American Airlines 767-300ER Routes/Replacement

EarlyLateORD · Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:13 pm

With the imminent retirement of the AA 763 fleet on the horizon, is there any risk of the destinations they serve being canceled once the 763 is retired? Are there routes that can be flown profitably on a paid off 763, that may not be able to support the costs of a 788? AA has had quite a retrenchment in South America due to 757 retirement, local economic issues, etc. ASU-MIA, CNF-MIA, POA-MIA have been dropped as well as LPB.

Examples

MIA-COR (launching soon)
MIA-MVD (convinced this route will continue with a 788.

Adam

geosnail · Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:15 pm

A332 will operate the seasonal PHL-PRG route from May.

American 767 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:33 pm

JFK-CDG and JFK-MAD are switching to the 77E in March, not sure of the exact date. It appears that afterwards, the only route out of JFK on the 763 will be JFK-MIA. JFK-DFW has see the 763 lately also, but I don't know how long that will last, normally that flight is a 738.

Boof02671 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:35 pm

I believe a 788 cost less to operate than a 763.

sargester · Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:56 pm

MIA- JFK/PHL/ORD will mostly be flown by 737/A321s this upcoming summer with more seasonal European flying on the 767 and have more operational flexibility with that aircraft type, granted one frequency of the MIA JFK flying will be a 777-200ER from here on out, also PHL MAN and ZRH will be going from a 763 to a 788 come November

1337Delta764 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:33 pm

I recently did a thread asking what will happen to the 763 on MIA-SJU. That flight is primarily for cargo purposes; one of the FAs on an SJU-MIA flight said he believes it will go to an A330.

Boof02671 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:42 pm

The 333s will be retired at the end of 2020.

Miamiairport · Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:25 pm

Some of the SA routes might to with the MAX, those that are within its range. Or the 75L. Some routes will get upgauged to the 772. At this point there's no plans to bring the 788 to MIA although eventually it will end up in MIA. The think MIA will be the last base for the 763.

RyanairGuru · Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:43 pm

I wouldn't be shocked to see the 332s eventually migrate to MIA, with PHL TATL becoming all 788 and 772. The relatively low J seat count and lower capital cost compared to a brand new 787 make them well suited to the LatAm market IMHO.

Buffalomatt1027 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:54 pm

EarlyLateORD wrote:
With the imminent retirement of the AA 763 fleet on the horizon, is there any risk of the destinations they serve being canceled once the 763 is retired? Are there routes that can be flown profitably on a paid off 763, that may not be able to support the costs of a 788? AA has had quite a retrenchment in South America due to 757 retirement, local economic issues, etc. ASU-MIA, CNF-MIA, POA-MIA have been dropped as well as LPB.

Examples

MIA-COR (launching soon)
MIA-MVD (convinced this route will continue with a 788.

Adam

Took a flight from Philly to Portugal on an America 767 this summer ..... those planes are so old and out of date interior wise. The A330 flight from Rome back to Philly was a much better experience.

American would have to do a full cabin overhaul and updating for all of those planes.

SteelChair · Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:00 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
I believe a 788 cost less to operate than a 763.

Well yeah, but what about acquisition costs?

And the suboptimal operation of a 788 on 763 routes? 788 OEW almost 50,000 lbs more than 763. 787 will fly 8,000nm, how does that work out on 700nm routes?

Just sayin.

Imagine a 763 sized airplane with modern engine tech, ie., 757 fuel burn.

Your comment really leads into the new midsized airplane argument all over again.

Cointrin330 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:05 pm

AA will likely position / rotate some 77Es on JFK-MIA as well, to compensate for the loss of a wide body on the route, particularly in Northern Hemisphere winter.

B1168 · Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:38 pm

They have 1D worth of DFW-JFK nonstop in 763s. Will they upgrade it to a 787-8? Or will they downgrade it to some narrowbody planes?

EarlyLateORD · Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:20 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked to see the 332s eventually migrate to MIA, with PHL TATL becoming all 788 and 772. The relatively low J seat count and lower capital cost compared to a brand new 787 make them well suited to the LatAm market IMHO.

Honestly, that isn't a bad idea. Its essentially what DL is doing in Latin America. Routes like MIA-LIM really need some decent cargo capacity beyond what a 737Max can provide. I recently flew the 763 MIA-MVD, but in Biz. The biz cabin is nice in my opinion. Not excessively filled with gadgets and screens. I could care less about the food or service, I just want to sleep in a 180-degree position. I dont think I could handle it in coach though, the economy cabin looked like something out the 1990's...

Adam

PHLspecial · Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:31 am

Boof02671 wrote:
The 333s will be retired at the end of 2020.

Now the A333 will retire in 2023

acentauri · Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:06 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
The 333s will be retired at the end of 2020.

Now the A333 will retire in 2023

Source ?? The previous official statement was a push out from mid-2020 to end of 2020.

Swadian · Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:35 am

SteelChair wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
I believe a 788 cost less to operate than a 763.

Well yeah, but what about acquisition costs?

And the suboptimal operation of a 788 on 763 routes? 788 OEW almost 50,000 lbs more than 763. 787 will fly 8,000nm, how does that work out on 700nm routes?

Just sayin.

Imagine a 763 sized airplane with modern engine tech, ie., 757 fuel burn.

Your comment really leads into the new midsized airplane argument all over again.

Absurd! AA uses neither 763 nor 788 on 700nm routes on a regular basis, nor does AA operate any 8000 nm routes.

acentauri wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
The 333s will be retired at the end of 2020.

Now the A333 will retire in 2023

Source ?? The previous official statement was a push out from mid-2020 to end of 2020.

Yeah, that's what I thought as well.

EarlyLateORD wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked to see the 332s eventually migrate to MIA, with PHL TATL becoming all 788 and 772. The relatively low J seat count and lower capital cost compared to a brand new 787 make them well suited to the LatAm market IMHO.

Honestly, that isn't a bad idea. Its essentially what DL is doing in Latin America. Routes like MIA-LIM really need some decent cargo capacity beyond what a 737Max can provide. I recently flew the 763 MIA-MVD, but in Biz. The biz cabin is nice in my opinion. Not excessively filled with gadgets and screens. I could care less about the food or service, I just want to sleep in a 180-degree position. I dont think I could handle it in coach though, the economy cabin looked like something out the 1990's...

Adam

I believe AA will use 75L on all flights to LIM once 763 is retired. A332 for routes out of 75L reach like COR and MVD. Heavier markets 77E.

chonetsao · Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:52 am

acentauri wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
The 333s will be retired at the end of 2020.

Now the A333 will retire in 2023

Source ?? The previous official statement was a push out from mid-2020 to end of 2020.

One of the quarterly result mentioned the A333 retirement to be delayed beyond 2022. I can not remember which quarter, but it has to be 2 to 5 quarters ago. The new order of B787s earlier in 2018 will start delivery in coordinate the departure of the A333. I don't have time to find the course of the A333 delayed retirement as I have to catch a plane, but I am sure someone else could. It is all in AAL quarterly result and presentations.

digitalcloud · Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:48 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked to see the 332s eventually migrate to MIA, with PHL TATL becoming all 788 and 772. The relatively low J seat count and lower capital cost compared to a brand new 787 make them well suited to the LatAm market IMHO.

Too many thin, less premium-heavy routes of out of PHL for that to happen like SNN and EDI.

Boof02671 · Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:08 am

The latest fleet plan shows the end of 2020

https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-767-re ... ins-a330s/

prchan · Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:15 am

Boof02671 wrote:
The latest fleet plan shows the end of 2020

https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-767-re ... ins-a330s/

In the article:

Keeping the A330-300s: The plan was to retire all nine of AA’s A330-300s in 2020 to help simplify the fleet. Now, those retirement plans are on hold. The airline plans to keep all A330-300 through the end of 2020.

Fleet plan filed by AA to SEC in October/2018:
https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/static-files/79c1fed0-cc35-4cb8-9b4c-69163aed6496

In these latest fleet plans (going until end 2020), the A330 fleet is still counted.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2018/American-Airlines-Expands-Boeing-787-Fleet/default.aspx
https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-confirms-dreamliner-order-cancels-a350/
Newly ordered 789s, which are supposed to replace the A330s, are scheduled to start deliveries in 2023.

Here is the rationale to assume A330s will not be retired before 2023.

Boof02671 · Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:29 am

Year end. That still means they can be removed.

The 787 order was for 763 replacement

Boof02671 · Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:36 am

Original plan was 2017 and 2018, now it’s 2020

Here is the original plan.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ameri ... 2016-05-16

usairways85 · Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:41 pm

sargester wrote:
MIA- JFK/PHL/ORD will mostly be flown by 737/A321s this upcoming summer with more seasonal European flying on the 767 and have more operational flexibility with that aircraft type, granted one frequency of the MIA JFK flying will be a 777-200ER from here on out, also PHL MAN and ZRH will be going from a 763 to a 788 come November

PHL and MIA continue to be the 763 bases and I do not believe they share any 763 destination. So in order to rotate the fleet between the two, there will continue to be 763 rotations MIA-PHL.

MrGtheSheepA346 · Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:31 pm

What about the 763 used from Philadelphia to AMS?

Pi7472000 · Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Hopefully they upgrade or retire these 767s soon! I go to MVD all the time and fly LAN now instead of nonstop from MIA from MVD. Those planes are outdated and uncomfortable for the fares charged. Also, the soft product is awful compared to LAN in both classes. American def. needs to improve its service on international flights. Luckily there are choices! Would love to see Delta expand in Miami and American cut back so we could have a more premium experince.

EarlyLateORD · Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:32 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
Hopefully they upgrade or retire these 767s soon! I go to MVD all the time and fly LAN now instead of nonstop from MIA from MVD. Those planes are outdated and uncomfortable for the fares charged. Also, the soft product is awful compared to LAN in both classes. American def. needs to improve its service on international flights. Luckily there are choices! Would love to see Delta expand in Miami and American cut back so we could have a more premium experience.

I agree with you, the reason I brought up this issue in the thread of 767 retirements is that I am hopeful AA management will begin upgrading routes and not use the 767 retirements to cut them. Couldnt agree with you more on LAN, great airline and a quality product.

Its just my opinion, but it seems the new AA (ex US management) doesn't seem to understand the MIA-Latin America product as well as the past AA management did, based on simple per mile fares, Latin America has propped up AA for decades while they lost money on Asia.

I am also optimistic that the relaxing of Brazilian visa's might help that market. Yes, Brazil's economy has been through hell, but their tourism industry still doesn't attract the number of Americans that it should. The visa issue was one major factor, as well as fear of crime. I wonder if we could see some routes like CWB/POA come back with perhaps an onwards tag to MVD. MIA-CWB-MVD for example.

Adam

Boof02671 · Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:38 pm

Ok I’m wrong I only work in Maintenance.

chepos · Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:54 am

EarlyLateORD wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Hopefully they upgrade or retire these 767s soon! I go to MVD all the time and fly LAN now instead of nonstop from MIA from MVD. Those planes are outdated and uncomfortable for the fares charged. Also, the soft product is awful compared to LAN in both classes. American def. needs to improve its service on international flights. Luckily there are choices! Would love to see Delta expand in Miami and American cut back so we could have a more premium experience.

I agree with you, the reason I brought up this issue in the thread of 767 retirements is that I am hopeful AA management will begin upgrading routes and not use the 767 retirements to cut them. Couldnt agree with you more on LAN, great airline and a quality product.

Its just my opinion, but it seems the new AA (ex US management) doesn't seem to understand the MIA-Latin America product as well as the past AA management did, based on simple per mile fares, Latin America has propped up AA for decades while they lost money on Asia.

I am also optimistic that the relaxing of Brazilian visa's might help that market. Yes, Brazil's economy has been through hell, but their tourism industry still doesn't attract the number of Americans that it should. The visa issue was one major factor, as well as fear of crime. I wonder if we could see some routes like CWB/POA come back with perhaps an onwards tag to MVD. MIA-CWB-MVD for example.

Adam

Why would they route the flight via Brazil? The flight works well as a nonstop, it is the only nonstop between the US and Uruguay. MVD has been around for a while, once the 763 is gone that route could support the 788. As to your other examples, ASU is an expensive station to operate in, ASU came back to the network in 2013 (I believe), it appears AA could not make it work in the past could not make it work now. As to Brazil, the countries economy has been struggling, that is no secret. Secondary Brazilian cities at this time will continue to struggle until the economy in that country improves. You are already asking about whether Córdoba will survive, even before it starts?

B1168 · Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:06 am

Swadian wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
I believe a 788 cost less to operate than a 763.

Well yeah, but what about acquisition costs?

And the suboptimal operation of a 788 on 763 routes? 788 OEW almost 50,000 lbs more than 763. 787 will fly 8,000nm, how does that work out on 700nm routes?

Just sayin.

Imagine a 763 sized airplane with modern engine tech, ie., 757 fuel burn.

Your comment really leads into the new midsized airplane argument all over again.

Absurd! AA uses neither 763 nor 788 on 700nm routes on a regular basis, nor does AA operate any 8000 nm routes.

acentauri wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:

Now the A333 will retire in 2023

Source ?? The previous official statement was a push out from mid-2020 to end of 2020.

Yeah, that's what I thought as well.

EarlyLateORD wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked to see the 332s eventually migrate to MIA, with PHL TATL becoming all 788 and 772. The relatively low J seat count and lower capital cost compared to a brand new 787 make them well suited to the LatAm market IMHO.

Honestly, that isn't a bad idea. Its essentially what DL is doing in Latin America. Routes like MIA-LIM really need some decent cargo capacity beyond what a 737Max can provide. I recently flew the 763 MIA-MVD, but in Biz. The biz cabin is nice in my opinion. Not excessively filled with gadgets and screens. I could care less about the food or service, I just want to sleep in a 180-degree position. I dont think I could handle it in coach though, the economy cabin looked like something out the 1990's...

Adam

I believe AA will use 75L on all flights to LIM once 763 is retired. A332 for routes out of 75L reach like COR and MVD. Heavier markets 77E.

Then please tell me where those 4 daily ORD-DFW 787-8s have gone to. It is exactly 700nm.

TTailedTiger · Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:22 am

Swadian wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
I believe a 788 cost less to operate than a 763.

Well yeah, but what about acquisition costs?

And the suboptimal operation of a 788 on 763 routes? 788 OEW almost 50,000 lbs more than 763. 787 will fly 8,000nm, how does that work out on 700nm routes?

Just sayin.

Imagine a 763 sized airplane with modern engine tech, ie., 757 fuel burn.

Your comment really leads into the new midsized airplane argument all over again.

Absurd! AA uses neither 763 nor 788 on 700nm routes on a regular basis, nor does AA operate any 8000 nm routes.

acentauri wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:

Now the A333 will retire in 2023

Source ?? The previous official statement was a push out from mid-2020 to end of 2020.

Yeah, that's what I thought as well.

EarlyLateORD wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
I wouldn't be shocked to see the 332s eventually migrate to MIA, with PHL TATL becoming all 788 and 772. The relatively low J seat count and lower capital cost compared to a brand new 787 make them well suited to the LatAm market IMHO.

Honestly, that isn't a bad idea. Its essentially what DL is doing in Latin America. Routes like MIA-LIM really need some decent cargo capacity beyond what a 737Max can provide. I recently flew the 763 MIA-MVD, but in Biz. The biz cabin is nice in my opinion. Not excessively filled with gadgets and screens. I could care less about the food or service, I just want to sleep in a 180-degree position. I dont think I could handle it in coach though, the economy cabin looked like something out the 1990's...

Adam

I believe AA will use 75L on all flights to LIM once 763 is retired. A332 for routes out of 75L reach like COR and MVD. Heavier markets 77E.

Uh, up until very recently AA used the 763 on MIA-MCO. And that's way under 700 nm. You should do your research before making such foolish comments.

Boof02671 · Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:31 am

AA flies widebodies between CLT and PHL.

flyboy7974 · Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:34 am

And I think, I think AA does operate a route over 8000 miles, DFWHKG is 8111 miles

787 deployment on PHL-MAN/ZRH will be delayed until Jan , PHLAMS will also receive the 787

Bigant0408 · Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:03 am

flyboy7974 wrote:
And I think, I think AA does operate a route over 8000 miles, DFWHKG is 8111 miles

787 deployment on PHL-MAN/ZRH will be delayed until Jan , PHLAMS will also receive the 787

Any reason for the delay?

sargester · Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:28 pm

777PHX wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Year end. That still means they can be removed.

The 787 order was for 763 replacement

Year end means there are no current plans to remove any of them before 12/31/2020.

What's so difficult to understand here?

Don't be dense, you're wrong.

They just retired N389AA on Sunday, so your wrong...

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... a#1f3d8aee

sargester · Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:30 pm

EarlyLateORD wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Hopefully they upgrade or retire these 767s soon! I go to MVD all the time and fly LAN now instead of nonstop from MIA from MVD. Those planes are outdated and uncomfortable for the fares charged. Also, the soft product is awful compared to LAN in both classes. American def. needs to improve its service on international flights. Luckily there are choices! Would love to see Delta expand in Miami and American cut back so we could have a more premium experience.

I agree with you, the reason I brought up this issue in the thread of 767 retirements is that I am hopeful AA management will begin upgrading routes and not use the 767 retirements to cut them. Couldnt agree with you more on LAN, great airline and a quality product.

Its just my opinion, but it seems the new AA (ex US management) doesn't seem to understand the MIA-Latin America product as well as the past AA management did, based on simple per mile fares, Latin America has propped up AA for decades while they lost money on Asia.

I am also optimistic that the relaxing of Brazilian visa's might help that market. Yes, Brazil's economy has been through hell, but their tourism industry still doesn't attract the number of Americans that it should. The visa issue was one major factor, as well as fear of crime. I wonder if we could see some routes like CWB/POA come back with perhaps an onwards tag to MVD. MIA-CWB-MVD for example.

Adam

LATAM suports most of those cities for AA, and they added CNF and LBP to the list of now being flown by LATAM

sargester · Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:31 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
AA flies widebodies between CLT and PHL.

Just for the winter to move volume, they used to fly the 332 on PHL-BOS they split it into a 752 and A321

IAmGaroott · Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:05 pm

Any possibly of reshuffling A332s on more 763 routes. Will the additional 787s then be put on A332 routes?

Boof02671 · Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Here is the plan.

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... leet-plan/

MIflyer12 · Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:17 pm

IAmGaroott wrote:
Any possibly of reshuffling A332s on more 763 routes. Will the additional 787s then be put on A332 routes?

Sure, it's possible. 332s have the range to cover any 763 route. Look at the pilot bases, though. AA doesn't operate every type from every hub.

Boof02671 · Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:42 pm

They used the 330 to fly ORD-Europe and no crew base in ORD for the 330.

MIflyer12 · Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:54 pm

That doesn't mean they will seek to run out-of-base routes. It's inherently inefficient. Perhaps you've read that AA is the profit laggard among the Big 4 and wants to make more $?

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