Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
HBChris wrote:It's MSN 55046 for Swiss that is included in the list but actually is still in YMX. Probably it has officially been handed over to LX and is now registered in Switzerland but simply has not made the flight to Zurich yet.
VV wrote:HBChris wrote:It's MSN 55046 for Swiss that is included in the list but actually is still in YMX. Probably it has officially been handed over to LX and is now registered in Switzerland but simply has not made the flight to Zurich yet.
So, how many A220 have been delivered (transfer of title) in 2018? Thanks.
HBChris wrote:It's MSN 55046 for Swiss that is included in the list but actually is still in YMX. Probably it has officially been handed over to LX and is now registered in Switzerland but simply has not made the flight to Zurich yet.
Revelation wrote:Both 'Moxie' and JetBlue orders are now firm, so 120 more frames to be produced, all of them said to be in Mobile not Mirabel:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarc ... -aircraft/
Seems they are sticking firm to the rule that US deliveries will come from Mobile not Mirabel.
SteelChair wrote:The firming of those orders is great news!
I still believe that they will find a way to ferry partially complete airframes to Mobile, and for the first few years at least, those will be the deliveries from Mobile.
SteelChair wrote:The mother of all those was Planemaker. He was even pretending BBD would not meet the promised performance, nor be able to certified it.What rule? And oh, by the way, where are those people who said Airbus bought the program with the intention to kill it? Whither have they fled? Perhaps to the same place that those who said the dumping lawsuit had merit have gone?
mullac30 wrote:Perhaps Airbus could use displaced A300 Belugas to ferry A220 fuselage sections and wings to Mobile?
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StTim wrote:mullac30 wrote:Perhaps Airbus could use displaced A300 Belugas to ferry A220 fuselage sections and wings to Mobile?
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Good call on the fuselage - but don't the wings already get shipped in from Belfast so they could just change the destination.
ExMilitaryEng wrote:StTim wrote:mullac30 wrote:Perhaps Airbus could use displaced A300 Belugas to ferry A220 fuselage sections and wings to Mobile?
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Good call on the fuselage - but don't the wings already get shipped in from Belfast so they could just change the destination.
Interesting thought.
But at that point, it would require to complete earlier the full A220 FAL in Mobile, not just that completion centre, as planned for this coming summer.
The priority for now is to expedite/un-jam the completion process; and indeed may as well get that aditionnal completion capacity up and running in Mobile at the earliest. That would still create relevant jobs/expertise (earlier than expected) and keep the ITC and the likes happy until the whole FAL is completed...
aerolimani wrote:Seeing as Montreal, Belfast, and Mobile are all port cities, they can send fuselages and wings by cargo ship. There's no need to fly green aircraft, or to use Belugas. Partially complete aircraft, without wings, could leave Montreal for Mobile, and wings could arrive direct to Mobile from Belfast.
hkcanadaexpat wrote:aerolimani wrote:Seeing as Montreal, Belfast, and Mobile are all port cities, they can send fuselages and wings by cargo ship. There's no need to fly green aircraft, or to use Belugas. Partially complete aircraft, without wings, could leave Montreal for Mobile, and wings could arrive direct to Mobile from Belfast.
Mirabel is not quite in Montreal and not sure how you would drive the fuselage from Mirabel to the downtown port of Montreal. but OK.
hkcanadaexpat wrote:Mirabel is not quite in Montreal and not sure how you would drive the fuselage from Mirabel to the downtown port of Montreal. but OK.
SteelChair wrote:The problem with shipping fuselage barrels and wings to Mobile is that you need a FAL1 in Mobile.
FAL1 in YMX is a very complex building, full of proprietary and patented equipment and processes, not the least of which is an internal positioning system that puts the pieces together in a very, very precise manner. To build this building in Mobile will take some time. Meanwhile, FAL1 at YMX is nowhere near maximum, or even optimum, output.
It makes much more sense, imho, to help speed up completion by adding a second completion center at Mobile while cranking up the output of FAL1 in YMX to economically efficient levels. And that means flying incomplete airplanes from Montreal to Mobile.
SteelChair wrote:As oposed to a boost, I think we can expect a long, gradual increase.
From 7 deliveries in 2016, to 17 in 2017, to 31-33 in 2018........perhaps 50-55 is a good goal for 2019. A "linear" progression would indicate about 45 but one has to account for Airbus having a positive effect on the program, and also program momentum. Perhaps 70-80 for 2020 and 100ish for 2021?
I believe FAL1 in YMX is optimized for 10/month, 120 a year. They would reach that level around 2021-22 if they maintain the same rate of increase. So, the way I have it figured is that they do completion in Mobile for 2-3 years, and IF sufficent orders come, and IF the A220-500 gets launched in, oh say, 2020-21, then they have a year or two from roght now to decide to build an FAL1 type facility in Mobile. Plan to bring it online by 2023 at the latest?
All just total speculation and MHO.
SteelChair wrote:...perhaps 50-55 is a good goal for 2019. A "linear" progression would indicate about 45 but one has to account for Airbus having a positive effect on the program, and also program momentum. Perhaps 70-80 for 2020 and 100ish for 2021?
I believe FAL1 in YMX is optimized for 10/month, 120 a year. They would reach that level around 2021-22 if they maintain the same rate of increase. So, the way I have it figured is that they do completion in Mobile for 2-3 years, and IF sufficent orders come, and IF the A220-500 gets launched in, oh say, 2020-21, then they have a year or two from roght now to decide to build an FAL1 type facility in Mobile. Plan to bring it online by 2023 at the latest?
StTim wrote:SteelChair wrote:As oposed to a boost, I think we can expect a long, gradual increase.
From 7 deliveries in 2016, to 17 in 2017, to 31-33 in 2018........perhaps 50-55 is a good goal for 2019. A "linear" progression would indicate about 45 but one has to account for Airbus having a positive effect on the program, and also program momentum. Perhaps 70-80 for 2020 and 100ish for 2021?
I believe FAL1 in YMX is optimized for 10/month, 120 a year. They would reach that level around 2021-22 if they maintain the same rate of increase. So, the way I have it figured is that they do completion in Mobile for 2-3 years, and IF sufficent orders come, and IF the A220-500 gets launched in, oh say, 2020-21, then they have a year or two from roght now to decide to build an FAL1 type facility in Mobile. Plan to bring it online by 2023 at the latest?
All just total speculation and MHO.
I read that the planning for the FAL in Mobile has already started and that they will break ground this year.
The Atlanta-based carrier – the first US airline to acquire the A220 – has planned to place the type into revenue service on 31 January with flights from New York LaGuardia airport to Boston and Dallas-Fort Worth.
But the US budgetary standoff – which is about to enter a third week – has shuttered large swaths of the US government.
1
StTim wrote:https://leehamnews.com/2018/07/11/future-mobile-a220-final-assembly-line-already-pushing-capacity/
and
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ne-453033/
Both say FAL. Is there something extra when you say FAL1?
Belperflyer wrote:So on basis Bombardier had done ground work on JetBlue and Moxy order I wonder how much of the deposits they will see on these 120 frames?
StTim wrote:
I don't know how there can be two Final Assembly processes. If so one obviously isn't Final...
StTim wrote:Surely now Airbis effectively own that system and there is nothing to stop them implementing it at Mobile.
I don't know how there can be two Final Assembly processes. If so one obviously isn't Final...
StTim wrote:Surely now Airbis effectively own that system and there is nothing to stop them implementing it at Mobile.
I don't know how there can be two Final Assembly processes. If so one obviously isn't Final...
StTim wrote:I saw in the Delta release for the increased order that they expect to break ground on the Mobile FAL this month.
I think Airbus are taking the A220 very seriously and looking to upgrade capacity accordingly.
qf789 wrote:
8 Jan 19
Swiss A220-300 HB-JCT MSN 55046, Sixth test flight YMX-YMX, Aircraft also delivered YMX-YYR-ZRH
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/hb-jct
United787 wrote:Forgive me for I have not been following the A220 and DL lately. I understand DL has taken delivery of 4 aircraft so far. Are they in revenue service yet?
StTim wrote:I saw in the Delta release for the increased order that they expect to break ground on the Mobile FAL this month.
I think Airbus are taking the A220 very seriously and looking to upgrade capacity accordingly.
hkcanadaexpat wrote:aerolimani wrote:Seeing as Montreal, Belfast, and Mobile are all port cities, they can send fuselages and wings by cargo ship. There's no need to fly green aircraft, or to use Belugas. Partially complete aircraft, without wings, could leave Montreal for Mobile, and wings could arrive direct to Mobile from Belfast.
Mirabel is not quite in Montreal and not sure how you would drive the fuselage from Mirabel to the downtown port of Montreal. but OK.
qf789 wrote:8 Jan 19
Swiss A220-300 HB-JCT MSN 55046, Sixth test flight YMX-YMX, Aircraft also delivered YMX-YYR-ZRH
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/hb-jct