chiraagnt
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GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:08 am

As per a Facebook announcement, GA officially launches LHR-DPS direct flights 3x a week (Tue, Thurs, Sat) starting 22 Jan 2019 where it seems they are axing their return LHR-CGK flight to instead have a CGK-LHR-DPS routing. Schedule is as follows:

GA87 departs LHR at 2155 (on Tue/Sat), arrives in DPS at 21:30+1
GA87 departs LHR at 2155 (Thurs), arrives in DPS at 2115+1

For the return, GA is offering a one-stop service through CGK, asking customers to fly GA401/403 on DPS-CGK before connecting onto LHR on GA86.


Source: Garuda Indonesia Facebook
 
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mercure1
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:24 am

Yes posted in two places already

>>> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1410083

>>> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1402085
mercure f-wtcc
 
chiraagnt
Topic Author
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:52 am

I thought a route announcement deserved its own post, but mods please delete if needed!
 
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MoKa777
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:40 am

This is just strange.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
konkret
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:11 am

Do I recall correctly that the reason for the stop in SIN enroute to LHR was the insufficient length of the runway in CGK?
So if they insist on this bizzare routing wouldn't it make more sense to fly it the other way round ie. DPS-LHR and LHR-CGK ?
 
ewt340
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:16 am

Yeah no. They are trying too hard to ruin everything left in their company.
 
SCQ83
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:15 am

MoKa777 wrote:
This is just strange.


It is not strange. Bali is becoming very popular in Europe lately. With everybody in Europe having been to Thailand already thanks to the ME3, Bali is the new Phuket. :D
 
Galwayman
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:16 am

chiraagnt wrote:
As per a Facebook announcement, GA officially launches LHR-DPS direct flights 3x a week (Tue, Thurs, Sat) starting 22 Jan 2019 where it seems they are axing their return LHR-CGK flight to instead have a CGK-LHR-DPS routing. Schedule is as follows:

GA87 departs LHR at 2155 (on Tue/Sat), arrives in DPS at 21:30+1
GA87 departs LHR at 2155 (Thurs), arrives in DPS at 2115+1

For the return, GA is offering a one-stop service through CGK, asking customers to fly GA401/403 on DPS-CGK before connecting onto LHR on GA86.


They did this before a couple of decades ago ( yes I’m old) ... changed LON > CGK to LON> DPS ( offering one stop connections to CGK , PER, SYD etc ...

Imho a good strategy if the onward timings to OZ are good . There’s very little full fare Y demand from LON to CGK and Singapore airlines nabbed those fliers years ago

Source: Garuda Indonesia Facebook
 
Galwayman
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:18 am

MoKa777 wrote:
This is just strange.


Not strange at all . A good move

There’s much more demand for DPS than CGK from Lon and it offers a competitive one stop route to England overseas(Oz)
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:30 am

We'll have to see what happens, but it could be very successful. A lot of people want to go to Bali and if Garuda is the only airline offering direct flights they can charge a premium for it.
 
konkret
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:37 am

Guys, starting a DPS-LHR-DPS route wouldn't be strange at all, but CGK-LHR-DPS is strange a.f.
 
TC957
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:43 am

This will be LHR's 2nd longest flight after QF's PER nonstop. Bali is a great honeymoon and beach stop-off destination for those going onto Australia.
 
planesarecool
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:43 am

DPS-LHR would be a struggle non-stop with the headwind component, so the flight would almost certainly have to stop en-route anyway. It makes a lot of sense to route it this way.

A.net accountants and armchair CEOs obviously know better, as always.
 
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Btblue
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:22 am

Good option for a stop on the way to OZ or NZ. Bali is a wonderful place, great people, flew there with GA back in 2000 from LGW via BKK... Remember booking the seats that pair off in the back on the 744... Only to discover it was the smoking section. Service was great though.

Have visited Bali many times since, typically via DOH KUL or SIN. Like the idea of a direct service. Can see it drawing away some traffic from the above, purely as an option to spend a day or two on the island then short flight on to your destination. Hope it goes well for Garuda, could be a winner.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:43 am

Is it a triangular CGK-LHR-DPS-CGK?
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,752,
722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,M83,
M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,333,
343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,CR9,
CR10, E175,E190,ATR42,DSH8,CS1,CS3
 
TC957
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:21 am

upperdeckfan wrote:
Is it a triangular CGK-LHR-DPS-CGK?

Looks like it, the LHR flights arrives 2115 or 2130 and GA have a 2230 or 2330 77W departure to CGK.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:47 am

konkret wrote:
Guys, starting a DPS-LHR-DPS route wouldn't be strange at all, but CGK-LHR-DPS is strange a.f.


That's the main part that's strange to me.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:51 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
We'll have to see what happens, but it could be very successful. A lot of people want to go to Bali and if Garuda is the only airline offering direct flights they can charge a premium for it.


But will this Bali flight's demographic be willing (or even interested) to pay a premium for a direct/nonstop flight? Especially when there are various convenient and affordable means to get there already.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:09 am

Garuda Indonesia will get the A330-900neo this year, which is similar to B787. I think this would be perfect for this route as is a smaller aircraft and more fuel efficient, and can allow both ways to fly non stop.

Hopefully, Garuda launch:
Tue/Sat DPS-LHR-DPS
Thur CKG-LHR-CKG
In the future with the A330-900neo in order to serve both leisure and business passengers, as well as connecting passengers to Australia
 
eamondzhang
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:14 am

Not too surprised and I bet CGK-LHR-CGK must be struggling quite a bit as well, might just give another try and see if works better.
TC957 wrote:
This will be LHR's 2nd longest flight after QF's PER nonstop. Bali is a great honeymoon and beach stop-off destination for those going onto Australia.

Btblue wrote:
Good option for a stop on the way to OZ or NZ.

IIRC transiting via DPS requires debark, clear immigration, luggage pick-up, re-check in and embark process as there were no transit facilities available. Obviously this info might be outdated but I seriously doubt it. If this is true this can kill a lot of transit prospects in there. (Granted the timing isn't too bad with a night time arrival into DPS and OZ flights depart at midnight)

Michael
 
MalevTU134
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:38 am

SeanM1997 wrote:
Garuda Indonesia will get the A330-900neo this year, which is similar to B787. I think this would be perfect for this route as is a smaller aircraft and more fuel efficient, and can allow both ways to fly non stop.

Hopefully, Garuda launch:
Tue/Sat DPS-LHR-DPS
Thur CKG-LHR-CKG
In the future with the A330-900neo in order to serve both leisure and business passengers, as well as connecting passengers to Australia

What business passengers crave the most is convenience and frequency (options to travel when they want/need). A 1x weekly flight to CGK (not CKG, that is Chongqing, China) is a waste of breath.
 
jsfr
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:51 pm

Also with CZ pulling out of Skyteam this adds additional frequency on the Kangaroo route for the alliance...
 
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afterburner
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:37 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
Thur CKG-LHR-CKG

The IATA code for Soekarno-Hatta Jakarta Intl. Airport is CGK. CKG is for Chongqing Jiangbei Intl., China.
 
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afterburner
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:05 pm

If only Garuda order 787-9. The aircraft is perfect for Europe-CGK/DPS as 77W is too large.
 
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huaiwei
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:26 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
This is just strange.


It is not strange. Bali is becoming very popular in Europe lately. With everybody in Europe having been to Thailand already thanks to the ME3, Bali is the new Phuket. :D

What is strange is not the destination. It is the routing and frequency which seems so uncompetitive that it is a shot in the foot.

And if GA can't make CGK work, why would DPS? There are not many ultra long-haul routes in the world which can be sustained primarily by tourism traffic alone. If TG can't even get their BKK-North American routes to stabilise despite their much better reputation and being part of Star Alliance, and this is definitely a far bigger market than Europe-Bali, then why would GA be successful?
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
as739x
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:31 pm

DPS 9,800ft (3,000m) runway doesn't help either. The 789 may as well be constrained by takeoff performance, but I'm no expert!!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:53 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Not too surprised and I bet CGK-LHR-CGK must be struggling quite a bit as well, might just give another try and see if works better.
TC957 wrote:
This will be LHR's 2nd longest flight after QF's PER nonstop. Bali is a great honeymoon and beach stop-off destination for those going onto Australia.

Btblue wrote:
Good option for a stop on the way to OZ or NZ.

IIRC transiting via DPS requires debark, clear immigration, luggage pick-up, re-check in and embark process as there were no transit facilities available. Obviously this info might be outdated but I seriously doubt it. If this is true this can kill a lot of transit prospects in there. (Granted the timing isn't too bad with a night time arrival into DPS and OZ flights depart at midnight)

Michael


It doesn't work for Australian connections. DPS-SYD departs at 22:20 and DPS-MEL at 22:30, giving 50 and 60 minute transit respectively. That doesn't meet MCT at DPS, which is 120 minutes IIRC.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
ewt340
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:13 am

afterburner wrote:
If only Garuda order 787-9. The aircraft is perfect for Europe-CGK/DPS as 77W is too large.


Agree, either they order B787-9 or A350-900. Those are the largest aircraft they could fill for European Operations.

Heck, they should get B787-8 instead.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:25 am

ewt340 wrote:
afterburner wrote:
If only Garuda order 787-9. The aircraft is perfect for Europe-CGK/DPS as 77W is too large.


Agree, either they order B787-9 or A350-900. Those are the largest aircraft they could fill for European Operations.

Heck, they should get B787-8 instead.

Heck, maybe they should get an ATR. Why do it half-heartedly? If you guys understand that GA never has and never will make any profits on its flights to Europe, why do you suggest that they buy a new, costly aircraft type for these flights? If your idea is that "since they lose on every passenger, then there shouldn't be so many passengers", let's go all-in. ATR it is...heck.
 
ewt340
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:52 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
afterburner wrote:
If only Garuda order 787-9. The aircraft is perfect for Europe-CGK/DPS as 77W is too large.


Agree, either they order B787-9 or A350-900. Those are the largest aircraft they could fill for European Operations.

Heck, they should get B787-8 instead.

Heck, maybe they should get an ATR. Why do it half-heartedly? If you guys understand that GA never has and never will make any profits on its flights to Europe, why do you suggest that they buy a new, costly aircraft type for these flights? If your idea is that "since they lose on every passenger, then there shouldn't be so many passengers", let's go all-in. ATR it is...heck.


They actually operated ATR72.

Before ordering B777-300ER, they never operated any B777 previously. So they are buying a new Extremely costly aircraft type for "these flights". So your arguments already failed.
With the market changing and the heavy competition, they need to reduce capacity.

They failed to compete and need to focus on increasing their Load factor which in the last report stands at only 75%. So on average 1/4 seats on each flights are flying empty.

I'm pretty sure they could sell their B777-300ER now because it's a popular aircraft, and they only have 8 of them. All of them are 5 years old or younger. And then use that money to buy B787-9 or A350-900.
Especially since they already operated A330ceo and would operate A330neo. It would be beneficial for them to operate A350-900.

Lower risk investment, no?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:29 pm

ewt340 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

Agree, either they order B787-9 or A350-900. Those are the largest aircraft they could fill for European Operations.

Heck, they should get B787-8 instead.

Heck, maybe they should get an ATR. Why do it half-heartedly? If you guys understand that GA never has and never will make any profits on its flights to Europe, why do you suggest that they buy a new, costly aircraft type for these flights? If your idea is that "since they lose on every passenger, then there shouldn't be so many passengers", let's go all-in. ATR it is...heck.


They actually operated ATR72.

Before ordering B777-300ER, they never operated any B777 previously. So they are buying a new Extremely costly aircraft type for "these flights". So your arguments already failed.
With the market changing and the heavy competition, they need to reduce capacity.

They failed to compete and need to focus on increasing their Load factor which in the last report stands at only 75%. So on average 1/4 seats on each flights are flying empty.

I'm pretty sure they could sell their B777-300ER now because it's a popular aircraft, and they only have 8 of them. All of them are 5 years old or younger. And then use that money to buy B787-9 or A350-900.
Especially since they already operated A330ceo and would operate A330neo. It would be beneficial for them to operate A350-900.

Lower risk investment, no?

My sarcasm was obviously lost on you. What I meant was that they should just close the route, not waste more good money after bad, by buying shining new aircraft. London-Bali?? Reaallyyy?? What do YOU think will be the yield on that route?
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:13 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Not too surprised and I bet CGK-LHR-CGK must be struggling quite a bit as well, might just give another try and see if works better.
TC957 wrote:
This will be LHR's 2nd longest flight after QF's PER nonstop. Bali is a great honeymoon and beach stop-off destination for those going onto Australia.

Btblue wrote:
Good option for a stop on the way to OZ or NZ.

IIRC transiting via DPS requires debark, clear immigration, luggage pick-up, re-check in and embark process as there were no transit facilities available. Obviously this info might be outdated but I seriously doubt it. If this is true this can kill a lot of transit prospects in there. (Granted the timing isn't too bad with a night time arrival into DPS and OZ flights depart at midnight)

Michael


It doesn't work for Australian connections. DPS-SYD departs at 22:20 and DPS-MEL at 22:30, giving 50 and 60 minute transit respectively. That doesn't meet MCT at DPS, which is 120 minutes IIRC.


Unless some of these passengers want to stopover in Denpasar, which they might as it has perfect weather, lots to see and great hotels. I certainly would, and if I got to stop in Jakarta on the way back for a few days that would be great as well.
 
TC957
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:04 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Not too surprised and I bet CGK-LHR-CGK must be struggling quite a bit as well, might just give another try and see if works better.
TC957 wrote:
This will be LHR's 2nd longest flight after QF's PER nonstop. Bali is a great honeymoon and beach stop-off destination for those going onto Australia.

Btblue wrote:
Good option for a stop on the way to OZ or NZ.

IIRC transiting via DPS requires debark, clear immigration, luggage pick-up, re-check in and embark process as there were no transit facilities available. Obviously this info might be outdated but I seriously doubt it. If this is true this can kill a lot of transit prospects in there. (Granted the timing isn't too bad with a night time arrival into DPS and OZ flights depart at midnight)

Michael


It doesn't work for Australian connections. DPS-SYD departs at 22:20 and DPS-MEL at 22:30, giving 50 and 60 minute transit respectively. That doesn't meet MCT at DPS, which is 120 minutes IIRC.

I wasn't meaning connecting flights, but Bali adds another good one-stop LHR - OZ & NZ option for a stopover break for a couple of nights or so. Lots of people prefer that to going straight through.
 
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Btblue
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:10 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Not too surprised and I bet CGK-LHR-CGK must be struggling quite a bit as well, might just give another try and see if works better.
TC957 wrote:
This will be LHR's 2nd longest flight after QF's PER nonstop. Bali is a great honeymoon and beach stop-off destination for those going onto Australia.

Btblue wrote:
Good option for a stop on the way to OZ or NZ.

IIRC transiting via DPS requires debark, clear immigration, luggage pick-up, re-check in and embark process as there were no transit facilities available. Obviously this info might be outdated but I seriously doubt it. If this is true this can kill a lot of transit prospects in there. (Granted the timing isn't too bad with a night time arrival into DPS and OZ flights depart at midnight)

Michael


It doesn't work for Australian connections. DPS-SYD departs at 22:20 and DPS-MEL at 22:30, giving 50 and 60 minute transit respectively. That doesn't meet MCT at DPS, which is 120 minutes IIRC.


Sorry wasn’t clear. By stop I meant a stopover. So a couple of days, opportunity to enjoy some Balinese sunshine. Certainly an attractive option and something different to SIN and BKK or even KUL.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:45 pm

Btblue wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Not too surprised and I bet CGK-LHR-CGK must be struggling quite a bit as well, might just give another try and see if works better.


IIRC transiting via DPS requires debark, clear immigration, luggage pick-up, re-check in and embark process as there were no transit facilities available. Obviously this info might be outdated but I seriously doubt it. If this is true this can kill a lot of transit prospects in there. (Granted the timing isn't too bad with a night time arrival into DPS and OZ flights depart at midnight)

Michael


It doesn't work for Australian connections. DPS-SYD departs at 22:20 and DPS-MEL at 22:30, giving 50 and 60 minute transit respectively. That doesn't meet MCT at DPS, which is 120 minutes IIRC.


Sorry wasn’t clear. By stop I meant a stopover. So a couple of days, opportunity to enjoy some Balinese sunshine. Certainly an attractive option and something different to SIN and BKK or even KUL.

You and the 2 posters before you: Do you think that GA should run this flight so that people can have "the opportunity to enjoy some Balinese sunshine", or in order to make a profit off of it? In all friendliness: Check out the concept of yield, which passengers usually pay a premium for a certain flight, and what these passengers favour (hint: it is not a couple of days on a Balinese beach, no matter how nice that may be).
 
ewt340
Posts: 521
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:22 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Heck, maybe they should get an ATR. Why do it half-heartedly? If you guys understand that GA never has and never will make any profits on its flights to Europe, why do you suggest that they buy a new, costly aircraft type for these flights? If your idea is that "since they lose on every passenger, then there shouldn't be so many passengers", let's go all-in. ATR it is...heck.


They actually operated ATR72.

Before ordering B777-300ER, they never operated any B777 previously. So they are buying a new Extremely costly aircraft type for "these flights". So your arguments already failed.
With the market changing and the heavy competition, they need to reduce capacity.

They failed to compete and need to focus on increasing their Load factor which in the last report stands at only 75%. So on average 1/4 seats on each flights are flying empty.

I'm pretty sure they could sell their B777-300ER now because it's a popular aircraft, and they only have 8 of them. All of them are 5 years old or younger. And then use that money to buy B787-9 or A350-900.
Especially since they already operated A330ceo and would operate A330neo. It would be beneficial for them to operate A350-900.

Lower risk investment, no?

My sarcasm was obviously lost on you. What I meant was that they should just close the route, not waste more good money after bad, by buying shining new aircraft. London-Bali?? Reaallyyy?? What do YOU think will be the yield on that route?


Your sarcasm didn't work because they actually operate ATR 72. Obviously they can't use that plane because of the range capability.

What I'm saying is the fact that B777-300ER doesn't work for them. And their failure in LHR might be the fact that they can't fill the entire plane. But smaller plane like B787-9 or A350-900 might possibly work and make these routes work again.

The yield would probably good enough on smaller wide-body. Hence why I also suggesting B787-8 which is the size of A330-200. Pretty sure they could make this routes work.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:03 am

ewt340 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

They actually operated ATR72.

Before ordering B777-300ER, they never operated any B777 previously. So they are buying a new Extremely costly aircraft type for "these flights". So your arguments already failed.
With the market changing and the heavy competition, they need to reduce capacity.

They failed to compete and need to focus on increasing their Load factor which in the last report stands at only 75%. So on average 1/4 seats on each flights are flying empty.

I'm pretty sure they could sell their B777-300ER now because it's a popular aircraft, and they only have 8 of them. All of them are 5 years old or younger. And then use that money to buy B787-9 or A350-900.
Especially since they already operated A330ceo and would operate A330neo. It would be beneficial for them to operate A350-900.

Lower risk investment, no?

My sarcasm was obviously lost on you. What I meant was that they should just close the route, not waste more good money after bad, by buying shining new aircraft. London-Bali?? Reaallyyy?? What do YOU think will be the yield on that route?


Your sarcasm didn't work because they actually operate ATR 72. Obviously they can't use that plane because of the range capability.

What I'm saying is the fact that B777-300ER doesn't work for them. And their failure in LHR might be the fact that they can't fill the entire plane. But smaller plane like B787-9 or A350-900 might possibly work and make these routes work again.

The yield would probably good enough on smaller wide-body. Hence why I also suggesting B787-8 which is the size of A330-200. Pretty sure they could make this routes work.

I am happy that you are "pretty sure" that these routes can work, when GA has tried for over 40 years to make their European network (AMS, LGW, LHR, FRA, CDG, FCO, VIE and I don't remember off hand what else) work, with all kinds of different aircraft, and never earnt a penny. If you know how to do it, I'm sure Jakarta would love to hear from you.
You say the yield would be good enough on a smaller widebody. We are talking a 15+ hour flight here. Would you find, say, 30 passengers (not once off, but on every flight) willing to pay at least £3000 in J to go to Bali? As well as 200 or so PAX willing to pay £1000 in economy? Cargo would, of course, be close to zero. This is more or less the minimum, when the flight might start to break even.
Look, the fact is that there are extremely few profitable leisure-heavy 15-hour flights operated by scheduled carriers today. In fact, I can't think of a single one.

IF they had good connections to/from Australia/New Zealand, that would improve the odds a bit, but with just 3x weekly they miss out on the business crowd for lack of flexibility.
 
ewt340
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: GA launches LHR-DPS flights

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:00 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
My sarcasm was obviously lost on you. What I meant was that they should just close the route, not waste more good money after bad, by buying shining new aircraft. London-Bali?? Reaallyyy?? What do YOU think will be the yield on that route?


Your sarcasm didn't work because they actually operate ATR 72. Obviously they can't use that plane because of the range capability.

What I'm saying is the fact that B777-300ER doesn't work for them. And their failure in LHR might be the fact that they can't fill the entire plane. But smaller plane like B787-9 or A350-900 might possibly work and make these routes work again.

The yield would probably good enough on smaller wide-body. Hence why I also suggesting B787-8 which is the size of A330-200. Pretty sure they could make this routes work.

I am happy that you are "pretty sure" that these routes can work, when GA has tried for over 40 years to make their European network (AMS, LGW, LHR, FRA, CDG, FCO, VIE and I don't remember off hand what else) work, with all kinds of different aircraft, and never earnt a penny. If you know how to do it, I'm sure Jakarta would love to hear from you.
You say the yield would be good enough on a smaller widebody. We are talking a 15+ hour flight here. Would you find, say, 30 passengers (not once off, but on every flight) willing to pay at least £3000 in J to go to Bali? As well as 200 or so PAX willing to pay £1000 in economy? Cargo would, of course, be close to zero. This is more or less the minimum, when the flight might start to break even.
Look, the fact is that there are extremely few profitable leisure-heavy 15-hour flights operated by scheduled carriers today. In fact, I can't think of a single one.

IF they had good connections to/from Australia/New Zealand, that would improve the odds a bit, but with just 3x weekly they miss out on the business crowd for lack of flexibility.


If you see my previous comment. I said that the Bali flights are stupid. I'm talking about Jakarta to LHR.

B787-8 = 20C seat with 238Y seat
B787-9 = 30C seat with 266Y seat

It's funny that you are trying to ignore the fact that in the past only aircraft like B747 could fly nonstop from Jakarta to Europe. Which is too large for airlines like GA.
A330-200 and A330-300 doesn't have enough range even though the capacity is a good fit for their operations.
But now we got B787-8 and B787-9. Which offer the range of B747 and the capacity and fuel efficiency of A330.

Now you don't seem to get that B777-300ER is a massive aircraft that carry more than 300 pax in 3 class configurations or close to 400 pax in 2 class configurations for GA.
We know first class doesn't work for GA. And they have hard time filling their business class seat. So low premium density configurations are more plausible for them. Hence why the small number of business class in some of their B777-300ER and newly refurbished A330-300 or B737MAX8.

Now, roundtrip business class ticket from CGK to LHR is around $2655 or more. Economy stands at $880 or more for the month of april this year. That's a connecting flights with one of the ME3.
For direct flights from CGK to LHR, I'm sure they could make it work with 20C seat and 238Y seat on B787-8.

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