trueblew
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:08 pm

stlgph wrote:
God I just love this thread.

Every person who obsesses with coming on here savoring anything JetBlue comes on here saying the only way to make it better is for them to merge with everyone else.

If this airline was good as you all say it is, they don't need to merge forcing everyone to fly them because there's no other options.

Brilliant logic.

Please, now continue.


Given the title of the thread, I think people are saying a merger is the only way to save B6 from its grossly inept management.
Last edited by trueblew on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
fastmover
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:08 pm

stlgph wrote:
God I just love this thread.

Every person who obsesses with coming on here savoring anything JetBlue comes on here saying the only way to make it better is for them to merge with everyone else.

If this airline was good as you all say it is, they don't need to merge forcing everyone to fly them because there's no other options.

Brilliant logic.

Please, now continue.



I agree with you. It’s kind of why I get on the lack of direction. I know many people don’t think it’s a big deal but but but unless you know what you are trying to achieve how can you achieve it?

I do agree JetBlue can be and is fine on its own I just think it needs clear goals and a management team that doesn’t bend to every little thing Wall St wants and a focus on operational performance.

The company is doing fine money wise and I think they make smart decisions there as well as paying off tons of debt. It’s the operation that is an issue.

It’s entirely possible that JetBlue will just grow but do it slowly and methodically. I still think they go to Europe. I just think it’s not as “sexy” as some would like. I do feel however the management team need to get us all going in the same direction.

If we had a real leader that concentrated on JetBlue strengths and exploited them (they kind of are with the retrenchment of routes) and someone who inspired the employees and pushed for a better JetBlue not just corporate speak the airline wouldn’t be stopped. But that’s me.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:30 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
In what world is WN a weak carrier that can’t compete on its own?


Nobody said anything about WN, for all you know it could be a B6/AS merger, aka the only option left to create a nationwide carrier that doesn't involve WN or ULCC's. Any other option is delusional.

Ummm, plenty of people have mentioned WN in this very thread. In fact, the post you responded to was about WN having a stranglehold with a hypothetical merger with B6. Nevertheless, the problem with a B6/AS merger is that it doesn’t create a nationwide carrier. The carrier would still have a giant hole in the middle of the country.


Yeah but that's the thing. If you want there to be a hole anywhere, you want it to be in the middle, because that's the easiest to fill. The coasts are hypercompetitive, so once you have both sides locked down (ie. B6/AS) you can fill in the gaps and build up the middle with any one of a dozen cities in middle America. The problem with a B6/AS merger is that it's way to obvious not to consider. I mean B6 is the east coast airline, AS the west coast airline. I can 100% guarantee both B6 and AS have thought about acquiring each other. The real question is who's gonna bite first: An AS that just bought VX or a weak B6. Alternatively, you could even do a three way merger and solve the middle hub problem by adding SY to the fold and doing B6/SY/AS. But that depends more on SY than vice-versa.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:53 pm

Merging with AS doesn't necessarily solve any of B6' main issues but rather creates new ones. In a thread lamenting B6 current management and what people think they are doing right/wrong, the focus (to me) should be on addressing those issues and not on moving onto a merger. That may come but it isn't really what this thread would seem to be about.

I'm also mixed on the idea that the size of B6 (and AS) is a death sentence. Whether they merge with one another or with a legacy, it will likely happen one day regardless. However, the point above about how it'll be the smaller carriers that go under first belies the fact that WN, AS, and B6 have never done the BK thing, even when their larger rivals were floundering. I agree that while today the US3 are a new animal, it's less about size and more about strategy. UA and AA are certainly not passive, but it's really DL that has shown a desire to gradually constrict the smaller carriers through their own product and network initiatives. SEA. BOS. LAX. JFK. Focus cities. A220's. Onboard product. High profits. To me, it's DL that the smaller guys should be concerned about and not so much just the US3 as a group. Someone up thread suggested that BH acquire B6 and watch what they accomplish. Well, imagine instead that they acquire DL - imagine the carnage that would ensue

Finally, as for B6, it sounds like they have work to do and might need some fresh leadership. They have a strong product and loyal following but probably shouldn't rest on those laurels for long.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:33 pm

stlgph wrote:
God I just love this thread.

Every person who obsesses with coming on here savoring anything JetBlue comes on here saying the only way to make it better is for them to merge with everyone else.

If this airline was good as you all say it is, they don't need to merge forcing everyone to fly them because there's no other options.

Brilliant logic.

Please, now continue.


For goodness sake, change the freaking record, we get it, you've told us a bunch of times, no merger for B6 in your eyes.. got ya, how about adding something constructive to the conversation and figuring out what a future strategy might actually look like if it's not a merger, and B6 just being B6 ain't it, that tells us nothing... all people are doing are considering available options in the market place. Most people on here are NOT in favor of B6 merging, but you conveniently miss that out in your rant posts.

I will say it again in bold. I DO NOT WANT B6 to MERGE with ANYONE, my comments have been hypothesizing that if however that were to be the case and B6 WERE to merge, how would it work to maximize the options available to them with becoming an arm of one of the big 4 or gone completely, but you ignore that.

I would be more than happy, if B6 grew organically and they appear to have a base strategy with phasing out the 190's, the 321's, more seating and higher fees to do just that, but the perception of the folks that actually work there and others on this site that work needs to be done internally to improve in a number of areas, such as communication, OTP, logistics and more otherwise they are at risk of being bought out. So let's hear your answers to that, rather than just puking over everyone else's commentary on future possibilities, because I need to go to pandora and stream a different track to tune it out.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:45 pm

ShinyAndChrome wrote:
enilria wrote:
stlgph wrote:
As I said...I love how many people think a merger of desperation or any with anybody is the best solution for this airline.

Letting JetBlue be JetBlue and work on being JetBlue....what a hell of a concept.

Well, the problem is that Delta won't let them be JetBlue. Delta is attempting to pry away the BOS cash cow that funds the whole airline. I don't think DL will necessarily win, but they will cost B6 a lot of money and the amount of money it costs DL is nickels for their size, so why not spend some of their pile of gold pushing another marginal competitor so DL can ultimately raise fares in the face of even less competition and make back their investment in messing with JetBlue? This is the system that was created with DOJ's hands off approach. DL is only guilty of taking advantage of the gifts they have been given.

So for JetBlue to continue to be JetBlue they will need a new strategy to offset the negative impact of DL sinking capacity into the most profitable part of their network.


The way you're framing it, it sounds like you want more competition unless it's DL doing it.

Let's revisit this when B6 is actually struggling. As has been stated elsewhere they're still doing well for themselves financially in spite of DL's growth in BOS. Even if they come off as strategically adrift, by the historical standards of the airline industry they're nowhere near crisis.

Of course, the problem is that DL is a giant, and JetBlue is an ant, or maybe a mouse. It's not a fair fight. DL can cross-subsidize loss-leading across the rest of its network. B6 can't do that. When NW added all of Reno Air's routes it was also technically increased competition, but there are limits.
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:00 pm

VS4ever wrote:
I would be more than happy, if B6 grew organically and they appear to have a base strategy with phasing out the 190's, the 321's, more seating and higher fees to do just that, but the perception of the folks that actually work there and others on this site that work needs to be done internally to improve in a number of areas, such as communication, OTP, logistics and more otherwise they are at risk of being bought out.

I agree with this. I think the problem is that DL will likely take away most of B6's corporate customers in BOS over time just because they can cross-leverage the rest of their network with the Fortune 500. The leak of the UA Apple corporate contract info shows just how broad a network it takes to lock down a Fortune 500 company's business. While B6 was king in BOS the corporates had to play ball with them, but give them another option with network breadth and they will leave in large numbers. How do you offset that if you are B6? Expand into Europe? Maybe. That won't be easy and may lose money because the Big 3 Alliances control 80% of the Atlantic market with ULCCs taking up a lot of the rest. Their other strong points are JFK, LGA, DCA, and FLL...maybe MCO. In terms of facilities/gates/slots they can't grow in any of the first 4. FLL they might be able to grow a little bit, but basically the airport is full. MCO is available, but is super-competitive, low-priced, and the site of a big NK expansion that will wreck most of the remaining opportunities. So, what's left? They couldn't make IAD work and frankly the remaining options look a lot like IAD.

So, they are not going to go bankrupt. They will probably not see much earnings growth, more likely pressure and difficulty to earn at the rate of the other airlines. To me that means the current strategy is a failure. I only know of three options: 1) merge/ally/partner with Alaska which as I said I hate mergers, 2) become a ULCC, and 3) bet the company and launch either Europe or a new U.S. hub. That's all there is unless they discover a new option nobody else thought of anywhere in the whole industry worldwide. I think if they just stick with the existing network and grow 8% a year (which will be tough given facilities constraints) they will long term have financial problems because there just isn't enough blood to get out of that turnip to support that growth over the long term. If they slow growth to 2-3% their costs will eventually eat them alive. We are already seeing that.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:06 pm

enilria wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
I would be more than happy, if B6 grew organically and they appear to have a base strategy with phasing out the 190's, the 321's, more seating and higher fees to do just that, but the perception of the folks that actually work there and others on this site that work needs to be done internally to improve in a number of areas, such as communication, OTP, logistics and more otherwise they are at risk of being bought out.

I agree with this. I think the problem is that DL will likely take away most of B6's corporate customers in BOS over time just because they can cross-leverage the rest of their network with the Fortune 500. The leak of the UA Apple corporate contract info shows just how broad a network it takes to lock down a Fortune 500 company's business. While B6 was king in BOS the corporates had to play ball with them, but give them another option with network breadth and they will leave in large numbers. How do you offset that if you are B6? Expand into Europe? Maybe. That won't be easy and may lose money because the Big 3 Alliances control 80% of the Atlantic market with ULCCs taking up a lot of the rest. Their other strong points are JFK, LGA, DCA, and FLL...maybe MCO. In terms of facilities/gates/slots they can't grow in any of the first 4. FLL they might be able to grow a little bit, but basically the airport is full. MCO is available, but is super-competitive, low-priced, and the site of a big NK expansion that will wreck most of the remaining opportunities. So, what's left? They couldn't make IAD work and frankly the remaining options look a lot like IAD.

So, they are not going to go bankrupt. They will probably not see much earnings growth, more likely pressure and difficulty to earn at the rate of the other airlines. To me that means the current strategy is a failure. I only know of three options: 1) merge/ally/partner with Alaska which as I said I hate mergers, 2) become a ULCC, and 3) bet the company and launch either Europe or a new U.S. hub. That's all there is unless they discover a new option nobody else thought of anywhere in the whole industry worldwide. I think if they just stick with the existing network and grow 8% a year (which will be tough given facilities constraints) they will long term have financial problems because there just isn't enough blood to get out of that turnip to support that growth over the long term. If they slow growth to 2-3% their costs will eventually eat them alive. We are already seeing that.


Makes a lot of sense and outside of the DL piece. Wall Street is pressuring them to improve margins and control growth as a result, so they become stuck between a rock and a hard place. Tough spot, hence why doing nothing isn't an option.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
flyby519
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:18 am

enilria wrote:

So, they are not going to go bankrupt. They will probably not see much earnings growth, more likely pressure and difficulty to earn at the rate of the other airlines. To me that means the current strategy is a failure. I only know of three options: 1) merge/ally/partner with Alaska which as I said I hate mergers, 2) become a ULCC, and 3) bet the company and launch either Europe or a new U.S. hub. That's all there is unless they discover a new option nobody else thought of anywhere in the whole industry worldwide. I think if they just stick with the existing network and grow 8% a year (which will be tough given facilities constraints) they will long term have financial problems because there just isn't enough blood to get out of that turnip to support that growth over the long term. If they slow growth to 2-3% their costs will eventually eat them alive. We are already seeing that.


I really think option #2 (transition to ULCC) isn't given enough attention. With Ben Baldanza on the board there could be a realistic chance of this happening. It is also a recession proof business model and I think legacies are only willing to go so far in order to fight ULCCs.
 
MR27122
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:36 am

flyby519 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:

Nobody said anything about WN, for all you know it could be a B6/AS merger, aka the only option left to create a nationwide carrier that doesn't involve WN or ULCC's. Any other option is delusional.


The Big IF JetBlue puts it's self up for sale. Everyone wondering and speculating who will be the buyer?
WN will not let anyone else buy B6. Just like AS couldn't let B6 buy VX. WN has to much to lose in the northeast and FL to let AS or anyone else get that much bigger.
I wouldn't be surprised if Warren Buffet was the Buyer of JetBlue. His investment group has the capital to ignore Wall Street demands and revamp JetBlue. Everyone thinks he would buy WN but this could be smoke and mirrors so that they can privately swoop in and get JetBlue for an amazing price point.
Warren Buffet would most likely inject new capital to accelerate A220 deliveries to retire the E190 quickly and also shead the older A320. This would make JetBlue a leaner more profitable airline.

Flyguy


Wow! This is far fetched, to put it nicely. Buffet buying JB?! C’mon man...


Buffet would buy a buggy-whip company that evolved into Typewriter manufacturing before he considered an airline purchase. As he famously stated (paraphrasing) "The only way to make a fortune in the airline industry is to start with a HUGE fortune".
 
MIflyer12
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:42 am

MR27122 wrote:
Buffet would buy a buggy-whip company that evolved into Typewriter manufacturing before he considered an airline purchase. As he famously stated (paraphrasing) "The only way to make a fortune in the airline industry is to start with a HUGE fortune".


You are 25 years out of date. Buffet has reconsidered.

Buffett: I wouldn't rule out buying an entire airline Buffett: I wouldn't rule out buying an entire airline
8:57 AM ET Mon, 26 Feb 2018 | 04:18
Warren Buffett's newfound optimism for the airline industry appears to have grown.

"I wouldn't rule out owning an entire airline," the billionaire investor and Berkshire Hathaway CEO told CNBC.

In an annual letter published on Saturday, Buffett said the company is searching for deals but is struggling to find one for a good price. Airline stocks are trading at lower multiples than the S&P 500.

Buffett surprised investors in 2016 after Berkshire revealed it took stakes in the largest U.S. airlines. Buffett's stakes in American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, United Continental Holdings and Southwest Airlines were worth close to $10 billion based on Friday's closing prices and Berkshire's recently disclosed investments.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/buffett ... rline.html
 
MR27122
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:24 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
MR27122 wrote:
Buffet would buy a buggy-whip company that evolved into Typewriter manufacturing before he considered an airline purchase. As he famously stated (paraphrasing) "The only way to make a fortune in the airline industry is to start with a HUGE fortune".


You are 25 years out of date. Buffet has reconsidered.

Buffett: I wouldn't rule out buying an entire airline Buffett: I wouldn't rule out buying an entire airline
8:57 AM ET Mon, 26 Feb 2018 | 04:18
Warren Buffett's newfound optimism for the airline industry appears to have grown.

"[i]I wouldn't rule out owning an entire airline," the billionaire investor and Berkshire Hathaway CEO told CNBC.

In an annual letter published on Saturday, Buffett said the company is searching for deals but is struggling to find one for a good price. Airline stocks are trading at lower multiples than the S&P 500.

Buffett surprised investors in 2016 after Berkshire revealed it took stakes in the largest U.S. airlines. Buffett's stakes in American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, United Continental Holdings and Southwest Airlines were worth close to $10 billion based on Friday's closing prices and Berkshire's recently disclosed investments.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/buffett ... rline.html


But, JetBlue?
"So what about millennial-favorite JetBlue ? Why no love from Buffett there? It’s hard to know for sure, but JetBlue plays in a different arena than the big airlines.

JetBlue has a market value of just $7 billion, versus $36 billion for Delta, the largest. Buffett’s other airline picks range in value from $20 to $30 billion.

Meanwhile, JetBlue’s route map is small versus the others, and it carries few fewer passengers. Last year, JetBlue had 35 million passengers to 93 destinations in the U.S., the Caribbean and Latin America. Compare that with 201 million passengers for American, which goes to 350 destinations.

Still, don’t forget JetBlue’s willingness to think outside the box. The stock is up 400% over the last five years.

Big Picture: Warren Buffett has changed his tune about airlines. He recently bought shares in four big carriers, though he left out JetBlue, a more regional player.[/i]"

Barrron's Nov 2016
https://www.barrons.com/articles/why-wa ... 1479243085

....ohhh & B6's Market Cap is down $1.8 Billion (-20%) since the Barron's article when It was "just" $7 Billion. The "cyclical" appears to be upon the horizon, wish to wager if Buffet is poised to increase his airline holdings in 2019?
 
stlgph
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:51 pm

VS4ever wrote:
stlgph wrote:
God I just love this thread.

Every person who obsesses with coming on here savoring anything JetBlue comes on here saying the only way to make it better is for them to merge with everyone else.

If this airline was good as you all say it is, they don't need to merge forcing everyone to fly them because there's no other options.

Brilliant logic.

Please, now continue.


For goodness sake, change the freaking record, we get it, you've told us a bunch of times, no merger for B6 in your eyes.. got ya, how about adding something constructive to the conversation and figuring out what a future strategy might actually look like if it's not a merger, and B6 just being B6 ain't it, that tells us nothing... all people are doing are considering available options in the market place. Most people on here are NOT in favor of B6 merging, but you conveniently miss that out in your rant posts.

I will say it again in bold. I DO NOT WANT B6 to MERGE with ANYONE, my comments have been hypothesizing that if however that were to be the case and B6 WERE to merge, how would it work to maximize the options available to them with becoming an arm of one of the big 4 or gone completely, but you ignore that.

I would be more than happy, if B6 grew organically and they appear to have a base strategy with phasing out the 190's, the 321's, more seating and higher fees to do just that, but the perception of the folks that actually work there and others on this site that work needs to be done internally to improve in a number of areas, such as communication, OTP, logistics and more otherwise they are at risk of being bought out. So let's hear your answers to that, rather than just puking over everyone else's commentary on future possibilities, because I need to go to pandora and stream a different track to tune it out.



You're all so obsessed with mergers ....even with *airlines that don't exist yet* ... is there a point here? Many of you just post away millions of light years away from reality.

Add something constructive to the conversation? I have. Let JetBlue be JetBlue. Fix the outstanding debt and drop the extra b.s. that's gotten them head over heels and get back to its original core business model.

You want something more?

Fine, here we go. I'll post something *JUST FOR YOU* but since it doesn't involve a merger it'll be entirely lost and won't matter anyway.

JetBlue needs to get back to writing its story. When the carrier was first launched - it was fun, unique, cool, sexy. They flew people to Orlando and the employees spent their free time building houses for the poor. The employees and ceo were in the press often, it was a media darling, people in the midwest even knew who they were and in St Louis, a number of former TWA flight attendants were jumping on board choosing to commute from STL to JFK for work because the airline was fun, different and appealing.

Somewhere along the way, the story went away. Neeleman was a press darling. The board ousted him, brought in Barger who did media at first, then backed away from it and then he went out and Hayes came in. Where's Hayes been? Has anyone seen him? Outside of a fabricated line in a press release - dude, where's my CEO?

In the middle of all this - the story stopped being told. They were no longer the media darling, even in their own backyard. JetBlue's comm team, under the leadership of Jenny Dervin, sat there stagnant trying to kiss Hayes' ass, as she had identified him as the next CEO of the company, rather than trying to make JetBlue fun and exciting and appealing. Her dirty work on his behalf in regards to comms regarding the pilots union led to her own ouster. While she was busy doing this, Gail Grimmett, on the other hand, over at Delta, was wiping JetBlue's ass clean with any and every media opportunity, filling in the blanks and the missed opportunities that the hometown airline should be doing since every. major. media. outlet sits across the street from them.

So, no, JetBlue doesn't need mergers with airlines that don't exist. Or mergers with anyone else.

They need a number of new top people in the top executive roles. They need a fresh leader for the company and a fresh face. If that's the same person, fantastic. If not, get a strong leader and then get someone in there who can be a part of the team and the company and be the face of the company.

Wipe the JetBlue comms team clean. Get rid of anyone who was there during the Dervin regime and bring in new people to replace anyone else who has come in since then because they haven't done a damn thing. Sorry kids, layoffs suck, but they just need to go and find other pastures. They have the advantage of sitting in New York City. Take advantage of it.

Get back to writing those stories. Get back to getting people to Orlando on time and get back to building those houses. Turn your brand into something fun and something that resonates with people and create a face and a focal point. Look at Chik-Fil-A, In & Out Burger and Shake Shack. These are some of the top, best well known consumer brands in the U.S. Look at their size compared to their competitors. Did they have to merge their way to success or the top? Nope, they created a story that stuck with the people and they never stopped writing it.

But speaking of writing, you all better get back to writing about mergers with airlines that don't exist.

Cheers.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:25 pm

flyby519 wrote:
enilria wrote:

So, they are not going to go bankrupt. They will probably not see much earnings growth, more likely pressure and difficulty to earn at the rate of the other airlines. To me that means the current strategy is a failure. I only know of three options: 1) merge/ally/partner with Alaska which as I said I hate mergers, 2) become a ULCC, and 3) bet the company and launch either Europe or a new U.S. hub. That's all there is unless they discover a new option nobody else thought of anywhere in the whole industry worldwide. I think if they just stick with the existing network and grow 8% a year (which will be tough given facilities constraints) they will long term have financial problems because there just isn't enough blood to get out of that turnip to support that growth over the long term. If they slow growth to 2-3% their costs will eventually eat them alive. We are already seeing that.


I really think option #2 (transition to ULCC) isn't given enough attention. With Ben Baldanza on the board there could be a realistic chance of this happening. It is also a recession proof business model and I think legacies are only willing to go so far in order to fight ULCCs.

I agree. Their best move in terms of earnings and capacity growth is to become a ULCC, possibly with a premium cabin/Mint, kind of like what Air Tran did. They would then be the only ULCC with hard assets at several prime airports. The question is how well mixing a ULCC in the back with a premium product in the front would work. Arguably legacy Basic Economy is a de facto ULCC product, so perhaps it is already a working strategy.

The problem with going that way, is that it is the exact opposite of where they have been going for at least 10 years. I'm not sure I see anybody there doing anything that dramatic. Step 1 of that strategy would be to move the HQ to Orlando.
 
flyby519
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:46 pm

enilria wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
enilria wrote:

So, they are not going to go bankrupt. They will probably not see much earnings growth, more likely pressure and difficulty to earn at the rate of the other airlines. To me that means the current strategy is a failure. I only know of three options: 1) merge/ally/partner with Alaska which as I said I hate mergers, 2) become a ULCC, and 3) bet the company and launch either Europe or a new U.S. hub. That's all there is unless they discover a new option nobody else thought of anywhere in the whole industry worldwide. I think if they just stick with the existing network and grow 8% a year (which will be tough given facilities constraints) they will long term have financial problems because there just isn't enough blood to get out of that turnip to support that growth over the long term. If they slow growth to 2-3% their costs will eventually eat them alive. We are already seeing that.


I really think option #2 (transition to ULCC) isn't given enough attention. With Ben Baldanza on the board there could be a realistic chance of this happening. It is also a recession proof business model and I think legacies are only willing to go so far in order to fight ULCCs.

I agree. Their best move in terms of earnings and capacity growth is to become a ULCC, possibly with a premium cabin/Mint, kind of like what Air Tran did. They would then be the only ULCC with hard assets at several prime airports. The question is how well mixing a ULCC in the back with a premium product in the front would work. Arguably legacy Basic Economy is a de facto ULCC product, so perhaps it is already a working strategy.

The problem with going that way, is that it is the exact opposite of where they have been going for at least 10 years. I'm not sure I see anybody there doing anything that dramatic. Step 1 of that strategy would be to move the HQ to Orlando.


The other board member recently added, Sarah Robb O’Hagan, would be excellent at steering B6 in a new direction and rebranding/marketing a huge shift becoming more ULCC-like.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:53 am

The idea of B6 becoming a ULCC doesn't sound like a good one to me; they'd only be trashing most of their current yields, and there's no guarantee they'd attract enough incremental passengers on higher-density aircraft to warrant the drop in RASM. Currently, they price at around the same level as or a bit lower than WN, who has historically battled lower yields and faced pressure from Wall Street to increase RASM. WN has since addressed this issue, and it shows in their results. If B6 expanded out of NYC and BOS to certain cities in Europe and South America using widebodies, they could then become a network carrier more fully and capture some of the premium business that is already familiar with their Mint product on transcons. They might also get some more business up front by adding Mint to more destinations in the Caribbean. If they can attract premium business and thus more business travelers, they will attract the crowd that is willing to pay a lot more at the last minute to fly. That's the crowd they want, not the crowd that gets in fights when a bunch of flights cancel out. This is where the 8% growth without adding capacity would come in.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:56 am

usdcaguy wrote:
The idea of B6 becoming a ULCC doesn't sound like a good one to me; they'd only be trashing most of their current yields, and there's no guarantee they'd attract enough incremental passengers on higher-density aircraft to warrant the drop in RASM. Currently, they price at around the same level as or a bit lower than WN, who has historically battled lower yields and faced pressure from Wall Street to increase RASM. WN has since addressed this issue, and it shows in their results. If B6 expanded out of NYC and BOS to certain cities in Europe and South America using widebodies, they could then become a network carrier more fully and capture some of the premium business that is already familiar with their Mint product on transcons. They might also get some more business up front by adding Mint to more destinations in the Caribbean. If they can attract premium business and thus more business travelers, they will attract the crowd that is willing to pay a lot more at the last minute to fly. That's the crowd they want, not the crowd that gets in fights when a bunch of flights cancel out. This is where the 8% growth without adding capacity would come in.


The question is, will all of that expansion, diversification, and investment really make them more attractive to corporate customers up against (I.e.) Delta, or will it risk over-leveraging them without truly making a higher gross margin?

I don’t know the answer but to me they have a lot to offer but up against Delta they will have a battle to fight.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:26 am

stlgph wrote:
You're all so obsessed with mergers ....even with *airlines that don't exist yet* ... is there a point here? Many of you just post away millions of light years away from reality.

Add something constructive to the conversation? I have. Let JetBlue be JetBlue. Fix the outstanding debt and drop the extra b.s. that's gotten them head over heels and get back to its original core business model.

You want something more?

Fine, here we go. I'll post something *JUST FOR YOU* but since it doesn't involve a merger it'll be entirely lost and won't matter anyway.

JetBlue needs to get back to writing its story. When the carrier was first launched - it was fun, unique, cool, sexy. They flew people to Orlando and the employees spent their free time building houses for the poor. The employees and ceo were in the press often, it was a media darling, people in the midwest even knew who they were and in St Louis, a number of former TWA flight attendants were jumping on board choosing to commute from STL to JFK for work because the airline was fun, different and appealing.

Somewhere along the way, the story went away. Neeleman was a press darling. The board ousted him, brought in Barger who did media at first, then backed away from it and then he went out and Hayes came in. Where's Hayes been? Has anyone seen him? Outside of a fabricated line in a press release - dude, where's my CEO?

In the middle of all this - the story stopped being told. They were no longer the media darling, even in their own backyard. JetBlue's comm team, under the leadership of Jenny Dervin, sat there stagnant trying to kiss Hayes' ass, as she had identified him as the next CEO of the company, rather than trying to make JetBlue fun and exciting and appealing. Her dirty work on his behalf in regards to comms regarding the pilots union led to her own ouster. While she was busy doing this, Gail Grimmett, on the other hand, over at Delta, was wiping JetBlue's ass clean with any and every media opportunity, filling in the blanks and the missed opportunities that the hometown airline should be doing since every. major. media. outlet sits across the street from them.

So, no, JetBlue doesn't need mergers with airlines that don't exist. Or mergers with anyone else.

They need a number of new top people in the top executive roles. They need a fresh leader for the company and a fresh face. If that's the same person, fantastic. If not, get a strong leader and then get someone in there who can be a part of the team and the company and be the face of the company.

Wipe the JetBlue comms team clean. Get rid of anyone who was there during the Dervin regime and bring in new people to replace anyone else who has come in since then because they haven't done a damn thing. Sorry kids, layoffs suck, but they just need to go and find other pastures. They have the advantage of sitting in New York City. Take advantage of it.

Get back to writing those stories. Get back to getting people to Orlando on time and get back to building those houses. Turn your brand into something fun and something that resonates with people and create a face and a focal point. Look at Chik-Fil-A, In & Out Burger and Shake Shack. These are some of the top, best well known consumer brands in the U.S. Look at their size compared to their competitors. Did they have to merge their way to success or the top? Nope, they created a story that stuck with the people and they never stopped writing it.

But speaking of writing, you all better get back to writing about mergers with airlines that don't exist.

Cheers.


That was a great piece, read like a suspense novel. You should consider being a motivational speaker.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:57 am

enilria wrote:
When NW added all of Reno Air's routes it was also technically increased competition, but there are limits.


Last I checked, it was AA that bought QQ...
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:59 am

EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
When NW added all of Reno Air's routes it was also technically increased competition, but there are limits.


Last I checked, it was AA that bought QQ...


He means when QQ added RNOMSP and NW went nuclear.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:11 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
The idea of B6 becoming a ULCC doesn't sound like a good one to me; they'd only be trashing most of their current yields, and there's no guarantee they'd attract enough incremental passengers on higher-density aircraft to warrant the drop in RASM.

Obviously ULCC stands for "Ultra Low COST Carrier". The mission would be to lower costs significantly, more than revenue declines.
EA CO AS wrote:
Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?
by EA CO AS » 14 Jan 2019 22:57

enilria wrote:
When NW added all of Reno Air's routes it was also technically increased competition, but there are limits.

Last I checked, it was AA that bought QQ...

?
I would have thought you would have known about such a large moment in deregulation history. I guess not. Thanks for the snarky unresearched reply, though.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/17/busi ... -cuts.html
It was seminal because it is just about the only case I am aware of where the government enforced rules against anti-competitive behavior in the airline business.

For example, a previous airline predation investigation by the Antitrust Division concerned Northwest Airlines’s response to Reno Air’s entry into the Reno-Minneapolis city-pair in 1993. Not only did Northwest institute service of its own on this route, which it had previously abandoned; it also opened a new minihub in Reno that overlaid much of Reno Air’s own operation. Our investigation was well under way when the matter was resolved because, with the intervention of the Department of Transportation, Northwest decided to abandon its overlay of Reno Air’s hub operation.
https://www.justice.gov/archive/atr/pub ... y/2294.pdf
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:11 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
When NW added all of Reno Air's routes it was also technically increased competition, but there are limits.


Last I checked, it was AA that bought QQ...


He means when QQ added RNOMSP and NW went nuclear.

Exactly! :)
 
hiflyeras
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:06 pm

With so many similarities to AS, I think B6 needs to follow their recent recipe for success. They need to take their A220's and start mid-con service from BOS, JFK and FLL...it's been very successful with AS and their E175's and provides great feed to their other west coast cities and even Hawaii. B6 could easily replicate from the right coast it but they seem to have no interest as they've said their plan is to fly them north-south. Yawn.... Go bigger or go home.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:21 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I don’t know the answer but to me they have a lot to offer but up against Delta they will have a battle to fight.


Yes, I agree. NYC is a very competitive market, but B6 knew this from the start. There are still enough folks out there that are loyal to B6 in spite of their problems that they still have a shot at winning business back from DL in markets where they've lost share. They just need to up their game in terms of reliability and offer a more premium experience that people are willing to pay for.
 
trueblew
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:20 am

It seems there is a lot of discontent and resentment among the ranks after a profit sharing payout of 0.002 was announced, at a time when counterparts at other airlines are receiving FAR larger bonuses.

Like Maduro's iron grip on Venezuela, B6 management seems to be losing their authoritarian-like hold on their employees. Many are now seeing the emperor has no clothes.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:59 am

trueblew wrote:
It seems there is a lot of discontent and resentment among the ranks after a profit sharing payout of 0.002 was announced, at a time when counterparts at other airlines are receiving FAR larger bonuses.

Like Maduro's iron grip on Venezuela, B6 management seems to be losing their authoritarian-like hold on their employees. Many are now seeing the emperor has no clothes.


Yeah, but unlike regime change with Maduro, there's no one to replace the inept management at B6. At least in Venezuela they have Guido to replace Maduro, B6 doesn't even have that.
 
questions
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:54 am

nine4nine wrote:
Agreed. AS has butchered the VX product which actually made a nice relaxed flying experience. They’ve dumped or cut back substantially many of the VX routes and incorporated the boring lackluster cabin offerings.

IF a marriage between AS and B6 were to ever transpire let’s hope the B6 name and service would be the overpowering factors. Nobody thinks Alaska when flying east-west or Caribbean and vice versa.


I don’t understand why people get so wet when talking about AS. I’ve never experienced anything special when flying AS. Decent; not bad, not great. Their last innovation was mashed potatoes and they’re long gone!
 
smflyer
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:19 am

How about an AS/HA merge and then B6/F9 merge, and then those two entities merge. This would create a true network on a legacy scale. Slowly introduce European service organically out of BOS using the 321LR and then an Asian service out of SEA using the HA widebodies.
 
trueblew
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:23 am

‘Don't be fooled’: JetBlue president warned workers against joining a union

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ning-union

"...a union would never be able to give you a list of accomplishments like this,” Geraghty wrote in the email seen by the Guardian.

The accomplishments cited in the email include a holiday party, adding more nail polish colors to the uniform policy, an app launch, and new bag scanners. “So if anyone asks you to sign a card, I’m asking you to decline."


Out of touch doesn't even begin to describe the clowns running JetBlue.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:16 am

Something is wrong when even the vulnerable groups that are easy to outsource start to organize.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:22 am

Ask the B6 “president” about Profit Sharing

She has a big set to ask workers not to unionize after giving them $100 of $750 million in profits
 
Mboyle1988
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:51 am

I flew B6 last night for the first time since 2011. Boy how things have changed. All the flight attendants appeared to hate their jobs and the planes were shoddy as heck. Firing Neelman might be the dumbest move a corporate board has made this century.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:23 am

Flew out of Long Beach the other day...flight attendant openly said over the intercom TWICE (jokingly but still) that any Patriots fans wouldn't get drinks or snacks. Normally I'd find that funny and in good jest, but when one of your largest focus cities is Boston, it's probably best to keep your yammer shut
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
strfyr51
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:09 am

seabosdca wrote:
Why would AS want to merge with B6 and inherit all the issues you are describing? AS is still digesting the VX merger and has plenty of opportunities for organic growth on the West Coast. The most attractive merger partner for AS would be HA, not B6.

I think B6's future plans should be to the East Coast as AS is to the West Coast. Keep going after NYC business, beef up Florida, look for more Eastern focus cities, and fly to national destinations with the idea of cementing the East Coast customer base further in place. In short, try to rattle the cages of AA and DL in those markets the way AS is trying to do to WN in California.

Have you ever considered Hawaiian as a partner? Were B6 .nd HA to merge? It would do Both of them good. The problem would be for them would be to build a western and a mid-continent Hub (and LGB is NOT it!) I would propose? PDX,OAK, SJC west, SLC,DEN and MSP Mid. ORD MEM MSY,IAH central, And JFK BOS and FLL east,(all these are and/or Except for JFK.) The combined carrier could then roam Asia to Europe and through time establish a worldwide presence,..
The A330's could be based on the Mainland and establish Europe where Technical help would be abundant, for such a flight. ) Hubs At JFK, Mid, west, and HNL. with the Mid and West hubs to start as focus cities until the plan establishes itself. ( there could be other cities that I didn't mention as I did think it was prudent to Not go into hubs with dominant carriers who might get irritated. ) Nobody needs a price war, The USA is big enough for a good meal for everybody.
 
greendot
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:39 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Ask the B6 “president” about Profit Sharing

She has a big set to ask workers not to unionize after giving them $100 of $750 million in profits


The problem is Johanna Gerrity. She's a lawyer and not even a good one. She's never really done anything innovative which is why the only thing she can do is trim down maintenance budgets and loot employee's profit sharing. She only knows how to subtract. She's basically the Marissa Mayer of Yahoo fame. She needs to be replaced with someone like Neeleman and someone who is competent and intelligent. She doesn't appear to know anything about the industry nor has the aptitude to self-learn.

After her, middle management needs to go. They need to hire smart people, not just people who can't get jobs anywhere else. As a customer, I get to see the best and worst of JB. It's extremely personality driven as far as what face of JB you get. Typically the good experiences are only because of pilots and FAs who go out of their way to compensate for management imposed disasters such as no gate space, late incoming flights, and lots of deferred maintenance items. When employees stop going way above and beyond, it seems their operation falls apart. It seems the operation requires extraordinary effort on behalf of employees that is not found at larger airlines. For example, Delta crew members do not clean airplanes but Johanna Gerrity has even taken to using the FAA to coerce free-aircraft cleaning from employees. That shows the toxic environment she has created against employees.

Another thing is that airplanes are absolutely filthy. They need to be hard scrubbed with chlorine and hard brushes for several hours. There is gunk on seats and panels from years of accumulation. Carpets are urinated on by animals and never replaced. It's just disgusting. This is a choice of upper management to artificially make them look good. JB is being destroyed by its own management.
 
greendot
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:49 am

flyby519 wrote:
greendot wrote:
You can try to minimize B6's failures by comparing it to other failures but minimizing the problem as an industry norm is not helpful. Instead, maybe employees should demand the board and shareholders to take action to dump the current managers and replace them with innovators, thinkers, intellectuals, disruptors, deal-makers, and people who truly care about employees and customers.


Well said.

The problem is the innovators, thinkers, intellectuals, disruptors, etc dont want to get involved with a low margin/highly regulated industry like transportation when they can have a free-for-all in the tech industry.


I think most of the problem is that these kind of companies do not want to hire truly smart people to fill management roles. They want to hire useless MBA types or other rejects from corporate america. They are opposed to even consider hiring an Elon Moske or some middle aged prodigy. They seem to hire based on corrupt practices such as promoting from within based on things like sexual orientation rather than results or qualifications. There's plenty of smart people out there who would kill to have a management job at JB or any airline even for mediocre pay because it gives them a chance to be in charge. The problem is how JB and other airlines hire people for those roles. They are only hiring establishment executives that basically only know MBA level knowledge that is only relevant to the simplest of corporations. Maybe they need to hire people with great vision and lots of intersecting qualifications such as being a pilot and being an IT saavy person. That way, they get the skillset to know the core business as well as having the knowledge necessary to innovate the business into new directions.
 
StinkyPinky
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:11 pm

trueblew wrote:
‘Don't be fooled’: JetBlue president warned workers against joining a union

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ning-union

"...a union would never be able to give you a list of accomplishments like this,” Geraghty wrote in the email seen by the Guardian.

The accomplishments cited in the email include a holiday party, adding more nail polish colors to the uniform policy, an app launch, and new bag scanners. “So if anyone asks you to sign a card, I’m asking you to decline."


Out of touch doesn't even begin to describe the clowns running JetBlue.


Thats how out of touch they are. When the flight attendants were organizing, they sent out emails saying they didnt need a union to speak for them when they had the Caring Value and leadership that speaks on their behalf. That the monthly union dues could better be spent on other things SUCH AS: a monthly massage, or NetFlix and weekly manicure. That's is what they think is important to their employees. NOT fair wages, work rules, or respect. But nail colors, holiday parties, massages, and Netflix.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:47 pm

lol I forgot about that part, yeah they are using the same playbook with the gate agents now. $30 a month on union dues are better spent on a manicure, not a legal union contract that protects their jobs and advocates for fair compensation and profit sharing.

wozers
 
Flaps
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:03 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:

Nobody said anything about WN, for all you know it could be a B6/AS merger, aka the only option left to create a nationwide carrier that doesn't involve WN or ULCC's. Any other option is delusional.

Ummm, plenty of people have mentioned WN in this very thread. In fact, the post you responded to was about WN having a stranglehold with a hypothetical merger with B6. Nevertheless, the problem with a B6/AS merger is that it doesn’t create a nationwide carrier. The carrier would still have a giant hole in the middle of the country.


Yeah but that's the thing. If you want there to be a hole anywhere, you want it to be in the middle, because that's the easiest to fill. The coasts are hypercompetitive, so once you have both sides locked down (ie. B6/AS) you can fill in the gaps and build up the middle with any one of a dozen cities in middle America. The problem with a B6/AS merger is that it's way to obvious not to consider. I mean B6 is the east coast airline, AS the west coast airline. I can 100% guarantee both B6 and AS have thought about acquiring each other. The real question is who's gonna bite first: An AS that just bought VX or a weak B6. Alternatively, you could even do a three way merger and solve the middle hub problem by adding SY to the fold and doing B6/SY/AS. But that depends more on SY than vice-versa.


That's been tried before. Remember US/PS? It was a disaster.
 
greendot
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:37 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
lol I forgot about that part, yeah they are using the same playbook with the gate agents now. $30 a month on union dues are better spent on a manicure, not a legal union contract that protects their jobs and advocates for fair compensation and profit sharing.

wozers


Everyone forgets that a corporation has the option to simply appease the employees, even if partly. Rather than spend millions in a self-fulfilling prophecy where the employees hate the employer because of their anti-union stance, why not just embrace the union, give into its collective demands, and carry on with the core business? A corporation *could* do that. Instead, they want to fight because in their limited MBA minds, all they know is that the cost of fighting employees is *probably* cheaper and it will make them look better at shareholder meetings and in the eyes of the board of directors. Mediocre solutions by mediocre people.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:50 pm

greendot wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
lol I forgot about that part, yeah they are using the same playbook with the gate agents now. $30 a month on union dues are better spent on a manicure, not a legal union contract that protects their jobs and advocates for fair compensation and profit sharing.

wozers


Everyone forgets that a corporation has the option to simply appease the employees, even if partly. Rather than spend millions in a self-fulfilling prophecy where the employees hate the employer because of their anti-union stance, why not just embrace the union, give into its collective demands, and carry on with the core business? A corporation *could* do that. Instead, they want to fight because in their limited MBA minds, all they know is that the cost of fighting employees is *probably* cheaper and it will make them look better at shareholder meetings and in the eyes of the board of directors. Mediocre solutions by mediocre people.



This is exactly the path the legendary Herb Kelleher took with Southwest. He accepted and worked with the Union. He put employees first and they now have the highest pay and best work rules out of any U.S. airline. They are also wildly profitable and rank #1 in customer service.

It is such a shame and tragedy that more do not follow his example. Too many egos that are hell bent on "winning" and "power".
 
TheLunchbox
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:20 pm

JetBlue needs to be saved from crewmembers that are never happy and feed off of union exaggeration and they themselves rile-up other crewmembers to create more of a divide. No airline is ran perfectly but no union is perfect either nor has all the answers. They do plenty right but they also have shortcomings which we can all see. i dare you all to come up with one positive thing each for once. If you can't then I just can't take any of you serious. With regards to the direction of the company, I think we're quick to forget the things they're working on: Europe - but they cant make that happen until slots are secured which is the hold-up... be patient, The redevelopment of JFK terminals , A220's which will open up new opportunities, etc. And besides, I don't think they owe it to everyone to lay out their business plan to their competitors. They like to keep it under wraps and part of me is okay with that. There's too many fanboys on forums that look for leaks of information then it spreads like wildfire.
 
flyby519
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:40 pm

I have no problem with keeping things under wraps, but when JB has been making very public declarations about considering Europe for YEARS it begins to get old. JB should have been in europe years ago. Poop or get off the pot.
 
MKIAZ
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:53 pm

flyby519 wrote:
I have no problem with keeping things under wraps, but when JB has been making very public declarations about considering Europe for YEARS it begins to get old. JB should have been in europe years ago. Poop or get off the pot.


I think they are a victim of the 321NEO NEO-LR NEOXLR progression.

They clearly want to wait for the best available plane before jumping in, and the XLR appears to be it. Between that and ETOPS they still have awhile before they can launch flights. And letting competitors know they will be starting flights in say 18 months isn't going to do them any good.

What they really need is more gates at bos/jfk (which they are working on) and then a good sized order of NEOXLR's. They should be able to start 10+ European destinations with mint and good frequency (They could easily run 3-4x/day to LON)

Then they can use feed to these Europe flights to build out more domestic flights. LOTS of marginal flights to medium cities such as RNO/PHX/SLC/AUS/PDX and even midwest cities start to make a ton more sense when they can be timed to connect to a bank of European departures. And for the west coast mint destinations being able to offer one-stop entirely lie flat to a bunch of European destinations is a big deal.

They can also use the XLR to deep south america from FLL, where they will have a huge cost advantage over AA, (leaving a 777 on the ground for 12 hours is expensive!). Not to mention more feed onto domestic flights out of FLL. I suppose they could do the same thing with MCO.

I would also expect them to continue taking market share on the big transcon markets of BOS/JFK/FLL to SFO/LAX. So they will need more mint AC and more gates (primarily at LAX).

WN has trashed yields in CA. I think AS is in a really tough position. B6 is killing them on transcon, and WN is killing them on the west coast. I really don't see why B6 needs a west coast hub right now to get into a 3 way slugfest with WN/AS. LGB is no good. The high value customers are at LAX, SNA or maybe BUR. Just look at the map of LA and where the money is.
 
flyby519
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:22 am

MKIAZ wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
I have no problem with keeping things under wraps, but when JB has been making very public declarations about considering Europe for YEARS it begins to get old. JB should have been in europe years ago. Poop or get off the pot.


I think they are a victim of the 321NEO NEO-LR NEOXLR progression.

They clearly want to wait for the best available plane before jumping in, and the XLR appears to be it. Between that and ETOPS they still have awhile before they can launch flights. And letting competitors know they will be starting flights in say 18 months isn't going to do them any good.

What they really need is more gates at bos/jfk (which they are working on) and then a good sized order of NEOXLR's. They should be able to start 10+ European destinations with mint and good frequency (They could easily run 3-4x/day to LON)

Then they can use feed to these Europe flights to build out more domestic flights. LOTS of marginal flights to medium cities such as RNO/PHX/SLC/AUS/PDX and even midwest cities start to make a ton more sense when they can be timed to connect to a bank of European departures. And for the west coast mint destinations being able to offer one-stop entirely lie flat to a bunch of European destinations is a big deal.

They can also use the XLR to deep south america from FLL, where they will have a huge cost advantage over AA, (leaving a 777 on the ground for 12 hours is expensive!). Not to mention more feed onto domestic flights out of FLL. I suppose they could do the same thing with MCO.

I would also expect them to continue taking market share on the big transcon markets of BOS/JFK/FLL to SFO/LAX. So they will need more mint AC and more gates (primarily at LAX).

WN has trashed yields in CA. I think AS is in a really tough position. B6 is killing them on transcon, and WN is killing them on the west coast. I really don't see why B6 needs a west coast hub right now to get into a 3 way slugfest with WN/AS. LGB is no good. The high value customers are at LAX, SNA or maybe BUR. Just look at the map of LA and where the money is.


Yea when will the XLR be flying? 2022? There will always be a next better option to wait for, the timing will never be absolutely perfect. JetBlue suffers from analysis-to-paralysis. We should have started when the B787 first entered into service.
 
greendot
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:08 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:54 am

TheLunchbox wrote:
JetBlue needs to be saved from crewmembers that are never happy and feed off of union exaggeration and they themselves rile-up other crewmembers to create more of a divide. No airline is ran perfectly but no union is perfect either nor has all the answers. They do plenty right but they also have shortcomings which we can all see. i dare you all to come up with one positive thing each for once. If you can't then I just can't take any of you serious. With regards to the direction of the company, I think we're quick to forget the things they're working on: Europe - but they cant make that happen until slots are secured which is the hold-up... be patient, The redevelopment of JFK terminals , A220's which will open up new opportunities, etc. And besides, I don't think they owe it to everyone to lay out their business plan to their competitors. They like to keep it under wraps and part of me is okay with that. There's too many fanboys on forums that look for leaks of information then it spreads like wildfire.


I think you would be surprised at how little the union does. People mostly have disdain for JB management all on their own. It was crewmembers that brought the union to JB, not the other way around. I'm sure they can be happy all day, and even give you a thousand reasons why everything is so good, but that doesn't solve problems. Coming up with positive points is simply not productive. Management gives themselves plenty of gold stars, why do they need to hear it from employees?

It's not anything to do with their Europe plans. It's the fact that their aircraft are filthy, maintenance is pushed to the limit, pay is still subpar, management still blackmails people into working for free, medical benefits are laughable, senior management can't manage middle managers, and of course, employees got a laughable profit sharing while management made a fortune. Sorry, but management has done this all to themselves. Ask people who work there sometime and I don't mean people who work in offices. It's pretty clear that management wages legal battles against employees for ridiculous things. Here's a sample: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/jetb ... ndant.html

They can hide behind "culture" and such but it appears to be all fake simulated hospitality for the gullible.
 
S0Y
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:56 am

CobaltScar wrote:


This is exactly the path the legendary Herb Kelleher took with Southwest. He accepted and worked with the Union. He put employees first and they now have the highest pay and best work rules out of any U.S. airline. They are also wildly profitable and rank #1 in customer service.

It is such a shame and tragedy that more do not follow his example. Too many egos that are hell bent on "winning" and "power".



Its mental that this is such a radical way to run a business
 
flyby519
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:10 pm

HND slot allocations are coming up for 12 slots. Again, B6 won’t take part but 3-4 years from now they will complain about lack of access for HND. :banghead:
 
pdxtraveller
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:50 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:11 pm

greendot wrote:

The problem is Johanna Gerrity. She's a lawyer and not even a good one. She's never really done anything innovative which is why the only thing she can do is trim down maintenance budgets and loot employee's profit sharing. She only knows how to subtract. She's basically the Marissa Mayer of Yahoo fame. She needs to be replaced with someone like Neeleman and someone who is competent and intelligent. She doesn't appear to know anything about the industry nor has the aptitude to self-learn.

After her, middle management needs to go. They need to hire smart people, not just people who can't get jobs anywhere else.


Interesting. Out of curiosity, what led you to the conclusion that Joanna isn't a good lawyer? I was under the impression that maintenance contracts were creating CASM issues at B6, so surely getting those costs under control would be a good thing? With respect to your statement about her industry knowledge and lack of ability to self-learn, can you provide any examples? It seems surprising that she would be put in her current role if she was really that inept, although I am just a semi-frequent B6 flyer so I have no way of knowing what happens behind closed doors in New York. Same thing with middle management; are you aware of issues with their hiring practices?
 
greendot
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:08 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:11 pm

TheLunchbox wrote:
JetBlue needs to be saved from crewmembers that are never happy and feed off of union exaggeration and they themselves rile-up other crewmembers to create more of a divide. No airline is ran perfectly but no union is perfect either nor has all the answers. They do plenty right but they also have shortcomings which we can all see. i dare you all to come up with one positive thing each for once. If you can't then I just can't take any of you serious. With regards to the direction of the company, I think we're quick to forget the things they're working on: Europe - but they cant make that happen until slots are secured which is the hold-up... be patient, The redevelopment of JFK terminals , A220's which will open up new opportunities, etc. And besides, I don't think they owe it to everyone to lay out their business plan to their competitors. They like to keep it under wraps and part of me is okay with that. There's too many fanboys on forums that look for leaks of information then it spreads like wildfire.


Spinning things to a positive light does not change the highly negative tendencies of JB management. Unionization is not the key problem here... it's the fact that management has no real plan. JB has stagnated for years now. Their only real innovation was Mint and that stopped being a thing years ago since it's just glorified business class at a lower cost. They can have "free" Wifi and TV all day long but does it matter if it works 50% of the time? Besides, nothing is ever free... your ticket costs pay for all of that. I can't tell you how many times my flight has been delayed because of maintenance issues that, under Johanna's regime, keeps increasing. It seems like aircraft are perpetually late because all their maintenance is delayed, done only after the issue becomes a problem, and at the bare minimum regulatory minimums. I can remember several times when they sent an airplane for days without an APU and external cart starts needed. One time, it was almost 100 degrees outside, and we were cooking in the airplane without air conditioning, with all doors closed, while they went through 3 air carts because the first two failed. It was a total third world experience as a passenger that day (and WiFi didn't work, and neither did the TV at my seat).

I don't understand how management can blame employees or how you can. That's the first sign of inept managers. The problem is that management, all of them, need to go. You can make the argument that it's fussy crewmembers but you have to keep in mind that no jetblue crewmember is paid industry wages and has industry workplace protections. Delta pilots are getting as much as $40,000 in profit sharing (senior pilot) to $15,000 for new guys. I heard JB pilots are getting around $300??? That's quite a difference. Sorry but this is squarely the fault of JB management.

Look at this: https://media.thinknum.com/articles/jet ... onization/

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