into the market.

WNCrew wrote:

mwmav8r01 wrote:

737max8 wrote:

No, rumor is they are going to go straight to DAL tomorrow.

Dont know where you got that.

It is currently scheduled to go back to DAL tomorrow. So maybe it came from there?

Sorry I had different information.

planecane wrote:

MrBretz wrote:

The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. The flight to Hawaii can approach 6 hours. That’s a long way to fly on vacation not being guaranteed seating next to family or friends. It’s not an obstacle on much shorter mainland flights but on these longer leisure flights, I see resistance. I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. I know who will win that argument.

This would keep me from flying WN to Hawaii unless the cost for business select was not too much more than flying an airline with assigned seats plus baggage fees. I'll fly WN on 2-3 hr trips because if I don't get to sit next to my wife it won't be the end of the world. 6 hrs is past the limit for me.

If WN ever went to assigned seats (even if they charged for assignment and people that don't want to pay board last first come first served) they'd be the perfect airline. I will say that the boarding process is noticably faster on WN than any other airline.

Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.

drerx7 wrote:

planecane wrote:

MrBretz wrote:

The one problem I see with WNs model is the lack of assigned seating. The flight to Hawaii can approach 6 hours. That’s a long way to fly on vacation not being guaranteed seating next to family or friends. It’s not an obstacle on much shorter mainland flights but on these longer leisure flights, I see resistance. I heard a couple who lives there discussing this recently. The man was talking about potentially cheap fares to the mainland. The woman said there was no way she was flying on a cattle car not possibly being able to sit next to her husband. I know who will win that argument.

This would keep me from flying WN to Hawaii unless the cost for business select was not too much more than flying an airline with assigned seats plus baggage fees. I'll fly WN on 2-3 hr trips because if I don't get to sit next to my wife it won't be the end of the world. 6 hrs is past the limit for me.

If WN ever went to assigned seats (even if they charged for assignment and people that don't want to pay board last first come first served) they'd be the perfect airline. I will say that the boarding process is noticably faster on WN than any other airline.

Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.

Agree. Pay the just-raised-to-$25 Early Bird surcharge and you almost certainly will be able to sit together. The closest thing WN has to seat assignments.

How can people go thru life being so negative? All of us that are excited about WN landing in HNL, aren't excited because they did it with a 737 model that has been flying to the islands for 10+ years, but because it is a new airline!

Let me repost what I found on SWA website about early bird check in:

"There is no limit to the number of passengers that can purchase Early Bird check-in. Based on the rules for assigning boarding passes, if there are enough A-List travelers and people buying Early Bird check-in, you could still end up in Boarding Group C. That situation is highly unlikely, but it is possible."

Anyone know the minimum number for test flights are required by the FAA for Etops?

If I'm not mistaken VX did 4 flights before it was cleared to sale tickets?

Flyguy

MrBretz wrote:

Let me repost what I found on SWA website about early bird check in:

"There is no limit to the number of passengers that can purchase Early Bird check-in. Based on the rules for assigning boarding passes, if there are enough A-List travelers and people buying Early Bird check-in, you could still end up in Boarding Group C. That situation is highly unlikely, but it is possible."

And let me quote to you the back of the Tylenol bottle... “This medication may cause death.”

It’s called legalese and covering all of the bases when you’re selling a service.

mga707 wrote:

drerx7 wrote:

planecane wrote:

This would keep me from flying WN to Hawaii unless the cost for business select was not too much more than flying an airline with assigned seats plus baggage fees. I'll fly WN on 2-3 hr trips because if I don't get to sit next to my wife it won't be the end of the world. 6 hrs is past the limit for me.

If WN ever went to assigned seats (even if they charged for assignment and people that don't want to pay board last first come first served) they'd be the perfect airline. I will say that the boarding process is noticably faster on WN than any other airline.

Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.

Agree. Pay the just-raised-to-$25 Early Bird surcharge and you almost certainly will be able to sit together. The closest thing WN has to seat assignments.

Most people traveling to Hawaii will be together or have kids so middle seats will be taken on a higher rate than a businessman’s route.

I guess we will have to see if the lack of seat assignments causes anyone an issue. If I were by myself, it would not be an issue. If I were flying with 2 or 3 kids, it would be an issue. If it’s just 2 of us, it’s probably not an issue. I do wish WN the best. I fly them whenever I can on the mainland.

32andBelow wrote:

mga707 wrote:

drerx7 wrote:

Is this really a thing? I've flown WN for decades and have never ever had an issue not being able to sit with friends or family. I suppose it can happen if folks are amongst the last to board...but that isn't a constant. If a half way concerted effort is made to sit with your friends or family...this will be a non-issue.

Agree. Pay the just-raised-to-$25 Early Bird surcharge and you almost certainly will be able to sit together. The closest thing WN has to seat assignments.

Most people traveling to Hawaii will be together or have kids so middle seats will be taken on a higher rate than a businessman’s route.

Valid point. But as usxguy and mcdu have assured us, the flights will be empty anyway, so there should be no concern about being able to sit with family and friends.


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