hayzel777
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China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:49 am

Pilots at CI have announced their approval for a strike, following a breakdown in negotiations and their claim of a violation by the company regarding their negotiation agreement made in August 2018 when they first voted to strike. Pilots do not rule out a strike over the next 9 days, which is the Lunar New Year in East Asia, the busiest travel season of the year. Pilots will receive union email/text 24 hours prior to the strike's commencement. Once it starts, it will not end till a collective bargaining agreement is signed.

Union demands as follows:
- Change the crew duty-time of certain flights to allow for more rest and better operations
- Promise not to retaliate against any union members or potential union members
- Hire local pilots before hiring foreign pilots (CI has a hiring freeze for local pilots but is actively recruiting expats in 2019)
- Pilot input for pilot management selection
- Use FOQA data to improve pilots, not to punish them
- More pilot autonomy in decision making (why can BR allow it but CI can't?)


The company has accused the union of sabotaging negotiations, putting their rights before passengers, and being unreasonable. On February 2nd, the company further escalated by sending a memo to check airman and chief pilots (signed by Chairman Ho), describing how children's faces will change from being happy to being devastated when they learn their vacation has been cancelled or affected because of "greedy and unreasonable" pilots. They also claimed that pilots were not acting under the "traditions" of Lunar New Year and how they are ruining the happiness of many passenger's should they strike. Both the chief pilots and the check airman are also part of the union, and have been fielding calls from the company asking them "are you on the union's side or the company's side".

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201902010024.aspx
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:54 am

Company's COO and EVP of Flight Ops sent a scathing email yesterday (2/3) to pilots, saying that they should remember that CI is paying their salary, not the union; that why is it when the company and union talk it's negotiations but when the company and it's own employees talk, it's considered coercion and threats; that CI not giving in is well within their rights as a company; and that the company's pilots are greedy...they've already promised a bonus that would increase their costs by two-folds but they still want more because all they see is money. The union called the email disturbing and indicative of how CI treats their employees and have called off any talks because they are now going to display the "same attitude" that the company is displaying. This pretty much seals the deal for a strike anytime in the next 9 days unless the government (as CI's majority shareholder) step in.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:59 am

I honestly didn’t know a strike was even an option in China......
 
a19901213
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:08 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
I honestly didn’t know a strike was even an option in China......


I know it's rather confusing but China airline is actually a Taiwanese carrier.

"Air China" on the other hand is an actual Chinese airline.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:10 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
I honestly didn’t know a strike was even an option in China......


Its Taiwan, not... China/PRC .....
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:10 am

a19901213 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
I honestly didn’t know a strike was even an option in China......


I know it's rather confusing but China airline is actually a Taiwanese carrier.

"Air China" on the other hand is an actual Chinese airline.


Lol RTFQ......thanks
 
smi0006
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:21 am

What sort of autonomy do CI pilots want in decision making?

I can’t comment on any of the Union demands, as I don’t know details but I confess I don’t agree a business isn’t a democracy, why should pilots get to choose their manager?
 
hz747300
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:30 pm

smi0006 wrote:
What sort of autonomy do CI pilots want in decision making?

I can’t comment on any of the Union demands, as I don’t know details but I confess I don’t agree a business isn’t a democracy, why should pilots get to choose their manager?


Probably because they don't want a management stooge.
Keep on truckin'...
 
gunnerman
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:28 pm

Is this an example of an authoritarian management which fails to engage its pilots and will now suffer the consequences? The Ryanair situation springs to mind.
 
Varsity1
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:25 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Is this an example of an authoritarian management which fails to engage its pilots and will now suffer the consequences? The Ryanair situation springs to mind.


Bigger issue as a whole is most management hasn't the slightest idea of what it's like to be a pilot or the challenges they face.

"Oh you just picked through thunderstorms for the past 8 hours in the dark, why can't you sit at the airport ready standby?? You have 4 more hours left of duty!?" :roll:
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:53 pm

smi0006 wrote:
What sort of autonomy do CI pilots want in decision making?

I can’t comment on any of the Union demands, as I don’t know details but I confess I don’t agree a business isn’t a democracy, why should pilots get to choose their manager?

Currently, CI pilots do not make the decision whether or not a flight is cancelled or delayed during poor weather (typhoon season is the main one). Instead, the dispatch center will send a msg to them stating whether or not they are flying and at what time; refuse the flight and you will be fired.

Additionally, pilots that want to add on extra fuel compared to the dispatchers notes are required to obtain a supervisor's permission in addition to writing a report. Pilots are discouraged from deviating from the flight path assigned and deviations that add on extra time to the flight (they say +5 min, non ATC delay) are discouraged/company needs to know that they are using more fuel (because the company says fuel=money that's hard earned).

Rival BR used to have the same authoritarian management, though they have since changed quite dramatically following the hiring of outside consulting, expat advice, and some changes following negotiations with unions. Pilots at BR now have significantly more autonomy.
Last edited by hayzel777 on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:54 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
Is this an example of an authoritarian management which fails to engage its pilots and will now suffer the consequences? The Ryanair situation springs to mind.


Bigger issue as a whole is most management hasn't the slightest idea of what it's like to be a pilot or the challenges they face.

"Oh you just picked through thunderstorms for the past 8 hours in the dark, why can't you sit at the airport ready standby?? You have 4 more hours left of duty!?" :roll:

Last time this happened at CI, the company suggested that they hang DND signs, close the blinds, and turn off the lights at outstations to "increase rest". They also suggested that the pilots drink more coffee so that they are not as tired.
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:06 pm

Union has began strike preparations, beginning with a participation confirmation event. Within one hour, 60% of union members replied with an affirmative yes. Those that have not replied may be on duty right now.
 
SteelChair
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:18 pm

Its an unfortunate situation whenever negotiations get to this point.

I don't know enough about the labor situation to comment but feel confident about the safety piece. WRT to operations, the pilot in command should have final authority and he/she should not face disciplinary action for any decision made in the interest of flight safety. Anything else is just bad business.
 
many321
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:28 pm

Pity that this is occurring. Though, I don't blame the union for doing this.
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:04 pm

The strike is going to start from 6am local time, as in less than 4 hours from now.
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:45 am

Currently, 28 flights are cancelled. Number of flights operated today should be better than the next few days, as the strike did not start till 6am (reporting time, not departure time). Pilots must report 2-2.5 hours prior to flight so the 6am time gave the morning bank the ability to depart.
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:06 pm

Report claims that CI management accuse the union for trying to ask for a more relaxed alcohol limit and respond by saying it cannot be discussed as we cannot change the law, however the union rejected the accusation, claim what they want in this item is a more reasonable procedure that involve a second check if there are any alcohol found in the first check because the current procedure at CI would suspend and fire any pilots that have a equipment reading of alcohol of anything other than zero without considering the equipment error margin. It also seems that labor union see this sort of accusation as "trying to lower the image of pilots and the union" which further fueled their dissatisfaction and that's a reason why they announced the strike action so quickly yesterday with little previous warning
Also, there are other reports (with unknown credibility) that claim because CI is an airlines majorly controlled by the government and its management are also under the government's order, politics are also involved in sequence of actions leading to the strike. Some claims that the fraction of people who's currently controlling CI within the ruling party want to have the role of the Minister of Transportation to themselves, so they indirectly caused the union to start the strike to make it difficult for the current Minister of Transportation to deal with it.
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:34 pm

c933103 wrote:
Report claims that CI management accuse the union for trying to ask for a more relaxed alcohol limit and respond by saying it cannot be discussed as we cannot change the law, however the union rejected the accusation, claim what they want in this item is a more reasonable procedure that involve a second check if there are any alcohol found in the first check because the current procedure at CI would suspend and fire any pilots that have a equipment reading of alcohol of anything other than zero without considering the equipment error margin. It also seems that labor union see this sort of accusation as "trying to lower the image of pilots and the union" which further fueled their dissatisfaction and that's a reason why they announced the strike action so quickly yesterday with little previous warning
Also, there are other reports (with unknown credibility) that claim because CI is an airlines majorly controlled by the government and its management are also under the government's order, politics are also involved in sequence of actions leading to the strike. Some claims that the fraction of people who's currently controlling CI within the ruling party want to have the role of the Minister of Transportation to themselves, so they indirectly caused the union to start the strike to make it difficult for the current Minister of Transportation to deal with it.

The alcohol secondary check has been a factor for quite awhile. CI refuses to implement a second check.

Reports are also coming in that CI has apparently used training or cadet pilots (not type-rated) to operate as PM for many of the flights, despite the AOR rules stating that check-airman and a backup must be present prior to certification. These cadets are also not abiding by the rest rules, as they did not get the required 10 hours prior to reporting for duty. When asked for comment, CI has not denied it but declined to comment.
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:45 pm

Isnt 2 pilots for 8 hours, 3 for 12 standard for US carriers??

She said CAL should assign four pilots and co-pilots instead of the usual three to all flights of more than 12 hours, and three cockpit crew instead of two for flights of at least eight hours.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east- ... -by-pilots
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:19 am

trex8 wrote:
Isnt 2 pilots for 8 hours, 3 for 12 standard for US carriers??

She said CAL should assign four pilots and co-pilots instead of the usual three to all flights of more than 12 hours, and three cockpit crew instead of two for flights of at least eight hours.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east- ... -by-pilots

"more than" 8/12 hours.
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:43 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Report claims that CI management accuse the union for trying to ask for a more relaxed alcohol limit and respond by saying it cannot be discussed as we cannot change the law, however the union rejected the accusation, claim what they want in this item is a more reasonable procedure that involve a second check if there are any alcohol found in the first check because the current procedure at CI would suspend and fire any pilots that have a equipment reading of alcohol of anything other than zero without considering the equipment error margin. It also seems that labor union see this sort of accusation as "trying to lower the image of pilots and the union" which further fueled their dissatisfaction and that's a reason why they announced the strike action so quickly yesterday with little previous warning
Also, there are other reports (with unknown credibility) that claim because CI is an airlines majorly controlled by the government and its management are also under the government's order, politics are also involved in sequence of actions leading to the strike. Some claims that the fraction of people who's currently controlling CI within the ruling party want to have the role of the Minister of Transportation to themselves, so they indirectly caused the union to start the strike to make it difficult for the current Minister of Transportation to deal with it.

The alcohol secondary check has been a factor for quite awhile. CI refuses to implement a second check.

Reports are also coming in that CI has apparently used training or cadet pilots (not type-rated) to operate as PM for many of the flights, despite the AOR rules stating that check-airman and a backup must be present prior to certification. These cadets are also not abiding by the rest rules, as they did not get the required 10 hours prior to reporting for duty. When asked for comment, CI has not denied it but declined to comment.

Reports claimed they're also using fewer than standard amount of pilots on flights to maintain operation.

Also it seems like negotiation between union and management didn't work out
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:50 pm

trex8 wrote:
Isnt 2 pilots for 8 hours, 3 for 12 standard for US carriers??

She said CAL should assign four pilots and co-pilots instead of the usual three to all flights of more than 12 hours, and three cockpit crew instead of two for flights of at least eight hours.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east- ... -by-pilots

The standard in FAA Part 117 is that if the flight is over 8 but less than 13 hours, you need 3 and if it is over 12 but less than 17 hours, you need 4. The thing CI is using is that they have already met the law so they are not moving anymore.
 
bennett123
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:57 pm

Sounds as if what the pilots want and what FAA say is the same.
 
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Aesma
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:15 pm

Taiwan is not under the FAA's jurisdiction.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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OA940
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:35 pm

Can't know if this is actually true, but if it is then this management really needs to learn how to de-escalate a situation like that. Throwing around insults will most definitely not help the situation.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:48 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Sounds as if what the pilots want and what FAA say is the same.

There are 3 different sets of rules governing crew duty time.

MOTC rules are that over 12 hours, you need 3 crew; over 17 hours, you need 4 crew.
AOR rules are that over 12 hours, you need 3 and over 14, you need 4.
Labor Law says over 8 you need 3, over 12 you need 4.

CI currently uses the most lenient rule set to govern crew scheduling.
 
MRYapproach
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:50 pm

I've done 21 SFO-TPE roundtrips in the last 7 years. First time was CI because BR only had middle seats in Economy. Also CI was still flying 747s, and it turned out to be my final flight on Queen. (fingers crossed for a Lufthansa 747-8i at some point) A co-worker told me to look up CI's accident history, which made me shudder, but I thought since then that maybe that was just ancient history. This thread gives me pause and makes me glad I made the shift to BR. (Also my new firm puts us in premium economy)
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:33 pm

OA940 wrote:
Can't know if this is actually true, but if it is then this management really needs to learn how to de-escalate a situation like that. Throwing around insults will most definitely not help the situation.

Definitely need to learn this. The Chairman said in a press conference, "I refuse to allow my employees to use strikes as an ATM". Of course after this, they are now calling for his ouster (FAs, Ground Staff, and Pilots).
 
FlyHappy
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:50 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Sounds as if what the pilots want and what FAA say is the same.

There are 3 different sets of rules governing crew duty time.

MOTC rules are that over 12 hours, you need 3 crew; over 17 hours, you need 4 crew.
AOR rules are that over 12 hours, you need 3 and over 14, you need 4.
Labor Law says over 8 you need 3, over 12 you need 4.

CI currently uses the most lenient rule set to govern crew scheduling.


from my cursory reading of Taiwanese CAA regs, they look fairly typical (see below). what I could not find are any nuances of 'scheduled start time' adjustments (concession for early am/late pm ops). Is it possible that CI is asking pilots for late sign ins (like under 1 hour), to maximize the duty period?

Article 38

Flight duty period limitations of flight crew:
1. Single flight crew. An operator may assign a pilot to a flight duty period up to 12 consecutive hours for domestic flights or a flight duty period up to 14 consecutive hours for international flights. If the domestic and international flights are dispatched during single assignment, duty time limitation should follow that of international flights.
2. Multiple flight crew. An operator may assign a pilot to a flight duty period up to 18 consecutive hours.
3. Double flight crew. An operator may assign a pilot to a flight duty period up to 24 consecutive hours.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:54 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
- Hire local pilots before hiring foreign pilots (CI has a hiring freeze for local pilots but is actively recruiting expats in 2019)

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201902010024.aspx



can you elaborate on this?
seems unusual, as I would assume expat pilots are typically more expensive than local talent... is that not the case for CI, or what is the supposed motivation by management?
Last edited by FlyHappy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Shanasta
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:58 pm

What is the rumour that CI Cargo Pilots are not part of this strike and are supplementing PAX flying...sorry if I missed this answer.
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:14 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
- Hire local pilots before hiring foreign pilots (CI has a hiring freeze for local pilots but is actively recruiting expats in 2019)

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201902010024.aspx



can you elaborate on this?
seems unusual, as I would assume expat pilots are typically more expensive than local talent... is that not the case for CI, or what is the supposed motivation by management?

It’s believed CI is doing this for labor reasons. Expats cannot join unions in TW, and if the representation count drops below 50%, the union is no longer valid. These last few years, mgmt hasn’t had contentious relations with every work group, which has led to some pretty terrible working environments because they retaliate each time the union holds a public session.
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:18 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Sounds as if what the pilots want and what FAA say is the same.

There are 3 different sets of rules governing crew duty time.

MOTC rules are that over 12 hours, you need 3 crew; over 17 hours, you need 4 crew.
AOR rules are that over 12 hours, you need 3 and over 14, you need 4.
Labor Law says over 8 you need 3, over 12 you need 4.

CI currently uses the most lenient rule set to govern crew scheduling.


from my cursory reading of Taiwanese CAA regs, they look fairly typical (see below). what I could not find are any nuances of 'scheduled start time' adjustments (concession for early am/late pm ops). Is it possible that CI is asking pilots for late sign ins (like under 1 hour), to maximize the duty period?

Article 38

Flight duty period limitations of flight crew:
1. Single flight crew. An operator may assign a pilot to a flight duty period up to 12 consecutive hours for domestic flights or a flight duty period up to 14 consecutive hours for international flights. If the domestic and international flights are dispatched during single assignment, duty time limitation should follow that of international flights.
2. Multiple flight crew. An operator may assign a pilot to a flight duty period up to 18 consecutive hours.
3. Double flight crew. An operator may assign a pilot to a flight duty period up to 24 consecutive hours.

Duty time for pilots at CI include an extra 2.5 hours prior to the flight and another 60 minutes after landing.

The 2.5 prior is for briefing and transportation time to the airport from the dispatch center and the hour after is for immigration and commute time.

The CAA rules are AOR operation rules, which differ from the Labor Law and the MOTC rules. It’s a very confusing system CI and BR take advantage of. Currently, CI uses MOTC rules, which are the most lenient of them all and allows for greater “flexibility”.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:40 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
- Hire local pilots before hiring foreign pilots (CI has a hiring freeze for local pilots but is actively recruiting expats in 2019)

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201902010024.aspx



can you elaborate on this?
seems unusual, as I would assume expat pilots are typically more expensive than local talent... is that not the case for CI, or what is the supposed motivation by management?

It’s believed CI is doing this for labor reasons. Expats cannot join unions in TW, and if the representation count drops below 50%, the union is no longer valid. These last few years, mgmt hasn’t had contentious relations with every work group, which has led to some pretty terrible working environments because they retaliate each time the union holds a public session.


"Expats cannot join unions in TW"
well, as if labor law isn't already complicated enough (everywhere in the world).... are non-union expat CI pilots working under any terms differently than their local, union coworkers? Are local pilots that choose not to join the pilots union (I assume this to be possible) treated any differently by management?
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:51 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:


can you elaborate on this?
seems unusual, as I would assume expat pilots are typically more expensive than local talent... is that not the case for CI, or what is the supposed motivation by management?

It’s believed CI is doing this for labor reasons. Expats cannot join unions in TW, and if the representation count drops below 50%, the union is no longer valid. These last few years, mgmt hasn’t had contentious relations with every work group, which has led to some pretty terrible working environments because they retaliate each time the union holds a public session.


"Expats cannot join unions in TW"
well, as if labor law isn't already complicated enough (everywhere in the world).... are non-union expat CI pilots working under any terms differently than their local, union coworkers? Are local pilots that choose not to join the pilots union (I assume this to be possible) treated any differently by management?

Yes. If there is a labor contract, only those part of the union can benefit because unions will do this to prevent "freeloading". Expats are working under different terms; the terms are more lenient and compensation obviously better than locals. You cannot force people to join a union in TW (basically right-to-work) so those not under the terms are under the current employment contract.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:59 pm

hayzel777 wrote:
Yes. If there is a labor contract, only those part of the union can benefit because unions will do this to prevent "freeloading". Expats are working under different terms; the terms are more lenient and compensation obviously better than locals. You cannot force people to join a union in TW (basically right-to-work) so those not under the terms are under the current employment contract.


Appreciate the info. I don't suppose you have details on employment terms for union vs non-union local CI pilots?
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:21 am

hayzel777 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
- Hire local pilots before hiring foreign pilots (CI has a hiring freeze for local pilots but is actively recruiting expats in 2019)

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201902010024.aspx



can you elaborate on this?
seems unusual, as I would assume expat pilots are typically more expensive than local talent... is that not the case for CI, or what is the supposed motivation by management?

It’s believed CI is doing this for labor reasons. Expats cannot join unions in TW, and if the representation count drops below 50%, the union is no longer valid. These last few years, mgmt hasn’t had contentious relations with every work group, which has led to some pretty terrible working environments because they retaliate each time the union holds a public session.

According to Google it seems like they have changed the law in 2010 to make it possible for expats to form labor union, yet the process remain extremely difficult that it appears for the past 10 years only 2 unions for expats were formed successfully in the entire Taiwan.
 
hayzel777
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:01 am

FlyHappy wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
Yes. If there is a labor contract, only those part of the union can benefit because unions will do this to prevent "freeloading". Expats are working under different terms; the terms are more lenient and compensation obviously better than locals. You cannot force people to join a union in TW (basically right-to-work) so those not under the terms are under the current employment contract.


Appreciate the info. I don't suppose you have details on employment terms for union vs non-union local CI pilots?

Currently, they are the same for all locals. However, after this strike (and if it is successful), that will change.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:17 am

hayzel777 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
hayzel777 wrote:
Yes. If there is a labor contract, only those part of the union can benefit because unions will do this to prevent "freeloading". Expats are working under different terms; the terms are more lenient and compensation obviously better than locals. You cannot force people to join a union in TW (basically right-to-work) so those not under the terms are under the current employment contract.


Appreciate the info. I don't suppose you have details on employment terms for union vs non-union local CI pilots?

Currently, they are the same for all locals. However, after this strike (and if it is successful), that will change.


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... I think I see now. This is politically deep and extends far beyond mere pilots.
Most interesting.
 
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UPlog
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:39 pm

3rd day of strike. 47 flights cancelled

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pilot-st ... 39004.html

Here in the U.S., IBT has made statement that U.S pilots at airlines like ABX, Atlas, etc won't cross CI picket lines.
 
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:48 am

CI consider axing lost-making flights/routes if strike continues
 
juliuswong
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:12 am

c933103 wrote:
CI consider axing lost-making flights/routes if strike continues

Not a very smart idea ain't it? This will no doubt infuriate many passengers.
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eta unknown
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:17 am

c933103 wrote:
CI consider axing lost-making flights/routes if strike continues

Isn't that like half the network?!? Sounds like a hollow threat.
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:29 am

CI claims that out of 600+ striking pilots, 100 of them have returned to their position and thus they will be able to operate all flights normally tomorrow despite the strike still continues.
 
c933103
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:04 pm

So agreement have been reached and strike is now ended, including clause that bar further strike in the next 3.5 years
 
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LAXintl
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Re: China Airlines (CI) Pilots Overwhelmingly Approve Strike

Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:39 pm

Some details from ATW regarding the agreement:

During the fourth round of negotiations, the airline agreed to the union’s primary demands of allocating more pilots for long-haul flights—three pilots for flights lasting longer than eight hours and four pilots for flights lasting longer than 12 hours.
China Airlines will also study the possibility of suspending the recruitment of foreign captains for two years, in favor of local pilots, although the hiring of foreign first officer will continue. Similarly, local pilots will have priority during promotion evaluations.
In addition, the carrier agreed to providing more transparent first-officer training programs and promotion tracks, prohibiting penalizing union members for participating in industry actions, and guaranteeing full year-end bonus packages for employees.


http://atwonline.com/labor/china-airlin ... ong-strike
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AntonioMartin
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China Airlines pilot strike...any effects??

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:02 am

forgive me if it is discussed already but I searched and found nothing....anyways, China Airlines' pilots' strike.....what effect do you think will have on that airline's operations....and how about Eva Air, will they benefit from it??

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