audidudi
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:56 pm

Three more movements (courtesy of skyliner-aviation.de):

Boeing 767-323 25450 495 N381AN American Airlines ferried 31 March 2019 JFK-ROW for storage
Boeing 767-323 27449 564 N389AA Cargo Aircraft Management ferried 01 April 2019 ROW-MZJ prior freighter conversion
Boeing 767-304 28039 610 I-AIGJ Airitaly Meridiana cs, ferried 01-02 April 2019 LDE-MXP-TLV, for freighter conversion** prior delivery to? ex N769NA
 
wjcandee
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:41 pm

audidudi wrote:
Three more movements (courtesy of skyliner-aviation.de):

Boeing 767-323 25450 495 N381AN American Airlines ferried 31 March 2019 JFK-ROW for storage
Boeing 767-323 27449 564 N389AA Cargo Aircraft Management ferried 01 April 2019 ROW-MZJ prior freighter conversion
Boeing 767-304 28039 610 I-AIGJ Airitaly Meridiana cs, ferried 01-02 April 2019 LDE-MXP-TLV, for freighter conversion** prior delivery to? ex N769NA


Thanks for the updates!

So the last two we dealt with in the other thread. That leaves 381AN, which will probably not spend too long in ROW; it is likely to be the next AA aircraft after 389AA to be titled to CAM and sent for conversion. The one from Lourdes isn't likely to be for CAM, so is going to be Atlas or any one of the other folks (DHL, Kalitta, etc.) who are converting 767s.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:25 am

The first of the "new" UPS 767-300F aircraft has been spotted at the flight line at Paine field (KPAE).

L/N 1180, N365UP, KPAE, April 10th 2019
Image

Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 6523960320

Aircraft Data : L/N 1180 C/N 65788 B767-300F N365UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR293)

The last factory built UPS 767-34AF aircraft was delivered at Sep 06 2013.

Aircraft data : L/N 1059 C/N 37878 B767-34AF N361UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR292)

Three converted ex. JAL 767-346ER(BCF) aircraft were added in 2017-2018 and registered in the UPS fleet as N362UP,N363UP and N364UP

Note : All UPS 767 aircraft are/will be equipped with Aviation Partners Boeing (APB) winglets. Fedex 767's are operated without winglets.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:54 pm

747classic: Great update! I read somewhere else that UPS is also going to convert some more used 767-300 pax aircraft beyond the 3 ex-JAL birds. Do you think their numbering will just be randomly-sprinkled through the 3xxUP numbering scheme, or do you think that new/converted will be distinguished somehow?
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:02 am

Looking at the present UPS fleet registration numbers :
757, all 75 bought direct from the factory, numbered sequential N401UP - N475UP
A300, all 53 bought direct from the factory, numbered sequential N120UP - N174UP (N132UP already allocated to another aircraft, N155UP written off)
MD11, total 38 , 11x CF6 powered aircraft are registered sequential N250UP - N260UP, 27X PW4000 powered are sequential registered N270UP-N296UP (N277UP written off)
744, total 14, all numbered sequential N570UP - N583UP (N571UP wriitten off)

Conclusion : All UPS aircraft are sequential registered (direct purchased or secondhand) following the date of entry in the UPS fleet.
The exception is the MD 11 fleet were the engine type installed (CF6 or PW4000) created two sub fleets.

Note : The all direct purchased 748 fleet will be numbered N605UP - N618UP, N619UP has already been assigned to a balloon, most probably later aircraft will be registered N620UP and further.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
NG263
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:02 pm

Possible candidate for a future life with UPS is JA611J of JAL. According to planespotters.net it has been withdrawn from use in August 2018. Sister ships JA604J, JA605J & JA609J have already been converted for UPS.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:35 am

NG263 wrote:
Possible candidate for a future life with UPS is JA611J of JAL. According to planespotters.net it has been withdrawn from use in August 2018. Sister ships JA604J, JA605J & JA609J have already been converted for UPS.

It will need to be "rebuilt" first. Last few pictures from HND saw it being used as spares for other aircraft.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:36 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
NG263 wrote:
Possible candidate for a future life with UPS is JA611J of JAL. According to planespotters.net it has been withdrawn from use in August 2018. Sister ships JA604J, JA605J & JA609J have already been converted for UPS.

It will need to be "rebuilt" first. Last few pictures from HND saw it being used as spares for other aircraft.


Is JAL retiring their 763 fleet?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:58 am

1989worstyear wrote:
Is JAL retiring their 763 fleet?

No
 
TzvikaPick
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:54 pm

El Al is selling used 767-300ER to a foreign airline
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-a ... 1001282185
That might be 4x-eak, AFAIK the only 767 owned by ElAl and not leased.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:15 pm

TzvikaPick wrote:
El Al is selling used 767-300ER to a foreign airline
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-a ... 1001282185
That might be 4x-eak, AFAIK the only 767 owned by ElAl and not leased.


I notice that the article says that ElAl has some 747-700s that it uses on medium and long range flights. I will have to try to get a ride on one of those!

EAK seems to be leased from AerCap, and seems to be damaged beyond economic repair, at least according to PlaneSpotters.net. Actually, it isn't really clear which aircraft they're talking about.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:36 am

According the latest Boeing Orders& Deliveries page four (4) 767-300F aircraft are ordered by an unidentified customer at Feb 22th 2019.

Any thoughts about the customer ?
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
na
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:27 am

747classic wrote:
According the latest Boeing Orders& Deliveries page four (4) 767-300F aircraft are ordered by an unidentified customer at Feb 22th 2019.
Any thoughts about the customer ?


The 767-300(F) is late 80s/early 90s technology equivalent to a 744F. How come the 767 is still somewhat competitive that someone wants to buy them new? Is it only that the 767 (and 757) sized aircraft niche is a market completely forgotten by the manufacturers for two decades?
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:04 pm

na wrote:
747classic wrote:
According the latest Boeing Orders& Deliveries page four (4) 767-300F aircraft are ordered by an unidentified customer at Feb 22th 2019.
Any thoughts about the customer ?


The 767-300(F) is late 80s/early 90s technology equivalent to a 744F. How come the 767 is still somewhat competitive that someone wants to buy them new? Is it only that the 767 (and 757) sized aircraft niche is a market completely forgotten by the manufacturers for two decades?



Purchase cost of a new 767-300F is relative low. (all development costs are already paid for and Boeing is willing to give large discounts.)
Low time pax 767-300's and powered by the correct engine type for PF conversion are difficult to purchase. (relative expensive)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
audidudi
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:54 pm

747classic wrote:
According the latest Boeing Orders& Deliveries page four (4) 767-300F aircraft are ordered by an unidentified customer at Feb 22th 2019.

Any thoughts about the customer ?

FedEx or UPS?
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:04 pm

na wrote:
747classic wrote:
According the latest Boeing Orders& Deliveries page four (4) 767-300F aircraft are ordered by an unidentified customer at Feb 22th 2019.
Any thoughts about the customer ?


The 767-300(F) is late 80s/early 90s technology equivalent to a 744F. How come the 767 is still somewhat competitive that someone wants to buy them new? Is it only that the 767 (and 757) sized aircraft niche is a market completely forgotten by the manufacturers for two decades?


Early/Mid '80s actually - the original 762 is from '82 and the 763 is from '86.

The A320 is late '80s tech and is still extremely competitive, but it signaled the peak of innovation in civil aircraft, unlike the 767.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:31 pm

na wrote:
The 767-300(F) is late 80s/early 90s technology equivalent to a 744F. How come the 767 is still somewhat competitive that someone wants to buy them new?


Freighters have much lower utilization than passenger planes so the operating economics are not as important. What is important is payload, range and ability to fit into existing infrastructure and the 767-300F ranks high in all three so that is why express package carriers like FedEx and UPS are buying them by the score and it is likely only a matter of time before Amazon Air adds new frames to their growing converted fleet.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:49 pm

audidudi wrote:
747classic wrote:
According the latest Boeing Orders& Deliveries page four (4) 767-300F aircraft are ordered by an unidentified customer at Feb 22th 2019.

Any thoughts about the customer ?

FedEx or UPS?


All FedEx and UPS 763 orders have never been indicated by "unidentified", and were also communicated at their websites.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
justplanesmart
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:44 am

747classic wrote:
According the latest Boeing Orders& Deliveries page four (4) 767-300F aircraft are ordered by an unidentified customer at Feb 22th 2019.

Any thoughts about the customer ?


SF Airlines?
"So many planes; so little time..."
 
audidudi
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 4:16 pm

An ex-DL B763ER, N1501P, is now on the move after it's retirement from DL's fleet, and will become a freighter. I wonder why it was retired in the first place if it wasn't ready to be scrapped? (info from skyliner-aviation.de).

Boeing 767-3P6 24983 334 N409AZ Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 30 April 2019 SBD-ILN, old N-reg prior freighter conversion ex-N1501P

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1501P
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 5:12 pm

audidudi wrote:
An ex-DL B763ER, N1501P, is now on the move after it's retirement from DL's fleet, and will become a freighter. I wonder why it was retired in the first place if it wasn't ready to be scrapped? (info from skyliner-aviation.de).

Boeing 767-3P6 24983 334 N409AZ Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 30 April 2019 SBD-ILN, old N-reg prior freighter conversion ex-N1501P

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1501P


All of the 763's are being replaced by A332's and A339's as they come online.

There probably won't be any left in 5 years - same goes with the whole 752 fleet.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 11:02 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
All of the 763's are being replaced by A332's and A339's as they come online.
There probably won't be any left in 5 years - same goes with the whole 752 fleet.

Slow down there cowboy. #1 there hasn't been an 332 delivered to Delta since 2006. #2 yes Delta are replacing SOME 763ERs with 339s but the pace is slow and strategic. There are 56x 763ERs left in the fleet. There are 17x 339s to be delivered in next 3 years, replacing 763ERs on a basically one-for-one basis. Some 763ERS will eventually be replaced by Boeing's MOM or the A321XLR. The youngest 763ERs are 18 years old and have 10+ years remaining.

You're looking at 4x 763ER to be retired during W19-20. Namely 171/172/174/175. So 12 months from now, there will be 52x 763ERs left in the fleet.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 8:28 pm

The first "new" UPS 767-300F since 2013 after paint (and still without winglets ?)

L/N 1180, N365UP, KPAE, May 02th 2019
Image

Original uploaded by Jennifer Schuld at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/11 ... 4090250240
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 8:58 pm

747classic wrote:
The first "new" UPS 767-300F since 2013 after paint (and still without winglets?)


For past UPS 763F deliveries, winglets were installed after delivery at an MRO facility so I assume that is the case with these new frames, as well.
 
dcs921
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Thu May 02, 2019 10:17 pm

Except for the 3 763BCF. AKAIK UPS has no plans to add the winglets to them.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sun May 05, 2019 8:10 am

UPS B767-300F N365UP is scheduled for a certification ground test of the first, factory installed, Rockwell Collins Large Format Display system (according UPS spec's) May 5 on the Everett flightline

Image

Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see: https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/11 ... 5438039041

The current UPS 767 (and 757) fleet is also upgraded to the same Rockwell Collins Large Display System (LDS)
A total of 62 UPS 767-300's will be (are already) upgraded.
See : https://www.aviationtoday.com/2017/05/0 ... -cockpits/
And : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxi1KNqNN4s
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sun May 05, 2019 8:38 am

747classic wrote:
The current UPS 767 (and 757) fleet is also upgraded to the same Rockwell Collins Large Display System (LDS)
A total of 62 UPS 767-300's will be (are already) upgraded.


The 767s are being done at ILN. I think they're currently on the second one.

The 757s are being done somewhere else.
 
Elshad
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sun May 05, 2019 9:09 am

Are new build 767s now being fitted with LCDs at the factory? I saw a video of one being built a only a few years ago and it was still being fitted with CRTs.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sun May 05, 2019 3:46 pm

Elshad wrote:
Are new build 767s now being fitted with LCDs at the factory? I saw a video of one being built a only a few years ago and it was still being fitted with CRTs.


They’re doing the certification (see above) because this is the first one. The certification done for refit on 767’s in the fleet doesn’t apply to new builds.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sun May 05, 2019 4:41 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
Elshad wrote:
Are new build 767s now being fitted with LCDs at the factory? I saw a video of one being built a only a few years ago and it was still being fitted with CRTs.


They’re doing the certification (see above) because this is the first one. The certification done for refit on 767’s in the fleet doesn’t apply to new builds.

A refit certification is a superset of what is required from the factory. Once certified, these will be factory delivered.

Lightsaber
You know nothing John Snow.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Sun May 05, 2019 6:10 pm

wjcandee wrote:
747classic wrote:
The current UPS 767 (and 757) fleet is also upgraded to the same Rockwell Collins Large Display System (LDS)
A total of 62 UPS 767-300's will be (are already) upgraded.

The 767s are being done at ILN. I think they're currently on the second one.
The 757s are being done somewhere else.


Cascade Aerospace at YXX. They do a lot of Rockwell Collins avionics (and other electronics) upgrades, including for the Canadian and Mexican military. Still, this will be a nice contract for them.

The IS&S FPDS upgrade was designed to be fairly-plug-compatible. The Rockwell Collins one seems to be more robust but also to require more labor and training. It also relocates quite a few warning/info lights on the panel. (IS&S had a concept to replace the EICAS CRTs, but I don't think they ever certified it, so the Rockwell Collins solution dumps two more CRTs than IS&S does.)
 
audidudi
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 6:26 pm

The next B763F for FedEx, N296FE, was delivered on May 3rd. Interesting that this is a totally out-of-sequence registration, but there were two others that were delivered back in February 2015 ...N297FE and N298FE! Also this latest frame is listed on planespotters.net as a B767-300F(ER), whereas all the other new build frames are listed as B767-3S2F(ER)s. Only N297FE and N298FE are listed as B767-32LF(ER)s.
 
jagraham
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Tue May 07, 2019 10:49 pm

lightsaber wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Elshad wrote:
Are new build 767s now being fitted with LCDs at the factory? I saw a video of one being built a only a few years ago and it was still being fitted with CRTs.


They’re doing the certification (see above) because this is the first one. The certification done for refit on 767’s in the fleet doesn’t apply to new builds.

A refit certification is a superset of what is required from the factory. Once certified, these will be factory delivered.

Lightsaber


The KC46s have a new flightdeck from Rockwell Collins

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... it-details
 
wjcandee
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 12:12 am

jagraham wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:

They’re doing the certification (see above) because this is the first one. The certification done for refit on 767’s in the fleet doesn’t apply to new builds.

A refit certification is a superset of what is required from the factory. Once certified, these will be factory delivered.

Lightsaber


The KC46s have a new flightdeck from Rockwell Collins

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... it-details


Very different from the retrofit Collins display being installed at UPS and elsewhere.
 
jagraham
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 2:47 am

wjcandee wrote:
jagraham wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
A refit certification is a superset of what is required from the factory. Once certified, these will be factory delivered.

Lightsaber


The KC46s have a new flightdeck from Rockwell Collins

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... it-details


Very different from the retrofit Collins display being installed at UPS and elsewhere.


Understood. But there is a new certified flightdeck already. Why didn't UPS and the others adapt it? For that matter, why didn't Boeing offer it on the 763s once they got it done for the KC46?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 3:20 am

Jag, good question. Maybe has commercially-unnecessary or secret features? Didn't mean my comment to seem snitty; I just looked at pix of the two and noticed they were very different, which I didn't know until I did so and figured others also might not know that either.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 3:31 am

TzvikaPick wrote:
El Al is selling used 767-300ER to a foreign airline
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-a ... 1001282185
That might be 4x-eak, AFAIK the only 767 owned by ElAl and not leased.


The one they owned was 4X-EAP, which is an 8-door frame. That was sold to the co-owner of Eastern Airlines (2D). It has different engines from the RR-powered 2D fleet, but I would not be surprised to see this end up in Eastern colors unless used as a parts frame to support the Eastern fleet.

As for DL, the ones needing replacement soon are the remainder of ships 171-184, 1402 (the last non-ER in the fleet), and the 6-door examples (N394DL would be an oddball once the ex-GF B763s are finally retired). This is basically the oldest 18 plus N394DL. That said, DL will fly them until they can no longer fly as all of the B763s (and B764s) at DL are owned.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 4:38 am

jagraham wrote:
Understood. But there is a new certified flightdeck already. Why didn't UPS and the others adapt it? For that matter, why didn't Boeing offer it on the 763s once they got it done for the KC46?


The design adopted by FedEx and UPS is designed for both the 757 and 767 and uses three displays. The KC-46A is modeled on the 787 and uses four displays. It is possible that the KC-46A cockpit is too complex and/or expensive to retrofit on the 757 and the already-built 767 fleet.
 
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yochai
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 7:13 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
TzvikaPick wrote:
El Al is selling used 767-300ER to a foreign airline
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-a ... 1001282185
That might be 4x-eak, AFAIK the only 767 owned by ElAl and not leased.


The one they owned was 4X-EAP, which is an 8-door frame. That was sold to the co-owner of Eastern Airlines (2D). It has different engines from the RR-powered 2D fleet, but I would not be surprised to see this end up in Eastern colors unless used as a parts frame to support the Eastern fleet.

As for DL, the ones needing replacement soon are the remainder of ships 171-184, 1402 (the last non-ER in the fleet), and the 6-door examples (N394DL would be an oddball once the ex-GF B763s are finally retired). This is basically the oldest 18 plus N394DL. That said, DL will fly them until they can no longer fly as all of the B763s (and B764s) at DL are owned.


Aircraft in question is 4XEAJ, currently stored in TLV since February 3rd 2019.
 
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yochai
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 7:14 am

audidudi wrote:
An ex-DL B763ER, N1501P, is now on the move after it's retirement from DL's fleet, and will become a freighter. I wonder why it was retired in the first place if it wasn't ready to be scrapped? (info from skyliner-aviation.de).

Boeing 767-3P6 24983 334 N409AZ Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 30 April 2019 SBD-ILN, old N-reg prior freighter conversion ex-N1501P

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1501P


Scheduled into TLV for freighter conversion on Friday morning if all goes according to plan.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 8:51 am

audidudi wrote:
An ex-DL B763ER, N1501P, is now on the move after it's retirement from DL's fleet, and will become a freighter. I wonder why it was retired in the first place if it wasn't ready to be scrapped? (info from skyliner-aviation.de).

Boeing 767-3P6 24983 334 N409AZ Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 30 April 2019 SBD-ILN, old N-reg prior freighter conversion ex-N1501P

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1501P


Last recorded flight hours of N1501P : 114.206 (21.501 cycles) at 9/10/2017 and WFU at Nov 30th 2017, see : http://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx (and enter 1501P)

The aircraft will be operated by Amazon Prime Air and used at relative short stretches.

B767-300(F) Limit of Validity : 150.000 hours/ 60.000 cycles.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Elshad
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 9:10 am

Stitch wrote:
jagraham wrote:
Understood. But there is a new certified flightdeck already. Why didn't UPS and the others adapt it? For that matter, why didn't Boeing offer it on the 763s once they got it done for the KC46?


The design adopted by FedEx and UPS is designed for both the 757 and 767 and uses three displays. The KC-46A is modeled on the 787 and uses four displays. It is possible that the KC-46A cockpit is too complex and/or expensive to retrofit on the 757 and the already-built 767 fleet.


Retrofitting the four KC-46 / 787 displays would require moving the gear level and various other things etc.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 12:14 pm

yochai wrote:
audidudi wrote:
An ex-DL B763ER, N1501P, is now on the move after it's retirement from DL's fleet, and will become a freighter. I wonder why it was retired in the first place if it wasn't ready to be scrapped? (info from skyliner-aviation.de).

Boeing 767-3P6 24983 334 N409AZ Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 30 April 2019 SBD-ILN, old N-reg prior freighter conversion ex-N1501P

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1501P


Scheduled into TLV for freighter conversion on Friday morning if all goes according to plan.


Given that N409AZ has less than 40,000 hours left of time, I'm surprised it didn't get scrapped. Then again, this could fly for about 10 years as a freighter before it ends up timing out. I wouldn't be surprised to see some B763s being retired just short of the limit of validity (150,000 hours). N409AZ has more than 110,000 hours on it. This frame will run out of hours before it runs out of cycles.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 12:41 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
yochai wrote:
audidudi wrote:
An ex-DL B763ER, N1501P, is now on the move after it's retirement from DL's fleet, and will become a freighter. I wonder why it was retired in the first place if it wasn't ready to be scrapped? (info from skyliner-aviation.de).

Boeing 767-3P6 24983 334 N409AZ Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 30 April 2019 SBD-ILN, old N-reg prior freighter conversion ex-N1501P

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1501P


Scheduled into TLV for freighter conversion on Friday morning if all goes according to plan.


Given that N409AZ has less than 40,000 hours left of time, I'm surprised it didn't get scrapped. Then again, this could fly for about 10 years as a freighter before it ends up timing out. I wouldn't be surprised to see some B763s being retired just short of the limit of validity (150,000 hours). N409AZ has more than 110,000 hours on it. This frame will run out of hours before it runs out of cycles.

I'm with you in the camp of being shocked anything with over 100,000 hours is converted. But apparently the demand is there. The airframes getting broken up lately are just the former ANA 300ER birds which are hitting cycle limits, the 767-281Fs from CAM which are hitting cycle limits, and the non-er and RR powered 300s which don't have a conversion program.

Even with heavy use, you'll probably not see much higher than 2000-2500 hours of freighter use per year, so this aircraft has probably closer to 20 years of service after conversion possible. It's just going to have fun aging airframe issues while doing it, but CAM seems to be able to mitigate that just fine for now. I'm sure the accountants have run the numbers.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 12:52 pm

Spacepope wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
yochai wrote:

Scheduled into TLV for freighter conversion on Friday morning if all goes according to plan.


Given that N409AZ has less than 40,000 hours left of time, I'm surprised it didn't get scrapped. Then again, this could fly for about 10 years as a freighter before it ends up timing out. I wouldn't be surprised to see some B763s being retired just short of the limit of validity (150,000 hours). N409AZ has more than 110,000 hours on it. This frame will run out of hours before it runs out of cycles.

I'm with you in the camp of being shocked anything with over 100,000 hours is converted. But apparently the demand is there. The airframes getting broken up lately are just the former ANA 300ER birds which are hitting cycle limits, the 767-281Fs from CAM which are hitting cycle limits, and the non-er and RR powered 300s which don't have a conversion program.

Even with heavy use, you'll probably not see much higher than 2000-2500 hours of freighter use per year, so this aircraft has probably closer to 20 years of service after conversion possible. It's just going to have fun aging airframe issues while doing it, but CAM seems to be able to mitigate that just fine for now. I'm sure the accountants have run the numbers.


NH has not retired any B763(ER) frames...only -300(non-ER). All of their direct ordered B763(ER) frames are in service (including one for HD) as passenger frames or converted to freighter (8 have been converted).
 
jagraham
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 1:13 pm

Elshad wrote:
Stitch wrote:
jagraham wrote:
Understood. But there is a new certified flightdeck already. Why didn't UPS and the others adapt it? For that matter, why didn't Boeing offer it on the 763s once they got it done for the KC46?


The design adopted by FedEx and UPS is designed for both the 757 and 767 and uses three displays. The KC-46A is modeled on the 787 and uses four displays. It is possible that the KC-46A cockpit is too complex and/or expensive to retrofit on the 757 and the already-built 767 fleet.


Retrofitting the four KC-46 / 787 displays would require moving the gear level and various other things etc.


Understood with regards to retrofit, although it would be easier to move the displays. They are not that big . . I also wonder what the cost difference between the two flightdecks are?
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7584
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 4:22 pm

RE the tanker flight deck: At some point, might human factors issues arise that require more-significant training on the differences than the airlines would like? For example, it's one thing to move the warning lights to just above the displays, as the 3-display version does; maybe to the FAA it's another to eliminate them completely, as the 4-display version does?

It is also possible that the 4-display version takes advantage of other changes in the construction/design of the tanker; this retrofit (as does the IS&S version) likely tries to minimize changes in the equipment bay and uses the existing wiring, etc., that goes into that bay. (The IS&S version, for example, has "data concentrator units" that swap into certain positions in the electronics bay with plug-compatible fittings, and tries to use the existing wiring as much as possible.)
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Wed May 08, 2019 5:02 pm

The KC-46A avionics and other (military) systems are communicating according ARINC 664. The avionics wiring and most other wiring has completely changed for that purpose.
AFAIK on the civil 767 the old basic ARINC 429 is still valid, only partly updated to a higher standard.

See : https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... it-details
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
JohnO67
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Thu May 09, 2019 8:25 pm

According to the AWL document, the LOV of a 767-300BCF is 75,000 Flight Cycles and 180,000 Flight Hours
The LOV of a 767-300F is 60,000 Flight Cycles and 180,000 Flight Hours.

So, it a bit closer to 70,000 flight hours left. Quite a bit of life for a freighter.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7584
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2019

Thu May 09, 2019 10:56 pm

JohnO67 wrote:
According to the AWL document, the LOV of a 767-300BCF is 75,000 Flight Cycles and 180,000 Flight Hours
The LOV of a 767-300F is 60,000 Flight Cycles and 180,000 Flight Hours.

So, it a bit closer to 70,000 flight hours left. Quite a bit of life for a freighter.


How about the 767-300BDSF? Do you have a link to the AWL document? I would like to have it in my library.

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