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atcsundevil
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Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:51 am

Please continue from last year's discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1383005
 
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juanchito
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:02 pm

Happy new year to everyone. Hope aviation will continue to grow on the region.

Ehhh nop. They will continue to have US registration N. Remember that Guatemala category was degraded.
aer wrote:
So we may be getting either an E190 or an A320 with a TG registration or Guatemalan flag? :crossfingers:
Fotografos de Aviacion de Guatemala. Spotter.
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aer
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:57 pm

juanchito wrote:
Happy new year to everyone. Hope aviation will continue to grow on the region.

Ehhh nop. They will continue to have US registration N. Remember that Guatemala category was degraded.
aer wrote:
So we may be getting either an E190 or an A320 with a TG registration or Guatemalan flag? :crossfingers:


But it was the lack of Guatemalan registers carriers or flag carriers for the FAA to audit the DGAC was what prompted the degradation, not the lack of regulation compliance. So if a Guatemalan carrier starts flying to the US then the FAA will audit and raise the category. I remember reading that this was the reason why the DGAC was in talks with DHL to have them transfer their MIA flight to DHL de Guatemala (JOS).

Also you have to remember that, by law, to fly intra Guatemalan flights aircraft must be either TG registered or fully staffed with a Guatemalan crew.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
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juanchito
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:59 pm

The degradations was not by the lack of TG register aircraft. Was the lack of audit that was not requested by the DGAC from the FAA (Costa Rica, El Salvador and Honduras does not have TI, YS or HR aircraft flying to the US for years and they are still CAT1). The only way now to go back to CAT1 is to have a TG airline flying to the US.
aer wrote:
But it was the lack of Guatemalan registers carriers or flag carriers for the FAA to audit the DGAC was what prompted the degradation, not the lack of regulation compliance. So if a Guatemalan carrier starts flying to the US then the FAA will audit and raise the category. I remember reading that this was the reason why the DGAC was in talks with DHL to have them transfer their MIA flight to DHL de Guatemala (JOS).


Taca used to fly to GUA-FRS using Airbus equipment in behave Aviateca. You can see in the database N478TA and N479TA had Aviateca written in the engines.
aer wrote:
Also you have to remember that, by law, to fly intra Guatemalan flights aircraft must be either TG registered or fully staffed with a Guatemalan crew.


Regards
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SANFan
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:41 am

Happy New Year everyone!

My top wish for 2019 (aviation-wise anyway) is for a SAN route to Latin America, and Central America make the most sense. Most of the talk/hope seems to involve COPA between PTY and SAN; I would be very happy with that. I have a strong feeling the SDIA Route Planners are working hard on this option and I just hope they can make it happen this year!

I'd appreciate it much if anyone hears anything about the possibility that they might share it here. I'll certainly do the same.

bb
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:21 pm

SANFan wrote:
Happy New Year everyone!

My top wish for 2019 (aviation-wise anyway) is for a SAN route to Latin America, and Central America make the most sense. Most of the talk/hope seems to involve COPA between PTY and SAN; I would be very happy with that. I have a strong feeling the SDIA Route Planners are working hard on this option and I just hope they can make it happen this year!

I'd appreciate it much if anyone hears anything about the possibility that they might share it here. I'll certainly do the same.

bb
Seems that demographics favour AV SAL-SAN over CM PTY-SAN.
Lets see if CM statistics on % PTY-LAX-PTY passengers who are actually SAN O/D gives CM the boost to start PTY-SAN.
IMHO, PTY-PHX would likely come before PTY-SAN.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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juanchito
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:32 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Happy New Year everyone!

My top wish for 2019 (aviation-wise anyway) is for a SAN route to Latin America, and Central America make the most sense. Most of the talk/hope seems to involve COPA between PTY and SAN; I would be very happy with that. I have a strong feeling the SDIA Route Planners are working hard on this option and I just hope they can make it happen this year!

I'd appreciate it much if anyone hears anything about the possibility that they might share it here. I'll certainly do the same.

bb
Seems that demographics favour AV SAL-SAN over CM PTY-SAN.
Lets see if CM statistics on % PTY-LAX-PTY passengers who are actually SAN O/D gives CM the boost to start PTY-SAN.
IMHO, PTY-PHX would likely come before PTY-SAN.


I think SEA would be a nice fit for PTY and CM.
Does somebody knows what deliveries will Copa have from Boeing this year?
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Chele737
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:41 pm

juanchito wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Happy New Year everyone!

My top wish for 2019 (aviation-wise anyway) is for a SAN route to Latin America, and Central America make the most sense. Most of the talk/hope seems to involve COPA between PTY and SAN; I would be very happy with that. I have a strong feeling the SDIA Route Planners are working hard on this option and I just hope they can make it happen this year!

I'd appreciate it much if anyone hears anything about the possibility that they might share it here. I'll certainly do the same.

bb
Seems that demographics favour AV SAL-SAN over CM PTY-SAN.
Lets see if CM statistics on % PTY-LAX-PTY passengers who are actually SAN O/D gives CM the boost to start PTY-SAN.
IMHO, PTY-PHX would likely come before PTY-SAN.


I think SEA would be a nice fit for PTY and CM.
Does somebody knows what deliveries will Copa have from Boeing this year?


According to their public published fleet plan, they will take delivery of 8 new 737 MAX's in 2019 and they will return 5 E190s. Total net A/Cs 3 and 109 in their fleet. https://copa.gcs-web.com/static-files/a ... c4ea80e81c
 
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YSAPW
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:05 pm

Do we know why Avianca is getting rid of the ATR´s in Central America? I always tought that the ATR fitted perfectly in some of the routes it did/does fly (and i enjoyed them very much).
 
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juanchito
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:58 pm

YSAPW wrote:
Do we know why Avianca is getting rid of the ATR´s in Central America? I always tought that the ATR fitted perfectly in some of the routes it did/does fly (and i enjoyed them very much).


They have not express the reasons why, maybe the JV between UA, CM and AV.
Rumor is that they will create a new LCC with the ATR in Colombia with the ATR

Juanchito
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2travel2know2
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:18 pm

juanchito wrote:
I think SEA would be a nice fit for PTY and CM.
Agreed, and the B737MAX has the range.
CM PTY-SEA red-eyes and SEA-PTY red-eyes thrice weekly then?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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juanchito
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:31 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
juanchito wrote:
I think SEA would be a nice fit for PTY and CM.
Agreed, and the B737MAX has the range.
CM PTY-SEA red-eyes and SEA-PTY red-eyes thrice weekly then?


Mmmm I think 4 weekly will be better.

Juanchito
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snaiks
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:32 am

Chele737 wrote:
juanchito wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Seems that demographics favour AV SAL-SAN over CM PTY-SAN.
Lets see if CM statistics on % PTY-LAX-PTY passengers who are actually SAN O/D gives CM the boost to start PTY-SAN.
IMHO, PTY-PHX would likely come before PTY-SAN.


I think SEA would be a nice fit for PTY and CM.
Does somebody knows what deliveries will Copa have from Boeing this year?


According to their public published fleet plan, they will take delivery of 8 new 737 MAX's in 2019 and they will return 5 E190s. Total net A/Cs 3 and 109 in their fleet. https://copa.gcs-web.com/static-files/a ... c4ea80e81c


I think that number might be 9 this year. they stated 5 73M for 2018, but only got 4 delivered. HP-9905CMP was sent for paint december 30th, so maybe towards the end of the month it will be flying.

This is going to be a difficult year for all carriers as Emerging Markets continue to take a hit. Fares have reduced dramatically in the past few months, and every new destination will have to be very profitable for it to make sense.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:06 pm

CM was the most on-time airline in 2018 and PTY had the best OTP for Medium Airports in 2018.
Congratulations to the new winners of the 2019 Punctuality League!
Another year, another look at on-time performance for the world's airlines and airports and 2019's edition makes for some very interesting analysis, especially as sitting on top of this year's league is a brand new winner.

Dethroning 3-time winner airBaltic was no easy task, but in 2018, Copa Airlines topped the ranking as the most punctual airline in the world with OTP of 89.79%, becoming the first-ever Latin American winner of the League.

In fact, it's been a brilliant year for South America as LATAM Airlines Group came first in our Mega Airlines category with on-time performance of 85.60%, climbing a remarkable seven places and knocking Japan Airlines off top-spot. The success follows in our Medium Airports category as Panama City climbs from 3rd to 1st.


https://www.oag.com/2019-airport-airline-on-time-performance-report?utm_campaign=Punctuality%20League%202019
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:43 pm

DL LAX-SAL will definetely terminate their services on April 30 as it faces an agressive competition offered by AV SAL-LAX 21x weekly.
Avianca Central America deploys the best product in such route: 321 and 320 NEO, whereas DL LAX-SAL was downgraded from 757 to 738 lately.

DL 961.....LAX 23.55 - 05.55+1 SAL....Daily….738
DL 962.....SAL 08.17 - 12.50 LAX....….Daily….738

Best wishes for 2019 to all the posters and followers in this series !
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
LightChop2Chop
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:07 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
DL LAX-SAL will definetely terminate their services on April 30 as it faces an agressive competition offered by AV SAL-LAX 21x weekly.


I don't think the termination of SAL LAX by DL is primarily due to the competition from AV etc. and I don't think this will be the last LAX -CentAm route to get axed (I see LAX BZE in no longer in the system after April too. I think that was 1Xweekly IIRC). international Gate space is at a premium at LAX and the domestic USA market is so hot right now that it is probably more that the aircraft can be more profitable elsewhere. I also think that DL is shifting from a strategy of building LAX to one of building BOS and reinforcing SEA.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:37 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
international Gate space is at a premium at LAX and the domestic USA market is so hot right now that it is probably more that the aircraft can be more profitable elsewhere.

DL LAX-SAL was downgraded from 757 to 738 and it also utilizes the same amount of jet-bridges and lounges every day.
The terminal-2 where DL use to be work at LAX looks like too small and uncomfortable and featuring limited services for their passengers like restaurants.
On the other hand, DL GUA-LAX and DL LAX-SJO seem to be crowded routes for the airline.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:48 pm

Avianca took delivery of their brand new ATR-72s in 2014 roughly.
I doubt if some tiny routes attended by these turbo-planes could support the E90s or 319s, like AV SAL-RTB 7x weekly.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:11 pm

Can the 737 MAX series fly PTY-SEA comfortably as non-stop services ?
Seattle-Tacoma international airport is sometimes utilized as a gateway to Asia for some passengers, trying to avoid the very long LAX-Asia segment.
For instance, BR TPE-SEA is available and CM already bears its code at BR LAX-TPE and BR SFO-TPE and covered under the Star Alliance banner as well.
On the other hand, CM wouldn't likely open any PTY-SEA route only for Asian purposes. The market on CM [PTY-SEA-Asia] is too thin.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:36 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Can the 737 MAX series fly PTY-SEA comfortably as non-stop services ?
Seattle-Tacoma international airport is sometimes utilized as a gateway to Asia for some passengers, trying to avoid the very long LAX-Asia segment.
For instance, BR TPE-SEA is available and CM already bears its code at BR LAX-TPE and BR SFO-TPE and covered under the Star Alliance banner as well.
On the other hand, CM wouldn't likely open any PTY-SEA route only for Asian purposes. The market on CM [PTY-SEA-Asia] is too thin.


Depends how many seats they block. This was in their slides of the 2018 Investor's day presentation and they were showing the range of the Max 8 and Max 9:
Image
 
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YSAPW
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:49 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Avianca took delivery of their brand new ATR-72s in 2014 roughly.
I doubt if some tiny routes attended by these turbo-planes could support the E90s or 319s, like AV SAL-RTB 7x weekly.


Or GUA - Flores, or sometimes even Tegucigalpa - San Salvador. I also think the ATR´s were the perfect choice for many intra Cen-Am routes. Sad theyll go.
 
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jetKIWI
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:05 pm

YSAPW wrote:
SJOtoLIR wrote:
Avianca took delivery of their brand new ATR-72s in 2014 roughly.
I doubt if some tiny routes attended by these turbo-planes could support the E90s or 319s, like AV SAL-RTB 7x weekly.


Or GUA - Flores, or sometimes even Tegucigalpa - San Salvador. I also think the ATR´s were the perfect choice for many intra Cen-Am routes. Sad theyll go.


I flew a new ATR (HR-AYM) in 2015 RTB - SAP. I think I read in last years thread that Islena (Avianca Honduras) was closing. Unfortunate if true, it was a great little local airline.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:41 pm

Latest updates of the construction of the Second Terminal at PTY

Latest pictures of the second terminal, from Twitter:
Second Terminal with 96% progress
Image
From Twitter: https://twitter.com/tocumenaero/status/1083338559401197568

Connector Building with 93% progress
Image
From Twitter: https://twitter.com/tocumenaero/status/1083362968887279616
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 am

Kilgen wrote:
Latest updates of the construction of the Second Terminal at PTY

The possibility of the third runway at PTY is indeed a feasible project later.
Tocumen terminal two would actually rise the demand of passengers through that airport and the new step seems to be focused in the expansion of their aeronautical operations.
Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:05 am

I haven't found evidence of the following routes operated in the past:

AV SAL-LIR
Q6 SAL-TIJ
UX SAP-MAD
CM PTY-SJO-SAP
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
kevintarmac
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:34 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
I haven't found evidence of the following routes operated in the past:

AV SAL-LIR
Q6 SAL-TIJ
UX SAP-MAD
CM PTY-SJO-SAP


I'm about 99.9% sure of SAL LIR, when my mother and aunt bought a package deal to LIR, they flew AV non stop on the ATR. this was in late 16 early 17. This website shows May of 2017.

https://tamarindobeachinfo.com/tamarind ... a-airport/
 
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tommyarias
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:27 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
I haven't found evidence of the following routes operated in the past:

AV SAL-LIR
Q6 SAL-TIJ
UX SAP-MAD
CM PTY-SJO-SAP


The 2005 Annual Report from CM says that PTY-SJO-SAP would start in 2006.
"Insert Generic Signature or Quote" - Generic Name
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:48 am

Not all the flights operated by ATR-72s are still in service: SAL-LIR, SJO-TGU, SJO-SAP, SJO-ADZ and SJO-MGA.
AV SJO-GUA and AV SJO-PTY are not deploying the ATR-72s anymore.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:54 am

tommyarias wrote:
CM says that PTY-SJO-SAP would start in 2006.

I clearly remember that flight operated by E90s basically.
So it was removed from the map.
On the contrary, CM PTY-SAP 7x weekly is active. Equipment: E90, 73G or 738.
Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:27 pm

 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:39 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
tommyarias wrote:
CM says that PTY-SJO-SAP would start in 2006.

I clearly remember that flight operated by E90s basically.
So it was removed from the map.
On the contrary, CM PTY-SAP 7x weekly is active. Equipment: E90, 73G or 738.
Regards.


The PTY-SJO-SAP was cancelled in 2016 or 2017. All SAP traffic goes directly to PTY.
 
LightChop2Chop
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:16 pm

I wonder if CM would ever consider FRS.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:43 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
I wonder if CM would ever consider FRS.
As a tag-on from LIR? :spin:
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:01 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
Latest updates of the construction of the Second Terminal at PTY

The possibility of the third runway at PTY is indeed a feasible project later.
Tocumen terminal two would actually rise the demand of passengers through that airport and the new step seems to be focused in the expansion of their aeronautical operations.
Regards.


CM's CEO had a talk with La Prensa (Panamanian Newspaper) last year and was going over a list of improvements at PTY.
Here is the video: https://www.facebook.com/prensacom/videos/1798549580194769/

Here are some screenshots of the slides with some of the plans:

Third runway plan and update of the air traffic patterns over Panama:
Image

New expansion to the T2 to add 10 new gates but I think they will lose 2 gates at the T2, so it is a net gain of 8 gates but 4 of those gates can be used as 2 gates for wide body aircraft. Also they get 7 new remote locations.
Image

Possible location of the T3 and T4 next to the third runway:
Image
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:15 pm

Kilgen wrote:
SJOtoLIR wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
Latest updates of the construction of the Second Terminal at PTY

The possibility of the third runway at PTY is indeed a feasible project later.
Tocumen terminal two would actually rise the demand of passengers through that airport and the new step seems to be focused in the expansion of their aeronautical operations.
Regards.


CM's CEO had a talk with La Prensa (Panamanian Newspaper) last year and was going over a list of improvements at PTY.
Here is the video: https://www.facebook.com/prensacom/videos/1798549580194769/

Here are some screenshots of the slides with some of the plans:

Third runway plan and update of the air traffic patterns over Panama:
Image

New expansion to the T2 to add 10 new gates but I think they will lose 2 gates at the T2, so it is a net gain of 8 gates but 4 of those gates can be used as 2 gates for wide body aircraft. Also they get 7 new remote locations.
Image

Possible location of the T3 and T4 next to the third runway:
Image


I've heard about the 3rd runway but not about T3-4 :hyper:
T2 isn't finished and as some have guessed, it needs more gates (for CM).
And while talking about the new gates for T2, PTY management should tear-down that airport office building next to the north concourse and move those offices to the cargo terminal so to make room for 2-3 more gates.

It's great that PTY will become such a colossal airport but its success will mean chances for BLB, ONX and RIH to grow will be quite slim at best.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:17 pm

Is the connector building just for airside connection, or can it also be used landside?
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:46 am

LTU932 wrote:
Is the connector building just for airside connection, or can it also be used landside?
The way it looks from outside, seems to be only for airside connections.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:29 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
LTU932 wrote:
Is the connector building just for airside connection, or can it also be used landside?
The way it looks from outside, seems to be only for airside connections.
Oh well. Maybe I'll see it for myself whenever I return to Panama (which will likely not be in 2019).
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:27 pm

Kilgen wrote:
next to the third runway

Montevideo Carrasco is featuring three runways, but one of them is less than 6000 feet long and probably it's closed by now.
I cannot remember other Latin American airport providing at least three active runways.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:31 pm

Due to the withdrawal of CM PTY-SJO-SAP and AV SJO-SAP, San Jose and San Pedro Sula are not getting more non-stop services.
Probably, the demand of passengers was too thin, in order to sustain these operations.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:41 am

When did AA discontinue DFW-PTY? I'm very surprised they wouldn't fly that route. I'm sure they have in the past. I'm not seeing when looking at potential routes. Everything goes through MIA from PTY.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:58 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
When did AA discontinue DFW-PTY? I'm very surprised they wouldn't fly that route. I'm sure they have in the past. I'm not seeing when looking at potential routes. Everything goes through MIA from PTY.
AA had been flying DFW-PTY on-and-off 3-4 times per week seasonal for a while.
Seems it was better for AA to move all its PTY O/D traffic via MIA instead of DFW.

If AV keeps on flying to AA hub from its hub SAL, pretty sure CM could sustain DFW from PTY at least 3-4 per week. I'd guess it'll happen.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:37 am

BLB Panamá Pacífico (Howard) airport has been seeing a lot of activity due to the thousands of pilgrims/visitors travelling to Panama for The Pope visit next week.
Many of those visitors 1st have activities outside Panama City, so seems strange that the charters from mainly Central América and México don't use Rio Hato RIH or David Malek DAV for the arrivals.
Also, as many had expected, immigration/customs at PTY is close to collapse due to the huge amount of visitors. Government has finally set a dedicated bus line to serve PTY from the unfinished - but now in use for these weeks - line 2 metro stations nearby.
I'm not on CM's payroll.

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