Blerg wrote:

Limiting foreign airlines is one thing but why would the Indian government limit IndiGo's access to Turkey? Why do they care if TK adds more flights as long as IndiGo does as the same. I am sure after DEL more cities will be added.

To avoid trojan horses. Keep in mind there are several state Chief Ministers asking GoI to allow Emirates/FlyDubai to operate to their cities. The goal of the foreign carriers is to get more allocations one way or the other.

Nothing stopping 6E from starting two new routes to IST without TK getting more BASAs, and place codes on 20+ TK destinations as PR claims.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

There is no such rule that the GOI would automatically grant new frequencies when 80% are used - see DXB. There is no need for the GOI tho grant Turkey more flights since there is no O&D. Indigo flying 2 A321 is already a joke compared to TK’s 2 X 77W. Indigo will eventually be able to fly to EU nonstop without the need of IST. The fact that Indigo isn’t targeting AMD and ATQ is rather shocking to me given people in those cites make it seem like they are high yielding business markets that deserve long haul flights. That said, I hope the LCCs get their act together (and cities like AMD continue to grow) to start these flights.

DXB I believe the rights haven't been expanded because of lobbying. The govt in fact consulted Indian airlines prior to the latest round of talks with UAE. Nothing came out of it though

dtw2hyd wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Limiting foreign airlines is one thing but why would the Indian government limit IndiGo's access to Turkey? Why do they care if TK adds more flights as long as IndiGo does as the same. I am sure after DEL more cities will be added.

To avoid trojan horses. Keep in mind there are several state Chief Ministers asking GoI to allow Emirates/FlyDubai to operate to their cities. The goal of the foreign carriers is to get more allocations one way or the other.

Nothing stopping 6E from starting two new routes to IST without TK getting more BASAs, and place codes on 20+ TK destinations as PR claims.

That I understand but I am talking about what happens once IndiGo maxes out its rights. Would the Indian government take forever to expand the bilateral? Would giving each another two daily flights be really that bad?

Policy short-sightedness, plain and simple. The bureaucracy cannot think beyond 5 or 6 cities

Blerg wrote:

That I understand but I am talking about what happens once IndiGo maxes out its rights. Would the Indian government take forever to expand the bilateral? Would giving each another two daily flights be really that bad?

Politically, the relations between Indian and Dubai (add even Qatar, Singapore) is much better than India and Turkey. But despite that, Dubai ( and Doha, Singapore) has not been granted more bilateral seats despite even the Indian side having it fully exhausted, all because the local Indian carriers do not want EK to get more access to India. So obviously, TK or Istanbul has no chance for more seat entitlements, considering political relations are nil between the two nations. Istanbul favours India's no.1 enemy. IndiGo can make do with whatevers available and exhaust it, but that's again not reason enough to increase it like mentioned above.

India's newest regional commuter airline will take to the skies on 5tb Feb 2019, flying to Hubballi, Tirupati and Belgavi, from its base in Bengaluru. The flights to Belgavi are effective 5th February 2019. Bookings open on their website. The airline will utilize its sole aircraft – an Embraer E-145 registered VT-GSC for the operations.



Wonder how many regional airlines have come and gone in the south until now.

The odds of this airline surviving the year are pretty low

Blerg wrote:

...
That I understand but I am talking about what happens once IndiGo maxes out its rights. Would the Indian government take forever to expand the bilateral? Would giving each another two daily flights be really that bad?

6E's IST mission will test human endurance. If humans can survive on complimentary tap water without anyone going into glycemic shock for eight hours because they couldn't BoB for any reason and DPRK agents won't give food without foreign currency/international credit card, I am sure GoI will give a couple of more stations to Turkey.

If medics have to meet the plane at landing, even Turkey will tell TK to get out this relationship.

We have big plans, we need openskies is a no-no.

avier wrote:

India's newest regional commuter airline will take to the skies on 5tb Feb 2019, flying to Hubballi, Tirupati and Belgavi, from its base in Bengaluru. The flights to Belgavi are effective 5th February 2019. Bookings open on their website. The airline will utilize its sole aircraft – an Embraer E-145 registered VT-GSC for the operations.



Wonder how many regional airlines have come and gone in the south until now.

Correction **They start 25th Jan 2019

dtw2hyd wrote:

Blerg wrote:

...
That I understand but I am talking about what happens once IndiGo maxes out its rights. Would the Indian government take forever to expand the bilateral? Would giving each another two daily flights be really that bad?

6E's IST mission will test human endurance. If humans can survive on complimentary tap water without anyone going into glycemic shock for eight hours because they couldn't BoB for any reason and DPRK agents won't give food without foreign currency/international credit card, I am sure GoI will give a couple of more stations to Turkey.

If medics have to meet the plane at landing, even Turkey will tell TK to get out this relationship.

We have big plans, we need openskies is a no-no.

Are you saying IndiGo only accepts Rupees on international flights and Indian credit cards?

Blerg wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Blerg wrote:

...
That I understand but I am talking about what happens once IndiGo maxes out its rights. Would the Indian government take forever to expand the bilateral? Would giving each another two daily flights be really that bad?

6E's IST mission will test human endurance. If humans can survive on complimentary tap water without anyone going into glycemic shock for eight hours because they couldn't BoB for any reason and DPRK agents won't give food without foreign currency/international credit card, I am sure GoI will give a couple of more stations to Turkey.

If medics have to meet the plane at landing, even Turkey will tell TK to get out this relationship.

We have big plans, we need openskies is a no-no.

Are you saying IndiGo only accepts Rupees on international flights and Indian credit cards?

Nope. It's the absolute reverse and that's what he meant. Indigo doesn't accept INR for BoB purchase in int'l flights. Anyone who doesn't have this knowledge and boards their IST flights will have to stay hungry throughout the flight.

binayak wrote:

Blerg wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

6E's IST mission will test human endurance. If humans can survive on complimentary tap water without anyone going into glycemic shock for eight hours because they couldn't BoB for any reason and DPRK agents won't give food without foreign currency/international credit card, I am sure GoI will give a couple of more stations to Turkey.

If medics have to meet the plane at landing, even Turkey will tell TK to get out this relationship.

We have big plans, we need openskies is a no-no.

Are you saying IndiGo only accepts Rupees on international flights and Indian credit cards?

Nope. It's the absolute reverse and that's what he meant. Indigo doesn't accept INR for BoB purchase in int'l flights. Anyone who doesn't have this knowledge and boards their IST flights will have to stay hungry throughout the flight.

Interesting, I didn't know that. So what do they accept if not INR? As in they don't accept just Rupees or any hard currency?

Blerg wrote:

Interesting, I didn't know that. So what do they accept if not INR? As in they don't accept just Rupees or any hard currency?

AFAIK They accept US $ or the currency of the destination country for BoB purchase in int'l flights

dtw2hyd wrote:

6E's IST mission will test human endurance. If humans can survive on complimentary tap water without anyone going into glycemic shock for eight hours because they couldn't BoB for any reason and DPRK agents won't give food without foreign currency/international credit card, I am sure GoI will give a couple of more stations to Turkey.

If medics have to meet the plane at landing, even Turkey will tell TK to get out this relationship.

We have big plans, we need openskies is a no-no.

Why will DEL-IST take 8 hours?

unrave wrote:

Policy short-sightedness, plain and simple. The bureaucracy cannot think beyond 5 or 6 cities

Huh? It is airlines that focus on the same cities. There is plenty of seats available for airlines to start intl ops from AMD, ATQ, CCU etc, but they don’t. Also these cities don’t really need more connectivity to ME or cities like IST or Central Asia. They want connectivity to either global business centers or cities they actually want to travel to (or will bring tourists in). It is only on Anet that people celebrate a LCC connecting their city to KUL or SHJ. The only way Jet or KL would ever start say HYD/AMD-AMS would be if enough high yield demand is available for the flight. If the likes of TK or Kuwait super undercut a market that already has low premium demand...no flights.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Huh? It is airlines that focus on the same cities. There is plenty of seats available for airlines to start intl ops from AMD, ATQ, CCU etc, but they don’t. Also these cities don’t really need more connectivity to ME or cities like IST or Central Asia. They want connectivity to either global business centers or cities they actually want to travel to (or will bring tourists in). It is only on Anet that people celebrate a LCC connecting their city to KUL or SHJ. The only way Jet or KL would ever start say HYD/AMD-AMS would be if enough high yield demand is available for the flight. If the likes of TK or Kuwait super undercut a market that already has low premium demand...no flights.

A tier 2 Indian city's order of importance for air connectivity is regional hub - DEL/BOM - Gulf. They need both - connectivity to Gulf/SEA and global hubs. A flight from flyDubai to a small Indian airport will open the world to them. Given the precarious state of Indian FSC the super connector airlines still remain the best bet for international connectivity

unrave wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

6E's IST mission will test human endurance. If humans can survive on complimentary tap water without anyone going into glycemic shock for eight hours because they couldn't BoB for any reason and DPRK agents won't give food without foreign currency/international credit card, I am sure GoI will give a couple of more stations to Turkey.

If medics have to meet the plane at landing, even Turkey will tell TK to get out this relationship.

We have big plans, we need openskies is a no-no.

Why will DEL-IST take 8 hours?

TK takes 7h 5m on 77W . Considering that the a321n is slower, 6E can very well take up to 8 hrs.
BOM IST will be even longer.
Still I don't understand, how will this partnership work if both operate parallel flights. They'll be in a huge competitive disadvantage.
I'd taken BOM IST on TK in Y in 2010 for a trip to Turkey . It was an a332 then . The seats, food, IFE were fantastic. The flight was half empty so many passengers used the middle four seats in Y as a railway berth!!

binayak wrote:

Blerg wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

6E's IST mission will test human endurance. If humans can survive on complimentary tap water without anyone going into glycemic shock for eight hours because they couldn't BoB for any reason and DPRK agents won't give food without foreign currency/international credit card, I am sure GoI will give a couple of more stations to Turkey.

If medics have to meet the plane at landing, even Turkey will tell TK to get out this relationship.

We have big plans, we need openskies is a no-no.

Are you saying IndiGo only accepts Rupees on international flights and Indian credit cards?

Nope. It's the absolute reverse and that's what he meant. Indigo doesn't accept INR for BoB purchase in int'l flights. Anyone who doesn't have this knowledge and boards their IST flights will have to stay hungry throughout the flight.

Apparently there is a rule (Foreign Exchange Management Act) prohibiting all Indian airlines from accepting INR on international flights, yet only 6E abides by it. Why?

avier wrote:

India's newest regional commuter airline will take to the skies on 5tb Feb 2019, flying to Hubballi, Tirupati and Belgavi, from its base in Bengaluru. The flights to Belgavi are effective 5th February 2019. Bookings open on their website. The airline will utilize its sole aircraft – an Embraer E-145 registered VT-GSC for the operations.

Wonder how many regional airlines have come and gone in the south until now.

Air Costa, Air Pegasus, Air Carnival (which was limited to TN): they were launched in 2014–15 and wound up by 2017. The original South-based regional airline, of course, was Paramount Airways. It, and Air Costa, drove home the perception that the Embraer E-Jet is bound to bring an Indian airline to its doom.

Yet Trujet continues to carry on. Why has it been the only success in the South?

binayak wrote:

TK takes 7h 5m on 77W . Considering that the a321n is slower, 6E can very well take up to 8 hrs.
BOM IST will be even longer.
Still I don't understand, how will this partnership work if both operate parallel flights. They'll be in a huge competitive disadvantage.
I'd taken BOM IST on TK in Y in 2010 for a trip to Turkey . It was an a332 then . The seats, food, IFE were fantastic. The flight was half empty so many passengers used the middle four seats in Y as a railway berth!!

IndiGo is banking on connecting traffic at DEL to feed its flights. There is a good chance that these IST flights will go the way of their DEL-SIN flights

VTCIE wrote:

Apparently there is a rule (Foreign Exchange Management Act) prohibiting all Indian airlines from accepting INR on international flights, yet only 6E abides by it. Why?

G8 must be following it too because the last time I flew them , I saw in their BoB menu , the prices of the wines were written in $ (my flight was domestic but still the menu contained wine which was obviously only for int'l)

Okay, time to separate actual facts from concocted fiction.

The law limits the import of foreign currency to Indian soil to the extent of Rs. 25,000. Even this was only recently revised from the earlier limit of Rs 10,000. See the relevant RBI notification: https://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/Notifica ... 268&Mode=0

IndiGo has requested this limit to be raised to Rs. 1,50,000. There is however no limit on the amount of foreign currency that can be imported to India. IndiGo (and Go Air) accept Indian bank issued credit/debit cards too so the chances of one dying out of hunger on an overseas flight on IndiGo is very very remote.

There are a lot of potential issues with spending 7+ hours in a cramped LCC seat but the concern that passengers will suffer a hungry death is hilarious.

IndiGo's A321neo is on its maiden commercial flight

unrave wrote:

IndiGo's A321neo is on its maiden commercial flight

6E joins the ranks of VY, NK, JQ and 5J. Bravo! I am, of course, not talking about the onboard product, but of LCCs ordering the A321 to increase their revenue and stretch their wings to further places.

VTCIE wrote:

Yet Trujet continues to carry on. Why has it been the only success in the South?

Good political connections with the state govt. I presume.

They got a few UDAN allocations. Perhaps they are surviving on them

avier wrote:

VTCIE wrote:

Yet Trujet continues to carry on. Why has it been the only success in the South?

Good political connections with the state govt. I presume.

That is true. I have heard they are making losses but the owners have extremely deep pockets and this is just a fun project for them.

The owners are the Chiranjeevi family, the most powerful people of the Telugu family industry. They can afford to lose a few hundred crore on an airline for a few years.

So what's preventing these regional startups from making it? State taxes? Too much competition?

Small scale of operations and inability to compete with the bigger carriers. Unlike in the US or Australia the small regional carriers compete for the passengers as that of the bigger carriers.

I always thought how will it be if 9W and Trujet code share with each other. Jet can just sell off all their ATRs (I'm sure the big bully will be more than happy to take them )and let Trujet operate the regional sectors with them placing their 9W code on those routes. This way jet will be able to get regional traffic without having to send its own planes there.

unrave wrote:

Okay, time to separate actual facts from concocted fiction.

The law limits the import of foreign currency to Indian soil to the extent of Rs. 25,000. Even this was only recently revised from the earlier limit of Rs 10,000. See the relevant RBI notification: https://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/Notifica ... 268&Mode=0

IndiGo has requested this limit to be raised to Rs. 1,50,000. There is however no limit on the amount of foreign currency that can be imported to India. IndiGo (and Go Air) accept Indian bank issued credit/debit cards too so the chances of one dying out of hunger on an overseas flight on IndiGo is very very remote.

There are a lot of potential issues with spending 7+ hours in a cramped LCC seat but the concern that passengers will suffer a hungry death is hilarious.

Thanks for clearing it up, even i was wondering when we can shop on any foreign website in USD using our credit/debit cards then why this hysteria, one or two people on these Indian threads are massive purveyors of fake news and propaganda and they don't even stay in India. Good to see resident Indians here calling out BS and showing facts to all.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

unrave wrote:

Policy short-sightedness, plain and simple. The bureaucracy cannot think beyond 5 or 6 cities

Huh? It is airlines that focus on the same cities. There is plenty of seats available for airlines to start intl ops from AMD, ATQ, CCU etc, but they don’t. Also these cities don’t really need more connectivity to ME or cities like IST or Central Asia. They want connectivity to either global business centers or cities they actually want to travel to (or will bring tourists in). It is only on Anet that people celebrate a LCC connecting their city to KUL or SHJ. The only way Jet or KL would ever start say HYD/AMD-AMS would be if enough high yield demand is available for the flight. If the likes of TK or Kuwait super undercut a market that already has low premium demand...no flights.

None of the ME airlines (except EY) or TK have entitlements to any city that they havent used. TK might be interested in cities like AMD and ATQ if they are allowed?

There has to be a typo in this post. I can’t reconcile the two statements below.

unrave wrote:

The law limits the import of foreign currency to Indian soil to the extent of Rs. 25,000.

There is however no limit on the amount of foreign currency that can be imported to India.

Maybe the top one should be: The law limits the export and re-import of Indian currency to Indian soil to the extent of Rs. 25,000?

DSFTEBMNZ wrote:

There has to be a typo in this post. I can’t reconcile the two statements below.

unrave wrote:

The law limits the import of foreign currency to Indian soil to the extent of Rs. 25,000.

There is however no limit on the amount of foreign currency that can be imported to India.

Maybe the top one should be: The law limits the export and re-import of Indian currency to Indian soil to the extent of Rs. 25,000?

Yeah sorry about that. You are correct

bostrv wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

unrave wrote:

Policy short-sightedness, plain and simple. The bureaucracy cannot think beyond 5 or 6 cities

Huh? It is airlines that focus on the same cities. There is plenty of seats available for airlines to start intl ops from AMD, ATQ, CCU etc, but they don’t. Also these cities don’t really need more connectivity to ME or cities like IST or Central Asia. They want connectivity to either global business centers or cities they actually want to travel to (or will bring tourists in). It is only on Anet that people celebrate a LCC connecting their city to KUL or SHJ. The only way Jet or KL would ever start say HYD/AMD-AMS would be if enough high yield demand is available for the flight. If the likes of TK or Kuwait super undercut a market that already has low premium demand...no flights.

None of the ME airlines (except EY) or TK have entitlements to any city that they havent used. TK might be interested in cities like AMD and ATQ if they are allowed?

I meant for Indian carriers (this was in response to 6E needing the Turkish bilateral to be expanded so they can run more flights to IST). My point was 6E can start international flights from AMD/ATQ/CCU etc to tons of locations (other than DXB) but they don’t. The GOI needs to expand bilaterals that are mutually beneficial. So when 9W needs the Netherlands bilateral expanded, I would be all for it because both KLM and 9W are benefiting from the relationship (in a very meaningful way). The GOI has done a great job of fostering connecting most major cities to at least the ME and SE Asia. So cities have connectivity to the world. They also solved the seat shortage from the major cities during peak periods (Christmas is still expensive but it is super peak). Now the GOI needs to help Indian airlines - fares need to go up and Indian airlines need higher fares on international routes to subsidize domestic growth (notice I am emphasizing cheaper domestic fares over international as the GOI should focus more on domestic connectivity to help connect the nation both business and culturally). Finally nonstop connectivity from India to the world is a joke and embarrassingly low. India needs a hub desperately (much more than a few more cities connected to DXB).

@Caliguy

About your comment on the Jet thread, GoI is already looking into the matter.

The potential move would help keep a tab on the increasing competition and the monopolistic growth of the airlines, the report said.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/airli ... 948901.htm

dtw2hyd wrote:

@Caliguy

About your comment on the Jet thread, GoI is already looking into the matter.

The potential move would help keep a tab on the increasing competition and the monopolistic growth of the airlines, the report said.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/airli ... 948901.htm

WOW! This is huge (if it happens)! Very surprised!

Ideally, the govt should keep out of business in a free market. But hey this is India!

BawliBooch wrote:

WOW! This is huge (if it happens)! Very surprised!

Ideally, the govt should keep out of business in a free market. But hey this is India!

With that kind of monopoly anti-trust laws would kick-in in any country.

I believe DGCA after a three-hour review (of 99acres) mandated PW1100 weekly inspection of 3rd stage LPT blade. Someone said inspections take time and loss of revenue. With PW1100 quality + 6E's arrogance + Prabhu's luck, I think weekly inspections is a good thing.

http://dgca.nic.in/public_notice/PN-A32 ... Jan%202019).pdf

India doesn't have an Amreekan style "anti-trust" law. Market dominance is not illegal in India.

And hence the likes of Reliance thrive in India with the absence of antitrust laws.

dtw2hyd wrote:

With that kind of monopoly anti-trust laws would kick-in in any country.

I believe DGCA after a three-hour review (of 99acres) mandated PW1100 weekly inspection of 3rd stage LPT blade. Someone said inspections take time and loss of revenue. With PW1100 quality + 6E's arrogance + Prabhu's luck, I think weekly inspections is a good thing.

http://dgca.nic.in/public_notice/PN-A32 ... Jan%202019).pdf

Agree. I think India needs Western style anti-trust and competition laws especially now that we are dealing with a company like Indigo indulging in textbook predatory behavior. Indigo enters a market, dumps capacity at below price to push out competition and then jacks up prices when the competition is forced to exit the market. This is certainly not benefitting the customer!

When British Airways bought out Bmed, they were required to give up slots in LHR. BOM, DEL and BLR certainly need these kind of measures to prevent domination by one carrier.

Wrt engine issue, I am surprised it has taken the DGCA this long to act! Why is Indigo allowed to put passenger lives at risk by continuing to fly aircraft with proven safety issues? Indigo's deals with the engine maker protect the airline from financial implications of the engine issues. But it certainly puts passengers at risk. Highly unethical!

If this was Air India/Indian Airlines, the aircraft would have been grounded till the issues were rectified. This has happened before with Indian Airlines A320 back in 1990.

Anyway, it's good to see the Govt agencies take action however limited. A complete ground of PW powered A320's for rigorous inspection would have been better. But this weekly inspection rule is a step in the right direction.

It will be tragic if lives are lost because of unethical practices of an allegedly "well run airlines"! "Well run" extends beyond just the bottom line.

It is time for Eminent IntellectualsTM of India to file a joint PIL against the UNETHICAL practice of an airline flying its planes. I am sure Prashant Bhushan would be available to flight the case on their behalf.

Viman wrote:

massive purveyors of fake news and propaganda and they don't even stay in India.

That is the bane of India related discussion forums across the internet. Thankfully with the launch of Jio and the consequent data revolution actual RESIDENT Indians have found their voices online. Aviation is a niche interest worldwide and especially so in a country where only a tiny sliver of the population can afford air travel, so it will be sometime before Anet sees the same influx of actual Indian uses. But even here the proportion of resident Indian users has improved considerably in the last 2-3 years.

In a facepalm to Indian media outlets, Ministry of Civil Aviation(India) wrote a memo claiming Indian journalists "lack perspective of various aviation issues" and want to educate them.

Courtesy Tarun Shukla on Twitter
https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun?ref_sr ... r%5Eauthor

Air India Express to begin Kannur-Muscat from 2nd April 2019

IX 0713 | CNN 1735 MCT 1950 | Eff date 02-Apr-19
IX 0714 | MCT 2050 CNN 0205 | Eff date 02-Apr-19

Effective date : 2nd April 2019
Frequency 3 times a week | 2, 5, 7 (i.e. - Tue, Fri, Sun)
Bookings to begin soon

SVJ77W wrote:

Air India Express to begin Kannur-Muscat from 2nd April 2019

IX 0713 | CNN 1735 MCT 1950 | Eff date 02-Apr-19
IX 0714 | MCT 2050 CNN 0205 | Eff date 02-Apr-19

Effective date : 2nd April 2019
Frequency 3 times a week | 2, 5, 7 (i.e. - Tue, Fri, Sun)
Bookings to begin soon

How many destinations are served by AIX from Kannur?

IndiGo celebrated the launch of A321neo operations with a commemorative cake

Source: Official social media

unrave wrote:

SVJ77W wrote:

Air India Express to begin Kannur-Muscat from 2nd April 2019
How many destinations are served by AIX from Kannur?

Currently they fly to Abu Dhabi, Sharjah, Riyadh and Doha. Muscat will be the 5th destination.

The irony they start Muscat after Go Air began bookings last week.

Another neo engine failure:
VT-ITQ A320neo suffers engine soon after take off from Lucknow. Aircraft grounded.

PW A320neos are not flying ETOPS anytime soon.