Someone83
Posts: 4097
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:39 pm

BA777FO wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
1hr45min turn?! They should be able to do this in 75mins Max.


If you exclude the time to disembark and reboard ~300 passengers that'd leave you with about 20 minutes to clean and recater the aircraft. Local Israeli procedures do not allow refuelling with passengers onboard either so you'd struggle to refuel in that 15/20 minutes anyway. 1h45 sounds like a typical longhaul turnaround time. This isn't a cheap and cheerful low frills flight.


And now you ruined the discussion with facts :D :thumbsup:
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Where did VS get these slots - meaning what flight was cancelled for this?
 
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yochai
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:40 pm

BA777FO wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
1hr45min turn?! They should be able to do this in 75mins Max.


If you exclude the time to disembark and reboard ~300 passengers that'd leave you with about 20 minutes to clean and recater the aircraft. Local Israeli procedures do not allow refuelling with passengers onboard either so you'd struggle to refuel in that 15/20 minutes anyway. 1h45 sounds like a typical longhaul turnaround time. This isn't a cheap and cheerful low frills flight.


That is incorrect, you can refuel with pax on board at TLV as long as you have a fire truck on standby. We (El Al) often have the jetbridge removed while the fuel truck disconnects from the aircraft on our long haul flights
 
smi0006
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:09 pm

BA777FO wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
1hr45min turn?! They should be able to do this in 75mins Max.


If you exclude the time to disembark and reboard ~300 passengers that'd leave you with about 20 minutes to clean and recater the aircraft. Local Israeli procedures do not allow refuelling with passengers onboard either so you'd struggle to refuel in that 15/20 minutes anyway. 1h45 sounds like a typical longhaul turnaround time. This isn't a cheap and cheerful low frills flight.


At the carrier I work for we turn 789/772 and 77W I’m 75mins for a 4hr sector- 3class. It can be done for midhaul, and saves time to support crew duty limits.

The refueling thing is new to me, so that could throw a spanner in the works however.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:37 pm

yochai wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
1hr45min turn?! They should be able to do this in 75mins Max.


If you exclude the time to disembark and reboard ~300 passengers that'd leave you with about 20 minutes to clean and recater the aircraft. Local Israeli procedures do not allow refuelling with passengers onboard either so you'd struggle to refuel in that 15/20 minutes anyway. 1h45 sounds like a typical longhaul turnaround time. This isn't a cheap and cheerful low frills flight.


That is incorrect, you can refuel with pax on board at TLV as long as you have a fire truck on standby. We (El Al) often have the jetbridge removed while the fuel truck disconnects from the aircraft on our long haul flights


How many fire trucks are on standby for aircraft refuelling versus how many aircraft require refuelling? You may get special treatment on occassions as the home-based airline but as a foreign carrier we are told no refuelling with passengers onboard.

You mention that you have the jetbridge removed while the fuel truck disconnects - how many passengers can you board with the jetbridge removed? ;)

smi0006 wrote:
At the carrier I work for we turn 789/772 and 77W I’m 75mins for a 4hr sector- 3class. It can be done for midhaul, and saves time to support crew duty limits.


We turn our 777s around in 1 hour/70 minutes on our Caribbean shuttles, but we don't do a full recatering and have some passengers that continue through without the need to disembark. To properly clean/re-cater and redress the cabin for a longhaul service it takes much longer. Despite being ~5 hours LHR-TLV receives the full long haul product, not a domestic/short haul service. We do LHR-DME as a day trip as a full long haul service and that's right on the FDP limits.

As the Virgin flights are geared towards connections it's all a moot point anyway - the aircraft sits on the ground at TLV for 11 hours in summer and 8 hours in winter.
 
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yochai
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:44 pm

BA777FO wrote:
yochai wrote:
BA777FO wrote:

If you exclude the time to disembark and reboard ~300 passengers that'd leave you with about 20 minutes to clean and recater the aircraft. Local Israeli procedures do not allow refuelling with passengers onboard either so you'd struggle to refuel in that 15/20 minutes anyway. 1h45 sounds like a typical longhaul turnaround time. This isn't a cheap and cheerful low frills flight.


That is incorrect, you can refuel with pax on board at TLV as long as you have a fire truck on standby. We (El Al) often have the jetbridge removed while the fuel truck disconnects from the aircraft on our long haul flights


How many fire trucks are on standby for aircraft refuelling versus how many aircraft require refuelling? You may get special treatment on occassions as the home-based airline but as a foreign carrier we are told no refuelling with passengers onboard.

You mention that you have the jetbridge removed while the fuel truck disconnects - how many passengers can you board with the jetbridge removed? ;)

smi0006 wrote:
At the carrier I work for we turn 789/772 and 77W I’m 75mins for a 4hr sector- 3class. It can be done for midhaul, and saves time to support crew duty limits.


We turn our 777s around in 1 hour/70 minutes on our Caribbean shuttles, but we don't do a full recatering and have some passengers that continue through without the need to disembark. To properly clean/re-cater and redress the cabin for a longhaul service it takes much longer. Despite being ~5 hours LHR-TLV receives the full long haul product, not a domestic/short haul service. We do LHR-DME as a day trip as a full long haul service and that's right on the FDP limits.

As the Virgin flights are geared towards connections it's all a moot point anyway - the aircraft sits on the ground at TLV for 11 hours in summer and 8 hours in winter.


Well, we usually finish boarding before the fuel truck disconnects ;) Refueling with pax on board is also done by many foreign airlines in TLV, Easyjet,Ryanair and Wizz for example who have 45 minute turnarounds always have that, same with Transavia, SN (Dayflight) and plenty of other airlines (usually those that depart very close to the night curfew). I guess it is company policy at BA to save money.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:45 am

yochai wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
yochai wrote:

That is incorrect, you can refuel with pax on board at TLV as long as you have a fire truck on standby. We (El Al) often have the jetbridge removed while the fuel truck disconnects from the aircraft on our long haul flights


How many fire trucks are on standby for aircraft refuelling versus how many aircraft require refuelling? You may get special treatment on occassions as the home-based airline but as a foreign carrier we are told no refuelling with passengers onboard.

You mention that you have the jetbridge removed while the fuel truck disconnects - how many passengers can you board with the jetbridge removed? ;)

smi0006 wrote:
At the carrier I work for we turn 789/772 and 77W I’m 75mins for a 4hr sector- 3class. It can be done for midhaul, and saves time to support crew duty limits.


We turn our 777s around in 1 hour/70 minutes on our Caribbean shuttles, but we don't do a full recatering and have some passengers that continue through without the need to disembark. To properly clean/re-cater and redress the cabin for a longhaul service it takes much longer. Despite being ~5 hours LHR-TLV receives the full long haul product, not a domestic/short haul service. We do LHR-DME as a day trip as a full long haul service and that's right on the FDP limits.

As the Virgin flights are geared towards connections it's all a moot point anyway - the aircraft sits on the ground at TLV for 11 hours in summer and 8 hours in winter.


Well, we usually finish boarding before the fuel truck disconnects ;) Refueling with pax on board is also done by many foreign airlines in TLV, Easyjet,Ryanair and Wizz for example who have 45 minute turnarounds always have that, same with Transavia, SN (Dayflight) and plenty of other airlines (usually those that depart very close to the night curfew). I guess it is company policy at BA to save money.


It doesn't have anything to do with money, I doubt refuelling with the fire trucks costs much if anything. It must be all those firefighters spend their day doing!

Nightstopping a crew costs far more - but the revenue upside from better timings makes it worth it. There was no need for a cheap shot like that at all.
 
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yochai
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:24 am

BA777FO wrote:
yochai wrote:
BA777FO wrote:

How many fire trucks are on standby for aircraft refuelling versus how many aircraft require refuelling? You may get special treatment on occassions as the home-based airline but as a foreign carrier we are told no refuelling with passengers onboard.

You mention that you have the jetbridge removed while the fuel truck disconnects - how many passengers can you board with the jetbridge removed? ;)



We turn our 777s around in 1 hour/70 minutes on our Caribbean shuttles, but we don't do a full recatering and have some passengers that continue through without the need to disembark. To properly clean/re-cater and redress the cabin for a longhaul service it takes much longer. Despite being ~5 hours LHR-TLV receives the full long haul product, not a domestic/short haul service. We do LHR-DME as a day trip as a full long haul service and that's right on the FDP limits.

As the Virgin flights are geared towards connections it's all a moot point anyway - the aircraft sits on the ground at TLV for 11 hours in summer and 8 hours in winter.


Well, we usually finish boarding before the fuel truck disconnects ;) Refueling with pax on board is also done by many foreign airlines in TLV, Easyjet,Ryanair and Wizz for example who have 45 minute turnarounds always have that, same with Transavia, SN (Dayflight) and plenty of other airlines (usually those that depart very close to the night curfew). I guess it is company policy at BA to save money.


It doesn't have anything to do with money, I doubt refuelling with the fire trucks costs much if anything. It must be all those firefighters spend their day doing!

Nightstopping a crew costs far more - but the revenue upside from better timings makes it worth it. There was no need for a cheap shot like that at all.


I am actually talking about the afternoon flight which has a long 2 hour turn around, not the night flight.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:56 pm

yochai wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
yochai wrote:

Well, we usually finish boarding before the fuel truck disconnects ;) Refueling with pax on board is also done by many foreign airlines in TLV, Easyjet,Ryanair and Wizz for example who have 45 minute turnarounds always have that, same with Transavia, SN (Dayflight) and plenty of other airlines (usually those that depart very close to the night curfew). I guess it is company policy at BA to save money.


It doesn't have anything to do with money, I doubt refuelling with the fire trucks costs much if anything. It must be all those firefighters spend their day doing!

Nightstopping a crew costs far more - but the revenue upside from better timings makes it worth it. There was no need for a cheap shot like that at all.


I am actually talking about the afternoon flight which has a long 2 hour turn around, not the night flight.


2 hours is just about a standard turn time for a 4-class 777 anywhere on our network. We're not just turning around a no-frills A320 with minimal cabin dressing or minimal catering. Especially from a congested Heathrow, the risk to the operation of trying to crew this as a day trip isn't worth it.
 
sixfootscream
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:56 pm

 
Cunard
Posts: 2306
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: VS LHR-TLV

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:03 am

sixfootscream wrote:


It was made official by Virgin Atlantic at least two weeks ago, routesonline are just behind in publishing it on their website.

I read routesonline every day and even though they are very good in publishing regular updates on a daily basis I have noticed a few lately that have been public knowledge for at least a few days.

The VS LHR-TLV being one of them!
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