After reading all the comments, it’s still conjecture.

I quite sure Singapore didn’t flip a coin to decide which airport to serve. There are huge multinational corporations in Central & Northern Jersey, and it’s most likely that that swung Singapore’s decision, along with companies in Manhattan that can be easily reached from either airport.

The rest of the Newark-JFK debate is just noise. I’ve been a New Yorker for 62 years — wild horses couldn’t drag me to JFK, not because of the airport, but because of the Van Wyck Expressway. I find Newark much more convenient, and though I often use Terminal B, I don’t really care that it isn’t pretty. It’s functional, and that’s all that concerns me.

aldrigsomandre wrote:

Slot availability?
Also, EWR is closer to Manhattan.

EWR is not closer to Manhattan, but it has important connection opportunities with UA. Also, slots are much easier to obtain here.

jerseyewr777 wrote:

aldrigsomandre wrote:

Slot availability?
Also, EWR is closer to Manhattan.

The flight comes in so early that I would think that slots at JFK would not be an issue if SQ wanted to operate the nonstop from JFK.

Now that I think about it, you actually have a point.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

SQ and LH have a joint venture, and I suspect that this is a back-door way for LH to shoehorn in a third daily flight to JFK. It's timed to have minimal layover at FRA and arrive back in SIN for SQ's morning bank. This is also why, in the winter season, it's not important to have first class on the evening flight (LH404/5). (Barring an equipment change to an A340-300 or a 747-400, LH400/1 always has first class, be it on an A388, A346, or B748).

LH's Atlantic flights are part of a JV with UA and other LH group carriers. USA flights are not inclued in the LH/SQ JV, so it's unlikely SQ's offering/timings ex-JFK have any bearing on the needs of LH customers (and vice versa).

SIN-EWR largely handles O&D, and the fact that SQ22/1 only has J/W indicates that there is heavy premium traffic to support a non-stop between two major financial centers. EWR is the choice for Manhattan as it is closer to the NYC financial district. At JFK, SQ relies heavily on B6 feed as well as that LH codeshare/JV.

FlightLevel360 wrote:

aldrigsomandre wrote:

Slot availability?
Also, EWR is closer to Manhattan.

EWR is not closer to Manhattan, but it has important connection opportunities with UA. Also, slots are much easier to obtain here.

In physical distance EWR is closer to any part of Manhattan, even the East side, than Kennedy. To Lower Manhattan EWR is even closer than LGA. The factors change when you add in congestion, public transportation options etc.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

EWR is the choice for Manhattan as it is closer to the NYC financial district. At JFK, SQ relies heavily on B6 feed as well as that LH codeshare/JV.

The EWR relevance to finance is vastly overrated on a.net. “Wall Street” has progressively gravitated to east midtown for many years, where the concentration of banks, private investment firms and professional services firms (lawyers, accountants, consultants, etc) far exceeds the remaining activity downtown. There will be firms relocating to Hudson Yards on the far west side, but for the most part, JFK/LGA are best situated geographically to serve the financial services industry. Furthermore, proximity to one’s residence is also a factor, particularly with ULH flights.

Are you certain LH places its code on the SQ flight? This would seem to complicate LH’s Atlantic JV with UA.

StudiodeKadent wrote:

EWR is slightly closer to SIN than JFK is. The difference is marginal however.

.

Difference between flight distances isn't just marginal, it is infinitesimal. EWR-SIN= 9,534mi and JFK-SIN is a mere three miles more at 9,537mi.

I think besides financial services, part of the draw to EWR is the Maritime industry. Singapore has a thriving Maritime industry, Port Newark (literally across the street from EWR) is the busiest Port on the US East coast and is the third busiest in the US behind Houston #2 and Los Angeles/ Long Beach #1. All thre destinations are served by SQ, with EWR and LAX supporting nonstops. Perhaps IAH is too far for a nonstop?

I have a question, I know it's a little bit off topic so please bear with me.

Does SQ have fifth-freedom traffic rights between FRA and JFK? So in other words, can one buy a ticket on SQ just to fly JFK-FRA or your ticket has to either originate or end in SIN?

So, back to the topic in discussion here, I think that another reason for SQ flying the A380 to JFK instead of EWR is EWR can't accommodate the A380.

ryanov wrote:

LaGuardia objectively sucks. The only transit option is the bus, and it’s terribly overcrowded and gets stuck in traffic. The bus from Newark Airport virtually never hits traffic, and there’s good rail service at the airport or Newark Penn to both midtown and lower Manhattan. If New York prefers not to darken our doorstep, so be it, but it’s not the least convenient of the three.

Is your bus magical and can fly? The bus from Newark to Manhattan always gets stuck in traffic, how often the Lincoln and Holland tunnel is packed to the brim and it takes 40 minutes to drive that piece alone hoping that their isn't any traffic anywhere else in the journey

STT757 wrote:

I think besides financial services, part of the draw to EWR is the Maritime industry. Singapore has a thriving Maritime industry, Port Newark (literally across the street from EWR) is the busiest Port on the US East coast and is the third busiest in the US behind Houston #2 and Los Angeles/ Long Beach #1. All thre destinations are served by SQ, with EWR and LAX supporting nonstops. Perhaps IAH is too far for a nonstop?

I believe SQ served Houston via Manchester for a while. I'm pretty sure the flight was cancelled 2-3 years ago.

sohanb82 wrote:

STT757 wrote:

I think besides financial services, part of the draw to EWR is the Maritime industry. Singapore has a thriving Maritime industry, Port Newark (literally across the street from EWR) is the busiest Port on the US East coast and is the third busiest in the US behind Houston #2 and Los Angeles/ Long Beach #1. All thre destinations are served by SQ, with EWR and LAX supporting nonstops. Perhaps IAH is too far for a nonstop?

I believe SQ served Houston via Manchester for a while. I'm pretty sure the flight was cancelled 2-3 years ago.

They are still operating the flight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA52/history/20190119/1010Z/EGCC/KIAH

77H wrote:

danj555 wrote:

United got in those cheeky jabs early with SFO and LAX flights, but Singapore Air is having the last laugh, they got the US on lock going to Singapore.

Riiiiiight... SQ has US-SIN on lock which is precisely why UA is operating 2 daily flights to SIN from SFO. While it is true that UA dropped LAX-SIN, from all indications I've read it had to due with aircraft performance issues making the flight an under performer, not lack of demand for UA's service. Additionally, UA's network is far larger than SQ's which only has one hub, SIN. It make sense that they would be try and connect SIN with as many destinations as possible where as UA has 7 hubs to chase opportunities.

77H

We all know seats were blocked on the LAX-SIN during the winter months, but in an statement when they announced the movement to 2x SFO-SIN; they stated the main reason for the move was that passenger feedback really wanted the option of a daytime flight added.

JFLANY wrote:

Are you certain LH places its code on the SQ flight? This would seem to complicate LH’s Atlantic JV with UA.

Why? There's no exclusivity requirement for the J/V. Regulators wouldn't permit it, if there was.

American 767 wrote:

Does SQ have fifth-freedom traffic rights between FRA and JFK? So in other words, can one buy a ticket on SQ just to fly JFK-FRA or your ticket has to either originate or end in SIN?

yes

From the Star Alliance online timetable ... https://flights.staralliance.com/en/

request flights from JFK to FRA

the results will show 2 LH flights and 1 SQ flight

LAX772LR wrote:

JFLANY wrote:

Are you certain LH places its code on the SQ flight? This would seem to complicate LH’s Atlantic JV with UA.

Why? There's no exclusivity requirement for the J/V. Regulators wouldn't permit it, if there was.

I haven't read the JV docs, but USA services were absent from the press release I saw. It would make no sense for UA to allow its Transatlantic JV partner (LH) to have another arrangement that potentially cannibalizes the UA/LH JV on USA-FRA routes. Also I do not see the LH code on SQ's flight in availability displays for JFK-FRA nonstops.

What SQ could consider doing is operating A359 SIN-FRA-EWR and cancel the JFK flight. There is already a lot of capacity (daily A388 + B748 + A332) at JFK from other airlines, not to mention both FRA and EWR are *A hubs.

sargester wrote:

ryanov wrote:

LaGuardia objectively sucks. The only transit option is the bus, and it’s terribly overcrowded and gets stuck in traffic. The bus from Newark Airport virtually never hits traffic, and there’s good rail service at the airport or Newark Penn to both midtown and lower Manhattan. If New York prefers not to darken our doorstep, so be it, but it’s not the least convenient of the three.

Is your bus magical and can fly? The bus from Newark to Manhattan always gets stuck in traffic, how often the Lincoln and Holland tunnel is packed to the brim and it takes 40 minutes to drive that piece alone hoping that their isn't any traffic anywhere else in the journey

I already clarified in post #46 that I meant the bus from downtown Newark to the airport. You can almost entirely (there is some rail congestion) avoid traffic between NYC and Newark Penn Station by taking the PATH or NJ Transit.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

SQ and LH have a joint venture

I did not know about this JV. I wonder if the UA-LH JV comes into conflict with the LH-SQ JV. Maybe UA doesn't want SQ on the A++ EWR-FRA "hub-to-hub" route so SQ went to JFK instead?

Obviously the airline feels the nonstop from EWR will be more successful. That's why they chose EWR. I highly doubt SQ would have this plane built to later find out they couldn't get a slot at JFK!!!

adamblang wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

SQ and LH have a joint venture

I did not know about this JV. I wonder if the UA-LH JV comes into conflict with the LH-SQ JV. Maybe UA doesn't want SQ on the A++ EWR-FRA "hub-to-hub" route so SQ went to JFK instead?

FRA-JFK is not included in the SQ-LH JBA. It is 100% SQ at-risk.

JFLANY wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

JFLANY wrote:

Are you certain LH places its code on the SQ flight? This would seem to complicate LH’s Atlantic JV with UA.

Why? There's no exclusivity requirement for the J/V. Regulators wouldn't permit it, if there was.

I haven't read the JV docs, but USA services were absent from the press release I saw. It would make no sense for UA to allow its Transatlantic JV partner (LH) to have another arrangement that potentially cannibalizes the UA/LH JV on USA-FRA routes.

You're confusing/conflating two different things: if the airlines choose not to cooperate with those outside of their J/V, that's their prerogative. One attempting to require it against the will of the other, is a surefire way to get regulatory revocation. Anti-trust immunity is not unlimited immunity.

The one thing nobody has mentioned JFK has a catch basin of NYC and North while EWR has a catch basin of NYC, Northern NJ, NE PA including Philadelphia all being less than an Hour away By I-95 where they would have to take the Bridge and L.I Expressway to get to JFK. May not seem like much to many New Yorkers? But if you're Not a New Yorker? Makes one HELL of a Lot of difference. I'm from Philadelphia and have flown into see friends and Family in the area from California where I live. It makes a difference!!

LAX772LR wrote:

JFLANY wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Why? There's no exclusivity requirement for the J/V. Regulators wouldn't permit it, if there was.

I haven't read the JV docs, but USA services were absent from the press release I saw. It would make no sense for UA to allow its Transatlantic JV partner (LH) to have another arrangement that potentially cannibalizes the UA/LH JV on USA-FRA routes.

You're confusing/conflating two different things: if the airlines choose not to cooperate with those outside of their J/V, that's their prerogative. One attempting to require it against the will of the other, is a surefire way to get regulatory revocation. Anti-trust immunity is not unlimited immunity.

I'm not cunfused at all. LH group is part of a transatlantic JV where profits/losses are shared amongst certain airlines (including UA and AC, not including SQ). I'm quie certain that NYC-FRA is included in that JV, and I'm quite certain that the JV agreement prohibits each member from offering services that directly compete with the JV. LH placing its code on SQ flights between JFK and FRA would do just that, as part of the revenue would have to be shared with SQ (thereby cannibalizing the transatlantic JV). LH is free to enter into other agreements on routes not covered by the JV (and has done so in separate agreements with NH,CA and SQ).

I've not seen a shred of evidence that there is any coordination between LH and SQ on JFK-FRA outside standard Star Alliance benefits and interline agreements. LH and SQ compete on JFK-FRA, they do not and cannot cooperate.

strfyr51 wrote:

The one thing nobody has mentioned JFK has a catch basin of NYC and North while EWR has a catch basin of NYC, Northern NJ, NE PA including Philadelphia all being less than an Hour away By I-95 where they would have to take the Bridge and L.I Expressway to get to JFK. May not seem like much to many New Yorkers? But if you're Not a New Yorker? Makes one HELL of a Lot of difference. I'm from Philadelphia and have flown into see friends and Family in the area from California where I live. It makes a difference!!

This is an excellent point and one that I find much more compelling than the barrage of posts claiming that EWR is more convenient for a broad group of NYC residents. NYC residents will (often reluctantly) travel to EWR for a good fare, an international flight, etc, or if “tied” to UA for some reason (i.e, a million miler that got started on UA because people senior to them at work lived in NJ and booked team’s flights on CO/UA).

Definitely, without draw from the regions you reference, EWR would not have grown to the size it is today.