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JamesAlice
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:16 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 15, 2019 3:36 pm

How long does it take to test? Is it something that runs 24/7?
 
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RRUltrafan
Posts: 25
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 6:14 am

I'd assume that they would test the fuselage strength through increasing and decreasing pressure over different gradients and time scales. Then the wings will be tested, and due to the manpower that would need to be around to monitor the situation, i doubt that it will be running 24/7.
"Everything has an end, but, only the sausage has two" - Albert Einstein
 
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77west
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 6:35 am

I believe they continue to run the fatigue tests until well after EIS...
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
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747classic
Posts: 2520
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 6:36 am

JamesAlice wrote:
How long does it take to test? Is it something that runs 24/7?


According following Boeing video about B787 fatigue testing, the tests were performed 24/7 during 3 years to simulate 100.000 flightcycles.
See : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9k9fWaFrs
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu May 16, 2019 11:50 am

RRUltrafan wrote:
I'd assume that they would test the fuselage strength through increasing and decreasing pressure over different gradients and time scales. Then the wings will be tested, and due to the manpower that would need to be around to monitor the situation, i doubt that it will be running 24/7.


There are occasions when the wings get tested separately. But the final fatigue test is performed with fuselage and wing loads at the same time. The purpose is to simulate GAG with, just with an accelerated load profile. 24/7 with stoppage for inspection. There is not much manpower required to monitor the tests.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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mfranjic
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Mon May 20, 2019 7:07 pm


Image.According to the reports confirmed by several sources, the Image.777X’s engines have finished their flight tests, being tested in the Mojave desert aboard a modified Image.747-446 Propulsion Test Platform (PTP); MSN.26355 / LN 1024, reg. N747GF, replacing one of its four Image.CF6-80C2B1F, twin-shaft, high-bypass, turbofan engines (fan diameter: 2.362,0 mm / 93,0 in; BPR: (4,97-5,31):1; engine architecture: 1F+4LPC–14HPC2HPT–5LPT), OPR: (27,1-31,8):1, rated at 254,26 kN / 25.927 kgf / 57.160 lbf, with the new Image.GE9X-105B1A, twin-shaft, high-bypass, turbofan engine (fan diameter: 3.403,6 mm / 134,0 in; BPR: 10,0:1; engine architecture: 1F+3LPC–11HPC〧2HPT–6LPT), OPR: 61,0:1, rated at approximately 467,06 kN / 47.627 kgf / 105.000 lbf. The General Electric company acquired its Boeing 747-446 flying testbed from Japan Airlines (reg. JA8910), modified it (winglets have been removed), strengthened the aircraft’s wing and strut to accommodate test engines.

………Image

In January 2017 GE Aviation accomplished the last flight with their Image.747-121 Flying Test Bed; MSN.19651 / LN 25, reg. N747GE, powered by four Image.JT9D-7A, twin-shaft, high-bypass, turbofan engines (fan diameter: 2.340,0 mm / 92,3 in; BPR: 5,0:1; engine architecture: 1F+3LPC–11HPC2HPT–4LPT), OPR: 23,4:1, rated at 205,29 kN / 20.933 kgf / 46.150 lbf ( 212,05 kN / 21.623 kgf / 47.670 lbf with water injection ).

The General Electric company acquired its Boeing 747-121 flying testbed from Pan Am (reg. N744PA) in 1992, submitted it through the modifications like removing seats, strengthening the left wing and tail for flight testing and installing data systems. It began operations with General Electric in 1993 at its Flight Test Operation facility, which was then located in Mojave, California.

Image

Image above:.(Please click for a larger view).GE Aviation’s Image.747-121 Flying Test Bed during the testing of the Image.GE90-115B, twin-shaft, high-bypass, turbofan engines (fan diameter: 3.251,2 mm / 128,0 in; BPR: 9,0:1; engine architecture: 1F+4LPC–9HPC〧2HPT–6LPT), OPR: 42,0:1, rated at 513,95 kN / 52.408 kgf / 115.540 lbf. During the certification testing at GE's outdoor test facility in Ohio, in 2002, the GE90-115B, twin-shaft, high-bypass turbofan set a world record reaching 568,93 kN / 58.014 kgf / 127.900 lbf of thrust. The engine ran for approximately 60 hours at triple red-line conditions: maximum fan speed N1 - 2.617 rpm (111,1 %), maximum core speed N2 - 11.321 rpm (121,3 %) and maximum exhaust gas temperature EGT - 2.013 °F / 1.100,6 °C, all that to evaluate the engine at its operational limits.

The Image.747-121 Flying Test Bed, reg. N747GE, provided critical flight data on more than 11 distinct engine models and 39 engine builds, including widebody engines like the Image.GE90, Image.GEnx and the Image.GP7200, Image.CF34 engines for regional jets, narrow body engines like Image.CFM56 and Image.LEAP, and the Image.Passport for the business aviation. With General Electric, the historic Boeing 747 aircraft completed more than 3.600 flight hours and 775 cycles before its final flight in January 2017. Even it got a new livery in 2015, replacing the GE Aircraft Engines’s old paint scheme with the GE Aviation’s …

In 2016 the first Image.GE9X test engine completed its test runs. In 375 cycles it completed 335 hours of testing that were including evaluation of performance during water ingestion, overheating, crosswinds, blade out, hailstorm testing, icing tests, bird ingestion, block or endurance testing and testing in extremely cold temperatures. The company's first round of Image.GE9X airborne testing was delayed more than two months in 2018 after engineers discovered unexpected wear on "lever arms" that alter the pitch of vanes inside the engine's compressor. The engine finally got airborne in March 2018 when General Electric began an initial round of airborne tests that lasted until early May. That round involved 18 flights and 105 hours of flight time, allowing GE to study high-altitude performance and to compare performance during cruise to ground-test data.

Image

GE Aviation’s GE9X, twin-shaft, high-bypass, turbofan engine, aimed for the propulsion of the future Image.777-8 /-9 aircraft (MTOW: 775.000 lb / 351.534 kg), returned to the skies on 10. Dec 2018 for a second round of airborne testing during which the engine maker evaluated the powerplant’s software and performance in hot-and-high conditions. Testing concluded following 18 flights and 320 flight test hours.

The test Image.777X aircraft; MSN 64240 / LN 1567, reg. N779XW, powered by two Image.GE9X-105B1A, twin-shaft, high-bypass, turbofan engines (fan diameter: 3.403,6 mm / 134,0 in; BPR: 10,0:1; engine architecture: 1F+3LPC–11HPC〧2HPT–6LPT), OPR: 61,0:1, rated at approximately 467,06 kN / 47.627 kgf / 105.000 lbf is in the process of preparing to begin a series of testing, expected to take its first flight later this spring. Following this testing, it is expected of receiving 2019 certification and entering the service in late 2020 with Emirates as the launch cutomer. The aircarft become well known for its new folding wingtips, which fold up to reduce the aircraft’s wingspan when it’s on the ground. However, when the aircraft is flying, they are folded out to increase the lift generated.

Image

GE Aviation also plans to develop the versions of the GE9X turbofan engine with 93.000 lbf and 102.000 lbf of thrust, according to regulatory filings with the FAA. Those engines could power the other Image.777X aircraft variants…
……
…….GE9X-105B1A
…….GE9X-105B1A1
…….GE9X-105B1A2
…….GE9X-105B1A3
…….GE9X-102B1A
…….GE9X-102B1A1
…….GE9X-102B1A2
…….GE9X-102B1A3
…….GE9X-93B1A

Mario
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
 
xwb777
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue May 21, 2019 8:30 pm

When will Emirates B779 enter production?
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2391
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Tue May 21, 2019 8:37 pm

xwb777 wrote:
When will Emirates B779 enter production?


I believe EK's first frame is in final assembly right now, but it might be
one of the test frames and won't be the fist copy delivered to EK.

Looking forward to seeing EK's B779's at DFW : )
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 12:27 am

First frame for Emirates is about to begin final assembly. 2nd frame already has the Emirates colors on the wingtips and tail. Looks really good. Gonna be some official pictures soon
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 1:36 am

Lightsaber posted the following in the A220 thread
Never mind, I see fatigue testing complete and testing for residual strength.
https://www.iabg.de/en/news-events/deta ... 00-fluege/

Note: 3x in lab = 1x certified

So new testing will have to start for a longer life. I'd bet, if a few hundred more sell, that new tests start.

Note that this data supported MTOW increase. I would bet new test sections are built. But at a certified life of 15,000 cycles and about 23,000 hours per year of testing, We are talking about starting an 8+ year effort.

Lightsaber


It takes years but after the first few months of testing it is probably unmanned on nights and weekends. If 100 cycles per day that is 1,800 days or 5 years. So they were at more like 150 per day to finish in 3 years. Probably an 8 hour shift per week off for the inspections.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 2:11 am

Shouldn’t first flight have happened by now?!
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
majano
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 7:01 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
Shouldn’t first flight have happened by now?!

I have followed this thread and the roll-out thread religiously. The most repeated yet unanswered question has been when is the first flight date. There was a date of 13 April mentioned, but I could get people out of a job by mentioning it.

The aircraft was unveiled "internally" just over two months ago and commenced ground testing immediately. Fuel tests took place about a month ago. So, my question would be - how soon after roll-out or unveiling have first flights happened historically? Secondly, if EIS is planned for some time in 2020, when should first flight happen to meet the EIS date? This depends very much on the length of the flight testing programme which is not in the public domain. A long winded way of saying no one, other than Boeing, knows whether first flight should have happened by now.
 
OldAeroGuy
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:50 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 5:52 pm

The initial 777 roll out to first flight was a little over 2 months.

From Wikipedia:

"On April 9, 1994, the first 777, line number WA001, was rolled out in a series of 15 ceremonies held during the day to accommodate the 100,000 invited guests.[52] The first flight took place on June 12, 1994"

The 777-9 first flight date must be getting very close.

May be they're waiting until June 12 so it will be on the 25th Anniversary of the 777-200 (WA001) first flight.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2391
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 6:56 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
The initial 777 roll out to first flight was a little over 2 months.

From Wikipedia:

"On April 9, 1994, the first 777, line number WA001, was rolled out in a series of 15 ceremonies held during the day to accommodate the 100,000 invited guests.[52] The first flight took place on June 12, 1994"

The 777-9 first flight date must be getting very close.

May be they're waiting until June 12 so it will be on the 25th Anniversary of the 777-200 (WA001) first flight.


Perhaps first flight has been delayed until the MAX 's are back in the air ?
I can imagine lots of 777x flight test engineers being plucked to help get the MAX
jets modifed, tested and cleared for service
 
mxaxai
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 7:29 pm

The A320neo took ~ 3 months from roll out to first flight, first delivery was 1.5 years later. If Boeing manages to do the first flight this summer, which seems reasonable, delivery in 2020 should still be possible. They'll probably do it once the 737 max issues calm down.
 
StTim
Posts: 3266
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 7:37 pm

mxaxai wrote:
The A320neo took ~ 3 months from roll out to first flight, first delivery was 1.5 years later. If Boeing manages to do the first flight this summer, which seems reasonable, delivery in 2020 should still be possible. They'll probably do it once the 737 max issues calm down.


The 777X is a much bigger upgrade to the 777 than the neo was to the 320. The completely new wing must add quite a bit more testing into the campaign.
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 7:53 pm

It's not ready for first flight yet. Still being worked on every day.
 
OldAeroGuy
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:50 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 7:58 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
The initial 777 roll out to first flight was a little over 2 months.

From Wikipedia:

"On April 9, 1994, the first 777, line number WA001, was rolled out in a series of 15 ceremonies held during the day to accommodate the 100,000 invited guests.[52] The first flight took place on June 12, 1994"

The 777-9 first flight date must be getting very close.

May be they're waiting until June 12 so it will be on the 25th Anniversary of the 777-200 (WA001) first flight.


Perhaps first flight has been delayed until the MAX 's are back in the air ?
I can imagine lots of 777x flight test engineers being plucked to help get the MAX
jets modifed, tested and cleared for service


Nine women working together can't produce a baby in one month. ;)
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
mxaxai
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 8:33 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
The initial 777 roll out to first flight was a little over 2 months.

From Wikipedia:

"On April 9, 1994, the first 777, line number WA001, was rolled out in a series of 15 ceremonies held during the day to accommodate the 100,000 invited guests.[52] The first flight took place on June 12, 1994"

The 777-9 first flight date must be getting very close.

May be they're waiting until June 12 so it will be on the 25th Anniversary of the 777-200 (WA001) first flight.


Perhaps first flight has been delayed until the MAX 's are back in the air ?
I can imagine lots of 777x flight test engineers being plucked to help get the MAX
jets modifed, tested and cleared for service


Nine women working together can't produce a baby in one month. ;)

I've yet to see an engineering department that doesn't feel understaffed ...

StTim wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
The A320neo took ~ 3 months from roll out to first flight, first delivery was 1.5 years later. If Boeing manages to do the first flight this summer, which seems reasonable, delivery in 2020 should still be possible. They'll probably do it once the 737 max issues calm down.


The 777X is a much bigger upgrade to the 777 than the neo was to the 320. The completely new wing must add quite a bit more testing into the campaign.

True but the A320neo took unusually long. I think the engines delayed it a bit, whereas the GE 9X looks pretty mature.
 
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bikerthai
Posts: 2787
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 11:28 am

Sooner787 wrote:
Perhaps first flight has been delayed until the MAX 's are back in the air ?
I can imagine lots of 777x flight test engineers being plucked to help get the MAX
jets modifed, tested and cleared for service


The rollout was low key because of the MAX but they proceeded. Delay the 777 test schedule because of the MAX would exaserbate their problems.

There are plenty of flight test engineer within the 737 program to support the software fix flight test. After all they are not doing predelivery flights.

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
It's not ready for first flight yet. Still being worked on every day.

Probably busy installing all the flight test hardware.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
majano
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 4:15 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
The initial 777 roll out to first flight was a little over 2 months.

From Wikipedia:

"On April 9, 1994, the first 777, line number WA001, was rolled out in a series of 15 ceremonies held during the day to accommodate the 100,000 invited guests.[52] The first flight took place on June 12, 1994"

The 777-9 first flight date must be getting very close.

May be they're waiting until June 12 so it will be on the 25th Anniversary of the 777-200 (WA001) first flight.

Whilst trying to find information on the A350's roll-out to first flight, I came across this article in Airways: http://airwaysmag.com/uncategorized/the ... -timeline/.
Two to three months seems to be standard, the 787 time can be ignored as an outlier. Judging by this metric alone the 777X is still ok.
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