YVR has US CBP pre-clearance, lucky pax on a B789.

usxguy wrote:

OGG is gonna get its first 787-9 today... AC 537 is inbound from YVR

UA also sent a 77W in from SFO today as well. Very interesting day at OGG.

77H

The MAX grounding will probably delay WN's second phase of Hawaii service.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/03/ ... 1946ee8967

New WN effect: HA starts OGG/SMF before WN's announced service.
Concurrently, HA and VA expand codeshares.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/04/ ... agreement/

WPvsMW wrote:

New WN effect: HA starts OGG/SMF before WN's announced service.
Concurrently, HA and VA expand codeshares.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/04/ ... agreement/

Once HA realized WN was serious about entering the market they updated their app (still has a long way to go), increased perks for their credit card and have implemented a number of new routes to counter WN.

I think HA is going to have to pull a AS or B6 and start codesharing with anyone who will have them to keep loads up. That is the one advantage they hold over WN who doesn’t codeshare. While HA has added flights to markets WN intends to enter they have downgauged several as well.
It might also be time for HA to rethink its position on TPAC connections vs simply being a to/from Hawaii airline.

The other advantage they have is the interisland market where frequency is every bit as crucial as price. Without basing aircraft in Hawaii, there is no way WN will be able to match HA on frequency.

77H

77H, agree on all points, but WN's interisland schedule will attract school teams, families visiting tutu, and other non-business pax who are very price sensitive.

I'm sure the following scenario is in the system in WN network planning: let HA have the rush hour interisland commuters, who have no interest in WN Rapid Rewards and want to maintain Pualani status on HA; rather, WN grows off-peak frequencies interisland, adding LIH and ITO. As interisland frequences grow, add more TPAC from CONUS. The unknown is belly cargo, esp. ex-ITO TPAC. Papaya, flowers, and other ag cargo could be important enough ex-ITO to make ITO a gateway, maybe starting 3x weekly.

I think HA should use some Dreamliners for S.Am. to N.E. Asia (odd to use the British colonial term for an area that is N.W. of Hawaii), scissored at HNL. My friends in network planning give me a WTF grimace at that idea, but HA needs to be bold, because WN is not AQ or WP. WN could not match such LH WB service.

In response to WN's entry into interisland, HA is trying to poach WN loyalists on the W. Coast... similar to WN's trying to poach interisland traffic from HA. Who will be more successful at poaching?

WN is playing it safe. Remember, the last "entrant" into the interisland market was a bit of a flop (Mokulele E170s) with lots and lots of frequency in LIH/OGG and not enough to KOA/ITO where they already had brand awareness.

my bet: WN will be increasing inter-island services a few notches in the next schedule release. I think we'll see KOA & OGG up to 6 or 7 a day before they add in LIH/ITO. The number folks are watching everything like a hawk....

usxguy wrote:

WN is playing it safe. Remember, the last "entrant" into the interisland market was a bit of a flop (Mokulele E170s) with lots and lots of frequency in LIH/OGG and not enough to KOA/ITO where they already had brand awareness.

my bet: WN will be increasing inter-island services a few notches in the next schedule release. I think we'll see KOA & OGG up to 6 or 7 a day before they add in LIH/ITO. The number folks are watching everything like a hawk....

I think WN will go ahead and add the final LIH,SMF and SAN service in June or July.
But with the current MAX8 grounding it will be less robust than originally planned.
I see LIH starting simple like KOA with just 4 Daily LIH-HNL flights.
SAN and SMF will be just a Daily flight to HNL with connections to OGG,LIH and KOA.

Once the MAX8 is back in service I think the November 3,2019 to January 4, 2020 Extension will see the remaining delayed 2019 summer expansion.
Will ITO be added into game on the year end release? My guess probably NOT. I'm gonna guess spring 2020.
Same can be said for anything other than the 4 original markets. The other markets like LAX,LAS,PHX and DEN pushed to summer 2020.
The big money maker I'm told for Hawaii inter island flights will be Inter Island freight contracts it's getting established.

Flyguy

WPvsMW wrote:

I think HA should use some Dreamliners for S.Am. to N.E. Asia (odd to use the British colonial term for an area that is N.W. of Hawaii), scissored at HNL. My friends in network planning give me a WTF grimace at that idea, but HA needs to be bold, because WN is not AQ or WP. WN could not match such LH WB service.

There are two key problems with trying to address that market: (1) It's pretty tiny and probably not large enough to support a scissor hub at HNL. (2) For just about everywhere in East Asia apart from Japan and the Russian Far East, it's shorter to go the other way via IST or DXB -- and Honolulu isn't exactly a low-cost place to do business. The Pacific is really, really big.

wnflyguy wrote:

Once the MAX8 is back in service I think the November 3,2019 to January 4, 2020 Extension will see the remaining delayed 2019 summer expansion.

Ironically the delayed ETOPS approval might have been a blessing in disguise; imagine the disruption if they had published 20 or 30 aircraft worth of flying to Hawaii.

wnflyguy wrote:

The big money maker I'm told for Hawaii inter island flights will be Inter Island freight contracts it's getting established.
Flyguy

Yes, WN belly cargo is going to hurt HA, KH (Aeko Kula, Inc. DBA Aloha Air Cargo), and TransAir, but N.I. consumers will benefit, esp. perishables from the mainland .... and Amazon Prime customers. Prime Air will get the goods to HNL, then sorted and dispatched interisland.

ScottB wrote:

There are two key problems with trying to address that market: (1) It's pretty tiny and probably not large enough to support a scissor hub at HNL.

First to market. If the PDEW pencils out, 2 block hours shorter, not counting LAX delays, will pull premium traffic.

ScottB wrote:

There are two key problems with trying to address that market: ((2) For just about everywhere in East Asia apart from Japan and the Russian Far East, it's shorter to go the other way via IST or DXB ...

Wrong. A scissor in HNL is shorter than via LAX from, e.g., SCL, and shorter even than EZE-LAX-NRT. GRU-LAX-NRT is ~300 miles shorter than GRU-HNL-NRT. With a small delta in block hours, connection time would drive booking. Scissoring through LAX and HNL is shorter than through IST or DXB.

HA could own the city-pairs... made for the Dreamliner. A mini-DXB.EK strategy.

http://www.gcmap.com

WPvsMW wrote:

ScottB wrote:

apart from Japan and the Russian Far East

Wrong. A scissor in HNL is shorter than via LAX from, e.g., SCL, and shorter even than EZE-LAX-NRT. GRU-LAX-NRT is ~300 miles shorter than GRU-HNL-NRT. With a small delta in block hours, connection time would drive booking. Scissoring through LAX and HNL is shorter than through IST or DXB.

One would expect that if they saw a meaningful business opportunity, LA would already be flying SCL-HNL and feeding traffic to its alliance partner, JL, at HNL. But in any event, the entire population of Chile is maybe 20% larger than that of the São Paulo region, and the big traffic prize to South America is Brazil. To Brazil, you're much better off going west unless coming from Japan or the Russian Far East.

And there's still the much higher costs of operating a hub at HNL than at DXB or IST.

WPvsMW wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

The big money maker I'm told for Hawaii inter island flights will be Inter Island freight contracts it's getting established.
Flyguy

Yes, WN belly cargo is going to hurt HA, KH (Aeko Kula, Inc. DBA Aloha Air Cargo), and TransAir, but N.I. consumers will benefit, esp. perishables from the mainland .... and Amazon Prime customers. Prime Air will get the goods to HNL, then sorted and dispatched interisland.

What belly cargo?? A 737 is hardly hauling any cargo, except mail and maybe some COMAT. A WN 737 is likely very full of bags since they are free so definitely no room to haul produce or anything of the sort.

Hawaiian, for its part, can still haul cargo from the Bay Area and LAX because of the A330. Can't speak to the cargo folks but I don't see how they would be affected

The interisland market and TPAC market are different.

ScottB wrote:

And there's still the much higher costs of operating a hub at HNL than at DXB or IST.

Conveniently, HA already has a hub at HNL.

Why is there so much talk about WN delaying mainland service when they don't have any 7M8s ETOPS certified? Only their 738s are. I'm sure we will see them eventually get ETOPS certification on their 7M8s.
Perhaps WN will also have some of their 73Gs ETOPS certified for routes like OAK-ITO in which the 738s may have too much capacity?

WPvsMW wrote:

The interisland market and TPAC market are different.

Not sure how that matters. Unless a 737 can carry pallets of material (and I don't know they can or can't admittedly...), I do not see how this affects anything.

While BOS spotters are eagerly awaiting the flight tomorrow, I just get the sense it’s too much plane for the market...even less than daily. Will this be a candidate for the 787 once they get it?

laca773 wrote:

Why is there so much talk about WN delaying mainland service when they don't have any 7M8s ETOPS certified? Only their 738s are. I'm sure we will see them eventually get ETOPS certification on their 7M8s.
Perhaps WN will also have some of their 73Gs ETOPS certified for routes like OAK-ITO in which the 738s may have too much capacity?

Their 738s probably cannot get out of OGG unrestricted, so there may be OGG routes where they need or want the MAX.

WPvsMW wrote:

77H, agree on all points, but WN's interisland schedule will attract school teams, families visiting tutu, and other non-business pax who are very price sensitive.

I'm sure the following scenario is in the system in WN network planning: let HA have the rush hour interisland commuters, who have no interest in WN Rapid Rewards and want to maintain Pualani status on HA; rather, WN grows off-peak frequencies interisland, adding LIH and ITO. As interisland frequences grow, add more TPAC from CONUS. The unknown is belly cargo, esp. ex-ITO TPAC. Papaya, flowers, and other ag cargo could be important enough ex-ITO to make ITO a gateway, maybe starting 3x weekly.

I think HA should use some Dreamliners for S.Am. to N.E. Asia (odd to use the British colonial term for an area that is N.W. of Hawaii), scissored at HNL. My friends in network planning give me a WTF grimace at that idea, but HA needs to be bold, because WN is not AQ or WP. WN could not match such LH WB service.

In response to WN's entry into interisland, HA is trying to poach WN loyalists on the W. Coast... similar to WN's trying to poach interisland traffic from HA. Who will be more successful at poaching?

Op
By way of disclosure, I grew up in Hawaii but haven't lived there in years. However, I am in a Southwest stronghold area, so know both Southwest and Hawaiian well. Southwest is (a) NOT a ULLC, but rather a mature LLC which is not usually a price leader any more. Don't expect any low fares out of them, compared to anybody else, especially inter island. (b) There are people (a LOT of people) who avoid Southwest because of their open seating, and (c) assuming that the Hawaiian Barclay credit card relationship, probably one bag is free(??), the two included bags may not turn out to be a big deal when going to visit Tutu on Maui or going to court in Lihue.

Hawaiian will do just fine, just as they have been doing with Alaska's build up to/from Hawaii over the past years. They have a unique product, and appeal to a different market segment. And the people who are price sensitive will compare both, and may well find that Southwest is no cheaper than Hawaiian. if that's the case, they'll stick with Pualani.

EK77WNH wrote:

While BOS spotters are eagerly awaiting the flight tomorrow, I just get the sense it’s too much plane for the market...even less than daily. Will this be a candidate for the 787 once they get it?

You bet your booties. The network planners at HA are akamai.

superjeff wrote:

...the people who are price sensitive will compare both, and may well find that Southwest is no cheaper than Hawaiian. if that's the case, they'll stick with Pualani.

But now there is competition again, and all WN would have to do to get a jump is to introduce coupon books, discounted six segments or 12 segments. Locals love coupon books and coupon books would quickly make Southwest seem local.

laca773 wrote:

Why is there so much talk about WN delaying mainland service when they don't have any 7M8s ETOPS certified? Only their 738s are. I'm sure we will see them eventually get ETOPS certification on their 7M8s.
Perhaps WN will also have some of their 73Gs ETOPS certified for routes like OAK-ITO in which the 738s may have too much capacity?

WN is using the sub fleet of ETOPS NG800s they we're going to use for Hawaii spring and summer expansion to cover grounded MAX8 domestic flights. So the 2nd Bigger Hawaii expansion is scaled back Until the MAX8 returns to domestic flying.

I believe WN had planned to get certification For both the MAX8 and MAX7 in the 3ed Quarter 2019.
With a mix transition for Hawaii service in November and December.
But my understanding with the MAX grounding Etops certification has been pushed to 2020.

Flyguy

WPvsMW wrote:

superjeff wrote:

...the people who are price sensitive will compare both, and may well find that Southwest is no cheaper than Hawaiian. if that's the case, they'll stick with Pualani.

But now there is competition again, and all WN would have to do to get a jump is to introduce coupon books, discounted six segments or 12 segments. Locals love coupon books and coupon books would quickly make Southwest seem local.

The Locals also remember Aloha. They'll support the local carrier, which is Hawaiian over Southwest. Yes,Southwest will get some business, but I would think that Hawaiian will retain the lion's share of the local business.

Of course... HA is the incumbent, but HA's move the LCC seating on the B712s will make WN the carrier of choice for "plus size" folks in Hawaii.

WPvsMW wrote:

superjeff wrote:

...the people who are price sensitive will compare both, and may well find that Southwest is no cheaper than Hawaiian. if that's the case, they'll stick with Pualani.

But now there is competition again, and all WN would have to do to get a jump is to introduce coupon books, discounted six segments or 12 segments. Locals love coupon books and coupon books would quickly make Southwest seem local.

Does HA still sell coupon books? I thought something about 9/11 & the new laws created afterwards, makes me think those were discontinued in their current form, with no names etc ... I lived on Oahu during the days of Mahalo Air & I worked for Regal Travel, we sold thousands of them & you are correct, people loved them. I remember getting discount vouchers from a local grocery store, it was the best.

A couple years buying HA coupon books came with a mainland r/t voucher & if you were an AAdvantage gold member, when AA & HA had a tie in & HA was flying their old DC-10's, I got a free one leg upgrade on any mainland flight.

Hawaiian had an all-you-can-jet type plan, I'm not sure what happened to it. But no one offers coupon books or prepaid travel (by the segment) anymore.

WPvsMW wrote:

Of course... HA is the incumbent, but HA's move the LCC seating on the B712s will make WN the carrier of choice for "plus size" folks in Hawaii.

How so? Aren't the seats wider on the 717? Per Seatguru, 18" width on the 717 vs 17" width on WN's 737s. And, HA gives you the option of buying a First Class seat if coach seats are truly too small.

WPvsMW wrote:

Of course... HA is the incumbent, but HA's move the LCC seating on the B712s will make WN the carrier of choice for "plus size" folks in Hawaii.

I don’t follow? What about HA’s interisland fleet is LCC-esque? So far as I know the legroom is the same and the seats are ina fixed reclined angle. I’ve seen side by side comparisons of the old seats reclined and the new seats standard and the angle is identical.

77H

WPvsMW wrote:

77H, agree on all points, but WN's interisland schedule will attract school teams, families visiting tutu, and other non-business pax who are very price sensitive.

I'm sure the following scenario is in the system in WN network planning: let HA have the rush hour interisland commuters, who have no interest in WN Rapid Rewards and want to maintain Pualani status on HA; rather, WN grows off-peak frequencies interisland, adding LIH and ITO. As interisland frequences grow, add more TPAC from CONUS. The unknown is belly cargo, esp. ex-ITO TPAC. Papaya, flowers, and other ag cargo could be important enough ex-ITO to make ITO a gateway, maybe starting 3x weekly.

I think HA should use some Dreamliners for S.Am. to N.E. Asia (odd to use the British colonial term for an area that is N.W. of Hawaii), scissored at HNL. My friends in network planning give me a WTF grimace at that idea, but HA needs to be bold, because WN is not AQ or WP. WN could not match such LH WB service.

In response to WN's entry into interisland, HA is trying to poach WN loyalists on the W. Coast... similar to WN's trying to poach interisland traffic from HA. Who will be more successful at poaching?

Most ITO origin products are flown or barged over to HNL for uplift to the mainland or international destinations. Some shippers will take the Saddle road over to KOA to make use of the larger capacity offering. UA already serves ITO and doesn’t provide general cargo services.

As for the 737s cargo capabilities to/from the mainland, I can tell you all the airlines currently running 737s into Hawaii take cargo, granted, it’s not much. I’d argue WN is going to have a tough go with cargo unless they change their baggage policy to and from Hawaii. I work in Cargo locally and I’m not the least bit concerned about WN stealing market share. What I am nervous about is the probability that WN’s entry into the market will drive downgauges which inevitably impacts cargo.

77H

wnflyguy wrote:

usxguy wrote:

WN is playing it safe. Remember, the last "entrant" into the interisland market was a bit of a flop (Mokulele E170s) with lots and lots of frequency in LIH/OGG and not enough to KOA/ITO where they already had brand awareness.

my bet: WN will be increasing inter-island services a few notches in the next schedule release. I think we'll see KOA & OGG up to 6 or 7 a day before they add in LIH/ITO. The number folks are watching everything like a hawk....

I think WN will go ahead and add the final LIH,SMF and SAN service in June or July.
But with the current MAX8 grounding it will be less robust than originally planned.
I see LIH starting simple like KOA with just 4 Daily LIH-HNL flights.
SAN and SMF will be just a Daily flight to HNL with connections to OGG,LIH and KOA.

Once the MAX8 is back in service I think the November 3,2019 to January 4, 2020 Extension will see the remaining delayed 2019 summer expansion.
Will ITO be added into game on the year end release? My guess probably NOT. I'm gonna guess spring 2020.
Same can be said for anything other than the 4 original markets. The other markets like LAX,LAS,PHX and DEN pushed to summer 2020.
The big money maker I'm told for Hawaii inter island flights will be Inter Island freight contracts it's getting established.

Flyguy

I assume based on the real world performance data WN has for the 7M8 they are confident the plane can operate such stage lengths from hot and high DEN?

77H

77H wrote:

I don’t follow? What about HA’s interisland fleet is LCC-esque? So far as I know the legroom is the same and the seats are ina fixed reclined angle. I’ve seen side by side comparisons of the old seats reclined and the new seats standard and the angle is identical.

Probably the fact that the exact same seats are used on Frontier. Fixed recline and tiny tray tables fit the ULCC image, and they look cheap with the exposed plastic back. Even though HA isn't a ULCC, I can understand their thinking putting them on the 717 which operates exclusively such short flights with very limited service.

Frontier actually uses an upgraded version of the same seat for their "Stretch" extra legroom seats at the front of the plane, with a full size tray table, more padding, and adjustable recline. I did a transcon trip in those (SAN-COS-IAD and back) and they weren't bad.

Looks like Kahalui is getting a tram from the terminal to the brand new rental car area. I'd read about this before, but never seen what the cars will look like. If you'll click on the third photo in the linked Maui News article, there they are.

http://www.mauinews.com/news/local-news ... 9-opening/

I know most people will say that "progress" is a good thing in a great many cases, but I miss the dusty, quiet old Maui. I do wonder just how much more development Hawaii can sustain. An article on Fox News from a couple of weeks ago said that development and housing-wise, the islands were near their breaking points. Time will tell...

Aptivaboy wrote:

Looks like Kahalui is getting a tram from the terminal to the brand new rental car area. I'd read about this before, but never seen what the cars will look like. If you'll click on the third photo in the linked Maui News article, there they are.

http://www.mauinews.com/news/local-news ... 9-opening/

I know most people will say that "progress" is a good thing in a great many cases, but I miss the dusty, quiet old Maui. I do wonder just how much more development Hawaii can sustain. An article on Fox News from a couple of weeks ago said that development and housing-wise, the islands were near their breaking points. Time will tell...

The only reason why the islands are near their breaking point due to development and increased tourism is because our corrupt state and county governments squander tax money instead of using it on infrastructure to support the growth. Unfortunately, many locals blame tourist (the life blood of the economy) rather than our crooked politicians despite numerous concurrent federal investigations into high ranking members of local and state government.

77H

77H wrote:

WPvsMW wrote:

77H, agree on all points, but WN's interisland schedule will attract school teams, families visiting tutu, and other non-business pax who are very price sensitive.

I'm sure the following scenario is in the system in WN network planning: let HA have the rush hour interisland commuters, who have no interest in WN Rapid Rewards and want to maintain Pualani status on HA; rather, WN grows off-peak frequencies interisland, adding LIH and ITO. As interisland frequences grow, add more TPAC from CONUS. The unknown is belly cargo, esp. ex-ITO TPAC. Papaya, flowers, and other ag cargo could be important enough ex-ITO to make ITO a gateway, maybe starting 3x weekly.

I think HA should use some Dreamliners for S.Am. to N.E. Asia (odd to use the British colonial term for an area that is N.W. of Hawaii), scissored at HNL. My friends in network planning give me a WTF grimace at that idea, but HA needs to be bold, because WN is not AQ or WP. WN could not match such LH WB service.

In response to WN's entry into interisland, HA is trying to poach WN loyalists on the W. Coast... similar to WN's trying to poach interisland traffic from HA. Who will be more successful at poaching?

Most ITO origin products are flown or barged over to HNL for uplift to the mainland or international destinations. Some shippers will take the Saddle road over to KOA to make use of the larger capacity offering. UA already serves ITO and doesn’t provide general cargo services.

As for the 737s cargo capabilities to/from the mainland, I can tell you all the airlines currently running 737s into Hawaii take cargo, granted, it’s not much. I’d argue WN is going to have a tough go with cargo unless they change their baggage policy to and from Hawaii. I work in Cargo locally and I’m not the least bit concerned about WN stealing market share. What I am nervous about is the probability that WN’s entry into the market will drive downgauges which inevitably impacts cargo.

77H

My understanding is WN Hawaii cargo will be just its NFG product for inter island flights only. No Mainland to Hawaii cargo will be offered due to ETOPS weight restrictions.

Flyguy

Re: cargo to mainland. Guess who WN's forwarding agent is at HNL?
https://www.swacargo.com/swacargo_com_u ... rtCode=HNL

I think that will change...

WPvsMW wrote:

Re: cargo to mainland. Guess who WN's forwarding agent is at HNL?
https://www.swacargo.com/swacargo_com_u ... rtCode=HNL

I think that will change...

That is rich. Thanks for posting.

77H

WPvsMW wrote:

Re: cargo to mainland. Guess who WN's forwarding agent is at HNL?
https://www.swacargo.com/swacargo_com_u ... rtCode=HNL

I think that will change...

I believe WN has interlined cargo to HA for many years. I've seen a lot of cargo come in on HA flights with WN cargo labels originating in the Midwest or East Coast.

Perhaps WN will accept only over-the-counter NFG at its pax counter and keep HA as its agent for all other cargo.

https://abc7news.com/travel/report-sout ... p/5237134/
according to this, HI fares have dropped by 17% since WN entrance and I would personally expect this to go even further once they add more capacity out of SMF/SAN.

tphuang wrote:

https://abc7news.com/travel/report-southwest-airlines-hawaii-fares-cause-price-drop/5237134/
according to this, HI fares have dropped by 17% since WN entrance and I would personally expect this to go even further once they add more capacity out of SMF/SAN.

Consider that fares had dropped sub $300 r/t before WN announced their schedule even. Then consider WN sold a chunk of tickets for stupid low fares on their announcement day. SY has entered the Hawaii market with three west coast destinations. These factors along with multiple metrics that I am not even considering is why you are getting that percentage. It's not going to stay that low, very long.

RWA380 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

https://abc7news.com/travel/report-southwest-airlines-hawaii-fares-cause-price-drop/5237134/
according to this, HI fares have dropped by 17% since WN entrance and I would personally expect this to go even further once they add more capacity out of SMF/SAN.

Consider that fares had dropped sub $300 r/t before WN announced their schedule even. Then consider WN sold a chunk of tickets for stupid low fares on their announcement day. SY has entered the Hawaii market with three west coast destinations. These factors along with multiple metrics that I am not even considering is why you are getting that percentage. It's not going to stay that low, very long.

well, we will see how low it will get. But for 2018 vs 2017, we saw a lot of lower yields in the west coast to HI markets just from 5 to 10% additional ASM in the market (I've posted on this before). So now that WN is looking to dump even more than that, I would be surprised if things don't stay low for a long time.

tphuang wrote:

RWA380 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

https://abc7news.com/travel/report-southwest-airlines-hawaii-fares-cause-price-drop/5237134/
according to this, HI fares have dropped by 17% since WN entrance and I would personally expect this to go even further once they add more capacity out of SMF/SAN.

Consider that fares had dropped sub $300 r/t before WN announced their schedule even. Then consider WN sold a chunk of tickets for stupid low fares on their announcement day. SY has entered the Hawaii market with three west coast destinations. These factors along with multiple metrics that I am not even considering is why you are getting that percentage. It's not going to stay that low, very long.

well, we will see how low it will get. But for 2018 vs 2017, we saw a lot of lower yields in the west coast to HI markets just from 5 to 10% additional ASM in the market (I've posted on this before). So now that WN is looking to dump even more than that, I would be surprised if things don't stay low for a long time.

I see what you're saying & it's not that I disagree fares have gone down & fuel up, I just don't think it's going to be sustainable sub $300 r/t, someone will need to blink. That's lower than we were paying in the late 70's flying DC-10's & 747's.

Hey RWA380,

Here's Hawaiian's "e-Coupon" booklet flights..

https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/our-se ... ravel-plan

There was this very interesting article that I've since lost that talks about the issue facing Southwest customers flying to Hawaii from the east coast.
Because Southwest doesn't fly red eyes it creates an interesting problem of the traveler only being able to purchase a one-way ticket.

I know they have a new system that allows over-night flights. So no more technical excuses there. And they need to bring in more transcon flights to make this work.

Re: N.I. plans on HA. "What happens if I still have unused E-certificates when my Travel Plan expires? Like Cinderella’s carriage, they’ll disappear."
https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/our-se ... am-details

Been there and been burnt. No feasible flights available for several weeks before expiration. Do I want to take the 0600 departure for OGG? No... back to no plan and get the flights I want.

usxguy wrote:

Hey RWA380,

Here's Hawaiian's "e-Coupon" booklet flights..

https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/our-se ... ravel-plan

It makes sense for HA to have this program, It used to be on the AQ coupon books, there were different colors for the coupons, some fly/drive only but one got it for $99 r/t p.p.d.o. on the car, so 4 coupons & one, one day dollar rent a car voucher for $198.00 for two persons, those were gray & had to have the car coupon attatched.

Then the yellow passes were Y class travel, even the last seat on the plane you could use those, then other colors had different booking codes. IIRC, we only sold the blue coupons on HA which were unrestricted & we booked in Y class for any available flight. I guess with no name, no filled out origin & destination printed out, only circled. It was so easy back then . Thank you usxguy!

Makani Kai (non-member of IATA, no code) will launch HNL/HPV (Princeville, N. shore of Kauai) service on 01 May 2019 operating its 9-pax Piper Chieftain piston twins. By inference, their Cessna Grand Caravan twins can't operate from the 3,560 ft. strip at HPV with acceptable yields.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/04/ ... u-flights/
https://www.kitv.com/story/40325224/kau ... r-20-years

HPV was originally the home of Princeville Airways, which evolved into Island Air (RIP 2017), but stopped service to HPV almost 25 years ago. With the frequent closures of Prince Kuhio Hwy due to accidents, and the growth of Princeville development, the HNL/HPV service may survive.

WPvsMW wrote:

I've never seen a "covered boarding ramp" at any airport in Hawaii... but really, that boils down to KOA, which has no jetways. No service to MKK or MUE that needs a ramp.

HNL has jetways last time I checked. Might be wrong but KOA does not have anything but airstairs. MKK and MUE only take Mokulele I think.

WPvsMW wrote:

Makani Kai (non-member of IATA, no code) will launch HNL/HPV (Princeville, N. shore of Kauai) service on 01 May 2019 operating its 9-pax Piper Chieftain piston twins. By inference, their Cessna Grand Caravan twins can't operate from the 3,560 ft. strip at HPV with acceptable yields.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/04/ ... u-flights/
https://www.kitv.com/story/40325224/kau ... r-20-years

HPV was originally the home of Princeville Airways, which evolved into Island Air (RIP 2017), but stopped service to HPV almost 25 years ago. With the frequent closures of Prince Kuhio Hwy due to accidents, and the growth of Princeville development, the HNL/HPV service may survive.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but 2 errors here. A) C208s are NOT twins. B) According to Textron, Grand Carvan takeoff roll is 2,160 feet. So... Carvans CAN operate from HPV.