IAmGaroott
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:55 pm

winginit wrote:
IAmGaroott wrote:
Swadian wrote:

If B6 has the same management rift as AA has with merger-happy Doug Parker, I wouldn't be shocked to see B6 merge with AA. After all, Doug Parker is the only major airline CEO who's essentially dedicated his entire career to mergers.


I often wondered if the AA US marriage was blocked, that US would have gone after B6 and taken on their business model.


In late 2012 I came across a McKinsey deck for AA that walked through some backup ideas should the AA-US merger not come to fruition.

An AA-B6-AS “triangle merger” was brought up. Hell of a concept.


That’s interesting! I could see LAA emerging from bankruptcy protection and getting together with AS. But B6 seems like it would have been a lot of east coast and Caribbean overlap. Plus the incompatible fleet types (I feel like LAA only ordered Airbus narrow bodies once they were US merger or bust).
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:57 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
enilria wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I think you also have to include SFO as a problem airport.

My point was that an entire region of huge airports are impacted simultaneously when there are problems. SFO is just an airport with its own operational (fog) challenges. It is not a region of large airports with conjoined operational problems.
Don't you have to include IAD and BWI then? Surely they are in the same region as DCA. Here are the top 5 on time airports for arrivals in 2018 through October:
1. SLC-85.65%
2. ATL-84.07%
3. DTW-83.84%
4. MSP-83.81%
5. PDX-83.29%
Notice a trend? I do. DL has made a commitment to being on time. B6 needs to do the same if they want to improve. It will most likely never be as good given the constraints you have mentioned, but improvement is certainly possible.


Delta has chosen to hub in some cities where being on time is likely/easy. B6 has chosen hubs JFK/BOS that experience the same bad weather at the same time, and are too congested/close to each other. Part of B6 problem is the lack of ability to re-route people in bad weather. Delta has chosen some hubs they dominate and have plenty of resources to get back up and running quickly. Delta has a network that can absorb the JFK/LGA delays and take pressure off them to re-route people. B6 has few options other than flying a few days later after a storm, not the best customer experience.

B6 is very on time out of LGB too. It's just too small to matter and not a good location to re-route many people.
Last edited by slcdeltarumd11 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:57 pm

I keep imagining not a merger of Alaska and JetBlue, but a strategic alliance. I think such a thing would not violate any federal monopoly laws. Each would do some competing on long continental legs, but mostly they should go back to their original niche of super-regional (A, west and J east) modestly up scale, middle of the market prices. Better service to the middle of the country would logically follow. What's not to like?
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stlgph
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:06 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
I keep imagining not a merger of Alaska and JetBlue, but a strategic alliance. I think such a thing would not violate any federal monopoly laws. Each would do some competing on long continental legs, but mostly they should go back to their original niche of super-regional (A, west and J east) modestly up scale, middle of the market prices. Better service to the middle of the country would logically follow. What's not to like?


Probably that Alaska Airlines doesn't want to get wrapped up in depending on a chronically delayed carrier.
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STT757
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:27 pm

N649DL wrote:
ScottB wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
You cannot fly the majority of your trips in the Northeast, and not expect horrible on-times, especially after the summer we just had. JFK and LGA are delay creators almost daily, through no fault of JB’s.


But it's not just one month only. I went back six months (May to October 2018) and compared B6 to DL (mainline, DL Connection, and combined) at BOS, JFK, LGA, and DCA. Out of 72 possible data points (3 DL on-time percentages times four airports times six months), B6 only beat DL (the DL Connection number each time) twice: by 0.4 percentage points at DCA in October and 1.3 points at LGA in August. In June, DL Connection was a whopping 10 points higher (75.9% vs. 65.9%) than B6 at LGA! Passengers are still far less likely to be delayed on DL Connection than they are on B6. And FWIW, systemwide, DL Connection would have been the #5 carrier for on-time year-to-date if it were tracked separately, not to mention over 9 points above B6.

N649DL wrote:
Personally, I'm all for B6 merging with UAL. They get a true southern hub, major Int'l presence (thanks to UAL), and would get back JFK. If it ever were to happen they'd have to release gates at EWR I'm sure.


I'm baffled by the idea that UA would give up anything at EWR in a hypothetical (and highly unlikely) merger with B6. The EWR hub is enormously profitable thanks to being the only consolidated domestic and international hub in the region. DL is doing the best with what they've have, with operations split between LGA and JFK, but it's still not as good as the EWR hub when something like GSO-TLV requires a double-connect or a cab ride on the Van Wyck. What UA wants at JFK is something like 15-20 daily operations so they can offer LAX/SFO-JFK in corporate contracts where the customer cares about which NYC airport is served. That's it. Neither FLL nor MCO is a "true southern hub." FLL is a decent gateway to the Caribbean and Latin America (but not as good as MIA) while MCO is leisure central. They're both terrible for connections within the Southeast -- they'd be better off geographically using IAD or IAH for that purpose. Using MSY-RDU as an example, even MSY-IAH-RDU is shorter than MSY-FLL-RDU while MSY-IAD-RDU is much shorter.

enilria wrote:
My point was that an entire region of huge airports are impacted simultaneously when there are problems. SFO is just an airport with its own operational (fog) challenges. It is not a region of large airports with conjoined operational problems.



Well, to be fair to UAL at EWR they need to look further down the road with the new Terminal A being constructed. Airlines have been chipping away at their dominance over the last 5-10 years and it's only going to continue. How is FLL or MCO not a true "Southern Hub?" What B6 has developed in FLL has been tried by other carriers and they never made it work. My guess if it ever were to happen, they would have to give up some at both airports but having T5 at JFK would be a paradise compared to Terminal C.


I think UA would be better served acquiring NK rather than B6. As we have been discussing B6 is having some major labor relations issues. NK is a much smaller airline and would be better absorbed into UA. NK also has hubs, focus cities, large operations (whatever you want to call them) in MCO and FLL. They don't get UA back into JFK, but they do have more LGA slots than B6. I also believe NK has more LAX gates than B6, something UA could benefit from right now.
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VS4ever
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:49 pm

enilria wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
enilria wrote:
Sure, then they are at a massive cost disadvantage to the legacy carriers. Spares and lets not forget you need crews too, cost a lot of money just sitting around. This is why the traditional dedicated BOS-LGA-DCA shuttles with spares are gone. Frankly, they have already have taken steps by upping those costs, but it would be simply impossible to get to numbers like non-Northeast-centric airlines have. This is a completely different story than somebody like F9 whose problems are self-made.

You can have all of the spare metal you want, and it won’t matter a bit with two-three hour taxi times in an IROP. And how many of those DL completions were delayed overnight? ( A favored DL tactic)

Agreed on DL. I've been on one of their 12 hour delays. I arrived at 550am. They just forced everybody to stay with "Free" (Their Cost: $3/pax) Domino's Pizza until another plane wrapped up its day and then used it. There was never even a plane at the gate. It's not as if they were trying to fix it, and this was at a DL hub where they have spares. And they called that a completed flight. It's little better than Spirit.


I had similar with B6 last year. Was at MCO for a flight back to BOS, ultimately delayed about about 7 hours, and I arrived back at around 5am too. The kicker. The replacement plane departed from the adjacent gate to do a MCO-RIC-MCO turn before it brought us back to BOS, The original delay was mechanical, but the lengthy delay was because it was a 321 and the RIC aircraft was the only one available with slack in the schedule to do our run.
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:39 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Next time someone claims JetBlue is a LCC, they should post CASM numbers.


I cringe every time I hear "JetBlue is a LCC" because when I used to live in Chicago, and wanted to visit family in Florida, JetBlue was usually the most expensive. NK was usually the cheapest with their nonstop ORD-RSW, followed usually by WN on MDW-RSW (nonstop up to 2 stop), and the legacies were usually after that with nonstops and one stops from ORD-RSW. JetBlue, with their one stops in BOS or JFK, were usually around $500+ one way. And that was at any given time of the year. Not sure what it is now price wise. To me that doesn't say "LCC"
 
flyby519
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:56 pm

greendot wrote:
You can try to minimize B6's failures by comparing it to other failures but minimizing the problem as an industry norm is not helpful. Instead, maybe employees should demand the board and shareholders to take action to dump the current managers and replace them with innovators, thinkers, intellectuals, disruptors, deal-makers, and people who truly care about employees and customers.


Well said.

The problem is the innovators, thinkers, intellectuals, disruptors, etc dont want to get involved with a low margin/highly regulated industry like transportation when they can have a free-for-all in the tech industry.
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:34 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Delta has chosen to hub in some cities where being on time is likely/easy. B6 has chosen hubs JFK/BOS that experience the same bad weather at the same time, and are too congested/close to each other. Part of B6 problem is the lack of ability to re-route people in bad weather. Delta has chosen some hubs they dominate and have plenty of resources to get back up and running quickly. Delta has a network that can absorb the JFK/LGA delays and take pressure off them to re-route people. B6 has few options other than flying a few days later after a storm, not the best customer experience.

B6 is very on time out of LGB too. It's just too small to matter and not a good location to re-route many people.

I wouldn't say that either "chose" their hubs. DL's happened through mergers for the most part. B6 basically had to take whatever was left as they were last to the party.

Agreed on B6's problems re-routing in bad weather. A lot of that is DL's industry-leading decision to end what were industry standard agreements to trade passengers between carriers during operational problems. These types of "good sport" agreements were in place for nearly 100 years until Delta started the trend of eliminating them in order to leave competitors in a worse position. It is something that perhaps Congress should have dealt with.
 
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:55 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
enilria wrote:
My point was that an entire region of huge airports are impacted simultaneously when there are problems. SFO is just an airport with its own operational (fog) challenges. It is not a region of large airports with conjoined operational problems.
Don't you have to include IAD and BWI then? Surely they are in the same region as DCA. Here are the top 5 on time airports for arrivals in 2018 through October:
1. SLC-85.65%
2. ATL-84.07%
3. DTW-83.84%
4. MSP-83.81%
5. PDX-83.29%
Notice a trend? I do. DL has made a commitment to being on time. B6 needs to do the same if they want to improve. It will most likely never be as good given the constraints you have mentioned, but improvement is certainly possible.


Delta has chosen to hub in some cities where being on time is likely/easy. B6 has chosen hubs JFK/BOS that experience the same bad weather at the same time, and are too congested/close to each other. Part of B6 problem is the lack of ability to re-route people in bad weather. Delta has chosen some hubs they dominate and have plenty of resources to get back up and running quickly. Delta has a network that can absorb the JFK/LGA delays and take pressure off them to re-route people. B6 has few options other than flying a few days later after a storm, not the best customer experience.

B6 is very on time out of LGB too. It's just too small to matter and not a good location to re-route many people.
There is nothing "easy" about posting a 84% on time arrival rate in ATL.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:04 pm

enilria wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Delta has chosen to hub in some cities where being on time is likely/easy. B6 has chosen hubs JFK/BOS that experience the same bad weather at the same time, and are too congested/close to each other. Part of B6 problem is the lack of ability to re-route people in bad weather. Delta has chosen some hubs they dominate and have plenty of resources to get back up and running quickly. Delta has a network that can absorb the JFK/LGA delays and take pressure off them to re-route people. B6 has few options other than flying a few days later after a storm, not the best customer experience.

B6 is very on time out of LGB too. It's just too small to matter and not a good location to re-route many people.

I wouldn't say that either "chose" their hubs. DL's happened through mergers for the most part. B6 basically had to take whatever was left as they were last to the party.

Agreed on B6's problems re-routing in bad weather. A lot of that is DL's industry-leading decision to end what were industry standard agreements to trade passengers between carriers during operational problems. These types of "good sport" agreements were in place for nearly 100 years until Delta started the trend of eliminating them in order to leave competitors in a worse position. It is something that perhaps Congress should have dealt with.
I don't believe B6 ever interlined with DL. I don't think B6 ever had agreements with any other US airlines, did they?
 
flyby519
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:06 pm

enilria wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I wouldn't say that either "chose" their hubs. DL's happened through mergers for the most part. B6 basically had to take whatever was left as they were last to the party.

Agreed on B6's problems re-routing in bad weather. A lot of that is DL's industry-leading decision to end what were industry standard agreements to trade passengers between carriers during operational problems. These types of "good sport" agreements were in place for nearly 100 years until Delta started the trend of eliminating them in order to leave competitors in a worse position. It is something that perhaps Congress should have dealt with.


To play devil's advocate though, B6 had plenty of opportunity to take LAX/SFO gates pre-VX and they passed/chose LGB instead. One of the biggest blunders in my opinion. Also, those mid-America hubs are easily manufactured. There are a half dozen secondary cities that B6 could dump capacity/money into and make into a connect hub similar to a MSP operation for DL.

I definitely agree with the interline agreements and think it is something Congress should have addressed.
 
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:06 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
enilria wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Delta has chosen to hub in some cities where being on time is likely/easy. B6 has chosen hubs JFK/BOS that experience the same bad weather at the same time, and are too congested/close to each other. Part of B6 problem is the lack of ability to re-route people in bad weather. Delta has chosen some hubs they dominate and have plenty of resources to get back up and running quickly. Delta has a network that can absorb the JFK/LGA delays and take pressure off them to re-route people. B6 has few options other than flying a few days later after a storm, not the best customer experience.

B6 is very on time out of LGB too. It's just too small to matter and not a good location to re-route many people.

I wouldn't say that either "chose" their hubs. DL's happened through mergers for the most part. B6 basically had to take whatever was left as they were last to the party.

Agreed on B6's problems re-routing in bad weather. A lot of that is DL's industry-leading decision to end what were industry standard agreements to trade passengers between carriers during operational problems. These types of "good sport" agreements were in place for nearly 100 years until Delta started the trend of eliminating them in order to leave competitors in a worse position. It is something that perhaps Congress should have dealt with.
I don't believe B6 ever interlined with DL. I don't think B6 ever had agreements with any other US airlines, did they?


For a relatively short while, B6 did interline with AA (right around when DFW started). The partnership seemed to benefit AA more than B6, and it ended up being short-lived. B6 still codeshares with both Cape Air and Silver Airways.
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micstatic
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:11 pm

GatorClark wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Next time someone claims JetBlue is a LCC, they should post CASM numbers.


I cringe every time I hear "JetBlue is a LCC" because when I used to live in Chicago, and wanted to visit family in Florida, JetBlue was usually the most expensive. NK was usually the cheapest with their nonstop ORD-RSW, followed usually by WN on MDW-RSW (nonstop up to 2 stop), and the legacies were usually after that with nonstops and one stops from ORD-RSW. JetBlue, with their one stops in BOS or JFK, were usually around $500+ one way. And that was at any given time of the year. Not sure what it is now price wise. To me that doesn't say "LCC"


lcc doesn't necessarily mean low cost airfare It means the airline itself has lower costs
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flyby519
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:17 pm

NASBWI wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
enilria wrote:
I wouldn't say that either "chose" their hubs. DL's happened through mergers for the most part. B6 basically had to take whatever was left as they were last to the party.

Agreed on B6's problems re-routing in bad weather. A lot of that is DL's industry-leading decision to end what were industry standard agreements to trade passengers between carriers during operational problems. These types of "good sport" agreements were in place for nearly 100 years until Delta started the trend of eliminating them in order to leave competitors in a worse position. It is something that perhaps Congress should have dealt with.
I don't believe B6 ever interlined with DL. I don't think B6 ever had agreements with any other US airlines, did they?


For a relatively short while, B6 did interline with AA (right around when DFW started). The partnership seemed to benefit AA more than B6, and it ended up being short-lived. B6 still codeshares with both Cape Air and Silver Airways.


B6 also interlined with VX pre-AS merger. Mostly on the JFK-LAX/SFO routes I believe
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:46 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
enilria wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Delta has chosen to hub in some cities where being on time is likely/easy. B6 has chosen hubs JFK/BOS that experience the same bad weather at the same time, and are too congested/close to each other. Part of B6 problem is the lack of ability to re-route people in bad weather. Delta has chosen some hubs they dominate and have plenty of resources to get back up and running quickly. Delta has a network that can absorb the JFK/LGA delays and take pressure off them to re-route people. B6 has few options other than flying a few days later after a storm, not the best customer experience.

B6 is very on time out of LGB too. It's just too small to matter and not a good location to re-route many people.

I wouldn't say that either "chose" their hubs. DL's happened through mergers for the most part. B6 basically had to take whatever was left as they were last to the party.

Agreed on B6's problems re-routing in bad weather. A lot of that is DL's industry-leading decision to end what were industry standard agreements to trade passengers between carriers during operational problems. These types of "good sport" agreements were in place for nearly 100 years until Delta started the trend of eliminating them in order to leave competitors in a worse position. It is something that perhaps Congress should have dealt with.
I don't believe B6 ever interlined with DL. I don't think B6 ever had agreements with any other US airlines, did they?

Not interlined. We are talking IROPS.

This is what the airlines somehow found their way out of, led by Delta. I remember even NK sending people to DL using RULE120.

"RULE 120.20 - Is simply the agreement that ALL IATA carriers have to accept the original flight coupons (with value) as long as their is no change in origin or destination. So someone traveling on COCO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO-EWR and has their flight cancelled and is rebooked on NWCO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO-DTW-EWR; takes their CO flight coupon to NW that has been endorsed by CO and is guaranteed travel at no additional cost as long as the new carrier has seats available. "
viewtopic.php?t=247473
 
N649DL
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:36 pm

STT757 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ScottB wrote:

But it's not just one month only. I went back six months (May to October 2018) and compared B6 to DL (mainline, DL Connection, and combined) at BOS, JFK, LGA, and DCA. Out of 72 possible data points (3 DL on-time percentages times four airports times six months), B6 only beat DL (the DL Connection number each time) twice: by 0.4 percentage points at DCA in October and 1.3 points at LGA in August. In June, DL Connection was a whopping 10 points higher (75.9% vs. 65.9%) than B6 at LGA! Passengers are still far less likely to be delayed on DL Connection than they are on B6. And FWIW, systemwide, DL Connection would have been the #5 carrier for on-time year-to-date if it were tracked separately, not to mention over 9 points above B6.



I'm baffled by the idea that UA would give up anything at EWR in a hypothetical (and highly unlikely) merger with B6. The EWR hub is enormously profitable thanks to being the only consolidated domestic and international hub in the region. DL is doing the best with what they've have, with operations split between LGA and JFK, but it's still not as good as the EWR hub when something like GSO-TLV requires a double-connect or a cab ride on the Van Wyck. What UA wants at JFK is something like 15-20 daily operations so they can offer LAX/SFO-JFK in corporate contracts where the customer cares about which NYC airport is served. That's it. Neither FLL nor MCO is a "true southern hub." FLL is a decent gateway to the Caribbean and Latin America (but not as good as MIA) while MCO is leisure central. They're both terrible for connections within the Southeast -- they'd be better off geographically using IAD or IAH for that purpose. Using MSY-RDU as an example, even MSY-IAH-RDU is shorter than MSY-FLL-RDU while MSY-IAD-RDU is much shorter.




Well, to be fair to UAL at EWR they need to look further down the road with the new Terminal A being constructed. Airlines have been chipping away at their dominance over the last 5-10 years and it's only going to continue. How is FLL or MCO not a true "Southern Hub?" What B6 has developed in FLL has been tried by other carriers and they never made it work. My guess if it ever were to happen, they would have to give up some at both airports but having T5 at JFK would be a paradise compared to Terminal C.


I think UA would be better served acquiring NK rather than B6. As we have been discussing B6 is having some major labor relations issues. NK is a much smaller airline and would be better absorbed into UA. NK also has hubs, focus cities, large operations (whatever you want to call them) in MCO and FLL. They don't get UA back into JFK, but they do have more LGA slots than B6. I also believe NK has more LAX gates than B6, something UA could benefit from right now.


Outside of these types of forums, I think to the average traveler B6 still has some street cred in terms of popularity of free amenities compared to NK which is essentially a bottom feeder LLC. For one, UAL if they did merge with B6 would bring in their better managed on-time operations which would repair the damage in hubs like BOS. Add in the MCO and FLL hubs, "Mint", dual JFK/EWR hubs ops, and re-branding into a hybrid JetBlue color scheme and that would be something else.
 
Abeam79
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:52 pm

This is your typical Anet pinhole focused with nothing better to do than look at the near term minutiae of a on,y 20yr old airline that had did nothing but beat all industry odds. You guys need to find other things to pique your interest.
B6 is in a transformation stage if their evolution. And they are taken no a hard long look at airline history and not wanting to do the same mistakes and end up folding. But these evolution take time and patience. They aren’t playing to ego driven tactics that led leaders of such companies like pan am, peoples express, Texas air and eastern to collapse because of playing the haste game. Give it some time, you’ll see there is reason why they are now seem “directionless” to some. You can’t hastily make whimsical decisions just for the sake of being the snappy airline everyone wants to hem to be.
 
stlgph
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:13 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
This is your typical Anet pinhole focused with nothing better to do than look at the near term minutiae of a on,y 20yr old airline that had did nothing but beat all industry odds. You guys need to find other things to pique your interest.
B6 is in a transformation stage if their evolution. And they are taken no a hard long look at airline history and not wanting to do the same mistakes and end up folding. But these evolution take time and patience. They aren’t playing to ego driven tactics that led leaders of such companies like pan am, peoples express, Texas air and eastern to collapse because of playing the haste game. Give it some time, you’ll see there is reason why they are now seem “directionless” to some. You can’t hastily make whimsical decisions just for the sake of being the snappy airline everyone wants to hem to be.


Finally! Someone fills me in on something I always knew -- the New York Jets and JetBlue were the same thing.

Bring on another rebuilding season!
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OA412
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:30 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
LawnDart wrote:
From the latest Air Travel Consumer Report (data for OCT 2018) On-Time Arrivals (all data mainline only)


How about including Delta Connection and American Eagle? JetBlue operates all their own flights; they don't have poor performing regional airline flights to cancel when they want to make their mainline stats look better.

Bingo.....
Somebody gets it.


:shakehead: Numbers have now been provided twice in this thread indicating that even with Delta Connection and American Eagle folded in, AA and DL have better on-time numbers than does B6.
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:37 pm

OA412 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
IPFreely wrote:

How about including Delta Connection and American Eagle? JetBlue operates all their own flights; they don't have poor performing regional airline flights to cancel when they want to make their mainline stats look better.

Bingo.....
Somebody gets it.


:shakehead: Numbers have now been provided twice in this thread indicating that even with Delta Connection and American Eagle folded in, AA and DL have better on-time numbers than does B6.


Yes, but that is the problem with the world today...when people dont like facts, they make up their own facts...and when you prove them wrong, they keep repeating their “alternate facts” over and over and over again.

DL and AA are more on time out of NYC then B6. With the regionals, without the regionals...whatever you want. Still more on time.

And now there is a combined DOT ranking list.

B6 came in 15/17 on the last on time list. Behind every regional. Behind every major.

Thems the facts...
 
USAirKid
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 am

IAmGaroott wrote:
That’s interesting! I could see LAA emerging from bankruptcy protection and getting together with AS. But B6 seems like it would have been a lot of east coast and Caribbean overlap. Plus the incompatible fleet types (I feel like LAA only ordered Airbus narrow bodies once they were US merger or bust).


AA ordered their A319s and A321s before they filed Chapter 11. Even in bankruptcy they wanted to emerge as a stand alone carrier without merging with US. (They merged with US as part of their emergence from Bankruptcy.)

Edit: Clarity on AA’s status when they merged with US.
 
6YBLUE
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:00 am

fastmover wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
I posted this on another B6 thread but find it appropriate here as well.

Wow whiners out in full effect. We get it. Management at B6 has issues starting from the top. AA has the same issues with Doug Parker. It happens.

But your attitudes and moral have a huge effect on your operations wether you see it or not. You can’t blame the issues solely on management but on yourselves as well. You are part of the problem. If you have a chip on your shoulder with your employer you may not see it, but guaranteed it is shown in your demeanor around your customers or in your work performance. Rather than bitch and moan, why don’t you take pride in your company, be a standout and better yourselves and have a positive attitude. If that’s passed through the rest of the employees you can help tip the scales to a more favorable outlook for B6 and offset what management lacks.

You all have a job, benefits, and health insurance. Take a look at those less fortunate and out looking for jobs and wondering how to pay the next rent payment or grocery tab. If you don’t change your attitudes you may well be joining them soon.

And before any of you blast me, I’ve been in the industry. I’ve been laid off both pre911 and post911 from airlines and lost everything I’ve owned in my life both times. My first lay-off, both my employees and myself saw the writing on the wall and our morale was in the toilet and we didn’t give a shit at that point and that sped things faster to demise. Be grateful for what you have, find ways to make the work situation better, because if you don’t, tomorrow may not have something to offer you.




Yeah way to start out. Maybe you should be in management here. You just discount everything and call us whiners. Actually the vast majority of the employees are what is holding this company together. You don’t work here so you don’t see it. Again you don’t see us talking about making more money it’s about the current operations at jetblue and if that can be sustained. But sure we are just whiners. It’s the pride issue that you are confused about. I do have pride in my company but I grow tired of apologizing everyday because jetblue refuses to overblock flights and does 27 min turns with crew swaps, because we want max utilization. Great but don’t pretend you care about on time. Management doesn’t have to stand there as people get off and say can’t you guys ever be on time. How about walking through the terminal on Christmas having a passengers ask if you could fly them home because their flight is delayed 5 hours due to lack of pilots? The company won’t staff properly. It happened look at twitter look at our on time. How does one have pride in that? I am far from a whiner I love my company but I know we can’t keep going like this.




So you think JetBlue merging with Alaska will magically fix the issues and you'll be happily ever after? You are a whiner. So many people would love to work with JetBlue. The company is a baby in airline years and is obviously going through a transition in order to chart the next 20 years fwd. Hold your head down, do your job, collect your check and be glad you haven't been furloughed.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:02 pm

JetBlue management is in a tough place. JetBlue was founded on the idea of being a better choice to the legacy carriers. B6 is not a large International carrier nor is it a ULCC. Wall Street is pressuring management to act more like a ULCC since the upside of premium cabin revenue is limited to whatever routes Mint will work on. Possibly management needs to grow a pair and tell Wall Street to shove it, in the ways Southwest has. However, Southwest continues to post very impressive margins so Southwest management has that luxury of telling Wall Street to stick it.

Acquisition partners are very limited. I don't see Alaska having any interest until they fully digest the VS acquisition. The legacy carriers would have issues with antitrust and I'm not sure they would gain all that much. Possibly one of the ULCC then again B6 could simply turn themselves into an ULCC, but would then retain loyalty? What to do with Mint? The only other potential partner I see is maybe HA.
 
stlgph
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:08 pm

I love how many people think a merger of desperation or any with anybody....is the best solution for this airline.

Keep it up, a.net. You never fail.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
SWADawg
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:57 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
JetBlue management is in a tough place. JetBlue was founded on the idea of being a better choice to the legacy carriers. B6 is not a large International carrier nor is it a ULCC. Wall Street is pressuring management to act more like a ULCC since the upside of premium cabin revenue is limited to whatever routes Mint will work on. Possibly management needs to grow a pair and tell Wall Street to shove it, in the ways Southwest has. However, Southwest continues to post very impressive margins so Southwest management has that luxury of telling Wall Street to stick it.

Acquisition partners are very limited. I don't see Alaska having any interest until they fully digest the VS acquisition. The legacy carriers would have issues with antitrust and I'm not sure they would gain all that much. Possibly one of the ULCC then again B6 could simply turn themselves into an ULCC, but would then retain loyalty? What to do with Mint? The only other potential partner I see is maybe HA.

WN/B6. This naturally finishes off and brings the 3 mid tier original LCC’s together as one National carrier. You will have very few anti trust concerns since WN has no JFK presence and minimal presence in BOS. WN has fully digested FL long ago and after ETOPS is approved for Hawaii ops, will be ready to take on another acquisition. The two carriers compliment each other in the precise areas that both WN and B6 by themselves are lacking. The combined carrier is then dominant enough to be a true 4th Major Carrier, and the combined carrier can then look at effectively competing against the Big 3 across the Atlantic and eventually the Pacific.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:05 pm

stlgph wrote:
I love how many people think a merger of desperation or any with anybody....is the best solution for this airline.

Keep it up, a.net. You never fail.

First, there is no desperation. B6 is a profitable airline. It has nothing to do with desperation.

Second, if they merge with Alaska (which again, I hate mergers) it will be because they can no longer profitably grow significantly (more than 5-7% per year) in the U.S. market without losses. They may still be able to grow more than that with Transatlantic, but the window to make big bucks on the Atlantic has already peaked and they are far away from launch.

Third, the reason they cannot grow at a rate that will allow them to become a national carrier is that the DOJ allowed too many other mergers and the mega-carriers are now so powerful it is no longer possible for a carrier with B6's business model to go and take market share without it costing more money than they can afford.

Fourth, they could always reverse course and become a ULCC and everything would be very different, but the management has shown no interest in that...in fact, exactly the opposite. So they are boxed into this reality by their own strategic direction.

Fifth, when your strategy is to be like the legacies (or their pre-cursors), history shows you will be acquired by one of the legacies or become a "legacy" through a merger. I don't like it. I don't want fewer airlines. I want competition. I'd rather the DOJ take steps to bust up the current 4 carrier lock on the industry, but as long as that isn't happening B6 and AS will inevitably merge.
 
stlgph
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:08 pm

As I said...I love how many people think a merger of desperation or any with anybody is the best solution for this airline.

Letting JetBlue be JetBlue and work on being JetBlue....what a hell of a concept.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:19 pm

To elaborate on my own merger musings...

The core problem with the way the DOJ/DOT have always looked at the industry is to conflate it with other industries like phone service or grocery stores. The structure of the airline industry network is very different. The telecom business can be competitive with 3 or 4 carriers because in any given city, a consumer can pick any of the 4 and absent some dead spots here and there, the options are mostly on equal footing. With groceries or pharmacies, they prevent one grocery from having 70% share from a merger through divestiture.

They only do that with slots/gates at a few airports in this industry and that coupled with the inherently unequal product caused by an airline network, they have created an industry with very poor competition outside the largest cities. Even a market like ABQ is dominated by a single carrier. Yes, you can fly on airlines other than WN, but the product is so much worse you really can't. It's not like if you choose TMobile in ABQ all the calls have a 3 minute wait before they are connected. If they were you would drop TMobile in a minute. Well, not flying on WN in ABQ means adding hours of travel time to most popular destinations. And that's just ABQ. There's really hardly any airports that are relatively balanced in the USA in terms of the product being fairly equal and they are usually either really large like Los Angeles or pretty small like Grand Rapids. All the cities in between are basically in the pocket of a single carrier who offers by far the best service product and nobody else can really compete. I'm not sure there is another industry as broken as that. Maybe pharma. This is why carriers like B6 are left without the ability to really grow into being the next competitive option. They are hobbled before they can grow out of network infancy by the system that has been created. And yes, a carrier with hubs all on one coast is in network infancy. And I think we all know a non-ULCC starting today couldn't even get anywhere near where B6 has even made it to.
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:24 pm

stlgph wrote:
As I said...I love how many people think a merger of desperation or any with anybody is the best solution for this airline.

Letting JetBlue be JetBlue and work on being JetBlue....what a hell of a concept.

Well, the problem is that Delta won't let them be JetBlue. Delta is attempting to pry away the BOS cash cow that funds the whole airline. I don't think DL will necessarily win, but they will cost B6 a lot of money and the amount of money it costs DL is nickels for their size, so why not spend some of their pile of gold pushing another marginal competitor so DL can ultimately raise fares in the face of even less competition and make back their investment in messing with JetBlue? This is the system that was created with DOJ's hands off approach. DL is only guilty of taking advantage of the gifts they have been given.

So for JetBlue to continue to be JetBlue they will need a new strategy to offset the negative impact of DL sinking capacity into the most profitable part of their network.
 
stlgph
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:01 pm

"The problem is that Delta won't let them be JetBlue."

Yet another excuse.

Did Howard Hughes let Juan Trippe stop him from being Howard Hughes?

Did Chik-Fil-A let McDonald's stop them from being Chik Fil A?

Did JW Marriott let the Hiltons get in his way?


But by all means, in true a.net fashion, keep the excuses coming.




Wake me up when you all come up with something more original.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:10 pm

6YBLUE wrote:
So you think JetBlue merging with Alaska will magically fix the issues and you'll be happily ever after? You are a whiner. So many people would love to work with JetBlue. The company is a baby in airline years and is obviously going through a transition in order to chart the next 20 years fwd. Hold your head down, do your job, collect your check and be glad you haven't been furloughed.


Ahh the whole "someone else would be happy to have your job" routine. And guess what? After a month they will be saying the same things as the people they replaced.

How about this instead: do your job ,collect your check, and constantly strive and struggle to make the place better and make your working conditions, pay, benefits better.

The people who skip that last part and just hold their head down are still working for minimum wage in their 70s, or coughing up black lungs in a mine somewhere. No thanks.

You know what merging with Alaska will magically fix almost instantly though? Better pay and work rules, almost overnight. Heck, the Virgin America FAs no longer have to clean the airplanes between legs anymore either. Thank to that magical Alaska merge.

Ask the Virgin America FAs about that for clarity.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:14 pm

But what would WN get with B6 other than more jets, gates and routes? Then would come the different a/c types, cabin mix, route approach, etc? Luckily WN has a stable management not obsessed with pleasing the growth of business at all costs Wall Street gods.
 
SWADawg
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:47 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
But what would WN get with B6 other than more jets, gates and routes? Then would come the different a/c types, cabin mix, route approach, etc? Luckily WN has a stable management not obsessed with pleasing the growth of business at all costs Wall Street gods.

It gets them MUCH bigger in the Northeast, which is admittedly an area of weakness for WN. It gets B6, literally the rest of the lower 48. WN is a much more complex Airline than at any other time in their history. Different a/c types wouldn’t be as daunting a task for WN as it might have been even 10 years ago when they acquired FL. The cabin mix wouldn’t be a problem, as WN would probably change the cabins of B6 Aircraft over to the standard WN cabin. Route approach, minus the Transcons is actually very similar to WN, so again, not a major problem. WN management also recognizes when a strategic asset acquisition which would enable WN access to gates and slots that they currently don’t have would be better long term for WN and their Network than not having them. Wall Street would be happy, as both Airlines coming together would have an even bigger combined market cap thereby increasing the value of the common stock of both Airlines.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:50 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
But what would WN get with B6 other than more jets, gates and routes? Then would come the different a/c types, cabin mix, route approach, etc? Luckily WN has a stable management not obsessed with pleasing the growth of business at all costs Wall Street gods.



other than more jets, gates, routes? thats all that matters

Very nice terminals, tons of gates and slots at the nations most lucrative airports and markets is what they'd get. They'd get instant giant access to New York and Boston, a fortress hub like effect at MCO and FLL and some extra access to the big west coast cities as a cherry on top. Oh, and the Caribbean network.

They'd have a frighteningly powerful strangle hold on domestic air travel in the USA is what they'd have.
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:04 pm

enilria wrote:
stlgph wrote:
As I said...I love how many people think a merger of desperation or any with anybody is the best solution for this airline.

Letting JetBlue be JetBlue and work on being JetBlue....what a hell of a concept.

Well, the problem is that Delta won't let them be JetBlue. Delta is attempting to pry away the BOS cash cow that funds the whole airline. I don't think DL will necessarily win, but they will cost B6 a lot of money and the amount of money it costs DL is nickels for their size, so why not spend some of their pile of gold pushing another marginal competitor so DL can ultimately raise fares in the face of even less competition and make back their investment in messing with JetBlue? This is the system that was created with DOJ's hands off approach. DL is only guilty of taking advantage of the gifts they have been given.

So for JetBlue to continue to be JetBlue they will need a new strategy to offset the negative impact of DL sinking capacity into the most profitable part of their network.


The way you're framing it, it sounds like you want more competition unless it's DL doing it.

Let's revisit this when B6 is actually struggling. As has been stated elsewhere they're still doing well for themselves financially in spite of DL's growth in BOS. Even if they come off as strategically adrift, by the historical standards of the airline industry they're nowhere near crisis.

CobaltScar wrote:
They'd have a frighteningly powerful strangle hold on domestic air travel in the USA is what they'd have.


"Stranglehold" is about two degrees too hyperbolic.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:20 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
But what would WN get with B6 other than more jets, gates and routes? Then would come the different a/c types, cabin mix, route approach, etc? Luckily WN has a stable management not obsessed with pleasing the growth of business at all costs Wall Street gods.



other than more jets, gates, routes? thats all that matters

Very nice terminals, tons of gates and slots at the nations most lucrative airports and markets is what they'd get. They'd get instant giant access to New York and Boston, a fortress hub like effect at MCO and FLL and some extra access to the big west coast cities as a cherry on top. Oh, and the Caribbean network.

They'd have a frighteningly powerful strangle hold on domestic air travel in the USA is what they'd have.


So AS would get very competitive airports in NYC and Boston and two airports in FL with massive ULCC competition? More gates, jets, routes doesn't mean more profits.
 
MR27122
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:43 pm

stlgph wrote:
As I said...I love how many people think a merger of desperation or any with anybody is the best solution for this airline.

Letting JetBlue be JetBlue and work on being JetBlue....what a hell of a concept.


That's 'bout all that needs to be said. This is an "if" thread, not an "is" thread. B6 is profitable. B6 has the most innovative x-country biz-class offering. B6 has a mess of A220's coming online. B6 has a fantastic employee core (I'm 5yrs Mosaic). B6 has an uber loyal customer base in BOS & JFK.

B6 does have operational delays.

I'm only learning of the parts of B6 that are perceived to be broken via this thread....otherwise, what I see week in/week out flying B6...I don't see "if" or experience "if".

AA, DL haven't been able to quash B6 @ JFK. What if---and this is simply a thought---B6 developed SLC? An AS merger---B6 would have to be the surviving brand, to the displeasure of all AS folks---your "everyday pax" (i.e. non Anet'r) doesn't associate Alaska w/ an FLL-JFK flight & would most probably skew towards legacy.

If B6 were in dire $$$ shape, then ya a "need" to pivot rapidly would be dictated...but they ain't that....in the words of a wise Anet'r "Letting JetBlue be JetBlue and work on being JetBlue" is the NEED.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:58 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
They'd have a frighteningly powerful strangle hold on domestic air travel in the USA is what they'd have.


Stranglehold? The industry today is in a chokehold. If anything, when we already have 3 massive legacy carriers, it would actually be better for competition to have a new megacarrier to counter the legacies rather than 2 weak ones neither of which can compete on their own.
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:18 pm

SWADawg wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
But what would WN get with B6 other than more jets, gates and routes? Then would come the different a/c types, cabin mix, route approach, etc? Luckily WN has a stable management not obsessed with pleasing the growth of business at all costs Wall Street gods.

It gets them MUCH bigger in the Northeast, which is admittedly an area of weakness for WN. It gets B6, literally the rest of the lower 48. WN is a much more complex Airline than at any other time in their history. Different a/c types wouldn’t be as daunting a task for WN as it might have been even 10 years ago when they acquired FL. The cabin mix wouldn’t be a problem, as WN would probably change the cabins of B6 Aircraft over to the standard WN cabin. Route approach, minus the Transcons is actually very similar to WN, so again, not a major problem. WN management also recognizes when a strategic asset acquisition which would enable WN access to gates and slots that they currently don’t have would be better long term for WN and their Network than not having them. Wall Street would be happy, as both Airlines coming together would have an even bigger combined market cap thereby increasing the value of the common stock of both Airlines.



The northeast would never be a great market for WN In this case, It would be WN ATL 2.0. Get in only to cut back substantially.
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:21 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They'd have a frighteningly powerful strangle hold on domestic air travel in the USA is what they'd have.


Stranglehold? The industry today is in a chokehold. If anything, when we already have 3 massive legacy carriers, it would actually be better for competition to have a new megacarrier to counter the legacies rather than 2 weak ones neither of which can compete on their own.



And it would be horrible to have a small handful of megacarriers and in the next economic collapse watch maybe all but one survive. Yea no thanks. So we can enevtially have our own version of Aeroflot?
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
sonicruiser
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:49 pm

nine4nine wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They'd have a frighteningly powerful strangle hold on domestic air travel in the USA is what they'd have.


Stranglehold? The industry today is in a chokehold. If anything, when we already have 3 massive legacy carriers, it would actually be better for competition to have a new megacarrier to counter the legacies rather than 2 weak ones neither of which can compete on their own.


And it would be horrible to have a small handful of megacarriers and in the next economic collapse watch maybe all but one survive. Yea no thanks. So we can enevtially have our own version of Aeroflot?


What? If anything, that's even more reason to have one because if the economy goes south, the smaller airlines go bankrupt before the big ones. Besides, we already have 3 megacarriers as it is so we're not exactly talking about some distant future scenario, we have 3 huge legacies right now at this moment. If only one is gonna survive, might as well add one more to balance things out. If you think a scenario where there's a small handful of megacarriers is vulnerable to economic collapse, I have bad news for you. That's not a scenario, that's exactly what we have. In which case, competition goes from a crisis to a catastrophe.
 
Abeam79
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:35 am

nine4nine wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
But what would WN get with B6 other than more jets, gates and routes? Then would come the different a/c types, cabin mix, route approach, etc? Luckily WN has a stable management not obsessed with pleasing the growth of business at all costs Wall Street gods.

It gets them MUCH bigger in the Northeast, which is admittedly an area of weakness for WN. It gets B6, literally the rest of the lower 48. WN is a much more complex Airline than at any other time in their history. Different a/c types wouldn’t be as daunting a task for WN as it might have been even 10 years ago when they acquired FL. The cabin mix wouldn’t be a problem, as WN would probably change the cabins of B6 Aircraft over to the standard WN cabin. Route approach, minus the Transcons is actually very similar to WN, so again, not a major problem. WN management also recognizes when a strategic asset acquisition which would enable WN access to gates and slots that they currently don’t have would be better long term for WN and their Network than not having them. Wall Street would be happy, as both Airlines coming together would have an even bigger combined market cap thereby increasing the value of the common stock of both Airlines.



The northeast would never be a great market for WN In this case, It would be WN ATL 2.0. Get in only to cut back substantially.


This!
Swa dawg I’m sorry and I do respect your post/views, but your always hoping for this, but they will not be able to retain the B6 locals in the northeast and Florida. If they lost the huge chunk of air Tran customers in atl, a carrier more in line to the wn product, then forget about the northeast B6 locals. Wn product, as opposed to your point, is now even more different than ever before when compared B6. And B6 growth with over a hundred airbuses with a push for more boutiques style cabin service and market service is very different from wn. You also have to see that Jfk/bos/Fll and many lucrative transcon and carribean routes B6 offers are not the same type that wn would fit to fly to Hou/mdw/oak/dal that are typically low cost budget service airports. Wn/B6 is least likely to happen. Wn is got their own thing going for them that works for many years, they are big enough. That merger would be a total failure. Too many opposing synergies. If any, the top 3 is with AS, Ual, and HA which are much more aligned to the B6 type customer.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:20 am

sonicruiser wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They'd have a frighteningly powerful strangle hold on domestic air travel in the USA is what they'd have.


Stranglehold? The industry today is in a chokehold. If anything, when we already have 3 massive legacy carriers, it would actually be better for competition to have a new megacarrier to counter the legacies rather than 2 weak ones neither of which can compete on their own.

In what world is WN a weak carrier that can’t compete on its own?
 
sonicruiser
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:12 am

cledaybuck wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
They'd have a frighteningly powerful strangle hold on domestic air travel in the USA is what they'd have.


Stranglehold? The industry today is in a chokehold. If anything, when we already have 3 massive legacy carriers, it would actually be better for competition to have a new megacarrier to counter the legacies rather than 2 weak ones neither of which can compete on their own.

In what world is WN a weak carrier that can’t compete on its own?


Nobody said anything about WN, for all you know it could be a B6/AS merger, aka the only option left to create a nationwide carrier that doesn't involve WN or ULCC's. Any other option is delusional.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:18 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:

Stranglehold? The industry today is in a chokehold. If anything, when we already have 3 massive legacy carriers, it would actually be better for competition to have a new megacarrier to counter the legacies rather than 2 weak ones neither of which can compete on their own.

In what world is WN a weak carrier that can’t compete on its own?


Nobody said anything about WN, for all you know it could be a B6/AS merger, aka the only option left to create a nationwide carrier that doesn't involve WN or ULCC's. Any other option is delusional.


The Big IF JetBlue puts it's self up for sale. Everyone wondering and speculating who will be the buyer?
WN will not let anyone else buy B6. Just like AS couldn't let B6 buy VX. WN has to much to lose in the northeast and FL to let AS or anyone else get that much bigger.
I wouldn't be surprised if Warren Buffet was the Buyer of JetBlue. His investment group has the capital to ignore Wall Street demands and revamp JetBlue. Everyone thinks he would buy WN but this could be smoke and mirrors so that they can privately swoop in and get JetBlue for an amazing price point.
Warren Buffet would most likely inject new capital to accelerate A220 deliveries to retire the E190 quickly and also shead the older A320. This would make JetBlue a leaner more profitable airline.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:40 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:

Stranglehold? The industry today is in a chokehold. If anything, when we already have 3 massive legacy carriers, it would actually be better for competition to have a new megacarrier to counter the legacies rather than 2 weak ones neither of which can compete on their own.

In what world is WN a weak carrier that can’t compete on its own?


Nobody said anything about WN, for all you know it could be a B6/AS merger, aka the only option left to create a nationwide carrier that doesn't involve WN or ULCC's. Any other option is delusional.

Ummm, plenty of people have mentioned WN in this very thread. In fact, the post you responded to was about WN having a stranglehold with a hypothetical merger with B6. Nevertheless, the problem with a B6/AS merger is that it doesn’t create a nationwide carrier. The carrier would still have a giant hole in the middle of the country.
 
CLTDAL
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:36 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:40 pm

I think NOW......NO airline wants B6. Why would they? They don't even know what type of airline they are or where they are headed??!! Not to mention they are chronically late, employee morale is low and they have absolute NO direction. Its a messy and sloppy carrier now. I think maybe 10 years ago they could have merged. But US didn't want them with AA merger....Alaska didn't want them to merge with VX.....its all so elementary. Who wants to get wrapped up in a airline that will eventually have to make some major COSTLY changes and decisions to survive. Place is a ship sailing around in a big wide open ocean with no Captain. They are staying away.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:49 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
In what world is WN a weak carrier that can’t compete on its own?


Nobody said anything about WN, for all you know it could be a B6/AS merger, aka the only option left to create a nationwide carrier that doesn't involve WN or ULCC's. Any other option is delusional.


The Big IF JetBlue puts it's self up for sale. Everyone wondering and speculating who will be the buyer?
WN will not let anyone else buy B6. Just like AS couldn't let B6 buy VX. WN has to much to lose in the northeast and FL to let AS or anyone else get that much bigger.
I wouldn't be surprised if Warren Buffet was the Buyer of JetBlue. His investment group has the capital to ignore Wall Street demands and revamp JetBlue. Everyone thinks he would buy WN but this could be smoke and mirrors so that they can privately swoop in and get JetBlue for an amazing price point.
Warren Buffet would most likely inject new capital to accelerate A220 deliveries to retire the E190 quickly and also shead the older A320. This would make JetBlue a leaner more profitable airline.

Flyguy


Wow! This is far fetched, to put it nicely. Buffet buying JB?! C’mon man...
 
stlgph
Posts: 10806
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue does it need to be saved from its management?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:28 pm

God I just love this thread.

Every person who obsesses with coming on here savoring anything JetBlue comes on here saying the only way to make it better is for them to merge with everyone else.

If this airline was good as you all say it is, they don't need to merge forcing everyone to fly them because there's no other options.

Brilliant logic.

Please, now continue.
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