steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:17 pm

Not sure about CLE, but I believe RDU is a full-fledged focus city of sorts for DL. I suppose it is possible to see some of these other cities picked up by DL, but it would be a stretch. Regarding PIT-AUS, I believe Allegiant has seasonal service there.
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SANFan
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:51 pm

It's interesting to me that it wasn't until Reply #16 that someone predicted service to SAN. I assume the F9 service in the market was indeed dropped this month (tomorrow?) and permanently.

The latest numbers I've seen, 2Q18, show 123 PDEW (per the DOT's Table 6) which is prolly enough to support nonstop service. Frontier, offering sub-daily service for only a few months -- Fall and Winter -- apparently wasn't happy with the route. But that's Frontier. (Certainly not big in SAN and I don't know about PIT...)

Do folks on this thread feel that either WN or AS would really try the route on for size and hopefully make it work? I do. There are other routes from SAN with higher PDEW that are still underserved but I think PIT is now about the largest unserved destination from SAN. That of course doesn't mean it automatically deserves or must have nonstop service but a number like 123 PDEW could, IMO, very well be successful.

I would love to see a real airline fly between PIT and SAN, offering reliable and consistent business-type service (meaning daily or close to it, and NOT seasonal.) I would be curious if any rumors or remarks from your airport folks or media are seen or heard indicating a desire to get service in this market.

Have a great year at PIT everyone!

bb
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:14 pm

SANFan wrote:
It's interesting to me that it wasn't until Reply #16 that someone predicted service to SAN. I assume the F9 service in the market was indeed dropped this month (tomorrow?) and permanently.

The latest numbers I've seen, 2Q18, show 123 PDEW (per the DOT's Table 6) which is prolly enough to support nonstop service. Frontier, offering sub-daily service for only a few months -- Fall and Winter -- apparently wasn't happy with the route. But that's Frontier. (Certainly not big in SAN and I don't know about PIT...)

Do folks on this thread feel that either WN or AS would really try the route on for size and hopefully make it work? I do. There are other routes from SAN with higher PDEW that are still underserved but I think PIT is now about the largest unserved destination from SAN. That of course doesn't mean it automatically deserves or must have nonstop service but a number like 123 PDEW could, IMO, very well be successful.

I would love to see a real airline fly between PIT and SAN, offering reliable and consistent business-type service (meaning daily or close to it, and NOT seasonal.) I would be curious if any rumors or remarks from your airport folks or media are seen or heard indicating a desire to get service in this market.

Have a great year at PIT everyone!

bb


I understand the desire for year-round service but PIT-SAN is around 95 PDEW during the winter. That’s tiny for a route that long. Southwest is even suspending the daily TPA-SAN flight during Jan and Feb and that market is 181 PDEW, so twice the size. Year-round PIT-SAN doesn’t seem feasible imo. If anything it should be summer seasonal.
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:33 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
SANFan wrote:
It's interesting to me that it wasn't until Reply #16 that someone predicted service to SAN. I assume the F9 service in the market was indeed dropped this month (tomorrow?) and permanently.

The latest numbers I've seen, 2Q18, show 123 PDEW (per the DOT's Table 6) which is prolly enough to support nonstop service. Frontier, offering sub-daily service for only a few months -- Fall and Winter -- apparently wasn't happy with the route. But that's Frontier. (Certainly not big in SAN and I don't know about PIT...)

Do folks on this thread feel that either WN or AS would really try the route on for size and hopefully make it work? I do. There are other routes from SAN with higher PDEW that are still underserved but I think PIT is now about the largest unserved destination from SAN. That of course doesn't mean it automatically deserves or must have nonstop service but a number like 123 PDEW could, IMO, very well be successful.

I would love to see a real airline fly between PIT and SAN, offering reliable and consistent business-type service (meaning daily or close to it, and NOT seasonal.) I would be curious if any rumors or remarks from your airport folks or media are seen or heard indicating a desire to get service in this market.

Have a great year at PIT everyone!

bb


I understand the desire for year-round service but PIT-SAN is around 95 PDEW during the winter. That’s tiny for a route that long. Southwest is even suspending the daily TPA-SAN flight during Jan and Feb and that market is 181 PDEW, so twice the size. Year-round PIT-SAN doesn’t seem feasible imo. If anything it should be summer seasonal.

For the heck of it, this is how the route did the first month it operated.

Frontier Airlines Aug 2018
PIT-DEN: 95% DEN-PIT: 95%
PIT-MCO: 80% MCO-PIT: 76%
PIT-SAN: 67% SAN-PIT: 63%

SAN did only operate five times (Mon/Fri schedule that started on 8/13), but those loads aren't spectacular and this was on the tail end of summer. I wonder what their September numbers will look like when those become available soon.

But this got me thinking. So F9's A321 seats 230 total, whereas their A320/A32N seats 168 total. The outbound averaged 154 passengers and the inbound averaged 144. If they went with the A320/A32N, those averages would be 91% and 85%. There could be some factors as to why Frontier went with the A321 like operating costs or aircraft availability for example, but it appears they could've chosen a better aircraft for this route. So despite their montra of “adding ‘n slashing”, why couldn't they just have downgraded this route to a smaller plane rather than bagging it right away?

This intrigues me as to how WN or even AS would do on this route. Both of those passenger averages would easily sell out WN's 143-seat B73G and come very close to totaling AS's 159-seat B738. It just goes to show F9 was definitely not the right carrier for this route, coupled with the low frequency and their habit of constantly flipping routes.

Anyway, just pretty frustrating to see PIT gain a route it's wanted back for years and quickly lose it again for another indefinite period.
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:53 am

Came across some incredible fares on PIT-BOS for this Spring. B6 offering as low as $59 while DL is offering $58-88 across all five flights in economy. :eyepopping:
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:48 pm

Look for B6 flying A220s at PIT. They have a firm order for 60 of the A220-300 as a one-to-one replacement for the E190. First deliveries in 2020.
http://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-de ... a220-order
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:04 pm

And speaking of which, DL sent an A220 here this morning to do pattern work.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flight/DL9969
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SANFan
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:14 pm

Runway28L wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
I understand the desire for year-round service but PIT-SAN is around 95 PDEW during the winter. That’s tiny for a route that long. Southwest is even suspending the daily TPA-SAN flight during Jan and Feb and that market is 181 PDEW, so twice the size. Year-round PIT-SAN doesn’t seem feasible imo. If anything it should be summer seasonal.

For the heck of it, this is how the route did the first month it operated.
Frontier Airlines Aug 2018
PIT-DEN: 95% DEN-PIT: 95%
PIT-MCO: 80% MCO-PIT: 76%
PIT-SAN: 67% SAN-PIT: 63%

SAN did only operate five times (Mon/Fri schedule that started on 8/13), but those loads aren't spectacular and this was on the tail end of summer. I wonder what their September numbers will look like when those become available soon.
But this got me thinking. So F9's A321 seats 230 total, whereas their A320/A32N seats 168 total. The outbound averaged 154 passengers and the inbound averaged 144. If they went with the A320/A32N, those averages would be 91% and 85%. There could be some factors as to why Frontier went with the A321 like operating costs or aircraft availability for example, but it appears they could've chosen a better aircraft for this route. So despite their montra of “adding ‘n slashing”, why couldn't they just have downgraded this route to a smaller plane rather than bagging it right away?
This intrigues me as to how WN or even AS would do on this route. Both of those passenger averages would easily sell out WN's 143-seat B73G and come very close to totaling AS's 159-seat B738. It just goes to show F9 was definitely not the right carrier for this route, coupled with the low frequency and their habit of constantly flipping routes.

Anyway, just pretty frustrating to see PIT gain a route it's wanted back for years and quickly lose it again for another indefinite period.

I agree (and mentioned) that F9 was not the right carrier for the route; I assume the route is heavy business travel and service 2x weekly just doesn't cut it. (I have this problem with many of the routes that F9 flies.) This also seems to me like a route that should've been started in spring or summer rather than at the end of summer.

Bottom line is perhaps Frontier's surrender of the route is a good thing. Someone else now has the opportunity to jump in with daily service, perhaps seasonal but preferably year round. (BTW 'KTPA, I don't think almost 100 PDEW is "tiny" for off-season loads, long-haul or not, especially if peak-season loads are a good deal higher. But I have no problem if WN or AS would rather go with seasonal service to get into the market and get it started.

Thanks for your input folks. My fingers remain crossed.

bb
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:19 pm

The only thing I can think of is F9 didn't have any A320s available and didn't want to continue operating A321s at a loss. From the looks of those numbers it looks like they stimulated the PIT-SAN market somewhat. (avg PDEW of 123 vs 144 avg load for F9). Hopefully someone with the proper equipment will come in and operate the route. Whomever that may be, I too see it as a Summer seasonal destination.

Edit: did not see that the 144 avg load was for inbound flights; outbound to SAN averaged 154.
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:09 pm

Unfortunately PIT-SAN is one of those routes where there is nothing wrong with the market, yet it does not really fit well in any one airline's network. The best option is probably WN... but they are just not adding anything meaningful in markets such as PIT. I don't see AS picking this up but I'd love to be proven wrong. Perhaps NK as a dark horse? I didn't think F9 was a bad choice for the route and those LFs would have been very good with an A319/320. But as mentioned they chose the wrong a/c and wrong time of year.
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AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:06 pm

Sounds like the axe dropped on WW in PIT. Or they finally reached out to customers with an answer. My social feed is full of irate friends whose trips were all just canceled. Some with only one week's notice. They should have gotten far ahead of this, not waited to the last second.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:07 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
Look for B6 flying A220s at PIT. They have a firm order for 60 of the A220-300 as a one-to-one replacement for the E190. First deliveries in 2020.
http://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-de ... a220-order

5 to be delivered near the end of 2020, 4 in 2021, 8 in 2022, 19 in 2023, and 24 beyond that. Something tells me that we won't be seeing B6 send the A220 here for quite a while, as the delivery schedule is back-heavy. Plus PIT seems to be very popular in receiving the very last of an equipment type (see WN B733, US B734, DL DC-9, US B733, etc). I wouldn't be surprised if we see that with the B6 E190s.

I hope I'm wrong. I would be beyond ecstatic if we get one on BOS-PIT since I take that route every year.

flyPIT wrote:
Unfortunately PIT-SAN is one of those routes where there is nothing wrong with the market, yet it does not really fit well in any one airline's network. The best option is probably WN... but they are just not adding anything meaningful in markets such as PIT. I don't see AS picking this up but I'd love to be proven wrong. Perhaps NK as a dark horse? I didn't think F9 was a bad choice for the route and those LFs would have been very good with an A319/320. But as mentioned they chose the wrong a/c and wrong time of year.

I truly think it would be an easy add for WN if they weren't extremely conservative with PIT, but that's just how things are right now. It's worth noting that it took WN 11 years to have nonstops to all of it's bases from PIT, minus OAK of course. But it appears to be working for them. Only two routes have been completely dropped by WN since they entered PIT in 2005.

I still think WN can make it work as 6x weekly during peak and weekend-only in the low season. Another thing to consider is that WN is reportedly picking up gates at SAN. But is a PIT nonstop worth using on new available space?

AaronPGH wrote:
Sounds like the axe dropped on WW in PIT. Or they finally reached out to customers with an answer. My social feed is full of irate friends whose trips were all just canceled. Some with only one week's notice. They should have gotten far ahead of this, not waited to the last second.

Another example of the ULCC model and the concept of customer service refusing to mix.

At least WW didn't throw the entire city under the bus like they did with St. Louis?
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Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:30 pm

Another OneJet article today in the PG: https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1901060043

What is interesting in this article are the investors they interviewed. It seems many of the investors were promised cheap/free flights in exchange for their investment. What i noticed was that many of the investors had a need for themselves or employees to get to/from Richmond. This makes sense, as I had a few occasions that I needed to get to Richmond, but every OneJet flight was fully booked. Must have been a combination of regular bookings + these guaranteed ones that made these flights hard to get sometimes.

Does anyone think we will see another similar startup in the future? It seems there is demand to second tier cities, albeit with a small aircraft.
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:02 pm

After seeing both OneJet and PeoplExpress blow up in tremendous fashion, I’m pretty reluctant to see any startup come to PIT at all to be quite honest.

It’s amazing how many individuals and businesses have been royally screwed by this perennial disaster.
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Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:59 pm

Runway28L wrote:
After seeing both OneJet and PeoplExpress blow up in tremendous fashion, I’m pretty reluctant to see any startup come to PIT at all to be quite honest.

It’s amazing how many individuals and businesses have been royally screwed by this perennial disaster.


I wouldn't worry too much about the people that invested in OneJet. Judging by some of the names, I doubt losing their 150-250k investment will lose them any sleep. It's a tax write off anyway, plus, they got a number of free flights or very cheap charters. They got something for their money at the very least.

If there were a lot of common joe's that lost out in OneJet, that is another story, but I doubt the likes of some of those names will worry too much. Notice how the article already said how they don't expect to see anything back. Chances are they already wrote this off in their taxes for the year.
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:10 pm

Ron Burkle's B752 is currently en route to PIT from EWR.
https://fr24.com/B752/1f198291

Alaska appears to be downgrading PIT-SEA to a B738 for the entire month of January. The departure time has also been moved to 1820. Reverts back to a B738/B739 mix in February and goes back to the normal 1700 departure in March.

Cush wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
After seeing both OneJet and PeoplExpress blow up in tremendous fashion, I’m pretty reluctant to see any startup come to PIT at all to be quite honest.

It’s amazing how many individuals and businesses have been royally screwed by this perennial disaster.


I wouldn't worry too much about the people that invested in OneJet. Judging by some of the names, I doubt losing their 150-250k investment will lose them any sleep. It's a tax write off anyway, plus, they got a number of free flights or very cheap charters. They got something for their money at the very least.

If there were a lot of common joe's that lost out in OneJet, that is another story, but I doubt the likes of some of those names will worry too much. Notice how the article already said how they don't expect to see anything back. Chances are they already wrote this off in their taxes for the year.

It's definitely chump change for some, but they still lost the nonstop service they wanted regardless.
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JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:13 pm

G4 has stopped PIT-JAX from Jan 7th until Feb 15th. Anyone know what's up with that?
 
flybaby
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:05 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
G4 has stopped PIT-JAX from Jan 7th until Feb 15th. Anyone know what's up with that?


Probably just their seasonality change. They do that sometimes (especially now that they are short of aircraft due to their fleet transition to an all Airbus fleet, and at the nadir of air travel demand). Other destinations from JAX have had an even longer winter hiatus.
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:20 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
G4 has stopped PIT-JAX from Jan 7th until Feb 15th. Anyone know what's up with that?

Jacksonville gets kind of cold this time of year. Demand must drop off.
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masseybrown
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:36 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
G4 has stopped PIT-JAX from Jan 7th until Feb 15th. Anyone know what's up with that?


Think south Georgia, not north Florida. Jax has a real winter. One year of the two I lived there it snowed twice. It gets reliably warm, at least for golf purposes, by late February.
 
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knope2001
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:17 am

Cush wrote:
Another OneJet article today in the PG: https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1901060043

What is interesting in this article are the investors they interviewed. It seems many of the investors were promised cheap/free flights in exchange for their investment. What i noticed was that many of the investors had a need for themselves or employees to get to/from Richmond. This makes sense, as I had a few occasions that I needed to get to Richmond, but every OneJet flight was fully booked. Must have been a combination of regular bookings + these guaranteed ones that made these flights hard to get sometimes.

Does anyone think we will see another similar startup in the future? It seems there is demand to second tier cities, albeit with a small aircraft.


Thanks for posting that -- it explains why there were close to 30 round trips trips with the ER3 from PIT to Naples from February through June, best I can tell one or sometimes two per weekend. They averaged only about 5 or 6 people onboard (out of 30 seats on a plane designed for 37). It sound s like these were not revenue charters but were in fact perks for investors. Make one wonder how many of the dozen or so customers on the typical PBI flight actually paid a fare. One wonders what other flights on the RJ's and business jets were done at the direction of OneJet's leaders for their own personal benefit or those of investors.

The more things come to light the more the whole venture seems like a pet project for somebody not tethered by accountability. That Matt Mcguire's father is now repeatedly named in lawsuits only adds more details to the picture.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:10 pm

”PIT Offers Safe Haven for Diverted Aircraft”

https://blueskypit.com/2019/01/07/pit-o ... -aircraft/
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:36 pm

Sun Country adds 19 routes but not PIT among them.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 512134002/
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:01 pm

Runway28L wrote:

Alaska appears to be downgrading PIT-SEA to a B738 for the entire month of January. The departure time has also been moved to 1820. Reverts back to a B738/B739 mix in February and goes back to the normal 1700 departure in March.


Actually it appears to be an upgauge from a 737-700 that was being used for several weeks according to Flightaware:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA198/history
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:26 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Runway28L wrote:

Alaska appears to be downgrading PIT-SEA to a B738 for the entire month of January. The departure time has also been moved to 1820. Reverts back to a B738/B739 mix in February and goes back to the normal 1700 departure in March.


Actually it appears to be an upgauge from a 737-700 that was being used for several weeks according to Flightaware:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA198/history

FlightAware is incorrect. It was a B739 for most of December and the first week of January. I even photographed More to Love and a regular colors one on 1/1 and 1/5.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AS198


The B73G has only visited PIT a single time and it was a last-minute swap for a B738 for a day in November.
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:55 pm

Runway28L wrote:
FlightAware is incorrect. It was a B739 for most of December and the first week of January. I even photographed More to Love and a regular colors one on 1/1 and 1/5.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AS198


The B73G has only visited PIT a single time and it was a last-minute swap for a B738 for a day in November.

Ok thanks.


ConcourseZ wrote:
Sun Country adds 19 routes but not PIT among them.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 512134002/

I think Sun Country is probably our best hope for an eventual route to PDX and could even give SAN a try. I just don't see AS adding either anytime soon.
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Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:57 pm

I flew out of PIT today, and was surprised by how much has changed since early December, first thing I noticed was that the Hugo boss and the Armani stores were closed it looks like the Armani store was converted into the "Pittsburgh exchange" and the Hugo boss store is just empty. I also noticed that the left side of concourse D was a wall and heard a lot of drilling. It also seemed like a lot of stores were closed
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:44 pm

Gsasala wrote:
I flew out of PIT today, and was surprised by how much has changed since early December, first thing I noticed was that the Hugo boss and the Armani stores were closed it looks like the Armani store was converted into the "Pittsburgh exchange" and the Hugo boss store is just empty. I also noticed that the left side of concourse D was a wall and heard a lot of drilling. It also seemed like a lot of stores were closed

There is a ton of movement going on in the Airside terminal at the moment. Ten stores closed on 12/28 one closed on 12/30, and another two closed on 12/31 while six opened up on 12/29.

The work going on in Concourse D is gate space being converted into offices for the contractors. The Admirals Club is being completely redone upstairs and C56 is being converted into a new kidsport in order to make room for the future FIS installation at C51/53.

JetBlue is also supposed to be moving out of D79 within the next month or two, likely to Concourse B.
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PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:37 pm

Runway28L wrote:
FlightAware is incorrect. It was a B739 for most of December and the first week of January. I even photographed More to Love and a regular colors one on 1/1 and 1/5.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AS198

The B73G has only visited PIT a single time and it was a last-minute swap for a B738 for a day in November.


When I booked my flight to SEA, Kayak listed it as operated by a 734, but it was a 739

Also... apparently a new carrier is being announced today at 1:30pm. https://twitter.com/PITairport/status/1 ... 6303239169

Via? Sun Country?
 
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dabpit
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:39 pm

PITexpress wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
FlightAware is incorrect. It was a B739 for most of December and the first week of January. I even photographed More to Love and a regular colors one on 1/1 and 1/5.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AS198

The B73G has only visited PIT a single time and it was a last-minute swap for a B738 for a day in November.


When I booked my flight to SEA, Kayak listed it as operated by a 734, but it was a 739

Also... apparently a new carrier is being announced today at 1:30pm. https://twitter.com/PITairport/status/1 ... 6303239169

Via? Sun Country?


It is Via Air
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Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:45 pm

PITexpress wrote:

Also... apparently a new carrier is being announced today at 1:30pm. https://twitter.com/PITairport/status/1 ... 6303239169

Via? Sun Country?


That's disappointing. Via Air will be gone within 2-3 months. Their operation is so shaky. I feel like PIT would be better without them.
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PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:50 pm

Disappointed about the lack of the Sun Country add. Also saw that F9 is expanding in MCO, makes that drop seem even worse.
 
krod031
Posts: 120
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:14 pm

Flights loaded onto Via's website. 4x Weekly to BDL and 4x Weekly to MEM. MEM starts 6/25/19 and BDL starts 7/22/19. Doesn't look like there are any connecting/thru opportunities on these flights. 1st week of the flights are:

BDL:
Dep PIT 1339 / Arr BDL 1457
Dep BDL 1527 / Arr PIT 1651

MEM:
Dep PIT 1421 / Arrive MEM 1515
Dep MEM 1021 / Arrive PIT 1309

After 7/22:

MEM:
Dep MEM 1021 / Arrive PIT 1309
Dep PIT 1721 / Arrive MEM 1815

BDL: Same as above.


**Edit - BHM Is available from BHM-PIT, but not yet PIT-BHM. Assuming its still being uploaded. (Its also on the route map.) BHM Begins on 4/11/19.

Dep BHM 0906 / Arrive PIT 1136
Dep PIT 1206 / Arrive PIT 1254
Last edited by krod031 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PITexpress
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:27 pm

The article from the PG
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1901090107

Via Airlines will fly to Memphis, Tenn.; Hartford, Conn.; Austin, Texas, and Birmingham, Ala. from the airport in Findlay, according to Don Bowman, the carrier's director of planning and business development.

The Birmingham flight is scheduled to start in April, the Memphis and Austin flights in June, and the Hartford flight in July. Travelers seeking to get to Austin will fly into Memphis first but will not change planes.


While Via will start with four flights in Pittsburgh, it already is "finalizing plans" for another four to five destinations, he noted.

"We'd loved to see Pittsburgh grow into a focus city," he said.


Hopefully third times the charm?
 
DeltaRules
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:42 pm

How much did Christina pay for Via? :duck:
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:49 pm

All four are actually pretty sensible adds. Now hopefully they don't go up in flames like other carriers have. I'm going to keep my expectations very low this time.

Re PIT-AUS, that's quite a haul for an ERJ. Gonna be interesting how they stack up against G4 on that one.
Greetings from KPIT! Check out my photos here: http://www.airliners.net/search?user=45 ... teAccepted
 
Airventure737
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:53 pm

"Re PIT-AUS, that's quite a haul for an ERJ. Gonna be interesting how they stack up against G4 on that one."

The PIT-AUS flight stops in Memphis each direction.
 
ncflyer
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:38 pm

This one seems doomed from the start. These are business markets with less than daily service— c’mon!! I get less than daily to leisure markets on Frontier and Spirit, but not this…

I hope these flights fell in PITs lap, not courted…
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:56 pm

ncflyer wrote:
I hope these flights fell in PITs lap, not courted…

Doesn’t sound like it.

”The Allegheny County Airport Authority has scheduled a press conference this afternoon to introduce the carrier. Mr. Bowman said Via will be receiving incentives to start service from Pittsburgh but he did not know the amount.”

It better not be an outrageous amount, as this whole thing has question marks scribbled all over it.
Greetings from KPIT! Check out my photos here: http://www.airliners.net/search?user=45 ... teAccepted
 
ncflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:06 pm

Wow. It seems to me that PIT management measures success by destinations served and nothing else.
 
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dabpit
Posts: 771
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:14 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Wow. It seems to me that PIT management measures success by destinations served and nothing else.

Correct that is how success is measured there now.

On a separate note, there were a large number of managers/executives that were fired by the CEO and replaced with folks from outside the aviation industry around the beginning of December.
Carpe Diem
 
ncflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:38 pm

This is the exact problem with government/public agencies picking winners and losers. No accountability for OneJet…and worse apparently going to the well a second time. (I suppose WOW could be lumped in here too except at least in that case PIT was not alone in falling for it).
 
Cush
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:42 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:41 pm

ncflyer wrote:
This is the exact problem with government/public agencies picking winners and losers. No accountability for OneJet…and worse apparently going to the well a second time. (I suppose WOW could be lumped in here too except at least in that case PIT was not alone in falling for it).


OneJet seemed like a good bet. However, my opinion on that has recently changed with the news and details from each of the investors.

The ACAA cannot be blamed for WOW and what is currently going on with them. We were very lucky to land them as a carrier and I wish I could have flown them. Wow's problem was expanding way too fast for their own good. Had they taken a slower and more steady approach, i think they would still be around in some time.

I am a big supporter of the subsidies and understand that it is what is needed for an airport of our sizes to obtain some of these services that airlines are not willing to gamble on with all of their own money. However, I don't support the funds going to Via Air.

Just look at the negative comments on Via Air: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Airline_Rev ... ws-Via-Air

I had a friend fly on them last year from somewhere in West Virginia, and it was nothing short of horror stories and problems.

I don't mind providing subsidies to established carriers, and even carriers like OneJet who are basing their operations/jobs here, but, providing money to Via Air is the same thing as betting on the worst horse in a horse race. It's a total waste.

Really disappointing and upset to hear of the arrival of Via Air. Once again, they will take the money and leave PIT passengers hanging high and dry. It will put disdain in the minds of locals and hurt future chances more secure airlines have here....

Does anyone think Rivers Casino Sportsbook will have an Over/Under on when Via Air will fold? I say 3 months or less hahaha.
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
Cush
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:42 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:48 pm

One more thing....

Via Air has an F-rating from the Better Business Bureau. 71% of their TripAdvisor reviews are poor or terrible, compared to 27% for Allegiant, 26% for United, and 25% for Sun Country. (Southwest and Alaska come in at 6% and 7%, respectively.)
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
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knope2001
Posts: 2839
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:09 pm

Holy cow – wasn’t California Pacific available? Hopefully the “money” will be nothing more than the routine fee breaks and limited marketing boost which are open to anybody. Anything more than that is exceptionally questionable given the dismal track record of Via Air.

My own personal opinion is that there can be a role for subsidy to prime the pump, though it can be a tricky proposition with broader impacts. But every time it fails to work out well, especially when the operator turns out to be somewhere between flakey and downright fraudulent, it poisons the well.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:23 pm

I've seen Via's track record at BKG, i would never book them.

I feel sad, I want my MEM to get back flights to key cities but Austing via Via is a waste consider all the connecting AA and Southwest flight via Dallas and less than daily with Allegiant.

MEM-CVG-PIT would have made much more sense from a Memphis perspective.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:34 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
I've seen Via's track record at BKG, i would never book them.

I feel sad, I want my MEM to get back flights to key cities but Austing via Via is a waste consider all the connecting AA and Southwest flight via Dallas and less than daily with Allegiant.

MEM-CVG-PIT would have made much more sense from a Memphis perspective.


I wonder if Delta could be talked into either MEM-CVG-PIT, MEM-RDU-PIT, or MEM-IND-PIT.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 3465
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:47 pm

There is definitely a market for these flights, but from an airline with the reputation of ViaAir.....probably not. They might have the worst reputation of any current US carrier.

I hope there weren't any extra incentives from PIT, especially after everything that just happened with OneJet you would have thought PIT would have learned its lesson.
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
Flaps
Posts: 1488
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:38 pm

Please correct me if I am wrong but I seem to recall that the PIT CEO's compensation is partly based on destinations served. If correct that would certainly explain the pursuit of shaky projects like Southern, OneJet and Via.. Southern seems to be working reasonably well but Via's prospects are at least as bad if not worse than OneJet's.
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 1266
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:58 pm

"Via arrives with big intentions. It hopes to make Pittsburgh — its 19th destination — a focus city, with plans to add four to five more flights in the future."
I'm curious about the 4-5 additional flights.

Via also interlines with AA.


knope2001 wrote:
Hopefully the “money” will be nothing more than the routine fee breaks and limited marketing boost which are open to anybody. Anything more than that is exceptionally questionable given the dismal track record of Via Air.

From the P-G article:
"Via will receive incentives from the airport authority but they are nowhere near the $1 million paid to OneJet. Ms. Cassotis said they are standard marketing incentives of “modest amount” — the exact number is still being finalized — available to any carrier starting new service.

The airline also will receive a one-year waiver of landing fees, another standard incentive offered by the airport in exchange for new service.
"
So it appears to be the standard marketing support and waived landing fees for a year.
FLYi

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