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User avatar
jbpdx
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:23 am

Nice start for BNA and SAT from Sun Country. Better to go daily as they are able to. I figured SY would be our only hope to fill unserved routes. PDX-MCO was a misstep with AS on the route. PDX-MIA is unserved so they need to look at that.
Airlines I won’t fly again: F9, AA
 
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FA9295
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:25 am

Not too important, but worth noting that Sun Country's PDX-SFO flight is increasing from 2x weekly to 4x weekly starting June 9th.
 
flyoregon
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:39 am

FA9295 wrote:
Not too important, but worth noting that Sun Country's PDX-SFO flight is increasing from 2x weekly to 4x weekly starting June 9th.


I'd say that's a little important. Presumably, it means SY is seeing positive results in Portland, and on a highly competitive route no less.
 
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stl07
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:53 am

Kudos to SY for stepping up where AS refuses to (BNA, STL). It's not perfect but something is better than nothing.
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
lhpdx
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:26 am

stl07 wrote:
Kudos to SY for stepping up where AS refuses to (BNA, STL). It's not perfect but something is better than nothing.


Agreed...I'm surprised that SY didn't add a summer seasonal to ANC.......
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:26 am

lhpdx wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Kudos to SY for stepping up where AS refuses to (BNA, STL). It's not perfect but something is better than nothing.


Agreed...I'm surprised that SY didn't add a summer seasonal to ANC.......

Too much competition from AS on PDX-ANC. Their SEA-ANC route didn't even work out, and that particular route is very well known for literally having an infinite amount of demand. JetBlue barely survives on their PDX-ANC route.

With that being said, if SY wants to further expand at PDX, and make it into as big as an MSP style hub, they will eventually have to figure out a way to win over AS-loyalists and how to survive and properly compete against AS. Obviously, it would take years and years for them to build up such a hub, and I don't think that'll ever happen, at least, not nearly to the size of their MSP hub. Concourse D would probably have to be expanded quite a bit in order for that to work out. Don't they only use two gates right now? (I think they have D4 and D6, which are both oftentimes shared with Frontier and Spirit as well).

One thing that SY doesn't do in the Portland area is marketing for their flights. I haven't seen a single physical advertisement from them, whether it be TV commercials, billboards, or internet ads. Maybe other people have and I'm just not looking hard enough. I think if they invested some money into marketing for their flights here in Portland, then they certainly would have a fighting chance against AS. That way, maybe flights like PDX-MCO could be more successful for them in the future.
 
rainaviation
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:56 am

FA9295 wrote:
Not too important, but worth noting that Sun Country's PDX-SFO flight is increasing from 2x weekly to 4x weekly starting June 9th.


I think that it is important. They are also pushing HNL through the summer, keeping LAS in the summer, and with the three announced today that makes (if I am counting correctly) 7 summer routes and 6 winter routes. SY is looking to fill in the gaps in cities, they have made it very clear that they want to be a seasonal airline and are OK servicing routes for a few days a week for only a few months, as long as it makes them money.

The PDX market is undeserved IMO in many of the routes that they have started out of PDX. Now, they are just starting their expansions but 7 routes this summer when they only had MSP-PDX seasonal summer a few years back says something.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:40 am

rainaviation wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Not too important, but worth noting that Sun Country's PDX-SFO flight is increasing from 2x weekly to 4x weekly starting June 9th.


I think that it is important. They are also pushing HNL through the summer, keeping LAS in the summer, and with the three announced today that makes (if I am counting correctly) 7 summer routes and 6 winter routes. SY is looking to fill in the gaps in cities, they have made it very clear that they want to be a seasonal airline and are OK servicing routes for a few days a week for only a few months, as long as it makes them money.

The PDX market is undeserved IMO in many of the routes that they have started out of PDX. Now, they are just starting their expansions but 7 routes this summer when they only had MSP-PDX seasonal summer a few years back says something.


Couldn’t agree more. I have a feeling SY has more in store for Portland and they’ll deepen their commitment. I have heard some marketing and suspect they’ll push it more with these new routes.
 
lhpdx
Posts: 841
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:48 am

flyoregon wrote:
rainaviation wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Not too important, but worth noting that Sun Country's PDX-SFO flight is increasing from 2x weekly to 4x weekly starting June 9th.


I think that it is important. They are also pushing HNL through the summer, keeping LAS in the summer, and with the three announced today that makes (if I am counting correctly) 7 summer routes and 6 winter routes. SY is looking to fill in the gaps in cities, they have made it very clear that they want to be a seasonal airline and are OK servicing routes for a few days a week for only a few months, as long as it makes them money.

The PDX market is undeserved IMO in many of the routes that they have started out of PDX. Now, they are just starting their expansions but 7 routes this summer when they only had MSP-PDX seasonal summer a few years back says something.


Couldn’t agree more. I have a feeling SY has more in store for Portland and they’ll deepen their commitment. I have heard some marketing and suspect they’ll push it more with these new routes.


I'm on board with you guys on this...According to Sun Country CEO Jude Bricker stated that Nashville, Portland and Dallas-Fort Worth have become focal markets for the airline..It will be interesting to what other routes the airline is considering starting out those markets in the future..
 
pdx
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:10 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:57 am

Does anyone know if SY is getting passengers in/out of PDX? Whenever I look at a seat map they're
very empty...except maybe MSP. What happens if you don't buy a seat assignment in advance? Is it
free at check-in? I'm cautiously optimistic regarding PDX being a focus city...……………
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5252
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:15 am

flyoregon wrote:

I'd say that's a little important. Presumably, it means SY is seeing positive results in Portland, and on a highly competitive route no less.


SY with a F/A base here, will need to keep Portland connected to each part of their network. I imagine, it could be PDX based crew flying SFO-HNL-SFO.

The fares PDX-SFO on SY, I have seen daily in my inbox have been as low as $77 r/t.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
JPhoto
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 4:38 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:20 pm

pdx wrote:
Does anyone know if SY is getting passengers in/out of PDX? Whenever I look at a seat map they're
very empty...except maybe MSP. What happens if you don't buy a seat assignment in advance? Is it
free at check-in? I'm cautiously optimistic regarding PDX being a focus city...……………


I flew them recently to LAS and back, I was kinda sceptical but they were good flights, and full both ways. We did buy seats when booking but if you don't its free at check-in, although you might not sit next to your travel partner. We also payed $25 for a carry-on, but nobody looked at it or checked it when boarding. The best thing was the price of only $84 one way! Cheaper then Spirit on the same days and with times that suited us better.
Some friends also flew them to LAS and back around the same time and reported full flights as well.


I'm excited about their expansion in PDX, I'll probably fly them again in the future!
PDX-AMS
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:37 pm

lhpdx wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
rainaviation wrote:

I think that it is important. They are also pushing HNL through the summer, keeping LAS in the summer, and with the three announced today that makes (if I am counting correctly) 7 summer routes and 6 winter routes. SY is looking to fill in the gaps in cities, they have made it very clear that they want to be a seasonal airline and are OK servicing routes for a few days a week for only a few months, as long as it makes them money.

The PDX market is undeserved IMO in many of the routes that they have started out of PDX. Now, they are just starting their expansions but 7 routes this summer when they only had MSP-PDX seasonal summer a few years back says something.


Couldn’t agree more. I have a feeling SY has more in store for Portland and they’ll deepen their commitment. I have heard some marketing and suspect they’ll push it more with these new routes.


I'm on board with you guys on this...According to Sun Country CEO Jude Bricker stated that Nashville, Portland and Dallas-Fort Worth have become focal markets for the airline..It will be interesting to what other routes the airline is considering starting out those markets in the future..

By "not too important", I meant in comparison to the new route announcements. But you guys all make some very good points here. :D
 
rainaviation
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:36 am

pdx wrote:
Does anyone know if SY is getting passengers in/out of PDX? Whenever I look at a seat map they're
very empty...except maybe MSP. What happens if you don't buy a seat assignment in advance? Is it
free at check-in? I'm cautiously optimistic regarding PDX being a focus city...……………


They are getting passengers from PDX! You cannot look at a SY seat map to figure out loads, some people do not select seats ahead of time which is then free at check in. But here are a few loads from this next weeks flights...

1-9: PDX-HNL: 15 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-SFO: 35 of 183 seats remaining
1-10: PDX-PSP: 53 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-LAS: 6 of 183 seats remaining
1-12: PDX-MSP: 40 of 183 seats remaining

Now, this is just very select few days but for purposes of this. They are filling a plane from PDX to LAS and to HNL and pretty full to SFO in the next few days.
 
pdx
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:10 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:42 am

JPhoto wrote:
pdx wrote:
Does anyone know if SY is getting passengers in/out of PDX? Whenever I look at a seat map they're
very empty...except maybe MSP. What happens if you don't buy a seat assignment in advance? Is it
free at check-in? I'm cautiously optimistic regarding PDX being a focus city...……………


I flew them recently to LAS and back, I was kinda sceptical but they were good flights, and full both ways. We did buy seats when booking but if you don't its free at check-in, although you might not sit next to your travel partner. We also payed $25 for a carry-on, but nobody looked at it or checked it when boarding. The best thing was the price of only $84 one way! Cheaper then Spirit on the same days and with times that suited us better.
Some friends also flew them to LAS and back around the same time and reported full flights as well.


I'm excited about their expansion in PDX, I'll probably fly them again in the future!


Thanks! Glad to hear that. I'm really hoping their plans for PDX are successful. I'm a little worried it may
turn into another "PenAir" catastrophe. Btw, they only fly to 6 destinations in Alaska now. What were
they thinking???
 
pdx
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:10 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:48 am

rainaviation wrote:
pdx wrote:
Does anyone know if SY is getting passengers in/out of PDX? Whenever I look at a seat map they're
very empty...except maybe MSP. What happens if you don't buy a seat assignment in advance? Is it
free at check-in? I'm cautiously optimistic regarding PDX being a focus city...……………


They are getting passengers from PDX! You cannot look at a SY seat map to figure out loads, some people do not select seats ahead of time which is then free at check in. But here are a few loads from this next weeks flights...

1-9: PDX-HNL: 15 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-SFO: 35 of 183 seats remaining
1-10: PDX-PSP: 53 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-LAS: 6 of 183 seats remaining
1-12: PDX-MSP: 40 of 183 seats remaining

Now, this is just very select few days but for purposes of this. They are filling a plane from PDX to LAS and to HNL and pretty full to SFO in the next few days.


Great info...thanks a lot! I won't base loads on seat map usage like you can on the major airlines. Sounds like they're doing
ok. Fingers crossed! I think they can make it work if AS doesn't try to run them out of town. I think AS will try if they notice
their loads are decreasing.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:55 am

pdx wrote:
rainaviation wrote:
pdx wrote:
Does anyone know if SY is getting passengers in/out of PDX? Whenever I look at a seat map they're
very empty...except maybe MSP. What happens if you don't buy a seat assignment in advance? Is it
free at check-in? I'm cautiously optimistic regarding PDX being a focus city...……………


They are getting passengers from PDX! You cannot look at a SY seat map to figure out loads, some people do not select seats ahead of time which is then free at check in. But here are a few loads from this next weeks flights...

1-9: PDX-HNL: 15 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-SFO: 35 of 183 seats remaining
1-10: PDX-PSP: 53 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-LAS: 6 of 183 seats remaining
1-12: PDX-MSP: 40 of 183 seats remaining

Now, this is just very select few days but for purposes of this. They are filling a plane from PDX to LAS and to HNL and pretty full to SFO in the next few days.


Great info...thanks a lot! I won't base loads on seat map usage like you can on the major airlines. Sounds like they're doing
ok. Fingers crossed! I think they can make it work if AS doesn't try to run them out of town. I think AS will try if they notice
their loads are decreasing.


Just have to wait for PDX stats to truly know the loads. As for the PenAir comparison, I don’t think that’s remotely fair. PenAir was stretched too thin with 4 different bases that couldn’t be connected within their own route system. Plus using old Saab’s was unreliable, crews were hard to come across, and financially they were already in deep.

SY is a different ball game.
 
AS737MAX
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:48 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:35 am

FA9295 wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Kudos to SY for stepping up where AS refuses to (BNA, STL). It's not perfect but something is better than nothing.


Agreed...I'm surprised that SY didn't add a summer seasonal to ANC.......

Too much competition from AS on PDX-ANC. Their SEA-ANC route didn't even work out, and that particular route is very well known for literally having an infinite amount of demand. JetBlue barely survives on their PDX-ANC route.

With that being said, if SY wants to further expand at PDX, and make it into as big as an MSP style hub, they will eventually have to figure out a way to win over AS-loyalists and how to survive and properly compete against AS. Obviously, it would take years and years for them to build up such a hub, and I don't think that'll ever happen, at least, not nearly to the size of their MSP hub. Concourse D would probably have to be expanded quite a bit in order for that to work out. Don't they only use two gates right now? (I think they have D4 and D6, which are both oftentimes shared with Frontier and Spirit as well).

One thing that SY doesn't do in the Portland area is marketing for their flights. I haven't seen a single physical advertisement from them, whether it be TV commercials, billboards, or internet ads. Maybe other people have and I'm just not looking hard enough. I think if they invested some money into marketing for their flights here in Portland, then they certainly would have a fighting chance against AS. That way, maybe flights like PDX-MCO could be more successful for them in the future.


I haven’t gone through on the MAX in a few weeks, but they had lots of signage up at Sunset TC, big banner and a wrap on the elevators. Never saw anything else at least downtown though.
 
rainaviation
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:15 pm

pdx wrote:
rainaviation wrote:
pdx wrote:
Does anyone know if SY is getting passengers in/out of PDX? Whenever I look at a seat map they're
very empty...except maybe MSP. What happens if you don't buy a seat assignment in advance? Is it
free at check-in? I'm cautiously optimistic regarding PDX being a focus city...……………


They are getting passengers from PDX! You cannot look at a SY seat map to figure out loads, some people do not select seats ahead of time which is then free at check in. But here are a few loads from this next weeks flights...

1-9: PDX-HNL: 15 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-SFO: 35 of 183 seats remaining
1-10: PDX-PSP: 53 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-LAS: 6 of 183 seats remaining
1-12: PDX-MSP: 40 of 183 seats remaining

Now, this is just very select few days but for purposes of this. They are filling a plane from PDX to LAS and to HNL and pretty full to SFO in the next few days.


Great info...thanks a lot! I won't base loads on seat map usage like you can on the major airlines. Sounds like they're doing
ok. Fingers crossed! I think they can make it work if AS doesn't try to run them out of town. I think AS will try if they notice
their loads are decreasing.


No problem! They have to be doing OK in the market, or they wouldn't be expanding their offerings on current routes like SFO and HNL. I never saw PDX-SFO working and it was sorta a last minute thing anyway after RNO was suspended before it even started. They are expanding SFO to almost daily in the summer though, always surprises with SY.
 
pnwpdx
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:05 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:06 pm

flyoregon wrote:
pdx wrote:
rainaviation wrote:

They are getting passengers from PDX! You cannot look at a SY seat map to figure out loads, some people do not select seats ahead of time which is then free at check in. But here are a few loads from this next weeks flights...

1-9: PDX-HNL: 15 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-SFO: 35 of 183 seats remaining
1-10: PDX-PSP: 53 of 183 seats remaining
1-11: PDX-LAS: 6 of 183 seats remaining
1-12: PDX-MSP: 40 of 183 seats remaining

Now, this is just very select few days but for purposes of this. They are filling a plane from PDX to LAS and to HNL and pretty full to SFO in the next few days.


Great info...thanks a lot! I won't base loads on seat map usage like you can on the major airlines. Sounds like they're doing
ok. Fingers crossed! I think they can make it work if AS doesn't try to run them out of town. I think AS will try if they notice
their loads are decreasing.


Just have to wait for PDX stats to truly know the loads. As for the PenAir comparison, I don’t think that’s remotely fair. PenAir was stretched too thin with 4 different bases that couldn’t be connected within their own route system. Plus using old Saab’s was unreliable, crews were hard to come across, and financially they were already in deep.

SY is a different ball game.


With that said, do we know when the Port will release the December 2018 and final 2018 passenger numbers? I'm curious how close we got to 20 million or if we hit it!
Next Flight:
PDX-NRT-PDX on DL
PDX-SEA-YVR-SEA-PDX on DL
PDX-SEA-HNL-SEA-PDX on DL
PDX-MSP-ORD-SEA-PDX on DL
 
flyoregon
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:08 pm

pnwpdx wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
pdx wrote:

Great info...thanks a lot! I won't base loads on seat map usage like you can on the major airlines. Sounds like they're doing
ok. Fingers crossed! I think they can make it work if AS doesn't try to run them out of town. I think AS will try if they notice
their loads are decreasing.


Just have to wait for PDX stats to truly know the loads. As for the PenAir comparison, I don’t think that’s remotely fair. PenAir was stretched too thin with 4 different bases that couldn’t be connected within their own route system. Plus using old Saab’s was unreliable, crews were hard to come across, and financially they were already in deep.

SY is a different ball game.


With that said, do we know when the Port will release the December 2018 and final 2018 passenger numbers? I'm curious how close we got to 20 million or if we hit it!


They usually come out around the 20th each month
 
Chugach
Posts: 1193
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:59 pm

pdx wrote:
JPhoto wrote:
pdx wrote:
Does anyone know if SY is getting passengers in/out of PDX? Whenever I look at a seat map they're
very empty...except maybe MSP. What happens if you don't buy a seat assignment in advance? Is it
free at check-in? I'm cautiously optimistic regarding PDX being a focus city...……………


I flew them recently to LAS and back, I was kinda sceptical but they were good flights, and full both ways. We did buy seats when booking but if you don't its free at check-in, although you might not sit next to your travel partner. We also payed $25 for a carry-on, but nobody looked at it or checked it when boarding. The best thing was the price of only $84 one way! Cheaper then Spirit on the same days and with times that suited us better.
Some friends also flew them to LAS and back around the same time and reported full flights as well.


I'm excited about their expansion in PDX, I'll probably fly them again in the future!


Thanks! Glad to hear that. I'm really hoping their plans for PDX are successful. I'm a little worried it may
turn into another "PenAir" catastrophe. Btw, they only fly to 6 destinations in Alaska now. What were
they thinking???


Penair was bought out of bankruptcy by the Ravn Air Group in Alaska. There is a lot of schedule syncing going on between 7H and KS now, and not all of it is going well.

https://www.kdlg.org/post/flights-cancelled-without-notification-strand-bristol-bay-passengers-anchorage-during-holidays
 
flyoregon
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:22 pm

Chugach wrote:
pdx wrote:
JPhoto wrote:

I flew them recently to LAS and back, I was kinda sceptical but they were good flights, and full both ways. We did buy seats when booking but if you don't its free at check-in, although you might not sit next to your travel partner. We also payed $25 for a carry-on, but nobody looked at it or checked it when boarding. The best thing was the price of only $84 one way! Cheaper then Spirit on the same days and with times that suited us better.
Some friends also flew them to LAS and back around the same time and reported full flights as well.


I'm excited about their expansion in PDX, I'll probably fly them again in the future!


Thanks! Glad to hear that. I'm really hoping their plans for PDX are successful. I'm a little worried it may
turn into another "PenAir" catastrophe. Btw, they only fly to 6 destinations in Alaska now. What were
they thinking???


Penair was bought out of bankruptcy by the Ravn Air Group in Alaska. There is a lot of schedule syncing going on between 7H and KS now, and not all of it is going well.

https://www.kdlg.org/post/flights-cancelled-without-notification-strand-bristol-bay-passengers-anchorage-during-holidays


Right, which is why a comparison between Sun Country and Pen Air isn't fair. Two completely different operations in so many ways.

On a related note, I wouldn't be surprised to see BNA, SAT, and maybe STL go year-round for SY. I think Sun Country is doing it smart by testing out the market with a less than daily schedule and building it up from there. We've seen it so many times where an airline goes all in on a route, only to end it not too long after.
 
User avatar
m0ssy
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:29 pm

Hello From EUG! Hope all are well!

Image
Follow me on Instagram! @eug_spotter :airplane:
 
Chugach
Posts: 1193
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:14 pm

lhpdx wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Kudos to SY for stepping up where AS refuses to (BNA, STL). It's not perfect but something is better than nothing.


Agreed...I'm surprised that SY didn't add a summer seasonal to ANC.......


If B6 ever decides to give up on PDX-ANC, I think we will see SY, or maybe even DL, jump on it. There’s room for a second carrier in addition to AS, but not much more.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:44 pm

Chugach wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Kudos to SY for stepping up where AS refuses to (BNA, STL). It's not perfect but something is better than nothing.


Agreed...I'm surprised that SY didn't add a summer seasonal to ANC.......


If B6 ever decides to give up on PDX-ANC, I think we will see SY, or maybe even DL, jump on it. There’s room for a second carrier in addition to AS, but not much more.


Historically, there seems to have always been a second carrier. I remember Continental, TWA (?), Alaska of course, and B6 in my time. Did Wien Air fly to ANC from PDX? I think SY would make sense, but so does Delta. I think Delta has a lot of opportunity in Portland that's untapped.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1193
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:31 pm

flyoregon wrote:
Chugach wrote:
lhpdx wrote:

Agreed...I'm surprised that SY didn't add a summer seasonal to ANC.......


If B6 ever decides to give up on PDX-ANC, I think we will see SY, or maybe even DL, jump on it. There’s room for a second carrier in addition to AS, but not much more.


Historically, there seems to have always been a second carrier. I remember Continental, TWA (?), Alaska of course, and B6 in my time. Did Wien Air fly to ANC from PDX? I think SY would make sense, but so does Delta. I think Delta has a lot of opportunity in Portland that's untapped.


DL has flown it twice in my lifetime. They had it in the 90’s when they had their hublet at PDX, and they did it a few years ago for one summer season.

TW did it after DL cut it when they de-hubbed PDX, I think all the way up to when AA bought them. CO picked it up after TW left and ran it off and on for several years, I think stopping before the UA merger. AS had it to themselves until B6 started it in, I believe, 2015.

I don’t think QQ ever did PDX-ANC nonstop, but I know they ran same plane service PDX-SEA-ANC.

AS has gradually built up the route over the years. It goes 4X daily in peak summer season, 2X or 3X daily for the rest of the year.
 
User avatar
PDXPOL
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:47 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:31 am

pnwpdx wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
pdx wrote:

Great info...thanks a lot! I won't base loads on seat map usage like you can on the major airlines. Sounds like they're doing
ok. Fingers crossed! I think they can make it work if AS doesn't try to run them out of town. I think AS will try if they notice
their loads are decreasing.


Just have to wait for PDX stats to truly know the loads. As for the PenAir comparison, I don’t think that’s remotely fair. PenAir was stretched too thin with 4 different bases that couldn’t be connected within their own route system. Plus using old Saab’s was unreliable, crews were hard to come across, and financially they were already in deep.

SY is a different ball game.


With that said, do we know when the Port will release the December 2018 and final 2018 passenger numbers? I'm curious how close we got to 20 million or if we hit it!



I watched the commission meeting from the Ports web page. The executive report, Curtis mentioned the exact numbers are not yet out, but it will be right around 19.9 million.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 641
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:42 am

PDXPOL wrote:
pnwpdx wrote:
flyoregon wrote:

Just have to wait for PDX stats to truly know the loads. As for the PenAir comparison, I don’t think that’s remotely fair. PenAir was stretched too thin with 4 different bases that couldn’t be connected within their own route system. Plus using old Saab’s was unreliable, crews were hard to come across, and financially they were already in deep.

SY is a different ball game.


With that said, do we know when the Port will release the December 2018 and final 2018 passenger numbers? I'm curious how close we got to 20 million or if we hit it!



I watched the commission meeting from the Ports web page. The executive report, Curtis mentioned the exact numbers are not yet out, but it will be right around 19.9 million.


What I found interesting in reading the Executive Directors report is the leased space for United. I know it’s been talked about before, but does anyone have any information on it I.e. aircraft to be maintained, where exactly is the hangar, and most of all, why PDX? Is SFO and LAX out of mtx space?

Also, the fact that CR was gone on a trip to Asia for “carrier meetings”. How many of these trips does the PoP or state government need to go on before someone actually pulls the trigger?
 
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bigfoot0503
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:27 am

flyoregon wrote:
Chugach wrote:
lhpdx wrote:

Agreed...I'm surprised that SY didn't add a summer seasonal to ANC.......


If B6 ever decides to give up on PDX-ANC, I think we will see SY, or maybe even DL, jump on it. There’s room for a second carrier in addition to AS, but not much more.


Historically, there seems to have always been a second carrier. I remember Continental, TWA (?), Alaska of course, and B6 in my time. Did Wien Air fly to ANC from PDX? I think SY would make sense, but so does Delta. I think Delta has a lot of opportunity in Portland that's untapped.


Perhaps RWA380 can confirm...I'm pretty certain that for those that remember it...Mark Air did at least a seasonal n/s for a time from PDX-ANC. When I worked for Continental in Las Vegas in the early 1990's we did the ground handling for Mark Air and I seem to recall a LAS-PDX-ANC run.
 
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PDXPOL
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:09 am

flyoregon wrote:
PDXPOL wrote:
pnwpdx wrote:

With that said, do we know when the Port will release the December 2018 and final 2018 passenger numbers? I'm curious how close we got to 20 million or if we hit it!



I watched the commission meeting from the Ports web page. The executive report, Curtis mentioned the exact numbers are not yet out, but it will be right around 19.9 million.


What I found interesting in reading the Executive Directors report is the leased space for United. I know it’s been talked about before, but does anyone have any information on it I.e. aircraft to be maintained, where exactly is the hangar, and most of all, why PDX? Is SFO and LAX out of mtx space?

Also, the fact that CR was gone on a trip to Asia for “carrier meetings”. How many of these trips does the PoP or state government need to go on before someone actually pulls the trigger?



I posted in the 2018 forum about the inspection being done by United personnel and the hanger. Someone replied saying they do "B" checks on the A320's here. I see the maintenance crew out every evening at gate E4 with an A320 and all the engine and compartments open. I am not a mechanic so I do not know what involves a B check, or even if I am correct on the type of check.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:36 am

I am sure that Wien never had a non-stop, everything from the lower 48 routed via Seattle. I can’t recall Markair flying it either, but I am not 100% on it. I know TW flew it, I took that with my buddy who used to work for them at PDX & got upgraded both ways. Great service, the MD-87’s were among a handful in the TW fleet equipped for the overwater operation allowing them a more direct route, instead of coast hugging.

TW obtained a US Mail contract to haul lots of mail on a daily basis & that was inherited from CO, IIRC.

Regarding both Wien & Markair, neither may have made it this far, but both killed themselves trying to expand, too quickly with one or two flights a day into a lot of lower 48 destinations.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
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ramprat74
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm

The United hangar might not happen now. The current problem is the whole ANG base uses one meter for all its water and one meter for electricity.The Port wants United to foot the bill to split these utilities which will cost 2 million plus. The Port rather have empty unused spaces rather then helping companies use these spaces which have been vacant for years.
 
flyoregon
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:02 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
ramprat74 wrote:
The United hangar might not happen now. The current problem is the whole ANG base uses one meter for all its water and one meter for electricity.The Port wants United to foot the bill to split these utilities which will cost 2 million plus. The Port rather have empty unused spaces rather then helping companies use these spaces which have been vacant for years.


From the report:

United Air Lines, Inc. – Repair and Reimbursement Contract
Location: Term: Use: PDX
Effective November 14, 2018
Ten-year lease with two five-year options for the purpose of aircraft storage, maintenance and repair, associated hangar repair and reimbursement agreement with the Port contributing $2 million.
 
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ramprat74
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:05 pm

The utilities issue was found out after that November 14th report. That first 2 million was agreed when they found a buried fuel tank the Port knew nothing about. United is about to walk on the whole deal now.
 
lhpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:50 pm

ramprat74 wrote:
The utilities issue was found out after that November 14th report. That first 2 million was agreed when they found a buried fuel tank the Port knew nothing about. United is about to walk on the whole deal now.



Well, that was fast..I sure hope United and the POP can come up with some kind of an agreement........
 
derek0aa
Posts: 18
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:37 pm

Does anybody know why a C-32 is parked in front of the Flightcraft hanger at PDX right now? I was driving down Marine Drive and it was a nice little surprise.
 
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rosecityspotter
Posts: 42
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:54 am

m0ssy wrote:
Hello From EUG! Hope all are well!

Image


I like the HDR edit on this. Very dramatic
 
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rosecityspotter
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:55 am

derek0aa wrote:
Does anybody know why a C-32 is parked in front of the Flightcraft hanger at PDX right now? I was driving down Marine Drive and it was a nice little surprise.


It came in around 1:30 today. Can’t offer any more insight than that.
 
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rosecityspotter
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:56 am

Some hornets came into PDX this evening around 4:00. Overheard break on 10R and went to Atlantic. Not sure what unit but they were single seaters... Not sure if Legacy Hornets or E model Supers.
 
PDX757
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:59 am

Here’s a whacky G4 thought. Does anyone think they would consider HIO as an entry into the Portland market? PDX can be a pain to get to from the west side, especially during high traffic times.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:36 am

PDX757 wrote:
Here’s a whacky G4 thought. Does anyone think they would consider HIO as an entry into the Portland market? PDX can be a pain to get to from the west side, especially during high traffic times.


HIO has no passenger facility & has no intention to build one. QX has looked at flying HIO-SEA several times & HIO wants AAG to pay for it’s own space to be built.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
flyoregon
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:15 am

PDX757 wrote:
Here’s a whacky G4 thought. Does anyone think they would consider HIO as an entry into the Portland market? PDX can be a pain to get to from the west side, especially during high traffic times.


Won’t happen. PoP wants it as a corporate airport. They’re not going to make any facility improvements to the airpor, and the community wouldn’t be too thrilled either. They went nuts over the second runway. Can you imagine airline service? If airline service were to happen at HIO, it would likely be from the likes of a carrier like JetSuiteX.
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:19 am

RWA380 wrote:
PDX757 wrote:
Here’s a whacky G4 thought. Does anyone think they would consider HIO as an entry into the Portland market? PDX can be a pain to get to from the west side, especially during high traffic times.


HIO has no passenger facility & has no intention to build one. QX has looked at flying HIO-SEA several times & HIO wants AAG to pay for it’s own space to be built.



Well, to clarify, they do plan to build a new terminal, with expanded facilities and parking, primarily for business and charter clients, but such a facility could likely also be adapted for commercial flights as I have seen done at some other G4 stations that rely on FBO crews for their ground work. The facility will be 25,000 square feet and re-aligned from the existing facility, which will be razed.

http://cdn.portofportland.com/pdfs/HIO% ... .18.18.pdf

Take a look at Pages 59-76 for a bit more detail on that.

While this doesn't specifically mean G4 would consider HIO, it does mean that HIO would theoretically be capable if it came down to that. You'd just need screeners.
 
flyoregon
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:40 am

Aloha717200 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
PDX757 wrote:
Here’s a whacky G4 thought. Does anyone think they would consider HIO as an entry into the Portland market? PDX can be a pain to get to from the west side, especially during high traffic times.


HIO has no passenger facility & has no intention to build one. QX has looked at flying HIO-SEA several times & HIO wants AAG to pay for it’s own space to be built.



Well, to clarify, they do plan to build a new terminal, with expanded facilities and parking, primarily for business and charter clients, but such a facility could likely also be adapted for commercial flights as I have seen done at some other G4 stations that rely on FBO crews for their ground work. The facility will be 25,000 square feet and re-aligned from the existing facility, which will be razed.

http://cdn.portofportland.com/pdfs/HIO% ... .18.18.pdf

Take a look at Pages 59-76 for a bit more detail on that.

While this doesn't specifically mean G4 would consider HIO, it does mean that HIO would theoretically be capable if it came down to that. You'd just need screeners.


The primary tenant will be Intel’s air shuttle. If an airline does start service at HIO, then awesome, I just don’t see it happening anytime soon. Love to be wrong
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5252
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:42 am

Aloha717200 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
PDX757 wrote:
Here’s a whacky G4 thought. Does anyone think they would consider HIO as an entry into the Portland market? PDX can be a pain to get to from the west side, especially during high traffic times.


HIO has no passenger facility & has no intention to build one. QX has looked at flying HIO-SEA several times & HIO wants AAG to pay for it’s own space to be built.



Well, to clarify, they do plan to build a new terminal, with expanded facilities and parking, primarily for business and charter clients, but such a facility could likely also be adapted for commercial flights as I have seen done at some other G4 stations that rely on FBO crews for their ground work. The facility will be 25,000 square feet and re-aligned from the existing facility, which will be razed.

http://cdn.portofportland.com/pdfs/HIO% ... .18.18.pdf

Take a look at Pages 59-76 for a bit more detail on that.

While this doesn't specifically mean G4 would consider HIO, it does mean that HIO would theoretically be capable if it came down to that. You'd just need screeners.


One other thing it would need is parking, ample parking. Both long term & short term. IDK if that is included in their master plan. I do know if the PoP is creating a passenger facility it will be geared towards private operations & as of now, there is no intention for it to become a passenger airport. While I won’t argue that in the future it could happen, I’d bet QX up to SEA 4-5 times a day would help the tech corridor best, much like a PAE operation & those are the customers a carrier needs to target. I know I’d fly out of HIO if I’d the chance.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
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jbpdx
Posts: 633
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:45 pm

Any reports of TSA backups or delays at PDX this weekend?
Airlines I won’t fly again: F9, AA
 
pdxav8r
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:15 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:14 am

Loved the long gone days of flying privately out of Eagle Aviation, and having lunch/dinner at Richenbackers while watching ramp/arrival/departure activity below. Looks like the master plan includes more parking whatever is decided. The cramped area for the Intel flights is terrible. Remember multiple Intel planes in front on many occasions, E145’s and Beech 1900’s, and people standing around with so little seating.
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1770
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:29 am

PDX757 wrote:
Here’s a whacky G4 thought. Does anyone think they would consider HIO as an entry into the Portland market? PDX can be a pain to get to from the west side, especially during high traffic times.

I had actually thought about this before. I was at the airport not too long ago (not for any particular reason, but I drove by and thought I'd do some spotting there for a few minutes).

Anyhow, I'm sure the community there wouldn't be too thrilled with it, and neither would the PoP, tbh. Although Intel may benifit from it.

I'm not too familiar with the runway lengths there. Could a G4 A319 even land/take off there?
 
seb146
Posts: 19176
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:45 am

FA9295 wrote:
PDX757 wrote:
Here’s a whacky G4 thought. Does anyone think they would consider HIO as an entry into the Portland market? PDX can be a pain to get to from the west side, especially during high traffic times.

I had actually thought about this before. I was at the airport not too long ago (not for any particular reason, but I drove by and thought I'd do some spotting there for a few minutes).

Anyhow, I'm sure the community there wouldn't be too thrilled with it, and neither would the PoP, tbh. Although Intel may benifit from it.

I'm not too familiar with the runway lengths there. Could a G4 A319 even land/take off there?


There had been talk of upgrading HIO to handle more cargo but, of course, NIMBYs started crying. I wonder if QX could have flights HIO to SEA, EUG, MFR, and GEG? Or even just HIO-SEA?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
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