GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:40 pm

iahcsr wrote:
78J
N12005 B1 CHSCHS. Playing catch-up quite quickly it appears


With a month of production backlog sitting on the ground, I'm sure Boeing was starting to run short on space to put all of the planes.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:50 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
If we see anything happen, the Diamond seats from the GE powered 777s will make their way to the Hawaiian 777 fleet to replace the 8 across setup. It's a long shot IMO, but its possible.

Those seats have got to be super old by this point though. Some of the 772s delivered to Continental prior to the merger came installed with the seats, and the rest were retrofitted around the same time (2008-2010ish?). My guess is that some of the old pmUA J seats are actually newer! Even though I'm pretty sure the pmUA IPTE seats rolled out first, their roll out took such a long time, and CO had a comparatively small 772 fleet.

They'd probably also want to keep the higher density J seats, but that would just be my guess.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:51 am

It seems like United is very happy with the A319. Will United ever order the 737 MAX-7?
 
audidudi
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:27 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
cosyr wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Wow, fantastic calculations! Thanks!
So, do you think that UA might be ready to start on the original (now in service) 788/9 early 2020?
Will they feel as if there is too much life left in those newer diamond seats to rip them out?
I wonder if they could sell them to some obscure charter airlines vs the landfill!

Or keep playing musical chairs, and move them to the Hawaiian fleet. You could easily fit 28 of the diamond seats in the same space being occupied now, and they would be an improvement over the IPTE seats, but I'm sure it would cost more than its worth for UA to spend on a fleet coasting toward retirement.


I don't think they would move the 787 Diamond seats to the Hawaiian 777s since they are narrower seats due to the 787 fuselage being narrower. If we see anything happen, the Diamond seats from the GE powered 777s will make their way to the Hawaiian 777 fleet to replace the 8 across setup. It's a long shot IMO, but its possible.

Of course you meant to write "Hawaiian 767s", not 777s!
Last edited by audidudi on Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:34 am

audidudi wrote:
GmoneyCO wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Or keep playing musical chairs, and move them to the Hawaiian fleet. You could easily fit 28 of the diamond seats in the same space being occupied now, and they would be an improvement over the IPTE seats, but I'm sure it would cost more than its worth for UA to spend on a fleet coasting toward retirement.


I don't think they would move the 787 Diamond seats to the Hawaiian 777s since they are narrower seats due to the 787 fuselage being narrower. If we see anything happen, the Diamond seats from the GE powered 777s will make their way to the Hawaiian 777 fleet to replace the 8 across setup. It's a long shot IMO, but its possible.

Of course you meant to write "Hawaiian 767s", not 777s!


I think he meant the high density domestic “Hawaiian” 777’s, not the 767’s from HA.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:59 am

atcsundevil wrote:
GmoneyCO wrote:
If we see anything happen, the Diamond seats from the GE powered 777s will make their way to the Hawaiian 777 fleet to replace the 8 across setup. It's a long shot IMO, but its possible.

Those seats have got to be super old by this point though. Some of the 772s delivered to Continental prior to the merger came installed with the seats, and the rest were retrofitted around the same time (2008-2010ish?). My guess is that some of the old pmUA J seats are actually newer! Even though I'm pretty sure the pmUA IPTE seats rolled out first, their roll out took such a long time, and CO had a comparatively small 772 fleet.

They'd probably also want to keep the higher density J seats, but that would just be my guess.

It's all just conjecture, because I'm sure UA will not invest anymore in the HI 77A fleet. I'm just selfishly speaking from my own preferences, I love the diamond seats. As a stomach sleeper, I can sleep with my arm outstretched in those, and not the IPTE, PLUS...it is a crime to have 2 middle seats in J! I would feel like I have wasted my miles/money if I was relegated to one of those. Not only do I prefer the diamond over IPTE, but I actually think it would make more sense than Polaris on Hawaiian routes, where leisure travelers are more likely to be flying with a companion, which is the only flaw to Polaris.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:30 am

Going alllll the way back when the backwards/forwards seats launched they were a breakthrough for a US carrier. Although they somehow fit 1 lie-flat exactly where 1 recliner fit.
I presume it would be A LOT of work to take them out and install used (but still nice) diamond seats. They would be awesome to Hawaii- I know because I’ve flown the 764 EWR-HNL in one, with my partner and a very long flight zipped by!
But even if the diamond seat is there, and probably paid for would those HD 777s be worth the time and effort? Seems that out of the Boeing line up it would be buying more 78J or waiting for the 797.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:45 am

The HI 77A's are mostly 95/96 build models. At 24 years of age, how many years are left in them? That probably makes the investment unlikely. I often wonder about the rumored 11 additional 78J's taking their place someday, unless the 764's do as they have one more retrofit left in them. Thoughts?

Regardless, very quickly the 77A's will be the worst plane in the UA fleet especially when the IPTE's are gone this year, if not already and their customer surveys probably point it out. Having done ORD>OGG on one with 3 kids, I can tell you I will not do that again.
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:59 pm

fun2fly wrote:
The HI 77A's are mostly 95/96 build models. At 24 years of age, how many years are left in them? That probably makes the investment unlikely. I often wonder about the rumored 11 additional 78J's taking their place someday, unless the 764's do as they have one more retrofit left in them. Thoughts?

Regardless, very quickly the 77A's will be the worst plane in the UA fleet especially when the IPTE's are gone this year, if not already and their customer surveys probably point it out. Having done ORD>OGG on one with 3 kids, I can tell you I will not do that again.


I think the 764s make the most sense as a replacement for the 77As, originally when the 764s were first delivered to CO four of the sixteen were in a domestic / Hawaii configuration. DL originally had all of their 764s in a domestic configuration. The aircraft is more versatile than the 77A, it can fly EWR-HNL or DEN-LGA ( DL used to fly their 764s into LGA).

The oldest UA 764 is from 2000, the newest 2002. They can go another ten years easy, and then be replaced by the new NMA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:42 pm

STT757 wrote:
I think the 764s make the most sense as a replacement for the 77As, originally when the 764s were first delivered to CO four of the sixteen were in a domestic / Hawaii configuration. DL originally had all of their 764s in a domestic configuration. The aircraft is more versatile than the 77A, it can fly EWR-HNL or DEN-LGA ( DL used to fly their 764s into LGA).

The oldest UA 764 is from 2000, the newest 2002. They can go another ten years easy, and then be replaced by the new NMA.


I don't think the 764s are the right replacement for the 77As because the 764s can not accommodate 364 passengers. For a a large portion of the year UA needs an aircraft that can accommodate 364 passengers, not just on our Hawaiian flights but also on our hub to hub routes. No matter how you look at it the 764 can not replace a domestically configured 77A because it can't accommodate the same number of passengers or cargo. However a 77E can and it would be the perfect replacement for the 77As. The 77Es because of their higher ZFW and TOG would eliminate the weight restrictions that currently plague the 77A fleet especially the flight is full, over 300 bags and when cargo plans over 30,000 LBS of cargo. The 77A when faced with a full passenger cabin, 300 plus bags and 30,000 LBS of cargo is weight restricted even on a relative short flight of SFO-DEN because we are at the MFZW. The 77E in domestic configuration would eliminate this problem on hub to hub routes also UA's chronically weight restricted problem child ORD-HNL-ORD a 77E could cover that route without a problem in domestic configuration. Finally a domestically configured 77E would allow UA to upguage EWR-HNL-EWR to a larger aircraft which the route does need especially during the busy season.

If UA takes delivery of the A359s at some point in 2022 (it is purely my opinion) by the end of 2023 some of those 77Es will be converted from international configuration to domestic configuration and will begin replacing the oldest 77A models in our fleet. I think the 77As will be sticking around for the next few years the 764s will not be their replacement, that responsibility will go to the 77Es.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:48 pm

jayunited wrote:
STT757 wrote:
I think the 764s make the most sense as a replacement for the 77As, originally when the 764s were first delivered to CO four of the sixteen were in a domestic / Hawaii configuration. DL originally had all of their 764s in a domestic configuration. The aircraft is more versatile than the 77A, it can fly EWR-HNL or DEN-LGA ( DL used to fly their 764s into LGA).

The oldest UA 764 is from 2000, the newest 2002. They can go another ten years easy, and then be replaced by the new NMA.


I don't think the 764s are the right replacement for the 77As because the 764s can not accommodate 364 passengers. For a a large portion of the year UA needs an aircraft that can accommodate 364 passengers, not just on our Hawaiian flights but also on our hub to hub routes. No matter how you look at it the 764 can not replace a domestically configured 77A because it can't accommodate the same number of passengers or cargo. However a 77E can and it would be the perfect replacement for the 77As. The 77Es because of their higher ZFW and TOG would eliminate the weight restrictions that currently plague the 77A fleet especially the flight is full, over 300 bags and when cargo plans over 30,000 LBS of cargo. The 77A when faced with a full passenger cabin, 300 plus bags and 30,000 LBS of cargo is weight restricted even on a relative short flight of SFO-DEN because we are at the MFZW. The 77E in domestic configuration would eliminate this problem on hub to hub routes also UA's chronically weight restricted problem child ORD-HNL-ORD a 77E could cover that route without a problem in domestic configuration. Finally a domestically configured 77E would allow UA to upguage EWR-HNL-EWR to a larger aircraft which the route does need especially during the busy season.

If UA takes delivery of the A359s at some point in 2022 (it is purely my opinion) by the end of 2023 some of those 77Es will be converted from international configuration to domestic configuration and will begin replacing the oldest 77A models in our fleet. I think the 77As will be sticking around for the next few years the 764s will not be their replacement, that responsibility will go to the 77Es.

That's exactly what I was thinking. As they start to retire the oldest 77E's, eventually they will be left with a smaller fleet of newer 77E's that will still have life in them. At that point they could just replaces several rows of Polaris with more Y seats (or maybe W) and call it their domestic/HI fleet at that point. If they separate the PW fleet from the GE fleet at that point, they could consider some a niche fleet, even with 40+ left. That might coincide nicely timing wise with the retirement of the 77A's. But I still think theirs room for the 764's to change mission a little bit to do mixed Intl and domestic routes in addition to the 777's.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:33 pm

My guess is the perfect aircraft for replacement of the 772A on Hawaiian and GUM operations will be a combination of the 764 and 78X (both have fewer seats than the 772A).
The 78X has a relatively lower J percentage and offers more seat, range and cargo capacity than the 772A. Perfect for HNL-GUM, which can take weight restrictions and leave cargo behind.
Until it goes Polaris, the 764 can cover markets like EWR/IAD-HNL, transcon, less competitve/lower J TATL markets and other Hawaiian markets from DEN and West Coast.

789:
N17963 sked to exit XMN maint 2744/28Jan

Interesting on FR24 is the photo for the new 39M N37513.
N37513 was previously used to a DC6 and a photo in 1962 at LAX is shown on the below link. I'm sure that photo will be removed when the 39M takes a B1 flight, so click the below link for some nostalgia and the huge difference between 1950's and 2019 technology.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n37513
or straight to the larger photo
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7286811
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:44 pm

Looking at the June schedules for LAX/SFO-Hawaii routes I'm still seeing plenty of 737-900ers (7 total), vs. only 4 737-9MAX. Will the 737-900ERs eventually all be replaced to Hawaii by the 737-9MAX? Also what about the 738s, can the 737-9MAX replace the 738s on routes to Lihue? I know LIH has short runways.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:11 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
My guess is the perfect aircraft for replacement of the 772A on Hawaiian and GUM operations will be a combination of the 764 and 78X (both have fewer seats than the 772A).
The 78X has a relatively lower J percentage and offers more seat, range and cargo capacity than the 772A. Perfect for HNL-GUM, which can take weight restrictions and leave cargo behind.
Until it goes Polaris, the 764 can cover markets like EWR/IAD-HNL, transcon, less competitve/lower J TATL markets and other Hawaiian markets from DEN and West Coast.


I have to disagree and the reason I disagree is if you look at the Polaris configuration on the 77Es between doors 1L/R and 2L/R there are 32 seats. That seat count is perfect for hub to hub, Hawaiian, and Guam routes. If UA were to take out the second smaller Polaris section behind doors 2L/R and replace it with a small (3 rows max) premium plus section followed by economy plus and regular economy the 77E is the right aircraft for these routes to replace the 77As.
The 78X in my opinion has to many Polaris seats for normal daily operations on hub to hub routes, the Hawaiian market and Guam. Don't get me wrong the 78X is probably the perfect aircraft for 1X or 2X daily on EWR-SFO/LAX routes along with 1X or 2X daily flights on a 764 in addition to the multiple 752s, but I think it's to premium heavy for other hub to hub routes Hawaiian routes and for Guam. Looking at Guam especially HNL-GUM-HNL UA absolutely needs a 300 plus seater on this route, however UA does not need 44 Polaris seats on this route especially when most days half of first class is filled with free upgrades do to the fact that they oversold coach.
 
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:28 pm

Updates to TransStates E145 details:
N832HK (2003 build) - floater - new TSA livery
N835HK (2003 build) - floater - House livery
N836HK (2003 build) - UAX fleet - new TSA livery
N839HK (2004 build) - UAX fleet - Globe livery
N842HK (2004 build) - UAX fleet - House livery
N843HK (2004 build) - floater - new TSA livery
N845HK (2004 build) - UAX fleet - new TSA livery
N846HK (2004 build) - UAX fleet - new TSA livery
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:59 pm

jayunited wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
My guess is the perfect aircraft for replacement of the 772A on Hawaiian and GUM operations will be a combination of the 764 and 78X (both have fewer seats than the 772A).
The 78X has a relatively lower J percentage and offers more seat, range and cargo capacity than the 772A. Perfect for HNL-GUM, which can take weight restrictions and leave cargo behind.
Until it goes Polaris, the 764 can cover markets like EWR/IAD-HNL, transcon, less competitve/lower J TATL markets and other Hawaiian markets from DEN and West Coast.


I have to disagree and the reason I disagree is if you look at the Polaris configuration on the 77Es between doors 1L/R and 2L/R there are 32 seats. That seat count is perfect for hub to hub, Hawaiian, and Guam routes. If UA were to take out the second smaller Polaris section behind doors 2L/R and replace it with a small (3 rows max) premium plus section followed by economy plus and regular economy the 77E is the right aircraft for these routes to replace the 77As.
The 78X in my opinion has to many Polaris seats for normal daily operations on hub to hub routes, the Hawaiian market and Guam. Don't get me wrong the 78X is probably the perfect aircraft for 1X or 2X daily on EWR-SFO/LAX routes along with 1X or 2X daily flights on a 764 in addition to the multiple 752s, but I think it's to premium heavy for other hub to hub routes Hawaiian routes and for Guam. Looking at Guam especially HNL-GUM-HNL UA absolutely needs a 300 plus seater on this route, however UA does not need 44 Polaris seats on this route especially when most days half of first class is filled with free upgrades do to the fact that they oversold coach.


Don't you think the 78J would have less than 44 Polaris or Dom First seats if they had a subfleet? I'd say with 28 Polaris or Dom First seats like the 77A's and PE before the exit door, they could easily get 3 more rows of coach taking the 318 seat ac to 345 which is pretty close to the 366 they are currently (at and maybe 4 rows taking it to 354). Even with the loss of a few seats vs. the 77A's, it would be a CASM killer and appreciated greatly by the PAX.

Money bet is on the 764's however and leave the fancy 78J's to routes that will make more $.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:05 am

UAinAUS wrote:
Updates to TransStates E145 details:
N832HK (2003 build) - floater - new TSA livery
N835HK (2003 build) - floater - House livery
N836HK (2003 build) - UAX fleet - new TSA livery
N839HK (2004 build) - UAX fleet - Globe livery
N842HK (2004 build) - UAX fleet - House livery
N843HK (2004 build) - floater - new TSA livery
N845HK (2004 build) - UAX fleet - new TSA livery
N846HK (2004 build) - UAX fleet - new TSA livery

N844HK exited storage and ferried QQM-STL yesterday, not entirely sure if it’s re-entering the UAX fleet.

Aircraft still has Tulip paint.
Greetings from KPIT! Check out my photos here: http://www.airliners.net/search?user=45 ... teAccepted
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:20 am

I can't disagree if we open the discussion to reconfigure 772ER aircraft as they age and possibly replace 772A units. I'd guess time will tell if PE seats will be installed or demanded on hub to hub or routes like ORD-HNL-GUM - I expect 772A density behind door 2 if Polaris was reduced. In any case it would probably be a small sub-fleet of maybe a dozen aircraft as I doubt the economics or operating extended range aircraft on hub-to-hub routes (increased landing fees?) makes long term sense.

For the shorter term, Diamond seats don't replace forward/back facing 772A seating without lav and galley changes and that is probably too expensive for just a few years.

Regarding the 78X, I could envision 78X on ORD-HNL-GUM-HNL-ORD, 772As on HNL-IAH/LAX/SFO/DEN and 764s on HNL-EWR/IAD. That would utilize just 2 78X units and provide weight-restriction-free service and a 25% bonus in freight carrying capacity vs. a 772A or 772ER. I am not proposing the 78X on hub to hub service, rather only 2 units for ORD-HNL-GUM and I think 12 extra Polaris seats aren't that big of a difference.

The 78X looks to have have about 24 fewer seats than a modified 772ER (Polaris reduced to Zone 1 plus 3 rows of PE). 78X 44J/21PE/45E+/208Y= 318, 772ER modified 32J/24PE/286E+/Y=342. If you look at the Polaris config at least one row would be lost as lavs/galley extends into Zone 2 vs. the 772A configuration. If two rows are lost drop another 10 seats from the modified 772ER. (336 - 40(for PE space) -10 lavs/galley+ 286Y).

I believe UA placed the 44 Polaris seats on the 78X due to door positioning and will utilize the aircraft on TATL routes with good demand that has an average F/Y split. Due to lower Polaris seat count, it looks to be economical on Hawaii and Transcon routes.
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:10 am

There are 6 "younger" 77A's 2000 build. I wonder what will happen to these when their 1995 brothers head off to be recycled?

In the end, there are 3 choices for the 77A replacements...764/77E/78J. Each has a flaw on some level, but with the volume of PAX and cargo that UA moves, they will need some w/b a/c on the routes. It will be interesting to see what happens! UA also has to weigh the costs of a subfleet vs. just using standard config w/b. With 17 of 18 of these moving domestically this summer, you can see they have to have a plan to replace these with a w/b.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:58 am

fun2fly wrote:
There are 6 "younger" 77A's 2000 build. I wonder what will happen to these when their 1995 brothers head off to be recycled?

In the end, there are 3 choices for the 77A replacements...764/77E/78J. Each has a flaw on some level, but with the volume of PAX and cargo that UA moves, they will need some w/b a/c on the routes. It will be interesting to see what happens! UA also has to weigh the costs of a subfleet vs. just using standard config w/b. With 17 of 18 of these moving domestically this summer, you can see they have to have a plan to replace these with a w/b.


Why not take those 6 and put them back to their original purpose? Back in the 80's and 90's, airlines thought it made sense to have widebodies in the US. Slap some domestic F seats up front and toss those back on DEN-ORD, etc. like the old DC-10's. In the 80's airlines were small, so made the most of their routes, in the 2000's frequency trumped capacity, to the point that CRJ's ended up on off hours. Now UA is investing on domestic growth. Frequency is nice, but when you already have a flight every hour, adding a flight on the half hour doesn't really add anything extra for frequency, so might as well upgauge. It's time to bring back domestic widebodies (dedicated, that is)
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:31 am

39M:
N37510 sked to exit SEA Induction 2750/27Jan to SFO - Don't see a first revenue flight.

Since the 752 had 24 standard F seats in sUA config and the Diamond seats have only 16 seats, would a 772A with standard F seats be up to 42? (1.5 times more?) That's quite a few more to sell. Was the previous F standard seating 6 or 7 across?

I think the reason it wouldn't happen is to keep the fleet standardized so that it can be used on HI, GUM and EWR transocns. If UA dumped half or more and moved the aircraft to domestic only (no EWR- transcons), then it might make sense if old seats are out there for use..

Maybe the 78X could go with 32 Polaris and 4 rows of PE in front of door 2. Net change Polaris -12, PE +7, Y +45 = +40 or 358 total. I wonder if galley service for Polaris would be messed up as it looks like galleys are in front and behind Polaris seating.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:38 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
39M:
N37510 sked to exit SEA Induction 2750/27Jan to SFO - Don't see a first revenue flight.

Since the 752 had 24 standard F seats in sUA config and the Diamond seats have only 16 seats, would a 772A with standard F seats be up to 42? (1.5 times more?) That's quite a few more to sell. Was the previous F standard seating 6 or 7 across?

I think the reason it wouldn't happen is to keep the fleet standardized so that it can be used on HI, GUM and EWR transocns. If UA dumped half or more and moved the aircraft to domestic only (no EWR- transcons), then it might make sense if old seats are out there for use..

Maybe the 78X could go with 32 Polaris and 4 rows of PE in front of door 2. Net change Polaris -12, PE +7, Y +45 = +40 or 358 total. I wonder if galley service for Polaris would be messed up as it looks like galleys are in front and behind Polaris seating.

The original 77A layout was 6 across x 6 rows. 36 seats in front of Door 2, but I don't remember what the galley/lav arrangment was, so I don't know if you could fit more rows in today. 6 seems like a small fleet, but base them all out of the same city. Say DEN, have 5 fly out to LAX/SFO/ORD/IAD/IAH, and one spare, then ORD could do a tag onto IAD or EWR. Each of those planes could do 2 out and backs in a day, with plenty of downtime, and a healthy boost to capacity hub to hub. If DEN doesn't make sense, you could easily do the same from ORD instead.
 
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Schweigend
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:39 am

cosyr wrote:
Why not take those 6 and put them back to their original purpose? Back in the 80's and 90's, airlines thought it made sense to have widebodies in the US. Slap some domestic F seats up front and toss those back on DEN-ORD, etc. like the old DC-10's. In the 80's airlines were small, so made the most of their routes, in the 2000's frequency trumped capacity, to the point that CRJ's ended up on off hours. Now UA is investing on domestic growth. Frequency is nice, but when you already have a flight every hour, adding a flight on the half hour doesn't really add anything extra for frequency, so might as well upgauge. It's time to bring back domestic widebodies (dedicated, that is)


The original 77A layout was 6 across x 6 rows. 36 seats in front of Door 2, but I don't remember what the galley/lav arrangment was, so I don't know if you could fit more rows in today. 6 seems like a small fleet, but base them all out of the same city. Say DEN, have 5 fly out to LAX/SFO/ORD/IAD/IAH, and one spare, then ORD could do a tag onto IAD or EWR. Each of those planes could do 2 out and backs in a day, with plenty of downtime, and a healthy boost to capacity hub to hub. If DEN doesn't make sense, you could easily do the same from ORD instead.


I think you have a very good idea.

Not all domestic hub-hub flights require the Polaris Experience!

Perhaps certain transcons do, but not all of them, all the time.

Along with you, I'd like to see these aircraft used on regular domestic flights, and I agree that a subfleet dedicated to domestic service only, with domestic first seats and little possibility of int'l use, would be beneficial for UA.

I recall with great fondness my many flights in the 1990s from DEN-SFO on UA DC-10s with such a configuration -- and also CO A300s flying IAH-DEN, DEN-SFO, and EWR-SFO / LAX.

Really, it would just be applying a WB to flights now operated by 737s, but with a better experience -- since people do like the widebody feeling -- and it would have superior economics, assuming it had a good LF and cargo to boot.
 
gwrudolph
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:44 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I can't disagree if we open the discussion to reconfigure 772ER aircraft as they age and possibly replace 772A units. I'd guess time will tell if PE seats will be installed or demanded on hub to hub or routes like ORD-HNL-GUM - I expect 772A density behind door 2 if Polaris was reduced. In any case it would probably be a small sub-fleet of maybe a dozen aircraft as I doubt the economics or operating extended range aircraft on hub-to-hub routes (increased landing fees?) makes long term sense.

For the shorter term, Diamond seats don't replace forward/back facing 772A seating without lav and galley changes and that is probably too expensive for just a few years.

Regarding the 78X, I could envision 78X on ORD-HNL-GUM-HNL-ORD, 772As on HNL-IAH/LAX/SFO/DEN and 764s on HNL-EWR/IAD. That would utilize just 2 78X units and provide weight-restriction-free service and a 25% bonus in freight carrying capacity vs. a 772A or 772ER. I am not proposing the 78X on hub to hub service, rather only 2 units for ORD-HNL-GUM and I think 12 extra Polaris seats aren't that big of a difference.

The 78X looks to have have about 24 fewer seats than a modified 772ER (Polaris reduced to Zone 1 plus 3 rows of PE). 78X 44J/21PE/45E+/208Y= 318, 772ER modified 32J/24PE/286E+/Y=342. If you look at the Polaris config at least one row would be lost as lavs/galley extends into Zone 2 vs. the 772A configuration. If two rows are lost drop another 10 seats from the modified 772ER. (336 - 40(for PE space) -10 lavs/galley+ 286Y).

I believe UA placed the 44 Polaris seats on the 78X due to door positioning and will utilize the aircraft on TATL routes with good demand that has an average F/Y split. Due to lower Polaris seat count, it looks to be economical on Hawaii and Transcon routes.


While the 777ER might be a bit more expensive to operate domestically than the 777A due to the structural differences necessary to do ER flights, I believe they can be de-rated so as not to incur unnecessary landing fees.
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:45 pm

78J
N12005 B2 28Jan
N12006(?) LN814 Roll Out from FAL CHS
LN548 still wild card for registration
LN822 started FAL CHS
LN828 Parts arriving (2 more later this year) all CHS

39M
N37510 First revenue UA1684 LAXLAS UA1808 LASLAX 28Jan
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:16 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
I can't disagree if we open the discussion to reconfigure 772ER aircraft as they age and possibly replace 772A units. I'd guess time will tell if PE seats will be installed or demanded on hub to hub or routes like ORD-HNL-GUM - I expect 772A density behind door 2 if Polaris was reduced. In any case it would probably be a small sub-fleet of maybe a dozen aircraft as I doubt the economics or operating extended range aircraft on hub-to-hub routes (increased landing fees?) makes long term sense.

For the shorter term, Diamond seats don't replace forward/back facing 772A seating without lav and galley changes and that is probably too expensive for just a few years.

Regarding the 78X, I could envision 78X on ORD-HNL-GUM-HNL-ORD, 772As on HNL-IAH/LAX/SFO/DEN and 764s on HNL-EWR/IAD. That would utilize just 2 78X units and provide weight-restriction-free service and a 25% bonus in freight carrying capacity vs. a 772A or 772ER. I am not proposing the 78X on hub to hub service, rather only 2 units for ORD-HNL-GUM and I think 12 extra Polaris seats aren't that big of a difference.

The 78X looks to have have about 24 fewer seats than a modified 772ER (Polaris reduced to Zone 1 plus 3 rows of PE). 78X 44J/21PE/45E+/208Y= 318, 772ER modified 32J/24PE/286E+/Y=342. If you look at the Polaris config at least one row would be lost as lavs/galley extends into Zone 2 vs. the 772A configuration. If two rows are lost drop another 10 seats from the modified 772ER. (336 - 40(for PE space) -10 lavs/galley+ 286Y).

I believe UA placed the 44 Polaris seats on the 78X due to door positioning and will utilize the aircraft on TATL routes with good demand that has an average F/Y split. Due to lower Polaris seat count, it looks to be economical on Hawaii and Transcon routes.


While the 777ER might be a bit more expensive to operate domestically than the 777A due to the structural differences necessary to do ER flights, I believe they can be de-rated so as not to incur unnecessary landing fees.


I thought Landing fees were based on gross weight? Are they also based on thrust?
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:18 pm

codc10 wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
It's amazing UA has 9 777's out at one time (10% of the fleet): 1 Paint, 1 PE Add to 77W, 2 Maint, 5 Polaris Mod. Plus 3 more 767's in Polaris Mod. With that volume, I'd say there will be many happy summer travelers that will get a Polaris bird upgrade that isn't firm in the schedule. Good stuff.


This is an aggressive pace. It is hard to be critical of United's current level of commitment to the project, and rightfully so, as the IPTE business class product isn't globally competitive in 2019.


United is fully committed at this point! they got rid of the 3-class 763 quick. The 3-class 772's should be done by this year.

is there a proposed seat map for the Polaris 788 and 789?? im wondering if they'll the Polaris seats between door 1 and 2 for the 788/789 and PE right behind door 2.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:01 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
While the 777ER might be a bit more expensive to operate domestically than the 777A due to the structural differences necessary to do ER flights, I believe they can be de-rated so as not to incur unnecessary landing fees.


I thought Landing fees were based on gross weight? Are they also based on thrust?

If the engines are derated then the aircraft would have a lower maximum takeoff weight, which I believe is how landing fees are usually calculated. I'm no expert, so I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:19 pm

iahcsr wrote:
78J
N12005 B2 28Jan
N12006(?) LN814 Roll Out from FAL CHS
LN548 still wild card for registration
LN822 started FAL CHS
LN828 Parts arriving (2 more later this year) all CHS

39M
N37510 First revenue UA1684 LAXLAS UA1808 LASLAX 28Jan

78J
N12005 B3 CHSFTW Paint. 28Jan
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
jayunited
Posts: 1876
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:26 pm

Just came across this update aircraft N12004 (78J) joins the fleet 2/1/2019, CHS-IAD.
 
FSDan
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:18 am

Schweigend wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Why not take those 6 and put them back to their original purpose? Back in the 80's and 90's, airlines thought it made sense to have widebodies in the US. Slap some domestic F seats up front and toss those back on DEN-ORD, etc. like the old DC-10's. In the 80's airlines were small, so made the most of their routes, in the 2000's frequency trumped capacity, to the point that CRJ's ended up on off hours. Now UA is investing on domestic growth. Frequency is nice, but when you already have a flight every hour, adding a flight on the half hour doesn't really add anything extra for frequency, so might as well upgauge. It's time to bring back domestic widebodies (dedicated, that is)


The original 77A layout was 6 across x 6 rows. 36 seats in front of Door 2, but I don't remember what the galley/lav arrangment was, so I don't know if you could fit more rows in today. 6 seems like a small fleet, but base them all out of the same city. Say DEN, have 5 fly out to LAX/SFO/ORD/IAD/IAH, and one spare, then ORD could do a tag onto IAD or EWR. Each of those planes could do 2 out and backs in a day, with plenty of downtime, and a healthy boost to capacity hub to hub. If DEN doesn't make sense, you could easily do the same from ORD instead.


I think you have a very good idea.

Not all domestic hub-hub flights require the Polaris Experience!

Perhaps certain transcons do, but not all of them, all the time.

Along with you, I'd like to see these aircraft used on regular domestic flights, and I agree that a subfleet dedicated to domestic service only, with domestic first seats and little possibility of int'l use, would be beneficial for UA.


UA's basically already doing that. As the schedule currently stands, EWR-MAD is the only international route being flown on the 77A this summer. Besides that, there's:
HNL-GUM x1
HNL-SFO x3
HNL-LAX x1
HNL-DEN x1
HNL-IAH x1
HNL-ORD x1
OGG-DEN x1
OGG-ORD x1
DEN-SFO x1
DEN-LAX x1
DEN-IAH x1
DEN-ORD x2
IAH-SFO x1
IAH-LAX x1
EWR-SFO x3
EWR-LAX x1

So, at least 4 daily domestic (incl. Hawai'i) 77A flights from each hub except IAD. And IAD does at least have some international widebodies flying domestic flights (IAD-SFO: 1x 788 + 1x 77E, IAD-DEN: 1x 788, IAD-IAH: 1x 763).
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iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:45 am

jayunited wrote:
Just came across this update aircraft N12004 (78J) joins the fleet 2/1/2019, CHS-IAD.

They choose to wait til the 1st? It’s ready now... Whatever... Probably don’t want to show it on this months financial report. :dollarsign: :scratchchin:
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:17 am

iahcsr wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Just came across this update aircraft N12004 (78J) joins the fleet 2/1/2019, CHS-IAD.

They choose to wait til the 1st? It’s ready now... Whatever... Probably don’t want to show it on this months financial report. :dollarsign: :scratchchin:

I believe its getting contractually delivered on 1/31 with delivery flight on 2/1.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:04 am

763:
N672UA exited MCO maint 2741/27Jan
N677UA entered MCO maint 2741/17Jan, sked to exit 2740/29Jan

772:
N79011 did take a test hop at HKG, but HKG exit cancelled.
 
sohanb82
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:31 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
763:
N672UA exited MCO maint 2741/27Jan
N677UA entered MCO maint 2741/17Jan, sked to exit 2740/29Jan


Are these aircraft being ferried to MCO from a hub? Or do they enter after a revenue flight? Do they go straight back into revenue service after leaving MCO?
 
gwrudolph
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:42 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
While the 777ER might be a bit more expensive to operate domestically than the 777A due to the structural differences necessary to do ER flights, I believe they can be de-rated so as not to incur unnecessary landing fees.


I thought Landing fees were based on gross weight? Are they also based on thrust?

If the engines are derated then the aircraft would have a lower maximum takeoff weight, which I believe is how landing fees are usually calculated. I'm no expert, so I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.


Correct. They are often based on MGTOW. United has a lot of experience in certifying at lower weights (which limits some missions) to ensure they aren’t unnecessarily overpaying on landing fees
 
flyguy84
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:02 pm

sohanb82 wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
763:
N672UA exited MCO maint 2741/27Jan
N677UA entered MCO maint 2741/17Jan, sked to exit 2740/29Jan


Are these aircraft being ferried to MCO from a hub? Or do they enter after a revenue flight? Do they go straight back into revenue service after leaving MCO?

They are ferried and usually yes....
SFO
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:29 pm

FSDan wrote:
EWR-SFO x3
EWR-LAX x1

I think these are terrible. I would be appalled if I chose UA over AA/DL for their Transcon formerly P.S. and got a middle seat up front. Any other routes that UA wants to put them on for domestic, they're arguably an upgrade over a 737 classic F seat, but they shouldn't be on P.S. or whatever they're calling it now.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:06 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Just came across this update aircraft N12004 (78J) joins the fleet 2/1/2019, CHS-IAD.

They choose to wait til the 1st? It’s ready now... Whatever... Probably don’t want to show it on this months financial report. :dollarsign: :scratchchin:

I believe its getting contractually delivered on 1/31 with delivery flight on 2/1.



Will this be an IAD based bird? What route are they looking at utilizing it on and what metal might it replace?
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:16 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
They choose to wait til the 1st? It’s ready now... Whatever... Probably don’t want to show it on this months financial report. :dollarsign: :scratchchin:

I believe its getting contractually delivered on 1/31 with delivery flight on 2/1.



Will this be an IAD based bird? What route are they looking at utilizing it on and what metal might it replace?


No this is not an IAD based bird, all UA 78Js go through induction at IAD then are flown to either EWR, LAX or SFO. Last time I checked (a few days ago) one 78J was at EWR, another was at SFO, and one is in service on LAX-EWR-LAX route. Next month a second 78J enters service on SFO-EWR-SFO. Starting this spring most of the 78Js will be based at EWR for use on TATL routes a simple search can provide you the routes and dates the TATL routes will go 78J.
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:24 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
They choose to wait til the 1st? It’s ready now... Whatever... Probably don’t want to show it on this months financial report. :dollarsign: :scratchchin:

I believe its getting contractually delivered on 1/31 with delivery flight on 2/1.



Will this be an IAD based bird? What route are they looking at utilizing it on and what metal might it replace?

N12004 C2 29Jan

IAD is the location were UA puts the aircraft though the ‘Induction’ proceedure in preparation for service. 39Ms are done at SEA. This takes several days and includes modifications, installing equipment, softwear, and other bells ,whistles, dodads and gizwhizies.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:41 pm

iahcsr wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
I believe its getting contractually delivered on 1/31 with delivery flight on 2/1.



Will this be an IAD based bird? What route are they looking at utilizing it on and what metal might it replace?

N12004 C2 29Jan

IAD is the location were UA puts the aircraft though the ‘Induction’ proceedure in preparation for service. 39Ms are done at SEA. This takes several days and includes modifications, installing equipment, softwear, and other bells ,whistles, dodads and gizwhizies.


It will be interesting to see where N12004 and its brothers go as they will come off the line pretty quickly and IAD may not be able to handle them all.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:32 pm

cosyr wrote:
FSDan wrote:
EWR-SFO x3
EWR-LAX x1

I think these are terrible. I would be appalled if I chose UA over AA/DL for their Transcon formerly P.S. and got a middle seat up front. Any other routes that UA wants to put them on for domestic, they're arguably an upgrade over a 737 classic F seat, but they shouldn't be on P.S. or whatever they're calling it now.


I could not agree more! I almost had to go to Madrid this past summer for business- when I saw it was a HD 772, for the same price as Zurich etc, I was going to fly to another city and connect.

I personally think they are fine for some missions, I would be fine to Hawaii (if I had a window) but on transcontinental they would seriously damage some pax from ever returning to UA for transcon or TATL. I understood they had to do it as there were 772’s out for mods, but the average person probably would not know that and cut UA some slack. But for $7500 to Madrid- nope.

IMHO: transcon is becoming urgent. If they could only get their hands on the right aircraft- even if they broke with Boeing for 15 frames. Or (I wish) 15 763 brand new just for p.s.- dreaming, I know!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:46 pm

VC10er wrote:
cosyr wrote:
FSDan wrote:
EWR-SFO x3
EWR-LAX x1



IMHO: transcon is becoming urgent. If they could only get their hands on the right aircraft- even if they broke with Boeing for 15 frames. Or (I wish) 15 763 brand new just for p.s.- dreaming, I know!

UA actually tried to get new 763s... But the supply chain for passenger specific parts doesn’t exist anymore and the costs involved to restart it for such a small number of frames proved to high to make it work.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:55 am

For what its worth if UA wanted lie flat seating on all transcon flights here are the numbers using Thursday Jun 20, 2019 flights. Total roundtrips transcons are 84 per day:

EWR 38 daily, SFO15, LAX12, SEA4, SAN3, PDX2, SMF1, YVR1,
IAD 24 daily, SFO7, LAX8, SEA4, SAN3, PDX1, SMF1,
LAX 6 more daily, BOS3, MCO2, BWI1 (Total 26 departures)
SFO 18 more daily, BOS8, MCO3, BWI2, PHL2 TPA2, FLL1 (Total 40 departures)

As for Hawaii using Thursday June 20, 2019 flights. Total roundtrips are 37 per day. At this point only widebodies and 752s have lie flat seats on Hawaiian service

HNL 15 daily, SFO5, LAX5, DEN1, ORD1, IAH1, EWR1, IAD1
OGG 10 daily, SFO5, LAX3, DEN1, ORD1
KOA 6 daily, SFO3, LAX2, DEN1
LIH 5 daily, SFO2, LAX2, DEN1
ITO 1 daily, LAX/1

There are enough Diamond 772 seats coming off the sCO 772ER to cover all 19 772As with Diamond seats. The newest sCO units are 2007 (2) & 2010 (2) - it would need half the seats from 1999-2002 build aircraft. Question is if is worth moving lavs and galleys for mostly 1995/96 build units (6 are 2000 build). If UA could get another 10 years out of these aircraft 772As could cover lots of transcons/Hawaii and move the 753 onto hub to hub routes. Of course a split fleet could have Diamond and back/forward lie flat seats, but flexibility would be impacted.

I wonder if UA has the option to slide the mid cabin lav aft a bit on the 737MAX10 to be placed between F and Y on the "ps" type units? Is the mid cabin lav stuck in one position regardless of carrier choice? Will UA stick with Diamond style seats on the 737MAX10 or move to something else - if something else, then UA will have several types of premium seats in the fleet.

Remember that UA has a lot of widebodies coming online and few exiting. All of these can't be flown International, meaning UA will operate a mix or 763/764/772A/78X and maybe 772ERs on domestic service.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:10 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
For what its worth if UA wanted lie flat seating on all transcon flights here are the numbers using Thursday Jun 20, 2019 flights. Total roundtrips transcons are 84 per day:

EWR 38 daily, SFO15, LAX12, SEA4, SAN3, PDX2, SMF1, YVR1,
IAD 24 daily, SFO7, LAX8, SEA4, SAN3, PDX1, SMF1,
LAX 6 more daily, BOS3, MCO2, BWI1 (Total 26 departures)
SFO 18 more daily, BOS8, MCO3, BWI2, PHL2 TPA2, FLL1 (Total 40 departures)

As for Hawaii using Thursday June 20, 2019 flights. Total roundtrips are 37 per day. At this point only widebodies and 752s have lie flat seats on Hawaiian service

HNL 15 daily, SFO5, LAX5, DEN1, ORD1, IAH1, EWR1, IAD1
OGG 10 daily, SFO5, LAX3, DEN1, ORD1
KOA 6 daily, SFO3, LAX2, DEN1
LIH 5 daily, SFO2, LAX2, DEN1
ITO 1 daily, LAX/1

There are enough Diamond 772 seats coming off the sCO 772ER to cover all 19 772As with Diamond seats. The newest sCO units are 2007 (2) & 2010 (2) - it would need half the seats from 1999-2002 build aircraft. Question is if is worth moving lavs and galleys for mostly 1995/96 build units (6 are 2000 build). If UA could get another 10 years out of these aircraft 772As could cover lots of transcons/Hawaii and move the 753 onto hub to hub routes. Of course a split fleet could have Diamond and back/forward lie flat seats, but flexibility would be impacted.


After doing a bit of research you are absolutely correct looking at the current seat map for the GE powered 77Es there are 26 seats between door 1L/R and 2L/R. However if they were to refurbish these seats and place them on the 77A's UA could probably get 30 diamond seats in the same space because the LAV located at door 1L and the closet currently located at 5K/L on the GE 77Es are not on the domestic 77As. Also a slight shift with the galleys and LAVs on the 77As would be enough to fit 30 seats upfront and we can finally be rid of all IPTE seating arrangements. Even if UA didn't want to spend money to shift the 2 LAVs and galley behind first class just the fact that there is no LAV taking out 1A/B means UA could still have 28 seats upfront.

However I do have a question, if UA does in fact start taking delivery of the A359s in 2022 will we see all 77Es begin their retirement or do you think there is a chance some of these 77Es get a second lease on life within the UA fleet but relegated to domestic service in a domestic configuration? Or do you believe once all the 77As are retired the domestic wide body fleet will be made up of entirely of 764s, supplemented by internationally configured the 78Js and A359s?
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:34 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I wonder if UA has the option to slide the mid cabin lav aft a bit on the 737MAX10 to be placed between F and Y on the "ps" type units? Is the mid cabin lav stuck in one position regardless of carrier choice?


737NG lavs are essentially modular, so the mid-cabin lav can be moved forward, aft or eliminated altogether without a great deal of trouble (unlike the old days).
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:36 pm

jayunited wrote:
[Or do you believe once all the 77As are retired the domestic wide body fleet will be made up of entirely of 764s, supplemented by internationally configured the 78Js and A359s?


I don't think the 764 is the 77G replacement at all. The 764s will likely be the last fleet to get Polaris and will be the last United 767s in service 10-15 years from now. Strongest chance they stay international throughout.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:57 pm

WINDOWS: I'm not sure if an extra row of Diamond seats would fit in the HD version using space from a closet behind 5K/L and in no lav in front of 1A/B. It might work with a slimmer divider on front of Row 1, which hold video screens. The only other option would be to remove the dividers and have screens come out of the armrests.

CENTER: It would definitely take a galley mod in the center section by Row 4 on the HD configuration to match the galley behind 5D/E on the sCO version to get in 5 rows in the center section of the HD aircraft. This probably would see the loss of a row of Y in the center section (4 seats) unless F seats are slid forward by reduction, removal of front divider (video screens) or front galley narrowing.

With the galley change and all front dividers reduced, maybe 5 rows across the aircraft could be installed - 30 Seats. The center section could have 5 rows with or w/o loss of 4 Y seats depending on a redesigned divider. Alternative to retain 4 Y seats would be 4 rows in the center section of F - total 28 F seats.

Mod costs wouldn't be massive as lavs are not moved, but 2 small galleys would be replaced by a larger galley and dividers replaced/removed in front of F - this could be an issue if jump seats or other equipment are included in those dividers. Obviously a STC would be required.

It wouldn't seem to make economic sense unless there was no seat loss - gain from 28 outdated F seats to 30 better quality surplus seats may make the mod worthwhile. Hopefully there would be no loss in Y seat count. If this reconfiguration could be completed, UA could put new life into the 772A fleet for years to come with good lie flat seats on transcon/"ps" service as well as select TATL routes (non-competitive, low F demand, seasonal) and Hawaiian/GUM routes.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet/Network Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:11 pm

My guess on the 764 is that Door 2, not on the 763, doesn't match well with the length of Polaris seat sections. So, if the 764 gets Polaris and seating doesn't fit well, they could receive a smaller Polaris section with 2 or 3 rows of Y or PE in front of Door 2. UA has enough variance in route demand to utilize a lower premium 764 on TATL routes. It could compliment standard premium density on 763 and high J 76L aircraft.

Without Polaris the 764 could be utilized on Transcon/Hawaiian-West Coast routes and could replace the 772A on theses routes (except GUM and HNL-ORD/IAH/DEN), where the 78X or 772ER may take over at some time in the future.

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