Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2019

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue May 14, 2019 11:22 pm

jplatts wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
RAP should do fine, G4 has operated from AZA since they opened up shop! I hope to see FAR, CID & BIS soon, outside of the obvious BNA & MSY.

This would make 20 new routes from AA since the merger

In addition to PHX-FAR/CID/BIS/BNA/MSY, other possible adds by AA out of PHX include PHX-BUF, PHX-CVG, PHX-LIT, PHX-SDF, PHX-TUL, and PHX-ICT.

There are still many WN frequent flyers in Greater Phoenix who prefer to fly WN over AA due to WN having nonstop service out of PHX to destinations such as BUF, MDW, CLE, DAL, FLL, HOU, LIT, SDF, BNA, MSY, TUL, and ICT that aren't served nonstop out of PHX on AA.

There are some adds that could be made by WN out of PHX, including (a) the return of PHX-BOS nonstop service, (b) extension of PHX-CVG nonstop service to daily, year-round nonstop service, and (c) the addition of PHX-CLT, PHX-GRR, PHX-BDL, PHX-HNL, PHX-LGB, PHX-MEM, and PHX-IAD nonstop service. WN does need to add some more nonstop routes out of PHX in order to defend market share against AA in the PHX market.

BUF - PHX has been a huge moneymaker for WN ...... AA would be smart to try competing against WN and start direct flights. WN averages 90% seat utilization each month with this route.

AA is starting to tap into the Buffalo market more ..... with MIA DFW PHL and CHI. So AA from BUF - PHX doesnt seem impossible.

kearnet · Tue May 21, 2019 6:37 am

Driving through the other day, I was pleasantly surprised to see the scope of work being done on T3N. From what I'd read I thought they were merely going to change out the carpet, slap on some new paint, build the club, and call it a day.

Instead they've stripped almost the whole thing down to the structural members, including the pedestrian bridge. There is a healthy amount of cladding and roof left, but everything else appears completely gutted.

I was supposed to get my first airside look at T3S at the end of the month, but that trip's been postponed by 2 months. Still hoping to get one last flight out of T2 before it's gone.

Also, the Sky train extension is progressing nicely too.

I'm still not sure I i like the new landscaping though.

cathay747 · Tue May 21, 2019 12:55 pm

Retired AA 757 N603AA came in to GYR yesterday a bit past 1600 (flew right over our house in Avondale on downwind leg)...curiously it came from ROW. Maybe this indicates the old bird will be getting a new lease on life with somebody?

MO11 · Tue May 21, 2019 1:21 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Retired AA 757 N603AA came in to GYR yesterday a bit past 1600 (flew right over our house in Avondale on downwind leg)...curiously it came from ROW. Maybe this indicates the old bird will be getting a new lease on life with somebody?

This one, along with seven others, were sold to AFO Airwork (NZ). They will all be freighters. The first two went to Aviastar Tu.

cathay747 · Tue May 21, 2019 4:40 pm

MO11 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Retired AA 757 N603AA came in to GYR yesterday a bit past 1600 (flew right over our house in Avondale on downwind leg)...curiously it came from ROW. Maybe this indicates the old bird will be getting a new lease on life with somebody?

This one, along with seven others, were sold to AFO Airwork (NZ). They will all be freighters. The first two went to Aviastar Tu.

Ah, OK then! Thanks. Wonder what work will be done at GYR? I'm not aware of GYR being capable of performing a pax-to-freighter conversion.

B747forever · Tue May 21, 2019 4:43 pm

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but with the W20 timetable BA will switch the PHX rotation to 787-9 and transfer the flight from T3 to T5 at LHR.

910A · Tue May 21, 2019 4:55 pm

B747forever wrote:
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but with the W20 timetable BA will switch the PHX rotation to 787-9 and transfer the flight from T3 to T5 at LHR.

Is this for just the winter season, I thought it was mentioned before that a 77W will be flying the route starting with the summer schedule.

SeanM1997 · Tue May 21, 2019 5:44 pm

910A wrote:
B747forever wrote:
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but with the W20 timetable BA will switch the PHX rotation to 787-9 and transfer the flight from T3 to T5 at LHR.

Is this for just the winter season, I thought it was mentioned before that a 77W will be flying the route starting with the summer schedule.

I believe LHR-PHX will be permanently kept at Terminal 5. Currently, it is planned to be 789 in W19 and 77W in S20, subject to change. Part of the plan is for San Diego (SAN) to be operated by 747 year-round, hence that flight moving to Terminal 3. Its near enough a straight swap as SAN operates a 77W in S19 and operated a 789 in W18

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/11 ... 7502587904

YYZORD · Tue May 21, 2019 5:47 pm

You can thank Canadians for the huge increase in flights at BUF. Heck I use BUF a lot when I want to avoid YYZ. WN and B6 win me over AC anyday.

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
RAP should do fine, G4 has operated from AZA since they opened up shop! I hope to see FAR, CID & BIS soon, outside of the obvious BNA & MSY.

This would make 20 new routes from AA since the merger

In addition to PHX-FAR/CID/BIS/BNA/MSY, other possible adds by AA out of PHX include PHX-BUF, PHX-CVG, PHX-LIT, PHX-SDF, PHX-TUL, and PHX-ICT.

There are still many WN frequent flyers in Greater Phoenix who prefer to fly WN over AA due to WN having nonstop service out of PHX to destinations such as BUF, MDW, CLE, DAL, FLL, HOU, LIT, SDF, BNA, MSY, TUL, and ICT that aren't served nonstop out of PHX on AA.

There are some adds that could be made by WN out of PHX, including (a) the return of PHX-BOS nonstop service, (b) extension of PHX-CVG nonstop service to daily, year-round nonstop service, and (c) the addition of PHX-CLT, PHX-GRR, PHX-BDL, PHX-HNL, PHX-LGB, PHX-MEM, and PHX-IAD nonstop service. WN does need to add some more nonstop routes out of PHX in order to defend market share against AA in the PHX market.

BUF - PHX has been a huge moneymaker for WN ...... AA would be smart to try competing against WN and start direct flights. WN averages 90% seat utilization each month with this route.

AA is starting to tap into the Buffalo market more ..... with MIA DFW PHL and CHI. So AA from BUF - PHX doesnt seem impossible.

MO11 · Tue May 21, 2019 5:48 pm

cathay747 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Retired AA 757 N603AA came in to GYR yesterday a bit past 1600 (flew right over our house in Avondale on downwind leg)...curiously it came from ROW. Maybe this indicates the old bird will be getting a new lease on life with somebody?

This one, along with seven others, were sold to AFO Airwork (NZ). They will all be freighters. The first two went to Aviastar Tu.

Ah, OK then! Thanks. Wonder what work will be done at GYR? I'm not aware of GYR being capable of performing a pax-to-freighter conversion.

Actually, several conversions have been done at GYR.

Buffalomatt1027 · Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 am

YYZORD wrote:
You can thank Canadians for the huge increase in flights at BUF. Heck I use BUF a lot when I want to avoid YYZ. WN and B6 win me over AC anyday.

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

In addition to PHX-FAR/CID/BIS/BNA/MSY, other possible adds by AA out of PHX include PHX-BUF, PHX-CVG, PHX-LIT, PHX-SDF, PHX-TUL, and PHX-ICT.

There are still many WN frequent flyers in Greater Phoenix who prefer to fly WN over AA due to WN having nonstop service out of PHX to destinations such as BUF, MDW, CLE, DAL, FLL, HOU, LIT, SDF, BNA, MSY, TUL, and ICT that aren't served nonstop out of PHX on AA.

There are some adds that could be made by WN out of PHX, including (a) the return of PHX-BOS nonstop service, (b) extension of PHX-CVG nonstop service to daily, year-round nonstop service, and (c) the addition of PHX-CLT, PHX-GRR, PHX-BDL, PHX-HNL, PHX-LGB, PHX-MEM, and PHX-IAD nonstop service. WN does need to add some more nonstop routes out of PHX in order to defend market share against AA in the PHX market.

BUF - PHX has been a huge moneymaker for WN ...... AA would be smart to try competing against WN and start direct flights. WN averages 90% seat utilization each month with this route.

AA is starting to tap into the Buffalo market more ..... with MIA DFW PHL and CHI. So AA from BUF - PHX doesnt seem impossible.

You definitely arent wrong .....almost 40% of the passengers are Canadian that fly out of Buffalo.

cathay747 · Wed May 22, 2019 12:00 pm

With regard to above posts, which I'm only seeing early this morning, and about which I'm stunned, it's also officially on Routes Online this morning...

British Airways in this week’s schedule update moved forward planned Boeing 747-400 aircraft replacement on London Heathrow – Phoenix route. At the start of winter 2019/20 schedule from 27OCT19, Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft will operate this route, replacing the 747.

Following schedule effective 03NOV19 – 07MAR20.

BA289 LHR1430 – 1830PHX 789 D
BA288 PHX2040 – 1335+1LHR 789 D

Previously highlighted on Airlineroute, the oneWorld carrier’s preliminary schedule listing in summer 2020 season from 29MAR20 is displaying Boeing 777-300ER operation for this route.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/

Didn't see this coming!

And moving it to T5 at LHR will obviously/certainly make connections easier!

MO11 · Wed May 22, 2019 5:48 pm

kearnet wrote:
I was supposed to get my first airside look at T3S at the end of the month, but that trip's been postponed by 2 months.

Well, I'll tell you that it's a long walk from the ticket counters to F10, and from F10 to baggage claim.

alasizon · Wed May 22, 2019 6:07 pm

The downgrade to the 789 (as opposed to the 77W) was likely made possible by extending AA to year-round. I'm still not sold on it being the right Winter capacity if bookings were truly as strong as they were quoted.

TVNWZ · Wed May 22, 2019 7:09 pm

I just used the PHX Sky Train for the first time to go from Terminal 3 to 4. What a major pain. My wife and I came in separately landing about the same time I was on DL she was on AA. I told her I would meet her in T-4 baggage claim. Walked east the whole length of T-3, turned north to get the center and then walk back west the whole length of T-3 to then go south. Took forever.
Then when the train takes you to T-4 you have to navigate an escalator and then find an elevator down to baggage claim. Not very user friendly.

T-3 is beautiful though.

alasizon · Wed May 22, 2019 10:06 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
I just used the PHX Sky Train for the first time to go from Terminal 3 to 4. What a major pain. My wife and I came in separately landing about the same time I was on DL she was on AA. I told her I would meet her in T-4 baggage claim. Walked east the whole length of T-3, turned north to get the center and then walk back west the whole length of T-3 to then go south. Took forever.
Then when the train takes you to T-4 you have to navigate an escalator and then find an elevator down to baggage claim. Not very user friendly.

T-3 is beautiful though.

You are probably one of the few people I've ever heard say the SkyTrain isn't user friendly. Signage is pretty clear but its targeted more towards departing passengers getting off as the # of passengers using the SkyTrain to get to baggage claim is near zero.

uconn99 · Wed May 22, 2019 10:30 pm

Flew out of Terminal 3 in April, wow what an improvement over the old terminal. It was a very nice surprise to see after spending close to 10 years living in Phoenix.

Vctony · Wed May 22, 2019 11:00 pm

alasizon wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
I just used the PHX Sky Train for the first time to go from Terminal 3 to 4. What a major pain. My wife and I came in separately landing about the same time I was on DL she was on AA. I told her I would meet her in T-4 baggage claim. Walked east the whole length of T-3, turned north to get the center and then walk back west the whole length of T-3 to then go south. Took forever.
Then when the train takes you to T-4 you have to navigate an escalator and then find an elevator down to baggage claim. Not very user friendly.

T-3 is beautiful though.

You are probably one of the few people I've ever heard say the SkyTrain isn't user friendly. Signage is pretty clear but its targeted more towards departing passengers getting off as the # of passengers using the SkyTrain to get to baggage claim is near zero.

I'd argue that the Sky Train is a pain in the butt if someone is traveling with checked bags and has to use a baggage claim.

The signage is not great at the baggage claim level on Terminal 3 or Terminal 4 and it's a trek back up past where the passenger just came from.

Ultimately, they've done the best that they could shoehorning it to the existing terminals, but it's clear that it was not included in the original design plans for the terminals.

airzona11 · Wed May 22, 2019 11:19 pm

cathay747 wrote:
With regard to above posts, which I'm only seeing early this morning, and about which I'm stunned, it's also officially on Routes Online this morning...

British Airways in this week’s schedule update moved forward planned Boeing 747-400 aircraft replacement on London Heathrow – Phoenix route. At the start of winter 2019/20 schedule from 27OCT19, Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft will operate this route, replacing the 747.

Following schedule effective 03NOV19 – 07MAR20.

BA289 LHR1430 – 1830PHX 789 D
BA288 PHX2040 – 1335+1LHR 789 D

Previously highlighted on Airlineroute, the oneWorld carrier’s preliminary schedule listing in summer 2020 season from 29MAR20 is displaying Boeing 777-300ER operation for this route.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/

Didn't see this coming!

And moving it to T5 at LHR will obviously/certainly make connections easier!

Interesting, now even less time to get those upper deck flights on the BA 744 into PHX. Hoping part of the year we get those 77Ws, add some variety to PHX.

TVNWZ · Thu May 23, 2019 12:00 am

alasizon wrote:

You are probably one of the few people I've ever heard say the SkyTrain isn't user friendly. Signage is pretty clear but its targeted more towards departing passengers getting off as the # of passengers using the SkyTrain to get to baggage claim is near zero.

No. Signage was not clear. There was a guide at one point to show the way.
Four other travelers were trying to get to T-4 baggage claim also. So. >zero.

BA744PHX · Thu May 23, 2019 2:07 am

alasizon wrote:
The downgrade to the 789 (as opposed to the 77W) was likely made possible by extending AA to year-round. I'm still not sold on it being the right Winter capacity if bookings were truly as strong as they were quoted.

Looking at the seats the only significant decrease is Y, otherwise other classes are not much different. If anything I would say they are maintaining their premium seats and dumping Y

789
F-8, J-42, W-39, Y-127, total 216, 1/4 is F&J

773
F-14, J-56, W-44, Y-185, total 299, 1/4 is F&J

744
F-14, J-52, W-36, Y-235, total 337 1/5 is F&J

1337Delta764 · Thu May 23, 2019 2:11 am

Vctony wrote:
alasizon wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
I just used the PHX Sky Train for the first time to go from Terminal 3 to 4. What a major pain. My wife and I came in separately landing about the same time I was on DL she was on AA. I told her I would meet her in T-4 baggage claim. Walked east the whole length of T-3, turned north to get the center and then walk back west the whole length of T-3 to then go south. Took forever.
Then when the train takes you to T-4 you have to navigate an escalator and then find an elevator down to baggage claim. Not very user friendly.

T-3 is beautiful though.

You are probably one of the few people I've ever heard say the SkyTrain isn't user friendly. Signage is pretty clear but its targeted more towards departing passengers getting off as the # of passengers using the SkyTrain to get to baggage claim is near zero.

I'd argue that the Sky Train is a pain in the butt if someone is traveling with checked bags and has to use a baggage claim.

The signage is not great at the baggage claim level on Terminal 3 or Terminal 4 and it's a trek back up past where the passenger just came from.

Ultimately, they've done the best that they could shoehorning it to the existing terminals, but it's clear that it was not included in the original design plans for the terminals.

I am pretty sure that had they gone with the original plan of building one large terminal to replace both T2 and T3 it would have had a more optimized layout. Perhaps the new West Terminal proposal, if built, will have a more optimized layout.

MO11 · Thu May 23, 2019 2:40 am

cathay747 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Retired AA 757 N603AA came in to GYR yesterday a bit past 1600 (flew right over our house in Avondale on downwind leg)...curiously it came from ROW. Maybe this indicates the old bird will be getting a new lease on life with somebody?

This one, along with seven others, were sold to AFO Airwork (NZ). They will all be freighters. The first two went to Aviastar Tu.

Ah, OK then! Thanks. Wonder what work will be done at GYR? I'm not aware of GYR being capable of performing a pax-to-freighter conversion.

Looks like N659AA, another Airwork airplane, did its first test flight on Tuesday after freighter conversion. N603 will probably take its place in the shop once N659 is sent on to the customer (or goes in for paint).

cathay747 · Thu May 23, 2019 1:54 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:
The downgrade to the 789 (as opposed to the 77W) was likely made possible by extending AA to year-round. I'm still not sold on it being the right Winter capacity if bookings were truly as strong as they were quoted.

Looking at the seats the only significant decrease is Y, otherwise other classes are not much different. If anything I would say they are maintaining their premium seats and dumping Y

789
F-8, J-42, W-39, Y-127, total 216, 1/4 is F&J

773
F-14, J-56, W-44, Y-185, total 299, 1/4 is F&J

744
F-14, J-52, W-36, Y-235, total 337 1/5 is F&J

In my earlier post about this I meant to say "didn't see this coming so soon" as the replacement of the 744 was discussed some time ago.

It's actually quite a cut in both F & J using the 789, but I guess for the winter season it probably works well, especially now with the year-round AA flight adding the extra J capacity in the market. Moving to the 77W coming IATA-summer-2020 season will be more of an even swap vs. the 744 in F & J plus more W, but yeah, no matter which type, the cut in Y seats is the biggest.

cathay747 · Thu May 23, 2019 1:55 pm

MO11 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
MO11 wrote:

This one, along with seven others, were sold to AFO Airwork (NZ). They will all be freighters. The first two went to Aviastar Tu.

Ah, OK then! Thanks. Wonder what work will be done at GYR? I'm not aware of GYR being capable of performing a pax-to-freighter conversion.

Looks like N659AA, another Airwork airplane, did its first test flight on Tuesday after freighter conversion. N603 will probably take its place in the shop once N659 is sent on to the customer (or goes in for paint).

Interesting, thanks. I didn't know the company at GYR (forget their name) did pax-to-freighter conversions there.

cathay747 · Thu May 23, 2019 1:56 pm

airzona11 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
With regard to above posts, which I'm only seeing early this morning, and about which I'm stunned, it's also officially on Routes Online this morning...

British Airways in this week’s schedule update moved forward planned Boeing 747-400 aircraft replacement on London Heathrow – Phoenix route. At the start of winter 2019/20 schedule from 27OCT19, Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft will operate this route, replacing the 747.

Following schedule effective 03NOV19 – 07MAR20.

BA289 LHR1430 – 1830PHX 789 D
BA288 PHX2040 – 1335+1LHR 789 D

Previously highlighted on Airlineroute, the oneWorld carrier’s preliminary schedule listing in summer 2020 season from 29MAR20 is displaying Boeing 777-300ER operation for this route.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/

Didn't see this coming!

And moving it to T5 at LHR will obviously/certainly make connections easier!

Interesting, now even less time to get those upper deck flights on the BA 744 into PHX. Hoping part of the year we get those 77Ws, add some variety to PHX.

I'm just sad that we're losing our only regularly scheduled 747 flight so much sooner than I believe any of us anticipated.

JustWingIt · Sat May 25, 2019 8:23 pm

Does anybody know anything about the Avianca Brazil 320 that just landed at GYR? Registered PR-OBB, coming in from TUS and previously PTY. I know O6 ceased ops yesterday, but does anyone know who this aircraft is going to?

cathay747 · Sun May 26, 2019 2:14 pm

JustWingIt wrote:
Does anybody know anything about the Avianca Brazil 320 that just landed at GYR? Registered PR-OBB, coming in from TUS and previously PTY. I know O6 ceased ops yesterday, but does anyone know who this aircraft is going to?

Boy, that was fast! Wonder if any more will be coming.

Probably too soon to know who, if anybody, it's going to go to.

MO11 · Sun May 26, 2019 3:52 pm

JustWingIt wrote:
Does anybody know anything about the Avianca Brazil 320 that just landed at GYR? Registered PR-OBB, coming in from TUS and previously PTY. I know O6 ceased ops yesterday, but does anyone know who this aircraft is going to?

Most of these airplanes were repossessed a month ago (as was this one). There are a lot of airplanes to place.

alasizon · Sun May 26, 2019 5:24 pm

MO11 wrote:
JustWingIt wrote:
Does anybody know anything about the Avianca Brazil 320 that just landed at GYR? Registered PR-OBB, coming in from TUS and previously PTY. I know O6 ceased ops yesterday, but does anyone know who this aircraft is going to?

Most of these airplanes were repossessed a month ago (as was this one). There are a lot of airplanes to place.

319s & 330s will likely find homes quite quickly. 320s might take a little longer to place but I doubt they will sit all that long.

Delta28L · Sun May 26, 2019 10:36 pm

alasizon wrote:
MO11 wrote:
JustWingIt wrote:
Does anybody know anything about the Avianca Brazil 320 that just landed at GYR? Registered PR-OBB, coming in from TUS and previously PTY. I know O6 ceased ops yesterday, but does anyone know who this aircraft is going to?

Most of these airplanes were repossessed a month ago (as was this one). There are a lot of airplanes to place.

319s & 330s will likely find homes quite quickly. 320s might take a little longer to place but I doubt they will sit all that long.

Wouldn’t be surprised if UA or Allegiant went after the A320s to boost their fleets

MO11 · Sun May 26, 2019 11:18 pm

Wrong engines for United.

BA744PHX · Mon May 27, 2019 10:22 am

Well it appears Condor will start its seasonal 2x weekly FRA-PHX on April 4th for 2020 before going 3x weekly in May. I have a feeling this will be tweaked again before the final schedule is published.

This would be an entire new month from its current 2019 schedule of May-October at 3x weekly, maybe possible 4th weekly in the works?

cathay747 · Mon May 27, 2019 11:57 am

BA744PHX wrote:
Well it appears Condor will start its seasonal 2x weekly FRA-PHX on April 4th for 2020 before going 3x weekly in May. I have a feeling this will be tweaked again before the final schedule is published.

This would be an entire new month from its current 2019 schedule of May-October at 3x weekly, maybe possible 4th weekly in the works?

I'm glad this service seems to be a clear winner. And from what I've seen on a Luxury Travel Expert vid on YouTube of a FRA-ZNZ flight on them in their J-class, it looks pretty damn good; mind not on par with LH but that's to be expected.

If LH succeeds in buying DE from Thomas Cook, I bet anything they fold DE and EW together; and I think that if they're smart, they should brand the combined airline as Condor given the name's long standing in the public's mind/eye. And maybe eventually LH would take over the route after it's built-up over some years and has become "mature".

alasizon · Mon May 27, 2019 6:51 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Well it appears Condor will start its seasonal 2x weekly FRA-PHX on April 4th for 2020 before going 3x weekly in May. I have a feeling this will be tweaked again before the final schedule is published.

This would be an entire new month from its current 2019 schedule of May-October at 3x weekly, maybe possible 4th weekly in the works?

The problem with the 4x weekly is day selection, currently it is 136 and if they go 1356, then the Saturday loads would likely suffer as they depart late enough that the Friday service would capture a good handful of the Saturday folks.

BA744PHX · Mon May 27, 2019 7:13 pm

alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Well it appears Condor will start its seasonal 2x weekly FRA-PHX on April 4th for 2020 before going 3x weekly in May. I have a feeling this will be tweaked again before the final schedule is published.

This would be an entire new month from its current 2019 schedule of May-October at 3x weekly, maybe possible 4th weekly in the works?

The problem with the 4x weekly is day selection, currently it is 136 and if they go 1356, then the Saturday loads would likely suffer as they depart late enough that the Friday service would capture a good handful of the Saturday folks.

What is the ideal selection, First year was 1,5, Second Year, 1,3,6, I think Sunday could work

Part of me hopes MT decides to add MAN to complement DE FRA, one can dream LOL

alasizon · Mon May 27, 2019 7:22 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Well it appears Condor will start its seasonal 2x weekly FRA-PHX on April 4th for 2020 before going 3x weekly in May. I have a feeling this will be tweaked again before the final schedule is published.

This would be an entire new month from its current 2019 schedule of May-October at 3x weekly, maybe possible 4th weekly in the works?

The problem with the 4x weekly is day selection, currently it is 136 and if they go 1356, then the Saturday loads would likely suffer as they depart late enough that the Friday service would capture a good handful of the Saturday folks.

What is the ideal selection, First year was 1,5, Second Year, 1,3,6, I think Sunday could work

Part of me hopes MT decides to add MAN to complement DE FRA, one can dream LOL

Currently Monday is their strongest day (anecdotally based on what I've seen) so Sunday might partially cannibalize that so 1357 could work if they want to try to split the Saturday traffic across Friday and Sunday. I'm just not sure it can support another 200 people per week currently.

BA744PHX · Tue May 28, 2019 10:25 am

alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:

The problem with the 4x weekly is day selection, currently it is 136 and if they go 1356, then the Saturday loads would likely suffer as they depart late enough that the Friday service would capture a good handful of the Saturday folks.

What is the ideal selection, First year was 1,5, Second Year, 1,3,6, I think Sunday could work

Part of me hopes MT decides to add MAN to complement DE FRA, one can dream LOL

Currently Monday is their strongest day (anecdotally based on what I've seen) so Sunday might partially cannibalize that so 1357 could work if they want to try to split the Saturday traffic across Friday and Sunday. I'm just not sure it can support another 200 people per week currently.

Ah good to know, well hopefully we can expect an announcement soon, in June 2018 they announced the season expansion to include all of May to October, previous was mid May until September, followed by announcement in October 2018 to add a 3rd weekly flight.

BA744PHX · Tue May 28, 2019 10:32 am

alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:

The problem with the 4x weekly is day selection, currently it is 136 and if they go 1356, then the Saturday loads would likely suffer as they depart late enough that the Friday service would capture a good handful of the Saturday folks.

What is the ideal selection, First year was 1,5, Second Year, 1,3,6, I think Sunday could work

Part of me hopes MT decides to add MAN to complement DE FRA, one can dream LOL

Currently Monday is their strongest day (anecdotally based on what I've seen) so Sunday might partially cannibalize that so 1357 could work if they want to try to split the Saturday traffic across Friday and Sunday. I'm just not sure it can support another 200 people per week currently.

@alasizon what I found most interesting was this article stating

''Right now, Americans make up 65% to 75% of the passengers on the Phoenix-Frankfurt flight, said Henry Sunley, the commercial director of sales for Thomas Cook Airlines, Condor’s parent company.. He would like to get those numbers closer to 50% Americans and 50% Europeans."

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

What are your thoughts?

cathay747 · Tue May 28, 2019 12:33 pm

BA744PHX wrote:

@alasizon what I found most interesting was this article stating

''Right now, Americans make up 65% to 75% of the passengers on the Phoenix-Frankfurt flight, said Henry Sunley, the commercial director of sales for Thomas Cook Airlines, Condor’s parent company.. He would like to get those numbers closer to 50% Americans and 50% Europeans."

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

What are your thoughts?

Frankly, I'm surprised to see this breakdown, although happy for it as it clearly demonstrates local demand for this additional European route (meaning in addition to existing/long-running BA); I have to believe it's strictly O&D traffic on this side. I would have thought it would have been more balanced to begin with given what I seem to recall reading about Germans loving to come to AZ. All that being said, I guess what I imagine is quite a large catchment area for the route must be a help...not just PHX metro, but all the way up north as far as at least PRC if not further, and in all other directions within the same roughly 2-2.5hr. drive radius.

alasizon · Tue May 28, 2019 9:49 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
@alasizon what I found most interesting was this article stating

''Right now, Americans make up 65% to 75% of the passengers on the Phoenix-Frankfurt flight, said Henry Sunley, the commercial director of sales for Thomas Cook Airlines, Condor’s parent company.. He would like to get those numbers closer to 50% Americans and 50% Europeans."

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

What are your thoughts?

Interesting, not quite the breakdown I expected. That makes me re-think whether or not they can get the extra pax for the 4th frequency.

BA744PHX · Tue May 28, 2019 10:52 pm

alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
@alasizon what I found most interesting was this article stating

''Right now, Americans make up 65% to 75% of the passengers on the Phoenix-Frankfurt flight, said Henry Sunley, the commercial director of sales for Thomas Cook Airlines, Condor’s parent company.. He would like to get those numbers closer to 50% Americans and 50% Europeans."

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

What are your thoughts?

Interesting, not quite the breakdown I expected. That makes me re-think whether or not they can get the extra pax for the 4th frequency.

I wouldn't say that, what I see is demand from AZ/PHX to Europe,

What I am most curious is AA/BA LHR makeup

1337Delta764 · Wed May 29, 2019 2:50 am

cathay747 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:

@alasizon what I found most interesting was this article stating

''Right now, Americans make up 65% to 75% of the passengers on the Phoenix-Frankfurt flight, said Henry Sunley, the commercial director of sales for Thomas Cook Airlines, Condor’s parent company.. He would like to get those numbers closer to 50% Americans and 50% Europeans."

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

What are your thoughts?

Frankly, I'm surprised to see this breakdown, although happy for it as it clearly demonstrates local demand for this additional European route (meaning in addition to existing/long-running BA); I have to believe it's strictly O&D traffic on this side. I would have thought it would have been more balanced to begin with given what I seem to recall reading about Germans loving to come to AZ. All that being said, I guess what I imagine is quite a large catchment area for the route must be a help...not just PHX metro, but all the way up north as far as at least PRC if not further, and in all other directions within the same roughly 2-2.5hr. drive radius.

Perhaps the demand would be flipped in favor of Europeans if the route ran in the winter.

93Sierra · Wed May 29, 2019 3:12 am

Have the SkyWest and Mesa flights remained the same year over year?

cathay747 · Wed May 29, 2019 1:01 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:

@alasizon what I found most interesting was this article stating

''Right now, Americans make up 65% to 75% of the passengers on the Phoenix-Frankfurt flight, said Henry Sunley, the commercial director of sales for Thomas Cook Airlines, Condor’s parent company.. He would like to get those numbers closer to 50% Americans and 50% Europeans."

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

What are your thoughts?

Frankly, I'm surprised to see this breakdown, although happy for it as it clearly demonstrates local demand for this additional European route (meaning in addition to existing/long-running BA); I have to believe it's strictly O&D traffic on this side. I would have thought it would have been more balanced to begin with given what I seem to recall reading about Germans loving to come to AZ. All that being said, I guess what I imagine is quite a large catchment area for the route must be a help...not just PHX metro, but all the way up north as far as at least PRC if not further, and in all other directions within the same roughly 2-2.5hr. drive radius.

Perhaps the demand would be flipped in favor of Europeans if the route ran in the winter.

Now there's an interesting idea, and you may be right...instead of adding a 4th weekly during the IATA summer season, make it year-round 3x weekly first.

FlyingColours · Wed May 29, 2019 3:57 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Well it appears Condor will start its seasonal 2x weekly FRA-PHX on April 4th for 2020 before going 3x weekly in May. I have a feeling this will be tweaked again before the final schedule is published.

This would be an entire new month from its current 2019 schedule of May-October at 3x weekly, maybe possible 4th weekly in the works?

The problem with the 4x weekly is day selection, currently it is 136 and if they go 1356, then the Saturday loads would likely suffer as they depart late enough that the Friday service would capture a good handful of the Saturday folks.

What is the ideal selection, First year was 1,5, Second Year, 1,3,6, I think Sunday could work

Part of me hopes MT decides to add MAN to complement DE FRA, one can dream LOL

That would be perfect, saves the hassle of a very long day going via LHR or PHL though I admit it's always great to score extra sectors and winning aircraft

Highly doubtful though :/

It's a shame the 747 is coming off so soon, I was hoping to go again this winter and score another one but alas the changeover is earlier than we'd be going. Glad that T5 is in the running though as it is a much better passenger experience, I did MAN-LHR-PHX & PHX-PHL-MAN over new year, flight review coming online soon

The flights were ok, I preferred the AA flights to be honest. I guess this year we will do the AA 777 instead of the BA 787.

Phil
FlyingColours

910A · Wed May 29, 2019 5:48 pm

cathay747 wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

Frankly, I'm surprised to see this breakdown, although happy for it as it clearly demonstrates local demand for this additional European route (meaning in addition to existing/long-running BA); I have to believe it's strictly O&D traffic on this side. I would have thought it would have been more balanced to begin with given what I seem to recall reading about Germans loving to come to AZ. All that being said, I guess what I imagine is quite a large catchment area for the route must be a help...not just PHX metro, but all the way up north as far as at least PRC if not further, and in all other directions within the same roughly 2-2.5hr. drive radius.

Perhaps the demand would be flipped in favor of Europeans if the route ran in the winter.

Now there's an interesting idea, and you may be right...instead of adding a 4th weekly during the IATA summer season, make it year-round 3x weekly first.

I suppose DE needs the aircraft for other sun destinations in the winter..

alasizon · Thu May 30, 2019 1:18 am

93Sierra wrote:
Have the SkyWest and Mesa flights remained the same year over year?

Define "the same".

OO went from no presence, to 13 CRJ-200s based in PHX to now a CRJ-700 fleet that flows between LAX & PHX.
YV went from Dashes and Beechcraft to CRJs to an all CRJ-900 fleet.

MO11 · Thu May 30, 2019 2:22 am

alasizon wrote:
define "the same".

OO went from no presence, to 13 CRJ-200s based in PHX to now a CRJ-700 fleet that flows between LAX & PHX.
YV went from Dashes and Beechcraft to CRJs to an all CRJ-900 fleet.

Can't forget the fine Fokker 70s. Loved working those.

93Sierra · Thu May 30, 2019 4:52 am

Year over year. May 2018-May2019

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