According to Sky News (in Arabic) a Pipper46 disappeared over the English chanel. One of the passengers on board was a football (soccer) player who just signed a new contract with Cardiff football club for 17 million Euros Emiliano Sala.
https://news.sky.com/story/cardiff-city ... e-11614303

Just showed up on CNN's front page. It was a Malibu and lost contact over Jersey at 2,300. No other details

Uk coastguard have been assisting and had deployed the sar chopper based at NQY to the area
cs

A PA-46 flying NTE - CWL should be around FL250 half way into the flight so it does appear problems arose well before it went to the Channel Islands region. Presume it was attempting an unscheduled landing at JER.
The Solent SAR chopper was also scrambled last night in the search.

All over BBC News currently on UK television. The search is ongoing and will likely be suspended at dusk.

5000ft and requesting descent doesn't sound like normal ops.

If they had trouble, it is odd that nothing was communicated, but perhaps it allowed a controlled descent (which could end it them being found alive).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe ... y-46954922

Does not sound hopeful.

Firstly, given that their approximate location being known means it should be easy to find them.

Secondly, assuming that they did not land somewhere, (which seems unlikely) then they are in the drink.

Temperatures have been close to freezing the last few days. I doubt that they would survive long in the sea.

After the Leicester helicopter crash, it's been a grim season in the UK for football and aviation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaMia_Flight_2933

Without forgetting this flight.

CXfirst wrote:

5000ft and requesting descent doesn't sound like normal ops.

That sounds like airframe icing.

I am not familiar, is the PA-46 certified for known icing?

longhauler wrote:

CXfirst wrote:

5000ft and requesting descent doesn't sound like normal ops.

That sounds like airframe icing.

I am not familiar, is the PA-46 certified for known icing?

Yes, it is.

I does seem strange that they were flying so low when heading out over the English Channel.
There are airfields on Alderney, Jersey and Guernsey so I wonder why it didn't divert if it ran into icing problems.
I would have thought the Malibu would have been equipped with an Emergency locator beacon as well as a life raft.
Does not look promising... ditching in the Channel at night. ;(

Sounds like icing but we will probably never know.

I pray for the best for Emiliano and wish that he and the pilot are found safe and well.
Unfortunately he might be 2019's first football/soccer aviation victim.

As said earlier, the last 18 months of aviation have been "slightly" unkind to the sport of football.
However it makes me question,do these highly paid sportsmen tend to influence their clubs/agents into arranging inferior transport for the mission?

LaMia was the direct result of scheduling a mission/operation beyond aircraft capability(range).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaMia_Flight_2933
Now this case, flying NTE-CWL in a Malibu, at night, over the Channel.

Let's see what the CAA has to say when the investigation is done.

Search suspended

cs

This certainly doesn't look good. Hoping that this story has a happy ending.

Does anyone know the registration of the plane? Was it a modern one or an old one? Also whether it was a Turboprop or Piston is a big difference?

Aircraft parts have been found:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... d-channel/

Desperately sad.

I couldn't find much details, but there was only the footballer and the pilot, so we can't rule out a health issue with the pilot.

Also the footballer had flown a leg on the same aircraft before, and had been shaken by it, he told a former teammate he was uneasy about the return flight.

TheSonntag wrote:

Sounds like icing but we will probably never know.

Malibu's are also know for having crankshaft problems.

Vast profits, huge margins, massive personal wealth and they cheaped out on travel. A bit like Aaliyah flying a clapped out twin piston yet her body was flown home on a fancy biz jet.

Some things just don’t make sense. If you’ve got the money then fly in safety or fly commercial.

I recently watched a documentary on Lynyrd Skynyrd and same issue, huge tour and huge dollars but they chose to fly a rusting hulk and it flew them right into terrain. At least get yourself in a Pilatus if you're going to go single prop..sad story and a terrible post in social media from him saying goodbye to his Nantes teammates..picture captioned by him "The Last Goodbye".

NTE - CWL is only just over 300 miles so with just the one passenger, a PA-46 should be ideal for the job.

Aircraft has been reported as being N264DB.

According to aviation-safety.net aircraft owner is Southern Aircraft Consultancy.

Another case of a clueless general reporter. To these ignoramuses, all planes are jets. Maybe trying to be too smart. Not the first and certainly won't be the last. Sigh!

Cardiff City football player Emiliano Sala may have flown back to France to farewell former teammates before boarding a private jet that crashed in the English Channel.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/cardiffs-record-new-signing-emiliano-sala-has-been-confirmed-missing-after-his-plane-disappeared-over-the-english-channel/news-story/7dcaa78471618a25af9e21a077ffde91

george77300 wrote:

Does anyone know the registration of the plane? Was it a modern one or an old one? Also whether it was a Turboprop or Piston is a big difference?

Per the registration it was a Continental piston.

Rbgso wrote:

george77300 wrote:

Does anyone know the registration of the plane? Was it a modern one or an old one? Also whether it was a Turboprop or Piston is a big difference?

Per the registration it was a Continental piston.

When I posted registration was unknown. I'm aware now, but thanks anyway.

wingman wrote:

I recently watched a documentary on Lynyrd Skynyrd and same issue, huge tour and huge dollars but they chose to fly a rusting hulk and it flew them right into terrain.

Don't be too harsh on old rock groups; things were different back in the day. Managers and record companies were making loadsamoney, but the artists themselves less so. Aerosmith had been in line to charter the exact same aircraft & crew (N55VM), and Kiss were flying in a sister ship (Convair CV-240 N295M) at almost the same time. For that matter, some airlines were still using them too.

And the Rolling Stones, after headlining an episode of the BBC Top of the Pops show up in Manchester, had to argue their case for having their second-class rail tickets upgraded to first class. Ok, so this was back in ca 1965, but for them a taxi was out of the question, let alone air-tickets.

Getting back to Lynyrd Skynyrd and 1977; the FAA were still using their early model CV-240s, and both USN and USAF were still flying marginally younger frames. In fact the USN models included VC-131B / C-131Fs to transport their senior personnel. This immaculate admiral's barge was the VIP transport for their top man, Commander-in-Chief Allied Forces Southern Europe, still going strong in 1982.


As for this Argentinian soccer player; maybe he was the innocent victim of bad advice. In places the English Channel (La Manche) is narrow enough that you can almost paddle across it. Unfortunately the section he was crossing involved a considerably longer overwater sector, but as an Argentine in France, brought up in a generation who don't need to look at maps because sat navs do everything for them, how would he possibly know that? The pilot of the PA-46 isn't going to tell him "look mate, you're worth millions, this is a 300 mile flight half of it over water, you should hire a Lear Jet"

N264DB in Spain, 2010

Does this small plane have a ping device?

longhauler wrote:

CXfirst wrote:

5000ft and requesting descent doesn't sound like normal ops.

That sounds like airframe icing.

I am not familiar, is the PA-46 certified for known icing?

Yes, it's certificated into known icing but I'd much rather be flying something with gobs of bleed-air anti-ice than a light plane with rubber-a-go-go. Supposedly the Malibus with Lycoming engines climb a little better than those early ones with the Continental engines. In either case it takes an eternity to get to FL-250.

Here is a youtube video of a Malibu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQ1o939r3w

highflier92660 wrote:

Here is a youtube video of a Malibu

That's a very interesting video ... watching the IAD drop about 25 knots when picking up ice!

Honestly, the only "known icing" aircraft I have flown have been jet transport aircraft. Icing is a "consideration" but never a "concern".

But I do remember my Dad talking about icing. He was also an airline pilot. It was beyond my comprehension when he stated that it wasn't until moving to the Viscount after the DC-4M and L1049G that icing was no longer a concern of his! Watching that video ... I would definitely be "concerned".

FlapsOne wrote:

Vast profits, huge margins, massive personal wealth and they cheaped out on travel. A bit like Aaliyah flying a clapped out twin piston yet her body was flown home on a fancy biz jet.

Some things just don’t make sense. If you’ve got the money then fly in safety or fly commercial.

The plane was hired by Cardiff football club and not the player

SOBHI51 wrote:

FlapsOne wrote:

Vast profits, huge margins, massive personal wealth and they cheaped out on travel. A bit like Aaliyah flying a clapped out twin piston yet her body was flown home on a fancy biz jet.

Some things just don’t make sense. If you’ve got the money then fly in safety or fly commercial.

The plane was hired by Cardiff football club and not the player

They must feel like crap right now. Obviously not their fault but who wants to book the flight of a crash victim?

highflier92660 wrote:

longhauler wrote:

CXfirst wrote:

5000ft and requesting descent doesn't sound like normal ops.

That sounds like airframe icing.

I am not familiar, is the PA-46 certified for known icing?

Yes, it's certificated into known icing but I'd much rather be flying something with gobs of bleed-air anti-ice than a light plane with rubber-a-go-go. Supposedly the Malibus with Lycoming engines climb a little better than those early ones with the Continental engines. In either case it takes an eternity to get to FL-250.

Here is a youtube video of a Malibu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQ1o939r3w

So, no 787 for you? No ATR or Dash 8 either?

WayexTDI wrote:

highflier92660 wrote:

longhauler wrote:

That sounds like airframe icing.

I am not familiar, is the PA-46 certified for known icing?

Yes, it's certificated into known icing but I'd much rather be flying something with gobs of bleed-air anti-ice than a light plane with rubber-a-go-go. Supposedly the Malibus with Lycoming engines climb a little better than those early ones with the Continental engines. In either case it takes an eternity to get to FL-250.

Here is a youtube video of a Malibu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQ1o939r3w

So, no 787 for you? No ATR or Dash 8 either?

Boeing 787 electro-thermal anti-icing yes. As for the ATR recall the American Eagle flight 4184 dust-up over what percentage of the mean aerodynamic chord the deice boots covered? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... light_4184

highflier92660 wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

highflier92660 wrote:

Yes, it's certificated into known icing but I'd much rather be flying something with gobs of bleed-air anti-ice than a light plane with rubber-a-go-go. Supposedly the Malibus with Lycoming engines climb a little better than those early ones with the Continental engines. In either case it takes an eternity to get to FL-250.

Here is a youtube video of a Malibu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQ1o939r3w

So, no 787 for you? No ATR or Dash 8 either?

Boeing 787 electro-thermo anti-icing yes. As for the ATR recall the American Eagle flight 4184 dust-up over what percentage of the mean aerodynamic chord the deice boots covered? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ ... light_4184

You mentioned bleed air only, so I was wondering about the 787.

As far as the ATR, the original boots that contributed to American Eagle 4184 were subject an an AD and are no longer allowed to be installed. The ATR has been recertified for flying in known icing conditions.

After that crash, it appears all the crashed on aircraft with deicing boots and icing conditions were due to the pilots not following proper procedures; and not aircraft design shortfalls.

in european media they brought the info that the player sent a voice message to his friends an family as the plane comes into trouble.
the father is told to confirm that the message is from him

article is in german
feel free to google translate

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/emiliano ... 49425.html
https://www.blick.ch/sport/luftverkehr- ... 31272.html

SOBHI51 wrote:

The plane was hired by Cardiff football club and not the player

They pay $15 million for the guy and fly him over the Channel on a piston single in winter?

Bloody-freaking-hell...

[quote="WayexTDI"
After that crash, it appears all the crashed on aircraft with deicing boots and icing conditions were due to the pilots not following proper procedures; and not aircraft design shortfalls.[/quote]

And yet, it's a big lie.

One of NASA's whoppers.

A big push came out to dispell the "myth" of "ice bridging," in which ice reportedly is pushed out by a boot to form a shell, over which. more ice forms, and which can not be broken by the inflatable boot. This doesn't exist, the world was told, and pilots should turn on the boots at the first sign of icing. The older method, of waiting until adequate ice had formed to be brittle, was to be discarded.

The problem is, ice bridging absolutely does exist. I've seen it personally on far too many occasions to buy into the nonsense that it's not a concern.

Add to that the fact that nearly all boots, save for new installations, have numerous pinpoints where leaks occur and boot efficiency is seldom what it's expected to be. With boots, it's very possible to clear part of the airfoil, but not the rest, or to have ice form along the boot, break it, and have ice continue to form aft of the boot.

An advantage that high speed turbine aircraft have over slower piston or turboprop aircraft is thin wings, and less "wetted area" exposed to the slipstream upon which to build ice. This means less surface needs to be deiced, and ice tends to form in a narrow strip along the leading edge of the airfoil, rather than across the wider area that a boot needs to over. Turbine aircraft fly faster, and have a ram air temperature rise, and climb higher, often spending little time in icing conditions. Turbine aircraft also have bleed air and more sophisticated and redundant anti-ice and de-ice systems.

Light airplanes spend most of their time in ideal icing ranges, where higher rates of accumulation can be expected, while flying with less effective systems for removal or prevention. Light airplanes lack excess thrust or performance, especially when gathering ice. Additionally, what constitutes light to moderate ice on a large turbine airplane might be severe icing on a light airplane; severe icing by definition is icing which exceeds the capability of the airplane to remove or prevent. Short story: it doesn't take a lot of ice to take away the climb performance of a light airplane.

A light single engine piston engine airplane in instrument conditions, in ice isn't really the wisest of ideas; aside from the single engine and a guaranteed forced landing or ditching in the event of an engine failure, systems redundancy with limited electrical power, instrumentation, etc, can rapidly reduce or eliminate options when things go pear-shaped.

Francoflier wrote:

SOBHI51 wrote:

The plane was hired by Cardiff football club and not the player

They pay $15 million for the guy and fly him over the Channel on a piston single in winter?

Bloody-freaking-hell...

I am not surprised. Bear in mind many of those soccer club owners have made money by "cutting corners", so they are used to spend as little as possible in details. For instance, your typical construction developer. Also many of those "successful" people usually think they know better than anyone else (probably this could help explaining the Leicester helicopter crash).

It's well to remember that simply because an airplane is certified for known ice doesn't mean it should be flown in ice, and that icing conditions can quickly overwhelm such systems.

SOBHI51 wrote:

FlapsOne wrote:

Vast profits, huge margins, massive personal wealth and they cheaped out on travel. A bit like Aaliyah flying a clapped out twin piston yet her body was flown home on a fancy biz jet.

Some things just don’t make sense. If you’ve got the money then fly in safety or fly commercial.

The plane was hired by Cardiff football club and not the player

I know that thanks. When I mentioned vast profits and vast (profit) margins I wasn't referring to the player.

Warmest Regards.
FlapsOne

Hope they are found and fine!

bennett123 wrote:

According to aviation-safety.net aircraft owner is Southern Aircraft Consultancy.

That's not really the owner, that's a UK-based company with a US Delaware subsidiary that acts as an trust for keeping aircraft on the N-reg. They take-care of all the paperwork and admin. It also acts as a handy proxy for privacy. The owner in turn pays an annual subscription to SAC.

This particular one was based at Gamston in England.

Does remind me of the Buddy Holly accident. Except the Bonanza was a much more advanced contraption back then than a piston Malibu now.
Personally I'd rather take a night ferry with no cabin over crossing the channel at night in a single prop.

Consider the route flown, it doesn't have any kind of direct public transportation alternative, you need to go through CDG or AMS.

Francoflier wrote:

SOBHI51 wrote:

The plane was hired by Cardiff football club and not the player

They pay $15 million for the guy and fly him over the Channel on a piston single in winter?

Bloody-freaking-hell...

I wouldn't blame the club who wouldn't know about aircraft safety. Blame the operator for proposing the route, especially at night and in winter.

Anyway, isn't Europe about to relax rules about single engined commercial flights?

oldannyboy wrote:

Except the Bonanza was a much more advanced contraption back then than a piston Malibu now.

It really wasn't. Not in terms of performance, payload, climb, speed, headroom, pressurization, or range. The Malibu exceeds the Bonanza in all those respects, and the nav capabilities in current airplanes far exceeds that of the Bonanza in the day of Buddy Holly.

SOBHI51 wrote:

FlapsOne wrote:

Vast profits, huge margins, massive personal wealth and they cheaped out on travel. A bit like Aaliyah flying a clapped out twin piston yet her body was flown home on a fancy biz jet.

Some things just don’t make sense. If you’ve got the money then fly in safety or fly commercial.

The plane was hired by Cardiff football club and not the player[/advisorsJust heard on the radio (Talk Sports) here in UK that the plane was not hired by the club.
Apparently is common in this cases for the player advisors to hire the plane, etc. And present the club with the bill for all the relocation costs.
Still not clear though who hired the plane.