LAXBUR
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:59 am

Ziyulu wrote:
The last time I took AS, I didn't get any snacks. Everyone here defended AS by saying it was a VX plane. But it was after the merger.


Until very recently the catering and service were still separate. The website acknowledged Airbus and Boeing services would be different. The crews are still not integrated. I think that’s what some people may have meant. But catering should be the same across the board now.

However, I recently wrote a complaint to Alaska because I was receiving different service on the same flights, even Boeing planes. Sometimes premium class would only be “wine and beer” with no premium snack. Othertimes it was whatever liquor you want with a snack for the same flights. Their West Coast dinner options were disappointing in contrast with their now very good transcon and Hawaii meals. Granted, much shorter flights. Alaska responsed with a voucher, but didn’t really answer what is standard service. They need to figure that out.
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
Posts: 1302
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:07 am

LAXBUR wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I don't get how anyone could read the article and defend Alaska. They mishandled every single aspect of this . It's kind of incredible how they did such a poor job.

Imagine being the people before you post such ridiculous comments. The people definding AS ironically would be the most outraged if it happen to them.

It would have taken maybe an hour tops for an Alaska rep to call every hotel near BUF and book rooms. That is if they didn't even have internet access and couldn't see what hotels had big blocks of rooms. This was AS being cheap they wanted the plane back in BOS, so they needed those people in the airport and not sleeping in a hotel.


Big AS fail, they better not let this happen again , because right now it looks totally possible with zero East coast crew base. AS management fail, the local staff didn't fail they did.


LOL. Who was defending Alaska from start to finish? I don’t think anyone did. Seems like you’re using that to drive your narrative.

I’m guessing you’ve never worked customer service or ops for an airline. It would not take an hour. Airlines and their reservations and ops centers generally don’t have access to hotel reservation systems. You can’t do group bookings on Expedia FYI and it was so late availability on the web would show for the next day, not that night.

As an example. I was on a downgauged Delta Connection flight that caused an overbooking of 8. I volunteered. Guess how long it took for them to work rebookings, compensation, and accommodations for those folks and myself at LAX - a Delta hub? Two hours...with a supervisor. In part because people would come up and yell and scream at them while they were trying to work.

Suggesting Alaska has a systemwide issue because of one bad incident at an outstation is just as dumb as folks wholeheartedly defending Alaska - which btw I still don’t see anyone doing. Seems like everyone is in agreeance they messed up. It is also clear many on here people don’t understand the difficulties of irregular operations, especially at a station where the airline has no staff. Their goal was likely to move them out of Buffalo ASAP. Which they did. After that is where they really messed up.


I don’t see anywhere in slcdeltarumd11’s post that they suggested Alaska has a systemwide issue. But it’s apparent they have an East Coast irrops issue.

According to the article this plane diverted to BUF around 9:30pm ET or 6:30pm PT back at Alaska’s op’s center. It wasn’t like this happened at 4am ET/ 1am PT. Any major US carrier is going to have contact numbers for all the major hotel chains and their subsidieraies. Alaska has contracts with these hotels and access to departments regular consumers and groups don’t. From the article it’s reading like Alaska chose not to even try to help these people because they want to be cheap and get the plane and passengers back to BOS. On top of the fact Alaska didn’t try to get these passengers accommodated in hotels I also don’t understand why Alaska didn’t reach out to partner AA, who they’ve strengthened their relationship recently and who have a decent size operation in BUF. At 9:30pm AA would have still had agents waiting on the last flights of the evening to arrive and surely there was a Supervisor who could have at a minimum helped Alaska get food and water to these people even if Alaska didn’t want to get them hotels. A supervisor could have easily gone out of security to meet a pizza man or some sort of delivery and brought it to those passengers. Why didn’t Alaska try to work with their partner? That seems odd to me.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 113
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:18 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I don't get how anyone could read the article and defend Alaska. They mishandled every single aspect of this . It's kind of incredible how they did such a poor job.

Imagine being the people before you post such ridiculous comments. The people definding AS ironically would be the most outraged if it happen to them.

It would have taken maybe an hour tops for an Alaska rep to call every hotel near BUF and book rooms. That is if they didn't even have internet access and couldn't see what hotels had big blocks of rooms. This was AS being cheap they wanted the plane back in BOS, so they needed those people in the airport and not sleeping in a hotel.


Big AS fail, they better not let this happen again , because right now it looks totally possible with zero East coast crew base. AS management fail, the local staff didn't fail they did.


LOL. Who was defending Alaska from start to finish? I don’t think anyone did. Seems like you’re using that to drive your narrative.

I’m guessing you’ve never worked customer service or ops for an airline. It would not take an hour. Airlines and their reservations and ops centers generally don’t have access to hotel reservation systems. You can’t do group bookings on Expedia FYI and it was so late availability on the web would show for the next day, not that night.

As an example. I was on a downgauged Delta Connection flight that caused an overbooking of 8. I volunteered. Guess how long it took for them to work rebookings, compensation, and accommodations for those folks and myself at LAX - a Delta hub? Two hours...with a supervisor. In part because people would come up and yell and scream at them while they were trying to work.

Suggesting Alaska has a systemwide issue because of one bad incident at an outstation is just as dumb as folks wholeheartedly defending Alaska - which btw I still don’t see anyone doing. Seems like everyone is in agreeance they messed up. It is also clear many on here people don’t understand the difficulties of irregular operations, especially at a station where the airline has no staff. Their goal was likely to move them out of Buffalo ASAP. Which they did. After that is where they really messed up.


I don’t see anywhere in slcdeltarumd11’s post that they suggested Alaska has a systemwide issue. But it’s apparent they have an East Coast irrops issue.

According to the article this plane diverted to BUF around 9:30pm ET or 6:30pm PT back at Alaska’s op’s center. It wasn’t like this happened at 4am ET/ 1am PT. Any major US carrier is going to have contact numbers for all the major hotel chains and their subsidieraies. Alaska has contracts with these hotels and access to departments regular consumers and groups don’t. From the article it’s reading like Alaska chose not to even try to help these people because they want to be cheap and get the plane and passengers back to BOS. On top of the fact Alaska didn’t try to get these passengers accommodated in hotels I also don’t understand why Alaska didn’t reach out to partner AA, who they’ve strengthened their relationship recently and who have a decent size operation in BUF. At 9:30pm AA would have still had agents waiting on the last flights of the evening to arrive and surely there was a Supervisor who could have at a minimum helped Alaska get food and water to these people even if Alaska didn’t want to get them hotels. A supervisor could have easily gone out of security to meet a pizza man or some sort of delivery and brought it to those passengers. Why didn’t Alaska try to work with their partner? That seems odd to me.


Do you work for an airline? Local stations have contracts with local hotels, not the brand. Hotels are franchises. Individually owned. Also, Alaska has not strengthened their relationship with American. Not sure where you got that idea. They had to reduce their relationship with AA. Besides a codeshare or marketing agreement doesn’t mean they have any IRROPS obligations. And I can guarantee you most supervisors don’t have the ability to force overtime on their own employees for another carrier. That’s a station manager duty and while they should be available by phone they have M-F business hours. Would it be nice if everything was as easy as booking a 100 rooms on an app? Sure. But it isn’t that way. Again, by the time this would have all been figured out the replacement plane would have been there. And once again, the Boston part of the nightmare is screwed up no matter what. The Buffalo issue is just not as easy as everyone thinks. It doesn’t matter what airline was involved.
 
questions
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:27 am

DocLightning wrote:
That was especially frustrating because here we are at our destination, AT OUR GATE, and we can't get off the plane. For 45 minutes.


... and it wasn’t like it was a surprise visit... they knew exactly when that flight was scheduled to land!!

[Travel pet peeve of mine.]
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:43 am

I don't think folks understand that each station is essentially its own business. They have a budget. Alaska may have called American or whatever airline and they may have been unwilling to assist or did not know how to assist in fear of getting in trouble from their own higher ups. Again, not everything is so simple. A supervisor and a manager would have to explain to corporate why they gave out overtime for another airline's operation. Or someone would have to figure out the cost and reimbursement from Alaska. Then there's liability if the other airline gave out wrong information or compensation, etc. There may have been no one high enough at any airline in Buffalo on a Saturday evening to authorize such a thing. Even if they're "partners".

Anyways this doesn't change the passengers's experience or the compensation they should receive.
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:46 am

LAXBUR wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

LOL. Who was defending Alaska from start to finish? I don’t think anyone did. Seems like you’re using that to drive your narrative.

I’m guessing you’ve never worked customer service or ops for an airline. It would not take an hour. Airlines and their reservations and ops centers generally don’t have access to hotel reservation systems. You can’t do group bookings on Expedia FYI and it was so late availability on the web would show for the next day, not that night.

As an example. I was on a downgauged Delta Connection flight that caused an overbooking of 8. I volunteered. Guess how long it took for them to work rebookings, compensation, and accommodations for those folks and myself at LAX - a Delta hub? Two hours...with a supervisor. In part because people would come up and yell and scream at them while they were trying to work.

Suggesting Alaska has a systemwide issue because of one bad incident at an outstation is just as dumb as folks wholeheartedly defending Alaska - which btw I still don’t see anyone doing. Seems like everyone is in agreeance they messed up. It is also clear many on here people don’t understand the difficulties of irregular operations, especially at a station where the airline has no staff. Their goal was likely to move them out of Buffalo ASAP. Which they did. After that is where they really messed up.


I don’t see anywhere in slcdeltarumd11’s post that they suggested Alaska has a systemwide issue. But it’s apparent they have an East Coast irrops issue.

According to the article this plane diverted to BUF around 9:30pm ET or 6:30pm PT back at Alaska’s op’s center. It wasn’t like this happened at 4am ET/ 1am PT. Any major US carrier is going to have contact numbers for all the major hotel chains and their subsidieraies. Alaska has contracts with these hotels and access to departments regular consumers and groups don’t. From the article it’s reading like Alaska chose not to even try to help these people because they want to be cheap and get the plane and passengers back to BOS. On top of the fact Alaska didn’t try to get these passengers accommodated in hotels I also don’t understand why Alaska didn’t reach out to partner AA, who they’ve strengthened their relationship recently and who have a decent size operation in BUF. At 9:30pm AA would have still had agents waiting on the last flights of the evening to arrive and surely there was a Supervisor who could have at a minimum helped Alaska get food and water to these people even if Alaska didn’t want to get them hotels. A supervisor could have easily gone out of security to meet a pizza man or some sort of delivery and brought it to those passengers. Why didn’t Alaska try to work with their partner? That seems odd to me.


Do you work for an airline? Local stations have contracts with local hotels, not the brand. Hotels are franchises. Individually owned. Also, Alaska has not strengthened their relationship with American. Not sure where you got that idea. They had to reduce their relationship with AA. Besides a codeshare or marketing agreement doesn’t mean they have any IRROPS obligations. And I can guarantee you most supervisors don’t have the ability to force overtime on their own employees for another carrier. That’s a station manager duty and while they should be available by phone they have M-F business hours. Would it be nice if everything was as easy as booking a 100 rooms on an app? Sure. But it isn’t that way. Again, by the time this would have all been figured out the replacement plane would have been there. And once again, the Boston part of the nightmare is screwed up no matter what. The Buffalo issue is just not as easy as everyone thinks. It doesn’t matter what airline was involved.


Nope, don’t work for an airline which probably is evident as clearly I wasn’t up to speed on the AS/AA partnership. I admit I don’t fly AS, largely because I’m based on the East Coast, but I surely won’t now. I’m sure when their ops are normal they do a good job. But it’s how you handle the unexpected when things go sideways that makes you a great airline and they clearly aren’t there yet.

But sounds like you work for an airline since I’m the second person you’ve questioned on it. Which airline do you work for?
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:06 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

I don’t see anywhere in slcdeltarumd11’s post that they suggested Alaska has a systemwide issue. But it’s apparent they have an East Coast irrops issue.

According to the article this plane diverted to BUF around 9:30pm ET or 6:30pm PT back at Alaska’s op’s center. It wasn’t like this happened at 4am ET/ 1am PT. Any major US carrier is going to have contact numbers for all the major hotel chains and their subsidieraies. Alaska has contracts with these hotels and access to departments regular consumers and groups don’t. From the article it’s reading like Alaska chose not to even try to help these people because they want to be cheap and get the plane and passengers back to BOS. On top of the fact Alaska didn’t try to get these passengers accommodated in hotels I also don’t understand why Alaska didn’t reach out to partner AA, who they’ve strengthened their relationship recently and who have a decent size operation in BUF. At 9:30pm AA would have still had agents waiting on the last flights of the evening to arrive and surely there was a Supervisor who could have at a minimum helped Alaska get food and water to these people even if Alaska didn’t want to get them hotels. A supervisor could have easily gone out of security to meet a pizza man or some sort of delivery and brought it to those passengers. Why didn’t Alaska try to work with their partner? That seems odd to me.


Do you work for an airline? Local stations have contracts with local hotels, not the brand. Hotels are franchises. Individually owned. Also, Alaska has not strengthened their relationship with American. Not sure where you got that idea. They had to reduce their relationship with AA. Besides a codeshare or marketing agreement doesn’t mean they have any IRROPS obligations. And I can guarantee you most supervisors don’t have the ability to force overtime on their own employees for another carrier. That’s a station manager duty and while they should be available by phone they have M-F business hours. Would it be nice if everything was as easy as booking a 100 rooms on an app? Sure. But it isn’t that way. Again, by the time this would have all been figured out the replacement plane would have been there. And once again, the Boston part of the nightmare is screwed up no matter what. The Buffalo issue is just not as easy as everyone thinks. It doesn’t matter what airline was involved.


Nope, don’t work for an airline which probably is evident as clearly I wasn’t up to speed on the AS/AA partnership. I admit I don’t fly AS, largely because I’m based on the East Coast, but I surely won’t now. I’m sure when their ops are normal they do a good job. But it’s how you handle the unexpected when things go sideways that makes you a great airline and they clearly aren’t there yet.

But sounds like you work for an airline since I’m the second person you’ve questioned on it. Which airline do you work for?


Because no other airline has ever had something similar happen. At least weekly someone is posting some airline service meltdown from a racist CSA to a stranded plane. May I suggest private jet next time? And I hope Expedia includes a grade on airlines "emergency diversion handlings" so I know who to book in that 1% chance I have an emergency landing. lol

I haven't worked for an airline for over a decade. I have friends that work at Alaska, Southwest, and Delta currently. All have operational meltdowns. You're pretty naive if you think this is one time thing is indicative of Alaska's whole operation and that this hasn't happened on any other major airline. Remember when jetBlue kept people on a the tarmac for ten hours? Or last year when Delta kept people on a plane for 12 hours in Kansas City?
 
TW870
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:10 am

I think we are obsessing about the wrong part of the story. The major problem I see is at BOS, not BUF.

In this situation, the best option in BUF may have been to keep the passengers in the terminal for a roughly 7 hour sit from 9pm to 4am. I know that sounds awful, but it may have been even worse to do otherwise. Neither the originally scheduled crew nor the ferry crew likely had the time left to do BUF-LAX at 4am, so your choices are either lay everyone over for a long layover at hotels to make the crew legal, or use exiting crew time (either of the ferry crew or as a continuous duty overnight BOS-BUF-BOS for the original crew) to get the passengers back to BOS. Like others have said, even if you worked on a hotel plan right away beginning at 9pm when the flight arrived at BUF, there would not have been local staff to implement that efficiently and get folks transport to hotels, etc. Keeping them in the airport and getting them back to BOS is not good, but it would let BOS originators opt to cancel trips if they wanted to, and then would give options to everyone else.

The inexcusable part is not have a solid, well executed recovery plan the moment the aircraft blocked on at Logan. They should have offered everyone a full refund, a day hotel stay, itinerary change, or anything. Doing a 4:30pm blanket rebook (which it sounds like they did) is just insane, and is not an option. They had at least 10 hours in their ops center to get a full plan ready to meet those folks at BOS, and instead it sounds like they bungled it.
 
questions
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:16 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Wow, I can't believe the awful service recovery by AS. What poor treatment these passengers received from the AS staff in BOS!

Alaska Airlines faced a furious reaction from outraged passengers Monday after a weekend flight from Boston to L.A. was diverted to Buffalo, New York, and turned into a 30-hour nightmare journey.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... assengers/


This is a great example of the airline industry’s underlying operating philosophy that The Customer Is The Enemy.

AS has a team of 24(!) looking at this situation. This is very telling in how systemic the lack of irregular operations procedures are. They didn’t even exist. It is obvious AS had never thought through how a diversion to an airport where they have no operations would be handled. Absolutely crazy!

They did the very basics — took care of the crew and sent a replacement aircraft. AS did absolutely nothing to help their stranded CUSTOMERS... didn’t prepare their call center employees to help them... didn’t prepare their BOS staff to help them... and did not try to get them to LAX in the most expeditious manner.

AS failed in every aspect of service recovery because they never think about the customer. EVER.

Frankly, the corporate spokesperson’s response fell flat.

AS is never going to be more than a super regional. During the next recession they will be looking for a merger partner.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:17 am

TW870 wrote:
I think we are obsessing about the wrong part of the story. The major problem I see is at BOS, not BUF.

In this situation, the best option in BUF may have been to keep the passengers in the terminal for a roughly 7 hour sit from 9pm to 4am. I know that sounds awful, but it may have been even worse to do otherwise. Neither the originally scheduled crew nor the ferry crew likely had the time left to do BUF-LAX at 4am, so your choices are either lay everyone over for a long layover at hotels to make the crew legal, or use exiting crew time (either of the ferry crew or as a continuous duty overnight BOS-BUF-BOS for the original crew) to get the passengers back to BOS. Like others have said, even if you worked on a hotel plan right away beginning at 9pm when the flight arrived at BUF, there would not have been local staff to implement that efficiently and get folks transport to hotels, etc. Keeping them in the airport and getting them back to BOS is not good, but it would let BOS originators opt to cancel trips if they wanted to, and then would give options to everyone else.

The inexcusable part is not have a solid, well executed recovery plan the moment the aircraft blocked on at Logan. They should have offered everyone a full refund, a day hotel stay, itinerary change, or anything. Doing a 4:30pm blanket rebook (which it sounds like they did) is just insane, and is not an option. They had at least 10 hours in their ops center to get a full plan ready to meet those folks at BOS, and instead it sounds like they bungled it.


Yes, 100%. The Boston ordeal was completely inexcusable and stupid. But for some reason people want to focus on midnight pizza at Buffalo.
 
questions
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:24 am

TW870 wrote:
... the ferry crew...


How is ferry crew duty time calculated? For example could a ferry crew have been flown on the replacement aircraft and then fly BUF-LAX without timing out? Or does their duty time include the time they are on the replacement aircraft enroute to BUF?
 
TW870
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:44 am

questions wrote:
TW870 wrote:
... the ferry crew...


How is ferry crew duty time calculated? For example could a ferry crew have been flown on the replacement aircraft and then fly BUF-LAX without timing out? Or does their duty time include the time they are on the replacement aircraft enroute to BUF?


Duty time is duty time, whether you are on duty flying the airplane with passengers, flying it empty, or deadheading on it. This is why they couldn't deadhead a crew in from the west coast and then turn around and fly. Legal rest means being behind the door of a hotel room or of your house. If the pilots who flew BOS-BUF flew it back to BOS at 4am, they would have been doing a "continuous duty overnight" or "stand up", where the trip would have been one solid duty period from 6pm to 6am with a 7 hour sit at BUF. I am not sure of VX's contract allows them to do this, but they are common in the regionals. But in no case could anyone have turned around and gone to LAX because the duty day is just too long.
 
questions
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:54 am

TW870 wrote:
questions wrote:
TW870 wrote:
... the ferry crew...


How is ferry crew duty time calculated? For example could a ferry crew have been flown on the replacement aircraft and then fly BUF-LAX without timing out? Or does their duty time include the time they are on the replacement aircraft enroute to BUF?


Duty time is duty time, whether you are on duty flying the airplane with passengers, flying it empty, or deadheading on it. This is why they couldn't deadhead a crew in from the west coast and then turn around and fly. Legal rest means being behind the door of a hotel room or of your house. If the pilots who flew BOS-BUF flew it back to BOS at 4am, they would have been doing a "continuous duty overnight" or "stand up", where the trip would have been one solid duty period from 6pm to 6am with a 7 hour sit at BUF. I am not sure of VX's contract allows them to do this, but they are common in the regionals. But in no case could anyone have turned around and gone to LAX because the duty day is just too long.


Thanks for the explanation.

So AS flew back to BOS. The question then is, why didn’t AS quickly turn and fly BOS-LAX? Because there wasn’t another crew in BOS to work the flight?
 
n7371f
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:09 am

Credit to AS' main spokeswoman for being rather upfront in her public comments. Her response to media inquiries was real, human, unlike most of the b.s. babble that emulates from the mouthpieces.
 
d8s
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:15 am

Ziyulu wrote:
This was a VX plane. Does that change anything?


AS has publicly come out about the maintenance issues of the ex-VX planes. I fly AS regularly and every maintenance issue I have had int he past year was an ex-VX plane. (Had one last Sunday) I am to the point where I will not fly on them.

Another huge AS issue is the lack of information updates. I will look at FlightAware or other apps and the updated flight info is posted well before the AS app.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:33 am

questions wrote:
AS failed in every aspect of service recovery because they never think about the customer. EVER.


As a very regular AS customer who doesn't work in the airline industry I can tell you this is ridiculous. They have their issues, and the issues are significantly worse at eastern outstations. It is clear after this incident that they were systematically unprepared for this sort of diversion and need to do a lot of thinking and training. But when they are prepared, they are significantly more customer-focused than the legacies. I've probably had 30 AS employees go out of their way to help me, a customer, in the last two years, and the proportion of AS employees who are outstanding at their jobs is startlingly high. The contrast to the last airline I flew similarly often, pre-merger US on the East Coast, couldn't be more stark.

d8s wrote:
AS has publicly come out about the maintenance issues of the ex-VX planes.


We've had contrasting reports from insiders here, some saying that AS let these aircraft go after the merger and others saying that they arrived from VX held together with speed tape. In any event I've had the same experience. My mechanical delays in the last two years have included one 1/2-hour incident on an Alaska 738 and several, some requiring replacement aircraft, on VX 319s and 320s.
 
NW
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:38 am

alasizon wrote:
NW wrote:
Airlines have diversion agreements/processes with other airlines for situations like this. Surprised AS didn't contact its partner AA or even DL/UA for assistance with ground handling and getting these customer in a hotel in Buffalo.


Likely one of the OALs help handle the flight but its pretty hard to issue hotels for another airline's passengers unless you have direct access to their system.


Using Delta's and United system it's pretty easy. Can't speak for American's.
 
n7371f
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:38 am

The issue is AS had ZERO experience with Airbus builds - and not to get technical - even their weekly maintenance upkeep is different than Boeing. AS has admitted it struggled with the learning curve on Airbus. Whether that's because they jettisoned everyone in Burlingame, which I doubt, or just not being open to understanding the potential for differentiation, I don't know. I will say internal industry criticism has regularly criticized Brad & Ben for being naive and not having enough minds on board that had prior merger experience.

seabosdca wrote:
questions wrote:
AS failed in every aspect of service recovery because they never think about the customer. EVER.


As a very regular AS customer who doesn't work in the airline industry I can tell you this is ridiculous. They have their issues, and the issues are significantly worse at eastern outstations. It is clear after this incident that they were systematically unprepared for this sort of diversion and need to do a lot of thinking and training. But when they are prepared, they are significantly more customer-focused than the legacies. I've probably had 30 AS employees go out of their way to help me, a customer, in the last two years, and the proportion of AS employees who are outstanding at their jobs is startlingly high. The contrast to the last airline I flew similarly often, pre-merger US on the East Coast, couldn't be more stark.

d8s wrote:
AS has publicly come out about the maintenance issues of the ex-VX planes.


We've had contrasting reports from insiders here, some saying that AS let these aircraft go after the merger and others saying that they arrived from VX held together with speed tape. In any event I've had the same experience. My mechanical delays in the last two years have included one 1/2-hour incident on an Alaska 738 and several, some requiring replacement aircraft, on VX 319s and 320s.
 
questions
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:46 am

seabosdca wrote:
questions wrote:


As a very regular AS customer who doesn't work in the airline industry I can tell you this is ridiculous.


This was a re-write gone bad. It should have said:

AS failed in every aspect of service recovery because they never, EVER thought about the customer.

I.e., during this diversion and attempted recovery.
 
questions
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:54 am

n7371f wrote:
I will say internal industry criticism has regularly criticized Brad & Ben for being naive and not having enough minds on board that had prior merger experience.


Agree. Finding money in efficiencies and making growth targets through an acquisition is incredibly hard. They were absolutely naive for not having the right talent.
 
chrisair
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:08 am

seabosdca wrote:
I've probably had 30 AS employees go out of their way to help me, a customer, in the last two years, and the proportion of AS employees who are outstanding at their jobs is startlingly high.


I think it is important to differentiate between individual employees and the management at Angle Lake that's so focused on metrics and those JD Power awards. I don't think we're getting the full picture of the BUF stop and whether the crew provided updates when (or if) they had them. That doesn't concern me. It's unfortunate nobody got them pizza, or whatever, but the really concerning thing is what happened in Boston. Contract folks or not, it's really is indicative of the "new" culture from B&B. People are so focused on the metrics that they can't see outside their box: "You have a flight at 4p, we can't give you anything else." Where was the Station Manager? They're an Alaska employee. They can make decisions and (supposedly) are empowered to make things right for customers.
 
d8s
Posts: 94
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:17 am

d8s wrote:
AS has publicly come out about the maintenance issues of the ex-VX planes.


We've had contrasting reports from insiders here, some saying that AS let these aircraft go after the merger and others saying that they arrived from VX held together with speed tape. In any event I've had the same experience. My mechanical delays in the last two years have included one 1/2-hour incident on an Alaska 738 and several, some requiring replacement aircraft, on VX 319s and 320s.[/quote]

Alaska said its Airbus jets have suffered from maintenance problems — plus flight cancellations that spurred customer complaints — for reasons beyond the airline's control. Alaska canceled several Virgin America flights over the past month because Alaska lacked aircraft to fly them, Alaska told employees in a March 29 memo.
"We've had a bit more out-of-service airplanes on the Airbus," Minicucci said.

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... blems.html
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:23 am

questions wrote:
So AS flew back to BOS. The question then is, why didn’t AS quickly turn and fly BOS-LAX? Because there wasn’t another crew in BOS to work the flight?


That must be it. And with their only crew bases on the west coast, this is not the last time we will be seeing something like this from them. Neither the pilots or the FAs can be sent from the west coast and then immediately turn a plane back around. The FAs can only be scheduled for 10.5 hours at a time, the Pilots probably even less.

This is the danger when you have all your crew bases just on one coast.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:09 am

CobaltScar wrote:
questions wrote:
So AS flew back to BOS. The question then is, why didn’t AS quickly turn and fly BOS-LAX? Because there wasn’t another crew in BOS to work the flight?


That must be it. And with their only crew bases on the west coast, this is not the last time we will be seeing something like this from them. Neither the pilots or the FAs can be sent from the west coast and then immediately turn a plane back around. The FAs can only be scheduled for 10.5 hours at a time, the Pilots probably even less.

This is the danger when you have all your crew bases just on one coast.


You’d think they could plan for this by having one flight crew that flies into say JFK, then rests and has 24 hours on reserve, then flies back to SEA. Essentially keep one or two crews on the east coast on reserve.
 
QXAS
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:46 am

Number 1: Good job pilots for landing safely.
Number 2: The BUF portion was handled just about as well as I see any diversion to an airport the involved airline doesn’t serve late in the day would go. Was security even open to get food into the terminal? Do Pilots/FA’s carry company credit cards to buy the food? The passengers can’t leave security when the rescue plane is on the way, they wouldn’t have been able to get back into the terminal when the time came.
Number 3: It makes some sense to get the passengers to BOS. It’s an AS station and it’s very close to BUF so the crew could actually get there without timing out. It gets the passengers to a place where they can be more efficiently processed to their final destinations. In theory, AS agents would be able to efficiently and professionally get the job done in BOS. There’s no AS staff in BUF.
Number 4: The BOS people inexplicably and inexcusably dropped the ball. Their actions were so unlike any I’ve ever witnessed in all my years flying on AS. BOS customer service was a complete disaster.
Number 5: Ops also inexplicably dropped the ball. They should have had a third, off duty, crew on AS 348 from SFO getting into BOS at 6:30 AM or AS 24 from SEA getting into BOS at 6:00 AM to fly the rescue plane, passengers and as many crew as they can, back to LAX. It would have left BOS no later than 7:30 AM. AS knew that they were going to have a plane full of people show up in BOS in the early AM needing to get to LAX ASAP. There was enough time to get a crew onto one of those two flights.

This was a perfect storm of events. It was combined with very poor customer service and Ops failing to have the foresight to see that once the rescue crew was in BUF they’d need a fresh crew who wasn’t on duty to fly the rescue plane back. AS certainly showed a lack of expertise with irrops when it came to this situation. I hope all passengers were compensated very well in money, not miles.

Unfortunately, the way the industry works is that nobody thinks anything is a problem until it’s a really big problem. That’s the sad truth of Aviation. In this specific case, AS is par for the course. Hopefully they learn and next time a plane has to divert to an airport they don’t serve, AS can better handle the situation. Just as the industry has learned a little bit (and in some cases a lot) most times something goes wrong.
 
737tanker
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 am

QXAS
Your Number 5 is incorrect. If there was a crew on AS 348 in the back they would have been on duty. I don’t know what the AS CBA states but FARs only allow a crew to be on duty a maximum of 14 hours, even less based on The time of day that the duty started. So even a crew riding in the back from SFO would need rest in BOS
 
zrb2
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:05 pm

QXAS wrote:
Number 1: Good job pilots for landing safely.
Number 2: The BUF portion was handled just about as well as I see any diversion to an airport the involved airline doesn’t serve late in the day would go. Was security even open to get food into the terminal? Do Pilots/FA’s carry company credit cards to buy the food? The passengers can’t leave security when the rescue plane is on the way, they wouldn’t have been able to get back into the terminal when the time came.
Number 3: It makes some sense to get the passengers to BOS. It’s an AS station and it’s very close to BUF so the crew could actually get there without timing out. It gets the passengers to a place where they can be more efficiently processed to their final destinations. In theory, AS agents would be able to efficiently and professionally get the job done in BOS. There’s no AS staff in BUF.
Number 4: The BOS people inexplicably and inexcusably dropped the ball. Their actions were so unlike any I’ve ever witnessed in all my years flying on AS. BOS customer service was a complete disaster.
Number 5: Ops also inexplicably dropped the ball. They should have had a third, off duty, crew on AS 348 from SFO getting into BOS at 6:30 AM or AS 24 from SEA getting into BOS at 6:00 AM to fly the rescue plane, passengers and as many crew as they can, back to LAX. It would have left BOS no later than 7:30 AM. AS knew that they were going to have a plane full of people show up in BOS in the early AM needing to get to LAX ASAP. There was enough time to get a crew onto one of those two flights.

This was a perfect storm of events. It was combined with very poor customer service and Ops failing to have the foresight to see that once the rescue crew was in BUF they’d need a fresh crew who wasn’t on duty to fly the rescue plane back. AS certainly showed a lack of expertise with irrops when it came to this situation. I hope all passengers were compensated very well in money, not miles.

Unfortunately, the way the industry works is that nobody thinks anything is a problem until it’s a really big problem. That’s the sad truth of Aviation. In this specific case, AS is par for the course. Hopefully they learn and next time a plane has to divert to an airport they don’t serve, AS can better handle the situation. Just as the industry has learned a little bit (and in some cases a lot) most times something goes wrong.


Nice job. That's a clear recap of everything. The thing is, Alaska operations should be able to foresee what is going to piss off the passengers in a situation like this while it's happening. There's been enough situations like this over the years. The Airline should have been able to get out in front of it. the one thing the pax should understand is that diversion to Buffalo and waiting for the rescue plane at 3:30am is an unfortunate thing but it made sense. But they were safe, no one died in a fiery plane crash. A phone call or two could have gotten them food. Plenty of restaurants and pizza joints around BUF and there are 12+ arrivals into that airport after 10pm. It's not a ghost town. Once they touched back down at BOS things could have been handled much better.
 
QXAS
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:08 pm

737tanker wrote:
QXAS
Your Number 5 is incorrect. If there was a crew on AS 348 in the back they would have been on duty. I don’t know what the AS CBA states but FARs only allow a crew to be on duty a maximum of 14 hours, even less based on The time of day that the duty started. So even a crew riding in the back from SFO would need rest in BOS

Even if they’re flying on 348 as normal passengers? My understanding of that particular FAR is that on duty means you are one of the uniformed people on board the plane who are actively working the flight. I could very easily be wrong though, I’m just an instrument pilot so I don’t pay too much attention to Part 121/Part 135. Crews commute. Are they on duty while they commute? Could such a situation be treated as such?
 
MO11
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:15 pm

QXAS wrote:
737tanker wrote:
QXAS
Your Number 5 is incorrect. If there was a crew on AS 348 in the back they would have been on duty. I don’t know what the AS CBA states but FARs only allow a crew to be on duty a maximum of 14 hours, even less based on The time of day that the duty started. So even a crew riding in the back from SFO would need rest in BOS

Even if they’re flying on 348 as normal passengers? My understanding of that particular FAR is that on duty means you are one of the uniformed people on board the plane who are actively working the flight. I could very easily be wrong though, I’m just an instrument pilot so I don’t pay too much attention to Part 121/Part 135. Crews commute. Are they on duty while they commute? Could such a situation be treated as such?


Commuting is off-duty. Deadheading is on-duty. At some airlines there are entire crew-days that involve deadheading to another station to pick up an airplane on the following day. The crew gets paid for the deadhead portion.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:53 pm

questions wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Wow, I can't believe the awful service recovery by AS. What poor treatment these passengers received from the AS staff in BOS!

Alaska Airlines faced a furious reaction from outraged passengers Monday after a weekend flight from Boston to L.A. was diverted to Buffalo, New York, and turned into a 30-hour nightmare journey.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... assengers/


This is a great example of the airline industry’s underlying operating philosophy that The Customer Is The Enemy.

AS has a team of 24(!) looking at this situation. This is very telling in how systemic the lack of irregular operations procedures are. They didn’t even exist. It is obvious AS had never thought through how a diversion to an airport where they have no operations would be handled. Absolutely crazy!

They did the very basics — took care of the crew and sent a replacement aircraft. AS did absolutely nothing to help their stranded CUSTOMERS... didn’t prepare their call center employees to help them... didn’t prepare their BOS staff to help them... and did not try to get them to LAX in the most expeditious manner.

AS failed in every aspect of service recovery because they never think about the customer. EVER.

Frankly, the corporate spokesperson’s response fell flat.

AS is never going to be more than a super regional. During the next recession they will be looking for a merger partner.


I respect your response but find it a bit over the top. Nonetheless, they screwed up so no point in wasting time defending them.

Separate from “defending them”, the flight into BOS arrived at the same time as the effects of the network outage issues. Not just the actual outage but the after-effects. They were getting inundated with customer service queries and complaints and were dealing with all the knock-on effects of delayed flights and downline repercussions. That Seattle let this diversion just fall in with everything else going on is unfortunate and frustrating, and the BOS station manager not doing more is also disappointing.

I don’t think AS needs 24 ppl to investigate this mess. I think they are likely doing an all-departments procedural review because this exposed a blind spot. Cast stones at them for that weakness but at least recognize that they are trying to get everyone on the same page so it doesn’t happen again.

Someone bringing up “B6” or whatever is not so much about diverting attention as it is about saying “We see crap happen all the time with these airlines and, while clearly some are better and some are worse, they’ve all made the news from time to time.

Last week my SIL was flying Los Angeles-PHX-SEA and her first leg was delayed significantly and she was told she might be stuck when she gets to PHX until the next day. At PHX she had to sit and wait as she was on a wait list that was long and nothing was offered for the trouble. Hours at her LA airport. Hours at PHX. Fine. Someone I know at AS questioned why they weren’t offered food vouchers or miles or something for the inconvenience. My question was why AA was still selling seats on that very flight when they knew they had misconnects standing at the counter being told “We’ll see what happens”. This at a hub. And on a legacy. She eventually made it on and texted a pic of a cookie aka Lunch and Dinner. I guess I kinda thought that this is just the way airlines operate but clearly it’s inconsistent from airline to airline, station to station, or employee to employee.

Hopefully these incidents - regardless of the airline involved - lead to improvements.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:10 pm

When a weather event hits DFW, and airports like OKC and AUS are inundated with AA flights, complete chaos always ensues at those airports (which are obviously AA stations). This is anecdotal of course, but speaking from experience it's always a shit-show.
So, in AA's ~ 90 years of operation (~40 years with a hub at DFW) they still haven't figured this out.
 
QXAS
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:08 pm

MO11 wrote:
QXAS wrote:
737tanker wrote:
QXAS
Your Number 5 is incorrect. If there was a crew on AS 348 in the back they would have been on duty. I don’t know what the AS CBA states but FARs only allow a crew to be on duty a maximum of 14 hours, even less based on The time of day that the duty started. So even a crew riding in the back from SFO would need rest in BOS

Even if they’re flying on 348 as normal passengers? My understanding of that particular FAR is that on duty means you are one of the uniformed people on board the plane who are actively working the flight. I could very easily be wrong though, I’m just an instrument pilot so I don’t pay too much attention to Part 121/Part 135. Crews commute. Are they on duty while they commute? Could such a situation be treated as such?


Commuting is off-duty. Deadheading is on-duty. At some airlines there are entire crew-days that involve deadheading to another station to pick up an airplane on the following day. The crew gets paid for the deadhead portion.

Thanks for the clarification.
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:52 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
When a weather event hits DFW, and airports like OKC and AUS are inundated with AA flights, complete chaos always ensues at those airports (which are obviously AA stations). This is anecdotal of course, but speaking from experience it's always a shit-show.
So, in AA's ~ 90 years of operation (~40 years with a hub at DFW) they still haven't figured this out.


Oh come on - how can you be serious with this statement?

1). This wasn’t a weather event
2). The example you’re giving is when anywhere from 10-20 AA flights are diverted to ONE airport. Not ONE AA flight being diverted like this ONE AS flight.

This is absurd you’d even try and compare the two scenarios.
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:02 am

To all the posters (which at this point there’s to many to quote in one post) saying this was a “perfect storm” please stop. That term refers to an incident that nobody has ever experienced before and doesn’t know how to handle. In the last 70-years of commercial aviation (the length of time AS has been in passenger ops) there’s been thousands of diversions to both airports that the airlines serve and some they don’t. This was NOT a perfect storm. This was a disaster on all accounts for AS.

How is it that DL can get stranded passengers from a PEK-SEA flight that diverted to a remote island in Alaska (Shemya) in 12-hours when there’s ZERO passengers operations there, but it takes AS 30-hours to get passengers from BUF-LAX when AS has ops at both DTW & PIT, both of which are closer to BUF than BOS??
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:58 am

questions wrote:
Frankly, the corporate spokesperson’s response fell flat.


I’ve been trying to stay out of this, lest I be accused of being an apologist, but can you tell me which part of the response fell flat? The one where every customer received a personal phone call from executives (VP or above) apologizing profusely for how things were mishandled, the full refund of each ticket, the full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay, or the additional $1000 credit each customer also received in addition to all this?

AS dropped the ball, yes. It could and should have been handed far better, yes. It’s also a huge learning opportunity they’re diving deep into to ensure never happens again, and they’re doing everything possible to make things right by each customer.

Also, agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers, but at that time the best option was remaining on AS. (Until it wasn’t)
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:07 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
To all the posters (which at this point there’s to many to quote in one post) saying this was a “perfect storm” please stop. That term refers to an incident that nobody has ever experienced before and doesn’t know how to handle. In the last 70-years of commercial aviation (the length of time AS has been in passenger ops) there’s been thousands of diversions to both airports that the airlines serve and some they don’t. This was NOT a perfect storm. This was a disaster on all accounts for AS.

How is it that DL can get stranded passengers from a PEK-SEA flight that diverted to a remote island in Alaska (Shemya) in 12-hours when there’s ZERO passengers operations there, but it takes AS 30-hours to get passengers from BUF-LAX when AS has ops at both DTW & PIT, both of which are closer to BUF than BOS??


I think you are perhaps over-generalizing on how some people feel about it. It’s not that it was a perfect storm, but if you are going to discuss what happened then we should discuss why it happened. Clearly the ball got dropped. Some may want to say “nothing to see here” and some may want to say “Alaska sucks” but for me and others it’s more along the lines of understanding step by step how things may have gone wrong.

I think your DL example is a good one for an entirely different reason. Like boiling a frog, one big event gets everyone’s attention real fast, but a relatively low key event can slowly get away from the powers that be and become cascading failures.

Of course it was ugly. But it doesn’t need to become more than what it was.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
chrisair
Posts: 2011
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:38 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Also, agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers, but at that time the best option was remaining on AS. (Until it wasn’t)


Sounds like "agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers" needs to be communicated to the Boston ground staff and Station Manager.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:39 am

chrisair wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Also, agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers, but at that time the best option was remaining on AS. (Until it wasn’t)


Sounds like "agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers" needs to be communicated to the Boston ground staff and Station Manager.


And you’d be correct, if the stations actually rebooked people.

They don’t.

Rebookings are handled by specialized call center agents at the direction of SOC, and at the time, as this was fluid and expected to merely be a creeping delay, remaining on AS was the best option for customers.

Obviously, that changed with crew issues and so forth but just speaking on a high level there was a detailed plan with SOC and a dedicated vendor used specifically for handling IRROPS in non-AS stations, and they were working the plan, but for various reasons things went sideways and by the time everything began to unravel, rebooking offline was still not the best option.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:45 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
When a weather event hits DFW, and airports like OKC and AUS are inundated with AA flights, complete chaos always ensues at those airports (which are obviously AA stations). This is anecdotal of course, but speaking from experience it's always a shit-show.
So, in AA's ~ 90 years of operation (~40 years with a hub at DFW) they still haven't figured this out.


Oh come on - how can you be serious with this statement?

1). This wasn’t a weather event
2). The example you’re giving is when anywhere from 10-20 AA flights are diverted to ONE airport. Not ONE AA flight being diverted like this ONE AS flight.

This is absurd you’d even try and compare the two scenarios.


Oh my; I wasn't trying to upset you. I recognize that the two scenarios aren't really comparable. The point I was trying to make was that the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side, as some have tried to make it seem in this thread. Thankfully EA CO AS has chimed in with some factual and helpful posts (as his posts typically are) that hopefully make you feel better about the situation. I can't speak for the rest of the US3, but if this scenario happened on AA instead (pretend BUF isn't an AA station) the response from AA would not have been as thorough as the AS response EA CO AS has described. SOME passengers may have gotten a call from Ft Worth, but likely not from VP level and above, and certainly not the whole plane. Please note - I'm fiercely loyal to AA, but have flown a few segments on AS, and they are always a pleasure.
 
questions
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:01 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
questions wrote:
Frankly, the corporate spokesperson’s response fell flat.


I’ve been trying to stay out of this, lest I be accused of being an apologist, but can you tell me which part of the response fell flat? The one where every customer received a personal phone call from executives (VP or above) apologizing profusely for how things were mishandled, the full refund of each ticket, the full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay, or the additional $1000 credit each customer also received in addition to all this?

AS dropped the ball, yes. It could and should have been handed far better, yes. It’s also a huge learning opportunity they’re diving deep into to ensure never happens again, and they’re doing everything possible to make things right by each customer.

Also, agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers, but at that time the best option was remaining on AS. (Until it wasn’t)


The OP posted this article:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... assengers/

In the above article, the following is stated:

”This was a really, really difficult experience for our guests, a terrible experience,” Alaska spokeswoman Bobbie Egan said in an interview. “We are deeply sorry for what our passengers had to go through.”

She said Alaska’s East Coast employees are doing a “deep dive” into all that went wrong.

“A team of two dozen people is working on this and trying to make this right for our guests,” she said.

She said the airline will send baggage to passengers via FedEx and added that the airline is “looking at up to $1,000 in compensation” per passenger, which she said could be offered in the form of refunds or vouchers for future flights, depending on individual circumstances.

She said maintenance technicians traced the electrical burning smell to a malfunctioning fan used to cool the seat back entertainment system on the Airbus A320. On Monday, Alaska was flying the plane back to a maintenance base on the West Coast.



“East Coast employees” are doing a deep dive. This language means nothing. The operational deficiencies that led to this problem are broader and deeper than what’s included in the realm of responsibilities for “East Coast employees.” AS should have come clean and stated more about the full operational review required across various functional areas to ensure all aspects of diversions and service recovery are executed in the future. Again, this is NOT about someone forgetting to order pizza for delivery.

According to the article, AS was looking into compensation up to $1000 in the form of refunds or vouchers.

You, EA CO AS, stated the much more generous compensation of:
- full refund of each ticket
- full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay
- additional $1000 credit each customer also received

My comments were based solely on the OP’s referenced article.

==> If you have information that the “deep dive” was limited to operational responsibilities under the “East Coast employees” I’d like to hear it.

==> If you have information that states explicitly that AS provided your stated generous compensation I’d like to hear it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:45 am

questions wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
questions wrote:
Frankly, the corporate spokesperson’s response fell flat.


I’ve been trying to stay out of this, lest I be accused of being an apologist, but can you tell me which part of the response fell flat? The one where every customer received a personal phone call from executives (VP or above) apologizing profusely for how things were mishandled, the full refund of each ticket, the full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay, or the additional $1000 credit each customer also received in addition to all this?

AS dropped the ball, yes. It could and should have been handed far better, yes. It’s also a huge learning opportunity they’re diving deep into to ensure never happens again, and they’re doing everything possible to make things right by each customer.

Also, agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers, but at that time the best option was remaining on AS. (Until it wasn’t)


The OP posted this article:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... assengers/

In the above article, the following is stated:

”This was a really, really difficult experience for our guests, a terrible experience,” Alaska spokeswoman Bobbie Egan said in an interview. “We are deeply sorry for what our passengers had to go through.”

She said Alaska’s East Coast employees are doing a “deep dive” into all that went wrong.

“A team of two dozen people is working on this and trying to make this right for our guests,” she said.

She said the airline will send baggage to passengers via FedEx and added that the airline is “looking at up to $1,000 in compensation” per passenger, which she said could be offered in the form of refunds or vouchers for future flights, depending on individual circumstances.

She said maintenance technicians traced the electrical burning smell to a malfunctioning fan used to cool the seat back entertainment system on the Airbus A320. On Monday, Alaska was flying the plane back to a maintenance base on the West Coast.



“East Coast employees” are doing a deep dive. This language means nothing. The operational deficiencies that led to this problem are broader and deeper than what’s included in the realm of responsibilities for “East Coast employees.” AS should have come clean and stated more about the full operational review required across various functional areas to ensure all aspects of diversions and service recovery are executed in the future. Again, this is NOT about someone forgetting to order pizza for delivery.

According to the article, AS was looking into compensation up to $1000 in the form of refunds or vouchers.

You, EA CO AS, stated the much more generous compensation of:
- full refund of each ticket
- full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay
- additional $1000 credit each customer also received

My comments were based solely on the OP’s referenced article.

==> If you have information that the “deep dive” was limited to operational responsibilities under the “East Coast employees” I’d like to hear it.

==> If you have information that states explicitly that AS provided your stated generous compensation I’d like to hear it.


Sounds like the 24 people are the folks handling the baggage/refund processing/etc for these guests. Since their luggage was back there and the problems were back there and many of the people are from back there and the screw up was back there, "back there" is taking care of it.

Aside from that, it seems like there is an intense need for this to be blown up into something more than it is. If you have a thing against Alaska, fine, but it sounds like they are trying to make things right and learn from it. Would you like blood as well?
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
User avatar
B727skyguy
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:23 am

Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:36 am

noplanepunshere wrote:
Additionally, I'm not surprised by the brick wall-type mentality of BOS staff (and other east coast staff too). We all know mx stuff happens all the time. Unfortunately, Alaska dropped the ball by either 1) not following their game plan when a diversion occurs to a non-AS city or 2) they didn't have a game plan at all.


It's my understanding that AS does not have its own staff at any of their small stations such as BOS, PHL, MKE, etc. They are all outsourced, contract staff. I know for certain that PHL is outsourced. The agents there told me so. My observation of other airlines with outsourced staff is that the quality tends to suffer. The staff don't have a vested interest in the airline, because they are not employed by the airline. If AS had its own staff at BOS, I wonder if the they would have handled the situation better.
 
questions
Posts: 1640
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:37 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
questions wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I’ve been trying to stay out of this, lest I be accused of being an apologist, but can you tell me which part of the response fell flat? The one where every customer received a personal phone call from executives (VP or above) apologizing profusely for how things were mishandled, the full refund of each ticket, the full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay, or the additional $1000 credit each customer also received in addition to all this?

AS dropped the ball, yes. It could and should have been handed far better, yes. It’s also a huge learning opportunity they’re diving deep into to ensure never happens again, and they’re doing everything possible to make things right by each customer.

Also, agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers, but at that time the best option was remaining on AS. (Until it wasn’t)


The OP posted this article:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... assengers/

In the above article, the following is stated:

”This was a really, really difficult experience for our guests, a terrible experience,” Alaska spokeswoman Bobbie Egan said in an interview. “We are deeply sorry for what our passengers had to go through.”

She said Alaska’s East Coast employees are doing a “deep dive” into all that went wrong.

“A team of two dozen people is working on this and trying to make this right for our guests,” she said.

She said the airline will send baggage to passengers via FedEx and added that the airline is “looking at up to $1,000 in compensation” per passenger, which she said could be offered in the form of refunds or vouchers for future flights, depending on individual circumstances.

She said maintenance technicians traced the electrical burning smell to a malfunctioning fan used to cool the seat back entertainment system on the Airbus A320. On Monday, Alaska was flying the plane back to a maintenance base on the West Coast.



“East Coast employees” are doing a deep dive. This language means nothing. The operational deficiencies that led to this problem are broader and deeper than what’s included in the realm of responsibilities for “East Coast employees.” AS should have come clean and stated more about the full operational review required across various functional areas to ensure all aspects of diversions and service recovery are executed in the future. Again, this is NOT about someone forgetting to order pizza for delivery.

According to the article, AS was looking into compensation up to $1000 in the form of refunds or vouchers.

You, EA CO AS, stated the much more generous compensation of:
- full refund of each ticket
- full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay
- additional $1000 credit each customer also received

My comments were based solely on the OP’s referenced article.

==> If you have information that the “deep dive” was limited to operational responsibilities under the “East Coast employees” I’d like to hear it.

==> If you have information that states explicitly that AS provided your stated generous compensation I’d like to hear it.


Sounds like the 24 people are the folks handling the baggage/refund processing/etc for these guests. Since their luggage was back there and the problems were back there and many of the people are from back there and the screw up was back there, "back there" is taking care of it.

Aside from that, it seems like there is an intense need for this to be blown up into something more than it is. If you have a thing against Alaska, fine, but it sounds like they are trying to make things right and learn from it. Would you like blood as well?


Don’t be so dramatic. :roll:

It’s clear that the root cause of the many and layered problems that occurred did not simply fall within the responsibilities of those “back there.”

Those “back there” and “over there” along with those “out there” follow standard operating procedures created and approved by those “in there.” If the “deep dive” is not a systemic review involving those decision makers “in there” then the solutions put in place will not address the root cause and will occur again “back there,” “over there” and “out there”... i.e., it will be just a band aid, e.g., “Lets make sure the phone number for ordering pizza is current.”

What occurred highlights a glaring gap in AS’s operations. It was NOT a “whoops.” Is it a big problem? Yes. Will they fix it? Maybe.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1428
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:44 am

All great efforts...after the fact. This is about the "real time" handling and like every airline before them, AS laid a dump.

EA CO AS wrote:
questions wrote:
Frankly, the corporate spokesperson’s response fell flat.


I’ve been trying to stay out of this, lest I be accused of being an apologist, but can you tell me which part of the response fell flat? The one where every customer received a personal phone call from executives (VP or above) apologizing profusely for how things were mishandled, the full refund of each ticket, the full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay, or the additional $1000 credit each customer also received in addition to all this?

AS dropped the ball, yes. It could and should have been handed far better, yes. It’s also a huge learning opportunity they’re diving deep into to ensure never happens again, and they’re doing everything possible to make things right by each customer.

Also, agents are and were empowered to rebook guests on other carriers, but at that time the best option was remaining on AS. (Until it wasn’t)
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 8920
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines flight diversion leads to 30-hr nightmare for passengers

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:23 am

questions wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
questions wrote:

The OP posted this article:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... assengers/

In the above article, the following is stated:

”This was a really, really difficult experience for our guests, a terrible experience,” Alaska spokeswoman Bobbie Egan said in an interview. “We are deeply sorry for what our passengers had to go through.”

She said Alaska’s East Coast employees are doing a “deep dive” into all that went wrong.

“A team of two dozen people is working on this and trying to make this right for our guests,” she said.

She said the airline will send baggage to passengers via FedEx and added that the airline is “looking at up to $1,000 in compensation” per passenger, which she said could be offered in the form of refunds or vouchers for future flights, depending on individual circumstances.

She said maintenance technicians traced the electrical burning smell to a malfunctioning fan used to cool the seat back entertainment system on the Airbus A320. On Monday, Alaska was flying the plane back to a maintenance base on the West Coast.



“East Coast employees” are doing a deep dive. This language means nothing. The operational deficiencies that led to this problem are broader and deeper than what’s included in the realm of responsibilities for “East Coast employees.” AS should have come clean and stated more about the full operational review required across various functional areas to ensure all aspects of diversions and service recovery are executed in the future. Again, this is NOT about someone forgetting to order pizza for delivery.

According to the article, AS was looking into compensation up to $1000 in the form of refunds or vouchers.

You, EA CO AS, stated the much more generous compensation of:
- full refund of each ticket
- full reimbursement for any expenses incurred during the delay
- additional $1000 credit each customer also received

My comments were based solely on the OP’s referenced article.

==> If you have information that the “deep dive” was limited to operational responsibilities under the “East Coast employees” I’d like to hear it.

==> If you have information that states explicitly that AS provided your stated generous compensation I’d like to hear it.


Sounds like the 24 people are the folks handling the baggage/refund processing/etc for these guests. Since their luggage was back there and the problems were back there and many of the people are from back there and the screw up was back there, "back there" is taking care of it.

Aside from that, it seems like there is an intense need for this to be blown up into something more than it is. If you have a thing against Alaska, fine, but it sounds like they are trying to make things right and learn from it. Would you like blood as well?


Don’t be so dramatic. :roll:

It’s clear that the root cause of the many and layered problems that occurred did not simply fall within the responsibilities of those “back there.”

Those “back there” and “over there” along with those “out there” follow standard operating procedures created and approved by those “in there.” If the “deep dive” is not a systemic review involving those decision makers “in there” then the solutions put in place will not address the root cause and will occur again “back there,” “over there” and “out there”... i.e., it will be just a band aid, e.g., “Lets make sure the phone number for ordering pizza is current.”

What occurred highlights a glaring gap in AS’s operations. It was NOT a “whoops.” Is it a big problem? Yes. Will they fix it? Maybe.


I’m the dramatic one? Lol. Ok.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation

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