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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:33 pm

aldrigsomandre wrote:
Where would TK use the 400+ pax jets?

I meant to say; 400+ seat pax jets, not 400 more jets :)
It is just another 50 pax more than the current 77Ws.
Any airport with slot restrictions will have to go to larger jets, like European cities, India, China, JFK, LAX, N.Africa
 
ist2014
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:02 pm

One question: i agree that some 333 will be freed after arrival of 787 and 359s in the next 5 years but majority of leased 332s and 7 skymark333s will be returned so 332s will be replaced by 333s
What abiut 77ws, will 30 frames be freed up as well or will it be just enough
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:27 pm

So, in the next 5 years; some 332s, 333s, 77Ws will leave the fleet, a total of 24 frames. With 789s and 359s coming, that is an increase of 26 WB frames in 5 years if no other WB arrivals. I believe TK will exercise the 5 each options for 789 and 359; so that makes it 36 frames.
And the average age of 333s and 77Ws in five years will be around 10 years old.
 
ist2014
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:46 pm

So if no departure or arrival except 24 mentioned by TK787, 36 for me means 12 asianOr latam+ 12 america new route or frequency increase (3 frames for 1 daily American and asian/african/latam destination based on current departue hours.
So we can have wishlist as : ewr, mex+cancun, den, dtw,dfw, sea, yvr. For asia and latam i am not so sure about new destinations. So it seems that there is room for transferring some 333s to regional routes and there is enough frames for long wih list.
The only issue seems frame for Austuralia if it is on the wish list
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:35 pm

lightsaber wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
THS214 wrote:
What is the situation of the new Istanbul airport?


Currently there are flights to Ankara, Izmir, Antalya, Adana, Hatay, Kayseri, Baku and Nicosia. From 10th January they will add:

Istanbul New Airport – Ashgabat 10JAN19 – 26FEB19 4 weekly 737-800
Istanbul New Airport – Diyarbakir 10JAN19 – 26FEB19 3 weekly A320
Istanbul New Airport – Frankfurt 10JAN19 – 28FEB19 1 daily 737-800
Istanbul New Airport – Gaziantep 10JAN19 – 28FEB19 1 daily 737-800
Istanbul New Airport – Hatay 10JAN19 – 28FEB19 3 weekly 737-800
Istanbul New Airport – Kuwait City 11JAN19 – 27FEB19 4 weekly 737-800
Istanbul New Airport – London Gatwick 04FEB19 – 28FEB19 4 weekly 737-800
Istanbul New Airport – Moscow Vnukovo 11JAN19 – 27FEB19 5 weekly 737-800
Istanbul New Airport – Munich 10JAN19 – 28FEB19 5 weekly 737-800
Istanbul New Airport – Paris CDG 10JAN19 – 28FEB19 1 daily A321
Istanbul New Airport – Tbilisi 10JAN19 – 27FEB19 1 daily A321
Istanbul New Airport – Trabzon 10JAN19 – 28FEB19 1 daily A320

The full opening is now planned for March. I will take a look at it again next week and see how things are going. It will be interesting to see the place with that much more traffic.

Are these times for thru/connecting flights?


I'm not sure about all of the times, but I think that the flights are spread out over the day between about 7am and 10pm. I couldn't see any flights arriving or departing in the middle of the night. It would be possible to connect from London to Tbilisi, for example, and the Turkish Airlines website does offer connecting flights via the new airport. For those people buying connecting flights, I guess it will be a lot better than going via Ataturk because they will have a huge almost-empty airport instead of a busy overcrowded one.

So far, the timetable at www.hava.ist for the buses to the airport haven't been updated to reflect the new schedules and they are showing the last bus to the airport leaving Taksim at 3:40pm. I imagine this will change soon. I've also noticed they've reduce the journey time to as low as 35 minutes to 4. Levent depending on the time of day.
 
uzzzer
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:46 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
It would be possible to connect from London to Tbilisi, for example, and the Turkish Airlines website does offer connecting flights via the new airport. For those people buying connecting flights, I guess it will be a lot better than going via Ataturk because they will have a huge almost-empty airport instead of a busy overcrowded one.


If the connection is short than the new airport is preferable, but otherwise, I would still use Ataturk. The new airport lacks basic services at the moment. One cannot buy a magazine or enjoy a tea in the vicinity of the gate. If I am not mistaken, the wifi still does not work (it didn't when I transited ISL two weeks ago). For business/gold travelers the lounges are unavailable. For those who would like to go into the city for a few hours, the commuting time is uncertain as the traffic risks are unknown.
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:59 pm

below is an overview I compiled and the timings of above mentioned additional routes from Istanbul New Airport:

Imageisl_new_routes
 
BlueTrue
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:28 pm

I notice Lgw is only for the month of February. Is this just a trial or will this flight become permanent?
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:24 pm

I want to take up a topic from previous months' thread regarding the codeshare agreement between TK and Indigo. I think it came up short, but it's a significant development.
We all know that TK maxed out their allowed capacities to India. I'm not sure if bilaterals dictate weekly frequency or seat capacity; it could also be the combination of both. Anyways...

Indigo's A320neo's accommodate 186 passengers which would be a weekly capacity of 1.302 seats each way (assuming one daily flight) .
The 32N can fly around 3.500nm which is more or less the range required for DEL/BOM to ISL (both around 3.000nm). Anything further like HYD or BLR will really bring it to the operational limit.
Now the questions remains, how significant and beneficial this is going to be for TK when it comes to own traffic rights as well as inbound codeshare traffic.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:26 pm

uzzzer wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
It would be possible to connect from London to Tbilisi, for example, and the Turkish Airlines website does offer connecting flights via the new airport. For those people buying connecting flights, I guess it will be a lot better than going via Ataturk because they will have a huge almost-empty airport instead of a busy overcrowded one.


If the connection is short than the new airport is preferable, but otherwise, I would still use Ataturk. The new airport lacks basic services at the moment. One cannot buy a magazine or enjoy a tea in the vicinity of the gate. If I am not mistaken, the wifi still does not work (it didn't when I transited ISL two weeks ago). For business/gold travelers the lounges are unavailable. For those who would like to go into the city for a few hours, the commuting time is uncertain as the traffic risks are unknown.


Yes, I suppose Ataturk is preferable if you want to use a business class lounge or visit the city, although on the other hand the queues at immigration and security must be a lot shorter at the new airport and it's actually pretty fast by bus to 4. Levent if that's the area you want to visit (about 45 minutes). Also I wouldn't say that there is no food, there is a Simit Sarayi and a Gloria Jeans cafe in the domestic transit area, I'm not sure what kind of food there is in the international area but I'd imagine there would be something. There is a D&R book/magazine store in the domestic area just after security. And although there are no lounges, the whole airport is so empty that there's plenty of space to stretch out, lie down and relax if you want. I find Ataturk very crowded and I hate the long queues. Hopefully they'll fix this permanently with the new airport and this will compensate to some extent the longer journey.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:31 pm

stylo777 wrote:
below is an overview I compiled and the timings of above mentioned additional routes from Istanbul New Airport:

Imageisl_new_routes


The interesting thing about that is that all the flights are between 9am and 10pm, so that still gives the construction crews about 12 hours per day to work. So the airport is open, but only 50% of the time right now and I imagine they do all kinds of work at night that they can't do with passengers around (things that kick up clouds of dust, create a lot of noise or danger etc).

Re. Indigo, it would be very interesting if low-cost Indian carriers start flying to Istanbul. I think that would be a good idea for them, because they can connect with cheap flights to all over Europe a bit like they do in Dubai. It also would be useful for me if I want to travel to Asia because I could use India to connect onto Air Asia and other low-cost Asian carriers.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:56 pm

BlueTrue wrote:
I notice Lgw is only for the month of February. Is this just a trial or will this flight become permanent?


All flights (domestic & international, inc. those that will commence Jan. 10th and onwards) are TRIAL FLIGHTS dedicated for ISL during this period of "transition". And there doesn't seem to be any definite signs the so-called "big bang" re-location from current IST (Ataturk Airport) will indeed and fully be accomplished by the beginning of March 2019. My gutfeel is end of March 2019 (or by the time that S19 Timetable starts on March 25th) at the best
or if more delayed, some time in May. :roll:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:03 pm

mafaky wrote:
BlueTrue wrote:
I notice Lgw is only for the month of February. Is this just a trial or will this flight become permanent?


All flights (domestic & international, inc. those that will commence Jan. 10th and onwards) are TRIAL FLIGHTS dedicated for ISL during this period of "transition". And there doesn't seem to be any definite signs the so-called "big bang" re-location from current IST (Ataturk Airport) will indeed and fully be accomplished by the beginning of March 2019. My gutfeel is end of March 2019 (or by the time that S19 Timetable starts on March 25th) at the best
or if more delayed, some time in May. :roll:


March definitely won't happen. 2020 is my guess.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:18 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
And although there are no lounges, the whole airport is so empty that there's plenty of space to stretch out, lie down and relax if you want. I find Ataturk very crowded and I hate the long queues. Hopefully they'll fix this permanently with the new airport and this will compensate to some extent the longer journey.

I guess you have been to ISL, in the meanwhile. If you really want to stretch out, then you must be taking your pillows with you as it's quite impossible to sit comfortably on those hard black and orange ABS (very hard plastic) seats for more than 30 mins. It's a shame for the builders to choose such cheapo seating. But, I guess those seats are an effective measure who attempt to use them as sleeperettes. In which case, we have to get more accustomed to scenes like in Dubai or India/Pakistan, that people from those countries (as well as those from Africa...) simply lay their blankets on the floor and sleep there, blocking the ways. :twisted: :o :banghead:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:29 pm

March definitely won't happen. 2020 is my guess.

For Heaven's sake!... You seem to be far more pessimistic than I am...

Are you aware how much "Unfulfilled Passenger Service Fees' Guarantee" the BOTS Consortium (IGA) will collect from the State as compensation, in such a case?

For a full year (say from Nov. 2018 till Nov.1019) it may amount to € 200-22 million. And that's taxpayers' money going out of our pockets! :twisted: :twisted: :oops:

(FYI: the said State Guarantee is around € 316 million, and valid only for O & D departing passengers (20€/head) and International to International Transfer passengers (5€/head). Whatever sum IGA collects during the first year of operations will be deduced from €316m, the balance will be paid to them as compensation!)
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:44 pm

mafaky wrote:
BlueTrue wrote:
I notice Lgw is only for the month of February. Is this just a trial or will this flight become permanent?


All flights (domestic & international, inc. those that will commence Jan. 10th and onwards) are TRIAL FLIGHTS dedicated for ISL during this period of "transition". And there doesn't seem to be any definite signs the so-called "big bang" re-location from current IST (Ataturk Airport) will indeed and fully be accomplished by the beginning of March 2019. My gutfeel is end of March 2019 (or by the time that S19 Timetable starts on March 25th) at the best
or if more delayed, some time in May. :roll:


Perhaps the politician(s) will feel that it's a huge risk to go ahead with this "big bang" changeover right before the election. If anything bad happens they will be blamed for it, especially if it looks like the problems are a direct consequence of rushing the opening for political reasons. Whilst the potential downside is huge, there is not much upside because they already cashed in their chips with the first opening - they can't have another big ceremony/rally there because it would get in the way of operations and people that are not using the airport themselves will hardly notice it. I think now they will turn their attention to other projects that they want to finish and use to stage political rallies right before the election, such as new metro lines and roads.

So the upshot of all of this is that the heat is off and they'll take as long as they need and move traffic across gradually. In my opinion this has a lot of benefits - as they move traffic across Ataturk will get less crowded and it will give them time to develop and gradually increase the capacity of all of the services at the new airport to cope with the demand. Temporarily Istanbul has 3 airports and it's actually quite a good thing. I'm wondering if they could find a way to keep it that way. Perhaps a few airlines could stay at Ataturk?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:37 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
Temporarily Istanbul has 3 airports and it's actually quite a good thing. I'm wondering if they could find a way to keep it that way. Perhaps a few airlines could stay at Ataturk?


That is the worst solution - especially for TK. They need to consolidate at the new airport.

Their entire S19 schedule is based on using the new airport. IST simply does not have the capacity or slots to handle the planned schedule and fleet growth.

There is a large expense and loss of efficiency TK and vendors are experiencing running a split operation for an extended period.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:45 pm

stylo777 wrote:
I want to take up a topic from previous months' thread regarding the codeshare agreement between TK and Indigo. I think it came up short, but it's a significant development.
We all know that TK maxed out their allowed capacities to India. I'm not sure if bilaterals dictate weekly frequency or seat capacity; it could also be the combination of both. Anyways...

Indigo's A320neo's accommodate 186 passengers which would be a weekly capacity of 1.302 seats each way (assuming one daily flight) .
The 32N can fly around 3.500nm which is more or less the range required for DEL/BOM to ISL (both around 3.000nm). Anything further like HYD or BLR will really bring it to the operational limit.
Now the questions remains, how significant and beneficial this is going to be for TK when it comes to own traffic rights as well as inbound codeshare traffic.


I agree with you, this is probably one of the major developments in recent months. Surprised there isn't more interest. In my opinion, this matters because itwill finally allow TK be relevant on the Indian market which is a great source of business for airlines such as Emirates, Etihad and Qatar.

Does anyone know what schedule IndiGo might use for their IST flights? Also, does A321neo have bigger range than the A320?
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:53 am

The 321neo has more range in standard version, but this depends on the airlines' specifications I guess (e.g. additional tanks as options).

Speaking of which and looking through the history of TK 321neo flights, I certainly believe it currently is a waste of investment. Their longest flights so far were to LIS at around 2.000nm with slightly shorter flights to DUB AUH ADB MAN OSL (all between 1.500-1.800nm). This is all in the range of 321ceo's or 738's. Why isn't it scheduled to operate really long flights?
Currently looking at FR24 I see 321neo's flying:
TFS-DME, STL-KEF, CEB-BNE - all above the 3.000nm range routes...
 
Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:59 am

stylo777 wrote:
The 321neo has more range in standard version, but this depends on the airlines' specifications I guess (e.g. additional tanks as options).

Speaking of which and looking through the history of TK 321neo flights, I certainly believe it currently is a waste of investment. Their longest flights so far were to LIS at around 2.000nm with slightly shorter flights to DUB AUH ADB MAN OSL (all between 1.500-1.800nm). This is all in the range of 321ceo's or 738's. Why isn't it scheduled to operate really long flights?
Currently looking at FR24 I see 321neo's flying:
TFS-DME, STL-KEF, CEB-BNE - all above the 3.000nm range routes...


If the A321neo has better economics, maybe they are sending them to destinations which are not performing as well as some others?
 
MeCe
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:45 pm

IST-MEX officially announced. Schedule as follows :


TK 181 21/08/2019 25/08/2019 ..3.5.7 IST 20:55 4:10 MEX +1

TK 181 22/08/2019 26/08/2019 1..4.6.MEX 05:30 7:50 CUN

TK 181 22/08/2019 26/08/2019 1..4.6. CUN 09:20 5:25 IST +1
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:14 pm

MeCe wrote:
IST-MEX officially announced. Schedule as follows :


TK 181 21/08/2019 25/08/2019 ..3.5.7 IST 20:55 4:10 MEX +1

TK 181 22/08/2019 26/08/2019 1..4.6.MEX 05:30 7:50 CUN

TK 181 22/08/2019 26/08/2019 1..4.6. CUN 09:20 5:25 IST +1

Congrats to TK !!!
This will become TK's longest flight, overtaking IST-LAX by more than 200 miles.
Is that IST-MEX block time really 16:15 hrs??
Is that 1:20 hrs. enough to turn around in MEX ???
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:18 pm

TK787 wrote:
MeCe wrote:
IST-MEX officially announced. Schedule as follows :


TK 181 21/08/2019 25/08/2019 ..3.5.7 IST 20:55 4:10 MEX +1

TK 181 22/08/2019 26/08/2019 1..4.6.MEX 05:30 7:50 CUN

TK 181 22/08/2019 26/08/2019 1..4.6. CUN 09:20 5:25 IST +1

Congrats to TK !!!
This will become TK's longest flight, overtaking IST-LAX by more than 200 miles.
Is that IST-MEX block time really 16:15 hrs??
Is that 1:20 hrs. enough to turn around in MEX ???


Is this a 787 route?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:50 pm

stylo777 wrote:
The 321neo has more range in standard version, but this depends on the airlines' specifications I guess (e.g. additional tanks as options).

Speaking of which and looking through the history of TK 321neo flights, I certainly believe it currently is a waste of investment. Their longest flights so far were to LIS at around 2.000nm with slightly shorter flights to DUB AUH ADB MAN OSL (all between 1.500-1.800nm). This is all in the range of 321ceo's or 738's. Why isn't it scheduled to operate really long flights?
Currently looking at FR24 I see 321neo's flying:
TFS-DME, STL-KEF, CEB-BNE - all above the 3.000nm range routes...

Waste as in not using the added capability or waste saving about 16% of fuel or cutting the flight cost about 5%?

The NEO is optimized for 2 hour missions or about 850nm. While that is better than the CEOs 75 minute optimization (extended by Sharklets and engine PIPs). While the plane has more range, widebodies start becoming competitive at 2,000nm.
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:50 pm

yes, the schedule is filed as 789 and indeed only 1:20 in MEX.
on the other hand, MEX is basically a "transit-stop" and they have another 1:30 hrs. in CUN; therefore, they could split servicing like cleaning, catering, crew change, fueling, etc. between both stations.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:55 pm

aldrigsomandre wrote:

Is this a 787 route?

I would think so. 6 x 789s coming this year starting June. Line no's: 865, 873, 879, 883, 897, 899
So, maybe in July they will do some short hops domestic and International and by August TK starts DPS and IAD with 787s and mid September BOG-PTY. So MEX is during the same time with those. Maybe they have enough frames for all by end of August.
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:08 pm

TK787 wrote:
aldrigsomandre wrote:

Is this a 787 route?

I would think so. 6 x 789s coming this year starting June. Line no's: 865, 873, 879, 883, 897, 899
So, maybe in July they will do some short hops domestic and International and by August TK starts DPS and IAD with 787s and mid September BOG-PTY. So MEX is during the same time with those. Maybe they have enough frames for all by end of August.


Thank you.
Looks like the Americas will benefit the most from the first batch of 787s.
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
The 321neo has more range in standard version, but this depends on the airlines' specifications I guess (e.g. additional tanks as options).

Speaking of which and looking through the history of TK 321neo flights, I certainly believe it currently is a waste of investment. Their longest flights so far were to LIS at around 2.000nm with slightly shorter flights to DUB AUH ADB MAN OSL (all between 1.500-1.800nm). This is all in the range of 321ceo's or 738's. Why isn't it scheduled to operate really long flights?
Currently looking at FR24 I see 321neo's flying:
TFS-DME, STL-KEF, CEB-BNE - all above the 3.000nm range routes...

Waste as in not using the added capability or waste saving about 16% of fuel or cutting the flight cost about 5%?

The NEO is optimized for 2 hour missions or about 850nm. While that is better than the CEOs 75 minute optimization (extended by Sharklets and engine PIPs). While the plane has more range, widebodies start becoming competitive at 2,000nm.

Well, thanks for pointing it out. I wanted to say "waste of not using the added range" as we all know the neo's have better economics anyways.

Nevertheless, I didn't quite understand your "optimization" comment. It's hard to believe that anything above 850nm isn't optimized (economicially viable so to say) for the neo. Since PC is operating already many neo's, how does their neo-network, utilization and performance compared to the wingletted-ceo's look like? I read somewhere else that for example LH is scheduling the 320neo on rather short flights of up to 2hrs despite being launch customer and having quite a few in the fleet by now.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:10 pm

For Turkish members, THY signed an agreement with Finansbank for Miles & Smiles credit card partnership. Not sure if this is a replacement for the Garanti Bank relationship, or in addition to.


Regarding the NEO discussion, be it a 250nm or 2500nm trip, the NEO is more fuel efficient than the CEO models.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
leftyboarder
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:40 pm

LAXintl wrote:
For Turkish members, THY signed an agreement with Finansbank for Miles & Smiles credit card partnership. Not sure if this is a replacement for the Garanti Bank relationship, or in addition to.


Regarding the NEO discussion, be it a 250nm or 2500nm trip, the NEO is more fuel efficient than the CEO models.


It is in addition to the Garanti deal as that still has several years to expire. At the end of that however TK might choose to not renew that one and keep QNB only.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:32 pm

Germania are having some fairly significant financial difficulties; more details on this thread - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1412611

Germania has a significant number of routes between Germany and small/medium-szied airports in Turkey (i.e. not Istanbul). In particular, they are the only airline to fly to Zonguldak. As far as I can tell there are no Turkish domestic routes served by regular flights with commercial airlines from Zonguldak

Anyone have any thoughts as to what the future of Zonguldak airport is ?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:01 am

Zonguldak airport dates back to 1940s as a military field and was rebuilt in 1999. Until about 2008 the airport had rather big performance restrictions due high hill at one end of the runway which was eventually shaved down. The airport did see scheduled domestic service to both Istanbul and Trabzon but dropped due to insufficient demand.
In recent times TK has stated it would consider restarting ops to the airport if an ILS system was installed to offer better reliability during winter months.

Frankly the issue is that much of the traffic goes via road (frequent bus service) as the distance is about ~300km to Istanbul and ~275km to Ankara, not exactly an ideal distance for air service unless you utilize smaller regional aircraft.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:24 pm

Hey folks, I just came across this yesterday randomly.
I spotted TC-JOO TK's 332F, doing a HEL-ISL flight. When I look I see it did a bunch of ISL flights. Is this a glitch, any ideas??
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-joo
 
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Yakamoz
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:59 pm

TK787 wrote:
Hey folks, I just came across this yesterday randomly.
I spotted TC-JOO TK's 332F, doing a HEL-ISL flight. When I look I see it did a bunch of ISL flights. Is this a glitch, any ideas??
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-joo
Flightradar24 error. Turkish Cargo is still at IST.
 
ramzi
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:10 pm

TK787 wrote:
Hey folks, I just came across this yesterday randomly.
I spotted TC-JOO TK's 332F, doing a HEL-ISL flight. When I look I see it did a bunch of ISL flights. Is this a glitch, any ideas??
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-joo


I also have noticed several flights routed to ISL according to FR24, however they all end up 'diverting' to Istanbul or glitching and disappearing. I am guessing this is because cargo will remain at Ataturk after the move, and thus will need to use ISL when the codes are switched.

On a different note, I really hope the move is not delayed any further. I flew into IST yesterday and the holding pattern was something of a joke. Around 1 hour flight time supplemented by 40mins between holding and approach, with insane traffic. The upside was a nice back and forth over Istanbul at sunset. This also made me wonder what the runway situation will be at the new airport--it will initially open with two runways, right? How is that going to be better then the situation at Ataturk right now?
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lightsaber
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:53 pm

ramzi wrote:
TK787 wrote:
Hey folks, I just came across this yesterday randomly.
I spotted TC-JOO TK's 332F, doing a HEL-ISL flight. When I look I see it did a bunch of ISL flights. Is this a glitch, any ideas??
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-joo


I also have noticed several flights routed to ISL according to FR24, however they all end up 'diverting' to Istanbul or glitching and disappearing. I am guessing this is because cargo will remain at Ataturk after the move, and thus will need to use ISL when the codes are switched.

On a different note, I really hope the move is not delayed any further. I flew into IST yesterday and the holding pattern was something of a joke. Around 1 hour flight time supplemented by 40mins between holding and approach, with insane traffic. The upside was a nice back and forth over Istanbul at sunset. This also made me wonder what the runway situation will be at the new airport--it will initially open with two runways, right? How is that going to be better then the situation at Ataturk right now?

The new IST has parallel runways. This should allow mixed mode operations. In rough numbers, a third more movements.

The current Istanbul just doesn't have the land to move aircraft on the ground either. I roughly estimate that contributed 15 to 20 minutes of your delay. With far more taxiways, gates, and parking spots, the new IST will be able to land almost twice the aircraft per hour while still allowing aircraft to take off at the rate of the old IST.

A 3rd runway is needed. But parallel runways have a huge advantage over crossing runways. The taxiway system will really help too.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:13 pm

lightsaber wrote:
With far more taxiways, gates, and parking spots, the new IST will be able to land almost twice the aircraft per hour while still allowing aircraft to take off at the rate of the old IST.

A 3rd runway is needed. But parallel runways have a huge advantage over crossing runways. The taxiway system will really help too.

Lightsaber

On a totally different note, but somehow similar.... I have been hooked on this game called "airportCEO", where you start from scratch and build bus-stops arriving from the city, terminal, checkin desk, security lines, gates, boarding gates, jet stands, runways, taxiways, staff rooms, bathrooms, shops....Most of the scheduling of the airlines could be done automatically... it is more of an architecture, flow of passengers and aircraft type of simulation.
After 40 hours or so of play, I have 3 runways, 13 Medium Gates, 9 Small Gates, 16 General Aviation stands, bunch of shops and stuff and making money regularly.
It is a steep learning curve. I suggest to watch some instructional youtube videos before jumping in, especially from youtuber, "ConflictNerd".
It is fun and gives you a small glimpse of large scale airport operations :)
 
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AirbusA343
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:31 pm

ramzi wrote:
TK787 wrote:
Hey folks, I just came across this yesterday randomly.
I spotted TC-JOO TK's 332F, doing a HEL-ISL flight. When I look I see it did a bunch of ISL flights. Is this a glitch, any ideas??
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-joo


I also have noticed several flights routed to ISL according to FR24, however they all end up 'diverting' to Istanbul or glitching and disappearing. I am guessing this is because cargo will remain at Ataturk after the move, and thus will need to use ISL when the codes are switched.

On a different note, I really hope the move is not delayed any further. I flew into IST yesterday and the holding pattern was something of a joke. Around 1 hour flight time supplemented by 40mins between holding and approach, with insane traffic. The upside was a nice back and forth over Istanbul at sunset. This also made me wonder what the runway situation will be at the new airport--it will initially open with two runways, right? How is that going to be better then the situation at Ataturk right now?

Today was totally bonkers too, possibly worse than yesterday. Flights were taking off and landing on Runway 35 and the holding patterns were insane. I tracked TK1976, from Dublin and it circled 10 times but landed on Runway 23. I saw the Manchester flight was badly delayed too as well as pretty much every flight landing at the time. It took 5:33, it usually takes closer to 4 hours and on a good day the flight can be up to two hours less than what it was today.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:07 pm

Well, there was an earlier airporthaber.com report that a Turkish Military C-130 was stuck on 5/23 runway after bursting tires upon landing. Runway closed for sometime but not sure what a C-130 doing in the middle of IST!!!!!
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... tladi.html
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:59 am

TK787 wrote:
Well, there was an earlier airporthaber.com report that a Turkish Military C-130 was stuck on 5/23 runway after bursting tires upon landing. Runway closed for sometime but not sure what a C-130 doing in the middle of IST!!!!!
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... tladi.html


Thankfully it was a C-160, not a C-130 Hercules. (C-160 is quite smaller than the C-130)
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
Blerg
Posts: 1500
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:39 am

AirbusA343 wrote:
ramzi wrote:
TK787 wrote:
Hey folks, I just came across this yesterday randomly.
I spotted TC-JOO TK's 332F, doing a HEL-ISL flight. When I look I see it did a bunch of ISL flights. Is this a glitch, any ideas??
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-joo


I also have noticed several flights routed to ISL according to FR24, however they all end up 'diverting' to Istanbul or glitching and disappearing. I am guessing this is because cargo will remain at Ataturk after the move, and thus will need to use ISL when the codes are switched.

On a different note, I really hope the move is not delayed any further. I flew into IST yesterday and the holding pattern was something of a joke. Around 1 hour flight time supplemented by 40mins between holding and approach, with insane traffic. The upside was a nice back and forth over Istanbul at sunset. This also made me wonder what the runway situation will be at the new airport--it will initially open with two runways, right? How is that going to be better then the situation at Ataturk right now?

Today was totally bonkers too, possibly worse than yesterday. Flights were taking off and landing on Runway 35 and the holding patterns were insane. I tracked TK1976, from Dublin and it circled 10 times but landed on Runway 23. I saw the Manchester flight was badly delayed too as well as pretty much every flight landing at the time. It took 5:33, it usually takes closer to 4 hours and on a good day the flight can be up to two hours less than what it was today.


I noticed that too, a friend of mine was flying on KK from Ercan and the flight took three hours! They made at least ten circles over Bursa.
 
TK773ER
Posts: 158
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:57 am

TK carries 75 MIL passengers for 2018 up 10% from the previous year if 2019 continues with similar growth we should see 83+ MIL this year. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/turkis ... 18/1361264
 
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alaturka
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:19 am

All Make sense now. I've been living Atakent area almost 9 years and first time since then I saw planes were approaching IST over that area which is normaly planes take off towards that direction.
 
ramzi
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:04 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:03 pm

lightsaber wrote:
ramzi wrote:
TK787 wrote:
Hey folks, I just came across this yesterday randomly.
I spotted TC-JOO TK's 332F, doing a HEL-ISL flight. When I look I see it did a bunch of ISL flights. Is this a glitch, any ideas??
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-joo


I also have noticed several flights routed to ISL according to FR24, however they all end up 'diverting' to Istanbul or glitching and disappearing. I am guessing this is because cargo will remain at Ataturk after the move, and thus will need to use ISL when the codes are switched.

On a different note, I really hope the move is not delayed any further. I flew into IST yesterday and the holding pattern was something of a joke. Around 1 hour flight time supplemented by 40mins between holding and approach, with insane traffic. The upside was a nice back and forth over Istanbul at sunset. This also made me wonder what the runway situation will be at the new airport--it will initially open with two runways, right? How is that going to be better then the situation at Ataturk right now?

The new IST has parallel runways. This should allow mixed mode operations. In rough numbers, a third more movements.

The current Istanbul just doesn't have the land to move aircraft on the ground either. I roughly estimate that contributed 15 to 20 minutes of your delay. With far more taxiways, gates, and parking spots, the new IST will be able to land almost twice the aircraft per hour while still allowing aircraft to take off at the rate of the old IST.

A 3rd runway is needed. But parallel runways have a huge advantage over crossing runways. The taxiway system will really help too.

Lightsaber


Thanks for the explanation Lightsaber, I can certainly envision how the new airport will bring instant improvement to this situation.

Yes, yesterday was even worse, flights were holding around 90mins, and there were lots of go-arounds, I noticed I think a TK flight from Vienna do 3 of them, must have been a blast for the passengers. I would guess the primary reason was wind blowing out of the south at 30+mph with gusts. It was fun to stare at FR24 and watch dozens of planes go around in circles. If I'm honest its pretty impressive that ATC were able to manage all this traffic in such poor conditions and a tiny airport. Take-offs were queued too, I can imagine they had to send planes out just as fast as they're coming in or everything would have come to a halt.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:40 pm

ramzi wrote:
If I'm honest its pretty impressive that ATC were able to manage all this traffic in such poor conditions and a tiny airport.

:) Isn't this incredible that IST still considered a tiny airport? It has been in the top 15 busiest airports in the world by passenger numbers for years. And all this is done by mostly single aisle jets. Think about EK and DXB and then think about TK and IST. It is even more impressive that TK can carry 75M pax in 2018 with a fleet with less than 1/3 of it is Twin aisles.
 
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AirbusA343
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:04 pm

I tracked TK322 to Ashgabat yesterday and it had an astonishing taxi time of almost two hours at IST before taking off!!! This morning also had another wave of delays but definitely not as significant as yesterday!!
 
ramzi
Posts: 205
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:55 pm

TK787 wrote:
ramzi wrote:
If I'm honest its pretty impressive that ATC were able to manage all this traffic in such poor conditions and a tiny airport.

:) Isn't this incredible that IST still considered a tiny airport? It has been in the top 15 busiest airports in the world by passenger numbers for years. And all this is done by mostly single aisle jets. Think about EK and DXB and then think about TK and IST. It is even more impressive that TK can carry 75M pax in 2018 with a fleet with less than 1/3 of it is Twin aisles.


Ha. I realized after posting that 'tiny' was probably not accurate, but honestly the airport is tiny with respect to the insane traffic that goes through it, still astonished they are able to pull all this off.

I am intrigued by TK's highly effective use of narrow bodies, I have flown 739s domestically that had just returned from 7-8 hour flights to West Africa and other destinations. I can only imagine what TK could do with the A321neo and the MAX.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1359
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:24 pm

Here's an update on the progress at the New Istanbul Airport:

The lifts are now working, some of the car park modules are open and the others look almost ready, there is a large Gloria Jeans cafe open in arrivals and there are about 20 international and domestic flights per day. The Avis car rental office looks like it might open soon. Here is a video from our trip there today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgXOkYcZ3Iw
 
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mafaky
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:48 am

mafaky wrote:
TK787 wrote:
Well, there was an earlier airporthaber.com report that a Turkish Military C-130 was stuck on 5/23 runway after bursting tires upon landing. Runway closed for sometime but not sure what a C-130 doing in the middle of IST!!!!!
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... tladi.html


Thankfully it was a C-160, not a C-130 Hercules. (C-160 is quite smaller than the C-130)


Sorry, but I have to correct myself: it was indeed a C-130; just saw the photos (under heavy raining) in some Instagram account by a spotter.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:41 pm

Turkish Airlines is returning to the Super Bowl for its third consecutive Big Game spot. The 30-second commercial will air in the first quarter of the Big Game, on Feb. 3.

https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/ ... cond-spot/
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