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Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:15 pm

Contour is going to use C27. Sun Country is switching to C28. Makes sense because I don't think C28 can handle regional jets since it is setup for widebodies.

This now means all the open gates except A9 are in use by someone regularly (although some are only a couple flights a week).
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:12 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Contour is going to use C27. Sun Country is switching to C28. Makes sense because I don't think C28 can handle regional jets since it is setup for widebodies.

This now means all the open gates except A9 are in use by someone regularly (although some are only a couple flights a week).


I've been on an AA MD-80 that docked at C28 (this was 6 months ago), so its not necessarily set up for widebodies.

And the whole A9 deal has been discussed before, but I have seen RJs out of A10 recently.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:35 am

maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Contour is going to use C27. Sun Country is switching to C28. Makes sense because I don't think C28 can handle regional jets since it is setup for widebodies.

This now means all the open gates except A9 are in use by someone regularly (although some are only a couple flights a week).


I've been on an AA MD-80 that docked at C28 (this was 6 months ago), so its not necessarily set up for widebodies.

And the whole A9 deal has been discussed before, but I have seen RJs out of A10 recently.


That is why I said I don't think it is set up for RJs (which contour is). Markings are for mainline and wide bodies. I don't think you would usually see an RJ at a gate that can accept wide bodies. Too much of a difference in height for the jetway setup.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:40 am

I watched the airport commission meeting from yesterday and have a few notes.

Rhonda said the top domestic markets they are looking to get back are: Louisville, Indy, Richmond, Norfolk.
International: Paris, London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Dublin

Someone is going over to talk to airlines next week. 1 for sure and maybe 2 have wanted them to confirm their incentives to them.

I really am getting the vibe that Dublin will be next.

Also said the RFQ for privatization will probably come out March/April.
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:15 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I watched the airport commission meeting from yesterday and have a few notes.

Rhonda said the top domestic markets they are looking to get back are: Louisville, Indy, Richmond, Norfolk.


I agree that WN bringing back STL-SDF nonstop service could happen since WN brought back some other previously discontinued nonstop routes such as STL-CLE and STL-LIT.

In addition to STL-SDF, STL-IND, STL-RIC, and STL-ORF, WN could also add STL-CLT, STL-CVG, STL-JAX, and STL-PVD nonstop service. WN could also bring back STL-ABQ and STL-SLC nonstop service.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Would be great for WN to bring back STL-SDF. While at it...bring back SDF-BHM....and add frequencies SDF-MDW and new add SDF-MKE
 
wnflyguy
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:30 pm

WN gate additions go hand in hand with a system wide tread at WN. With Every additional 737800/MAX8 their gate per hour usage keeps going down with the extra turn times needed for 175 pax vs 143.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:57 pm

Looks like UA is putting a E170 on EWR all summer for one of daily flights. Starts early June goes to mid August. So that is good to see. Not all E145s.
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:59 pm

What time of day? Is it middle of afternoon to connect to the Eurobank?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
strangeplanes
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:01 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
WN gate additions go hand in hand with a system wide tread at WN. With Every additional 737800/MAX8 their gate per hour usage keeps going down with the extra turn times needed for 175 pax vs 143.

Flyguy


WN plans on introducing duel gate - ground boarding at more airports to combat this.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:10 pm

stlgph wrote:
What time of day? Is it middle of afternoon to connect to the Eurobank?


6 am STL-EWR
10 pm EWR-STL

So better for day trips.


I think they are running 2 a day on Sat/Sunday though.

They are running 2 mainline on Sundays to ORD (just 1 during the week)
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:16 pm

Zoiks. Having lived in NYC, the thought of going there just for a day is laughable. Is there another 170 coming and going during the day? I would presume at times the return flight will be so delayed there's no chance of the 6am getting out on time due to crew rest.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:18 pm

strangeplanes wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN gate additions go hand in hand with a system wide tread at WN. With Every additional 737800/MAX8 their gate per hour usage keeps going down with the extra turn times needed for 175 pax vs 143.

Flyguy


WN plans on introducing duel gate - ground boarding at more airports to combat this.


Interesting.
Turn times on Southwest certainly have gone up over the years - and I wish Southwest would be one of the first to admit this.
Even on the 737700s, it seems as though it takes "damn near forever" at times to get people off the thing before they start putting people on.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:06 pm

Hopefully with more gates WN will start a morning bank to the west coast. Currently nonstop flyers have to wait until the 2pm bank for SEA,PDX,OAK,SJC,SMF,SFO. Not ideal for business travelers.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:20 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Hopefully with more gates WN will start a morning bank to the west coast. Currently nonstop flyers have to wait until the 2pm bank for SEA,PDX,OAK,SJC,SMF,SFO. Not ideal for business travelers.

Or they should just move SFO to morning and evening. Connectors can just connect on OAK/SJC
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:31 pm

stl07 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Hopefully with more gates WN will start a morning bank to the west coast. Currently nonstop flyers have to wait until the 2pm bank for SEA,PDX,OAK,SJC,SMF,SFO. Not ideal for business travelers.

Or they should just move SFO to morning and evening. Connectors can just connect on OAK/SJC


Yep. This is my biggest gripe as someone who flies to SFO/OAK frequently. They finally broke up the OAK/SFO departures from the same time when they added SJC and moved SFO to 1045 or 11 am but I would rather have one later after work. I would like to see a 2nd SFO or OAK and one of them be after 5 (in the 7 o'clock bank preferably). That or just move one of them to then, keep SFO in the morning like it is and move OAK to evening. There are plenty of other west connection options in the 1 pm bank already.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:26 pm

If I'm summarizing all of the projects in planning or about to begin phase is this list accurate and does anyone have updates on timelines/progress?

-T2 Baggage Expansion
-New fuel farm
-New C gates reopening
-New customs hall options (wasn't there an RFP last year?)
-New cargo facility, which I think I saw something near the end of last year about this finally moving a bit

It will be interesting to see what passenger numbers do in 2019 and part of this will hinge on what WN does.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:58 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
If I'm summarizing all of the projects in planning or about to begin phase is this list accurate and does anyone have updates on timelines/progress?

-T2 Baggage Expansion
-New fuel farm
-New C gates reopening
-New customs hall options (wasn't there an RFP last year?)
-New cargo facility, which I think I saw something near the end of last year about this finally moving a bit

It will be interesting to see what passenger numbers do in 2019 and part of this will hinge on what WN does.


It was an RFQ not an RFP for the Customs facility, so we probably have a little before that gets going.

The only other thing you didn't list was 3 more gates for WN.

Baggage, I think will start this year but I think they said it would take 18-24 months to complete.
Last I heard C gates would open next month.
Fuel Farm and Cargo I am not sure on the timeline.
 
Trololzilla
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:24 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Fuel Farm and Cargo I am not sure on the timeline.

Bulk Fuel Storage Facility - according to this source and its supplement, preliminary work (moving/closing existing fuel lines, etc.) began almost a year ago, but the airport still needs to clear some regulatory hurdles to begin the real work as of late last year.

As of 31 December 2017, St. Louis County is a non-attainment area for 8-hour ozone and PM-2.5.
The status for 8-hour ozone is Marginal and the status for PM-2.5 is Moderate (see Attachment E). The existing BFSF emission sources (emergency electrical generator, gasoline underground storage tank and Jet Fuel storage tanks) are not covered under the Airport Intermediate Operating Permit and the facility does not have a stand-alone MDNR [Missouri Dept. of Natural Resources] Air Operating Permit.

The regulatory necessity of obtaining an Operating Permit for the replacement BFSF is, as of October 2018, unclear and the Airport has requested guidance from MDNR in this matter. All written communication from MDNR on this issue will be forwarded to the FAA and the EA may be revised as necessary. The Airport will comply with MDNR’s determination. The St. Louis County Health Department will also require a permit to construct the replacement BFSF.


As such, I would estimate completion could be anywhere between 24-60 months from now, depending on how quickly they can get through the bureaucratic crap and whether or not there's any issues during construction.

This line's also interesting:

After the existing BFSF is decommissioned and remediated, STL Fuel will return the existing site to the Airport to be used for possible ground transportation facilities that support passenger needs.


Wondering if they mean to turn the old site into a parking lot (though I don't think it would provide a whole lot of spaces) or if they're referring to something else entirely given the phrasing "ground transportation facilities".

Bi-National cargo facility - the recent Post-Dispatch article about it had this to say:

Ricardo Nicolopulos, president of Bi-National Gateway Terminal LLC, said he hopes that work begins in March on the project’s $56 million first phase totaling 1.1 million square feet.

Plans call for that to be finished in 19 months but Nicolopulos says some operations are expected to start later this year when the rehab work is partly complete. Two later phases will involve new construction.


So the stated goal is 19 months from start to finish for the first phase, but given everything I'd venture 20-30 months is a safer bet. That's assuming no economic downturn either.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:19 am

strangeplanes wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN gate additions go hand in hand with a system wide tread at WN. With Every additional 737800/MAX8 their gate per hour usage keeps going down with the extra turn times needed for 175 pax vs 143.

Flyguy


WN plans on introducing duel gate - ground boarding at more airports to combat this.


Only at warmer weather stations if staffing levels are available.
I've seen them do it at PBI and SMF and honestly it's a Mess at best.
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:58 pm

The Bi-National cargo facility is an interesting use of the airport and hopefully that will do well. That should bring an interesting mix of aircraft in.

Unrelated, I know it won’t happen, but I’d love it if the airport would work with the car rental companies to create a car rental center. One bus, one rental facility.

By the way, does anyone remember the restaurant that used to be near the end of 30R? It was popular back in the 90’s. I can’t remember the name. You’d go for dinner and be able to watch the planes.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:11 pm

94th Aero Squadron
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:48 pm

I agree with you DCA. I know some people want on site rental cars but I would be more than happy with just a consolidated one somewhere close. There are spots around that it seems like would work for it. I don’t know who owns the huge lots at the north Hanley metro station but I would put it there. Everyone can ride the train to it. No need for busses. Free to ride for that portion.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:20 pm

Both PDX and MSP got extended on SY so they are satisfied with MSP apparently
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:32 pm

WN added a 2nd mon-fri flight to RSW for April.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:40 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
94th Aero Squadron


That’s it. Thanks.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:22 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
94th Aero Squadron

My favorite place. Used to have Birthday dinners as a kid here. Also took my wife here to sit out on the patio have a few and watch the planes land. Sad it is gone.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 pm

TWA302 wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
94th Aero Squadron

My favorite place. Used to have Birthday dinners as a kid here. Also took my wife here to sit out on the patio have a few and watch the planes land. Sad it is gone.

And India palace too. What's left for STL spotters?
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
mwmav8r01
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:06 am

TWA302 wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
94th Aero Squadron

My favorite place. Used to have Birthday dinners as a kid here. Also took my wife here to sit out on the patio have a few and watch the planes land. Sad it is gone.



Proposed to my wife there. Very sad its gone.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:24 am

stl07 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
94th Aero Squadron

My favorite place. Used to have Birthday dinners as a kid here. Also took my wife here to sit out on the patio have a few and watch the planes land. Sad it is gone.

And India palace too. What's left for STL spotters?


Um...cell phone lot? :cry:
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
Trololzilla
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:09 am

We should all crowdfund a replacement for India Palace :lol:

Could even be more planespotting oriented than food oriented...
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:31 am

G4 extended their schedule into November.

Looks like Vegas is going away mid august. First time it hasn't been your round since about when G4 started here.
JAX/FLL stays seasonal.
AZA is back though.
VPS stays daily thru October.
PIE/PGD/SFB still going.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:56 pm

Any thoughts on NK in STL? I'm actually a little surprised they haven't entered the market yet. I would also say, while there is some overlap, they aren't the same type of product as WN.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:32 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Any thoughts on NK in STL? I'm actually a little surprised they haven't entered the market yet. I would also say, while there is some overlap, they aren't the same type of product as WN.


I think the issue is that everywhere they would fly is pretty saturated already. I personally think that is keeping them out.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:03 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Any thoughts on NK in STL? I'm actually a little surprised they haven't entered the market yet. I would also say, while there is some overlap, they aren't the same type of product as WN.


I think they could do similar to CMH, where they came in with Florida cities and Vegas. Especially seeing as NK just announced entry into the CLT market.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:03 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Any thoughts on NK in STL? I'm actually a little surprised they haven't entered the market yet. I would also say, while there is some overlap, they aren't the same type of product as WN.


I think the issue is that everywhere they would fly is pretty saturated already. I personally think that is keeping them out.


While I agree with your point, there are a few destinations such as BWI, BOS, DFW, FLL, IAH, and MYR that could be served nonstop out of STL on NK if NK adds service to STL.

While there is already a lot of nonstop service to the DFW/DAL, IAH/HOU, and BWI/DCA/IAD markets out of STL, there are currently no ULCC's serving these markets nonstop from STL or BLV. In addition, BWI, BOS, DFW, DAL, FLL, IAH, HOU, and IAD all also currently have nonstop service out of STL on only 1 airline.

MYR doesn't currently have any nonstop service out of STL, but G4 has less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service to MYR from BLV. NK could add STL-MYR nonstop service if NK adds service to STL.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Out of left field...could someone try to interline with Contour Airlines on STL-TBN? You can now no longer get to TBN via AA codeshares, which is bad for military personnel.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:39 pm

dcaproducer wrote:

Any thoughts on NK in STL? I'm actually a little surprised they haven't entered the market yet. I would also say, while there is some overlap, they aren't the same type of product as WN.


Well, STL has F9 and their seasonal mish-mash of destinations and G4 at BLV. And the WN connecting complex (still not a "hub"). And SY is showing us some attention so NK may find other opportunities before they hit STL. I'm at a loss to figure out where NK would fly to out of STL that isn't covered pretty well already.
C'mon BA, bring your tail to STL. :airplane:
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:45 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

Any thoughts on NK in STL? I'm actually a little surprised they haven't entered the market yet. I would also say, while there is some overlap, they aren't the same type of product as WN.


Well, STL has F9 and their seasonal mish-mash of destinations and G4 at BLV. And the WN connecting complex (still not a "hub"). And SY is showing us some attention so NK may find other opportunities before they hit STL. I'm at a loss to figure out where NK would fly to out of STL that isn't covered pretty well already.


It is called a connecting hub in construction bid documents though. Which I found interesting since WN and hub usually isn't used together.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:48 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

Any thoughts on NK in STL? I'm actually a little surprised they haven't entered the market yet. I would also say, while there is some overlap, they aren't the same type of product as WN.


Well, STL has F9 and their seasonal mish-mash of destinations and G4 at BLV. And the WN connecting complex (still not a "hub"). And SY is showing us some attention so NK may find other opportunities before they hit STL. I'm at a loss to figure out where NK would fly to out of STL that isn't covered pretty well already.


It is called a connecting hub in construction bid documents though. Which I found interesting since WN and hub usually isn't used together.

Do you have a link? Just wanted to see it because I'v never seen something like that either.
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:41 am

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

Well, STL has F9 and their seasonal mish-mash of destinations and G4 at BLV. And the WN connecting complex (still not a "hub"). And SY is showing us some attention so NK may find other opportunities before they hit STL. I'm at a loss to figure out where NK would fly to out of STL that isn't covered pretty well already.


It is called a connecting hub in construction bid documents though. Which I found interesting since WN and hub usually isn't used together.

Do you have a link? Just wanted to see it because I'v never seen something like that either.


It is from a document for the taxiway plan layout RFQ. Here is a screenshot of it though.
(Obviously, this was before WOW discontinued service)

Image
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:11 am

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

It is called a connecting hub in construction bid documents though. Which I found interesting since WN and hub usually isn't used together.

Do you have a link? Just wanted to see it because I'v never seen something like that either.


It is from a document for the taxiway plan layout RFQ. Here is a screenshot of it though.
(Obviously, this was before WOW discontinued service)

Image

Oh ok, I get it. I thought it was WN themselves who called STL a hub
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:19 am

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Do you have a link? Just wanted to see it because I'v never seen something like that either.


It is from a document for the taxiway plan layout RFQ. Here is a screenshot of it though.
(Obviously, this was before WOW discontinued service)

Image

Oh ok, I get it. I thought it was WN themselves who called STL a hub


Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear on that. I am not sure WN even uses the focus city term. Talking about connecting opportunities is as far as I have seen them go.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:26 am

maps4ltd wrote:
which is bad for military personnel.

I thought they used a charter bus from Lambert
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:24 pm

I would venture to bet NK would appeal to budget travelers similar to the market for F9. NK could probably pull off FLL, LAS and maybe somewhere else in Florida or Texas. If they make MCI work with WN’s presence, I bet they could make STL work, even with the larger WN. They’d have to go after the leisure O&D.

We used to have them at DCA and they retreated to BWI, which is the WN fortress. So they seem to make it work. They also still make DTW, their original hub, work even with DL.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:43 am

Finally got around to fully updating my Load Factor Spreadsheet for October (July for Intl). Probably good since the next month comes out tomorrow.

Here are the numbers. The only thing not updated is ORD (I'll get to it later).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:53 am

Urban Chestnut putting in a bar in T2. Basically a grab and go.

Lots of good local beer options now with Urban Chestnut, Schlafly, Three Kings, and the Bud bar (if we still count Bud).

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... a35cc.html
 
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T18
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:39 am

maps4ltd wrote:
stl07 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
My favorite place. Used to have Birthday dinners as a kid here. Also took my wife here to sit out on the patio have a few and watch the planes land. Sad it is gone.

And India palace too. What's left for STL spotters?


Um...cell phone lot? :cry:


Not that I recommend this but, the field off Missouri bottom, Banshee and Lindbergh or the area around Navaid have some good views but I bet Airport Police would come and run you off from either one.
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:18 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Urban Chestnut putting in a bar in T2. Basically a grab and go.

Lots of good local beer options now with Urban Chestnut, Schlafly, Three Kings, and the Bud bar (if we still count Bud).

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... a35cc.html

Is this the "new restaurant" or will that be something else
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
jplatts
Posts: 2352
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:09 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Finally got around to fully updating my Load Factor Spreadsheet for October (July for Intl). Probably good since the next month comes out tomorrow.


I have noticed that DL has much weaker load factors on STL-CVG nonstop service than WN does on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop service. WN also currently operates STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights on Boeing 737 planes whereas DL currently operates STL-CVG nonstop service on CRJ 200 and CRJ 700 regional jets.

DL also still currently charges significantly higher fares on last-minute nonstops to CVG from STL than WN does on last-minute nonstop flights to CMH, DSM, MCI, MKE, and OMA from STL.

Here is what DL currently charges on STL-CVG compared to what WN charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA:
STL-CVG on DL - $796 last-minute, $416 21-day advance purchase
STL-CMH on WN - $534 last-minute, $250 21-day advance purchase
STL-DSM on WN - $444 last-minute, $172 21-day advance purchase
STL-MCI on WN - $426 last-minute, $210 21-day advance purchase
STL-MKE on WN - $504 last-minute, $246 21-day advance purchase
STL-OMA on WN - $460 last-minute, $264 21-day advance purchase

I think that DL charging significantly higher fares on STL-CVG compared to what WN currently charges on STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstop flights is weakening demand for DL STL-CVG nonstop service and load factors on DL's STL-CVG nonstop flights.

WN would certainly charge lower fares on STL-CVG than DL currently does on STL-CVG if WN adds STL-CVG nonstop service. WN would also likely stimulate additional demand for STL-CVG nonstop service if it adds STL-CVG nonstop service since WN carries significantly more passengers on its STL-CMH, STL-DSM, STL-MCI, STL-MKE, and STL-OMA nonstops than DL currently does on STL-CVG nonstops.

Another big difference is that most of the domestic destinations east of CVG that are still served nonstop out of CVG on DL are already served nonstop out of STL on WN, whereas DSM and OMA have nonstop service to fewer destinations east of the Mississippi.
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