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SleeplessInZh
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:06 am

Devilfish, we all need an 'el tocuyo' airline awards. Hahaha
 
Philippine747
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:54 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:38 pm

PR77W wrote:
I also want to added that PAL want a streamline fleet with GAP to reduced training and maintenance cost, (Economic of scale as they say), Additionally If PAL and GAP have a common fleet they can inter-changed aircraft like PAL transferring some of its A320 And A321 to GAP or possibly GAP return excess A320 or A321 back to PAL. :scratchchin:

when it comes to hub operations I think its best to base most of PAL and GAP A321 at MNL, while the A320 will operate routes that that can't support the A321 either demand or infrastructure. The remainder of the PAL A320 and some A321 can be base at secondary hubs like CEB or CRK.

Maybe PAL should introduce an Economy Plus seating optiont (extra-legroom seats), similar to what US carriers offer. IMHO PAL should make Premium Economy {W} and Extra-legroom Economy {Y+} separate brands to reduced confusion between W and Y+.
Also curious why PAL A321neo don't have Y+ like on the A321ceo?

Was only a suggestion I wasn't serious and skeptical PAL will downgraded its Recliner style business class to Eurobusiness. If they ever do it however won't be surprised some of PAL high flyers take there business to 5J or Z2 on domestic flights. :banghead:


The Economy Plus (Y+) you propose is actually implemented on international A320/A321 flights opb Mainline, with rows 21-23 sold as Choice Seats. For the A321s, the premium economy cabin on domestic flights are their own separate product.

And yes, I guarantee that a downgrade to Eurobusiness would turn off a lot of premium travelers. I know one frequent Business traveler who scorns the -83XX fleet :lol:
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:24 am

So has there been any news on construction on Sangley? As in the current airbase and not the planned new airport. There were reports recently that they were going to build a turboprop terminal there, has construction already began?
 
J343
Posts: 198
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:28 am

Philippine747 wrote:
The -86XX J seats are being sold as Business Class on Clark-Mindanao. Unsure about the regional hops out of Cebu. Also, only the NextGens (-59XX) have Premium Economy, while the classic Q400s are all Y.

This report suggests PR is streamlining their cabin offerings.....

https://business.inquirer.net/265808/pa ... USgFJXed.1

Are they ever gonna stop bragging about their 4 star status? KE and EK are both 4 star airlines and I don't ever see them hyping about their Skytrax rating. Not even the 5 star airlines do- with the exception of QR. I mean it's just getting old now.

Also the 'Heart of the Filipino' campaign with the heart on chest is probably the most cringe worthy greeting when you board their flight. I remember cringing so much when I boarded my PR flight from LHR to MNL when they greeted passengers with the hand in heart gesture and the safety demonstration.
 
LurveBus
Posts: 299
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:35 am

J343 wrote:
Philippine747 wrote:
The -86XX J seats are being sold as Business Class on Clark-Mindanao. Unsure about the regional hops out of Cebu. Also, only the NextGens (-59XX) have Premium Economy, while the classic Q400s are all Y.

This report suggests PR is streamlining their cabin offerings.....

https://business.inquirer.net/265808/pa ... USgFJXed.1

Are they ever gonna stop bragging about their 4 star status? KE and EK are both 4 star airlines and I don't ever see them hyping about their Skytrax rating. Not even the 5 star airlines do- with the exception of QR. I mean it's just getting old now.

Also the 'Heart of the Filipino' campaign with the heart on chest is probably the most cringe worthy greeting when you board their flight. I remember cringing so much when I boarded my PR flight from LHR to MNL when they greeted passengers with the hand in heart gesture and the safety demonstration.


Given PAL’s reputation over the decades, saying that they’re a 4-star airline now is kinda necessary.
 
J343
Posts: 198
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:54 am

LurveBus wrote:
J343 wrote:
Philippine747 wrote:
The -86XX J seats are being sold as Business Class on Clark-Mindanao. Unsure about the regional hops out of Cebu. Also, only the NextGens (-59XX) have Premium Economy, while the classic Q400s are all Y.

This report suggests PR is streamlining their cabin offerings.....

https://business.inquirer.net/265808/pa ... USgFJXed.1

Are they ever gonna stop bragging about their 4 star status? KE and EK are both 4 star airlines and I don't ever see them hyping about their Skytrax rating. Not even the 5 star airlines do- with the exception of QR. I mean it's just getting old now.

Also the 'Heart of the Filipino' campaign with the heart on chest is probably the most cringe worthy greeting when you board their flight. I remember cringing so much when I boarded my PR flight from LHR to MNL when they greeted passengers with the hand in heart gesture and the safety demonstration.


Given PAL’s reputation over the decades, saying that they’re a 4-star airline now is kinda necessary.


I have flown PAL in the late-90s to N.America when I was about 4 or 5 and as a family, we did it 2-3 times a year. I don't ever remember their service being that bad apart from their constant delays. I am in no way bashing PAL for being OTT with their 4 star rating.
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:56 am

Thats their signature greeting.other airlines like thai or garuda are praying when greeting you.
Why can't pal have its own thing?!
And about the 4 stars, let them be.they can do whatever they want with the 4 stars.
 
J343
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:01 pm

SleeplessInZh wrote:
Thats their signature greeting.other airlines like thai or garuda are praying when greeting you.
Why can't pal have its own thing?!
And about the 4 stars, let them be.they can do whatever they want with the 4 stars.


Jesus no need to be tetchy about it. Like I said, this is not an attack on PR. I was simply saying it makes me cringe. And with regards to their rating, there are airlines with far worse service compared to PR, I just think they are going OTT with their rating. With the exception of Qatar Airways, I don't see any of the 5 star airlines going all hyped. There's not one social media post by PR that does not mention 4 stars.

Yes PR can do whatever they want to be or whoever they want to be, I am entitled to my own opinion.
 
SleeplessInZh
Posts: 295
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:53 pm

Yes,and i didn't say that your attacking pal.
The "4 stars" thing is i think,perhaps, to market themselves against rival cebupacific,as they always say: ..."your 4star national carrier".
 
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TheDailyAloy
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:23 pm

Although I'm beginning to question how well they deserve that 4-star rating now, what with that stupid new policy that ALL Y aisle seats regardless of fare class, domestic or international, now carry extra charges and it's only at the airport you can try and get them. So how can my family and I guarantee we can sit together for our flight to BKK this October?

The dark humorist in me says this is PR's alternative to Basic Economy in the US. At least SQ lets you choose even aisle seats upon online check-in, even with a promotional fare.

Though I do like it, the Heart of the Filipino. We're stereotyped, for better or for worse, as being warm and accommodating. This branding's working in our favor, I guess.
Live your Truly Best Life.

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SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:32 pm

Thats one ridiculous idea of pal.i knew it already before and i also talked about that in this forum
You may go to pals fb page,and inform them early,by sending them a message.
 
J343
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:33 am

TheDailyAloy wrote:
Although I'm beginning to question how well they deserve that 4-star rating now, what with that stupid new policy that ALL Y aisle seats regardless of fare class, domestic or international, now carry extra charges and it's only at the airport you can try and get them. So how can my family and I guarantee we can sit together for our flight to BKK this October?

The dark humorist in me says this is PR's alternative to Basic Economy in the US. At least SQ lets you choose even aisle seats upon online check-in, even with a promotional fare.

Though I do like it, the Heart of the Filipino. We're stereotyped, for better or for worse, as being warm and accommodating. This branding's working in our favor, I guess.


It does sound like a stupid idea to pay for aisle seats. I havent flown an airline that charges for aisle seats so far (obviously except paying for seats in advance).

Also, with regards to ratings, it does make me wonder how BR, OZ and NH got their 5 star rating.

BR- introduced 10 abreats Y and reduced seat pitch from 33 to 31 AFTER getting 5 stars
OZ- overrated af. KE has a better product.
NH- 10 abreast on most B77W, 16in width, 31 pitch. 9 abreast on their B788 with 31 pitch. JL has a more superior product.

The only 5 star airlines in my opinion who really deserve it are SQ, CX, QR. After flying with Qantas several times, I do think they deserve an extra star. And LH? Dont even get me started.
 
J343
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:35 am

SleeplessInZh wrote:
Yes,and i didn't say that your attacking pal.
The "4 stars" thing is i think,perhaps, to market themselves against rival cebupacific,as they always say: ..."your 4star national carrier".


PR and 5J should never be compared. 5J is a low cost carrier, PR is a full service carrier. Saying that is just like comparing British Airways against Easyjet. PR made a dumb strategy by being a hybrid carrier with a high density A330.
 
PR77W
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:16 am

SMC more specificlly RSA should be probably blame for that debacle when SMC had stakes in PAL between 2012-2014, also made RSA CEO of PAL for that time period, board of directors (BOD), should also share some of the blame for approving the idea.
Last edited by PR77W on Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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idp5601
Posts: 189
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:31 am

J343 wrote:
LurveBus wrote:
J343 wrote:

This report suggests PR is streamlining their cabin offerings.....

https://business.inquirer.net/265808/pa ... USgFJXed.1

Are they ever gonna stop bragging about their 4 star status? KE and EK are both 4 star airlines and I don't ever see them hyping about their Skytrax rating. Not even the 5 star airlines do- with the exception of QR. I mean it's just getting old now.

Also the 'Heart of the Filipino' campaign with the heart on chest is probably the most cringe worthy greeting when you board their flight. I remember cringing so much when I boarded my PR flight from LHR to MNL when they greeted passengers with the hand in heart gesture and the safety demonstration.


Given PAL’s reputation over the decades, saying that they’re a 4-star airline now is kinda necessary.


I have flown PAL in the late-90s to N.America when I was about 4 or 5 and as a family, we did it 2-3 times a year. I don't ever remember their service being that bad apart from their constant delays. I am in no way bashing PAL for being OTT with their 4 star rating.



Just because you or I had a few flights on PR and found the service to be OK doesn't really negate the fact that PR suffered from (and to an extent, still suffers from) a bad reputation, especially among frequent fliers and business/luxury travellers. In marketing, perception is everything, and whether you think a certain company's reputation is well-earned or not is irrelevant to how the public views a product.

J343 wrote:
NH- 10 abreast on most B77W, 16in width, 31 pitch. 9 abreast on their B788 with 31 pitch. JL has a more superior product.


The hard product is important, but service is a key component as well. I've heard of people complaining how cold and distant JL FA's are compared to NH FA's, especially on short regional hops. Also, 16 inches? Pretty sure that 10 abreast 77Ws have a 17 inch seat width.

Totally agree with OZ, though. KE is far more deserving of that 5th star.
 
J343
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:05 am

J343 wrote:
NH- 10 abreast on most B77W, 16in width, 31 pitch. 9 abreast on their B788 with 31 pitch. JL has a more superior product.


The hard product is important, but service is a key component as well. I've heard of people complaining how cold and distant JL FA's are compared to NH FA's, especially on short regional hops. Also, 16 inches? Pretty sure that 10 abreast 77Ws have a 17 inch seat width.

Totally agree with OZ, though. KE is far more deserving of that 5th star.[/quote]

Well yes, I agree. The hard product is important as is the service. Lufthansa got their 5 star rating when they've released details of their new business cabin for their B77X. Service on Lufthansa is not that great, cold, snappy flight attendants. BA has a good soft product despite the hatred of their current CW, I find it to be quite comfortable but their service is outstanding and their crews are very warm and friendly.

It's service had been declining in years. My grandparents are Asiana Club Diamond and have noticed the decline in service.
 
SkyHigher
Posts: 19
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:34 pm

Devilfish wrote:
Don't all the railway developments connecting to NAIA indicate that the airport would be there for a long while yet :?: .....

Image
https://media.philstar.com/photos/2019/ ... -32-20.jpg


One report even said that the subway would connect directly to NAIA T3...I wonder how they would accomplish that? :scratchchin:


The extension of subway to NAIA is optional, depending on the demand. And it will have 2 stations, Terminal 3 and Terminal 1 and 2 and goes all the way to PITX. Well, we don't know the detailed engineering and design plan for the 2 NAIA stations yet. This is the revised map of MM Subway project.
Image
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:11 am

Wait: I thought the A321neo was ordered partly because it was capable of flying Manila to Sydney and back non-stop? How come now it's becoming somewhat common for the return trip to make a fuel stop in Davao? Wasn't the neo supposed to stop that? I also wonder if this means PAL could consider the A321LR at some point: in all honesty, I'm surprised they haven't ordered it yet.
 
PR77W
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:15 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Wait: I thought the A321neo was ordered partly because it was capable of flying Manila to Sydney and back non-stop? How come now it's becoming somewhat common for the return trip to make a fuel stop in Davao? Wasn't the neo supposed to stop that? I also wonder if this means PAL could consider the A321LR at some point: in all honesty, I'm surprised they haven't ordered it yet.


I've been following the progress of flight PR211/213 on FR24 and did notice a times it dose stop at DVO while at other times it fly direct to SYD or the return leg PR212/214.

If PAL dose consider the A321LR or XLR maybe the should try to fit it in a premium heavy configuration with 1-1 J, 2-2 W and 3-3 Y. Although this will make very specialized to SYD or even MEL and AKL so not sure if it will be feasible for them? :scratchchin:
But PAL load factor is only 63.8% not sure if its exclusively MNL-SYD or also included BNE or MEL :o

Info on PAL load factor also CEB is in there:
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-a ... eed489a9b6
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 am

PR77W wrote:
If PAL dose consider the A321LR or XLR maybe the should try to fit it in a premium heavy configuration with 1-1 J, 2-2 W and 3-3 Y. Although this will make very specialized to SYD or even MEL and AKL so not sure if it will be feasible for them? :scratchchin:

I thought the A321neos that fly to Australia already have 2-2 business class?
 
Qantas16
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:04 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
PR77W wrote:
If PAL dose consider the A321LR or XLR maybe the should try to fit it in a premium heavy configuration with 1-1 J, 2-2 W and 3-3 Y. Although this will make very specialized to SYD or even MEL and AKL so not sure if it will be feasible for them? :scratchchin:

I thought the A321neos that fly to Australia already have 2-2 business class?


2-2 J and 3-3 Y... no W for the existing A321neos that fly into Australia. Lie-flat J though.
 
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TheDailyAloy
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:29 am

SleeplessInZh wrote:
Thats one ridiculous idea of pal.i knew it already before and i also talked about that in this forum
You may go to pals fb page,and inform them early,by sending them a message.


I haven't tried FB, but I was trying to low-key "fight" them when I called to arrange for our seats. I also contacted them via Twitter and it became a veritable mini-thread with other passengers or would-be passengers blasting them for the idea too.

I don't mind them taking a leaf out of SQ's book and charging a small fee for advanced selection of ALL seats for promotional Y fares, but for ALL aisle Y (regardless of fare) to be charged, even through online check-in? I sometimes question our renowned innovation as Filipinos.

Next thing I'd do, perhaps petition PR via Change.org or similar to remove that policy... #PeoplePower
Live your Truly Best Life.

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J343
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:36 pm

Qatar Airways is launching Davao with 1 weekly frequency. I'm surprised they haven't announced a restart of DOH-CEB first.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... s-seating/
 
EmoticonsAllDay
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:35 pm

J343 wrote:
Qatar Airways is launching Davao with 1 weekly frequency. I'm surprised they haven't announced a restart of DOH-CEB first.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... s-seating/


Dreamliner service just like in CRK?
 
J343
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:01 pm

EmoticonsAllDay wrote:
J343 wrote:
Qatar Airways is launching Davao with 1 weekly frequency. I'm surprised they haven't announced a restart of DOH-CEB first.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... s-seating/


Dreamliner service just like in CRK?


I would assume so. A B77W or A350 will be too big. Perhaps an A330
 
Philippine747
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:50 pm

J343 wrote:
Qatar Airways is launching Davao with 1 weekly frequency. I'm surprised they haven't announced a restart of DOH-CEB first.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... s-seating/


The 787 would be perfect for CEB, compared to the A330-200s they used to send. Then again, they can send larger aircraft like the 77W should there be enough demand once the route matures.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

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SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:29 pm

TheDailyAloy wrote:
SleeplessInZh wrote:
Thats one ridiculous idea of pal.i knew it already before and i also talked about that in this forum
You may go to pals fb page,and inform them early,by sending them a message.


I haven't tried FB, but I was trying to low-key "fight" them when I called to arrange for our seats. I also contacted them via Twitter and it became a veritable mini-thread with other passengers or would-be passengers blasting them for the idea too.

I don't mind them taking a leaf out of SQ's book and charging a small fee for advanced selection of ALL seats for promotional Y fares, but for ALL aisle Y (regardless of fare) to be charged, even through online check-in? I sometimes question our renowned innovation as Filipinos.

Next thing I'd do, perhaps petition PR via Change.org or similar to remove that policy... #PeoplePower


Some people do bash pal in fb page about this and that,and regarding to other things.its better to act classy and geniune,and send them your private message.they will help you, without all the fuss.better conversate directly to them.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:53 pm

SkyHigher wrote:
The extension of subway to NAIA is optional, depending on the demand. And it will have 2 stations, Terminal 3 and Terminal 1 and 2 and goes all the way to PITX. Well, we don't know the detailed engineering and design plan for the 2 NAIA stations yet. This is the revised map of MM Subway project.

Aah...so, based on that map, I guess the "future" NAIA subway station(s) might be built at the present roundabout near T3, tunnel below the maintenance hangars (for demolition?) area, across Rwy 13/31, Nayong Pilipino, and onwards to T1 & T2.....

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1092481/6 ... USgFJXed.1

Image
https://3c9bl93o71m619w9kn2rfwinkdh-wpe ... l-Map1.png

I hope they'd make provisions in case a new terminal is approved at the Nayong Pilipino site. :thumbsup:


filipinoavgeek wrote:
Wait: I thought the A321neo was ordered partly because it was capable of flying Manila to Sydney and back non-stop? How come now it's becoming somewhat common for the return trip to make a fuel stop in Davao? Wasn't the neo supposed to stop that? I also wonder if this means PAL could consider the A321LR at some point: in all honesty, I'm surprised they haven't ordered it yet.

Maybe PR was having an unusual uptake of 'balikbayan' boxes -- the cooler months being the most popular for VFR? :boxedin: The -LR would only be slightly better for them vs the A321N with two ACTs. I think PR should wait until the 'full' capability of the XLR is realized, which 'might' allow it to also be used unrestricted on MNL-AKL nonstop.....

https://leehamnews.com/2019/02/25/airbu ... h-a321xlr/


At first blush, I thought PAL was starting its own urban taxi business..... :bigthumbsup: .....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-456346/

Image
https://www.flightglobal.com/assets/get ... emid=76442



In other news...Metrojet is reported to be launching a $25M aviation facility at CRK.....

https://www.philstar.com/business/2019/ ... lity-clark


I hope to see this there in the near future..... :crossfingers: .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktuYryB5OME


But with a $75M list price...there would be a limited number of those flying around :!: :cloudnine:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:55 pm

Honestly I don't really understand why some people think PAL will order the A330neo, the A330-800 in particular. They already have the A350 and it's doing wonders for them. Also, the main reason I'm very skeptical about the A330-800 is because it simply hasn't caught on (AFAIK the only airline that currently has any orders for it is Kuwait Airways), and I don't think PAL would want to be associated with a near-orphan aircraft type. There could be financial stuff being associated with having a plane which barely anyone else operates (remember that this was a factor for Hawaiian cancelling their A330-800 order). As for the A330neo in the Philippines, I think it could be a better option for Cebu Pacific, but IIRC the A330neo can barely fly into North America non-stop so it wouldn't be adequate for such missions anyway. Plus, 5J's long-haul operations have struggled other than Dubai and Australia, and even now their A330s are used more for regional routes than anything. So even 5J getting the A330neo seems to be a long shot at least in the short term.

As for the A330-800, I think it being ordered by PAL is a non-starter for the reasons I mentioned above. I think it would be more likely for then to order 787s than the A330-800, and considering I doubt they'd be ordering 787s anytime soon given their A350s, that means a lot. Remember that the original competition was between the 787 and the A350, and as far as I know, the A330neo wasn't considered by them at the time.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:40 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Honestly I don't really understand why some people think PAL will order the A330neo, the A330-800 in particular. They already have the A350 and it's doing wonders for them.

Why not? If Airbus could maintain the difference between the A338 and A350's list and selling prices, that's ~50 million reasons why PAL could opt for the A338 right there. Multiply that with the number of frames they might order (say six as a conversion from their A350 options) and that amounts to a considerable CAPEX saving for a financially constrained airline. I doubt PR would say no in case Airbus made them a very tempting offer.


filipinoavgeek wrote:
Also, the main reason I'm very skeptical about the A330-800 is because it simply hasn't caught on (AFAIK the only airline that currently has any orders for it is Kuwait Airways), and I don't think PAL would want to be associated with a near-orphan aircraft type. There could be financial stuff being associated with having a plane which barely anyone else operates (remember that this was a factor for Hawaiian cancelling their A330-800 order).

It hasn't caught on because the variant has not even been certified yet and does not fit most other airlines' mission requirements. I'd aver that it'd be a suitable plane to open PAL's planned network expansion to SEA for example, and other points in continental Europe like MPX, ORY, or FRA where the capacity of the A350 is not essential...while still being fine for covering shorter sectors like AKL if the XLR above couldn't cut it...as well as to other secondary city pairs. And unless the RR T7000 is a lemon (A339 orders suggest it is not) the slight efficiency advantage of its competitor can be offset (barring skyrocketing fuel costs) in other ways by commonality, lean parts inventory, same pilot pool, and again a cheaper subfleet type. As to financing, I guess Airbus would be willing to help arrange a package in order to add to the type's order book.


filipinoavgeek wrote:
As for the A330-800, I think it being ordered by PAL is a non-starter for the reasons I mentioned above. I think it would be more likely for then to order 787s than the A330-800, and considering I doubt they'd be ordering 787s anytime soon given their A350s, that means a lot. Remember that the original competition was between the 787 and the A350, and as far as I know, the A330neo wasn't considered by them at the time.

I think it would only be a non-starter if it's not price-competitive with the 789 and if Airbus abandoned its certification and production altogether. IIRC, the A330neo was not yet on offer when the tender was originally started.


filipinoavgeek wrote:
As for the A330neo in the Philippines, I think it could be a better option for Cebu Pacific, but IIRC the A330neo can barely fly into North America non-stop so it wouldn't be adequate for such missions anyway. Plus, 5J's long-haul operations have struggled other than Dubai and Australia, and even now their A330s are used more for regional routes than anything. So even 5J getting the A330neo seems to be a long shot at least in the short term.

Note that 5J had shelved even its HNL plan for the time being...and with their dense LCC configuration, the A339N doesn't stand a chance of making it to NA nonstop.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
LurveBus
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:21 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:31 pm

Devilfish wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
Honestly I don't really understand why some people think PAL will order the A330neo, the A330-800 in particular. They already have the A350 and it's doing wonders for them.

Why not? If Airbus could maintain the difference between the A338 and A350's list and selling prices, that's ~50 million reasons why PAL could opt for the A338 right there. Multiply that with the number of frames they might order (say six as a conversion from their A350 options) and that amounts to a considerable CAPEX saving for a financially constrained airline. I doubt PR would say no in case Airbus made them a very tempting offer.


filipinoavgeek wrote:
Also, the main reason I'm very skeptical about the A330-800 is because it simply hasn't caught on (AFAIK the only airline that currently has any orders for it is Kuwait Airways), and I don't think PAL would want to be associated with a near-orphan aircraft type. There could be financial stuff being associated with having a plane which barely anyone else operates (remember that this was a factor for Hawaiian cancelling their A330-800 order).

It hasn't caught on because the variant has not even been certified yet and does not fit most other airlines' mission requirements. I'd aver that it'd be a suitable plane to open PAL's planned network expansion to SEA for example, and other points in continental Europe like MPX, ORY, or FRA where the capacity of the A350 is not essential...while still being fine for covering shorter sectors like AKL if the XLR above couldn't cut it...as well as to other secondary city pairs. And unless the RR T7000 is a lemon (A339 orders suggest it is not) the slight efficiency advantage of its competitor can be offset (barring skyrocketing fuel costs) in other ways by commonality, lean parts inventory, same pilot pool, and again a cheaper subfleet type. As to financing, I guess Airbus would be willing to help arrange a package in order to add to the type's order book.


filipinoavgeek wrote:
As for the A330-800, I think it being ordered by PAL is a non-starter for the reasons I mentioned above. I think it would be more likely for then to order 787s than the A330-800, and considering I doubt they'd be ordering 787s anytime soon given their A350s, that means a lot. Remember that the original competition was between the 787 and the A350, and as far as I know, the A330neo wasn't considered by them at the time.

I think it would only be a non-starter if it's not price-competitive with the 789 and if Airbus abandoned its certification and production altogether. IIRC, the A330neo was not yet on offer when the tender was originally started.


filipinoavgeek wrote:
As for the A330neo in the Philippines, I think it could be a better option for Cebu Pacific, but IIRC the A330neo can barely fly into North America non-stop so it wouldn't be adequate for such missions anyway. Plus, 5J's long-haul operations have struggled other than Dubai and Australia, and even now their A330s are used more for regional routes than anything. So even 5J getting the A330neo seems to be a long shot at least in the short term.

Note that 5J had shelved even its HNL plan for the time being...and with their dense LCC configuration, the A339N doesn't stand a chance of making it to NA nonstop.



You’re forgetting something. The 251t A330-900 can make it to Europe and the upper west coast, especially if it’s given a config similar to the old A340-300s (270-ish seats). If they use the exact same 309 passenger confit as the refurbished A330s, it can do HNL without payload restrictions and with a few seats blocked, can fly as far as FCO or FRA. The A339 would become the more flexible frame that’s also more efficient on short and medium haul.

Remember, Airbus once made an aircraft with the capacity and range of the A338. It was called the A340-200. PAL ordered it before, and it was the plane that first flew MNL-LON nonstop. But the A343 could do most of what it could do, with a minimal difference in trip costs. So when the time came to Marie Kondo the fleet come the Asian Financial Crisis of the 90s, the A342s were the first to go. The A343s stayed.
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:18 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:58 pm

I was referring to North American routes, and the A330-800 in particular, since PAL seems to want to focus more on North America than Europe (and the A330neo can't fly MNL-North America nonstop reliably, in either version). Yes I mentioned the A330neo family as a whole, but the A330-900 might have a slightly better chance (though probably not the same as them ordering the 787, so probably both are long shots at best in the short-to-medium term). The A330-900 might have a chance for PAL if it catches on if the Emirates order saves it and thus becomes interesting for others as well, but otherwise, it looks unlikely. Especially since as far as I know it had already been announced when PAL was still in the consideration stage and yet they didn't seem to publicly consider it (remember that the order was around 2016, the A330neo was announced in 2014 or so). Also, recently, I don't think PAL has been that kind of airline, ordering stuff that isn't popular (perhaps back in the pre-LT days when they had the One-Elevens, but that was a different time).

So perhaps the A330-900 has a slight chance, but I think it's really the A330-800 that seems dead-on-arrival.
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 6346
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:52 am

LurveBus wrote:
You’re forgetting something. The 251t A330-900 can make it to Europe and the upper west coast, especially if it’s given a config similar to the old A340-300s (270-ish seats). If they use the exact same 309 passenger confit as the refurbished A330s, it can do HNL without payload restrictions and with a few seats blocked, can fly as far as FCO or FRA. The A339 would become the more flexible frame that’s also more efficient on short and medium haul.

Barely...and that's exactly my point. Why choose a bigger aircraft and pay more for fuel, higher amortization, overflight, landing and handling fees -- only to handicap it by reducing the seat number for it to meet range -- when they have youngish, perfectly serviceable A330s to handle medium haul missions? If you really need more capacity and longer range, then there's the A359 which might be available at an attractive price, due to the spate of cancellations at Airbus.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rs-456439/



filipinoavgeek wrote:
I was referring to North American routes, and the A330-800 in particular, since PAL seems to want to focus more on North America than Europe (and the A330neo can't fly MNL-North America nonstop reliably, in either version).

While I consider the A359 a better choice for PR to North America in general, I'd go out on a limb here and say the A338 is a good compromise for resuming their CEB-LAX service (even just seasonal) since they seemed to struggle filling the old A340 on that route the first time around.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
J343
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:20 am

QR's DVO routing is as follows:
DOH-CRK-DVO-DOH

QR936 DOH0245 – 1725CRK1855 – 2050DVO2220 – 0315+1DOH 788 5

Very similar to EK's DXB-CEB-CRK-DXB triangular route.
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:18 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:39 am

Devilfish wrote:
While I consider the A359 a better choice for PR to North America in general, I'd go out on a limb here and say the A338 is a good compromise for resuming their CEB-LAX service (even just seasonal) since they seemed to struggle filling the old A340 on that route the first time around.


Like I mentioned before, PAL ordering the A330-800 is a very long shot. I understand that you seem to be partial to the model considering you've brought it up quite a lot here, but I simply can't see it happening. Especially with the model's unpopularity. Had the A330-800 been a more popular model, then perhaps it would have made more sense. Airlines ordering certain planes have more to do with their needs and what their planners say, and not by the desires and wishes of fans. Like personally I wished that PAL got the 787 instead of the A350 but I can see why they ordered it and I respect their decision, and in hindsight, it was probably the best option for them given the circumstances.
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 6346
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:40 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I understand that you seem to be partial to the model considering you've brought it up quite a lot here, but I simply can't see it happening. Especially with the model's unpopularity. Had the A330-800 been a more popular model, then perhaps it would have made more sense. Airlines ordering certain planes have more to do with their needs and what their planners say, and not by the desires and wishes of fans.

Indeed...just like it has less to do with the variant's unpopularity or someone's inability to see it happening. What matters most is if it would be well-suited and beneficial to the operator, and earn handsome profits for them. BTW, I too hoped PAL would order 789s...but it was not to be.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
LurveBus
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:21 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:12 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I was referring to North American routes, and the A330-800 in particular, since PAL seems to want to focus more on North America than Europe (and the A330neo can't fly MNL-North America nonstop reliably, in either version). Yes I mentioned the A330neo family as a whole, but the A330-900 might have a slightly better chance (though probably not the same as them ordering the 787, so probably both are long shots at best in the short-to-medium term). The A330-900 might have a chance for PAL if it catches on if the Emirates order saves it and thus becomes interesting for others as well, but otherwise, it looks unlikely. Especially since as far as I know it had already been announced when PAL was still in the consideration stage and yet they didn't seem to publicly consider it (remember that the order was around 2016, the A330neo was announced in 2014 or so). Also, recently, I don't think PAL has been that kind of airline, ordering stuff that isn't popular (perhaps back in the pre-LT days when they had the One-Elevens, but that was a different time).

So perhaps the A330-900 has a slight chance, but I think it's really the A330-800 that seems dead-on-arrival.


The A330-900 actually has a bigger chance of being ordered in small quantities as a top-up order. The A333s still have at least a decade of life in them, and in 3-4 years, it’ll be cheaper to add A339s to the fleet than to get a 787 if growth numbers continue.

If we go through a crisis and the current A330 fleet becomes enough to last through the next decade, then the front runner replacement will be the 787-10. Or whatever Airbus replaces the NEO with.
 
LurveBus
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:21 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:21 am

Devilfish wrote:
LurveBus wrote:
You’re forgetting something. The 251t A330-900 can make it to Europe and the upper west coast, especially if it’s given a config similar to the old A340-300s (270-ish seats). If they use the exact same 309 passenger confit as the refurbished A330s, it can do HNL without payload restrictions and with a few seats blocked, can fly as far as FCO or FRA. The A339 would become the more flexible frame that’s also more efficient on short and medium haul.

Barely...and that's exactly my point. Why choose a bigger aircraft and pay more for fuel, higher amortization, overflight, landing and handling fees -- only to handicap it by reducing the seat number for it to meet range -- when they have youngish, perfectly serviceable A330s to handle medium haul missions? If you really need more capacity and longer range, then there's the A359 which might be available at an attractive price, due to the spate of cancellations at Airbus.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rs-456439/



filipinoavgeek wrote:
I was referring to North American routes, and the A330-800 in particular, since PAL seems to want to focus more on North America than Europe (and the A330neo can't fly MNL-North America nonstop reliably, in either version).

While I consider the A359 a better choice for PR to North America in general, I'd go out on a limb here and say the A338 is a good compromise for resuming their CEB-LAX service (even just seasonal) since they seemed to struggle filling the old A340 on that route the first time around.


At the end of the day, MNL is slot-restricted and the trend is to upgauge to bigger planes. That’s why the A35K has a better shot of being ordered than an A338. And that’s also why an A339 is also more attractive. Why would PAL start long thin routes that they don’t expect to grow, especially if they’re banking on economy passengers? Wouldn’t there be a better use of MNL slots?

CEB is a good option, of course, but the only viable longhaul route for them is CEB-LAX; why would they buy a plane for one niche route?

The A338 can definitely make these niche routes work. But with the same amount of resources, PAL can attend to other priorities.
 
Philippine747
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:54 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:37 pm

According to Airlineroute, PAL has closed reservation for Manila to Delhi service and removed it from the March 8 revision of the Winter Timetable. Route was to be operated 4x weekly using A21N.

In other news, EVA will be using the A330 to Cebu from May 1st until October 26, instead of the A321.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:18 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:48 pm

Philippine747 wrote:
According to Airlineroute, PAL has closed reservation for Manila to Delhi service and removed it from the March 8 revision of the Winter Timetable. Route was to be operated 4x weekly using A21N.


That sounds kind of surprising considering they'd long been planning to resume India service and that was even part of the reason why they ordered A321neos. Well I guess it isn't too surprising given that they already delayed the launch once before. I guess either they want to focus on Mumbai for now or ANA/whoever is telling them to slow down on the expansion for now.
 
EmoticonsAllDay
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:02 pm

Singapore-bound Cebu Pacific flight diverted to Brunei after 'technical problem' found

Flight 5J 803 was diverted to Bandar Seri Begawan at 1:45 a.m. on Friday, Cebu Pacific said in an advisory.

Another aircraft has been dispatched from Manila to take affected passengers to Singapore, the carrier said.

Meanwhile, the Singapore-Manila return flight, 5J 804, will be delayed.


Source: https://news.abs-cbn.com/business/03/08/19/singapore-bound-cebu-pacific-flight-diverted-to-brunei-after-technical-problem-found

Prompt action by 5J. Does anyone know about the nature of the problem and the type of aircraft involved?
 
Philippine747
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:54 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:34 pm

EmoticonsAllDay wrote:
Singapore-bound Cebu Pacific flight diverted to Brunei after 'technical problem' found

Flight 5J 803 was diverted to Bandar Seri Begawan at 1:45 a.m. on Friday, Cebu Pacific said in an advisory.

Another aircraft has been dispatched from Manila to take affected passengers to Singapore, the carrier said.

Meanwhile, the Singapore-Manila return flight, 5J 804, will be delayed.


Source: https://news.abs-cbn.com/business/03/08/19/singapore-bound-cebu-pacific-flight-diverted-to-brunei-after-technical-problem-found

Prompt action by 5J. Does anyone know about the nature of the problem and the type of aircraft involved?


It was an A333. Reason still unknown

filipinoavgeek wrote:
That sounds kind of surprising considering they'd long been planning to resume India service and that was even part of the reason why they ordered A321neos. Well I guess it isn't too surprising given that they already delayed the launch once before. I guess either they want to focus on Mumbai for now or ANA/whoever is telling them to slow down on the expansion for now.


Maybe they're still uneasy after the Pak-India border clashes. Speaking of routes yet to be opened by the NEO, when will they start MLE?
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE
 
EmoticonsAllDay
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:34 pm

Philippine747 wrote:
According to Airlineroute, PAL has closed reservation for Manila to Delhi service.


Maybe they are planing to codeshare the route with NH? With NH starting to commence flights to more Indian cities (DEL and BOM already being flown, MAA starting Oct 27, 2019 and BLR in the plans), it seems plausible to codeshare the routes so that PR can reach more Indian cities. It also makes the A21Ns free and can be put to use in other sectors.
 
carlokiii
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:55 pm

Philippine747 wrote:
EmoticonsAllDay wrote:
Singapore-bound Cebu Pacific flight diverted to Brunei after 'technical problem' found

Flight 5J 803 was diverted to Bandar Seri Begawan at 1:45 a.m. on Friday, Cebu Pacific said in an advisory.

Another aircraft has been dispatched from Manila to take affected passengers to Singapore, the carrier said.

Meanwhile, the Singapore-Manila return flight, 5J 804, will be delayed.


Source: https://news.abs-cbn.com/business/03/08/19/singapore-bound-cebu-pacific-flight-diverted-to-brunei-after-technical-problem-found

Prompt action by 5J. Does anyone know about the nature of the problem and the type of aircraft involved?


It was an A333. Reason still unknown


The technical problem was probably not a big issue relatively as the the subject aircraft RP-C3344 had just landed back in MNL after flying on a very typical flight profile. It was on the ground in BWN for just a total of 20 hours, unlike the weeks one of 5J’s A330 spent in India before.
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 6346
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:14 pm

LurveBus wrote:
At the end of the day, MNL is slot-restricted and the trend is to upgauge to bigger planes. That’s why the A35K has a better shot of being ordered than an A338. And that’s also why an A339 is also more attractive.

I think airlines have come to realize that bigger is not always better and that sometimes they have to buck the trend. T2 at CRK coming on line would alleviate the situation at NAIA, maybe just in time for a PAL order of an affordable, right-sized, ample-ranged aircraft for various routes.


LurveBus wrote:
Why would PAL start long thin routes that they don’t expect to grow, especially if they’re banking on economy passengers? Wouldn’t there be a better use of MNL slots?

PR had stated often enough in the recent past that those were the long-haul routes they were planning to launch into (I doubt they would mention those just out of the blue). What other long sectors with better growth opportunities do you see for PAL? In the near future, I expect less-premium oriented flights being "incentivized" to use CRK instead.


LurveBus wrote:
CEB is a good option, of course, but the only viable longhaul route for them is CEB-LAX; why would they buy a plane for one niche route?

The A338 can definitely make these niche routes work. But with the same amount of resources, PAL can attend to other priorities.

As cited above, there are also the EU routes, SEA, and the other US cities PR hints at which may be unsustainable on their own, but could work as a tag-on to YVR for instance, with a less risky (read cheaper) plane like the A338. What other priorities are those again?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
J343
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:07 pm

Why does PAL have to focus on ordering more aircraft types? Instead, why cant they wait for all routes to mature i.e LHR-MNL before going into full expansion mode. Just look at EY, they have been very aggressive with expansion and ordering new aircraft types but look at them now.

I work with a lot of Filipinos and they all have shifted to PAL from more established carriers such as CX, SQ, EK.

What PAL needs to do first is focus on routes where they make money and to capture a sizeable market share for routes like LHR, SYD etc. After then, they can start looking at newer planes and new routes. I am sure Chicago, San Diego will be sustainable.
 
LurveBus
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:21 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:49 pm

J343 wrote:
Why does PAL have to focus on ordering more aircraft types? Instead, why cant they wait for all routes to mature i.e LHR-MNL before going into full expansion mode. Just look at EY, they have been very aggressive with expansion and ordering new aircraft types but look at them now.

I work with a lot of Filipinos and they all have shifted to PAL from more established carriers such as CX, SQ, EK.

What PAL needs to do first is focus on routes where they make money and to capture a sizeable market share for routes like LHR, SYD etc. After then, they can start looking at newer planes and new routes. I am sure Chicago, San Diego will be sustainable.


Exactly. PAL has started so many new routes over the past few years, and they’re still not profitable. They need to put on the brakes. They still have 15 A321 NEOs coming in and one more A350. That’s not a small amount of capacity. If anything, the only further orders we can predict for this year is the firming up of the A350 options. Other than that, they have to focus on streamlining their product and improving their market share on existing routes.
 
SleeplessInZh
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:19 pm

What they wont fly to delhi?what is that? Got me shook
 
Aremaga
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:03 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:32 pm

LurveBus wrote:
J343 wrote:
They still have 15 A321 NEOs coming in and one more A350. That’s not a small amount of capacity. If anything, the only further orders we can predict for this year is the firming up of the A350 options. Other than that, they have to focus on streamlining their product and improving their market share on existing routes.


This article says the 15 A321 Neos are intended to replace the old planes. Or maybe some to replace old A320s and some to add more to the fleet. I do not know if they intend to replace the A321 Ceo but it would be good if they do. And i think these 15 NEOs will have more seats than the first 6. I do not know if they will install IFEs though i think they will, considering they are aiming for the 5th star.

http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=Corporate&title=pal-defers-delivery-of-a321neo-planes&id=146832


For PAL, the A321 NEO units were supposed to replace old ones flying regional and domestic routes.


“There are airplanes sana that we will return or dispose kasi mga luma na, then we will replace with the new ones so i-extend lang namin... [there are] two or three A320s that we will either sell or return to the lessor,” Mr. Bautista said.

The new planes could also be used to service new routes, although current congestion at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport is hampering such plans.

“Marami sana tayong pwede liparan but we are affected by unavailability of slots in Manila, masyado ng congested yung airport natin so yung available is mostly evening flights. So what we can do, if there are new slots, new destinations which are good or profitable, then will stop flying to the less profitable areas,” the PAL chief added.
 
SleeplessInZh
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:56 pm

Because that government can't decide to build a new airport.to give it away to ramon ang,they'll loose money too.its all about money.so its better for the government to stay congested.
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