jetblueguy22 wrote:

cedarjet wrote:

SurfandSnow wrote:

I'm not one to mind backtracking for a good fare, but as an American citizen, I immediately ruled out connecting through Russia. I've heard and read countless horror stories about connecting through SVO, and simply did not feel comfortable setting foot in Russia - even as a transit passenger (thus avoiding that complicated visa). I'm sure I'm not the only one!

Sorry that is RIDICULOUS. And shameful. Though you guys were the land of the free. But the world outside your borders is off limits apparently. Have you seen The Truman Show?

No, the ridiculous thing is your overreaction to a logical line of thinking. Russia isn’t friendly to America, that surprises nobody considering that we haven’t been friends since the early 1940s.

You like Russia, and that’s fine. I’d like to visit someday when things aren’t so tense. But right now, it makes sense. You can say everybody is putting on blinders and you for some magical reason have the clarity we all lack, but it doesn’t mean you’re right.

You can visit now, no problem. I really don’t understand what the issue is? Politics? If yes then no one should visit the US either, but hey we all do!

BuildingMyBento wrote:

I think Russia's a great place to visit. Although airport immigration at ROV (Rostov-on-Don) took me into secondary (they REALLY didn't know why I wanted to visit their city), I never encountered any issues wandering throughout Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kazan, or Rostov. In fact, Moscow is one of my favorite cities; taking the metro and visiting the older stations is fascinating, as is admiring the metropolitan Socialist architecture, and sampling Georgian and Uzbek food.

As for SU, I've flown them a few times, on their 773ER and Airbus A320s. We landed, that's what counts...ok, the food was rough, so bring a few snacks. But, now that I don't have a valid visa, the option to transit through SVO is much less tempting.

Ha ha. I had the same experience with immigration in ROV. I then mentioned to him that I am visiting my girlfriend and then he stamped my passport. Russia is a great place to visit and I would go again. When I was in ROV, I didn't feel unsafe at any stage, people were friendly, yet indifferent to the fact that you are a foreigner. I enjoyed great Russian hospitality. Language can be a barrier though.

Although US-Russia service is limited, at least it exists. Canada-Russia direct service is nonexistent (even though according to Wikipedia there are over half a million Russian-Canadians).

I am a bit surprised that Aeroflot doesn't serve YYZ at least once a week, although on the other hand Canada-Russia relations are very bad in recent years due to Ukraine so I doubt it's coming anytime soon.

trav777 wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

I think Russia's a great place to visit. Although airport immigration at ROV (Rostov-on-Don) took me into secondary (they REALLY didn't know why I wanted to visit their city), I never encountered any issues wandering throughout Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kazan, or Rostov. In fact, Moscow is one of my favorite cities; taking the metro and visiting the older stations is fascinating, as is admiring the metropolitan Socialist architecture, and sampling Georgian and Uzbek food.

As for SU, I've flown them a few times, on their 773ER and Airbus A320s. We landed, that's what counts...ok, the food was rough, so bring a few snacks. But, now that I don't have a valid visa, the option to transit through SVO is much less tempting.

Flew SU AMS-MLE thru SVO. Had no problems whatsoever.

I did J MLE-SVO for upsell at the airport. Great airline. Loved their airline promo montage on board. Flight attendants were top notch. A333.

I'm a US Citizen. Spent a night in Moscow. Great place. The slander leveled at the Russians upthread...it's shameful. No problems on the train to moscow, just didn't have any rubles to ride the Metro (#sadface). Stayed at the Savoy near Red Square. No idea why anyone would be afraid of traveling there. Certainly it was safer than Africa and Latin America, both places I've also been. Heck it is far safer than a lot of cities in the USA.

I have to agree.
Spent some time in St. Petersburg. Clean and safe.
I flew back on SAS to EWR and transferred to Penn Station Newark for the train home at about 8PM on a Sunday night.
I won't go into detail, but I can assure you quite a step down from St. Petersburg.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Russia's economy is pure garbage. I cant imagine SU makes much on Russian traffic alone. They get a lot of onward connections to places outside Russia.

Does it matter if they make losses? They're controlled by Putin after all.

anrec80 wrote:

x1234 wrote:

Nothing wrong with Aeroflot or Russia. In fact talking with my friends in Asia, Aeroflot is one of the cheapest ways to travel Asia to Europe for those on a budget.

I think the reason for these price differentials is cost of overflying Russia for non-Russian airlines - I've read somewhere it's steep and often goes into 3 figures per passenger each way. SU obviously does not have these expenses.

Perhaps Russia would increase these overflight costs in retribution for sanctions.

Russia's economy is in the toilet and there's next to no tourism demand. This is a country with a lot of people that still lack running water outside of the big cities, let alone any sort of demand for international travel.

777PHX wrote:

Russia's economy is in the toilet and there's next to no tourism demand. This is a country with a lot of people that still lack running water outside of the big cities, let alone any sort of demand for international travel.

Ever been?

jetblueguy22 wrote:

cedarjet wrote:

SurfandSnow wrote:

I'm not one to mind backtracking for a good fare, but as an American citizen, I immediately ruled out connecting through Russia. I've heard and read countless horror stories about connecting through SVO, and simply did not feel comfortable setting foot in Russia - even as a transit passenger (thus avoiding that complicated visa). I'm sure I'm not the only one!

Sorry that is RIDICULOUS. And shameful. Though you guys were the land of the free. But the world outside your borders is off limits apparently. Have you seen The Truman Show?

No, the ridiculous thing is your overreaction to a logical line of thinking. Russia isn’t friendly to America, that surprises nobody considering that we haven’t been friends since the early 1940s.

You like Russia, and that’s fine. I’d like to visit someday when things aren’t so tense. But right now, it makes sense. You can say everybody is putting on blinders and you for some magical reason have the clarity we all lack, but it doesn’t mean you’re right.

You're overreacting. The country is exceedingly corrupt and poorly governed, and I'm not arguing that the country is ripe for foreign investment now, but it's not remotely like North Korea ("I did not feel comfortable setting foot in Russia"). It hosted an excellent World Cup this past summer and was packed to the gills with foreign visitors, including from the US.

trav777 wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

I think Russia's a great place to visit. Although airport immigration at ROV (Rostov-on-Don) took me into secondary (they REALLY didn't know why I wanted to visit their city), I never encountered any issues wandering throughout Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kazan, or Rostov. In fact, Moscow is one of my favorite cities; taking the metro and visiting the older stations is fascinating, as is admiring the metropolitan Socialist architecture, and sampling Georgian and Uzbek food.

As for SU, I've flown them a few times, on their 773ER and Airbus A320s. We landed, that's what counts...ok, the food was rough, so bring a few snacks. But, now that I don't have a valid visa, the option to transit through SVO is much less tempting.

Flew SU AMS-MLE thru SVO. Had no problems whatsoever.

I did J MLE-SVO for upsell at the airport. Great airline. Loved their airline promo montage on board. Flight attendants were top notch. A333.

I'm a US Citizen. Spent a night in Moscow. Great place. The slander leveled at the Russians upthread...it's shameful. No problems on the train to moscow, just didn't have any rubles to ride the Metro (#sadface). Stayed at the Savoy near Red Square. No idea why anyone would be afraid of traveling there. Certainly it was safer than Africa and Latin America, both places I've also been. Heck it is far safer than a lot of cities in the USA.

US citizens come in many colors. I don't know what race you are nor do I care, but just being a US citizen doesn't mean zilch.

cedarjet wrote:

Sorry that is RIDICULOUS. And shameful. Though you guys were the land of the free. But the world outside your borders is off limits apparently. Have you seen The Truman Show?

The world beyond the U.S. is hardly off limits! I travel abroad as much as I can, and thoroughly enjoyed my first visits to Spain and Iceland last August. Indeed, I hope to be able to return to both of these wonderful countries as soon as possible. If you haven't been to them - go! You won't be disappointed.

I also go out of my way to be kind (and helpful, if desired) to foreign visitors that I meet not just here in Los Angeles but throughout America. I believe this is only right considering the fact that I have been treated with the utmost kindness and respect in all of my travels to Asia, Europe and Latin America throughout my life. I hope my efforts - however small and infrequent they may be in the grand scheme of things - have had the same positive impact on people visiting my country that countless foreigners have had on me while traveling abroad.

Perhaps it should be noted that, in addition to traveling on a U.S. passport, I am gay. As such, I felt *extremely* welcome in Spain. Chechnya aside, Russia does not seem to be the kind of place that is actively persecuting gays. In fact, I understand Moscow has quite a lively gay scene. However, unless there is a major international event like the Olympics or World Cup going on, Russia certainly doesn't seem to make much of an effort to allow gay people of any nationality to feel safe from frequent harassment and, sadly, even hate crimes. While I hope to someday be able to explore the rich culture and vast nature that Russia has to offer, it isn't a country at the top of my list to visit anytime soon.

The point I was trying to make is that many Americans with the means and desire to travel internationally are simply not comfortable visiting Russia at this time. Although SU does have a relatively substantial U.S. operation to IAD, LAX, MIA and JFK it seems like these services may heavily rely on folks connecting to international destinations beyond SVO. To be sure, those looking for cheap fares between the U.S. and Western Europe may very well want to consider taking SU. It does sound like a pretty nice airline - whilst in the air, and if you are white! Not that it should matter any more than being gay but perhaps it should also be said that I am white.

SurfandSnow wrote:

cedarjet wrote:

Although SU does have a relatively substantial U.S. operation to IAD, LAX, MIA and JFK it seems like these services may heavily rely on folks connecting to international destinations beyond SVO.

Does it though?

IAD is served once a wee, it's a token roiute

LAX, MIA and JFK are all large local markets to Moscow at over 100 PDEW each and Aeroflot has monopolies.

I actually used miles to fly AA ORD-DME in 2009. That was the end of April and the flu epidemic was in full swing: the Russians came on board after we landed and randomly checked people's temperature. Almost everyone in passport control was wearing a mask. In 2104 we flew SQ IAH-DME: that was really nice with complimentary Singapore Slings and all. Now the only choice is the JFK flight or connecting in Europe if we want to visit family and have vodka toasts at the dacha.

I had a great trip to St. Petersburg and Moscow. I had a great time, but came away thinking - these are a great people and country still looking for a great leader. Maybe one day - a great Russian leader.

alan3 wrote:

Although US-Russia service is limited, at least it exists. Canada-Russia direct service is nonexistent (even though according to Wikipedia there are over half a million Russian-Canadians).

I am a bit surprised that Aeroflot doesn't serve YYZ at least once a week, although on the other hand Canada-Russia relations are very bad in recent years due to Ukraine so I doubt it's coming anytime soon.

Didn't SU serve Toronto before? Could of sworn they did.

MaksFly wrote:

alan3 wrote:

Although US-Russia service is limited, at least it exists. Canada-Russia direct service is nonexistent (even though according to Wikipedia there are over half a million Russian-Canadians).

I am a bit surprised that Aeroflot doesn't serve YYZ at least once a week, although on the other hand Canada-Russia relations are very bad in recent years due to Ukraine so I doubt it's coming anytime soon.

Didn't SU serve Toronto before? Could of sworn they did.

It did. With Boeing 763

Miss SQ IAH - DME - SIN route. I wonder how much traffic is in between IAH - and Russia these days.

Also don't forget that UN for years flew regular form MOW to JFK, LAX, MIA and also Toronto I'm pretty sure. And that worked profitably.

Furthermore, in late 90's and maybe till middle 2000s, SU had service to SFO, SEA and ORD. May be it also flew somewhere Canada except Toronto and by the way it used to service Mexico !

I could be totally wrong here but didn't DL have a short-lived JFK-LED flight right after the break up of the Soviet Union? BTW, US citizen here...been to Russia twice. St. Petersburg is a gem of a city and Moscow is as cosmopolitan as any of the world's great cities and didn't encounter any issues anywhere in Russia. I'd go back to both, especially Moscow, in a heartbeat.

ualcsr wrote:

I could be totally wrong here but didn't DL have a short-lived JFK-LED flight right after the break up of the Soviet Union? BTW, US citizen here...been to Russia twice. St. Petersburg is a gem of a city and Moscow is as cosmopolitan as any of the world's great cities and didn't encounter any issues anywhere in Russia. I'd go back to both, especially Moscow, in a heartbeat.

If my memory serves right, it was FRA-LED, panam route

ikarlson wrote:

ualcsr wrote:

I could be totally wrong here but didn't DL have a short-lived JFK-LED flight right after the break up of the Soviet Union? BTW, US citizen here...been to Russia twice. St. Petersburg is a gem of a city and Moscow is as cosmopolitan as any of the world's great cities and didn't encounter any issues anywhere in Russia. I'd go back to both, especially Moscow, in a heartbeat.

If my memory serves right, it was FRA-LED, panam route

PA served LED through several routings over the years. At one time, there was even a SVO-LED segment (without traffic rights, of course).
https://www.google.com/search?q=pan+am+ ... X1WktixVeM:

Just curious, is there a sizable Russian population in MIA? Why does Aeroflot fly there?

ikarlson wrote:

ualcsr wrote:

I could be totally wrong here but didn't DL have a short-lived JFK-LED flight right after the break up of the Soviet Union? BTW, US citizen here...been to Russia twice. St. Petersburg is a gem of a city and Moscow is as cosmopolitan as any of the world's great cities and didn't encounter any issues anywhere in Russia. I'd go back to both, especially Moscow, in a heartbeat.

If my memory serves right, it was FRA-LED, panam route

DL served JFK-HEL-LED in the mid-1990s, IIRC with a TriStar. I do not know whether they ever went nonstop to LED.

What I don't understand is: how does the US diplomacy travel to Moscow and back? How are they getting embassy staff there and home, how do they transport diplomatic luggage? What are they doing if they want to bring someone out of Russia very fast? All that Kind of things why you had flag carriers in the old days. Of Course, they can use western european Airlines. But that's not Always the same thing

I don't know if this is still the case, and I might be completely wrong-

But isn't there a City of Chicago law that banning Aeroflot from flying into ORD?

A350 wrote:

What I don't understand is: how does the US diplomacy travel to Moscow and back? How are they getting embassy staff there and home, how do they transport diplomatic luggage? What are they doing if they want to bring someone out of Russia very fast? All that Kind of things why you had flag carriers in the old days. Of Course, they can use western european Airlines. But that's not Always the same thing

Connecting thru Europe. Diplomatic cargo is, and always was, transported on “Black Plastic” military missions; used to be C-141s, now C-17s.

GF

Galvan316 wrote:

I don't know if this is still the case, and I might be completely wrong-

But isn't there a City of Chicago law that banning Aeroflot from flying into ORD?

No.

Such a law wouldn't even be legal.

Philippine747 wrote:

Just curious, is there a sizable Russian population in MIA? Why does Aeroflot fly there?

Yes, sizable Russian population in S Florida. Lots of oligarch $$$ invested in real estate down here.

A350 wrote:

What I don't understand is: how does the US diplomacy travel to Moscow and back? How are they getting embassy staff there and home, how do they transport diplomatic luggage? What are they doing if they want to bring someone out of Russia very fast? All that Kind of things why you had flag carriers in the old days. Of Course, they can use western european Airlines. But that's not Always the same thing

Do you really believe there is a direct flight from the US - let alone on a US airline - to every city where the US has an embassy or a consulate??...

From what I gather, it's fine to connect through SVO, and their business class lounges there look nice. They even have a small hotel in the transit area to use if you have one of SU's long layovers, though I'd be tempted to get a visa and head into town. SU has really come a long way in filing through fares for people willing to connect over Moscow, and from what I've read, it's a fine carrier. The US3 simply do not have the premium demand to MOW to warrant flying there directly anymore. That said, I'm surprised DL cannot run a 767 on JFK-SVO a few times a week in summer, but I suppose they have better use for those birds.

This thread has turned into political discourse, and will be locked. Political discussion may only take place in the Non Aviation Forum.

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