bobsmith99
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:02 am

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:31 pm

Legacy carriers do not seem to be interested in opening up any additional hubs. Utilizing the large, efficient hubs seems to be trend. The need for a UAL hub in SE is overstated in my opinion and technically IAD is a "southern" hub as it's in VA. To further illustrate my point- the actual flying time from CLT to IAD is 55 minutes and gate to gate is 1 hr., 22 min. CLT to ATL is 42 minutes and 1 hr 13 min gate to gate (per travel math website). Not much of a difference- an additional hub is redundant. They certainly are not going to build one in a smaller city, IMHO.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 891
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:43 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
....UA would be miniscule at first).

.

UA at CLT would necessarily start small.
Stated succinctly, UA has been trying to right-size IAD since 1985, and is still trying to right-size IAD.

Going to DEN or connecting at DEN and live inside the Capitol Beltway or south of I-66? Chances are you're on an F9 nonstep ex-DCA (3x daily. UA has 1 nonstop daily ex-DCA, but 5x daily ex-IAD, 3 of which are the 1600-1900 bank).

People think.

You need 50 or more gates for a hub.

UA won’t be opening a hub in CLT.

There aren’t enough gates or facilities.

If you have a hub where is Maintenance going to be?

No hangar, no warehouse for parts etc.

Where are the facilities for pilots and FAs going to be?

It’s simply amazing no one thinks things out.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1803
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:57 pm

I didn't say that UA adds water to a freeze-dried hub in CLT, et voilà..

I'm said. UA's plan B is:
1) More UA service to .. if rumor becomes reality... CLT
2) 10 years... focus city (maybe CLT)
3) 20 years ... focus city maybe grows to a small hub
if
doubling down on IAD doesn't produce the ROI UA requires.

Nothing posted by detractors of plan B have explained how UA solves the EWR/DCA/IAD network dynamic that no operator has solved, though many have tried.
Bottom line: UA's hub depends upon CPE not escalating back to $10 more per pax than DCA. With subsidies, the CPE at IAD is artificially depressed. How long will the subsidies last... as long as the current MWAA board?

DL is apparently doubling down on AUS. Does this worry UA? Yes. Have UA's network planners been charged with developing a counterstrike? I think so.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:03 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
.

UA at CLT would necessarily start small.
Stated succinctly, UA has been trying to right-size IAD since 1985, and is still trying to right-size IAD.

Going to DEN or connecting at DEN and live inside the Capitol Beltway or south of I-66? Chances are you're on an F9 nonstep ex-DCA (3x daily. UA has 1 nonstop daily ex-DCA, but 5x daily ex-IAD, 3 of which are the 1600-1900 bank).

People think.

You need 50 or more gates for a hub.

UA won’t be opening a hub in CLT.

There aren’t enough gates or facilities.

If you have a hub where is Maintenance going to be?

No hangar, no warehouse for parts etc.

Where are the facilities for pilots and FAs going to be?

It’s simply amazing no one thinks things out.


Where did the magic 50 gate number come from? AA had hubs in RDU, BNA & SJC with no hangar. That's not a pre-requisite for a hub by any means. Not that I am advocating that they will build one, they won't, but your assumptions are way off.
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1599
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:14 pm

UA abandoning IAD to become second fiddle at CLT would be the biggest gift they could give to AA short of dehubbing ORD.

Despite IAD's shortcomings, there's still a lot of value in having a full-service hub in the nation's capital — certainly a lot more value than being an also-ran in a second-tier city.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
Bluegrass60
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 am

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:16 pm

The only way UA opens anything at CLT is if they buy AA. There is ZERO chance UA opens a hub or focus operation at CLT while AA is there. If UA does...go SHORT on UA stock.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2455
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:35 am

Boof02671 wrote:
People think.

You need 50 or more gates for a hub.

UA won’t be opening a hub in CLT.

There aren’t enough gates or facilities.

If you have a hub where is Maintenance going to be?

No hangar, no warehouse for parts etc.

Where are the facilities for pilots and FAs going to be?

It’s simply amazing no one thinks things out.


By your definition then the following are not hubs and never have been:

AA, DL, UA @ LAX
UA @ SFO
AS, DL @ SEA
AA (even during their peak), B6 @ JFK
DL @ CVG, DFW
TW, AA @ STL
AA @ BNA, RDU, SJC, SJU
WN (the airline with the most hubs) @ Anywhere

Also JFK did not become a DL until five years ago and MIA an AA hub until 10 years ago according to your definition.

One thing we do agree on is UA likely won’t be opening a hub in CLT.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1803
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:19 am

afcjets wrote:
By your definition then the following are not hubs and never have been:
* * *
* * *

One thing we do agree on is UA likely won’t be opening a hub in CLT.


Agreed... thus my comment about hubs not "opening" using some magic freeze-dried hubness.
See steps 1, 2, and 3.
Watch the replay of DL at JFK.
Next watch the replay of DL at SEA.
No freeze-dried magic powder... just (Glen Hauenstein's) inspired network planning, you know, THE guy who saved CO, then saved DL?

The smartest thing UA could do is make Glen CEO of UA. Glen would solve UA's network dynamics problem. Maybe not CLT as the key, but UA can't ignore CLT unless UA wants AA's nose under its tent in SFO. Oh wait.... AA has 3x daily nonstops CLT/SFO. Wait, wait... Is that a camel's nose??? :o :o :o

To be clear... I have never suggested that UA abandon IAD.
Last edited by WPvsMW on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:38 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 891
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:22 am

Why don’t you say UA should open a hub at ATL?
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1803
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:24 am

Now you're being silly. UA should not open a hub at ATL. UA could not recruit Glen if UA did that. :rotfl:
UA should pitch Glen that if he would fix UA's E. Coast network for UA, he could return to be CEO of DL when Ed becomes Chair.
 
User avatar
antoniemey
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:40 am

B737900ER wrote:
Italianflyer wrote:
I don't get this obsession with UA not having a footprint in deep Dixie. What kind of money are they leaving on the table? Stuff like TYS-FLL? RIC to MCO? Markets well covered by DL & AA with lots of ULCC competition.
It would involve allot of capital with questionable results.

What UA lacks in the deep South they make up for in the West. Two geographic and economic crown jewels; DEN is the de facto 'capital' of the intermountain region and SFO is....well...SFO (even with operational issues).


I’ve made this argument in the past and was run off the thread as some idiot looser. Apparently, unbeknownst to my ignorant and uneducated mind, dollar general and advance auto parts are headquartered somewhere in Alabama, so of course there’s tons of money being thrown around on travel in the SE


Dollar General is headquartered in Goodlettsville, TN, just outside of Nashville.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
OneAA
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:38 am

Re: Rumor: United adding gates at CLT

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:45 am

This CLT thread is hysterical! Can I please get some of what the small town CLT boosters are smoking? Must be good stuff! LMAO!

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