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ZBA2CGX
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:05 pm

yeogeo wrote:
I wonder what the amount of water it is that they're dealing with.

Given the sudden rain events Chicago has had the last two summers. It doesn't surprise me at all that they have such a big tunnel.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html
https://www.weather.gov/lot/chicago_pre ... on_records

They have been upgrading some of the regional big tunnel feeder tunnels as well to handle the volume of water as well.
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:11 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
That 727 (post 131) has moved over to the new de-icing pads. I photographed the area on my way out yesterday (taking off from 28R, 7Feb - sorry for the poor quality) which shows progress: pads are numbered, access taxiways seem to be complete and you can see training in progress with four trucks around the ex-FedEx aircraft. As far as I can make out there are 12 positions, although I imagine the size of the a/c determines how many of the 12 are usable at one time; they all seem to be the same size.

Image

Image


What's hard to see in your picture are the free standing light poles between the spots. Within each "area" you have the ability to park 4 regional's or one widebody. The ramp tower has enough positions to allow UA/AA and OA's staff to coordinate their own operation independently of each other but still communicate between each other on aircraft movements.

The ability to use the pads have been available for a while. However, both UA and AA still had some internal issues to work out before they do.

The two regional deice pads on the T5 ramp will remain in place through this winter season but will go away once the expansion starts.


It is actually 4 narrow bodies or 1 wide body at a time. I have been told that they will deice in the front spots and the 2nd spot will be a waiting spot. UA has the 2 areas to the north with AA the 2 to the south. The OA have the 1 Area between UA and AA.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 877
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:30 pm

airstatdfw wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
That 727 (post 131) has moved over to the new de-icing pads. I photographed the area on my way out yesterday (taking off from 28R, 7Feb - sorry for the poor quality) which shows progress: pads are numbered, access taxiways seem to be complete and you can see training in progress with four trucks around the ex-FedEx aircraft. As far as I can make out there are 12 positions, although I imagine the size of the a/c determines how many of the 12 are usable at one time; they all seem to be the same size.

Image

Image


What's hard to see in your picture are the free standing light poles between the spots. Within each "area" you have the ability to park 4 regional's or one widebody. The ramp tower has enough positions to allow UA/AA and OA's staff to coordinate their own operation independently of each other but still communicate between each other on aircraft movements.

The ability to use the pads have been available for a while. However, both UA and AA still had some internal issues to work out before they do.

The two regional deice pads on the T5 ramp will remain in place through this winter season but will go away once the expansion starts.


It is actually 4 narrow bodies or 1 wide body at a time. I have been told that they will deice in the front spots and the 2nd spot will be a waiting spot. UA has the 2 areas to the north with AA the 2 to the south. The OA have the 1 Area between UA and AA.


Thanks for the clarification, I had regional's on my mind. I'm still not sure 4 narrow bodies at the beginning will be done. Just look at the 727 and the nose gear box behind it and the relationship to the light poles and that's just risking contact somewhere. Then there's the ramp tower that has vertical windows, not slanted as in the other towers. I need to find the pictures that show snow/ice covered windows looking out towards the pad. God bless the architects that designed this one.

Over at T5, there's a similar setup and the pilots are uncomfortable doing what's proposed here. Ramp staff will need to guide them in, but if engines are left running (which they do at T5), no ramper will be allowed behind to park the waiting a/c.

I know the AeroTerm cargo carriers are wanting to use it, so seeing a -8 in the middle of everything will be a sight to see.
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:35 am

jcwr56 wrote:
airstatdfw wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:

What's hard to see in your picture are the free standing light poles between the spots. Within each "area" you have the ability to park 4 regional's or one widebody. The ramp tower has enough positions to allow UA/AA and OA's staff to coordinate their own operation independently of each other but still communicate between each other on aircraft movements.

The ability to use the pads have been available for a while. However, both UA and AA still had some internal issues to work out before they do.

The two regional deice pads on the T5 ramp will remain in place through this winter season but will go away once the expansion starts.


It is actually 4 narrow bodies or 1 wide body at a time. I have been told that they will deice in the front spots and the 2nd spot will be a waiting spot. UA has the 2 areas to the north with AA the 2 to the south. The OA have the 1 Area between UA and AA.


Thanks for the clarification, I had regional's on my mind. I'm still not sure 4 narrow bodies at the beginning will be done. Just look at the 727 and the nose gear box behind it and the relationship to the light poles and that's just risking contact somewhere. Then there's the ramp tower that has vertical windows, not slanted as in the other towers. I need to find the pictures that show snow/ice covered windows looking out towards the pad. God bless the architects that designed this one.

Over at T5, there's a similar setup and the pilots are uncomfortable doing what's proposed here. Ramp staff will need to guide them in, but if engines are left running (which they do at T5), no ramper will be allowed behind to park the waiting a/c.

I know the AeroTerm cargo carriers are wanting to use it, so seeing a -8 in the middle of everything will be a sight to see.



I was told that they have a lighted parking system like the one in YYZ. The tower there will illuminate the path they want the planes on.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:26 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Amazes me that such an extensive drain project must be undertaken for a process of such a relatively short duration, but thinking about it, with that kind of volume, I suppose that can't just sump pump it out onto the lawn :)
I wonder what the amount of water it is that they're dealing with.


"332 acre feet." I had no idea, so the internet says that's roughly 108 million gallons. The south basin (~1500 acre-feet), which is lower in elevation and deeper, will be expanded as part of this -- plus it's got direct processing/outflow to MWRD.
Last edited by chidino on Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ORDfan101
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:53 pm

Anyone know what the most likely new intl routes from ORD are?

I guess syd/ Mel or tlv, is it possible for sq to reach ORD? Also possibly lisbon? Or maybe Johannesburg? Sorry I’m just thinking off the top of my head
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 501
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:57 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
Anyone know what the most likely new intl routes from ORD are?

I guess syd/ Mel or tlv, is it possible for sq to reach ORD? Also possibly lisbon? Or maybe Johannesburg? Sorry I’m just thinking off the top of my head


TP starts Lisbon service June 1.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
ORDfan101
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:00 pm

timberwolf24 wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:
Anyone know what the most likely new intl routes from ORD are?

I guess syd/ Mel or tlv, is it possible for sq to reach ORD? Also possibly lisbon? Or maybe Johannesburg? Sorry I’m just thinking off the top of my head


TP starts Lisbon service June 1.


Sorry, I thought I heard that somewhere but was to lazy to google it
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:29 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
Anyone know what the most likely new intl routes from ORD are?

I guess syd/ Mel or tlv, is it possible for sq to reach ORD? Also possibly lisbon? Or maybe Johannesburg? Sorry I’m just thinking off the top of my head


It's said that if/when AA and QF get their long-sought joint venue Qantas will inaugurate SYD-ORD.... we'll see about that.

One of the most commonly predicted routes from O'Hare is TLV, either by UA or LY. I've read that it's on El Al's radar, so to speak.

IMHO JNB is highly unlikely due to distance and elevation, but somebody probably said that about ADD, so...

Others brand new international routes that aren't currently flown nonstop by anyone...
South America is only represented by Bogota and Sao Paulo currently. Lima or Buenos Aires?
Japan: KIX has been tried and failed, but that was before 788's. I wouldn't hold my breath, however.
Chinese carriers have hinted about various secondary cities to ORD. IWHMB
Philippine has mentioned MNL. IWHMB
Europe: Really not many likely destinations are left... Oslo? Berlin? Someone else takes up MXP now that Air Italy has passed on it?

Have at it Boys and Girls! :duck:
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:54 am

yeogeo wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:
Anyone know what the most likely new intl routes from ORD are?

I guess syd/ Mel or tlv, is it possible for sq to reach ORD? Also possibly lisbon? Or maybe Johannesburg? Sorry I’m just thinking off the top of my head


It's said that if/when AA and QF get their long-sought joint venue Qantas will inaugurate SYD-ORD.... we'll see about that.

One of the most commonly predicted routes from O'Hare is TLV, either by UA or LY. I've read that it's on El Al's radar, so to speak.

IMHO JNB is highly unlikely due to distance and elevation, but somebody probably said that about ADD, so...

Others brand new international routes that aren't currently flown nonstop by anyone...
South America is only represented by Bogota and Sao Paulo currently. Lima or Buenos Aires?
Japan: KIX has been tried and failed, but that was before 788's. I wouldn't hold my breath, however.
Chinese carriers have hinted about various secondary cities to ORD. IWHMB
Philippine has mentioned MNL. IWHMB
Europe: Really not many likely destinations are left... Oslo? Berlin? Someone else takes up MXP now that Air Italy has passed on it?

Have at it Boys and Girls! :duck:


As mentioned above, LIS starts 6/1.
MXP was supposed to start in May on Air Italy, but that has been pushed back a year (if it ever starts). UA? AA dropped.

Europe / Middle East:

MAN: AA flew this for almost 30 years and dropped it. Thomas Cook, UA or BA?
OSL: SK or UA. More likely UA as SK doesn't do much out of OSL.
PRG: Been rumored, but nothing yet.
DUS: Tried and failed by both alliances. UA 767?
TXL: Tried and failed by AA, but UA / LH?
HAM: UA or LH?
SVO/DME: AA failed. SU? S7 if they get widebodies?
KBP: More likely than Moscow due to VFR (but low-yielding).
BEG: VFR, but low-yielding.
ZAG: VFR, but low-yielding.
SOF: VFR, but low-yielding.
OTP: VFR, but low-yielding.
TLV: LY when the 788s arrive. UA possibly, but hasn't done much at ORD lately due to lack of widebody gates.

Africa:

CAI: Star hub, but not likely.
CMN: One hub route and being flown from BOS. Possibly.
JNB: No, nonstop westbound impossible. SA proposed ORD via DKR, but dropped before started. ET seems to be doing well as flights increased. Possibly via west Africa?

South America:

LIM: Possibly with alliances.
EZE: Extremely seasonal. UA filled a 744 in December, but couldn't fill an E175 in June.
SCL: Cargo route, but probably not enough traffic to fill a flight with passengers.

Asia:

BOM: Most likely
KIX: With a 787, possible, but probably not realistic.
MNL: Has been discussed, but yield would be in the toilet.
SIN: Possibly on SQ via Asia or non-stop (not via Europe).
CTU: Has been talked about by HU.
HND: JL likely to fly this (one to NRT and one to HDN). AA likely to leave ORD-Asia for good (focus on DFW and LAX, even though LAX is supposedly bleeding). UA possibly.

Oceania:

BNE: If AA / QF JV is approved, this is a given per QF CEO
SYD: If AA / QF JV is approved and Project Sunrise works out.

North America:
YEG: If economy gets better?
YQR: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
YXE: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
YQT: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
YYB: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
YXU: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
YKF: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
YYT: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
YLW: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
YMM: AC/UA can make these smaller markets work?
QRO: AA or UA?
MLM: AA or UA?
PBC: AA or UA?
ZCL: AA or UA?
DGO: AA or UA?
SLP: AA or UA?

Domestic:
STS: AA or UA?
TLH: AA or UA?
SHV: AA or UA?
BTR: AA or UA?
MGM: AA or UA?
AMA: AA or UA?
LBB: AA or UA?
DAB: AA or UA?
MRY: AA or UA?
SBB: AA or UA?
ONT: AA or UA?
BFL: AA or UA?
BUR: AA or UA?
MFE: AA or UA?
HLN: AA or UA?
BZM: AA or UA?
MED: AA or UA?
Last edited by nomorerjs on Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
ORDfan101
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:57 am

Mnl is a big one. I think that it’s a matter of time until ly or ua will fly to tlv, along with aa/qf to Australia. I think kix is also going to happen eventually, though by who, I don’t know
 
Delta28L
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:28 am

Maybe MNL could be connected with Philippine Airlines maybe two or three times weekly to start when the A350 fleet grows and they have some to spare. No way a USA airline would start MNL. TLV I could see a 787 during the slow season and a 777 in high season on United since United is established in TLV already. Australia is only a matter of time since ANZ launched AKL last year. Australia could happen if AA/QF JV gets approved. What demand would drive KIX?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:46 am

A few comments on your list...

nomorerjs wrote:
Europe / Middle East:
MAN: AA flew this for almost 30 years and dropped it. Thomas Cook, UA or BA?
PRG: Been rumored, but nothing yet.
TXL: Tried and failed by AA, but UA / LH?
HAM: UA or LH?
TLV: LY when the 788s arrive. UA possibly, but hasn't done much at ORD lately due to lack of widebody gates.


It would be interesting if UA picked MAN up after AA dropped it!

I passed over Prague thinking that AA had announced it - seems like their style of late. Did they announce ATH? I'm a little hazy on American's Summer seasonal routes.

TXL-ORD was announced several years back by Lufthansa but dropped the route shortly before flying it -I know because I was booked on it. HAM-EWR was just dropped by UA, so that doesn't bode well for ORD-HAM. I think DUS is out of the question also. Seems LH is entirely unwilling to fly nonstops from any German cities but from its two hubs so I think the likelihood of these happening w. Lufty is nil. I think UA is content with the status quo as well. Perhaps secondary German cities seasonally with AA?

I think you nailed it with the lack of w/b gates for UA; we won't be seeing much expansion until the Global Terminal is operational.

nomorerjs wrote:
Asia:
BOM: Most likely

Forgot about that possibility, although if it's not even flown from New York, what are the chances from ORD, I wonder.

nomorerjs wrote:
Oceania:
BNE: If AA / QF JV is approved, this is a given per QF CEO
SYD: If AA / QF JV is approved and Project Sunrise works out.


Of course, you're right! The QF proposal was ORD-BNE non-stop, not SYD.

...Since OP specifically asked about international, I'm not touching your domestic list.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:06 am

Delta28L wrote:
What demand would drive KIX?

Although the Kansai region is very populous with lots of industry in Osaka and surrounding, as well as a large draw touristically (Kyoto, Nara, etc.) I think it's a VERY long shot from O'Hare. This winter UA is flying the smallest 787 on its less than daily (xT/TH) SFO-KIX flights: not exactly encouraging for ORD.
Funny, UA flew triple 7's for awhile, ORD-KIX, but that didn't last long.
If the tourism trade keeps expanding as it is doing now, perhaps someone would do summer seasonal flights there; you could visit Kyoto without having to go back to Tokyo on return.
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:13 am

TLV is still the biggest hole from ORD IMO.

It won’t happen, but if AA was the one to launch it, it would be a huge slap in the face to UA.

Other things I’d like to see is ICN on UA metal, BOM on anyone and QF to BNE and eventually SYD once the aircraft to do it becomes available.
 
jetskipper
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:16 am

nomorerjs wrote:
Asia:
BOM: Most likely

Forgot about that possibility, although if it's not even flown from New York, what are the chances from ORD, I wonder.

UA flies EWR-BOM daily, it’s been flown for years, a CO carry over.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:20 am

jetskipper wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
Asia:
BOM: Most likely

Forgot about that possibility, although if it's not even flown from New York, what are the chances from ORD, I wonder.

UA flies EWR-BOM daily, it’s been flown for years, a CO carry over.


I'll be - thought they flew EWR-DEL - apologies
 
jetskipper
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:28 am

yeogeo wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
Asia:
BOM: Most likely

Forgot about that possibility, although if it's not even flown from New York, what are the chances from ORD, I wonder.

UA flies EWR-BOM daily, it’s been flown for years, a CO carry over.


I'll be - thought they flew EWR-DEL - apologies


They fly both.
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:29 am

Just out of curiosity, is there anything stopping UA from operating intl. departures out of T5 if they wanted? I know the current situation in T1 prevents any meaningful expansion at their own terminal until the Global Terminal is built.

If they operated a few high O&D routes from the Intl. terminal (so as to minimize connecting hassles of switching terminals), they could possibly expand into some new intl. routes from ORD. Although, honestly, I don’t think T5 has that much space left in it either? But, if everyone else is adding flights, why not UA too? Terminal changes would suck, but it’s no different than having to switch terminals when connecting on any Star Alliance carrier that isn’t ANA or Lufthansa.

This brings me to my final point... Has AA or UA ever operated any departures out of T5?
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:10 pm

jetskipper wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Forgot about that possibility, although if it's not even flown from New York, what are the chances from ORD, I wonder.

UA flies EWR-BOM daily, it’s been flown for years, a CO carry over.


I'll be - thought they flew EWR-DEL - apologies


They fly both.


Well then, if EWR can do it, I agree with nomorerjs. BOM should be on the list!


ual763 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there anything stopping UA from operating intl. departures out of T5 if they wanted? I know the current situation in T1 prevents any meaningful expansion at their own terminal until the Global Terminal is built.

If they operated a few high O&D routes from the Intl. terminal (so as to minimize connecting hassles of switching terminals), they could possibly expand into some new intl. routes from ORD. Although, honestly, I don’t think T5 has that much space left in it either? But, if everyone else is adding flights, why not UA too? Terminal changes would suck, but it’s no different than having to switch terminals when connecting on any Star Alliance carrier that isn’t ANA or Lufthansa.

This brings me to my final point... Has AA or UA ever operated any departures out of T5?


Interesting questions, ual763 and out of the box thinking.

Perhaps jcwr56 could answer the first questions about if theoretically UA (or AA) would be allowed to depart out of T-5.
Seems that terminal has been at maximum during the most sought-after hours for years, yet they continue to add new flights still, here and there. I wouldn't be surprised that they're giving new entrants preference when possible, so how would they view one of the big 2 coming to them for a gate or two? Just a guess: not likely a positive reaction, especially now that the've moved Frontier over and construction about to begin (ostensibly) on the addition.

As to whether AA or UA have ever departed from T-5? Not to my knowledge, but there are many ORD history posters lurking about - maybe they can answer this question more definitively.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:27 pm

I see in Enilria's most recent post that Sun Country is upping its MSP-ORD flights to daily in August.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415229

Did anyone ever post where they'll be gated? T-3? T-5?
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:18 pm

yeogeo wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
yeogeo wrote:

I'll be - thought they flew EWR-DEL - apologies


They fly both.


Well then, if EWR can do it, I agree with nomorerjs. BOM should be on the list!


ual763 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there anything stopping UA from operating intl. departures out of T5 if they wanted? I know the current situation in T1 prevents any meaningful expansion at their own terminal until the Global Terminal is built.

If they operated a few high O&D routes from the Intl. terminal (so as to minimize connecting hassles of switching terminals), they could possibly expand into some new intl. routes from ORD. Although, honestly, I don’t think T5 has that much space left in it either? But, if everyone else is adding flights, why not UA too? Terminal changes would suck, but it’s no different than having to switch terminals when connecting on any Star Alliance carrier that isn’t ANA or Lufthansa.

This brings me to my final point... Has AA or UA ever operated any departures out of T5?


Interesting questions, ual763 and out of the box thinking.

Perhaps jcwr56 could answer the first questions about if theoretically UA (or AA) would be allowed to depart out of T-5.
Seems that terminal has been at maximum during the most sought-after hours for years, yet they continue to add new flights still, here and there. I wouldn't be surprised that they're giving new entrants preference when possible, so how would they view one of the big 2 coming to them for a gate or two? Just a guess: not likely a positive reaction, especially now that the've moved Frontier over and construction about to begin (ostensibly) on the addition.

As to whether AA or UA have ever departed from T-5? Not to my knowledge, but there are many ORD history posters lurking about - maybe they can answer this question more definitively.



In early 2001 UA had a full plan to move all their international departures over to T5. It was gated out proving it was doable and then 9/11 happened. Actually once it became known within the airport community, AA too decided to see if it was possible. Had UA pulled it off, it would have effectively boxed in AA and shunted any long term international growth plans for ORD they had.
yeogeo wrote:
I see in Enilria's most recent post that Sun Country is upping its MSP-ORD flights to daily in August.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415229

Did anyone ever post where they'll be gated? T-3? T-5?


T5
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:36 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
In early 2001 UA had a full plan to move all their international departures over to T5. It was gated out proving it was doable and then 9/11 happened. Actually once it became known within the airport community, AA too decided to see if it was possible. Had UA pulled it off, it would have effectively boxed in AA and shunted any long term international growth plans for ORD they had.


Interesting! Have never heard about that. What an advantage that would have been for United. That possibility (all UA int'l flights departing from T-5), now, has clearly passed.
I do wonder whether an off-peak departure or two would be considered... :confused: for either or both UA or AA.
 
OlympicATH
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:05 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Did they announce ATH? I'm a little hazy on American's Summer seasonal routes.


Yes, daily summer seasonal 788 starting May 3.
 
VTORD
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:17 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Forgot about that possibility, although if it's not even flown from New York, what are the chances from ORD, I wonder.

UA: EWR - BOM Daily x 77W
AI: EWR - BOM Daily x 77W
AI: JFK - BOM 3 x Weekly 77W
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:44 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Did they announce ATH? I'm a little hazy on American's Summer seasonal routes.


Yes, daily summer seasonal 788 starting May 3.


VTORD wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Forgot about that possibility, although if it's not even flown from New York, what are the chances from ORD, I wonder.

UA: EWR - BOM Daily x 77W
AI: EWR - BOM Daily x 77W
AI: JFK - BOM 3 x Weekly 77W


Thanks guys! Nice to know knowledgable people out there are reading :thumbsup:
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:37 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
MAN: AA flew this for almost 30 years and dropped it. Thomas Cook, UA or BA?


I don’t see this route returning anytime soon I’m afraid.

AA seem unlikely unless there is a major shift in approach give the drawdown on ORD-EU routes in favour of PHL.

Ditto BA, who are essentially a London airline and are drawing down their shuttle service between MAN and LHR.

TCX are unlikely, given that they are up for sale (at leas that’s the speculation).

The best bets for any return would be VS (essentially Delta(UK) who might be on the verge of constructing a major operation at MAN (perhaps including a purchase of TCX). Even this is unlikely as they’d probably aim elsewhere.

However the most likely would be UA - but even then I think they would need an NMA sized aircraft (possibly an A321/A322 XLR) I think - hence the reason for a delay.

The other, remoter, possibility is that someone like SQ operates SIN-MAN-ORDvv in a similar way to the current SIN-MAN-IAHvv flight.
 
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yeogeo
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:32 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
MAN: AA flew this for almost 30 years and dropped it. Thomas Cook, UA or BA?


I don’t see this route returning anytime soon I’m afraid.

AA seem unlikely unless there is a major shift in approach give the drawdown on ORD-EU routes in favour of PHL.

Ditto BA, who are essentially a London airline and are drawing down their shuttle service between MAN and LHR.

TCX are unlikely, given that they are up for sale (at leas that’s the speculation).

The best bets for any return would be VS (essentially Delta(UK) who might be on the verge of constructing a major operation at MAN (perhaps including a purchase of TCX). Even this is unlikely as they’d probably aim elsewhere.

However the most likely would be UA - but even then I think they would need an NMA sized aircraft (possibly an A321/A322 XLR) I think - hence the reason for a delay.

The other, remoter, possibility is that someone like SQ operates SIN-MAN-ORDvv in a similar way to the current SIN-MAN-IAHvv flight.


Thanks for that very detailed and informative post, dobbo.
I suppose UA, while waiting for the theoretical NMA, could employ a 757, also avoiding the problem of lack of wide body gates at ORD.

The SIN<>MAN<>ORD option would be awesome. :cloudnine:
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:38 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:41 am

SQ will never do ORD-Europe-SIN again. That is the reason why they are not at ORD currently. I had a very interesting conversation with an SQ sales rep about SQ and ORD.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:25 am

timberwolf24 wrote:
SQ will never do ORD-Europe-SIN again. That is the reason why they are not at ORD currently. I had a very interesting conversation with an SQ sales rep about SQ and ORD.


Hi Timberwolf - is this something you are able to share?
 
fsafsx
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:02 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:11 pm

I like where Chicagoland stands in terms of routes because you can find anything from Allegiant up the road in Rockford to a large international and worldwide hub at OHare with a leisure airport at Midway. There's everything to enjoy about Chicagolands routes.
 
ORDfan
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:36 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
Hi Timberwolf - is this something you are able to share?


timberwolf24 wrote:
SQ will never do ORD-Europe-SIN again. That is the reason why they are not at ORD currently. I had a very interesting conversation with an SQ sales rep about SQ and ORD.


Yes agree, would be curious to hear their thoughts as well. I don't think anyone believes they should try ORD-Euro-SIN again, but a direct flight could work today. I fly to SIN a couple times a year in J, and its not difficult to connect through HKG, ICN, or NRT honestly (all nice chairs in those respective airlines), but it would be a welcome addition as a direct flight. My company will likely open an office there within the next year. Now that they have the A359ULR, I think a few times/week to ORD could be justified.

Singapore Exchange (SGEX) opened a Chicago office here in late 2017 and it is their Americas HQ. Many of the trading/commodity multi-nationals in town have Singapore offices and there is some overlap on the commodity conference circuit as well.

The last time they tried was nearly 20 years ago - MUCH has changed since then.

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/c ... in-chicago

fsafsx wrote:
I like where Chicagoland stands in terms of routes because you can find anything from Allegiant up the road in Rockford to a large international and worldwide hub at OHare with a leisure airport at Midway. There's everything to enjoy about Chicagolands routes.


Agreed - I don't think there is much we are missing at all. In fact, Global FF in Chicagoland are quite spoiled overall. Direct to virtually every major Euro, ME, and Asian cities. There's a couple "wants" (i.e. SIN) above, some folks on here regularly asking about TLV and SYD etc, but other than those wants, no glaring "needs" that I can see today. Everything from here on out is icing on the cake to me.
 
Galvan316
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:43 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:27 pm

Can routes like SIN, SYD, MNL even be done n/s with the current generations of aircraft and still have the airlines make a profit?
ORD and MDW is where youll find Me!
 
ORDfan101
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:14 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:29 pm

I believe it is possible with a 787 to reach Australia from Chicago . Did the calculations as part of my science project! Not sure if there’s demand for MNL but I think that it is possible

Edit: not sure about profitability
 
fsafsx
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:02 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:07 pm

I think Sydney could work. I am not sure why Qantas doesnt fly the A380 from Sydney to OHare. The traffic is there.
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:35 pm

fsafsx wrote:
I think Sydney could work. I am not sure why Qantas doesnt fly the A380 from Sydney to OHare. The traffic is there.


QF does not have a plane that can fly ORD-SYD nonstop.

DFW-SYD takes a payload hit to fly westbound.

Project Sunrise is where QF will get aircraft to make SYD-JFK/LHR/ORD possible.

QF has stated they will start ORD if the JV with AA is approved.
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2670
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:00 am

Volaris to start MDW-AGU (Aguascalientes) June 16, 2019. Flights will operate 2x weekly on Fridays and Sundays. MDW-AGU comes at the expense of MDW-QRO flights ending and being transferred to ORD. ORD-QRO will be redeye instead of a day time flight like at MDW. QRO will continue to operate at 2x weekly. Flights are available for booking on Volaris website. Last day of operation of MDW-QRO is June 14.

Y4 909 MDW 12:23pm- 4:39pm AGU (Friday, Sunday) A319/A320 begins June 16, 2019
Y4 908 AGU 5:29pm- 9:23pm MDW (Friday, Sunday) A319/A320

Y4 362 QRO 8:54pm- 1:05am ORD (Friday, Sunday) A320 begins June 16, 2019
Y4 363 ORD 2:35am- 6:46am QRO (Monday, Saturday) A320
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:07 am

Just wondering if anyone else has heard the Air Italy radio ads lately. I just returned from a vacation out of the country so I’m not sure they’re still being aired but I heard it 2 different times before I left. I find it pretty odd that they’re still airing these after canceling the service this summer. I realize they already paid for the ads but why still air them?
 
User avatar
piedmontf284000
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:22 am

Starting April 1st, UA will begin daily flights to Massena (MSS) and Odgensville (OGS) in upstate New York. The flights will be operated by Skywest and will be once daily to each city using CR2 equipment.

https://www.pressrepublican.com/news/lo ... 0d5d8.html

https://www.wwnytv.com/story/39932859/s ... ogdensburg
 
jcwr56
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:18 pm

While there's a thread of its own.... DY to start BCN - ORD.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... icago.html
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:18 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
While there's a thread of its own.... DY to start BCN - ORD.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... icago.html


A little more detail from the Spanish press release:
"The route will start on Friday, June 7 and will operate four days a week, every Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday, until October 26. The flights depart with rates starting at 169.9 euros (~191 US $) per way, taxes included. Altogether, Norwegian will operate five routes between Barcelona and the United States: the one announced today to Chicago, plus the four already existing to New York / Newark, Los Angeles, San Francisco / Oakland and Miami / Fort Lauderdale.

Matthew Wood, Senior Vice President of Long Radio Commercial and New Markets, has stated:
Norwegian is totally committed to Barcelona and has responded to the increasing demand of our passengers for new destinations from El Prat, an airport that is working so well that we have decided to add a new route to Chicago, and increase frequencies in existing ones. to New York and Los Angeles. With these, Norwegian will offer 44 weekly flights between Barcelona and the United States this summer, ten more than in the previous summer. "

google translated from: https://media.es.norwegian.com/pressrel ... at-2836821

From Coné Nast Traveler:
"If you want to get to take advantage of these new routes and book now, head to Norwegian's site and enter your departure city, destination, and dates. (Pull up the fare calendar to see the cheapest tickets.) Remember that you'll have to pay for things like checked bags (up to $90 each way, depending on your flight), seat selection ($10 to $33 per segment), and meals ($45). It pays, then, to do the math: If you do want some of these add-ons, see if it's worth it to upgrade from the ultra-basic LowFare class to the LowFare+, which includes a 44-pound checked bag, meals, seat reservation, and Wi-Fi."

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/norweg ... -barcelona

DY7155 BCN 14:05-ORD 16:30 M/W/F
DY7155 BCN 15:55-ORD 18:20 Sat

DY7156 ORD 18:30-BCN 9:50+1 M/W/F
DY7156 ORD 20:30-BCN 11:50+1 Sat

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415639

Always surprising that more space is found for new flights at T-5... at peak times and with construction ostensibly underway by then.
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:53 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Starting April 1st, UA will begin daily flights to Massena (MSS) and Odgensville (OGS) in upstate New York. The flights will be operated by Skywest and will be once daily to each city using CR2 equipment.


UA seems to have this corner of Upstate New York sewn up, the two airports being 35 miles apart.

Image
Map generated by the Great Circle Mapper (http://www.gcmap.com) - copyright © Karl L. Swartz.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:34 pm

yeogeo wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
While there's a thread of its own.... DY to start BCN - ORD.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... icago.html


A little more detail from the Spanish press release:
"The route will start on Friday, June 7 and will operate four days a week, every Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday, until October 26. The flights depart with rates starting at 169.9 euros (~191 US $) per way, taxes included. Altogether, Norwegian will operate five routes between Barcelona and the United States: the one announced today to Chicago, plus the four already existing to New York / Newark, Los Angeles, San Francisco / Oakland and Miami / Fort Lauderdale.

Matthew Wood, Senior Vice President of Long Radio Commercial and New Markets, has stated:
Norwegian is totally committed to Barcelona and has responded to the increasing demand of our passengers for new destinations from El Prat, an airport that is working so well that we have decided to add a new route to Chicago, and increase frequencies in existing ones. to New York and Los Angeles. With these, Norwegian will offer 44 weekly flights between Barcelona and the United States this summer, ten more than in the previous summer. "

google translated from: https://media.es.norwegian.com/pressrel ... at-2836821

From Coné Nast Traveler:
"If you want to get to take advantage of these new routes and book now, head to Norwegian's site and enter your departure city, destination, and dates. (Pull up the fare calendar to see the cheapest tickets.) Remember that you'll have to pay for things like checked bags (up to $90 each way, depending on your flight), seat selection ($10 to $33 per segment), and meals ($45). It pays, then, to do the math: If you do want some of these add-ons, see if it's worth it to upgrade from the ultra-basic LowFare class to the LowFare+, which includes a 44-pound checked bag, meals, seat reservation, and Wi-Fi."

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/norweg ... -barcelona

DY7155 BCN 14:05-ORD 16:30 M/W/F
DY7155 BCN 15:55-ORD 18:20 Sat

DY7156 ORD 18:30-BCN 9:50+1 M/W/F
DY7156 ORD 20:30-BCN 11:50+1 Sat

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415639

Always surprising that more space is found for new flights at T-5... at peak times and with construction ostensibly underway by then.


There's always room at the inn. :D
 
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kordcj
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:47 pm

Anyone know what AC’s plans are for ORD? With the departure of the E-190 between this year and next, could we see the return of the A319s or even the CS-300s (what’re they in Airbus terms?) to the airport? Are their E gates big enough to accommodate the larger aircraft? They’re pretty tucked away in the corner as is.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
drdisque
Posts: 984
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:09 pm

kordcj wrote:
Anyone know what AC’s plans are for ORD? With the departure of the E-190 between this year and next, could we see the return of the A319s or even the CS-300s (what’re they in Airbus terms?) to the airport? Are their E gates big enough to accommodate the larger aircraft? They’re pretty tucked away in the corner as is.


AC has operated the A-320 into one of their gates for their YVR flight, so at least one gate is capable of handling an Airbus. However, I expect most of the E-190 flights to go to E-175s.
 
airfinair
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 11:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:18 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
Just wondering if anyone else has heard the Air Italy radio ads lately. I just returned from a vacation out of the country so I’m not sure they’re still being aired but I heard it 2 different times before I left. I find it pretty odd that they’re still airing these after canceling the service this summer. I realize they already paid for the ads but why still air them?


I heard an ad early last week on WXRT. I had to giggle! I would imagine they have already payed for the ads so XRT (owned by CBS Radio) will play x number of times per the contract.
ORD,MDW,IND,ARB,AMS,FRA,AUS,ANQ,DTW,DEN,PHL,PIT,MIA,GPT,SAN,PHX,LAX,SFO,OAK,SEA,LAS,SLC,SMF,ATL,MEM,BOS,MHT,JFK,EWR,LGA,NAS,SAT,MSY,DFW,AUS,IAD,GCM,RSW,PHL,CLT,
 
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yeogeo
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:36 am

jcwr56 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Always surprising that more space is found for new flights at T-5... at peak times and with construction ostensibly underway by then.


There's always room at the inn. :D


Apparently! -tho' hard to believe.
Will enjoy seeing the new utilization charted out this year. You listening, AmricanShamrok?

Image
amricanshamrok wrote:
{above} ...based on my own observations of gate usage by airlines at T5 and the data used is taken from a random Monday in July 2018. Arrival/departure times are rounded to the nearest :00 or :30
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2050
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:31 pm

yeogeo wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Always surprising that more space is found for new flights at T-5... at peak times and with construction ostensibly underway by then.


There's always room at the inn. :D


Apparently! -tho' hard to believe.
Will enjoy seeing the new utilization charted out this year. You listening, AmricanShamrok?

Image
amricanshamrok wrote:
{above} ...based on my own observations of gate usage by airlines at T5 and the data used is taken from a random Monday in July 2018. Arrival/departure times are rounded to the nearest :00 or :30

Loud and clear! I’ll work on it over the next couple of weeks.
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:38 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:49 pm

ORDfan wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
Hi Timberwolf - is this something you are able to share?


timberwolf24 wrote:
SQ will never do ORD-Europe-SIN again. That is the reason why they are not at ORD currently. I had a very interesting conversation with an SQ sales rep about SQ and ORD.



This was back in 2007 when I was the air department manager for a tour company and we were signing the new contract with SQ. There were rumors on a.net that SQ was going to restart ORD service. When I asked the SQ rep if there was any truth to the rumor, I was not expecting his answer. This was his response.

“The reason SQ is not in Chicag has nothing to do with demand, as demand was and is there. SQ has a bad reputation in Chicago. As you know the flight was operated via AMS, our clients told us they would love to take the flight, but the routing need to be changed. Going via AMS is backwards and the long way to go to SIN. If you go via the pacific or non stop, we would be on the flight tomorrow. Then 9/11 happened and we pulled the fight. Again it had nothing to do with demand.
When we restarted ORD, the route again was via AMS. Our Clint’s said, we told you the last time we will not take the fight due to the routing via AMS. The there was the SARS outbreak and the route was ended. Again it had nothing to do with demand.
It also had nothing to do with not have a UA code share, it would be nice but we don’t need it. SQ has no one to blame but themselves and how we handled the market. We shot ourself in the foot. Now our customers ask why should we take you, when in 6 months to a year and you’ll pull out of the market again. Chicago is a very sore subject in Singapore.”

I never expected that response.

Personal I think SQ will return to ORD in the next several years, non stop or via Japan or something. But not via the Atlantic.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
chicawgo
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:29 pm

The new deicing pad is open!! Is this the first day? Look at fr24 and you’ll see them all there!
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