Always thought BOS is the East Coast version of SEA. But doesn’t metro BOS has a wealthier, stronger economy than SEA?
Maybe strip out the connections and only look at OD pax to/from BOS and SEA.

Dieuwer wrote:

Always thought BOS is the East Coast version of SEA. But doesn’t metro BOS has a wealthier, stronger economy than SEA?
Maybe strip out the connections and only look at OD pax to/from BOS and SEA.

Google is your friend ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 5b3207966c

iyerhari wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

How does BOS compare to SEA, pax-wise?

Rank Airport Total pax Intl. pax Relative to BOS Intl. pax % 2017 pax Reported months
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 SEA 49,849,340 5,427,551 8,907,415 10.89% 46,934,194 Dec
9 LAS 49,713,540 3,964,965 8,771,615 7.98% 48,500,194 Dec
10 MCO 47,696,627 6,600,637 6,754,702 13.84% 44,672,421 Dec
11 PHX 44,943,125 2,151,504 4,001,200 4.79% 44,071,313 Dec
12 MIA 45,044,312 21,876,691 4,102,387 48.57% 44,611,265 Dec
13 IAH 43,807,539 10,733,600 2,865,614 24.50% 40,696,216 Dec
14 EWR 43,460,191 12,903,799 2,518,266 29.69% 43,921,670 Nov
15 CLT 42,436,689 2,881,174 1,494,764 6.79% 45,909,899 Nov
16 BOS 40,941,925 7,583,887 - 18.52% 38,412,419 Dec
17 MSP 38,037,381 3,022,388 (2,904,544) 7.95% 38,034,341 Dec
18 DTW 35,236,676 3,263,378 (5,705,249) 9.26% 34,701,497 Dec
19 FLL 35,959,225 8,608,363 (4,982,700) 23.94% 32,511,053 Dec
20 PHL 31,696,564 3,938,680 (9,245,361) 12.43% 29,585,754 Dec

As a great soccer chant in England goes

We’re coming for you, We’re coming for you, oh Charlotte, NC we’re coming for you

bagoldex wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Always thought BOS is the East Coast version of SEA. But doesn’t metro BOS has a wealthier, stronger economy than SEA?
Maybe strip out the connections and only look at OD pax to/from BOS and SEA.

Google is your friend ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 5b3207966c

Thanks. That list shows BOS at #11 and SEA at #!3. So, Boston is better/larger/fancier/superior than Seattle
iyerhari needs to fix the list shown earlier in post #250.

Don’t forget HOU. I suspect BOS is gaining share from PVD and MHT whereas HOU seems to be growing pretty steadily too. Plus with the UA/CO merger DEN is a superior choice for east west connections, now that UA has better alternative than CO had 10 years ago. But saying that BOS growth damn impressive, especially internationally. I just don’t agree that Houston has stagnated.

Dieuwer wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Always thought BOS is the East Coast version of SEA. But doesn’t metro BOS has a wealthier, stronger economy than SEA?
Maybe strip out the connections and only look at OD pax to/from BOS and SEA.

Google is your friend ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 5b3207966c

Thanks. That list shows BOS at #11 and SEA at #!3. So, Boston is better/larger/fancier/superior than Seattle
iyerhari needs to fix the list shown earlier in post #250.

That list represents total passengers including connections and international passengers and what I linked to shows domestic O&D traffic only - a totally different measure. He doesn't need to fix anything.

Dieuwer wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Always thought BOS is the East Coast version of SEA. But doesn’t metro BOS has a wealthier, stronger economy than SEA?
Maybe strip out the connections and only look at OD pax to/from BOS and SEA.

Google is your friend ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 5b3207966c

Thanks. That list shows BOS at #11 and SEA at #!3. So, Boston is better/larger/fancier/superior than Seattle
iyerhari needs to fix the list shown earlier in post #250.

No he doesn't, I don't believe those numbers in the article and in any case, those are from 2016, iyerhari's numbers are 2018. No way BOS did 16m connecting pax, Massports own numbers through June 18, show 5.8% connecting pax (94.2% O&D) which means around 2.2m connecting based on 40.9m total. 2.2m is less than 200K a month or 6,000 a day honestly i am not sure i believe that either, because that seems too far the other way but Massport have been consistently reporting 94% O&D for the past few years.
http://massport.com/media/3029/mpa-fy18-cafr-final.pdf (page 142) for my source.

I get it.
But my point is that it is "unfair" to compare Boston to hubs that historically see a lot of connecting pax. Boston will NEVER be a large connector hub.
You're not going to compare Boston to London either. It will be useless.
So to get a real measure of passenger flow, perhaps look at pax departing OD to Asia only, or whatever destination. But including connections you might as well not list Boston.

RAM got their approval the other day and the schedule is ready to go.
Start date 6/22
822 seats each way weekly

AT210 CMN1705 – 1930BOS 788 146
AT211 BOS2115 – 0850+1CMN 788 146

Operational frequency changes to Day 357 from 01OCT19.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2019/

Now I have to figure out how to Shoehorn this into my Terminal E analysis because I need a size 14 shoe to do it.
FGITD, any help you can provide with those who generally get towed off gates between 7 and 9 would be greatly appreciated

RAM is official.
3x weekly beginning June 22, 2019.
Boeing 787-8
Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays
AT 210 CMN-BOS 1705 -1930 x146
AT211 BOS-CMN 2115 - 0850 (+1 day) x146

VS4ever wrote:

Now I have to figure out how to Shoehorn this into my Terminal E analysis because I need a size 14 shoe to do it.
FGITD, any help you can provide with those who generally get towed off gates between 7 and 9 would be greatly appreciated

As far as I know, only JAL, Copa, and TK tow off anywhere near that time range. And possibly AZ, but I believe they arrive later.

Based on what I've heard, it seems the only real "guarantees" are BA at 12, EK at 11, LH at 10, and now allegedly AF/KL at 9.

Will be very interesting to see the numbers out of E for 2019. A lot of capacity changes for the summer, and it doesn't seem like anyone downsized.

FGITD wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Now I have to figure out how to Shoehorn this into my Terminal E analysis because I need a size 14 shoe to do it.
FGITD, any help you can provide with those who generally get towed off gates between 7 and 9 would be greatly appreciated

As far as I know, only JAL, Copa, and TK tow off anywhere near that time range. And possibly AZ, but I believe they arrive later.

Based on what I've heard, it seems the only real "guarantees" are BA at 12, EK at 11, LH at 10, and now allegedly AF/KL at 9.

Will be very interesting to see the numbers out of E for 2019. A lot of capacity changes for the summer, and it doesn't seem like anyone downsized.

I wonder if KL now also being in E will put any pressure on improving the AF lounge situation. Now that BA, EK, and LH all have their fancy new lounges its even more of a stark situation. Although at least the VS lounge isn't bad. Its small, but very well done.

pitbosflyer wrote:

FGITD wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

I wonder if KL now also being in E will put any pressure on improving the AF lounge situation. Now that BA, EK, and LH all have their fancy new lounges its even more of a stark situation. Although at least the VS lounge isn't bad. Its small, but very well done.

I can't pretend to know much about lounges, but I do know a little about the construction plans, which might shed some light on this. Take it all with a grain of salt, because this is dated info and this stuff changes weekly.

The current AF lounge is set to be consumed by the necessary expansion of CBP. In exchange, AF are given first pick of the new lounges in the new expansion. These will be located along the backside of the new terminal, and therefore will not have a great view of the ramp, but instead have spectacular views of the city.

Again, I have no real clue what's going on now, but awhile ago that was the plan. Wouldn't be too surprised to see AF, KL, KE all go in together on a Skyteam Lounge though.

Dieuwer wrote:

I get it.
But my point is that it is "unfair" to compare Boston to hubs that historically see a lot of connecting pax. Boston will NEVER be a large connector hub.
You're not going to compare Boston to London either. It will be useless.
So to get a real measure of passenger flow, perhaps look at pax departing OD to Asia only, or whatever destination. But including connections you might as well not list Boston.

SEA has grown exceptionally well over the past 5 years. You can see the trajectory based on the data. The AMZN, MSFT effect - but the fact is they are doing exceptionally well. See the comparatives of SEA, IAH and BOS for the past 6 years and u can see the difference in the growth.

Year SEA BOS IAH SEA-BOS IAH-BOS
2018 49,849,340 40,941,925 43,807,539 8,907,415 2,865,614
2017 46,934,619 38,412,419 40,696,216 8,522,200 2,283,797
2016 45,737,115 36,288,042 41,692,372 9,449,073 5,404,330
2015 42,340,537 33,449,580 43,023,224 8,890,957 9,573,644
2014 37,498,267 31,634,445 41,254,384 5,863,822 9,619,939
2013 34,826,741 30,218,631 39,799,414 4,608,110 9,580,783
2012 33,223,111 29,235,643 39,890,756 3,987,468 10,655,113

BOS is now coming at a space that comes closer to fortress hubs and it is commendable despite BOS not being a true hub or a single carrier monopoly for any of the carrier (B6 has the highest market share and they have approx. 33-35%).

O&D rankings by airport: https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/OandD_Rank.pdf

The number quoted by VS4ever looks consistent based on the site for BOS. Approx. 93.1% of pax are O&D and the remainder 6.9% are connecting. I will assume most of the connections maybe coming though DL or B6. You can see the details for SEA yourself on the extent of connections.

FGITD wrote:

pitbosflyer wrote:

FGITD wrote:

I can't pretend to know much about lounges, but I do know a little about the construction plans, which might shed some light on this. Take it all with a grain of salt, because this is dated info and this stuff changes weekly.

The current AF lounge is set to be consumed by the necessary expansion of CBP. In exchange, AF are given first pick of the new lounges in the new expansion. These will be located along the backside of the new terminal, and therefore will not have a great view of the ramp, but instead have spectacular views of the city.

Again, I have no real clue what's going on now, but awhile ago that was the plan. Wouldn't be too surprised to see AF, KL, KE all go in together on a Skyteam Lounge though.

That actually makes a lot of sense to me. A big old Skyteam Lounge when the additional gates are added. Wonder if it will ever lead to DL bringing over their international departures to free up space at A.

pitbosflyer wrote:

That actually makes a lot of sense to me. A big old Skyteam Lounge when the additional gates are added. Wonder if it will ever lead to DL bringing over their international departures to free up space at A.

well the expansion hasn't even started yet, and somehow most of the gates are already spoken for. Bear in mind all those hardstands along the wall will be gone, so the long stays will most likely be on gate the whole day.

DL tends to arrive midday, and leave early afternoon. Occupies quite a few gates, for quite a awhile. Mix in their connections, lounges, branding desires etc, and I don't see them moving.

Whereas terminal E is generally the land of the turnaround. And while safety is a priority of course, I think there's a little bit of competition to see who's fastest

So have they settled on a design for the Terminal E expansion?

NickolayAv wrote:

RAM is official.
3x weekly beginning June 22, 2019.
Boeing 787-8
Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays
AT 210 CMN-BOS 1705 -1930 x146
AT211 BOS-CMN 2115 - 0850 (+1 day) x146

BOS now gets close to joining the elite club to fly to 5 inhabited continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa. I was in the taxi last week from Logan and the taxi driver was incidentally was from Casablanca. He was excited that he could do a nonstop trip vs. having to travel to CDG or LHR and spend time in the layover zone.

Northeast748 wrote:

So have they settled on a design for the Terminal E expansion?

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... it%20A.pdf

Here's a good overview of the plans.

It's not too surprising that AF will be getting a new lounge. Phase 1 will have space for 4 new airline clubs.

iyerhari wrote:

NickolayAv wrote:

RAM is official.
3x weekly beginning June 22, 2019.
Boeing 787-8
Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays
AT 210 CMN-BOS 1705 -1930 x146
AT211 BOS-CMN 2115 - 0850 (+1 day) x146

BOS now gets close to joining the elite club to fly to 5 inhabited continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa. I was in the taxi last week from Logan and the taxi driver was incidentally was from Casablanca. He was excited that he could do a nonstop trip vs. having to travel to CDG or LHR and spend time in the layover zone.

Dude - did you just write off the continent inhabited by Kangaroos?!!

B752OS wrote:

Northeast748 wrote:

So have they settled on a design for the Terminal E expansion?

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... it%20A.pdf

Here's a good overview of the plans.

It's not too surprising that AF will be getting a new lounge. Phase 1 will have space for 4 new airline clubs.

Thanks. I hope the roof looks better than some bizarre red tupperware lid or giant millipede

NickolayAv wrote:

RAM is official.
3x weekly beginning June 22, 2019.
Boeing 787-8
Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays
AT 210 CMN-BOS 1705 -1930 x146
AT211 BOS-CMN 2115 - 0850 (+1 day) x146

Hats off to Massport and Royal Air Maroc!!!
I'm so glad I didn't decide to go to Morocco last year (some friends were going) ... can't wait to take the non-stop!

About AT BOS-CMN: Wasn't there a proposed schedule with an 01:00ish departure?

This one seems better geared for B6 feed.

New terminal in CMN will be fully operational by start date too so connecting may not be the horror show I've read on here and on other sites.

Anyone have any predictions for what happens with the HND slot process discussed here? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415015

Some are guessing at DL applying for BOS-HND. The only way I see them applying for it is to be a hedge at not getting a JFK-HND slot.

I do think JL could switch to HND to focus primarily on Boston-Japan O&D. They would also still serve the big non-Japanese markets from Haneda. Does anyone know if JL feeds Jetstar Japan at Narita?

My true wish would be for NH to jump in here.

airbazar wrote:

ASA wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

BOS now gets close to joining the elite club to fly to 5 inhabited continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa. I was in the taxi last week from Logan and the taxi driver was incidentally was from Casablanca. He was excited that he could do a nonstop trip vs. having to travel to CDG or LHR and spend time in the layover zone.

Dude - did you just write off the continent inhabited by Kangaroos?!!

No but he wrote off Cape Verde as an African country. BOS joined the 5 continent club over a year ago when TACV came back to BOS.

Yet Massport (for now) see TACV as European, i wonder if they will move them when RAM starts

VS4ever wrote:

airbazar wrote:

ASA wrote:

Dude - did you just write off the continent inhabited by Kangaroos?!!

No but he wrote off Cape Verde as an African country. BOS joined the 5 continent club over a year ago when TACV came back to BOS.

Yet Massport (for now) see TACV as European, i wonder if they will move them when RAM starts

Massport probably wants a little more pomp and circumstance to start flights to Africa than TACV could provide. For one thing, I'm not even sure they're a terminal tenant, and might be treated more like a semi regular charter.

That said, I heard there's going to be some big launch celebrations for KLM, Korean, and RAM. Hopefully someone gets some nice pics of them coming in the first days!

FGITD wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

airbazar wrote:

No but he wrote off Cape Verde as an African country. BOS joined the 5 continent club over a year ago when TACV came back to BOS.

Yet Massport (for now) see TACV as European, i wonder if they will move them when RAM starts

Massport probably wants a little more pomp and circumstance to start flights to Africa than TACV could provide. For one thing, I'm not even sure they're a terminal tenant, and might be treated more like a semi regular charter.

That said, I heard there's going to be some big launch celebrations for KLM, Korean, and RAM. Hopefully someone gets some nice pics of them coming in the first days!

Airbazar - if you see the latest Logan passenger details for the month, there is a line item called North Africa - it is blank for now. Once Casablanca starts, it would be filled. But Massport currently does not include Cape Verde as Africa Australia is blank so I am hoping they maybe next.

Just read that A380 service to BOS has been added to the winter season
​​​​​​​https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/282849/emirates-w19-boston-aircraft-changes/

BA still fly to BOS with A380?

ghoepers wrote:

BA still fly to BOS with A380?

Yep and going daily at the end of March

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... s%20Boston

VS4ever wrote:

ghoepers wrote:

BA still fly to BOS with A380?

Yep and going daily at the end of March

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... s%20Boston

Just booked a flight on it in August. Will be my first experience on the A380.

ghoepers wrote:

BA still fly to BOS with A380?

Sorry, meant to specify EK A380 service

airbazar wrote:

Those are not continets. They are regions. My point is it doesn't matter what Massport says or thinks. Cape Verde is an African country and there is non-stop service to Cape Verde. Is that so difficult to understand?
North Africa is not a continent either, and neither is Middle East or Central America. How Massport aggregates the passenger statistics is completely irrelevant. BOS has non-stop service to 5 continents.
Even your original post implies that: "BOS now gets close to joining the elite club to fly to 5 inhabited continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa."
You didn't include Massport's regions in your post. You included continents.

Good catch - I stand corrected and thanks for letting me know. I did not know about Cape Verde much and should have checked the details. The quotes here gave me an opportunity to see some stunning pics of some of the beaches and they are like Wow!

Which runway is currently down at Logan? I heard one was inoperable due to construction. I'm guessing, based on the layout of BOS, that this will restrict arrival/departure flow if the wind is in a certain direction.

OneX123 wrote:

Which runway is currently down at Logan? I heard one was inoperable due to construction. I'm guessing, based on the layout of BOS, that this will restrict arrival/departure flow if the wind is in a certain direction.

Not sure about yesterday, but -- interestingly enough -- NOTAMs have 4R/22L OOS I am guessing for plowing? Either way planes are landing 15R right now (a rarity, particularly during a storm)! I thought I heard a few earlier but -- where I am, in Medford -- we get both 33L departures and arrivals coming from the direction of Williamstown (I believe usually on JFUND and formerly QUABN arrivals) heading to 4R/27/33L coming by, so I figured it was the latter.

NOTAMs also say that 15L/33R is closed until 2/19.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12feb19/

Does this mean loads are so great all classes at full fare? Should we expect more capacity?

Question: How frequently do flights from BOS-LAX divert for fuel?

I know it happens, as I diverted on a VX A320 in 2011 to LAS, and a family member was on AA1161 today a 321 and they informed them before the flight that they would be diverting to STL for fuel.

I know I have read in the past that this happens more frequently than most would expect.

airway1 wrote:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/282910/avianca-ns19-us-inventory-changes-as-of-12feb19/

Does this mean loads are so great all classes at full fare? Should we expect more capacity?

It’s odd that AV would only make changes to 4 of their 6 weekly BOS-BOG flights. If they were phasing this flight out why didn’t this change apply to all flights?

jworks158 wrote:

Question: How frequently do flights from BOS-LAX divert for fuel?

I know it happens, as I diverted on a VX A320 in 2011 to LAS, and a family member was on AA1161 today a 321 and they informed them before the flight that they would be diverting to STL for fuel.

I know I have read in the past that this happens more frequently than most would expect.

There is a thread discussing the high frequency of trans-cons needing to make a put stop for fuel due to the screaming jet stream as well as poor weather in California. AA 1161 pulled up in MSP today.

airway1 wrote:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/282910/avianca-ns19-us-inventory-changes-as-of-12feb19/

Does this mean loads are so great all classes at full fare? Should we expect more capacity?

No. This means they are discontinuing the route. Only load full fare to make it unattractive to purchase before pulling out of GDS on the weekend schedule update.

Does the Avianca pullout means that BOS has peaked? Or is this just uniquely related to Colombia?

airbazar wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Does the Avianca pullout means that BOS has peaked? Or is this just uniquely related to Colombia?

I think it's more related to the fact that people aren't really buying into BOG as a connecting hub to S.America where Brazil is the biggest market and once GRU-BOS was started whatever little valuable market there was has opted to fly with LATAM or simply there isn't enough of a market for 2 airlines.

Perhaps you are right. With LA providing nonstop and COPA at PTY for connecting flights, perhaps BOG was one too many.